Why Dune Was Considered Unadaptable
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- Опубліковано 29 лют 2024
- There is one thing that’s consistent about the many adaptations of Dune … some element of the story is always missing. Whether it's the original David Lynch Dune adaptation from 1984, or the current iteration of Dune from Denis Villeneuve, it seems some sacrifices need to be made to bring the novel to theaters. Denis Villeneuve may have gotten the closest, but after all these adaptations of Dune, it seems the book might be unadaptable in it's truest form.
#dune #duneparttwo #timotheechalamet #nerdstalgic
Sources:
variety.com/2016/film/news/de...
01929280/
www.slashfilm.com/556802/deni... - Розваги
I just imagine Denis saying "We choose to adapt Dune, not because it is easy, but because it is hard"
"Not because it was easy, but because it made me hard."
...no, wait...
And the son of Denis arguing: _“And other directors made bullsh*t for sport!”_
like for referencing one of my favorite speeches!
Then unnecessarily changing the second half
"It's not possible". "No, it's necessary".
I think the hardest part of adapting Dune is all of the terminology and getting an audience who didn't read the books to fully understand all of it.
Thats even hard when your reading the books
I don't know how many times I went to the glossary to get refreshers.
Yep, that was always the killer and why this opinion existed. The names of things and the names of the ideas are all so strange (kwisatz haderach..lol really) that it is rather overwhelming. Then setting up this whole invented universe where nothing is at all like Earth, or even based on earth in some long time in the future, with a McGuffin spice that then you have to describe as it is the entire reason for the fighting, then on top then get into all the politics of it all... It was just so overwhelming. It is not Star Wars good rebels bad empire.
The newest movies should really be commended for just making this comprehensible, setting aside the stunning visuals.
@@bobross1829 So, people can't get into it because it's not simple...you aren't setting a good example for people as a whole lol
@@stephengrant4841 LOL okay sure tough guy. People like complicated movies! Said no one ever
It ain't about it bein' complicated, bruh. It's 'cause it's a whole new realm with its own lingo and jargon. Gotta piece together them context clues when watchin' the flick. @@stephengrant4841
I'd say the main difficulty is with the optics. Dune is not a happy story of good guys defeating bad guys. It's a story of people having terrible things done to them and in turn doing terrible things to others.
Paul loses his father and then goes on to cripple the spice flow that enables galactic travel before overthrowing the emperor and starting a universe wide jihad in his name, his sister gets possessed and goes completely mad, then his son gets transformed into a worm hybrid and enslaves the universe to teach people the value of freedom. You try selling that story to investors.
Easy, ludes and pink Floyd music
Everyone likes a good story Mesiah. But Paul was not, just discussing the dune among friends can turn positively heated, and various interpretations everyone can have on a topic that dune explores. Love it
Yeah man, I was thinking Paul was going to be a good guy but after seeing Dune 2 i was kind of dissapointed. It was an ok movie of a bad (odd, dark) story with great cinematography. A wierd mix. If paul is ment to lead people to heaven, why is he such a dark character, and why does his mother sound possesed all of a sudden. If it was a happier story the movies would have been accepted better.
@@davidhrzenjak read the books, young blood
With today's audiences who is bombarded with the fautige cookie cutter super hero films, scifi nerd culture being mainstream and the popularity of A24, there's no better time to release a story like Dune to the masses
My sons are obsessed with Dune. If one of them does something stupid, the other one says "...as it was written." And if one of their friends hears that, he'll yell "Lisan al Ghaib!" And if one of them makes a dumb pun like pointing to a car and saying "Nissan al Ghaib," then the other son will say "...as it was driven." It's kinda funny, but kinda weird.
That's actually so funny oml 😂
Nissan al Ghaib, I'm dying XD
That's awesome if anything!
Do your kids act like the Stilgar actor "Lisan al Ghaib!"
Ok, the Nissan driven joke is gold.
The adaptations must flow.
Hollywood is afraid of original stories nowadays. The uncertainty scares them. This fear has seeped in the gaming industry as well.
@@Karlach_ Fear is the media killer.
@@Karlach_ Hollywood has been that way since the invention of the motion picture.
@@Karlach_ Fear is the media killer.
@@evertonporter7887 exactly, as if any industry is comfortable with new shit !
The thing that is hardest to adapt in dune is not the Worms or Arrakis. It is the fact that most dialogue are internal dialogues. Add to that, it is written with third-person perspective omniscient. So it's like,you're in someone's head in this sentence and then suddenly you're in somebody else's head in the next sentence. Previous dune adaptations just adapted it with heavy use of internal voices, which are never good. Denis V. on the hand just streamlines the dialog part of the book and make it short or just not adapt scenes with heavy dialogues at all(i.e banquet scene, Hawat and Jessica confrontation).
