"I recognize your footsteps, old man..." That moment felt like something that could have come from the actual novel. The double meaning of Paul having told Gurney on Caladan that he recognizes his footsteps, and also Paul recognizing the approach of Shai-Hulud (also known as the Old Man of the Desert). The tone, delivery, and setup all feel so authentic to Herbert's writing style. Another note, I actually liked the scene where Leto dies better in the movie than the book. In the book, the Baron doesn't get hurt, and the Duke's sacrifice felt a little wasted to me. In the movie... he almost kills the Baron, and we see the Baron suffering and needing to heal from the attack. The Duke's sacrifice felt more impactful, and even more tragic because he was so close to taking the Baron out.
It is a line that has reverberations throughout the first three books. I believe they say it in book one, and allude to it and reference all the way through Children of Dune at least.
The scene does happen in the book. The difference is it isn't Gurney's footstep's Paul recognizes, it's Thufir Hawat's. In the book Thufir wasn't only Duke Leto's mentat but also his master of Assassins, he was the one to tell Paul not to sit with his back to any doors. In the movie however, he is just a mentat, that's why it's Gurney who tells him this wisdom and remprimands Paul for carelessness.
I watched dune two times. First before I had read the book. Second time, after reading around 70% of the book. And those two and a half hours of the movie which felt so long at first watch were nothing at second watch. The ending left me wanting for more. I actually wished for it to be longer lmao.
I've read the books only after watching the movie. I was mesmerized by the film from the start and felt the desire to continue watching when the end credits rolled. I watched it two more times in the following weeks. 😅
Hearing the Kaer Morhen OST from Witcher 3 still makes me teary-eyed and homesick for a fictional place in a video game. That's how you know you have hit a deep emotional impact in your fan community. Love the Dune movie and like the Witcher show, thanks for your thoughts, largely agreed! Cheers and good day!
@@AFlyingWalrus Showrunner really hated source material. Season 2 is a disaster. Not a thing makes sense. Would be good to see your review of Witcher trilogy games. There is a four part of Witcher games but events are so distant from times in which Geralt live that I don't see it as a direct continuation. Rather a new series that occur in that universum
@@AFlyingWalrus Not only CD Projekt Red is not an only great Polish game studio, 11bit made some very good games such as Frostpunk and This War of Mine (a game in which you play as a civilian trying to survive in dreary war reality).
For me at least, there's another thing missing from Netflix's Witcher - all the cultural refrences. There's no Polish/Slavic inspired clothing or buildings, and the music doesn't feel 'Witcher' enough either. Instead, it was given this frankly overdone boring filter over most shots. It's like they tried to game-of-trons'd it all. The visual refrences were mostly played up in the games, but there's a lot of these little tid-bits in the books too. Maybe it stands out to me more since I'm a Polish person and these books were very close to me (partly) because of all the cultural refrences in them. You just don't really see them that much in popular media, so seeing them be just erased without as much as a thought hurt (especially since the christian church kinda gutted our culture and native religion when we converted, to the point where very little is known about our ancestors' way of life). The only thing really left in the show were some of the monsters which were based on Slavic folklore. The rest is just... gone.
Villeneuve is probably one of the best directors around at generating atmosphere. Those long holds on scenes that are so characteristic of Dune, Bladerunner 2049, Arrival and Sicario are what make these movies so effective at dragging you in and never letting go. I know some people find some of these movies more difficult to attach to for that very reason since it slows down the pacing, but I found those choices engrossing. You never have to guess what you should feel about a scene, and you don't have to be told it, either. The cinematography and music will tell you.
You managed to find the "wrong" of the whole film-making of the past twenty years! Literally millions of UA-camrs made videos about what´s wrong with modern films without coming even close to a result - and you made the point in 23 minutes! Well done.
I think you missed a really important moment in The Witcher 2.1 Geralt actually realizes that the Bruxa has been killing villagers and Nivelan has been protecting her and intentionally turning a blind eye.
It still misses the point of the original. It is a crucial part that the Bruxa used Nivelan, kind of a red flag in a relationship, so he turned on her. And yet she truly loved him to the bitter end, making it a real twist of the dagger. I mean the guy chose a cursed existence outside of society for love's sake, and thought it was a lie. In the series he was kind of complicit in the murders by housing the murderer, so storywise they NEEDED him and Geralt being long time friends, otherwise why save some random Witcher over the person he loves?
Knowing how Villenueve likes to construct his scenes, Kynes' book death probably would've last a good five minutes at least of him just wandering about with his monologue, so changing it was a positive decision on virtually every level for an adaptation
I do think that directors are responsible for these works,because you can see that Dune was a true passion project for everyone involved,but the Witcher seems to just pace around a lot.I love how Cavill acts out Geralt's character,but the directing just seems...not as passionate at times and the season 1 was just confusing.I would have loved it if they added 2 years ago text or something to indicate the passage of time
Considering the show runners of Witcher made a public statement about how they don’t care for the fantasy genre at all and a big portion of Denis’s directorial portfolio is sci-fi, the quality difference of the two are leagues different just with that in mind.
Its interesting to me how many people found this confusing. Not saying couldn't have done better job but I think audiences have become so passive in viewing over years. To be fair most people watching tele is there to relax and be entertain not think. But personal I hate how much hand holding is done in everything that audience really does feel like be treated like children when have to exposition everything all the time.
@@abc123tiktok I mean I understood it,but from other people I've talked to,they all agree this should have been the case.Maybe it breaks the imersion to add a bottom text,but I think they should have done it for at least the first episode bc you lose a lot of information until you realize what is going on.I agree,a lot of movies are very dumbed down and I hate it,but in this case it was somewhat necessary imo
@@poorunfortunatesoul8610 I could be wrong but maybe creators did this as creative choice on purpose to give us that big surprise different time lines that eventually intersect. I am probably more forgiving because it is TV show that is expecting people to rewatch it. So when you come back second time around you do understand it more and appreciate it with more insight. If it was a movie wouldn't be as forgiving because stories usually self contain and if they failed to explain it properly at all would get more grief for just bad writing.
I watched Dune twice and anything that I didn’t understand felt so mysterious that I was inspired to read the book and went to YT for video essays. I have since watched Dune two more times and can’t wait for the next movie. I barely finished S1 of The Witcher. It was missing something emotionally for me. I think you nailed it in this video. Nuance is missing from The Witcher.
I would like to casually say that yes the witcher has it's problems... but the real heart of the story (for me at least) will always be Geralt and Ciri's relationship. If it's not the main it is at least on the same level as the grey morals of the story. Their relationship influences him and his decisions and I honestly think they've done an excellent job showing that growth.
True. But universum is not immersing and doesn't feel real. Kingdoms polictics was badly written, promiscuity promoted. The whole piece feels like fanfiction Sapkowski's books
I still really like the show's version of the bruxa encounter honestly. You start with this absolutely delightful guy who was cursed seemingly due to a "small" mistake from years ago, that seems to have grown into a better person because of it. I forget the exact order here, but as it goes we find out that it was a true atrocity that he committed and that he's using his curse to do good by feeding the bruxa. Except that he's turning a blind eye to the fact that it isn't enough and innocent people are still being killed. So on top of the knife twist that is him killing the person he loves, we are also left wondering things like, did he really grow into a better person, was what he tried to do enough, did he deserve his fate? It may not be the same point, but it was an interesting one, unlike Blaviken where it seems they missed the point and didn't fill in the gap with anything.
Sapkowski in one interview admits that the Netflix series has nothing to do with his books that he yielded to those changes only because he needed money.
In the opening of the Wicher series 2, I remember pretty well feeling the "not knowing how to feel", because of the revelation of the reason of the curse hitting like a truck after the battle. I am surprised its not even mentionned here.
In the books we find out about the reason of the curse fairly early. Nivellen is ashamed of his past and of the actions he made. And is a big part of why he's ok with remaining a monster, because he tells Geralt he has commited a monsterous act. But they that's juxtaposed against the man he is when Geralt meets him is is now a completely different person. Wanted to say all that in the video, but sometimes things get cut due to length or video pacing
Netflix's the Witcher's problems are far too serious to be fixed with couple lines of dialogue. It could be indeed summarized by saying, that the heart of the story is missing. But even that's an oversimplification. The Netflix series can barely be called an adaption. The show is roughly 80% original material by the showrunner and the writing team. What these writers should've kept in mind, is that when you make changes to the story, you better make sure the changes are as high quality as the original story. Instead they miss the spirit and themes of the books spectacularly. Some examples: - The show is poorly written and is filled with character assassinations. * Many characters act nothing like their book counterparts. * The nuanced and well written dialogue is often replaced by characters swearing. - The world building is terrible. * You don't learn anything about the different kingdoms, their cultures, their relationships to other kingdoms. The only thing you learn, is that the people in the north are racists, bloodthirsty and genocidal towards the non-humans. * Characters travel vast distances in short period of time, and conveniently appear in key locations, when the story requires them. I think it's safe to say, that Dune succeeded, because the people behind the movie actually loved respected the source material. Aside from Henry Cavill, the team behind the Netflix series seems to care little about the Witcher.
