Why the F.I.R.E. Movement Isn’t Sustainable
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
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Gotta admit, being 40 years old with a $2 million net worth is phenomenal work. You did it, my guy! If you feel stressed, scale back slightly - you’re doing great.
Yes he need to just relax. No need to spend your mid years killing yourself. It’s ppl out here with real problems
In Seattle (where the caller is based, as am I), you're a little ahead, but that's it. Here, the median house is inching towards $1M. If you got in at a lower price, that's fine, but if you're getting in today, that means you only have at best $1M in investment assets to count towards retirement. Middle class here, using the 2/3 - 2x median income definition, is $80-$240k/year. Assuming you making on the higher end of that range, lets say $200k, you're at 5x income @ 40 years old. At that income+age, you should ideally have at least ~4x income saved for retirement by then (the higher your income, the higher these targets become due to social security being less of a contributor to retirement).
So, being 1x income ahead is nice, but you're not doing that much better than what you should be doing. Now, compared to how most people save, this is amazing, but most people are way behind on their retirement savings, so I don't consider than a meaningful comparison.
He doesn’t really have a 2 million net worth cuz he owes a lot of money still on those houses and we don’t kno if he has any of debts or not
Ya and he actually earned it all himself. Now though he needs to enjoy his family, he needs to slow down and do just 9-5. It's nice to be rich but kids will choose you being there over an extra house.
@@littleripper312 the best leg up you can give your adult kids isn't your own money.
It's a financial education and moderately low rate (sat 80% market value or so) renting them living space in your own home to them and investing that money in a fund for them until the day comes they have to move for reasons that aren't you.
Giving them that time buffer (ideally at least ten years, but the length of that buffer is up to them) without having to line someone else's pocket (but forcing them to build fiscal responsibility as a landlord charging rent) is HUGE for their financial future.
At 63, I retired TO a part-time job that I love and feel productive at!!! It is not stressful like my full-time job was and for sure I have more FREE TIME to hang out with my other retire friends
For sure !!! I am retiring next yr at 55 with 3 houses paid off worth 4.5 million . One is my place of residence the other 2 properties will give me $80,000per/yr rent . I will have an income stream of $20,000 per yr through my super which gives me total $100,000 a yr to live comfortably . I have no debts
That is so amazing, I’m trying to get onto the housing ladder at 40. I wish at 55 I will be testifying to similar success..
What I think everyone need is an adviser, who can help you get in and out of any investment at any time and you'd sure be in Profit. With this I feel anyone can basically achieve financial freedom.
Opportunities comes infrequently, Investing saves more than saving, Invest now to achieve financial Independence. I engage on different sectors with becky lou gordon
Opportunities comes infrequently, Investing saves more than saving, I engage on different sectors with
Becky
lou
gordon
"It isn't sustainable" is the entire point. You do it intensely for a while so you don't have to do it forever.
Exactly how long is a while though? 2yrs? 5yrs? a decade?
@@foxhound34 was about 10 years for me. You'd have to be investing a shi*t load or getting very lucky to do it in 2! It's not for everyone though. You'd obviously have waay more disposable income if you spend 50 years saving for retirement than if you try do it in 10 or less.
@rudolphteperberry3888 I'll be happy to retire at 55. I don't really want to work myself to death, just to get an extra few years of retirement, knowing I will most like be "working" while in retirement.
@@foxhound34 Indeed individual cases are so different, just need to find the balance that works for you ✌
This caller is illustrating a real phenomenon in the FIRE community - many people have trouble enjoying their money. They work and work and work and save and save and save for 20 years with not much else in between, and it becomes ingrained in their head. Then they retire at 40 and have a real tough time changing their attitude around money - spending it stresses them out. Not everyone faces this problem but many like the caller do
The point of pursuing FIRE is to avoid being a slave to your job.
This guy is a slave to his jobs.
He's not pursuing FIRE, in the way most people pursue FIRE.
hes addicted to work.
When you achieve Financial Independence but forget to Retire Early, you are doing F.I.R.E. wrong.
That's not what FIRE is. Technically, I am financially independent. But I am want to keep working. FIRE gives you choices to move to a different career or quit your job if you don't don't like it. Or you can take a sabbatical year and go back to work.