I really love the stripped back approach. I love the insane Lynch version, but this is the only way to do it for film. I think re-writing it to convert the internal monologue into dialogue and screen direction would be possible but man it'd be extremely difficult.
Bingo. Internal monologues. Philosophical meandering through spacetime. Terrible purpose. Not trying to film the unfilmable is the answer. Does make for a few contradictions though. Very hard to show the BG mask and have Jessica in internal turmoil. She came across as a wet dishrag in the first one. And the true extent of Paul's vision... and Kynes' ecological musings, along with his father's quest. Eh, it was still awesome. Amazingly awesome. I just wish I could actually get anyone to read even one book. It's absurd. Fingers crossed for the God Emperor. Also totally unfilmable. Can't wait. Just get me a ghola who can act.
@@amarissimus29 Unrelated but you put double spaces after period which is he first time I'm seeing someone do that. It looks so bizarre to my eyes
@@amarissimus29Jessica was the biggest disappointment to me. She came off weak in the first movie and unfeeling and myopic in the second movie to me. I struggled with that because in the book I did not see that at all.
@@AP-ri8we I think a lot of UK students are taught that.
“Is Dune truly unadaptable?”
The recent 2 Dune movies:
sigh
*boi*
??
So… W or L?
I’m not buying the books yet (until I get my hands on English copies lol 🇲🇽)
@@alfonsopayan09 if you love reading you’ll love dune
@@alfonsopayan09 Just find a free copy online... not that hard. The entire first book is not even 1MB in file size. But I would understand if you wanted to get a copy to bring anywhere with you.
I heard Denis is only going to make a trilogy of Dune so... Part 3 will be the last of the adaptations (as far as Messiah only). Beyond that, good luck I guess?
I hope dune 2 video is coming soon too.
&why does this video feels like it was recorded 1-2yrs ago?
WAYYYY too soon for a Dune 2 video to be coming from them. Nerdstalgic doesn't cover media that's freshly released, they do think-piece retrospectives on media well after they've been out and digested.
@@travistotleyep, they literally have "nostalgic" in their name :DD
Because Dune Part 1 came out 3 years ago and even with the mention of characters like Princess Irulan and Feyd Rautha, he did not directly comment on the casting of Florence Pugh and Austin Butler as those characters, respectively. The focus was only to be made on Dune Part 1, separate of Part 2.
i just watched dune pt 2
after seeing dune 2, so many points touched on this video are fixed or introduced in the second movie
An adaptation is not a translation. When taking a story from one medium to another it is not meant to be the same.
That’s what every director says while their adaptation burns to the ground.
An adaptation should still be able to convey the story in a way that matches the ideas in the book.
@@1320crusier
Most of the time, because it'll depend on the contents of the source material. For example, people have also said Loveceaft's stories are not easily adaptable due to the way Cosmic Horror usually purposefully tries to omit details because the spooky things are supposed to be so mind-bending that it makes some audiences go into existential dread/fear.
Also, some of his works reflected Lovecraft's dated racist/xenophobic worldviews (before he recanted them some time before his death), so there definitely isn't going to be much interest in adapting that word-for-word unless they include a lot of disclaimers in the beginning of their adaptations.
Exactly! Besides, most of the time, adaptations help with creativity that can go beyond the limitations of the source material (like how The Thing movies did for the Who Goes There short story, or The Boys show did for the original graphic novel). It's kinda like how religions, mythologies, folklore, and myths have been readapted and reinterpreted over and over throughout the centuries. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What I mean to say is that a book will never look the same as the movie made on it. It might and maybe even should feel the same. Maybe it is the world that the director is interested in and not the vibe or viceversa. But to call a book unadaptable because the director cut a scene is wild.
I've only seen Denis Villeneuve's movies, but I know that in a lot of his work, the atmosphere is most important. He has spoken on his distaste for dialogue and that shows in his work too. He prefers to show than tell, which is very movie and not very book. So when he adapts any books in the future(like rendezvous with rama), prepare for artistic choices.
Feels to me like Dune could work as a long-running TV show if you pitched it as a Game of Thrones style high-budget political thriller.
Yes, especially after the first three movies. The 3rd movie might not end off on the 2nd Dune book: Messiah, but adapt elements of the third book's story to give a definitive conclusion as opposed to… well… not spoiling what I heard about 2's ending.
There's an upcoming HBO series set 10,000 years before the birth of our protagonist, called Dune: Prophecy.
