Відео

"Gatherer hunters", huh? lol

Lovely episode, I will take up the call to action about planting native plants where I am at. The Buffalo Bridge project sounds wonderful. The discussion of disability was sad and joyful. Much better than what I have found on other places. I once made the mistake of trying tumblr to look for anything interesting in anti-civ tags. And it was not productive at all. To boil it down the leftists called anti-civ people ableist for wanting to get rid of industry. And I saw a few times when they would make fun of disabled people who are anti-tech. And the anti-civ anarchists talked about how keeping industrial production going is colonial work, ecocide, and harming our health. And it became so repetitive and damaging of my mind/soul to be on it that I quit tumblr. Tragedy is a part of life, and civilization's effort to deny this reality has created a much worse world. I told my friend who is a communist that all of the technologies that might, emphasis on the word might, improve life for some people in the first world and possibly in parts of the third world, are only possible through the misery of extraction and many dictatorships small and big across the world. The populations on the land that have the materials extracted also have people of all sorts of disabilities. For example I am sure that the people Toconce (a small town in Chile whose water is being drained) have members who are disabled. When the land became so dry that subsistence living was no longer possible, that puts a huge strain on the people. That makes it harder to take care of everyone, including the disabled. But at the same time it is hard to deal with this emotionally, at least for me.

first

I finished and this was definitely what I needed to hear/think about. I’ll definitely share this with my anthropology professors, and my anarchist friends.

20 minutes in and I am in full agreement with the assertion that modern society causes people to develop fear, anger, and anxiety (the parts of us for when things are going wrong) too much while neglecting the parts of us that are pro-social. Since I was a little kid I have had a lot of anger that because of how parental authority and school authority was organized and interacted with me repressed. This anger was a product of the many ways that the adults in my life have failed me as a kid, but because I was a neurodivergent weak kid I could not assert myself. I felt I could not. I have gotten to the point where I don’t think I will be a person if all of the hate in my heart was gone. I’d be an empty shell of a person. And it is one of the things that I struggle most to work on. In Stanley Diamond’s essay on schizophrenia and civilization, which I read recently but haven’t fully gnawed at, Schizophrenia is seen in two ways. As a process that will exist independent of us being agriculturalists, Industrialists, pastoralist, hunters and gatherers, or some other thing. But Schizophrenia as a clinical entity is a product of modernity. Schizophrenia as a clinical entity is something (not someone) to be restrained and isolated. It is something to be solved in an alienated way of medicine that sees only deficiencies. Personhood is only possible in limited ways in a restricted environment comparable to prison. In a case study Diamond brings up, a man with paranoid Schizophrenia spends time in a mental hospital where he is given some personhood and in some ways more kindness than he would be if he was on the outside. But he can’t have a sexual relationship and he is still subject to the operations of the mental hospital. It would be like if there was a group of people who society only saw as being partial people if they were sent in prison. It sounds absurd (because it is absurd). But he gives the explanation of how hunters and gatherers might see someone who is undergoing a schizophrenic process, a hallucination for example, and experience things that they are not. But instead of segregating the person undergoing the Schizophrenic process they might make this person into a spiritual leader of sorts. (He uses the word shaman). Speaking of the radical anthropology group I watched a video from Camilla Power called “Egalitarianism made us human: why Graeber and Wengrow get it wrong, by Camilla Power 9/1/24” and she talked about how women would act out big ego men in front of them to embarrass them. Yet there is quickly reconciliation after the embarrassment fades from the subject of ridicule and the fun fades from the crowd. I read several of Camilla Power’s articles after reading Jamie’s book. And I will definitely be reading up on Dr. Darcia Narvaez’s book and other writings. Super interesting so far.

