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Kiwi 1917 Sopwith Camel Project
New Zealand
Приєднався 10 лис 2023
From timber to flight, building a new Sopwith Camel from scratch.
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep25
First aircraft ribs glued. Weirdly I picked one with a 5 degree angle to learn on.
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Відео
Making a steam bender for aircraft parts
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Doing steam bending with a wooden form and a wallpaper steamer.
Milling Sitka Spruce for aircraft - Ep3
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Breaking down Sitka Spruce for aircraft timber destined for a for a 1917 Sopwith Camel. The timber starts at 100 x 150 x 4500mm (6" x 4" x 15') and has 64%of the timber removed, leaving a few useful sticks for production timber. A reasonable guess would be 2/3 of the production timber will also go to waste, meaning perhaps a 10% recovery rate from this beam (ie. 90% is destined to be firewood a...
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep21
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Need more cap strips to make more ribs :-)
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep20
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Problem found, rib assembly back on track.
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep19
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Rib assembly started. I think...
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep18
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Nearly all the rib webs made. This video might be an argument for laser cutting, but no regrets here!
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep17
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Getting into bulk production mode... A lot of work shown in under 5 minutes!
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep16
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Getting into bulk production mode...
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep15
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Production wing ribs, 5 main wing ribs completed and looking good
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep14
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Moving away from glueing ribs on a jig...
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep13
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Slow week, just a quick chat. Making sandbags isn't particularly interesting!
Breaking Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep12
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Breaking Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep12
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep11
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Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep11
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep10
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Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep10
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep9
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Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep9
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep8
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Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep8
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep7
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Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep7
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep6
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Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep6
Making a sharpening station for plane blades
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Making a sharpening station for plane blades
Aircraft timber for a 1917 Sopwith Camel - Ep2, cutting down a baulk 10x3" x15' to a few sticks
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Aircraft timber for a 1917 Sopwith Camel - Ep2, cutting down a baulk 10x3" x15' to a few sticks
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep5
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Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep5
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep4
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Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep4
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep3
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Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep3
Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep2
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Making Ribs for a 1917 Sopwith Camel Ep2
Aircraft timber for a 1917 Sopwith Camel - Ep1, just lumbering along
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Aircraft timber for a 1917 Sopwith Camel - Ep1, just lumbering along
Nice jig for that angle! The ribs look great!
Thanks Kevin :-)
Beautiful work!
Thanks Keith :-)
Good progress !
Thanks Phil :-)
Looking good. Great quality
Cheers Bruce. A closer look shows some cleanup is needed, but that comes with figuring this stuff out as you go. Pretty happy with the results so far and the improvement.
That was a late night post! So much to think about with this build! Good stuff.
Cheers :-) I squeeze in time where I can. Lots to think about is right. While editing I was thinking "I should have got some footage on my melted T-88 bottles...". Long story short, a dumb move that didn't quite end in disaster but did need a late night purchase of two $2 sauce bottles. Ah well, maybe its best forgotten!
And yes as a wood worker I know you can never have enough too many clamps. I was thinking of what 1/48 scale kit plane from WWI to build that was operated by Australia. I now know.
@@MattProjectthe melted bottle sound expensive. 1.5 degrees is not pretty fresh. At least ply won’t move APR d too much moving from the shed to the house.
looks like the cupping of flat sawn timber. If you need the flat sawn timber as spec then maybe try it up the other way. it will still cup but maybe a slight up round may be beneficial to a fabric covered wing. just thinking out loud.
Hi Russell, yep I have seen that in flat sawn timber but typically the timber is still drying, warping as it loses moisture creating uneven stresses. I have seen it most in wet flat sawn fence palings and weatherboards that have not been nailed up promptly.. Tight grain and dry tends to eliminate most issues. So far my experience with this timber is that it is remarkably stable given some pretty extreme environmental conditions. I'm laying this one down to me abusing perfectly good timber!!!
when i steam bend like this I use an old saw blade on top of the wood before bending and keeping clamped until cold.