The syfy series might look cheap nowadays, but back then it was one of the highest budget and most innovative series for it's time. Children of Dune is leagues better and might be the only book 3 adaptation we get
Yeah the sci fi tv show was a pretty good adaption for being a TV show, I enjoyed it while in HS
Unsurprisingly, the more screen time you get, the better the adaptation can be. We went from 2h 17m in 1984 to 4h 50m in 2000 and now Villeneuve spends 5h 21m and he *still* cut out a lot of the plots within plots within plots. It's unlikely that we will ever see a complete adaptation.
@@DanielleBarnham yeah for the time it was passable since it was on TV, but the performances were pretty great for a rough draft of sci fi GoT lol
@danielt63 the minise4ies was a better adaptation with a shorter run time. Sorry.
It was also before Scifi Channel became Syfy, which seems to have changed a lot
Seeing Dune 2 tomorrow.
Part One was so good and Villeneuve not only chose the right parts to adapt, they were executed so well. Heard good things so far so cross fingers.
Part 2 was even better, I saw it last week and loved every second of it!
I recently re-read the book for the first time in over 15 years, and what really struck me as odd was how Herbert repeatedly has these insane build-ups to important scenes that are suddenly just over. Even the ending of the book just kind of drops on the reader out of nowhere... At least I was expecting some sort of epilogue or another scene showing the new normal in the universe instead of Paul just telling the antagonist how things are going to be from here on out. Also, that one lord or whatever his title was with incredible fencing skills gets introduced at the end as the biggest threat to Paul, and then he just chooses to not do anything. Why even introduce a character like that, especially at the end?
Funnily enough the movies have that too. Scenes just end like way faster than you expected it to.
@@freshlymemed5680 Really? I don't remember that from the first one and haven't seen the new one yet, gotta keep my eyes open for that when I go see it.
I've heard some criticism that he is not the best writer of the bunch, though he Was creative and consistent enough to envision this complex political tragedy and bring it to life, everyone admits that
Count Fenrig wasn't introduced in the end.
He's introduced in the middle, when he goes to Harkonnen planet with his wife.
Dune 2 dropped his character altogether, but kept his wife, lol
Definitely agree... but also aren't all books difficult to adapt fully. Visual mediums, like movies, are so different from books and to aid the transition items are always left out or changed to make it easier to adapt. Even the best adaptations, like Lord of the Rings, have missing or changed pieces in the visual adaptation to support the flow and viewing of the movie.
I heard Peter Jackson had to completely erase an original character from the books so yeah.
@@MollyHJohns
he dropped several characters, but it was probably the right decision for the movie.
Kind of odd that this video was published after Dune II was released lol.
Edit: Btw, I did not mean any disrespect to the video’s creator. It is a great video and good analysis. If I saw it between 2021-2023, it would feel very much on point. The majority of the video, especially in reference to the books and older adaptations are succinct and well formulated.
My one and only critique is that it came out after I saw Dune II… which addresses many of the issues raised in the discussion regarding the 2021 film. :)
Edit 2: When I first commented, the video had a different title.
Nah it's pretty perfectly timed. Dune hype is at its peak since Dune 1
@@hothi92 sure, maybe for the UA-cam algorithm. But content wise, the comments about Dune 1 feels a bit out of date for those of us who already saw Dune 2. But I get it.
@@waltsapartment-105it was planned.
@@waltsapartment-105I see your point but I'd argue that discussions about media are never outdated, just timed right or wrong. I only see discussions as outdated when the nature of the thing being discussed is ephemeral. It's no use discussing the political landscape of last month since a myriad of things could have changed between then and now. In contrast, books from 1965 wouldn't get a movie adaptation if they had nothing worthwhile to say in the current day and age.
Its almost like he looked up the premiere date and planned it. He’s lisan al gaib
Saying Dune is "Unadaptable" is a sign of weakness, it should be thrown in the middle of Arrakis desert and fed to Shai Hulud. If Cloud Atlas had been adapted into a movie surely Dune can too. It is a film making obstacle of how would you tackle the internal dialogue of the books into the medium of motion picture.
Yeah, there are ways to get around that. You could convey internal dialogue info through different means. Or you could get artsy fartsy with it like the Death Note anime, for example. People loved that series even though a big chunk of it was people simply thinking about shit.
Why would you post this video after Dune 2 came out?? Feyd Rautha was a major character in Dune 2, and this video is saying he’s book-only 😂
Dune is such a huge collection of books, but unfortunately only the first three really allow a visual adaptation. Which is such a shame, as the alter books deal with philosophical and existentialism themes that cannot be put into cinema.
I think they can adapt the fourth book, just without the majority of it. Pack it into 10 to 20 minutes.