I saw an animal video months or longer time ago which showed alligators and otters enjoying each other’s company, even though they are often at each other’s throats. In the book How Forests Think, the prologue takes time to explain how Jaguars are seen as people by a people in Ecuador (I don’t recall which people). When a jaguar leaves behind a carcass that still has meat behind, the jaguar is seen as an ally and a friend. When a jaguar kills a human child it is seen as an enemy. And other times they are just neutral or strangers. I bring this up because when it comes to predator-prey relationships it is not always active. Sometimes a friendship or a tolerance holds for a bit before going back to hunting and evading. It isn’t static. Quantity is a quality in of itself. I don’t have a problem with having chickens for eggs, feathers, and meat, or having dogs as companionship and as hunting comrades. That is fine as far as I am concerned. However to be able to have chickens and dogs at industrial scales, or pets in industrial scale requires having so much more control and investment that it shifts the relationship. There has to be more specialized labor that is concentrated to build up the animal industry, and there has to be space dedicated to making these industrial pets/foods/clothing. Which is how we get people breeding betta fish to have very colorful scales that have a high chance of getting cancer and other diseases. We have dogs bred to fit human desire that are unhealthy. We have sheep that no longer rub off their wool so are now dependent on human actors to do it for them. Industrial agriculture and agriculture more broadly is an intensification of something humans have been doing long before. In Health and the Rise of Civilization by Mark Nathan Cohen there is part that says that in industrial societies the access to more meat eat is ironically a source of disease for the wealthy. This is because unlike hunters and gatherers who get their meat from animals that are not sedentary, meaning healthier animals. Whereas in animal farming in industrial contexts involved reducing the exercise of the animals and an unhealthy diet. I have more to say about the interview but it’ll have to wait when I am not so upset by unrelated thing.

"I'd rather have state communism rather than state ya know right wing fascism, cause state communism is definitely fascist. Definitely, absolutely." This is the opus of leftist thought haha. They have an "anarchy 101" way of explaining how they see things but I'm glad they are writing and putting out their ideas. They seem like a great person and their heart is swimming around the anarchist soup of migraines (maybe that is the right place?). It's nice to see new names writing. Maybe they'll take more pages out of green anarchy in the future, I hope to see more work and growth Lint. -Silas

The keyboard warriors are shaking in their boots right now

Another recommendation I somehow overlooked! "How Non-Violence Protects the State" by Gelderloos is an awesome piece on this!! - Artxmis

Ahhhhh….this channel is a breath of fresh air in a sea of trash. I started in green anarchy over a decade ago and I’m coming back to it after all these years. Civilization and all it brings is trash.

You’re mistaken about non-violent movements being easy to control. Violent movements in western societies are much easier to control than nonviolent ones. When a movement begins attacking the state, the state now has justification to use every lever of its power against the violent movement. It can classify the movement as a domestic terrorist organization and good luck functioning within the states’ borders with any efficacy after that. I think this is true until the violence reaches a certain threshold that the judicial system can’t handle the load of crimes against the state.

You guys are the worst podcast I've ever listened to. Your toxic masculinity and USAness is soo annoying. You're full of shit and don't understand how movements and power works. Please shut the fuck up and learn violence from a feminist and non-human perspective.

I dont think Emile Henry was right but i don’t think he was wrong either. I mean “institutions “ is just a fancy abstract word. At the end of the day what we’re talking about is people. People are the ones who obey, command, comply, apathetic, idolize, i mean i cant say i dont understand where the rage from these “basement dwellers “ comes from.

I talked about pacifism with my friend today and she told me “pacifism is a very dangerous idea because it denies people the ability to use violence to assert their autonomy. Not being able to use some kind of violent action means being an easy victim,” i agree with her. I also think that violence is an important part of life, only the type and degree is in question. When a hunter hunts down an animal for food or material use that hunter is using violence to sustain themselves and presumably other people. And if they animal escapes that might be harmful to the hunter and those close to the hunters. I see it as violent but it is a different type of violence than from the Holocaust, or raping someone, or a factory poising a river and giving cancer to everyone who drinks from it or bathes in it. They are all violence but to say that they are equal or anywhere near equal hunting for need is so wrong that if someone can’t figure that out I would be very concerned.