I’m pro-FI but not RE
@@mikezerker6925 me too. I do like the idea of sabbatical years or taking 6 months off every now and then. When you are F.I., it gives you so many options.
F.I.R.E. is inherently wrong. The only worthy bit is the the F.I.
@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 I don't agree, but I respect your opinion. If you want to retire early and travel the world or do volunteer work. Go for it. I like the F.I. part. And taking time off every few years.
FIRE is not the problem here, the problem is this guy himself...
He got addicted to stacking cash. Weird problem to have.
200 percent. I could tell from the second he started talking he is the kind of person who works 3 jobs and never shuts the fuck up about it
@@bensheard3969😂😂😂 now now he works 4 jobs now so you must listen to his pain
I needed to hear this. I've achieved a level a wealth, but I'm still running from poverty.
It's better than running toward poverty and not realizing it, like most Americans.
That’s better than becoming wealth and then living far beyond your means. 👏🏾👏🏾
Not the worst problem to have.
Same, which is why iv scaled back.
Me too
This man needs to stop working three jobs. He already admits he's getting sick, and he's neglecting his family. He'll end up dying early and will never make retirement - all for naught.
or possibly divorced if his wife feels like he's neglecting her or the kids.
He has done impressively though. Time to dial back a bit
its an addiction, it's a stronger addiction than a drug addiction. I am in a similar situation as this poor fellow, there is no way out.
I need to kno what the 3 jobs are cuz how does he had 3 jobs but only work 12 hours a day? I do that at my one job. I think and I could be wrong. He’s including being a landlord as a job which it is in a sense but it’s not.
Exactly. I work at least 10 hours a day on one job, and it kills me to always hear everyone relate their work to "40 hours a week"
I have friends who are retired. Their lifestyles are more modest than mine but when they get sick and don't have to worry about going into the office I'm envious of them. Also retirement in FIRE isn't about ending work, it's about ending mandatory work.
I dont have to work when im sick...what kind of backwards stuff is that...i get like 3 weeks sick time a year
Exactly. I'm looking at retiring from Tech to someplace overseas and working in alternative healing / spiritual modalities and slow traveling. It's not about not working, it's about doing what you want without the stress and hassle of building a nest egg and riding the hamster wheel simultaneously for the long term.
@@canadianjatti most Americans have to work when sick
You're not retired if you're still working. You people love to make us useless acronyms
@@fusionreaperIt's barista fire 😎
FIRE movement is still burning strong 🤷♂️
Yep, I watch videos and take online classes from these "retired" people all the time
Yep I’m still doing it but I only work 1 job and take time out for myself. It’ll take me longer but it won’t destroy my health. Goal is to get to enjoy being wealthy not seeing my wealth from a hospital bed.
We are fire, in a we are Sparta voice
FI-RE it is being free to create your own path without sacrificing your loved ones and your life, even if this means having to work even after the age of 35.
Those with high salaries can retire at 30/35 years of age.
FIRE is essentially the same thing Dave preaches about Gazelle intensity and Beans & rice. This guy just went overboard and neglected his family.
Sometimes when you hit that intensity it’s hard to slow back down
But gazelle intensity refers to paying off debts, not intensity straight from baby step 1 to baby step 7.
I agree, Dave just can't admit his whole philosophy is basically FIRE with slight twist.
@aleksanderilic5346 it's not. You're grossly exaggerating.
@@aleksanderilic5346 The only similarity in the baby steps to FIRE is step 2. Everything else is completely different. FIRE advises people to make as much money as possible and save 50% or more of your income. Dave recommends you save 15% of your income and live within your means.
The big problem I have with FIRE is exactly this guy's situation - he's so focused on saving for this "better" life tomorrow that he's missing out on life now. Which is a terribly stupid way to live life because there is NO GUARANTEE that he'll live to see all his work pay off! Add to that missing time with kids who will never be the same age they are now again and FIRE to me just sounds like a good way to miss out on what's really important in life.
Dave disliking FIRE is like two almost identical spidermen fighting each other. It’s so close to his own values, set goals and sacrifice to be sustainably happy with a reasonable lifestyle of your own creation, but he can’t stand the teeny tiny differences.