God Emperor of Dune is the truly unfilmable book.
idk, god emperor might hit real good right now. heretics and chapterhouse i think are more action oriented. not sure id like to go into the expanded universe much but the butlerian jihad books would make a good war against the machines story that i think would make a real good popcorn flick, especially among concerns about ai right now. the conclusion books on the other hand left a bad taste in my mouth.
@@LordOfNihil oooh, I think you are right, the butlerian jihad book could be made into some pretty kick ass movies. Forgot about those...
Chapter house and heretics are amazing
I never read the book, but from all the essays about the adaptations, I have a feeling the best version would be a high budget series like Game of Thrones was. Not considering the whole thing on the last seasons...
There would need to be some kind of improv though, considering Herbert died before he could finish the story.
@@Lyendith his son has attempted to finish the story by finding manuscripts from Frank in a bank vault. the books by him and his co-author arent too bad, they capture franks story and essence well enough but dont quite match up to the prose of Franks originals themselves. Regardless, i highly recommend reading the whole main series :)
@@Lyendith what story?
I'd agree with you , but on the fact that dune isn't really action packed like GoT's novels. Ive read both series
The two films go over 5.5 hours and still you feel everywhere what stuff is missing or oversimplyfied
DUNE 2 was incredible! I think it delivers on the promises made in the first movie!
I would love to see Denis Villeneuve give his take to Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons. Adapting that one to movie would make Dune look simple.
Also Rendezvous with Rama would be amazing
Those books were insane, especially when you factor in the time of writing.
@@casedistorted wasnt there news that he would be adapting this one?
@@JRAS_ I think it was someone else, but Rama has been in development hell for decades, so it’s all just speculation
Villeneuve's interpretation (both films that form the whole) is probably about as faithful as we'll ever get, and it's already a masterpiece.
no mention of one of the 3 great powers, the spacing guild......................
He got half the personalities wrong. I’m wondering if Rebekah Ferguson’s comments about making Jessica a stronger person was based on a early draft of the screenplay? Her version is easily the weakest of any other version.
She only got girlboss after she became a reverend mother it seems@@AAblade7
@@istanformarzipan I don't think the spacing guild gets much mention in the books at this point either. They can't really operate on the ground, their power is in commerce in space.
The recent adaptation is made for a casual cinema audience
I read Dune in 1979 and after that, I thought to myself "This story is way to big and spectacular to even try to produce a movie from".
I'm glad that the attempts have been made and pleased with the results. Looking forward to seeing the new one.
I want the David Lynch 3 hour cut.
I want the David Lynch 5 hour cut
I want the Ultimate Complete Cut from 2091 in the 7 hour edition, where Harry P. Cumberbatch plays Paul Atreides and Ripley Blanchett plays Chani.
That's the movie by this new director Gandalf Gerwig, he got this undisputable talent from his grandma.
@@careypridgeonthe Spicediver cut is great. Everyone interested or who has any love for Lynch's 1984 one should see it.
@@careypridgeonyep thats a good version. there are so many cuts of lynch dune its not even funny, i think ive only seen like 5 of them.
@@MrDoctorMabuse Lynch doesn't have a 1984 version. (Read: He himself has so little love for it due to creative control struggles and studio mandate bullshit that he forced his name removed from the credits. So it's not his really on any level.)
Y’all must feel silly after Dune 2 huh 😭
Why?
@@TequilaToothpickcause they eventually including princess irulan and feyd rauther
Villeneuve's version is the best, but the 2000 miniseries holds a special place in my heart. It was my introduction to Dune. It's what brought me to the source material, and I've now read the original 6 books multiple times. Each adaptation really does have its own strengths and weaknesses. While the 1984 adaptation can be a bit weird and off-putting, and the 2000 adaptation's television budget really limits it, I wouldn't say that any of them are "bad". If nothing else, each of these adaptations has captured people's interest enough to attract them to the source material, and thus helped to keep Dune popular for generations.
Recency bias.
I finished reading dune literally hours before seeing both movies. I regret it. I wish I had either read it years and years ago so it wasn’t so fresh or never read it at all. What I loved about the book changed in the movie. But I believe only because the book was so fresh in my mind. I want to love the movies, I do. But I’m left missing my favorite parts (all the internal conflicts that are so hard to show)
How come Alejandro Jodorowsky's near attempt at Dune wasn't covered? The documentary detailing his efforts and concepts is bind-blowing!
wait what?
Because his adaptation wasn't really Dune.
@@BossRedRangerwould have been wild though. kinda like zardoz.
That is already covered well enough by others and to be blunt. It had so little to do with Dune as a concept that it doesn't even really count.