That's a good idea, it'll definately help spread the pressure on the timber. Like it, thanks.
Loving your work.Bry
Cheers Bry
Loving the work. Bry
Thanks Bry :-)
Glad to hear. I know longer times in steamer(up to a point) and longer on shape form will help. It will slow you down making the ribs though. Maybe construct 1 or 2 more forms ?? I watch on UA-cam a guy that rebuilds stage coaches. And he has to make the wagon wheels. He utilizes a long steamer and bends really thick lumber laminations. Amazing to watch him. I never thought of using a wallpaper steamer for steam. I have one of those. Hmm
Glad I'm not doing wagon wheels!
@@MattProject lol
The strip cupping is probably due to grain direction, it really should be vertical not horizontal. You should also leave the strips in the mould overnight if possible. Not criticising your work at all, just trying to help.
Thanks Phil, longer in the mould has definitely helped. I haven't done overnight but will with future pieces. Grain direction for cap strips is an interesting discussion. When I started someone raised it but I couldn't find anything to support it. I since have (can't remember where, but I did find it) but I stuck with horizontal because of the screws that penetrate the cap strips (into the ply webs and the spars), thin vertical grain may split under pressure from screws while horizontal grain is somewhat better. The shorter cooking time has resolved the cupping, longer in the mould should help retain the form and perhaps help with reducing spring-back. Thanks for your comments Phil, I'm a novice working it out as I go, feedback or queries are welcome :-)
@@MattProjectIf ever you are unsure about any aspect of Camel building, just ask. No guarantee I’ll know, but I might.
Thanks Phil, you are already on my list :-)
Maybe leave on bending form 25-30 mins v if still spring back try 40-45. There’s going to be a happy medium you will achieve. Looking good. CHEERS
Thanks Bruce, I ended up leaving the cap strips on the mould around 40 minutes which seemed to work well. I kinda suspect longer would be even better, but will try that next time. On the plus size, they came off the mould and were screwed straight onto the ply webs which will help as well.
Get a microstop for doing the countersinks.
Thanks for that, will order one this week :-)
i don't understand the staining course structural damage to a plane please make it much clearer why you don't want it i do see the grain of the wood does play parts had to make a wood model of the house i designed when to the wood pile for a nice piece and start to cut out my wood i need to use had the staining in the wood the teacher was the bright he ask why it looks that way new fire proving and development stupid or what but i did pass that class on a low budget like when i was in trade college we had to rebuild a gearbox miss piss pants did not get a partner i had my own gearbox to work own yea noticed one in the group was covered in rust me i knew where it has been beed underwater in a water treatment plant my luck someone pict it lol I land the gearbox work on them with my uncle i knew there not much wrong with them phoned the place we get the new parts for them and they put it outside pick them up when i going home have another class i was taking behaviour problem class that was a hard one to pass failed it a few times you think now the judge would have stopped sending me to the class Yeah i punched out a politician he told me to get off my own property stupid move on his part not checking who owns it and he should have been aware of it was a natural park it inside of saying he had to step down from any government jobs he did have to give up his government poison plan so he did not think it was right but it was ok for him to have our lost the new law passed he had a lot of drinks he was over his limit he got a DUI and landed up in jail at that time his own rules he landed the skunk in jail he had to show up for court too but he did not show up he got 90 more days in it now he can not venture outside of the country now back to the gearbox springs some of them were broken or straight out i did have one in mine too it's odd taken mine apart and sandblasted it repainted it with special paint to reassemble my box the spring again funny one came with my parts i ordered the sale person know i need a new too we laugh each time we see it other the teachers were confused about the springs Friday came only one that had ther real to be tested was mine too the city had someone visit the testing on Monday i answered their question about when doe the spring fit in there were NO springs in the boxes so Miss piss pants passed as to the class they had to rewrite the test over against make sure if you going to help the paki's to pass their tests make sure no one can understand your language too i was only one passed the test too
Staining can be caused by bacteria or fungus in the timber which may eventually cause it to rot, losing strength in the process. Not all staining leads to rot, but I don't know enough to identify the different types. Houses are built very robust and will not collapse with a bit of rotten framing. Planes are built very light and will fail with even small amounts of rot.