There’s a drastic difference between HAVING TO work to survive and having savings. Daves plan is more a 60 year retirement than 35-40
@@DT-tp6vmDave makes a very good point about FIRE. There are extreme FIRE proponents that don’t build a life for the senses, all they do is count pennies and think that they can’t live a life until they have reached their FIRE number
Dave has never suggested that you should sacrifice having a life so you can build a financial portfolio. That’s sociopathic. It’s not a tiny difference. This dude is throwing away the experience of raising his children so he can maximize his investments. No amount of money can buy back that time. Daves whole philosophy is about freeing yourself from debt so you can live your life freely, not enslaving yourself to building the biggest pile of gold at the expense of having a life. You’ve completely missed the point.
Dave wants you to live like fire for a year or two to get ahead. To live your entire 20-40s like this is not the way to live. Get your debt paid be smart with money and enjoy life. People who want to not work haven’t had long periods off. It is boring and depressing. The type of job that makes enough to do fire you can get a decent job with those skills.
@@cawheeler27no, that's exactly what he recommends. Beans and rice, gazelle intense. Ring any bells?
It’s only unsustainable when you believe in an 8% withdrawal rate
🤣🤣
This gets the best comment award
This isn't proof that FIRE doesn't work or burned out. This is 100% proof FIRE works lol. Dude's 40 with 2 million net worth, sounds to me he's ready to retire early, free lance, and spend time with his family.
Yup. He needs to chill and relax now.
You can’t eat your net worth. If he wanted to sell all the houses and cash out retirement savings with taxes and penalties to live off then it might
@@DBS472 or he could freelance, as I suggested, and start cash flowing from his investments instead of constantly reinvesting the money. Hell he could quit two of his 3 jobs and just work a normal salary, Max IRA and reduce his 401k to company match if he needs more income each money. The point is if he has been saving 100k per year right now, he can easily take back some of his time and still be financially set, which is the entire purpose of the FIRE movement.
@@DBS472oh dang, you’re a moron, that’s too bad…😢
The point was sustainability. If you can hack it maybe it's good. If you wreck your life in the process not so much.
Everybody has problems with the concept of subjectivity
Our economy struggling with uncertainties, housing issues, foreclosures, global fluctuations, and pandemic aftermath, causing instability. Rising inflation, sluggish growth, and trade disruptions need urgent attention from all sectors to restore stability and stimulate growth.
With the US dollar losing value to inflation and other currencies gaining traction, uncertainty looms. Yet, many still trust in the Dollar's perceived safety. Worried about my $420,000 retirement savings losing value, I seek alternative security for my money.
With my demanding job, I lack time for investment analysis. For seven years, a fiduciary has managed my portfolio, adapting to market conditions, enabling successful navigation and informed decisions. Consider a similar approach.
this is definitely considerable! think you could suggest any professional/advisors i can get on the phone with? i'm in dire need of proper portfolio allocation
Just research the name Angela Lynn Schilling. You’d find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment.
I appreciate it. After searching her name online and reviewing her credentials, I'm quite impressed. I've contacted her as I could use all the help I can get. A call has been scheduled.
I was growing wealth well, then lost everything, everything, including my health. I became homeless.
Now, I depend on my daughter for housing. I can’t change my health issues, but I know wealth is not the key to life. I am content with what God has blessed me.
If you don't mind me asking, how did you lose everything financially after growing wealth?
@Westcoastguy If insurance doesn't cover anything for whatever excuse they come up with, american healthcare can all too easily cost you everything. Suppose that may have happened as for many people unfortunately.
...illness induced poverty...?...
...oh thanks god...such wonderful "blessings"...
That’s pathetic you’re dependent on your daughter and you’ve given up. Keep leaching off you’re daughter I’m sure that’s a good idea
@@user-mf4gz3sp1qliving in america and other alike developed countries, still enjoying the best living conditions in the world
He did reach FIRE; just didn’t know when to let off the gas, so the numbers do work.
I hated this response. I would have much preferred they walk through the numbers with him like they do with other callers. They barely even let him speak!
Which job provides benefits and pays the best? If that was your only job, what would you make? What do the rentals make? Is that enough to pay the mortgages on your rental properties? Etc.
Thank you. They didn’t ask any important questions to his income. How much was owed on all the properties not just the 3 rentals. Nothing about any other debts, nothing.