I hope to be the 5 millionth subscriber 🤣

Yknow using the word lame in a derogatory manner is ableist right

I am 8 minutes in and that line that all violence is the same drives me mad in ways that I can not articulate through this medium. I met a pacifist activist who holds peace signs just outside my campus, it is multiple of them. And I talked to her and immediately we disagreed a bunch. But what crossed the line from me being angry to me being disgusted to the point I had to leave for my own well being is when I told her how a member of the Deacons of Self Defense used a gun to protect a Black girl from a mob of white men, and that pacifist said that the moment that the man used the gun he became as evil as those white supremacists. I asked her if she thought of a person using a knife or a gun or something else that can lead to the injury or the killing of another person was acceptable against someone trying to rape them. And she said that it is not acceptable because the person could run away or push the person away. And I was never so disgusted by a stranger in my life.

Yes, we know Brady said "Prodcast." Thought it was a little too funny to fix haha -G

Thank you very much … I am looking forward to part 3 🙏

I read Julian Langer's book, and I have already given it to my former therapist as a gift, and I will be giving it to my best friend who is also doing their best to heal from this society.

Honestly, I think an occasional audiobook is a nice addition to the channel

This is a very interesting discussion, thank you very much

I’m 56 minutes in and the stuff said about vulgar positivity/toxic positivity strikes hard. I used to have a friend who told me that I have a too negative thoughts about the future of the world and climate change and how we will fix this somehow. And I never knew how to respond to her because it seems so much like bullshit. She said that by being so pessimistic about the future I am saying that there is no point in doing anything. But that can easily be turned on it’s head. By downplaying the severity of our situation there is a downplaying of the urgency of action required. As well as the danger that we are in. I think that it is healthier to have a more pessimistic view of the ecological crisis to get it through people’s heads that something needs to be done instead of hoping for a technological miracle to save us. Ecological optimism is also in my view unhealthy with dealing with the trauma of climate change in the same way that not acknowledging the gravity of a traumatic experience or life is unhealthy. I don’t see how healing or growth can be done without actually confronting the trauma. I want to read Econ feminist texts, what are some recommendations? The comments about Artxmisian Primitivism was creepy. I have thought several times about making a UA-cam channel where I make video essays to explain media through an anarchist anti-civilization lens but the idea of having people hang on my every word or to base their identity on me is very off putting. I have seen enough cases of parasocial relationships being creepy so I haven’t made videos. Great episode I have more to think before saying.

Yoo

Good episode but I believe yall might be playing into a rightwing narrative by conflating the term woke with liberal political correctness. The word woke as we use it today in politics comes from ‘woke rap’ a music genre popular in the early 2010s that lyrical content focuses on socio-political awareness like systemic racism. It wasn’t until the 2016 US election did liberals adopt the term and than subsequent right wing grifters followed

Have you seen what's going on with the Shompen recently. It makes me feel like the Sentinelese won't be around much longer

I've read the book through twice now after finishing the suggested reading from the last episode Jamie was in. I've become a much more well read and informed person than I thought I'd ever be on these topics, but it helps to make my arguments more solid and rounds out my worldview

So glad you shared this anti-civ treasure! I've tried to find a book similar to F. Perlman's "Against His-story" ever since I've read it, but I couldn't. Now at last I've found this profound analysis and truly radical critique of civilization. Thank you for providing such an important content in your podcast.

Folder of time

When the deadline for Plastic in Utero 4?

A professor of environmental anthropology that I took told the class an anecdote in which he got a letter from an Indigenous person whose community still live off the land. The letter said that if the world ends the anthropologist can come live with them. And the professor talked about how when shot hits the fan it is people like us, domesticated city people, who are fucked while the hunters and gatherers and horticulturist and pastoralists that are dismissed as unimportant that are going to have a better shot at seeing the other side. As Jaimie said, living off the land is autonomy, and culture.