I gave up on the witcher after episode 3. Stuff was just straying way too far from the books and it just felt like it was trying to be like game of thrones. And finding out how the first season ended definitely made not want to go back to it. They completely skipped over and changed the first meeting between Geralt and Ciri. There was also a large level of mystery to the books that the show seems to lack. When you reveal a major character plot twist that’s from the final book in the second season...you’ve done something wrong.
As somebody who has read both book series and as a massive fan of Sapkowski's world, I can safelly assume that one group has read the book that they were adapting. Other group didnt do their homework at all.
What gets me is that there's nothing inherently wrong with altering a book story for television or film (my fav example is Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, in which they gave a lot of side characters more agency than they had in the book, in addition to... removing a bunch of incest and rape that added nothing to the story and would've been unwelcome by the time the movie came out) but so many times have revisions been made that weren't needed, all seemingly because the writers or director just thought that they could improve it but didn't seem to have a reason to improve those elements. Disclaimer, it's been YEARS since I've read the Witcher books, but from what I recall they started off almost episodically, introducing a drip feed of returning characters (Ciri, Yen, Jaskier, etc.) and overarching narrative but primarily focusing on smaller self-contained stories with one-shot characters that would never return in order to show you who Geralt is and what the world is like. I think trying to do a show in the same way wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea... in the hands of a competent director/writer. It could really serve as a nice way to give the audience a window into the wider world and lore of the universe before jumping into heavy plot points like destiny and fate and even the war with Nilfgaard. But I think the writers/director didn't think they could tackle it, or maybe thought the show NEEDED to be set up that way from day one, hence that awful plot with the Voleth Meir/Baba Yaga for no reason, the altering of Yennefer's character to serve that narrative, so on and so forth. Funny, though, as so many people I've shown to who had no knowledge of the books ended up really confused by the way everything was presented, especially in the first season.
And another point in Renfri's story that they totally gloss over: She wasn't actually cursed. It was the people treating her like she was cursed that fulfilled her destiny. This is deeply connected to one of the main themes of the story! The Witcher series just always feels incomplete, like a sketch of a memory.
The cinematography and visual effects go a really long way into immersing you into the world of dune too. It's a problem books never had to deal with, because your mind has the best visual effects possible.
Not having read any of the Witcher books, I was utterly confused by ep. 1 of The Witcher's first season. Thanks for clearing up Geralt's motives. 😄 Despite the confusion season 1 was enjoyable to watch (though it took me quite some time to figure out the that they were interweaving vast timelines). Season 2 was ok, but felt a bit cheaper. The Dune movie on the other hand is a masterpiece. I've read the books only after watching the film, and I find the decisions on tightening the story very compelling. Can't wait to see Villeneuve's next chapter. I wonder if they will ever make "Messiah" into a movie though. It seems to consist mainly of inner dialogue and visions. 😅
You should watch Children of Dune, it was a 3 part mini-series made by sci-fi channel. It covers Messiah and Children of Dune. For its budget i would say it was excellent. Thats what got me into Dune in the first place.
I don't remember Percival's songs being played in Netflix Witcher. Actually there was nothing Slavic in that series. Unlike in games. Soundtrack by Percival was just as good at giving immersion to the story as John William's music was in Harry Potter
I LOVE how they made Dune. But I also LOVE The Witcher. ☺️ As someone who doesn’t play the games or read anything related haha, I guess that’s why. Actually after watching the whole video I agree with you. 🤣 that is a WHOLE LOT OF CONTEXT to leave out of The Witcher show.
Hey an open minded individual on the internet? That's not allowed? In all seriousness hope you enjoyed the video. (I also still like the show, but am just jilted by the missed potential.)
This whole "it just needed 1 scene and a few lines of dialogue" feels like the current trend with holywood about never being able to make evil or villainous powerful women
I read the Witcher books after watching the show and I was reading I kept recalling the story as being told in the show. The sheer ineptitude of the Netflix adaptation is dumbfounding. Almost as if the screenwriter had just skimmed through the book, only glancing over every other page. Unprofessional and shameful.
20:31 "I was so pissed at how they butchered this whole retelling of the story that I did not watch the rest of the season for months after I watched the first episode." I still haven't watched the rest of the season and doubt very much that I will. Season 1 left me a little skeptical, but I felt there was just enough that they had done right for me to give the show a chance, but Season 2 annihilated that good will in a hot minute. I'm also a fan of the books and games, but I'm done with the Netflix show.
You really nailed why I didn't enjoy watching the Witcher as someone who had never interacted with the IP before, whereas my boyfriend absolutely loved it (he had played the games and read the books). Any work that isn't a sequel that requires you to do homework before interacting with it is just lazy, bad storytelling, and it leaves the uninitiated audience confused and jaded.
I hate so much, when the main explanation from the director of tv series was "it is an adaptation". Yet most characters were nothing like in the books, and most importantly they rewrote stuff that made Andrzej Sapkowski work stand out from other fantasy books. And yes you need to change some stuff when adapting, but Witcher tv series is so far away from books it cant even in my mind be considered fan fiction... let alone a decent adaptation.
yea the world of the witcher in netflix felt....off. Like a fanfiction. Especially the casting of triss merigold and fringillia. Forced diversity in an adoption will make things look cheap. For dune it makes sense, because the writer mention multiple different races, so it's fine if there's a bit of race swaping there. But in the witcher universe? the author explicitly described all the character's appearances and the netflix adaption failed at it.
Hey Flying Walrus :) Found your video pretty much purely by chance, and thought I would be kind and leave a "note" so to speak. I do enjoy video essays like these, but in this video there was just too many pauses that lasted too long. As in waiting for the next line. Just something to think about. It really stood out to me after a couple minutes since it happened a lot.
I highly recommend you watching Polish Witcher series. Sapkowski was content with it. Sapkowski wasn't that content with game because it changed character of Geralt. The protagonist was supposed to feel nothing on their own only emotions of humans beings that were near him.
It's interesting to see this, as I felt like the Dune movie completely wrecked the feel of Paul as the supposed savior. In the movie it just felt like a genuine savior story, while in the book and the sequels it's kinda the opposite. More a warning against that kinda thinking than anything else.
It will be telling how the final parts are handled as Paul is set up to be a "Savior" in the first half of the book but moving forward from then on it plays with the idea of a tyrannical savior. One that brings about great change at great cost. Tries to rebuke his own teachings and becomes someone that fights against the very symbol that he created. It's a very nuanced story that I have faith in Villeneuve to tell.
@@AFlyingWalrus I feel like in the book it's very clear early on that the only reason people see him as a savior to begin with is because of millennia of religious manipulation that came before it, but it's hard to say in hindsight when this became clear to most readers as the work was misinterpreted a lot (and gained a lot of criticism when the sequels made it even clearer). Speaking of dads who like the book though, my dad is of that age where he grew up with the books and loved them, and I've never seen him so mad at a movie before. He loathed it because he felt like it was dumbed down, more about the spectacle than the politics and manipulation. I'm sure that coloured my opinion of the movie as well, especially since I didn't feel strongly about IP itself other than that I found it a bit obvious with what it preached coming from a non-religious household.
Unless there are more version of Nivellen's story floating around, then he did NOT have muddy feet after waking up and Vereena did NOT control him yet - when Geralt returns and confronts her, he states as much and comments that her singing means that she has drunk blood because her other attempts at controlling Nivellen failed. - But this is basically a minor nitpick, in everything else you are 100% right - when doing an adaptation, you need to capture the spirit of the story, its main point. The Dune did it, the Witcher games did it, the show failed miserably because it focuses on completely different themes and brings in a lot of incoherence. I liked Lesser Evil a lot, even despite that flaw which you pointed out, but after that, the show took a steep nosedive, and the director(s) cannot film a truly captivating fight or tense scene even if their life depended on it, it seems (just compare their lame striga fight with the TWI intro), and they completely lack the sense of humour that is quite essential for Sapkowski's writing.