i am enjoying seeing your progress with this project its easy to forget just how many seperate parts go into some thing as "simple" as a wooden biplane"
Thanks for the encouragement :-) If you are curious, 500 parts for a set of Camel wings - 4 wings plus the centre section. I don't dwell on that though as staring at the mountain can dissuade you from climbing it! One step at a time.
@@MattProject how many were duplicates I suppose if your making dozens it would be almost as quick as making a few
There are quite a few duplicates. The ribs spring to mind, but also in the metal brackets and other fittings. Each wing is a mirror image of the other side and there are parts common to all four wings. Looking at part numbers and allowing for those parts without numbers ~100 unique parts to make in various quantities for the wing set.
i had my great-great-great-great uncle's plane in for a full restore when it came back for ww1 did have structural damage from he had crushed it a few times when he got injured for him it was normal to fight with it war was not going to wait to have your plane fided lol my understanding it was not the same wings the plane had when it was built fire destroyed the wings April i had it booked in the first for both hanger doors to be openly wanting to be there to see if it did have a video of the all and the moving of the bomber out of the bay into the other bay to the hanger did smell heavy with gasoline we got told they use it to clean the hanger doors 25 years the last time the back door was open 50 years for the front hanger door was opened up too did clean out fast when the door open did not want to have my vehicle broken into at the hockey game that night i put all my cameras in the biplane overnight i had paperwork to sign and throw to the machine gun that was to be restored to working storage they close the closes and locked them to most of us were at the hockey game got to call the hanger was goft inside with flames nothing was left inside or of the hanger too if he had never taken me up on the plane a short time after born i would not have cared about it 22 years after finding out why i was put on the plane to see all the property i would get on my 22 birthday i never saw that amount of money in my life before every send that somehow i turn i am getting more money too as to the plane like to find one like that one 2 are flyable and the 3thrd some are not and none is for sale the museum and the history site of the hanger still have not heard if it will be rebuilt at this time it's funny the next day the runway was being torn up to my guess the developer who owns the land had something to do with it too
Thank you for sharing what was obviously a tragic event. Both aircraft deserved to find a museum, especially with the family history. Hopefully you can follow along a little with my efforts to recreate one of the flyers from that period.
Pretty ambitious project i luckily was introduced to early enough to follow from the start👍🏼👍🏼Wishing great success!
Thanks Richard, I'm looking forward to the day eventually when I can binge watch myself doing this to completion. One day, just gotta keep plugging away at it :-)
Best wishes from a fellow Camel builder ( UK). You have a long road ahead.
Hi Phil, would love to hear a little about your project. Your short clip is great and has me very curious :-)
@@MattProject which clip ? Happy to help if I can.
I followed your youtube handle and found a clip circling a Camel under construction, it appears to have been placed for a function in a RAF hanger about 5 years ago.
@@MattProject ah yes, it was an event 100 years after WW1. RAF Scampton.
Where are you at now with your Camel? Any chance of posting an update video over the weekend :-)
Did you also use glue on cap strip attachments?
I hope so, absolutely essential.
@@flyerphil7708 just a little adds a lot of strength. Old saying “ screw & glue”
Hi guys, I thought I mentioned in the video, maybe I edited it out! Glueing in current temperatures (under 5 degree C) would lead to failed joints. This is a ten year project, so I have time to glue them at a more favourable time of year, likely Spring. The screws don't add much if any strength and arguably the screw holes weaken the cap strip. They hold the assembly together until it is glued around (not to) the two spars. Historically they were shipped to the front in this state for combat repairs.