Great podcast. I listened to the whole thing, and Jamie is a great guest. I hope you have him on again when he releases his book on Graeber/Wengrow. I agree with almost everything Jamie says. As a primitivist myself, we definitely need to draw on the vast knowledge and history of indigenous people worldwide if we are going to survive as a species. We must not discount rewilding and bushcraft, as these are going to be essential practices in the years to come as civilization continues to slowly collapse. I also agree that the Lavi et al paper is kind of pathetic. Where I disagree with Jamie is when he insists there is a causal connection between hunting and gathering and socio-political organization. There are many H-G societies who do hunting and gathering who are organized along despotic, strictly hierarchical, stratified lines, just as there are many H-G societies who have egalitarian communal anarchist structures. There are also horticultural, sedentary, and even neolithic urbanized societies that also have face to face egalitarian socio-political organizations (e.g. Catulhoyuk). This idea that "you cannot have a functioning egalitarian anarchist society without a physical hunting and gathering praxis", or "the more you depend on wild resources that you don't have to manipulate, the more anarchist you're going to be" is simply not true, as so many real world examples from anthropology and archaeology illustrate. I just don't see the evidence for this. This Cultural Materialist narrative needs to be jettisoned, since it doesn't align with the facts on the ground. There is no subsistence strategy that determines whether a society is anarchist or not, or whether a society is MORE anarchist than others.

The current world governments should not have the level of power they do. It all starts with the person being okay with following immoral rules or regulations. very interesting topic

Prepare for an insufferable & irrelevant email chain!

Why put “uncivilized” energy into the Palestinian cause when the Hadza and the Waorani are currently facing genocide?

Gonna be cool to get the Manicardi audiobook, I have the physical copy in Italian ... but I don't actually understand Italian! Really helpful, because reading the entirety of a 500~ page book in PDF form'd be kinda painful.

Truly a great episode. This strikes to the core of it all for me. Like many in the primitivist sphere, I came out of the left disillusioned with the ideas of revolution and yearning to look deeper beyond workerism and the present-day state of affairs. For so long I was (and to some degree still am) caught up in fixations on all the misery in the world of all kinds. I read incessantly about species extinction, climate disaster, the genocide of indigenous populations, the horrors of technology - the list goes on. I accumulated eclectic knowledge about events and processes that in some ways deepened my primitivist-leanings, but also cemented a monstrous inner turmoil. In recent times I decided it is well past time to stop philosophizing so much and 'formulate' a way of being in the world in the present. Anti-civilizational thinking, 'primitivism', whatever you want to call it for yourself is about finding that presentness, connectedness and clarity that lays in a freeing surrender to limitations. The realization that a relative wholeness and health is something civilized humans have been running away from for 10,000 plus years. All this is to say I have discarded my Zerzan, Camatte, and miscellaneous anti-civ and anti-technology books. They helped to orient me, but to live in a world of seemingly unending misery as a spectator is something I am done with doing. Now I am trying to have a more holistic approach to being in the world and conducting my life. I am mostly helpless as to what happens in this world. What is largely within my control is myself. That's it. I will live and die with the matter that composes my body creating new life. All those who have lived and died are still here in this regard, regardless if they were a bacteria, tree, or an indigenous person gunned down by a colonizer. With that in mind, how can I live joyously, with tranquility and with an erasure of disconnection? We do not know what the future holds, everyone is held by that immense vulnerability. I have found myself finding 'medicine for the soul' in learning more about local history, basic reskilling such as identification of plants and animals, the seasonality of wild foods. Also a couple of philosophies, namely Epicureanism and Taoism, which are great tools for helping one to live in a relative tranquility.

In my campus a Zionist professor attacked a student while another was saying racially charged stuff at a whole bunch of us (she got the race and ethnicities wrong for the most part). The university still pays the professor while he’s in leave. These acts produce paradoxical feelings in me in that they promote both the feelings of powerlessness and being powerful. There were times that I felt like could take on the whole world, but reality quickly sets in. I am not sure what I present as to people. I use a gendered name that corresponds to how I feel. But I have not yet done anything to change how I present visually.

Ok, you ended on a reasonable note. Palestinians are not getting killed off because of who they are other than the toxic ideology they embrace. Islamists can't live as equals with anyone, even other islamists.