It's interesting watching this after discussion has started coming out about Henry leaving the show due to the writers refusing to have respect for the source material, and it's sad because the show had all the elements to be it's own amazing show if they hadn't been so afraid (or perhaps too stupid to understand) the duality in each of the stories moral lesson. It did not allow the reader the luxury of being spoon fed a feeling but to be left for them to think on and consider, the world of grey.
I was both sad and left feeling incredibly vindicated when I heard he was leaving the show. And honestly good on him. It's not his responsibility to be the authenticity police on set daily. It does make me sad however since we probably won't see an honest attempt at a Witcher series or films in our lifetime now.
Terminator 3 has always stood out to me as a dumpster fire of a movie that ruined the series because it too missed the whole point. “No fate but what we make”.
I replied to someone comment, but i want to put this out there. The "Children of Dune" sci-fi channel mini-series. I thought it was excellent and in all the Dune talks and reviews it seems to get skipped over and i dont know why. Id like to hear your thoughts on it Walrus. If you havent seen it i highy recommend it. It covers Messiah and Children of Dune
The Witcher series is a classic example of the curse of hype. When there's so much hype around a project, some people involved might find they feel they don't need to put in as much effort as it deserves, simply because the fans will bring profit nonetheless the amount quality or passion in the project, at first anyway. That kind of thinking tends to lead to a slacking off on the effort owed to the thing you're working with, and overall it leads to a fumbling in ensuring correct treatment of the project or even trying to do the project in the correct way. There is such a thing as succeeding financially but failing to portray the story of how the characters work their way into the story, all the while managing to essentially portray the overall narrative. The thing is when you fail to tell the story of how the characters factor in, how they develop the story and how it develops them, the overall narrative starts to deflate due to things just seemingly becoming disconnected despite how all these things tie into each other through the whole arc of the story. You can't focus on developing narrative or characters, you have to work them into each other with how they progress the story and the world they occupy
I dropped the Witcher series too. After the episode with Calanthe (the banquet). It was infuriating. I am a big fan of the books, and that episode is nothing more than a spit on the base material. Urg.
Dune from (1984) was better than modern version. At least characters were captivating and they gave some worldbuilding. Generally it is adavised to show not tell but in case when you have such alien world like Dune I think it is a good option. Star Wars and they are not the best at story structure but I would be far more confused about the plot hadn't it been for that page long introduction. Honestly I am curious how would you compare newest Dune with Dune (1984)
I think Denis’ directing style for sci-fi is just… amazing for sci-fi, and possibly fantasy, movies. He takes great care when showcasing the worldbuilding, themes, and characters. I wouldn’t know how he would handle original material if the screenwriter only had a script and no notes about the worldbuilding, but when he has all the information of the source material, he will USE IT. I remember becoming fond of his work after watching Arrival, especially after reading the source material because the short story would be a nightmare to adapt for the average Hollywood screenwriter (props to Eric Heisserer for the amazing writing too)
My take away from this is I need to read the book. I watched season 1 and I thought it was pretty cool, but now I really want to read Andrzej Sapkowski's original novels.
The problem with The Witcher is that we get everyone's story except the Geralt. I mean the show is about the Witcher and you have a fantastic main lead, a built-in fan base. Use those things. For me, the Witcher ended with Henry Cavil.
I was constantly suggested Dune (the og 80s film) by Netflix, when one night I just thought yeah whatever something to fill my time. Sometimes I just get obsessed with a story and this film was one of them. It was weird and wayy to short to tell the whole story which is why I’m so excited about the new Dune. I love the Witcher, the books and the Witcher 3 game. So shame on Hissrich for making such a shameful job at adapting a book.
While i wasnt a fan of Blade Runner 2049, and the witcher, i firmly believe that Denis Villeneuve was the perfect person to direct this movie Its so good
There is such a thing as succeeding financially but failing to portray the story of how the characters work their way into the story, all the while managing to essentially portray the overall narrative. The thing is when you fail to tell the story of how the characters factor in, how they develop the story and how it develops them, the overall narrative starts to deflate due to things just seemingly becoming disconnected despite how all these things tie into each other through the whole arc of the story. You can't focus on developing narrative or characters, you have to work them into each other with how they progress the story and the world they occupy
The Witcher very good, Dune just boring. I have been a fan of the Sci fi fantasy genre for over 55 years and you got it wrong. Either one is entertained or not, The Witcher is entertaining, Dune not so much, but then film and TV critics and myself have never been on the same page. Ah well.
dune books and 2021 movie is something extra ordinary. but i don't consider witcher tv series as failure. it is not an strict faithful adaptation. As a series inspired by the novel with it's own spin it's more than ok. But yea, far below what the Dune 2021 had achieved.
Ok, I love Dune, huuuuuuuuge fan, loved the recent movie, but I'm here to comment on the Witcher. I've played the third game, loved it (and that's from a non-gamer), watched the show and read the first book. With that out of the way, I would say that I understand why lots of the book fans were really disappointed. Since I'm not too much into the franchise beyond what I described, I see the show as this campy adventure, much like Xena Warrior Princess. But even from the little I saw in the third game, I can tell that there's a looot of nuance missed in the show.
I would honestly not mind a campy Witcher show, lean into it, have fun with it. Almost as if it was a page from "half a century of poetry." (Dandelions recounting of their adventures) Except... The show want you to take it seriously as evidenced in the tone, the gore, nudity, subject mattet, and how the character hold and carry themselves. But it lacks the nuance and depth of the original writing and doesn't supply any more value to the story. (IE, making a change to shorten the story that makes sense and has a similar outcome. Kine's death, Yu's dialogue to the baron for example) It just hurts becasue I can see the potential, and it's so close, but just fumbles it at the last possible moment.
@@AFlyingWalrus Dandelions recounting of their adventures would be sooooo much fun! And yeah, why try to be so serious. Like, everyone wants to be GoT.. even the new GoT show :D
Do it. It's absolutely spectacular I had no idea what was going on half the time and I still loved it Make sure you either watch it with surround sound or headphones, it's ESSENTIAL Also that movie gets DARK (in terms of lighting), so watch it at night
My biggest problem with Dune 2022 and the reason I didn't like it much is that the characters and the story are very very flat. Everybody is so unidimensional and the story ends up being so shallow without treating properly its themes that when the movie ends it looks like you haven't seen anything, got anywhere. Of course the movie ends abruptly when the second act is starting, but all decisions are not fundamented on anything, unlike in the books. I saw it once before reading the book and already thought that, but after reading the book, the script seemed even worse.
@@AFlyingWalrus but was it because of school or just a pure out hobby? in middle school i couldn't even read white fang in french 😭 (i went to a french school)
Hobby. I was the quiet nerdy video game playing theater kid that danced instead of playing sports. So I read a lot as a hobby. Starting in middle school and continuing on till today.
@@AFlyingWalrus I started halfway through primary school, thanks in no small part to my awesome literature teacher who created a book club for us. Found the first chapter of The Hobbit in my textbook, and off I went.
flawed as the Witcher series is, I like how it's less of a tv show than most tv shows. How do I describe that? I could be biased cause i'm a DC fanboy and Superman is in it. But while you're watching Witcher, it is very busy being fantasy. unlike other shows where there is this tv predictability. you are right though
I am glad I have finally found someone who shares my opinion on The Witcher. It's a good show it's a bad adaption. And the changes they have made to season 2 have pissed me off so much I have yet to finish it
What people need to know is the Witcher live series is the adaptation of the BOOKS not the GAMES. Many fans came in expecting it to be an adaptation of the games, which is not. Witcher game series, especially 3, is incredibly popular but I don't see that for Dune (as a matter of fact I only seen an recent early access one of on Steam but it doesn't look very good). Dune is based off of the books and there is no other relatable sources (there's the old version of movies if you want to count those), thus the fans and film makers only have one direction to look to. If they f*ck that up, than it is quite sad. While the Witcher series has many sources, games and books, this causes a division between what film makers should do and what fans are expecting. Obviously my opinions are bias since I am a fan of both the books and Witcher series especially 3, (my god, the game is an absolute masterpiece when I saw toussiant I wished I could go live in such a place it was absolutely stunning) while I never read the Dune book(s) nor seen the movies (was it a movie or a series, idk since I don't watch it, aside from a scene on house something with an A signing a contract)
I have read through the Witcher book series 3 times. Hence why I compared the show to the book series. My disappointment with the show came with how disjointed the character motivations are in the series which stems from missing the point of the original stories.