Because that Version is not dune
Always thought this was odd, i thought while reading the book it felt very cinematic and would work well as a film.
It does. You were right.
Didn't people used to say the same thing about Lord of the Rings?
Yes, and apparently they were correct. The LotR films were a terrible adaptation of the books, IMO.
@@robgronotte1 Haha😆 Yeah Right, you go ahead and keep thinking that, and I'll go ahead and continue seeing the greatest film trilogy ever made! Oh well, different strokes for different folks I guess.
@@robgronotte1 yeah bro, just wants to hate for whatever reason u want
They didn't had a guy named Hans Zimmer before
I haven’t seen “Part Two” yet since it just opened as of this writing, but I think my favorite adaptation is the Sci-fi (SyFy) miniseries. Mostly from nostalgia and the look of it, with all the colorful cinematography. I like the all though, but for different reasons.
Why wouldn't you make this video after watching Dune 2? It makes no sense as it currently stands, especially given the movie released the same day this was published (unless it's a re-upload, in which case wtf?).
Irulan and Rautha are not in part one of the novel which you emphasises was what Villineuve's film adapted so the critique for their absence makes no sense. Rautha is mentioned in passing by the Baron. Irulan has been mentioned as the Emperor's daughter once near the end of part one, other than that she introduces each chapter in quotes but with no relevant context to the narrative - bits of Arrakian history and media are being shared to the reader through quotes from her, but she is some all seeing mysterious narrator at this point. Actually its Zandaya as Chani who despite being present in the film has absolutley no trace in the part one of the novel. Her name does not appear and it's possible she's alluded to but I missed it if so.
in the book Paul has visions of a girl on Arrakis (chani)
Really enjoyed your insights, I'm a hardcore Dune fan & just love all the attention that Herbert's universe is getting. Arrakis, Dune, Desert Planet...
Lets just hope the change to the ending of part 2 doesnt make the book sequels unadaptable, because for good or bad, that was a mayor departure from The source Material
After watching part 2, but not reading the book, I personally can’t see any more than 1 more movie being any good.
I know that doesn’t say too much but just wanted to give input
@@tiinan375 After book um I think 3 or so, there's a major time skip, I mean like a thousand years or more, which largely introduces whole new casts of characters.
What I want to see is Villeneuve attempt to adapt God Emporer Of Dune. That is going to be almost impossible to bring on screen.
He’s not going to, Villeneuve sees Dune Messiah as the final book and said he doesn’t like where Herbert took the story…. So… he only has a 4 movie plan which is kinda lame
@@abbeyrussell838 Villeneuve has 3 movie plan, dune 1&2 based on the first book, and third movie will be based on Messiah
the real hangup u think is the 4000 year time jump.with only a couple characters you might recognize from the previous sequels. its also kind of stand alone so you just have to make one movie.
I just watched Dune Part Two. It was satisfying in a way that Lynch's version was not. However, I still feel that there are elements missing from the book that would have made it even better. Hopefully Dune Messiah turns out to be just as good if not better. The changes to Chani's character seem especially significant.
Yes...significantly bad.
Dune Messiah is still adaptable, but i dunno about 3rd book onwards 😅
Some element of the story is always missing in a book to film adaptation.
Stories in written media don't have to worry about budget. They can put in as many characters as they want, because the author doesn't need to hire actors to portray characters on paper. They can put in as many subplots or make the story as lengthy as they want, because authors know the user doesn't need to read the book from start to finish like how they watch a movie. All of these are privileges you do not get to enjoy if your story is told in movie or TV series format.
Time and budget. The 80s one could have been good if homeboy had been given more of both
Well, he was given both, the issue was that the producers put out a cut that was completely different and over an hour shorter than what he wanted to do.
True nuff. Same ol story. Idiot studio execs who don't know how storytelling works trying to force their own ideas into the mix
@@somejerkbag Yeah. Though, the Lynch version does have fundamental flaws because he didn't fundamentally understand what Dune was or was trying to go for. He took Paul for a literal savior, without getting the subtext behind what it was trying to tell.
I love both parts of the 2021 adaptation. Part 2 had a lot more actions, but I honestly adore the world building in part 1. The atmospheric shots with the Hans Zimmer filmscore are simply masterpieces.
The second attempt is a more monumental and yet intimate with the total darkness of the harkonens and chani to feel its not as good. I just thin its clearly as awesome in its own right. Botha these mighty movies is a real contender lol
Watching this after watching dune part 2. The first film set the final film up perfectly and ended it incredibly
Dune 2 was fking amazing
I hope Villeneuve gets to adapt RENDEZVOUS WITH RAMA
Because nobody else is more perfect than him for the job
Remember in the David Lynch one at the end with Alia, "And how can this be?! Because he is the Kwisatz Haderach!"