They desperately want to push the "FIRE doesnt work" narrative.
yes, his response was terrible. It was like don't have any aspirations like me and make loads of money and get super rich. We don't know anything about the cashflow these properties are producing. Or if he took any spare cash and paid them off, how much cashflow would they then generate. How much is his expenses? If he's burned out could he move to another location and live of the cashflow and then spend 7 days a week with his family if he wanted to?
My mother was a super saver and retired when she turned 50... she has ZERO REGRETS and we had plenty of family time. She was a medical doctor though and frugal, so she didn't have to work 2 jobs etc.
Uuaaaauuu congratulations to your mom. This is where I want to be when I turned 50. Right now I'm 36 and I'm 50% of FI hope to get full FIRE within 10 years and retire between 50 to 55 maximum 😊.
Saw the video’s name and said “oh that’s going to piss some people off 😂” lol
Same. I was like "i HAVE to see this one" lol
Some people get triggered when you lie to them.
I think about half of us are clicking for that, popcorn ready over here, who wants some 😂 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿
Salty FIRE boys rise up
@@Saixjacketnom nom nom
Dave's correct on this one. Being a millionaire doesn't mean you live a life of leisure. I've got a net worth of around $3M I have zero debt. I also go to work every day. I do spend more money on wants than I did when I was 20. But there's no private jet, I have two Fords in the driveway, I might take one or two trips (3-4 days each) a year. But overall my lifestyle hasn't changed much. But I do rest easy knowing that if I lost my job or decide to do something else, that it wouldn't ruin me financially. But yeah, being a millionaire in 2024 is not the same thing as being a millionaire in say 1955.
You don't feel like you can retire with that net worth? is all your NW wrapped up in a house where you can't generate income from it?
@@jasonw8497 That’s my thought as well. A 4% withdrawal rate on $3M is $120k/year indefinitely unless most of the NW is in none interest accruing assets. Even then, a $1M home paid for home with $2M in the market is still $80K/year. I’m not sure your lifestyle, but I could easily retire with that and take a few reasonable trips a year, eat out semi-regularly, and work only if I felt like it.
100%
@@jasonw8497 3 million is a safe investment account is only going to make you around 90k a year because generally you can only rely on a 3% rate of return if you want a really low risk account. No way in hell I woul retire on 9k a year. Then again, I do not think I will retire until I am a billionaire which based on my math and compound interest I would nto hit until I am 100 years old. By that point we will have trillionaires in the world lol.
@@jasonw8497 Speculation here but typical real world numbers from my experience: $3M net worth means he probably has $1M in non-liquid assets and $2M in investments and savings. $2M gets you about $80k a year in income if you follow the 4% rule. To obtain $3M net worth for retirement at say age 55 or 60 you probably make well over $80k a year. Closer to $200k a year for most probably. I'm making a lot of assumptions here again. So if you want to retire financially similar to how you have lived while working on that $200k income, you need $4M or so in investments but you could reduce that a little by accounting for no longer paying a mortgage, investing etc.... I'm sure you know this but laying it out often explains things. I personally want to retire financially better than I am while working.
Health comes first. Without health, you’re just wasting your time
Health is wealth, especially in the U.S.A
Hes got 3 jobs and 3 rental houses, he needs to pick his favorite of each, drop everything else, have no debt and go forward.
Ok, I had to Google "FIRE movement." Honestly, I regret not jumping all over that when I was in my early 20s. This guy has made it financially. He needs to ring that bell and focus on his family, especially his kids, while he's still got plenty of good years left. I'd love to be in his position right about now.
Yes this a very good place to be really. I'm 36 and halfway of Financial Independence, I don't even need to save any dime and my money will compound so I can be full FI within 10 years. I'm taking ease now from my 9-5 and started enjoying life more with my husband. I'm taking international trips every 4 months and I'm loving it. I would say all those years of being frugal so I would save/invest was worth it.
EVERYTHING in life requires moderation and balance
Except alcohol! Drink up!
Being the child of an amazing man who was also a workaholic, boy, I'd love to hear from his kids and his wife...
To Matt - Sell one or two of your houses now, pay off the first two houses. Then take a well-deserved vacation with your family. Give yourself some grace, and be the superdad for your wife and kids.