Not an argument. Money silenced Andrzej Sapkowski. You can watch videos on YT with him greatly flattering Netflix series. Yet in his interview on Italian Luca Comics Con 2019 he said he doesn't care what will be done with heroes from Witcher books. So he probably cares only as much as they give him for copyright. Netflix is criminal because these series are national treasure. Guys from CD Projekt Red for Witcher games were awarded with Badge of White Eagle.
I don't understand the stance of thinking something is terribly written, and then unironically enjoying it. How do you think something is shit but like it? Doesn't sound like you like it because it's so bad, sounds like a genuine like. I didn't think the witcher was adapted particularly well, but I don't understand how Dune did it better. Seems like to me you just like dune better and have a stronger connection to it because your dad, and that's fine but it's not really better or worse than the witcher. One was a tv show and one was a movie, kind of hard to compare the two.
Primo, I actually have a stronger connection to The Witcher. Secundo, I enjoy parts of the show, mainly Geralt, Jasker/Dandelion/the banter. Tercio, I feel like Dune kept the heart and spirit of the original story better than the Witcher. But believe what you want.
I really dont think its fair to say the witcher failed, while parts of it are frustrating sure it is a good show. i think people were just expecting a shot for shot remake of the books which should be known by now that doesnt happen
I wasn't hoping for shot for shot. But I was hoping that the main point of the story wouldn't be lost in adaptation. For instance, just have a thug mention Tridam, have Marilka comment on, "That nasty lot is from Tridam." Geralt: "Hmm?" Marilka: "Didn't you know? They murdered a whole village just to get the Noble to come out of castle last year." Geralt: "hmmm. The Market.... Fuck...." So long as we know why the action is happening the audience doesn't feel cheated on the conclusion. The rest of the adaptation could have changed, and I would have pretty much been ok with it.
For the last time, so many fans don't vibe with it not because it's different but because it's worse. I see so many people who enjoyed the show (which, good for you) arbitrarily project this "oh you just didn't like it because it's not identical to the books" strawman notion on people who didn't to avoid engaging with their criticisms of it and at this point it's not even funny. What is even the point of an identical adaptation and why would anyone want it if it isn't going to do anything new? As a book fan I wanted Netflix to at least vaguely stick to the original story and characterization, sure, but I also wanted them to create new interesting things to go along with the old, delve into characters who didn't get as much focus in the books, explore the themes from a new angle... And what did we end up getting? Characterization that didn't feel like it recontextualizes the characters I love so much as it is replacing them with different people, emotionally resonant character arcs that made me so invested in these characters getting axed because they no longer make sense for them (or they do, but the writers decided to write them out anyways lol), clumsy and shallow dialogue (especially in S2) that doesn't communicate even a sliver of the source material's charm and eloquence, teenage boys' humor that treats cursing like it's a joke in and of itself replacing the books' witty and wonderful banter and a plot that discards a good 80% of the original storyline it's an adaptation of in favor of what felt like an excruciatingly long semi-minor video game quest. And don't get me started on how they handle themes. So many parts of the books so far with overt or subtle explorations of racism that flesh out race dynamics were completely discarded (such as the Yarpen Zigrin chapter in BoE), instead we got an entirely original, in-your-face storyline with Franchesca Findabair literally murdering human babies for shock value lmao. It's a show that feels insecure. Like it's trying too hard to prove its mettle by being different while simultaneously failing at being anywhere near good as the source material. And this is why we didn't enjoy it. None of that "you hate it because it's different" nonsense.
I, Robot, Starship Troopers, Bladerunner, and many more adaptations serve as great examples of movies that fail in adapting the source faithfully, but are still well-liked for the quality of their storytelling (or characters, or whatever else). While there are people that dislike some or all of these as adaptations, they're largely appreciated, something that can't be said of Witcher. "You just don't like it because it's different!" isn't an adequate excuse for inferior storytelling
I hated the entire Dune book series. I still think it's a great series and deserving of all the praise it has received. But the universe is dismally ugly. There is no point in Dune's six thousand years of history that I would want to live in. There is no role within Dune's society over that time period that I would want to fill. It is a supremely unappealing setting. But the themes of the series remain relevant to this day. That's why I was kind of disappointed when the movie left out one of the most profound lines of the entire first novel. Duke Leto tells his son Paul that "self interest governs all." That line sums up Dune's entire political philosophy. Even the Bene Gesserit are ultimately guided by self interest even though their definition of self interest is both broader in scope and longer in time than any of the other factions. The movie left this line out and it suffers for it.
I don't think you can convey well story from an 800 pages long fantasy book with lots of action in 1:30:00. At least it has kept its climate. Witcher series by Netflix butchered the series as you said. Percival had nothing in common with shit like Netflix Witcher. Wanna good story read books or play Witcher games
"I recognize your footsteps, old man..."
That moment felt like something that could have come from the actual novel. The double meaning of Paul having told Gurney on Caladan that he recognizes his footsteps, and also Paul recognizing the approach of Shai-Hulud (also known as the Old Man of the Desert). The tone, delivery, and setup all feel so authentic to Herbert's writing style.
Another note, I actually liked the scene where Leto dies better in the movie than the book. In the book, the Baron doesn't get hurt, and the Duke's sacrifice felt a little wasted to me. In the movie... he almost kills the Baron, and we see the Baron suffering and needing to heal from the attack. The Duke's sacrifice felt more impactful, and even more tragic because he was so close to taking the Baron out.
It is a line that has reverberations throughout the first three books. I believe they say it in book one, and allude to it and reference all the way through Children of Dune at least.
I was so sad when the Baron survived the attack, although im guessing it was intentional to tug at our heartstrings, and it executed that marvelously
The scene does happen in the book. The difference is it isn't Gurney's footstep's Paul recognizes, it's Thufir Hawat's. In the book Thufir wasn't only Duke Leto's mentat but also his master of Assassins, he was the one to tell Paul not to sit with his back to any doors. In the movie however, he is just a mentat, that's why it's Gurney who tells him this wisdom and remprimands Paul for carelessness.
I watched dune two times. First before I had read the book. Second time, after reading around 70% of the book. And those two and a half hours of the movie which felt so long at first watch were nothing at second watch. The ending left me wanting for more. I actually wished for it to be longer lmao.
I've read the books only after watching the movie. I was mesmerized by the film from the start and felt the desire to continue watching when the end credits rolled. I watched it two more times in the following weeks. 😅
@@Sturzfaktor2 I feel u. The performances, visuals and especially the ost make this movie so addicting.
Omg it was two and a half hours!? I watched dune without knowing that and it didn’t feel like it at all. I wanted it to never end 😭
I knew little of dune but had heard a lot about it.
I really got the atmosphere of it and it was mesmerizing
If only the dinner scene made it into the film. Paul really shows off his capabilities as a leader there
It’s a little unfair because Dune’s director is definitey top 5 in the business, arguably the best in the business. Netflix on the other hand…
Hmmm. True...
Can we just take a moment to appreciate how the dune movie portrayed the Voice? Absolutely phenomenal
Hearing the Kaer Morhen OST from Witcher 3 still makes me teary-eyed and homesick for a fictional place in a video game. That's how you know you have hit a deep emotional impact in your fan community. Love the Dune movie and like the Witcher show, thanks for your thoughts, largely agreed! Cheers and good day!
Actually started a modded playthough of W3 on the streaming page. To relive the game and update the graphics. Definitely took me back.
@@AFlyingWalrus Oooh nice, I think I might drop in there for a while 🙂 thanks!
@@AFlyingWalrus Showrunner really hated source material. Season 2 is a disaster. Not a thing makes sense. Would be good to see your review of Witcher trilogy games. There is a four part of Witcher games but events are so distant from times in which Geralt live that I don't see it as a direct continuation. Rather a new series that occur in that universum
@@AFlyingWalrus Not only CD Projekt Red is not an only great Polish game studio, 11bit made some very good games such as Frostpunk and This War of Mine (a game in which you play as a civilian trying to survive in dreary war reality).
For me at least, there's another thing missing from Netflix's Witcher - all the cultural refrences. There's no Polish/Slavic inspired clothing or buildings, and the music doesn't feel 'Witcher' enough either. Instead, it was given this frankly overdone boring filter over most shots. It's like they tried to game-of-trons'd it all.