My favorite is Children of Dune, and God Emporer of Dune. I really hope they make them. Even if not connected to the current ones, which I don't mind, but idk I guess I don't hate them.
I hate when mainstream media talk about Paul by using words like "hero" and "good guy".
Frank Herbert felt the same way.
@@headhunter1945yeah i find it funny that Herbert felt he had to make Dune Messiah to clarify that Paul wasn’t a hero or someone to revere because tons of people misinterpreted it
The new dune is perfect and with han zimmers making music and sound effects. It just takes it to a whole new level
I didn’t even know there was gonna be a part 2 until part 1 ended in the cinemas I was so mad for a few weeks after that.
The title card says Dune:Part One. What else could you have expected 💀
@@bigsmokeI408 I never read it. Was getting comfy… even booked the tickets me… didn’t read past the Dune part xD so many films may have the film: subtitle and I just don’t read. I avoid all promotional materials for films so that played a factor.
@@WaltherPPK007 nah fam. It’s in the title card after the intro, like 3 mins into the movie 😂
But, Timothy is LISAN AL GAIB!
I really appreciated the video but I don’t think it answered the question you posed.
Why is Dune hard to adapt? The answer you gave repeatedly was… because it’s difficult.
It’s saying something that the 1984 adaptation isn’t liked and yet contributed to the 2 most iconic lines
“The spice must flow”
“He who controls the spice controls the universe”
This was posted two days ago and you're complaining that Irulan and Feyd aren't in it? Both of whom are famously in part two?
Dune Part Two helped to finish adapting the first novel, for the first time, nearly perfectly for a movie. I was so incredibly impressed by seeing Dune Part one and Part two telling the story perfectly of that first novel. Now the next two novels need to be adapted.. it will be very difficult but exciting if we get a Part Three and Part Four. Bring us the LOTR of science fiction please Dennis!
fire af edit bro
I am a fan of the sci-fi mini series and the fan made recut of the 1980’s film, where a lot of the original cut scenes are added back in. Without them too much context got lost.
Yo, The Space Driver Ultimate edit is rad af.
well pages and pages full of inner monologue and narration....it is like watching a french mime in a zen garden having a crossover with david lynch-s rabbits, kudos for an attempt
Every time the narrator says "Villa-noov", I die a little...
Dune part 2 is a masterpiece! Part 1 did much of the world builder and character development. Part 2 was able to dive right into the action.
I'm really glad Villeneuve adapted the book the way he did, and puts it as the definitive version of the material for me my mind. I personally thought that Herbert's book was tedious to read. It had no flourishes or aesthetic quality to the prose at all. So it's nice to see some artistic vision brought to this work.
In the books there's so many moving parts it's hard to tell the full story on screen. The SCI FI channel did a decent job in the early 2000's but it was a low affects budget saga. It had really good acting for it's time. The 1984 Movie tried to do it all in one showing and while it wasn't a complete failure, it fell short in story telling. The 2021 telling is allot better, but allot is still missing. But only die hard Dune fans will notice because they've read the books a bunch of times. I'm hoping for a big box office payout for the studios only because there might be more Dune movies in the future.
Anyone who has even casually read the first book will notice how little of the story is present in the new film. I can't speak for Part two but the first film barely scratches the surface of the book.
The Syfy series was so awesome lol i still rewatch it every 2-4 years
Best version there is. It had the Spice orgy.
I feel like if any creative director could make a proper Dune adaptation, it would be Yoko Taro of the Nier franchise. Yes, its a video game and not cinema, but if you've played any of his projects to the route E conclusions, you'll know exactly what I mean.
You should all do yourself a favour and watch the documentary on Jodoryosky's Dune. His vision was absolutely bonkers and would have changed history.
Salvatore Dali was to play the Emperor. Need I say more?
I’m happy it never came to fruition. That wasn’t Dune. The ambiance, the aesthetic, the themes ect. Would it have been a good movie? Probably. But it wouldn’t have been Dune. More like Dune on acid. Jodorowski even complained that Denis’s Dune was too much Dune… That’s speaks for itself.
Just a quick note on the typo on the thumbnail: you can see that the L, A and T were made by you. It’s not fitting the style of the original font used. Its actually more curvy and very light. The B was a good try but still too much effort. It could have been more simplified! The P turned out very good, even though it could use more roundness on the edges. Cool idea though keep it up
I love how we get the 2 missing characters in mocie 2
With yet another two missing.
