Відео

Participation is a choice however voting for a group or person that does not line up with the word is a choice between you and God. Wor to those that call good evil, and evil good. This is not a Godly system so as Christians we are not commanded to vote. All power is of the Lord anyway….the only commandment we have is to Love God with all our hearts soul and mind….and love your neighbor. That’s the ONLY commandment all other is a choice and we will be judged on our choices…good or bad.

Great discussion. I’d just stipulate that this racist, hateful, and toxic thing isn’t Christianity. It’s worldliness pretending to be Christianity. People who are spreading hate and division need to be properly evangelized. The Bible says you are a liar if you say you love and invisible God and hate His visible image-bearers.

11:00 FACTS

This is Excellent.. Go Deep Let’s Do A Part 2 Great topic of discussion .. There’s a lot Here..I am interested we need to talk more about this more … Keep banging against the traditional church theology and doctrine That has plagued us many with subtle answers but no real solutions and conversation that may not agree with status quo’s. I would love to go deeper and discuss what inquiring minds want to know secretly but too afraid to bring to the forefront to openly discuss and disagree with diplomacy and respect each other’s opinions and differences. I am open to this can of worms opening up respectfully and laying it on the table. Let’s talk about🤗💯👏👏👏 Good Content 👊

Jesus said it: "A house divided against itself will not stand." The church thinks that means total agreement on everything. That's NEVER going to happen. By God's design really (1 Corinthians 11:19). People these days people care more about who you're voting for than how you're actually doing. Sitting down and having a cup of tea or coffee with someone is far more productive sometimes than all these theological cesspools on Twitter, Facebook etc. "Engage people". Absolutely!

It's disheartening, really. A lot of them are really not studied when it comes to scripture. What many of them have are their traditions. And even if their Bible study was up to par, the maturity levels are shockingingly low in people of age. (Hebrews 5:12-14 definitely applies). I'm always thinking: Where are the Gamaliels? People who won't just throw a scripture at you but have some wisdom for how they take action. When do we get to enjoy people again? I think those days are gone. I hope they're not, but I don't see anything to the contrary.

The apologetic points are 🔥🔥🔥

This was soooooo good guys 😃

Uh Oh Brother Allen and Sister Lessa… y’all gonna get In trouble…😂❤. You just opened up a can worms that needs to be addressed and confronted….Let’s GO!!!!👏👏👏👏💯🙌👍🤗👊

The system is set up to give you enough of the Bible to convince you that what is going on is generally biblical and keep you coming back but not to give you as much of the Bible that would enable you to accurately interpret scripture and discern God's will so that you can test what is going on around you, hold the leadership accountable and leave if they don't repent. They don't want the average Christian to be that mature because it would be the end of the congregation, and that is why they don't disciple their churches to interpret scripture and discern God's will. Yes, it is intentional because if the pastor went to seminary just to learn how to interpret scripture correctly because it was that important, then why is interpreting scripture not important enough for him to teach his congregation to do the same. So it is intentional. #stopgaslighting

Let's just keep it 💯. It's has never been an issue of access. It has always been an issue of desire. Even with all of the free resources available to study the Bible today, most Christians don't just don't care to find out those resources and learn to use them even though most pastors will not disciple them to study scripture. You are right, pastors should be discipling members to study scripture, but most of them don't for whatever reason, but it still comes down to the Christian taking it upon himself to learn how to study and if his leaders won't do it then he needs to leave.

HEY ALLEN (AND LESA). HOPE YOU BOTH ARE WELL! THERE IS SO MUCH WRONG "PERSPECTIVE" IN WHAT'S BEEN SAID; BUT I WILL JUST FOCUS ON ONE: MR. LAWSON SAID THAT THE PEOPLE ARE BEING "DISCIPLED" BY THE PASTOR'S SERMON. IN MY BIBLICAL UNDERSTANDING A SIGNIFICANT PART OF DISCIPLESHIP IS TRAINING AND MODELING IN A WAY YOUR DISCIPLES CAN DO LIKEWISE. SO A PASTOR (USUALLY SEMINARY - TRAINED), SPENDS SEVERAL HOURS A WEEK (AS PART OF HIS OFTEN PAID JOB) TO PREPARE A MESSAGE (POSSIBLY WITH POWERPOINT AND PROPS), SPEAKS IN A FORMAT THAT ALLOWS NO QUESTIONS OR INTERRUPTIONS, SPEAKS TO A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ALL AT ONCE, FROM A RAISED PLATFORM IN AN AUDITORIUM SETTING. THEN HIS MESSAGE TO HIS LISTENERS MUST BE: "DID YOU GET IT? NOW YOU GO DO THE SAME IN YOUR EVERYDAY LIVES AND CIRCLES." IT'S NO WONDER THAT MOST BELIEVERS RARELY, IF EVER SHARE THE GOSPEL WITH ANYONE. FRANCIS CHAN ASKED THE QUESTION: IS GOING TO YOUR SUNDAY GATHERING " MORE LIKE GOING TO THE GYM OR GOING TO THE MOVIES?" MUCH LOVE IN - CHRIST TO YOU BOTH! ❤ SINCERELY, STEPHEN