Yup. Sell the houses. Take the cash and buy ETFs. Houses are not immediately liquid. If rates are high and you can’t find a buyer then what? I’m speaking from experience. You’d never have a problem immediately getting paid for selling shares of VOO. Also VOO pays dividends and is NEVER late and never ever needs a repair or a renter. 📈> 🏠 for the most headache free way to build wealth.
From paying for day care and college, to managing mortgage payments. I'm approaching retirement yet the economy is getting worse. How can I generate more income to retire with at least $1m for long term care? I have about 80k in savings.
We share common goal, making sure you are ready for your later years is very important. I'd suggest you consider financial advisory.
@@CurbalnkYou're right, I and a few Neighbors in Bel-Air Area work with an advisor who prefers we DCA across other prospective sectors. Instead of a lump sum purchase, Following this, my portfolio grew by close to 30% in the last quarter.
I've experimented with a few over the past years, but I've stuck with the popularly ‘’Jennifer Leigh Hickman” for about five years now, and her performance has been consistently impressive. She’s quite known in her field, look her up.
I have a 900k NW. I'm 38 years old. House is paid off worth 200k and fully renovated/ very energy efficient. I can sell covered calls each month on my portfolio to fund my low expenses and not touch my investments. Now I'm starting a part time business. I am DONE with corporate America. FIRE works and I am living proof.
I'm around 500k-600k in investments (mainly stocks). I hope to be where you are someday. 👍
I retired at 52, sold my paid for house, took that money, spent half on a condo in Mexican beach town, invested the other half in stocks, selling covered calls and collecting dividends covers my living expenses, I will be collecting a pension in 3 years, have an IRA, other investments
@drewj4297 I'm 41 and have the same plan. What town in MX if you don't mind me asking?
@@Deltron6060 Puerto Vallarta
$200k? Where do you live Nebraska? Or is it just really small. No house is worth under $700k where I live.
I wish I learned about FIRE when I was 20. I’d be retired by now. They teach you to go to school, then work for 40 years and retire when you’re an elderly person. So I’ll have maybe 10 years to enjoy my elder life before I croak.
Who taught you that? Your teachers literally said this? What are their names and school district?
Pretty sure it was your parents
@@zybard01society teaches this.
Your wrong on this particular matter Dave.
The capitalist economy rings you dry then let's you stand aside since it costs more to keep you working than you make corporations.
Half of people who make it to 65 will live past 85. If you’re a healthy, non overweight, non smoker at 65 your average life expectancy is closer to 90. So you’ll have 20-25 years to enjoy your retirement. 20 years is a real lot of time for hobbies when you don’t have many other responsibilities to worry about
🚨 Honey alert! Dave called him honey! 🚨 🤣🤣🤣🤣
He didn’t call me honey when I called in. Lol.
It was cute 🥰
I retired early. Best decision I’ve ever made.
What’s early and what do you do now?
@@reese85 I retired at 58 and now I do anything and everything I want on my own timetable. It’s incredibly liberating.
@@cato451Lol 58??? Isn't that just called... Retired?
@@cato451congrats
I’ll be retired before 40. I love the FIRE movement but most people won’t follow through with it
As a nurse who works with acutely sick people. Enjoy your time. Don’t focus all on money and retirement. Spend time with your family. You don’t know what tomorrow brings
The easiest way to tell the difference between a million and a billion is that a million seconds is 12 days, a billion seconds is 31 years
WOW!!!! I’ve never ever heard that. Amazing perspective 😮
FIRE is not supposed to be sustainable. You are supposed to work your @$$ off in your 20's so that you have the freedom to do what you want later in life.
It's not even about that. It's more about saving a crapton and not spending on stupid crap that made Dave Ramsey go bankrupt. People seem to be incapable of nuance. They think FIRE means working 168 hours a week and retiring at 32. It doesn't. To me I think anyone who can retire before 59.5 is FIREing. Dave just gets jealous of people who don't have to work.
FIRE worked for me. I quite working at 50. I have not worked in 10 years and still have a 3 million net worth, 2 pensions checks every month and social security coming in a few years.
Work sucks. I never had a job that I liked and will never work again. Life is too short to waste.