The visual refrences were mostly played up in the games, but there's a lot of these little tid-bits in the books too. Maybe it stands out to me more since I'm a Polish person and these books were very close to me (partly) because of all the cultural refrences in them. You just don't really see them that much in popular media, so seeing them be just erased without as much as a thought hurt (especially since the christian church kinda gutted our culture and native religion when we converted, to the point where very little is known about our ancestors' way of life). The only thing really left in the show were some of the monsters which were based on Slavic folklore. The rest is just... gone.
Percival i tak zapewne nie chciałby być kojarzony z tą słabą produkcją. Jedynie Geralt, Jaskier i Ciri jakoś podtrzymują ten serial a reszta to dno
Villeneuve is probably one of the best directors around at generating atmosphere. Those long holds on scenes that are so characteristic of Dune, Bladerunner 2049, Arrival and Sicario are what make these movies so effective at dragging you in and never letting go. I know some people find some of these movies more difficult to attach to for that very reason since it slows down the pacing, but I found those choices engrossing. You never have to guess what you should feel about a scene, and you don't have to be told it, either. The cinematography and music will tell you.
Oh ueah and arrival, it also had his signature feel
You managed to find the "wrong" of the whole film-making of the past twenty years! Literally millions of UA-camrs made videos about what´s wrong with modern films without coming even close to a result - and you made the point in 23 minutes! Well done.
"I wanna keep enjoying Henry Cavill for as long as I can"- Huh... Who's gonna tell him?
I think you missed a really important moment in The Witcher 2.1 Geralt actually realizes that the Bruxa has been killing villagers and Nivelan has been protecting her and intentionally turning a blind eye.
yes! came to say this exactly, they added this along the old friendship between them to deepen those conflicting feelings in the end
It still misses the point of the original. It is a crucial part that the Bruxa used Nivelan, kind of a red flag in a relationship, so he turned on her. And yet she truly loved him to the bitter end, making it a real twist of the dagger. I mean the guy chose a cursed existence outside of society for love's sake, and thought it was a lie. In the series he was kind of complicit in the murders by housing the murderer, so storywise they NEEDED him and Geralt being long time friends, otherwise why save some random Witcher over the person he loves?
I loved how Denis changed Dr. Kynes, the death scene was more impactful and translated very well to screen unlike the book scene.
Knowing how Villenueve likes to construct his scenes, Kynes' book death probably would've last a good five minutes at least of him just wandering about with his monologue, so changing it was a positive decision on virtually every level for an adaptation
I do think that directors are responsible for these works,because you can see that Dune was a true passion project for everyone involved,but the Witcher seems to just pace around a lot.I love how Cavill acts out Geralt's character,but the directing just seems...not as passionate at times and the season 1 was just confusing.I would have loved it if they added 2 years ago text or something to indicate the passage of time
Considering the show runners of Witcher made a public statement about how they don’t care for the fantasy genre at all and a big portion of Denis’s directorial portfolio is sci-fi, the quality difference of the two are leagues different just with that in mind.
It really does feel like at times Geralt and Jasker/Dandelion are the only ones who care. (By that I mean Henry and Joey Batey)
Its interesting to me how many people found this confusing. Not saying couldn't have done better job but I think audiences have become so passive in viewing over years. To be fair most people watching tele is there to relax and be entertain not think. But personal I hate how much hand holding is done in everything that audience really does feel like be treated like children when have to exposition everything all the time.
@@abc123tiktok I mean I understood it,but from other people I've talked to,they all agree this should have been the case.Maybe it breaks the imersion to add a bottom text,but I think they should have done it for at least the first episode bc you lose a lot of information until you realize what is going on.I agree,a lot of movies are very dumbed down and I hate it,but in this case it was somewhat necessary imo
@@poorunfortunatesoul8610 I could be wrong but maybe creators did this as creative choice on purpose to give us that big surprise different time lines that eventually intersect. I am probably more forgiving because it is TV show that is expecting people to rewatch it. So when you come back second time around you do understand it more and appreciate it with more insight. If it was a movie wouldn't be as forgiving because stories usually self contain and if they failed to explain it properly at all would get more grief for just bad writing.
I watched Dune twice and anything that I didn’t understand felt so mysterious that I was inspired to read the book and went to YT for video essays. I have since watched Dune two more times and can’t wait for the next movie.
I barely finished S1 of The Witcher. It was missing something emotionally for me. I think you nailed it in this video. Nuance is missing from The Witcher.
"I wanna keep enjoying Henry Cavill as Geralt for as long as I can because god damn that man is a perfect casting for Geralt".... if only
I would like to casually say that yes the witcher has it's problems... but the real heart of the story (for me at least) will always be Geralt and Ciri's relationship. If it's not the main it is at least on the same level as the grey morals of the story. Their relationship influences him and his decisions and I honestly think they've done an excellent job showing that growth.
True. But universum is not immersing and doesn't feel real. Kingdoms polictics was badly written, promiscuity promoted. The whole piece feels like fanfiction Sapkowski's books
I still really like the show's version of the bruxa encounter honestly.
You start with this absolutely delightful guy who was cursed seemingly due to a "small" mistake from years ago, that seems to have grown into a better person because of it. I forget the exact order here, but as it goes we find out that it was a true atrocity that he committed and that he's using his curse to do good by feeding the bruxa. Except that he's turning a blind eye to the fact that it isn't enough and innocent people are still being killed. So on top of the knife twist that is him killing the person he loves, we are also left wondering things like, did he really grow into a better person, was what he tried to do enough, did he deserve his fate?
It may not be the same point, but it was an interesting one, unlike Blaviken where it seems they missed the point and didn't fill in the gap with anything.
Sapkowski in one interview admits that the Netflix series has nothing to do with his books that he yielded to those changes only because he needed money.
In the opening of the Wicher series 2, I remember pretty well feeling the "not knowing how to feel", because of the revelation of the reason of the curse hitting like a truck after the battle. I am surprised its not even mentionned here.
In the books we find out about the reason of the curse fairly early. Nivellen is ashamed of his past and of the actions he made. And is a big part of why he's ok with remaining a monster, because he tells Geralt he has commited a monsterous act.
But they that's juxtaposed against the man he is when Geralt meets him is is now a completely different person.
Wanted to say all that in the video, but sometimes things get cut due to length or video pacing
Netflix's the Witcher's problems are far too serious to be fixed with couple lines of dialogue. It could be indeed summarized by saying, that the heart of the story is missing. But even that's an oversimplification.
The Netflix series can barely be called an adaption. The show is roughly 80% original material by the showrunner and the writing team. What these writers should've kept in mind, is that when you make changes to the story, you better make sure the changes are as high quality as the original story. Instead they miss the spirit and themes of the books spectacularly.
Some examples:
- The show is poorly written and is filled with character assassinations.
* Many characters act nothing like their book counterparts.
* The nuanced and well written dialogue is often replaced by characters swearing.
- The world building is terrible.
* You don't learn anything about the different kingdoms, their cultures, their relationships to other kingdoms. The only thing you learn, is that the people in the north are racists, bloodthirsty and genocidal towards the non-humans.
* Characters travel vast distances in short period of time, and conveniently appear in key locations, when the story requires them.
I think it's safe to say, that Dune succeeded, because the people behind the movie actually loved respected the source material. Aside from Henry Cavill, the team behind the Netflix series seems to care little about the Witcher.
I gave up on the witcher after episode 3. Stuff was just straying way too far from the books and it just felt like it was trying to be like game of thrones. And finding out how the first season ended definitely made not want to go back to it. They completely skipped over and changed the first meeting between Geralt and Ciri. There was also a large level of mystery to the books that the show seems to lack. When you reveal a major character plot twist that’s from the final book in the second season...you’ve done something wrong.
As somebody who has read both book series and as a massive fan of Sapkowski's world, I can safelly assume that one group has read the book that they were adapting. Other group didnt do their homework at all.
Sad thing is the witcher showrunners had to read the books but they missed the point and decided that they can make it better.
What gets me is that there's nothing inherently wrong with altering a book story for television or film (my fav example is Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, in which they gave a lot of side characters more agency than they had in the book, in addition to... removing a bunch of incest and rape that added nothing to the story and would've been unwelcome by the time the movie came out) but so many times have revisions been made that weren't needed, all seemingly because the writers or director just thought that they could improve it but didn't seem to have a reason to improve those elements.
