Відео

Madison isn't sexually assaulted in Heavy Rain. Her dream sequence when the robbers attack her isn't sexual, it's just violent. The scene with the serial killer doctor isn't sexual either. He just wants to perform surgery on her because he's insane. The scene with Paco is her going undercover as a "sexy party girl" to get closer to Paco to receive information from him. Then when he has a gun pointed at her, she uses her body to distract him long enough to get the upper hand.

lol.... 200 subs... lot more than 200 now heh..

Was with you until the typical Berserk slander. Never cook again

meanwhile crusader kings 3 just casually raid for concubines #beastmode

24:00 Tourist, exhibit A

You should do a part 2 with the games mentioned in the comments

I……don’t know about Fear & Hunger tbh 😭 full disclosure I have not heard of or played the game prior to watching this video and I am a survivor, but I feel like actually explicitly showing rape on screen is just a lot. I understand the point of it being an aspect of the game in general, but I can’t help but feel like it is unnecessary to explicitly show it. I feel like the seriousness of SA and more specifically rape can be communicated without having to lowkey traumatize the player/watcher/etc Some of the comments said F&H2 tones down the explicitness of said scenes, and I think that’s great!

Honestly i never really took any issue with killing in uncharted when the people you kill are mostly -murderous pirates -serbian war criminals (maybe the worst out of them all due to being somewhat based on real life) -mercenaries -strange british cult members(?) all of whom will shoot you on sight

HDCP is why you couldn't capture from the PS3

MGSV is the only game that i tried being non-lethal the whole game, and it actually feels rewarding, because you can recruit the soldiers that you keep alive.

This War of Mine really handles killing quite well. During war a group of citizens must survive for as long as they can and killing people-unless you have a character who is purposely cold hearted- is gonna get to everyone and make them feel upset. If it continues or goes unaddressed the killer may fall into an extreme depression and possibly end their lives

The discussion around Tomb Raider 2013 was dogshit in a lot of ways. I vividly remember some moron journalist accuse the "death scenes" as fetishistic (who knows, might've even been Anita Sarkeensian). Like that "the male players" purposely killed Lara to find her deaths titillating, that is was just for "the male gaze". It was so disgustingly sexist in all the ways and I swear it was 100% projection from that person. They literally thought about it themselves and then theorized "this is what sexist male gamers must be doing!" I think a lot of artists are self-censoring due to the fear of representing SA poorly and getting sucked into bad discussion like that. Which is a good fear to have, you don't want to make it "titilating" in any way (unless that's the point of the story and what that means, entails, and explore the concept of a fetish). If you read any romance (god help you), then you know the bad examples of how much SA is treated as both "horrible inexcusable patriarchial crime" and "really hot when the hot love interest white boy twink vampire pushes consent". Sometimes in the same damn story... In AAA games, SA is glossed over, it's just kinda there to add darkness into the world-building. It rarely gets the attention it requires, we don't see the impacts of it much. It's like being tortured and acting like nothing happened. It's just shock value as SA is just torture. And just like torture, it's too often used as a cheap plot device to make you root for the MC or make the villains more dasdardly. And whenever there is torture, it seems SA will be used for women, normal torture for men. As if men can't be SAd and no horrible villain would do it. It does make it feel fetishistic at times... And even in so called "good inclusions" of SA, it sometimes is treated almost... Biblically immense. It's a traumatic torturous act, but there are so many cases it's rules over the character's entire being. I think of Alice Madness with this, where Alice's Wonderland is her mind escaping from her trauma. Her entire reality is her trauma. And it's a quirky manic pixie land. It feels like it's romanticizing something, not SA, not trauma, but being a victim. It almost feels like a form of "yaassification" of victimhood, trying to make it seem quirky and goth. I think the main reason it feels so bad is because Alice never gets help for it. She gets her abuser killed and kinda just deals with her demons and insanity. But her God still is that trauma. Her suffering is bibilically immense. And it's just goofy at that point. It's romanticized misery-porn. The setup is in good taste, but it devolves into bad taste the longer it goes and once you realize Alice can never get past it. These "bad taste" examples scares other artists from even trying to tackle the topic. But a lot of people want to explore it through a safe medium, maybe for therapeutic reasons. Every single video essay about game with prominent SA themes is always coming from a woman and it's mainly for women. And there's interesting discussion happening in the comments. There's an audience for it. There is a community for it. I just wish other artists wouldn't be so lazy with it.

