Glad I’m not alone on this. I was waiting to get roasted on my comments on some of the pages on Facebook but you reiterated my exact sentiments on the situation. Kudos to those of us who aren’t afraid to speak facts. 👍🏼
Don't trip on getting roasted in Forums. Dent guys are assholes and it'll happen lol!!! I've been roasted a time or two myself, but this community is a family. What kind of family doesn't mess with each other?
No argument there! the owners and I have had personal disagreements in the past, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the excellent tools, customer service, and giving fledgling tool designers a chance! they really do an amazing service to our industry.
Spot on Jim that was super informative and I have one of the smallest collections of the above, I mean the smallest..... did I mention the smallest... haha just kidding! I need more tools and thanks for the video hope they sort it out 🇬🇧🔥🙌🏼
Sir, if you ever make it to the states, I demand that you visit me and share a beer, or tea (because I don't drink much anymore, but sure love my sweet tea)
Not entirely sure. Don't believe so but I may be wrong. Stanliner makes great tools, I just wanted to point out that these XocutioneR's were not stolen at all.
@@RealWorldPDRTraining I remember when thomas did a a few live streams on FB telling that techs are into the curved brace tools at the moment and that they also made a curved version.
Completely agree Jim. Was this not completely obvious just by looking at the tools that the executioners weren’t even close to the same tool as the stanliners?! 2 completely different tools with different uses. Not plagiarized at all. A bit of an over reaction in my opinion.
One thing I should make a point of also I’m not a fan of, and generally don’t like about the PDR tool industry, is for some to operate like there are no professional guidelines to follow, for respect and for consideration for others hard work and efforts, to help improve the industry as a whole. For some in PDR tool companies and their promoters who pump up tools to the public, they seem that it’s the Wild Wild West, and anything goes and is justified for money profits sake. Chasing potential profits ahead of the business moral compass, will get all involved off track and won’t help for the long run. There are many tool companies who try to be fair and work with a professional business focus for standard of procedures on a daily basis, and Tomas @ Stanliner Tools is in that category, without a doubt in my mind.
I’m not even disagreeing with that. I’ve been more than likely the biggest stanliner supporter, and will continue to be. The tools are amazing, the techniques are proven. This one instance I believe a mistake was made. I tried very hard to not be offensive, and not make anyone feel like I had a single negative thing to say about Stanliner. I’m the king of making mistakes. Far be it from me to hold a grudge forever or try to harm a business over one (in my personal opinion) misstep. Stanliner will forever have a place in my heart and on my tool wall. They’ve earned that 100 percent.
Rick H has the best tools in the business. All moneymakers. Hail moneymakers. No copies. Stanliner tools are luxury items that collect more dust than make you money. As for using elbows for pushing, stanliner didn’t make that up, it’s a natural move.
while I do use my Stanliner tools very often, I can't argue with the fact that Rick is putting out some of the best damn tools that money can buy these days!
@@RealWorldPDRTraining True enough. Good tools no doubt, stanliner. But I think the stanliner “technique” is a bit overblown. Two guys that trained me, from two completely different towns back in ‘94, showed me elbow pushing and rocking and dragging techniques back when pdr was primitive. I’ve worked with and split cars with Rick going back to ‘97. He’s doesn’t copy anything. And you’re right, A1 is rock solid. Good people
Well you are not a patent attorney but your views are welcomed as a third party subject matter expert. By the way with that many tools I doubt you can give the excuse of not having the right tool for the job! 😂
Dents and Dreams coming through with the most cryptic comment of the month. HAHAHAH Hi Jon! if anyone is reading this, check out the Dents and Dreams podcast (and The RWO PDR Podcast too) featuring your boy and favorite (probably) tool guru, Jon Videen
All PDR tools are created from Someone else's design, ( one example) Top Gun , was the first in incorporating tension into PDR , now ,Everyone sells and uses tension.