If you think work sucks, nothing works for you. The irony of your last sentence is you are now wasting your life
Why Is Deloney automatically assuming that he’s afraid of going home? Dude can’t help himself from turning every call into an “are you safe”-situation
Well … your reaction exemplifies the problem. There’s some reason the guy’s not going home. I don’t think JD thinks anyone’s going to physically abuse the guy, but that the guy is incapable of emotional connection to his wife and children. And maybe if someone asks this guy to think about why he doesn’t want to go home, he can grow and stop making excuses. You may be one of those dudes who thinks growth is for wusses or that men should get to a certain point in their psychological and emotional development and just stop - usually around age 12. But other people want to live full meaningful lives. You should feel free to be your best tween self.
When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.
As soon as he made that comment I stopped listening
Caller: The sky is blue.
Baloney: ***Long dramatic pause*** Are you safe?
😂😂
Retirement means assuming a new role, it doesn't mean to entirely stop working and earning.
My goal is to instead of "Retire Early", is instead to only work on things that I love.
Work is healthy for the soul, but choose the work you love.
A lot of us in the FIRE movement still have balance and are with our families. If I take my son to the park instead of a trampoline park (and save the money) I feel just fine about it. No clue why Dave is against fire. He is looking at the extremes.
Balancing home and work life is not always easy.. I understand what this guy is feeling
My wife has this problem. Financially, we are doing PHENOMENAL, but she seems to think we need to chase our tails with the same income growth standard all throughout our "we did enough" years
Some people the FIRE movement is best. If you are single or have no kids and if you and your spouse goal isnt working until you have 1 foot in the grave I say go for it.
All the money in the world means nothing if you don't have a life to live with it!
Hey the FIRE thing made him a multi millionaire at 40 so you can’t just say it sucks. Unsustainable long term solution? Sure
I'm glad the comment section is smart enough to realize that FIRE isn't the problem
No way, FIRE is alive an well!
As a FIRE achiever at the age of 40, the trick is to know when its time to be done. Too much greed runs through people, and there is no means to an end. Get a number, and make it your goal. Once you hit that number, be done! No 2 week notice to your employer! Just stop showing up! lol
Hustling three jobs just to take out massive debt on four properties…he was so close yet so far away
Not really
But the homes are paying for themselves. Even if he only kept the homes let's say 5 years he could still sell and make money off the appreciation. Yes he took a big risk, but if done right there's a big payoff.
What a dumb comment.
he has equity he is doing well
Dave liter said he has a 4 mill net worth and made sure to calculate his equity into that. I know this the anti debt channel. But he is objectively doing well. He just said he could quit everything and have a 50k salary for life that will increase overtime. Seems like the fire method worked he just isn't mentally ready to reap his rewards
Dave, people don't want to work 40 years to enjoy a few years left to live. People don't live to work, they work to live. You may live to work and some people may live to work. I'm 100% okay with that. However some people would rather spend time doing other things with their life and that's why they FIRE.
I retired at 52 a couple of years ago. My lifestyle is the exact same as when I was working. 4.7% draw on my savings projected to last me until 95 with over 85% confidence. Annually adjustments as needed to keep on track, and spending smile assumptions allow the larger initial draw down than the 4% rule.
FIRE is all about living like no one else so you can live like no one else. Feel like I've heard that somewhere else before..
As i approach my first million I really like what Dave said about what a Millionaire really is especially with a Toyota Corolla in my driveway. I do not agree with him discrediting the fire movement as it has a lot of positives and alligns with a lot of what he teaches it taught me to save my money and put away and invest which is basically how I got to where I am today.
Rising prices, slow growth, and trade disruptions require immediate response from all sectors in order to restore stability and spur growth. Our economy is grappling with uncertainties, housing troubles, foreclosures, global swings, and pandemic repercussions, all of which are producing instability.
With the US dollar losing value to inflation and other currencies gaining traction, uncertainty looms. Yet, many still trust in the Dollar's perceived safety. Worried about my $420,000 retirement savings losing value, I seek alternative security for my money.