@@MattProjectyou did say that you will glue them later. 👍
Amazing how lightly built and delicate those parts are !
Yep and the whole lot assembled - delicate wood, wire and canvas... with a heavy motor spinning just in front of your feet!
I've been following your progress since episode 7, love your work! If you don't mind sharing, I'm interested in where you got the plans for the build, where you sourced your wood overseas, the costs so far and how much you expect the build will cost, howl long do expect the build ot take, the forums and places you go to to get your information and chat with others (like the person you discussed glue with :)). Chatting during the build or even a quick Q&A/behind the scenes video on the how to would be awesome. I've spent a few hours googling and it appears the information is harder to find than i expected. Keep up the good work.
Start here and pick up a set of plans. They are really inspiring to look at and explore. replicraftplans.com/ No idea what the cost will be. Somewhere between "where did my hobby money go?" and "very glad I didn't have to pay someone for this". A slow build though means the costs are spread and far less painful. The biggest expense may be the motor. Or I may build that as well. Build time maybe 10-15 years. I'm not in a hurry. There are several kit manufacturers for vintage aircraft. Advantages include faster build times, fixed costs(ish), instructions (none the way I'm doing it) and enthusiastic build support by phone/email. The kit builders I follow complain a little about the imperfections, in comparison I can't complain - the designers, suppliers and veteran support are all gone. A kit is a good option. Explore Aircraft Spruce in the US for material. Wood is expensive, shipping anything to NZ is also expensive. There are alternatives to Spruce. A good forum, one or two are a little grumpy but there is a wealth of knowledge here and multiple past and current builds documented: www.theaerodrome.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=17 My approach to this project is to solve the problems one at a time and as they come up. Meaning there is a lot of uncertainty ahead. I don't mind that as answers to problems often pop up while searching for other things. But, it's not an approach that suits everyone. Many (most?) builders prefer all the answers before they start, for example sourcing a hard to find motor or set of instruments before they invest time building. Figure out based on past experience where you sit on uncertainty and factor that in - it'll help ensure you enjoy the process. Hope this helps :-)
Awesome response Matt thank you. I'm in Australia so i hear your pain re: importing wood.
Please be careful with the table planer. It was one of those that took the tips off two of my left hand fingers. My pointer and middle fingers are noticeable shortet
I'm very careful around any of the mechanical spinning blades of death and very aware that everyone says that just before they lose a finger... These cap strips are likely the smallest thing I need to process on that tool and I'm not far off finishing those. Thanks for sharing Bruce, I don't mind being reminded!!
When you finish the wing ribs, where will you assemble the wings? Where will you build the fuselage?
Hi Bruce, wing assembly is a year or two away, I'm waiting till closer the time to solve that. It is likely the stack of unprocessed timber will be gone by then and if we are still here I can build a wing assembly table in that space. Any house move over the next few years will include looking at options. It will also motivate processing the last of that timber, I did not enjoying moving it last time.
Just found your build and now need to watch from no 1, lovely workmanship
Thanks, just keep in mind my You Tube skills are not high. Hopefully slowly improving but I'm never going to be a UA-camr. I've given up on music for example because I don't have a musical ear (or taste) and there are one or two poor choices in there :-) But hopefully you will enjoy despite the flaws.
@@MattProject I know what you mean I am slowly getting to grip with recording and editing , my problem is I start doing something then think Dohhhh I forgot to record it lol
:-) I feel you, done that a few times. Also had the other problem where I don't look at my footage for two weeks - thinking I haven't done much, then find I have stupid amounts to review and edit into something useful. I'll watch your vids when I get a moment. I nearly started with a lathe and plans to make a 1/3 scale Gnome motor. I figured that project would be a good intro to lathe work and if I enjoyed and finished it, maybe a full sized version could be doable.