Disclaimer, it's been YEARS since I've read the Witcher books, but from what I recall they started off almost episodically, introducing a drip feed of returning characters (Ciri, Yen, Jaskier, etc.) and overarching narrative but primarily focusing on smaller self-contained stories with one-shot characters that would never return in order to show you who Geralt is and what the world is like. I think trying to do a show in the same way wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea... in the hands of a competent director/writer. It could really serve as a nice way to give the audience a window into the wider world and lore of the universe before jumping into heavy plot points like destiny and fate and even the war with Nilfgaard. But I think the writers/director didn't think they could tackle it, or maybe thought the show NEEDED to be set up that way from day one, hence that awful plot with the Voleth Meir/Baba Yaga for no reason, the altering of Yennefer's character to serve that narrative, so on and so forth.
Funny, though, as so many people I've shown to who had no knowledge of the books ended up really confused by the way everything was presented, especially in the first season.
I can say for certain the showrunner has read the books, whether she has understood them in the same way is certainly up for debate of course!
I still stand by that the only person capable of adapting The Witcher to the screen is Shinichirō Watanabe.
Dune is very much what "planetary romance" should be.
For a similar experience, you MUST read "Shogun" by James Clavell. Seriously.
And another point in Renfri's story that they totally gloss over: She wasn't actually cursed. It was the people treating her like she was cursed that fulfilled her destiny. This is deeply connected to one of the main themes of the story!
The Witcher series just always feels incomplete, like a sketch of a memory.
The cinematography and visual effects go a really long way into immersing you into the world of dune too. It's a problem books never had to deal with, because your mind has the best visual effects possible.
Not mine. It’s not the handicap you might expect, however.
"I can see hope for the show" Oof aged like milk there lol.
Yeahhhh
Not having read any of the Witcher books, I was utterly confused by ep. 1 of The Witcher's first season. Thanks for clearing up Geralt's motives. 😄 Despite the confusion season 1 was enjoyable to watch (though it took me quite some time to figure out the that they were interweaving vast timelines). Season 2 was ok, but felt a bit cheaper.
The Dune movie on the other hand is a masterpiece. I've read the books only after watching the film, and I find the decisions on tightening the story very compelling. Can't wait to see Villeneuve's next chapter. I wonder if they will ever make "Messiah" into a movie though. It seems to consist mainly of inner dialogue and visions. 😅
You should watch Children of Dune, it was a 3 part mini-series made by sci-fi channel. It covers Messiah and Children of Dune. For its budget i would say it was excellent. Thats what got me into Dune in the first place.
@@michaelharipersad9882 Loved that adaption, the sci-fi mini-series Dune and then Children of Dune was great and i rewatched it a few times.
I don't remember Percival's songs being played in Netflix Witcher. Actually there was nothing Slavic in that series. Unlike in games. Soundtrack by Percival was just as good at giving immersion to the story as John William's music was in Harry Potter
True
The Witcher portion is so funny to watch now, after everything that happened around Cavill in that show.
CDPR didn't retcon the ending of the book, it continued it. And I don't think Henry is a good Geralt at all.
I LOVE how they made Dune. But I also LOVE The Witcher. ☺️ As someone who doesn’t play the games or read anything related haha, I guess that’s why.
Actually after watching the whole video I agree with you. 🤣 that is a WHOLE LOT OF CONTEXT to leave out of The Witcher show.
Hey an open minded individual on the internet? That's not allowed?
In all seriousness hope you enjoyed the video.
(I also still like the show, but am just jilted by the missed potential.)
Witcher's Season 2 Episode 1 gave me so much hope, and then the rest of the season pulled out the rug from under me
“Ever heard the phrase ‘The book was better than the movie?’”
You’re talking to a Percy Jackson fan. Believe me… *we get it.*
An adaptation can have nothing in common with source material accept for title. Amazon's Rings of Power and Netflix Winx Saga prove that.
This whole "it just needed 1 scene and a few lines of dialogue" feels like the current trend with holywood about never being able to make evil or villainous powerful women
I read the Witcher books after watching the show and I was reading I kept recalling the story as being told in the show. The sheer ineptitude of the Netflix adaptation is dumbfounding. Almost as if the screenwriter had just skimmed through the book, only glancing over every other page. Unprofessional and shameful.
20:31 "I was so pissed at how they butchered this whole retelling of the story that I did not watch the rest of the season for months after I watched the first episode." I still haven't watched the rest of the season and doubt very much that I will. Season 1 left me a little skeptical, but I felt there was just enough that they had done right for me to give the show a chance, but Season 2 annihilated that good will in a hot minute. I'm also a fan of the books and games, but I'm done with the Netflix show.
given what they did to eskel, youre opinion is probably not going to change
@@tailsofpearls I reckon you're absolutely correct.
Yeah the adaptational quality jumps off of a cliff after the season's first episode in the most infuriating ways
I thought the quality was about the same, but I never read the books so I couldn't get mad at how they apparently made everything up.
You really nailed why I didn't enjoy watching the Witcher as someone who had never interacted with the IP before, whereas my boyfriend absolutely loved it (he had played the games and read the books). Any work that isn't a sequel that requires you to do homework before interacting with it is just lazy, bad storytelling, and it leaves the uninitiated audience confused and jaded.
Frankly most of Netflix game adaptations suck Arcane is perhaps the only case in which they did it right even better than game lore itself
I hate so much, when the main explanation from the director of tv series was "it is an adaptation". Yet most characters were nothing like in the books, and most importantly they rewrote stuff that made Andrzej Sapkowski work stand out from other fantasy books. And yes you need to change some stuff when adapting, but Witcher tv series is so far away from books it cant even in my mind be considered fan fiction... let alone a decent adaptation.
yea the world of the witcher in netflix felt....off. Like a fanfiction. Especially the casting of triss merigold and fringillia. Forced diversity in an adoption will make things look cheap. For dune it makes sense, because the writer mention multiple different races, so it's fine if there's a bit of race swaping there. But in the witcher universe? the author explicitly described all the character's appearances and the netflix adaption failed at it.
I think the best way I can express my feelings about the Witcher show is this: it's not good, I just like it.
Hey Flying Walrus :)
Found your video pretty much purely by chance, and thought I would be kind and leave a "note" so to speak.
I do enjoy video essays like these, but in this video there was just too many pauses that lasted too long. As in waiting for the next line. Just something to think about. It really stood out to me after a couple minutes since it happened a lot.
I highly recommend you watching Polish Witcher series. Sapkowski was content with it. Sapkowski wasn't that content with game because it changed character of Geralt. The protagonist was supposed to feel nothing on their own only emotions of humans beings that were near him.
I don't know if Henry Cavill is the best part of The Witcher or the only good thing about it.
Well now it's, Was the best thing and only good thing about it
@@AFlyingWalrus True.
It's interesting to see this, as I felt like the Dune movie completely wrecked the feel of Paul as the supposed savior. In the movie it just felt like a genuine savior story, while in the book and the sequels it's kinda the opposite. More a warning against that kinda thinking than anything else.
It will be telling how the final parts are handled as Paul is set up to be a "Savior" in the first half of the book but moving forward from then on it plays with the idea of a tyrannical savior. One that brings about great change at great cost. Tries to rebuke his own teachings and becomes someone that fights against the very symbol that he created. It's a very nuanced story that I have faith in Villeneuve to tell.
@@AFlyingWalrus I feel like in the book it's very clear early on that the only reason people see him as a savior to begin with is because of millennia of religious manipulation that came before it, but it's hard to say in hindsight when this became clear to most readers as the work was misinterpreted a lot (and gained a lot of criticism when the sequels made it even clearer).
Speaking of dads who like the book though,
my dad is of that age where he grew up with the books and loved them, and I've never seen him so mad at a movie before. He loathed it because he felt like it was dumbed down, more about the spectacle than the politics and manipulation. I'm sure that coloured my opinion of the movie as well, especially since I didn't feel strongly about IP itself other than that I found it a bit obvious with what it preached coming from a non-religious household.
Unless there are more version of Nivellen's story floating around, then he did NOT have muddy feet after waking up and Vereena did NOT control him yet - when Geralt returns and confronts her, he states as much and comments that her singing means that she has drunk blood because her other attempts at controlling Nivellen failed.