We get speaking lines from an unnamed character who's not in the books, lots of shots of weird shaped space ships and no Count Fenring or Thufir Hawat. Refunds are in order.
1:58 WOW, he treated even his mom like that!!!! Power really went over his head. GENIUS text and surprisingly great acting, bit expressionless but the voice was wow.
the other 4 Herbert books (after Deni finishes Messiah) needs to be a series....preferably for HBO Max....
Dune? More like dune' fine, how bout yourself?
Get out.
This video has valid points until you realize it came out on the same day as Dune Part 2
I don't think any of the points he made about the unadaptability of dune go above and beyond the general loss in translation that occurs from one medium to another. The exact thing happened with Lord of the Rings; the exact same thing happens with any novel adaptation. You can't turn a book into a movie without losing anything.
I started watching the first movie because of the tik tok hype for the second movie and it’s great but Im taking a break because it’s a huge exposition dump that I don’t even really understand but since then I’ve been doing research about the franchise and I’m seeing that they could really only adapt the first 4 into movies but I want to see an adaptation of the last two books
4:45
its a shame that they dont use these as the Primary Posters for the movies but instead go for the splatering characters allover marvel like design
I agree about unadaptability. The mystical aspect ofr higher consciousness as Herbert expressed in his six books is entirely missing of translated into "magic" (like the rain Caused by Paulat the end of the 1984 movie. People don't get mysticism, and hence don't get that part of Herbert, and it/s too profound to present in a theatre in 3 hours time. Direcrtors don't understand it, people don't understand it, so out it goes. Herbert spent six years studying it in Zen Buddhuism and Universal Sufism (whose terminology her adapter freely--Lisan al Ghaib, Adab, and many many more expal;es. Even his own son Drian and hius collaborator in writing "Dune" books don't get it or (it appears) spend little or no time understanding it or writing about it. But Herbert declkared in an interview with McNeill at Calfornia Statee UNiversity Fullerron. Paraphrased, "In order to understand the Dune Universe you need someone who understand comparativer religion, because the is the universe from I derived it [the Dune Universe]." So, no religion and no mysticism = no Dune Universe. THAT's what is missing.
I think Dune could make a greally great anime series. Anime is really good at showing emotion and characters having inside thoughts. A lot of visual stuff trhat could be considered heavy handed in live action is more acceptable in animation.
Everything is better in anime form if done properly.but netflix does not have a good record.
I think adapting Dune is akin to adapting Lord of the Rings. Inevitably, something has to give, because the complexity of the written word cannot be simply lifted, whole cloth, and transposed onto film. This would be true of any really complex novel. Books and films have different strengths and pacing and each one needs to be distinct, to be successful. I love Jackson's LOTR...but the director himself will fully admit that it's not the book in itself and neither is Villeneuve's Dune, Herbert's book. But both Jackson's and Villeneuve have created excellent films. They will always exist somewhat separately from their source material, but they are worthy endeavours in their own right.
Note: It still is after seeing Dune 2... it needs a lot more explanation.
I wish I could get the SciFi series with the visual effects of the new movie. I like the old movie too but it's too limited in scope.
I love Patrick Stewart playing one of the greatest warriors in the Galaxy. LoL
And we answered the call, even having the movie on digital on day one, we went to the theater and crowdfunded part 2
Still waiting on the follow up after the second one
another book where i am truly scared to see if they ever adapt it and how is "the name of the wind", probably one of the most complex universes to adapt but amazing if done well
I did not get any answer to the question in the title. WTF. Just a breakdown of the story and how other adaptation went with it
Both those characters are in the 2nd one? What the fuck is this lol
Interesting how WB didn’t give confidence to the Matrix Trilogy either… maybe this just bares well for the fans, that will ultimately get the best out of the effort.
There could be an argument that if you had a blank cheque for a trilogy you might just postpone solving some problems in following films and end up not touching some aspect, whilst if you have to take it one by one, you take your best shot to it
The handling of THE MESSAGE was really heavy handed in Dune: part two. I don't understand what you are gushing about, it was really not "head and shoulders" above the other adaptations.
The SciFi channel is the best by far (not due to visuals, of course).