Pandering to Muslims, I'm embarrassed for you. There is literally 2 billion of them. They are the colonizers. Islam spread by the sword.

ALL MY HOMIES HATE THE PISSY SHITTY LIBERAL PARTY

On the assertion that there is no response, I think that the reason is that everything is too big and too messed up for any proper response. The proper response to the disasters that plague our world now would have been decades, centuries, or even millennia ago. Every disaster that we face in the future has already been produced today and yesterday. Also on the note of student orgs protesting the genocide in Gaza, I think there is an impact. Locke Martin uses my university to get students to be interns and workers. Student protests got them to cancel recruitment events for now. This is of course a small thing, I understand. But I see this as one of many potential raptures if helped along. I am not saying that it will be successful but I am not going to write it off.

This has been an excellent episode. My personal project at home besides learning the basics of foraging with my friends is trying to get people to think differently. I was reading "Capital Abandon: Some Words On and Oft Inspired by Jacques Camatte" by Howard Slater for an anthropology assignment, and it got me wanting to do something about the forgetting of alternatives to capital/civilization. The idea of standard of living is a fucked up idea, because what does someone's access to an x-box, or an iphone really say about how well someone is doing? It is disingenuous, and I think that it is victim blaming. If someone who has industrial luxuries but is still miserable, they are seen as defective or ungrateful. These goods are a distraction for the emptiness and misery that civilized life forces onto people. We need to have a remembering of the ways of life that had less but were whole. Less but not from a lack, but as in I am already full with what I already have. This summer a friend and I will work to write anti-civ zines with the first one being about primitivism from two queer autistic people's perspectives. Starting on June I should be available for the disaster anthropology mobility talk if that is still on the table. If not I completely understand. Peace and Long Life.

Sure, there are other genocides going on in the world. But the one in Gaza is being directly funded and supported by the US govt. That's why there are massive protests in the US.

One frustrated worker ended up burning a billion dollar submarine. One luxury boat captain sunk a giant cruise ship. A single idiot can do more economic damage to civilization than all the actions of the ELF combined. So I agree on some of the futility of revolution. At least against civilization itself

Most of the anarcho primitivists that have gone out to live as "hunter gatherers" have lived realities more similar to pioneers. Which makes them the bridgehead for civilization. Some live totally primitive but not most. Most of the remaining wild land is not in temperate or subtropical areas. You can go north. But the further from the equator, the more lifestyle adaptations that facilitate hierarchy.

I have not finished this yet but I like the point made in reference to "Against His-Story, Against Leviathan". This abuse (civilization) is done to populations in hopes of getting them to do it to others, it is a system of abuse that spreads itself like a disease, and it repeats itself so much. The Enclosure is very similar to how the US ecocided the Bulls that Plains peoples have survived on, which is similar to what the Chilean state is doing to the Quechua in the Atacama with its water(especially post 1981), which is similar to what NAFTA was aiming to do to Mexico. I do feel very trapped in general. But I am trying to build my own connections to keep me grounded away from despair. I have friends who care about me, and although they all have different politics to me they are slowly going over to my side. One of them is a communist for example who saw anti-civ anarchy as abelist, but after talking to them enough times they no longer think that. Even though they are still communist, they are interested in engaging in rewilding with me and my other friends.

I like that she is fighting for the redwoods and is conscientious of the indigenous people and the fact that we're exploiting their lands that our ancestors took from them. However, she does expand on the subject in a way that's terribly hard to follow. While I agree that dwelling on white guilt is not a solution, but is immensely counterproductive, let's also remember that our merely being here on this soil in this civilization as it is is exploiting the land we're on. Not saying that we have to leave it, but just that she misses this point.

What a bunch of gibberish. The problem is civilization not "capitalism" or "colonialism". The indigenous where I live are way more civilized than I am. They build all sorts of industrial buildings with the bodies of the trees they slaughter.Build huge casinos ect... My allegiance is to the earth not to people who happened to be historically from here. Time to create relationships to place and move forward together.