So I guess the ‘huddle’ became the game plan, instead of playing the game? Makes a lot of sense, did the huddle for 15+ years absolutely gobbled up my life while being ultimately pointless and empty. What a waste of time it ends up being.

"...what do I know, I'm just an expert." 🤦🏾‍♂️🙏🏾

I love this! Speak the truth!

This was great thank you. I am really grateful you critiqued this conversation. I believe there is so much wrong with it. It is my firm belief, that the primary means of Grace, is not the preacher talking to us, ( very often at us in a condescending manner, ) on a Sunday morning, though I am grateful for preachers who teach well, and truthfully. The primary means of grace is the sacrifice Christ made for us on the cross, that we may be redeemed. For some time in my Christian walk, I was lead to believe that the preacher was the principle person in the church body to teach the Word of God. I have since learned that is not true. Though God uses others to help us sort some things out, He and He alone is our greatest teacher through His Word given to us when we are alone with Him. some times He directs us to others, sometimes He sends others our way so the Holy Spirit can minister Truth to us. But often the 'preacher is not there to help us, and Sunday sermons may not meet the need of the moment. Our alone time is of primary importance over the teaching of the man behind the pulpit, This man is deluded and is giving himself and his status in the body more importance than he should actually have. The man behind the pulpit is not the worship leader. Worship should be the way each individual Christian lives their life unto The Lord every single day ----in our thankfulness, in our relationships and treatment with and of others, Christian and non Christian, in proclaiming the Gospel, in living out our faith, In our praise, in our time with and before The redeemer of our souls, and when we come together to fellowship with one another and discuss His goodness and His word. The Holy Spirit is our leader of worship, because worship should be all encompassing in our lives, To worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness. Psalm 29:2 Not just when we hear someone behind a pulpit. The chief sanctifying work in a believer is the work of the Holy Spirit. .The main statement the pulpit makes is the separation between the preacher and the congregation, and the often, in larger congregations, the inaccessibility and often super spirituality of the 'Pastor'. We would be better spending the money for the pulpit to send Bibles to those who can't afford them. @ 29:31, What he said, about how the preacher "handles the Bible, in the pulpit, on The Lord's day or through the week, is how they will go home and read the Bible". For me personally this is the most disturbing part, because this is so true, yet dangerous. The Bible does not teach us to go home and read the Bible like the preacher. Instead it exhorts us to be like the Bereans who went home and studied to see if what was being taught was true to Scripture. I fell into this trap through ignorance when I became involved in Word of Faith, Prosperity, NAR. I interpreted the Bible according to what came from the pulpit, it seemed truthful and logical to me at the time, and was preached by the 'learned' seminary taught, who obviously knew far more than I. That's why they were there and I was sitting under their teaching. I had concerns over many things, but repressed those concerns because I didn't believe I knew as much as their seminary taught selves. One day the Lord opened my eyes to something, The doctrine of do not touch God's anointed. I did a little research and study and learned how the learned had duped me, and from then on I heard sermons differently, and learned that these 'scholars' didn't get it all right. That the Holy Spirit was a better guide, and had more wisdom. It is not that I am against preaching, or teaching, far from it. But this kind of nonsense that Steve Lawson is pontificating to Costi Hinn, I now hear differently, than I would have at another time. And you brought out great points to put this whole thing into a proper perspective.

What Lawson said in the video is what I’ve heard from many priests both on the Eastern Orthodox side and the Roman Catholic side. Same function, different brands.

Fully agree.

That outro hard fam 🔥

Many of these so-called Reformed guys are theological transformers. They are Protestants when it benefits them, and they are Catholics when that benefits them as well.

Lawson sounds like a straight up Roman Catholic.

What keeps amazing me is how Costi Hinn being saved out of the WOF/ prosperity gospel, goes all the way into another misinterpretation of the gospel as a Calvinist. I don’t understand!!

Good points. I always think of the early church and the church in parts of the world where Christians are a persecuted minority.