- But this is basically a minor nitpick, in everything else you are 100% right - when doing an adaptation, you need to capture the spirit of the story, its main point. The Dune did it, the Witcher games did it, the show failed miserably because it focuses on completely different themes and brings in a lot of incoherence. I liked Lesser Evil a lot, even despite that flaw which you pointed out, but after that, the show took a steep nosedive, and the director(s) cannot film a truly captivating fight or tense scene even if their life depended on it, it seems (just compare their lame striga fight with the TWI intro), and they completely lack the sense of humour that is quite essential for Sapkowski's writing.
It's interesting watching this after discussion has started coming out about Henry leaving the show due to the writers refusing to have respect for the source material, and it's sad because the show had all the elements to be it's own amazing show if they hadn't been so afraid (or perhaps too stupid to understand) the duality in each of the stories moral lesson. It did not allow the reader the luxury of being spoon fed a feeling but to be left for them to think on and consider, the world of grey.
I was both sad and left feeling incredibly vindicated when I heard he was leaving the show. And honestly good on him. It's not his responsibility to be the authenticity police on set daily.
It does make me sad however since we probably won't see an honest attempt at a Witcher series or films in our lifetime now.
I actually loved both series and the movies.
for me, you've revealed why I can get into a movie way more than some show
I did wonder a lot why Geralt killed Renfry, I thought for some reason he choose the old man over her, this makes so much sense.
Terminator 3 has always stood out to me as a dumpster fire of a movie that ruined the series because it too missed the whole point. “No fate but what we make”.
I replied to someone comment, but i want to put this out there. The "Children of Dune" sci-fi channel mini-series. I thought it was excellent and in all the Dune talks and reviews it seems to get skipped over and i dont know why. Id like to hear your thoughts on it Walrus. If you havent seen it i highy recommend it. It covers Messiah and Children of Dune
Never heard of it, I'll have to give it a watch.
When I saw the title I was like, wait what? The Witcher failed? lololol that shit was hella successful
Monetarily yes, but it has its shortcomings when it comes to writing.
The Witcher series is a classic example of the curse of hype. When there's so much hype around a project, some people involved might find they feel they don't need to put in as much effort as it deserves, simply because the fans will bring profit nonetheless the amount quality or passion in the project, at first anyway. That kind of thinking tends to lead to a slacking off on the effort owed to the thing you're working with, and overall it leads to a fumbling in ensuring correct treatment of the project or even trying to do the project in the correct way. There is such a thing as succeeding financially but failing to portray the story of how the characters work their way into the story, all the while managing to essentially portray the overall narrative. The thing is when you fail to tell the story of how the characters factor in, how they develop the story and how it develops them, the overall narrative starts to deflate due to things just seemingly becoming disconnected despite how all these things tie into each other through the whole arc of the story. You can't focus on developing narrative or characters, you have to work them into each other with how they progress the story and the world they occupy
this video aged well in a sad way
😞 I wish I couldn’t see it coming.
@@AFlyingWalrusBut there was also Polish series Hexer from 2002. It also had some absurds but the story overall made sense
I dropped the Witcher series too. After the episode with Calanthe (the banquet). It was infuriating. I am a big fan of the books, and that episode is nothing more than a spit on the base material. Urg.
I almost used that episode, but it made more sense to do both season openers
Its hilarious when he gets angry
its kinda like a comical kind of angry, not a dangerous and violent kinda angry
Dune from (1984) was better than modern version. At least characters were captivating and they gave some worldbuilding. Generally it is adavised to show not tell but in case when you have such alien world like Dune I think it is a good option. Star Wars and they are not the best at story structure but I would be far more confused about the plot hadn't it been for that page long introduction. Honestly I am curious how would you compare newest Dune with Dune (1984)
To this day, after reading Dune, water waste bothers me, regardless of water availability.
1. Dune writers don't hate the source material.
2. Dune writers don't have characters which are self-inserts.
I assumed Dune was about persecution and colonialism and Witcher was about racism and pushing against stereotypes
I think Denis’ directing style for sci-fi is just… amazing for sci-fi, and possibly fantasy, movies. He takes great care when showcasing the worldbuilding, themes, and characters. I wouldn’t know how he would handle original material if the screenwriter only had a script and no notes about the worldbuilding, but when he has all the information of the source material, he will USE IT. I remember becoming fond of his work after watching Arrival, especially after reading the source material because the short story would be a nightmare to adapt for the average Hollywood screenwriter (props to Eric Heisserer for the amazing writing too)
I have yet to see a Denis film I have not liked. Mainly because you can feel his passion in his work.
Hmm, haven't read the books just played the game
But I couldn't get through season 2
My take away from this is I need to read the book. I watched season 1 and I thought it was pretty cool, but now I really want to read Andrzej Sapkowski's original novels.
@1:16 Explained my appreciation for that film better than I could express😆🙌
The problem with The Witcher is that we get everyone's story except the Geralt. I mean the show is about the Witcher and you have a fantastic main lead, a built-in fan base. Use those things. For me, the Witcher ended with Henry Cavil.
Could you do the christmas movie klaus i think it gives treasure planet vibes
That's because the movie is directed by Sergio Pablos, who did the animation on Dr Doppler. That's why he looks like Jesper's fursona
oh man it aged so baaaaaad regarding Witcher....
I was constantly suggested Dune (the og 80s film) by Netflix, when one night I just thought yeah whatever something to fill my time. Sometimes I just get obsessed with a story and this film was one of them. It was weird and wayy to short to tell the whole story which is why I’m so excited about the new Dune.
I love the Witcher, the books and the Witcher 3 game. So shame on Hissrich for making such a shameful job at adapting a book.
While i wasnt a fan of Blade Runner 2049, and the witcher, i firmly believe that Denis Villeneuve was the perfect person to direct this movie
Its so good
Dude dont praise the shit series for soundtrack that isnt even its own
True Percival is a good band. It would not take part in ruining national treasure the Witcher series is. Not even for milion dollars
@@karolinakuc4783 thanl god they didnt
The witcher failed? From what universe are you from?
There is such a thing as succeeding financially but failing to portray the story of how the characters work their way into the story, all the while managing to essentially portray the overall narrative. The thing is when you fail to tell the story of how the characters factor in, how they develop the story and how it develops them, the overall narrative starts to deflate due to things just seemingly becoming disconnected despite how all these things tie into each other through the whole arc of the story. You can't focus on developing narrative or characters, you have to work them into each other with how they progress the story and the world they occupy
Games were just better
I agree, I'm also only following Netflix's The Witcher because of Henry Cavill
To this day I hate watching lawn sprinklers. More so when they start wasting water on pavement.
Which state?
PNW. Won't say where for obvious privacy reasons.
@@AFlyingWalrus oh… you too? Which side of the border?
Isn’t Dune like 800 pages long? They made you read that in middle school?
Even Hexer (2002) series is a better adaptation of Witcher
Watching Dune in the theatres was so awesome but it was so dang loud
The Witcher very good, Dune just boring. I have been a fan of the Sci fi fantasy genre for over 55 years and you got it wrong. Either one is entertained or not, The Witcher is entertaining, Dune not so much, but then film and TV critics and myself have never been on the same page. Ah well.
The witcher will be much better if is made by European
dune books and 2021 movie is something extra ordinary. but i don't consider witcher tv series as failure. it is not an strict faithful adaptation. As a series inspired by the novel with it's own spin it's more than ok. But yea, far below what the Dune 2021 had achieved.
I think reading the book beforehand was a mistake and I would have enjoyed the movie more if I hadn't
I don't think you would. The series doesn't stand on its own too much plotholes and costumes are ugly.
I have to agree with the banging music 🤣
Ok, I love Dune, huuuuuuuuge fan, loved the recent movie, but I'm here to comment on the Witcher. I've played the third game, loved it (and that's from a non-gamer), watched the show and read the first book. With that out of the way, I would say that I understand why lots of the book fans were really disappointed. Since I'm not too much into the franchise beyond what I described, I see the show as this campy adventure, much like Xena Warrior Princess. But even from the little I saw in the third game, I can tell that there's a looot of nuance missed in the show.
I would honestly not mind a campy Witcher show, lean into it, have fun with it. Almost as if it was a page from "half a century of poetry." (Dandelions recounting of their adventures)
Except... The show want you to take it seriously as evidenced in the tone, the gore, nudity, subject mattet, and how the character hold and carry themselves. But it lacks the nuance and depth of the original writing and doesn't supply any more value to the story. (IE, making a change to shorten the story that makes sense and has a similar outcome. Kine's death, Yu's dialogue to the baron for example)
It just hurts becasue I can see the potential, and it's so close, but just fumbles it at the last possible moment.