I would love to see the wing spar build..thanks for these videos
It will be a while but yes :-) I'm currently trying to source suitable sheet metal, so that once I finish the ribs I can move onto brackets for the wings. Kinda doing the smaller and more stable parts first. In my mind (rightly or wrongly) I want ribs and fittings to go onto the spars almost as soon as they are made. The timber I have for spars seems fairly settled but I don't want to test it by leaving finished 4m lengths sitting on a shelf for a year or two.
I like the details and greater understanding of the labor involved and the care you take. Thanks again for sharing this project.
Thanks Kevin for the encouragement, there is certainly a bit of labor and at the end of the week I'm always surprised about the progress made. It never feels like much until I review the footage. In any case I'm very much enjoying the process - mistakes, cold weather and all :-)
where do plans for a sopwith camel found?
Pick up a set from here - replicraftplans.com/ Over time you will also start finding original plans for parts, but the replicraft plans are the best place to start and the only plans I have seen to date that show how the parts work together. There are _no_ instructions. Proceed only if you are comfortable with that and with making the inevitable many mistakes. With that said, personally I'm really enjoying the process.
i looked at the link. Are you scaling up the plans to make a full size plane?
Plans are printed 1/5th scale which is handy for 1/5th scale modellers, but all the dimensions on the plans are full scale and copied from original plans. The orignal Sopwith plans from 1917 aren't drawn 1:1 scale either.
neat !
Instead of double sided tape, you can use a trick is luthier s use. Put masking tape on each piece then use a drop or two of super glue. It will hold your master securely while you route your holes. Hope this helps.
Hi Rick, that sounds like it would actually work. I'm ok for this part of the project but you have my curiosity, I'll give it a go :-) Cheers
I have been enjoying your videos on the build. I've been learning quite a few tips on how to make good templates for producing multiple ribs. The clamp on drill is likely not much different than what Sopwith used when producing Camels.
Thanks for the encouragement. When I look back it's been quite the journey to get to this point, with luck I'm shortening the learning curve for yourself and others :-) I quite like that drill press, probably for that reason!
Nice work. An impressive stack of parts.
Cheers, need a handful more then onto building ribs :-)
Very good. I appreciate the skills you have making the wing ribs. I can imagine some craftsman back in 1916 building the same way.
Hi Bruce, skills all learned on the fly. But yeah, I wonder myself how close I am to the original production methods :-)
@@MattProjectI so love WW1 aircraft. And I’ll be following you on your project ❤
These router bits carbide or HSS?
Carbide IIRC
Keep up the good work. Best wishes from the UK.
Thanks Stephen, I appreciate the encouragement :-)
Very interesting build and testing. I am building a much more modern, and less classic, wooden wing plane. Can you write down the maintenance book you mentioned that this is taken from ? Dan
Brimm & Boggess, Aircraft Maintenance. My copy is dated 1940. I picked it up from ebay or amazon. Another one you may find useful is the english translation of Hans Jacobs, Workshop Practice from The Vintage Sailplane Association. I found them both very good reads.
Thanks !@@MattProject
That is a lot done in one part of a day! Seems like you could finish the aircraft in a few more weeks at this rate! I do look forward to the assembly portion but this prep work is not boring.
Hi Kevin, fast forward hides a lot of time spent on the job :-) Thanks for the encouragement.
Someone told me once. “ ya start eatin the elephant one bite at a time”. May see like a lot but if keep at it. You will get to the end
The first guy I ever worked for said the same thing. Very true too.
Hey Bruce, yep this is one very big elephant!
Instead of drilling the ply rib webs and cap strips separately - a slight modification to your rib jig and drilling jig may let you drill both while in the jig. The rib jig would need a few swinging "fingers?" to hold the cap strips and webs down(your cam clamps may do this already. Then if your drilling jig was set up at the right height above the jig base and parallel to it, you could run it around the ribs drilling the holes in situ, followed by eh counter sinking. Considering the number of ribs you need this would have less chance of error I feel. Anyway just food for thought. building this Camel from scratch is quite adventurous. Cheers.