It’s close. At last check it was, but I haven’t made lurchases lately. I know I said it too many times, but I wanted to drive the point home that I’m not pulling this out of my ass
Also if you notice this was a lot of takes stitched together to make sure I was being “diplomatic enough” so just trying to get the point across, make it flow as well as possible. It bothered me too. But, hey is what it is
JMO . . . . too much drama in the PDR industry. If you design and make tools to sell to others, you should expect the good designs to be copied, and they maybe a perfect copy or a poor copy, or a deviation of the design, and slightly different but inspired from a previously produced tool. With no way to effectively patent a tool shape nor the metal used, you can only trade mark the logo & brand, and copyright protect the creative works. Hope everyone settles on being friends and not competitors in this very small market place, where everyone mostly knows and hopefully respects each other
Couldn’t have said it better myself. We are just dealing with bent metal here. Jon from Dent Reaper has been copied a dozen times, and always handles it pretty well. I think the way this was handled was ridiculous! Thank you for the input!
Jim I know you're close with everyone involved and now even the gang at TT. Look at it this way: if the Stanliner handle style has already been coped to other tools and these reapers general shape is another step more similar, how far is it in the future to get the rods even closer? It's inevitable. 2-3 iterations away max from being really really close. The fact is Stanliner brought their ideas to A1, A1 walked a fine line and came too close for comfort, so Stanliner is walking. I'd so the same before it gets out of hand.
Well, let’s examine this. First of all, what handle design? Rubberized t handles? Those have been around forever I don’t think stanliner can lay a claim to that. So you’re saying a general shape, even if used for entirely different purposes, even if made with entirely different metal to serve those entirely different purpose, is too close for comfort? Sounds very obvious that the Reaper Rod is actually the point of contention here, which has been available for a couple of years now. Furthermore, Stanliner agents including Kaz himself weighed in on the design elements of that tool. This wasn’t so openly and aggressively talked about in public, and didn’t become an issue until a completely seperate tool came out, which is FURTHER away from a stanliner tool. 2-3 iterations..... I take some issue with this. Largely a PDR tool has maybe 4 elements, a bend, a handle, material, tip, and diameter. So let’s make that 5 elements... let’s take a bladed door lord from Anson, if you change the location of the bend, and add a different handle, we’ve now created a sword from stanliner. 2 tweaks. From a completely unrelated tool to an almost exact replica of a sword tool in 2 small changes. I think it’s a dangerous game to stifle innovation with that line of thought. I respect your opinion Pak, but I think maybe you’re a little too close and loyal to the training you received with Stanliner. To me it seems like the majority of 3rd party viewers of this situation feels like this is completely ridiculous. The way that Stanliner approached this wasn’t even done in any kind of informed or respectful matter. Based on photos, and without any understanding (or even trying as far as I can tell) of what the tools were made for. They intentionally tried to cause harm to 3 manufacturers that never intended and clearly DID NOT copy intentionally any stanliner product. Even if one feels that these are a copy, for some reason I can’t understand. The way this was handled was absolutely classless. I love my SL tools, the same way that I love my xcalibur and Realer tools. Only one of those companies has ever intentionally tried to cause harm to the others, and it’s reasons are extremely baseless which I and many others have clearly demonstrated. I have respect for you Pak, I hope you don’t interpret a tone that isn’t there in this. It seems to me the only people who agree with SL’s actions here are SL loyalists... and not even all of them.
@@RealWorldPDRTraining It's all good I can take it. I respect you as well, you're multi-talented. You obviously take alot of pride in your work and the community you've built. I'm a nobody so I am flattered. And for the record I'm loyal AF and biased towards Stanliner. I don't fully understand everything the SL family does but I understand their side on this issue. With that being said I'll email you my reply because I don't think you want a keyboard battle on your video post. I could do it here but I think it would be lame.
Jim love your straight shooting attitude bro.. we need to tackle a few large dents together!
I'm always down! big dents are my love
Glad I’m not alone on this. I was waiting to get roasted on my comments on some of the pages on Facebook but you reiterated my exact sentiments on the situation. Kudos to those of us who aren’t afraid to speak facts. 👍🏼
Don't trip on getting roasted in Forums. Dent guys are assholes and it'll happen lol!!! I've been roasted a time or two myself, but this community is a family. What kind of family doesn't mess with each other?