Imma be honest, i never thought dave was a grapist I just thought he was just a psycho cannibal just like many other games have so i Never understood why people said he was one

13:15

by the pure fact i comment here i know im promoting this channel, sadly i dont want to not say my opinion, using tlou SERIES as an argument... cheap, absolutely cheap, and guess what, you cant represent sa in a game right because its fantasy.

i saw fear and hunger but also stayed cuz this kinda stuff is never really brought up in media and if it is its usually done horribly

Bro, you should do a video essay on "How games handle (or ignore) non-lethality" I think you could make interesting points/observations, like how it's always the "less fun" way of playing a game mainly due to having like 1-2 ways of actually taking out enemies vs. the lethal playstyle. Take Metal Gear Solid for example: Non-lethally, you got like... takedown, stun grenades, and the tranq-gun that sucks balls. Meanwhile, the lethal player gets 800000 guns, grenades, bazookas, exlposives, knives, poison, environmental traps, and at least 2 different close-quarters attacks. Playing "good" is boring while playing "bad" is fun.

Ypu could probably make a whole separate video about Danganronpa and the way it treats S.A. and victims of it

What the fuckkkkkkkkkkkkk Heavy Rain looks fucking horrible now that i know this.

I think Roadwarden handles killing quite well. There’s I believe only one person you can actually kill directly in the game, and it’s treated as a *big* deal, it even has an achievement. (there’s also a few you can get killed, but you don’t directly do it). Violence in general is typically frowned upon, and it’s directly tackled in a quest where you can bring justice to a “malefactor” who harmed people through their actions (actions which are looked upon with either fear, disgust or disappointment by almost every character in the game). Just my two cents though.

How you gonna include Killing/Violence without including both Hotline Miami games 👿

w persona ost

Ludonarrative in isolation isn't necessarily a good or bad thing. Uncharted in particular is mimicking a staple of the pulp adventure genre going back to decade old novels. Where dissonance is plenty in favor of high action.

In the last of us 2 isnt there a room in the wlf base thats full of grunts that ellie had killed up until that point

As a survivor, Fear and Hunger is one of my faborite depictions of SA in gaming because it's actually realistic, and it can happen to anyone regardless of gender or circumstance. It shows SA as what it really is: vicious brutality. F&H is one of the only pieces of media I've ever seen that doesnt water down the reality of SA in order to be more "digestible", its a horrible, violent thing, on par with torture, and has no justification in any situation whatsoever, it's purely evil. The reason why people are so uncomfortable with it whereas theyre fine with gore is because a lot of people who have no experience with SA dont realize how truly brutal it is, because its rarely ever depicted realistically in media.

At first glance I thought this was titled "San Andreas in other games"

I think the core problem with various narrative portrayals of S.A. is that it's often not just the inclusion of the action itself that's pushed back on, but the objectification of female characters in general. And I don't just mean that in the sense that the female characters are sexualized, although that does contribute to why these scenes are sometimes so uncomfortable, but in the sense that they are often treated as literal objects in the narrative. They often have little to no character, are often only plot points in the story with no real agency, and everything about their characters are reduced down to their sex appeal and/or their a physical appearance. I think part of the push back on heavy rain and tomb raider is that they literally gamify the scenes including S.A. (or situations similar to it). Tomb raider is less egregious, but even if it wasn't intended to be an assault seen, the fact that the devs didn't even consider that it might be seen that way I think shows a lack of awareness of how those kinds of issues might affect a female audience (i.e. I don't think they kept their female audience in mind very much. Especially with the paternalistic way they describe the players relationship to Lara Croft). And you can use that objectification in a smart and meaningful way. Others have mentioned it, but mouthwashing has a really impactful inclusion of S.A. in the narrative. Not only is it literally the source of basically all conflict in the story, but because you're playing as the antagonist for a good chunk of it, you literally view the victim as an object, because that's how assaulters think. Everything about that character is from the perspective of her rapist, and as a result you get a completely different framing of her character than you would if the event had not happened or when you play as other characters. The objectification of the character is used in a narratively meaningful way to characterize the people around her, while simultaneously having her be a pretty fleshed out character in her own right through all the small narrative details that are included. The fact that it references real world actress Shelley Duvall and her experience is on set of "The shining" just adds more layers of narrative depth. I think in order to do it justice to the topic, you really kind of have to take an empathetic perspective and basically treat it like a horror movie. You need to create sympathetic characters whose shoes that you can step into and experience that fear with them. This is the reason why no adaptation of Lolita has ever worked, by the way. For some reason, movie directors keep trying to portray it as a tragic romance movie instead of a horror movie from the perspective of the monster. Like, the novel literally opens with a character telling you that the narrator is a monster who is completely delusional, he contemplates murdering somebody, and you see his victim years later who is basically a ball of trauma. TL;DR I think the reason that people feel uncomfortable with the inclusion of S.A. in stories is because female characters are often objectified and viewed purely through their sex appeal, which is partially how a rapist thinks. Once you actually introduce S.A into the narrative, you either make it a little too real for the victims of it or you accidentally put your audience into the eyes of how a rapist views their victims.