These “Protestants” CANNOT shake that Catholic spirit. Just say the quiet part out loud Steve! The Pastor is the Pope! 😂

II Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto GOD, a workmen that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I am seminary educated and I love this video. Excellent!!

If the Apostles and/or early church fathers heard this discussion they wouldn't have any idea it's happening within the "supposed" body of Christ.

Everything he's saying is undefendable with scripture and how the early church operated.

Yep it’s putting emphasis on the “professional clergy”

Correct bro, when I was in Afghanistan they lived in mud huts still, they wouldn’t have pulpits there! So true! 🔥

Bro, I’m loving this ❤️🔥

I don't believe in voting anymore. Christ is King that's all we need to know because man will fail us

As always, I'm looking forward to this one. I'd like to recommend a series of messages here on UA-cam by Dr. Tom Wadsworth, that sheds light on and gives correct biblical insight into many of the issues you've been discussing over the past few months. It's a seven part series that covers his dissertation on "did the early church have worship services". Extremely well researched and documented. Again, thanks for all that you both are doing to further His Kingdom.

I believe there are very few "churches" that teach preach the teachings of Jesus and live them out on days other than on a Sunday. We the Church should be being faithful to God our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, not to a put together program, and have a gathering of followers of Jesus not just on Sunday❤

Dude is a 🤡

My frustration is, I'm not looking for a "perfect church" I'm just looking for a gathering of believers that operates according to the instructions we've been given in scripture and according to that metric most gatherings in America completely fail. I want to do what God said, not follow man made traditions. God's design has a purpose and if we're not modeled after his blueprint, we're not fulfilling that purpose.

There are some good churches but like you said, how are we defining church and good? What I have found the churches that are good find a way to have fellowship beyond the 2hours on Sunday, like being invited to somebody’s house for dinner, hello fellowship and biblical communion etc. or serving the community or helping people I.e. being the church. So I have found effective churches are effective outside of the 2 hours on Sunday, which begs the question: why do the 2 hours on Sunday at all? Or at least why the huge emphasis? It seems counterproductive to the overall mission, hence why Sunday mornings, in its current form, do nothing for me anymore lol 😂 just where I’m at

That football analogy of being in a perpetual huddle never running plays is 🔥🔥🔥

A lot of people have loyalties to personalities and personas, not even to the church organism. They be ret' to scratch your eyes out if you say anything about their faves. Lol! I will honor a good leader, but there's nobody I revere on that level that I'm willing to just believe. Maybe I've seen too much, and been through too much in that regard.

There are some good ones. Less and less as times go on. We're moving back to "house church" model of necessity. I think that persecution will drive the church back to that model down the line. Plus the greed and corruption of the current models, God is moving His sheep away from that; and equipping and qualifying shepherds who will be able to shepherd them in the hard times ahead. As it stands, the trust is gone out of a lot of congregations because of the amount of corruption and harm done to the body by the leaders.

Such a good discussion! Thanks for this

Amen👏👏👏🙌💯

GOD does not call us to entertainment. He calls us to ministry to transform lives and draw people unto Him. Who is Kirk trying to attract with his dancing? When he wears a dress, when he wears lipstick, when he kisses a man in the mouth, who is he trying to attract. His actions, motives, and gyrations have nothing to do with God. God is no longer in his reality. But there is hope; he can repent, transform, and return once again to God whom we have given credit for the songs of the past that I purchased, sanged, and loved, and was credited to Him.

More fire 🔥🔥🔥 I wonder if this is a matter of carnality. When spiritual things aren’t considered as real or more real than physical things, then we find ourselves chasing after the 3D version of it whatever “it” is. In this case, a leader

❤ good point imo. It's how followers of Christ Live not just only sing about. ~off topic, the music I just love, and the other music used before too sounded really good. Allen n Lesa both always look really good and especially the hair and everything. ❤

If you are waiting for a pastor to consistently, faithfully and humbly acknowledged or take accountability for his contribution to any of the problems that exist either within his church or the culture/society at large by virtue of his lack of faithfulness to scripture in any form or to extent whatsoever then you are expecting waaaay too much from them so don't hold your breath. Many of the men that we have put in church leadership have very strong and prevalent NARCISSISTIC tendencies....

👍 Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Very great discussion. Our values and terminology should always stem from the bible & we can never feel convicted based on whatever decision we make regarding this. Whether we choose to vote or not.

FYI. We see the typo. 😂

As charitably as I can possibly say this…I wouldn’t expect anything different with the podcast being titled Church Dropout. The name itself implies a lack of commitment.