With my demanding job, I lack time for investment analysis. For seven years, a fiduciary has managed my portfolio, adapting to market conditions, enabling successful navigation and informed decisions. Consider a similar approach.
this is definitely considerable! think you could suggest any professional/advisors i can get on the phone with? i'm in dire need of proper portfolio allocation
Her name is “VIVIAN CAROL GIOIA” can't divulge much. Most likely, the internet should have her basic info, you can research if you like
I just Googled her name and her website came up right away. It looks interesting so far. I'm going to send a mail to her and let you know how it goes.Thanks for sharing truly!
Sounds like a "Cat's in the Cradle" thing.
Hmm I wouldn’t invested in dividend stocks instead and called it a day . Buying rental properties can just be another job.
I know right. If he put it in the s and p he'll be making about 120k a year doing nothing. If you can't live of 120k a year then you have spending issues
Good advice. My fiance and I make 65k each and have discussed getting second jobs to save for a home. We decided against it so we can actually enjoy time together once we're married and have a life.
One doesn't need 2-3 jobs to FI/RE. Just live a modest life and live below your means. Saving and investing at an early age offers the best chance of retiring early in itself.
If you don't know where you're going, you'll keep on driving until you run out of fuel!
If fire doesn't work, why will he be worth 20 mil at retirement? Seems like something worked.
It works financially but mentally & emotionally it’s draining 🤷🏾♂️✊🏾
I never heard how much investments beside these rental properties. Rental properties worth 20 million in 40 years? We in trouble then
He would only be worth that if he works another 20 years, i.e. does NOT do FIRE...
@@cutehumor I think he’s saying if he were to sell the rental properties and put that money into mutual funds.
This video is kind of a jaw dropper from title, to the guys mental makeup at 40, spilling all that out within 2 minutes, to Ramsey actually telling someone to chill tf out. This one hits hard and fast my word.
Not sure why they are hating on FIRE - it has similar concepts to what they teach and have teachings that would benefit many of their listeners. There are also like 10 variations of FIRE and not all of them are extreme.
It goes against Ramsey’s business and teachings so they automatically shun it.
Dave cares more about branding and having you do things his way. Rather than whats actually best for the person.
He literally doesn't like it because its not his plan. Thats why. He will make up reasons bit its all justify his 7 steps.
People have to pay attention. He’s not hating on it he’s simply saying that it’s not sustainable. Most people who do FIRE would mostly save until they have a little over a million in investments and then quit their jobs hoping that at 40 their investments will last them until 80 and that would only be possible if you keep your lifestyle to a complete minimum in which here in America, that’s definitely not possible especially with inflation, taxes, kids, unexpected expenses, and lifestyle creep. The best and most long term plan is to live a life of balance and moderation but with intention. What’s it worth to the caller to be worth $2M-$3M at 40 with health complications & your kids are distant from you? That’s hell on earth to me 🤷🏾♂️✊🏾
@@insure4cheap$80k-120k/year is living at a minimum? Ok...
It's extremely similar. The difference is Dave wants you to only invest 15%, work until you are 102, and give millions to Christian charities. FIRE simply says invest more, then retire whenever you can, and do whatever the bleep you want.
The FIRE movement is alive and well thank you very much …this gentleman needs to understand that he made it congratulations…time to get a part time job just to cover health insurance and enjoy time with your family and friends…also speak to a financial advisor you seem lost …
Part time job for health insurance? Where do I sign up for that unicorn? Financial advisor? Hard stop there too.
FIRE is alive after you retire 20 years from the military ✌️
Eh……depends on what rank you retire at.
FIRE is definitely not the problem here. He did it. He's just having trouble flipping the switch to coasting. Quit the jobs today, and he can be financially independent at the age of 40 and never have to worry about money ever again. He's done way better than most.
This is a great problem to have, he already accomplished and sacrificed enough. At 40, it is now time for him to stop working 3 jobs, keep only one job and even a side hustle as well if he wants. He can reduce the amount of hours worked, relax and enjoy life.
This man is not worth $2 million. He said he had around $1.3 million equity including his 3 rentals AND his primary home, plus about $350,000 in savings & 401k/IRA’s which = $1,650,000. Also many finance experts suggests looking at what is your net worth after excluding your primary home because its the other investments that work for you toward retirement. (Although it’s obviously a big plus to have no mortgage payment at 65.) So his investable net worth is closer to $1,070,000 (40% equity in the three $1.8 million rental houses plus $350,000 in savings/401k/IRA’s ). Not bad at age 40, but certainly not $2 million!