to be honest i was not choked by the attempt rape on lara in tomb raider especially seeing that have clearly a women in months if not years and have lost most of social norms it only sold me more on the danger this island represent. also it is the first men she kills it emphasized her loss of innocence and justify the killing machine she becomes by the end of the game.(i don't count the one she escaped at the beginning in the cave wich let's be honest was also going to rape her) the only downside to me it is not really addressed later in the game. the fact she kept her agency however embolden to play as the predator to them, cause if you think about it if lara was able to defend herself how many couldn't.

you do not know how much i wanted someone to talk about this. seeing scenes like from heavy rain makes me feel so sexually objectified and violated as a woman. especially in anime as well. many people brush these aspects off just because it is fiction when it is such an insult to victims irl. i wish the people would be more against these things so i wouldnt have to see it literally everywhere.

There is a mass amount of visual light novel or dating simulator games produced in japan that contain romanticized SA scenes (many using minors). I hate the fact that these games are so globally available that you can buy them on steam. "Song of Saya", is a visual novel game containing scenes of straight up p3d0filia. In fact, the version of Song of Saya on US Steam is not even the original version because the real one is not CENSORED.

I dont agree with the TLOU arguement killing in self defence is normal to ellie torturing and channeling joel is not. So scenes like nora hit, because its different to ellie, having to humanise mel hits because she is pushing further even though in back of her mind she knows she has problems with it her own self. And serves as parallel to dina. i dont see it as ludonarrative dissonance except maybe the upgrade system which i can let go for gameplay reasons...

My dumbass really thought bro was gonna talk about San Antonio till I clicked the video

Stories can deal with murder in whatever way and its fine but whenever it touches rhe r@pe subjecy people get up in arms. Grow up, its not real.

Some of yall in the comments are so soft bro, like it ain't even real

SA is overrated

I actually really liked the game on release, despite all the negativity surrounding it. But as someone recently coming back after a loooong hiatus, I absolutely LOVE the game!! They've really outdone themselves, and to see that they're still releasing amazing updates is beyond incredible! I makes me so happy to hear stories about their redemption arc and comeback. It's inspiring for my own little hobbies. This game seriously holds a special place in my heart.

As a woman who played F&H and loved it...The SA wasn't as shocking and uncomfortable to me. I think it's because the game simply shows it as another form of violence that can happen to the character, and it can happen whether the player character is male or female. I also have only seen men complain about this aspect of F&H, and I think it might be because women naturally have to worry about SA as a real possibility in our day to day lives but not so much for men. Thus, when it happens to a woman playing the game it clocks naturally as a form of violence but not so much for male players. I wonder if the SA only happened to the female characters that it wouldn't not be as shocking to male players as much.... but I don't know.

Why the fuck did I had to start the video to now for what S. A. stands for? Something like that should had been written out or at least been mentioned in the video description. 🤬

Everybody's mentioning how games like the Metro Series, Undertale, Metal Gear, GTA IV, Far Cry 3, and RDR2 weren't even brought up in the video, meanwhile Hotline Miami and its story's take on ludonarrative dissonance is being slept on. I remember watching another video like this and in it, it did bring up Hotline and I remember distinctively this one moment where it shows the protagonist puking due to all of the killing he has done throughout the whole game up to that point. Man, did that hit the feels..

me: ooooooo fear and hunger- oh.

Man I gotta buy last us 2 for my ps5 kinda miss it

The camera work in Madison's nightmare sequence says it all about what that scene is for. Cinematography speaks.

God i hate your voice, am sorry i have mysophonia so am very sensitive to sounds like i can here that drawl at the end of thing you say and it drives me mad.

Went from a goal of 200 by the end of the year to 2k before the year end. Proud of you dude!

Baldurs Gate 3 has a very sensible way of dealing with SA in Astarions story. It is not explixitly shown, but the aftermath and dealing with it, is very well done

Ellie in the tv show nearly broke my heart in that scene. Never been so relieved to see someone get hit by a machete.

Coulda had a whole chapter on David Cage.

Good video but how do you make a video about not killing and not talking about Metal Gear Solid, Death Stranding, Metro and a lot more examples.

I know King Kong video game did adaptive difficulty

I really respect F&H, but it's too sad for me to play. I like watching Let's Plays of it.