@@MattProject Perhaps a long reach drill bit would help? As for maintaining alignment in the x and y axes - this would be possible if the longer reach drill allowed you to use the jig base as the alignment datum for the y axis (vertical) while the x axis would rely on the drill jig running on the jig base and the cap. if an extended length drill bit is not going to work then perhaps another base plate could be located under the existing or even just using the bench supporting the jig if it is flat - to provide the alignment for the drill jig.
Thanks John, you have got the grey matter thinking :-)
Music was harmless just too loud!
Really nice! Things moving along well.
Gave up when the bloody music started........
Looks like real nice work so far!
I'm enjoying it :-)
No glue?😢. Even titebond just a lil would make me feel more comfortable it won’t flex ? Also how did the testing go?
Adam Savage on Tested has a great video on making lots of the same thing and the cost of a small amount of time on each of lots of operations.
great stuff , keep the vids comming, love the quality control, i would have filled the pull outs with body filler, LOL, this will take years which is great, take your time, i will be watching!
lol, I used body filler in my first rib jig, we are old friends and yep, I'm not in a hurry! Big thanks for the encouragement :-)
With your scrap rate I'd be looking at a CNC router. Did the oscillating sander switch get fixed?
Hi John, you're not wrong. I have more time than dollars though. When I got a price for water/laser cutting, it was pretty high putting me off. In hindsight and after some destructive testing (in a few videos) I was a bit tough on myself with regards tolerances on those ply webs, especially since my rejects appeared to more than pass destructive testing. Modern ply and glue of course helps. Yes on the switch, they sent out a new one, no questions asked.
Using moulding wax on the jig would avoid the ribs gluing to the jig.
Useful idea, I had to Google that :-) I found both moulding wax and mould release wax. I'm picking it's mould release wax you're referring to? I would have to test it with the varnish I intend to use, my experience with wax (but obviously not this wax) suggests it may transfer to the timber.
@@MattProject Yes that's right - mould release wax is the thing to use. Rub the wax in and buff it when dry. repeat at least once.
I'll give it a go :-)
Great video! Sorry for the set back but the new plan sounds a lot better. Wonder if they used weights or straps to add clamping pressure to ensure proper glue up? Not sure if it is needed just wondering.
Hi Kevin, good question. Also not sure but my preference is to see more clamping points to get the pressure more evenly distributed. The screws alone are a bit far apart for my liking. No solution yet, but I've got time to think on it and create one.
Thin plastic sheeting can also mask the bottom of the jig and constrain glue quite well. What engine do you plan to use for this? Are you aware of Classic Aero Machining Services' rotary engines at Blenheim? I'm aware that's a long way off! Enjoying your videos as I have to construct a Camel in a year or two from a half-made kit I acquired. Also using Replicraft plans and have some extra ones you may need in due course...
Hi Andrew, when it comes time, if you start posting progress videos, let me know the link :-) Definitely a long way off needing a motor and I suspect he will be retired before I'm ready! My original plan was to purchase a lathe and start with the engine. I have plans for a 1/3rd scale engine that will eventually be a useful project to gain skills. Those initial plans changed when I found unexpectedly found Spruce in NZ. Happy to chat about Sopwith drawings. Find me on theareodrome.com - Kiwi Camel Project.
Wax paper I used to use when I was building radio control airplane wings. Plans on table then wax paper then part glued. The glue would not stick to building board. Same results you would get if you can apply wax paper to your rib jig. You would eliminate where rib piece gets glued to your jig
Hi bruce, I've thought about that and might yet come back to it. Difficulties include having to wax paper around the two spars and nose piece. Plus I have glued lugs on this jig (which could come off now). These aren't insurmountable difficulties, but over the next few weeks I'll explore screwing the cap strips into place and glueing them later in bulk.
@@MattProject lay the wax paper FLAT out on build surface. You may have to cut WP in strips.
Thanks Bruce :-)