It's kinda funny how these old novel book are considered "unadaptable" Definitly because of it's creator vision or the story itself that bounded by the time and technology itself, but now i start to wonder why they're no novel that considered to be "unadaptble" Nowdays, and if there is i wonder how that "modern" Unadaptble book will be adapted to any kind of form of media in the future like an live action, animation, even anime like for example mobile suit gundam Hathaway, when Hathaway was released in the 90 the gundam creator also considered the story completely unadaptable because of it's dark and mature but as you can see now we will have a full trilogy of an anime movie but unlike DUNE gundam Hathaway never got any form of adaptation and it took more than 20 years to reach this far and the movie itself doesn't reach that "masterpiece" As dune was when the Hathaway movie wad in development the animation director shuko murasame looked at the main gundam design, XI gundam and the main villain Penelope gundam and it's other mech design from the novel and he immediately know that animating the mech design of Hathaway novel is pretty much imposible to animated in 2d so they change/modernize the design of the mechs and the character and still no one is able to animate the gundam properly and consistently after 20 years so they were forced to use cgi possibly through the entire trilogy, if 20 years is not enough then how long will it take to adapt a modern novel that'll considered unadaptable by today standard? If that kind of story will exist today that is
When I saw the original in theater they literally passed out a sheet of terms and definitions as a primer before the movie started.
This video brilliantly explores why Dune has always been deemed 'unadaptable' despite several attempts throughout cinematic history. It's fascinating to see the challenges directors face in bringing such a rich and intricate novel to the big screen.
I'm disappointed they didn't do the 3 year time jump but it's also understandable why it was condensed into like 8 months for the sake of the movie
dune was like LOTR
Peter Jackson's trilogy isn't a 1 to 1 adaptation, but it adapts all of the themes and ideas incredibly well
I hope it gets the same behind the scenes treatment
IK that this isn't likely since LOTR had filming and production of all 3 films hapopen simultaneously, but I suspect P2 and P3 have likely been produced somewhat parallel to each other
I still think it’s unadaptable. So much of Frank Herbert’s novel was glossed over or ignored. The subtlety and nuance that elevated the book was missing from the movie. I get movies need to pick and choose which information to keep and which information to discard, but it feels like part of the soul from Frank Herbert’s Dune was lost. Many of the themes from book weren’t addressed or expanded enough. I still think the movies were amazing, but they dont live up to the books.
Years ago when I first read the Dune series, I remember saying to myself "Man, they can never make THIS a movie without missing - like - 90% of the content." I still believe that.
Before watching the video, I must first protest the use of the word "Was" in its title
Noted
I think Dune is best experienced through both its movies and books.
I feel like Ender's Game suffers the same problem as Dune, especially in regards to the focus on the inner monologues. EG is very much a mind game and so much of that important aspect is cut from the film, especially the B plot with the siblings and the world politics. And then there's the rest of the book series.
I kind of wish we'd gotten a strange, 80s David Lynch style movie of that instead of the sanitized, generic-sci-fi flick we got in 2013.
well this video didn't age well, dune part 2 came out yesterday... & it's really good
Ngl I wouldn't have been mad if they ended having a part 2 AND part 3, if it meant getting more story. This doesn't change the fact that Dune 2 is really good, but yeah it did feel a little fast at times. And the whole story is only over the span of like 5 months when it should be like 3-4 years.
It gets really kinky in the later books to a point where I think a reimagining of the “canon” ending of both the Frank and Brian books is open game. It really should stay focused on the manipulation of power, the empathy of the heart, and how men ruled by their hearts make for terrible leaders but remembered as the good ones.
just watched part 2 yesterday, and i must say, what a spectacle it is! Im a big fan of good pacing, and most adaptations are ruined because studios want to deliver the whole apple to the audience and in the end ppl be biting a spoiled fruit. It demands courage and bravery to grab just enough chunck of the source material that fits into a movie experience. and i'd say, i'm glad the director choose to cut the first part of the story in more than one movie. And after watching part 2, i'd wager it would've been even better if it was a trilogy. i'm not familiar with the rest of the story, but the last act of the part 2 felt like it was streched and rushed to the end. i was already tired of being bombarded with such amazeness that i was satisfied with all i got. and then i faced the perspective of more 20 minutos to resolve all the conflict and was baffled that it actually happened. It felt rushed because in a single movie act paul solved all his strugles with the harkonen family, with his gf, with his mother, his family got the revenge they wanted, the fremen got liberated, the imperator was at his feet, his cousin killed in the duel and the planet mostly conquered. i mean, all of this conflict is a movie in itself. what MCU part one showed us is that if masterfully done, one can make one arch into many movies. and despite being satisfied, it was a missed oportunity, most probably due to studio pressure. nonetheless, i feel like the story so far is very complete. i get the dinner part, but that by now is kinda of a cliche, like Zuko in ATLA emberrasing himself on the war council and gettting himself an agni kai with his father. the old trope of the prince hero being naive. Paul is shown to learn politics, not on a silly dinner, but when his whole family got betrayed, and even then the weight of power was almost not worth it and made his choices for the ppl. greatness