A1 is amazing I just started my collection and unfortunately a tool broke within a couple months and they replaced it without question
No argument there! the owners and I have had personal disagreements in the past, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the excellent tools, customer service, and giving fledgling tool designers a chance! they really do an amazing service to our industry.
Spot on Jim that was super informative and I have one of the smallest collections of the above, I mean the smallest..... did I mention the smallest... haha just kidding! I need more tools and thanks for the video hope they sort it out 🇬🇧🔥🙌🏼
Sir, if you ever make it to the states, I demand that you visit me and share a beer, or tea (because I don't drink much anymore, but sure love my sweet tea)
Didn't stanliner also copied the arched brace tools from other companies like anson or Xcalibur? When I saw those my first tought was copycat.
Not entirely sure. Don't believe so but I may be wrong. Stanliner makes great tools, I just wanted to point out that these XocutioneR's were not stolen at all.
@@RealWorldPDRTraining I remember when thomas did a a few live streams on FB telling that techs are into the curved brace tools at the moment and that they also made a curved version.
Sick flannel
Finally someone notices!!!!!
Completely agree Jim. Was this not completely obvious just by looking at the tools that the executioners weren’t even close to the same tool as the stanliners?! 2 completely different tools with different uses. Not plagiarized at all. A bit of an over reaction in my opinion.
Let’s hope this can be smoothed over in the future.
One thing I should make a point of also I’m not a fan of, and generally don’t like about the PDR tool industry, is for some to operate like there are no professional guidelines to follow, for respect and for consideration for others hard work and efforts, to help improve the industry as a whole. For some in PDR tool companies and their promoters who pump up tools to the public, they seem that it’s the Wild Wild West, and anything goes and is justified for money profits sake. Chasing potential profits ahead of the business moral compass, will get all involved off track and won’t help for the long run. There are many tool companies who try to be fair and work with a professional business focus for standard of procedures on a daily basis, and Tomas @ Stanliner Tools is in that category, without a doubt in my mind.
I’m not even disagreeing with that. I’ve been more than likely the biggest stanliner supporter, and will continue to be. The tools are amazing, the techniques are proven. This one instance I believe a mistake was made. I tried very hard to not be offensive, and not make anyone feel like I had a single negative thing to say about Stanliner. I’m the king of making mistakes. Far be it from me to hold a grudge forever or try to harm a business over one (in my personal opinion) misstep.
Stanliner will forever have a place in my heart and on my tool wall. They’ve earned that 100 percent.
Rick H has the best tools in the business. All moneymakers. Hail moneymakers. No copies.
Stanliner tools are luxury items that collect more dust than make you money.
As for using elbows for pushing, stanliner didn’t make that up, it’s a natural move.
while I do use my Stanliner tools very often, I can't argue with the fact that Rick is putting out some of the best damn tools that money can buy these days!
@@RealWorldPDRTraining
True enough. Good tools no doubt, stanliner.
But I think the stanliner “technique” is a bit overblown. Two guys that trained me, from two completely different towns back in ‘94, showed me elbow pushing and rocking and dragging techniques back when pdr was primitive.
I’ve worked with and split cars with Rick going back to ‘97. He’s doesn’t copy anything.
And you’re right, A1 is rock solid. Good people
👍 me had had nfi..
excellent comments.
Thank you kindly
Well you are not a patent attorney but your views are welcomed as a third party subject matter expert.
By the way with that many tools I doubt you can give the excuse of not having the right tool for the job! 😂
Bahahahaha you’re right
Stanliner tools are the best for me personally
I love them myself. I just think they got this situation wrong.
PDRtool
Dents and Dreams coming through with the most cryptic comment of the month. HAHAHAH Hi Jon! if anyone is reading this, check out the Dents and Dreams podcast (and The RWO PDR Podcast too) featuring your boy and favorite (probably) tool guru, Jon Videen
@@RealWorldPDRTraining I was trying to post a link to A-1 Tool pdrtool.com but, it wouldn’t let me...🤷♂️
All PDR tools are created from Someone else's design, ( one example) Top Gun , was the first in incorporating tension into PDR , now ,Everyone sells and uses tension.