@@AFlyingWalrus Dandelions recounting of their adventures would be sooooo much fun! And yeah, why try to be so serious. Like, everyone wants to be GoT.. even the new GoT show :D
@@AFlyingWalrus My exact thoughts
Comparing a cinema level project and a netflix tv show is pretty unfair
I was afraid of watching "Dune", I saw too many terrible adaptations but now I may watch it
Do it. It's absolutely spectacular
I had no idea what was going on half the time and I still loved it
Make sure you either watch it with surround sound or headphones, it's ESSENTIAL
Also that movie gets DARK (in terms of lighting), so watch it at night
walrus, holy smokes, that was amazing.
i feel like i might have gained a couple brain cells.
and inches to my butt for sure.
dummy thicc over here.
The shields are still stupid.
Wait..Witcher failed?
almost everywhere?
Witcher s2 is mindless disaster
My biggest problem with Dune 2022 and the reason I didn't like it much is that the characters and the story are very very flat. Everybody is so unidimensional and the story ends up being so shallow without treating properly its themes that when the movie ends it looks like you haven't seen anything, got anywhere. Of course the movie ends abruptly when the second act is starting, but all decisions are not fundamented on anything, unlike in the books.
I saw it once before reading the book and already thought that, but after reading the book, the script seemed even worse.
reading dune in middle school?? MIDDLE SCHOOL?? that's like reading les misérables in middle school. I'm sorry but what?
Yeah... I was that kid. You know the one.
@@AFlyingWalrus but was it because of school or just a pure out hobby? in middle school i couldn't even read white fang in french 😭 (i went to a french school)
Hobby. I was the quiet nerdy video game playing theater kid that danced instead of playing sports. So I read a lot as a hobby. Starting in middle school and continuing on till today.
@@AFlyingWalrus it's cool. I was that kid too
@@AFlyingWalrus I started halfway through primary school, thanks in no small part to my awesome literature teacher who created a book club for us. Found the first chapter of The Hobbit in my textbook, and off I went.
flawed as the Witcher series is, I like how it's less of a tv show than most tv shows. How do I describe that? I could be biased cause i'm a DC fanboy and Superman is in it.
But while you're watching Witcher, it is very busy being fantasy. unlike other shows where there is this tv predictability. you are right though
...The Witcher failed?
From a writing standpoint in certain aspects when it comes to adapting a source material.
I am glad I have finally found someone who shares my opinion on The Witcher. It's a good show it's a bad adaption.
And the changes they have made to season 2 have pissed me off so much I have yet to finish it
It isn't as good as Witcher games and books
What people need to know is the Witcher live series is the adaptation of the BOOKS not the GAMES. Many fans came in expecting it to be an adaptation of the games, which is not. Witcher game series, especially 3, is incredibly popular but I don't see that for Dune (as a matter of fact I only seen an recent early access one of on Steam but it doesn't look very good).
Dune is based off of the books and there is no other relatable sources (there's the old version of movies if you want to count those), thus the fans and film makers only have one direction to look to. If they f*ck that up, than it is quite sad. While the Witcher series has many sources, games and books, this causes a division between what film makers should do and what fans are expecting.
Obviously my opinions are bias since I am a fan of both the books and Witcher series especially 3, (my god, the game is an absolute masterpiece when I saw toussiant I wished I could go live in such a place it was absolutely stunning) while I never read the Dune book(s) nor seen the movies (was it a movie or a series, idk since I don't watch it, aside from a scene on house something with an A signing a contract)
I have read through the Witcher book series 3 times. Hence why I compared the show to the book series. My disappointment with the show came with how disjointed the character motivations are in the series which stems from missing the point of the original stories.
Not an argument. Money silenced Andrzej Sapkowski. You can watch videos on YT with him greatly flattering Netflix series. Yet in his interview on Italian Luca Comics Con 2019 he said he doesn't care what will be done with heroes from Witcher books. So he probably cares only as much as they give him for copyright. Netflix is criminal because these series are national treasure. Guys from CD Projekt Red for Witcher games were awarded with Badge of White Eagle.
I don't understand the stance of thinking something is terribly written, and then unironically enjoying it. How do you think something is shit but like it? Doesn't sound like you like it because it's so bad, sounds like a genuine like. I didn't think the witcher was adapted particularly well, but I don't understand how Dune did it better. Seems like to me you just like dune better and have a stronger connection to it because your dad, and that's fine but it's not really better or worse than the witcher. One was a tv show and one was a movie, kind of hard to compare the two.
Primo, I actually have a stronger connection to The Witcher. Secundo, I enjoy parts of the show, mainly Geralt, Jasker/Dandelion/the banter. Tercio, I feel like Dune kept the heart and spirit of the original story better than the Witcher.
But believe what you want.
I don't care what people say, both Dune and Witcher are equally good imo
I really dont think its fair to say the witcher failed, while parts of it are frustrating sure it is a good show. i think people were just expecting a shot for shot remake of the books which should be known by now that doesnt happen
I wasn't hoping for shot for shot. But I was hoping that the main point of the story wouldn't be lost in adaptation. For instance, just have a thug mention Tridam, have Marilka comment on, "That nasty lot is from Tridam."
Geralt: "Hmm?"
Marilka: "Didn't you know? They murdered a whole village just to get the Noble to come out of castle last year."
Geralt: "hmmm. The Market.... Fuck...."
So long as we know why the action is happening the audience doesn't feel cheated on the conclusion. The rest of the adaptation could have changed, and I would have pretty much been ok with it.
For the last time, so many fans don't vibe with it not because it's different but because it's worse. I see so many people who enjoyed the show (which, good for you) arbitrarily project this "oh you just didn't like it because it's not identical to the books" strawman notion on people who didn't to avoid engaging with their criticisms of it and at this point it's not even funny. What is even the point of an identical adaptation and why would anyone want it if it isn't going to do anything new? As a book fan I wanted Netflix to at least vaguely stick to the original story and characterization, sure, but I also wanted them to create new interesting things to go along with the old, delve into characters who didn't get as much focus in the books, explore the themes from a new angle... And what did we end up getting?
Characterization that didn't feel like it recontextualizes the characters I love so much as it is replacing them with different people, emotionally resonant character arcs that made me so invested in these characters getting axed because they no longer make sense for them (or they do, but the writers decided to write them out anyways lol), clumsy and shallow dialogue (especially in S2) that doesn't communicate even a sliver of the source material's charm and eloquence, teenage boys' humor that treats cursing like it's a joke in and of itself replacing the books' witty and wonderful banter and a plot that discards a good 80% of the original storyline it's an adaptation of in favor of what felt like an excruciatingly long semi-minor video game quest. And don't get me started on how they handle themes. So many parts of the books so far with overt or subtle explorations of racism that flesh out race dynamics were completely discarded (such as the Yarpen Zigrin chapter in BoE), instead we got an entirely original, in-your-face storyline with Franchesca Findabair literally murdering human babies for shock value lmao. It's a show that feels insecure. Like it's trying too hard to prove its mettle by being different while simultaneously failing at being anywhere near good as the source material. And this is why we didn't enjoy it. None of that "you hate it because it's different" nonsense.
I, Robot, Starship Troopers, Bladerunner, and many more adaptations serve as great examples of movies that fail in adapting the source faithfully, but are still well-liked for the quality of their storytelling (or characters, or whatever else). While there are people that dislike some or all of these as adaptations, they're largely appreciated, something that can't be said of Witcher. "You just don't like it because it's different!" isn't an adequate excuse for inferior storytelling
I hated the entire Dune book series. I still think it's a great series and deserving of all the praise it has received. But the universe is dismally ugly. There is no point in Dune's six thousand years of history that I would want to live in. There is no role within Dune's society over that time period that I would want to fill. It is a supremely unappealing setting. But the themes of the series remain relevant to this day.
That's why I was kind of disappointed when the movie left out one of the most profound lines of the entire first novel. Duke Leto tells his son Paul that "self interest governs all." That line sums up Dune's entire political philosophy. Even the Bene Gesserit are ultimately guided by self interest even though their definition of self interest is both broader in scope and longer in time than any of the other factions. The movie left this line out and it suffers for it.
I don't think you can convey well story from an 800 pages long fantasy book with lots of action in 1:30:00. At least it has kept its climate. Witcher series by Netflix butchered the series as you said. Percival had nothing in common with shit like Netflix Witcher. Wanna good story read books or play Witcher games