Don’t disagree with you. Most of our tools have been adapted from either older existing PDR tools or tools from the body shop world.
Do you own the largest collection of Stanliner tools in the US? Lol
It’s close. At last check it was, but I haven’t made lurchases lately.
I know I said it too many times, but I wanted to drive the point home that I’m not pulling this out of my ass
Also if you notice this was a lot of takes stitched together to make sure I was being “diplomatic enough” so just trying to get the point across, make it flow as well as possible.
It bothered me too. But, hey is what it is
Just mess’n. Great video and explanation.
JMO . . . . too much drama in the PDR industry. If you design and make tools to sell to others, you should expect the good designs to be copied, and they maybe a perfect copy or a poor copy, or a deviation of the design, and slightly different but inspired from a previously produced tool. With no way to effectively patent a tool shape nor the metal used, you can only trade mark the logo & brand, and copyright protect the creative works. Hope everyone settles on being friends and not competitors in this very small market place, where everyone mostly knows and hopefully respects each other
Couldn’t have said it better myself. We are just dealing with bent metal here.
Jon from Dent Reaper has been copied a dozen times, and always handles it pretty well. I think the way this was handled was ridiculous! Thank you for the input!
Jim I know you're close with everyone involved and now even the gang at TT. Look at it this way: if the Stanliner handle style has already been coped to other tools and these reapers general shape is another step more similar, how far is it in the future to get the rods even closer? It's inevitable. 2-3 iterations away max from being really really close. The fact is Stanliner brought their ideas to A1, A1 walked a fine line and came too close for comfort, so Stanliner is walking. I'd so the same before it gets out of hand.
Well, let’s examine this. First of all, what handle design? Rubberized t handles? Those have been around forever I don’t think stanliner can lay a claim to that. So you’re saying a general shape, even if used for entirely different purposes, even if made with entirely different metal to serve those entirely different purpose, is too close for comfort? Sounds very obvious that the Reaper Rod is actually the point of contention here, which has been available for a couple of years now. Furthermore, Stanliner agents including Kaz himself weighed in on the design elements of that tool. This wasn’t so openly and aggressively talked about in public, and didn’t become an issue until a completely seperate tool came out, which is FURTHER away from a stanliner tool.
2-3 iterations..... I take some issue with this. Largely a PDR tool has maybe 4 elements, a bend, a handle, material, tip, and diameter. So let’s make that 5 elements... let’s take a bladed door lord from Anson, if you change the location of the bend, and add a different handle, we’ve now created a sword from stanliner. 2 tweaks. From a completely unrelated tool to an almost exact replica of a sword tool in 2 small changes. I think it’s a dangerous game to stifle innovation with that line of thought.
I respect your opinion Pak, but I think maybe you’re a little too close and loyal to the training you received with Stanliner. To me it seems like the majority of 3rd party viewers of this situation feels like this is completely ridiculous.
The way that Stanliner approached this wasn’t even done in any kind of informed or respectful matter. Based on photos, and without any understanding (or even trying as far as I can tell) of what the tools were made for. They intentionally tried to cause harm to 3 manufacturers that never intended and clearly DID NOT copy intentionally any stanliner product. Even if one feels that these are a copy, for some reason I can’t understand. The way this was handled was absolutely classless. I love my SL tools, the same way that I love my xcalibur and Realer tools. Only one of those companies has ever intentionally tried to cause harm to the others, and it’s reasons are extremely baseless which I and many others have clearly demonstrated.
I have respect for you Pak, I hope you don’t interpret a tone that isn’t there in this. It seems to me the only people who agree with SL’s actions here are SL loyalists... and not even all of them.
@@RealWorldPDRTraining It's all good I can take it. I respect you as well, you're multi-talented. You obviously take alot of pride in your work and the community you've built. I'm a nobody so I am flattered. And for the record I'm loyal AF and biased towards Stanliner. I don't fully understand everything the SL family does but I understand their side on this issue.
With that being said I'll email you my reply because I don't think you want a keyboard battle on your video post. I could do it here but I think it would be lame.