Also, there were a lot of questions that Dave didn’t ask to ease this guy’s anxiety. How would Dave know whether the caller would be living paycheck-to-paycheck after quitting his other 2 jobs without asking: What do you do for a living? How much are you making in your primary job? What are your annual living expenses? Does your wife work? How many kids do you have? How much net income after all expenses are you bringing in on the 3 rentals? How many hours a month do you spend managing your rentals? These are basic questions to ask before giving this guy advice.
Also, I think Dave was getting dangerously close to “not making sense behind the microphone” when he suggested the caller at age 40 with x number of kids, a wife, and 4 mortgage payments should quit all 3 jobs for a year. Dave said, “He could easily get those kind of jobs again.” How does he know that??? He never asked the caller what kind of jobs he had while working 85 hours a week!
The caller implied he was making $200,000/year working 85 hours per week. (He said he saved about $100k/year which was half his income, and worked 12 hour days.) To make $200k/year working 85 hours/week you have to average around $45 per hour! There are not many jobs making that kind of money…and certainly not many where you can quit and easily come back to a year later.
Lastly, I may be wrong but don’t think he was maxing out his 401k’s/IRA’s ($23,000/year under age 50) PLUS making another $100,000 to invest = $123,000/year saved. I think his total was $100k including all sources.
This guy needs to go to a Dave recommended CFP and get a financial plan set up for the next 25 years.
The caller said he'd be paycheck to paycheck if he cut down to one job AFTER maxing out his 401k contributions. That is not paycheck to paycheck.
The caller has no idea what "living paycheck to paycheck" really means. He's being melodramatic.
I know this guys feeling. The more wealth that I've built, the stingier I've become with my money. I'm not shortchanging my quality of life, but still have anxiety about saving vs spending money.
I did Coast FIRE and have just over $1Million at 40 and now don’t save anymore and have fun with all our income and don’t have to worry about saving anymore
Funny how Dave can say that FIRE doesnt work when it clearly worked (and is still working) for this guy. He was able to save, max out his retirement accounts, and he has several real estate properties at the age of 40 because of his involvement in the FIRE movement. We dont know what the caller's goal is, but he could possibly not have to work for the rest of his life or at the least heavily cut back on work hours.
FIRE isnt supposed to be easy and it actually has a lot of similarities to the Baby Steps.
I practiced FIRE for about a year, it was great boost to my savings and retirement. I would not do it for that long.
Like many financial concepts, F.I.R.E. is often misunderstood.
The FIRE movement is still alive and strong, Dave's completely wrong!
The fire movement hasn’t burned down lol what is he talking about. So of course Dave is against it. It doesn’t help promote his brand.
Exactly.
Dave hates that FIRE people know better than to invest with his financial advisors.
Daves pride won't let him admit that he doesn't fully understand FIRE
Not pride. Ego.
That and it hurts his business model. If you have a bunch of well off retired people, less business for his company.
@@PepeToTheMooonYou’re joking, right? The guy who tells everyone that calls in to go and work more to get out of debt?
@@PabloSanLucaDave runs a business reliant on people coming to him for his solutions. If more people are retired early and don’t need his brand, he gets less business. This isn’t very hard to grasp at all. Dave isn’t going to recommend something that he doesn’t teach.
@@TRC19999 exactly.
Confirmed, as a self made 40 year old millionaire, debt free including the house, I can tell you I still live like a lower income person. It’s really not that great like Dave says. Wife and I both have to work to maintain this life.
The fruits of our labor will not be realized until I’m 65, God willing.
It should be tho. maybe youre driving too expensive cars and live in expensive home thus not having enough to experience more things or even take more time off.
@@Fc9ers I have the smallest home on the street, very affordable for the area. We have a 14 year old Pathfinder and a 10 year old F150. Not quite.
What I’m saying is that my life is about the same as it was with I was a $500kaire, which is very close to when I was right at $0. All the money is in retirement, house, 529s, and HSAs. Having money in those accounts don’t change the now, they change when Im 65.
@@Nemesisnxt It sounds like it's time for you to shift some of your investing to taxable accounts.
What do you mean live like lower income person. Your position alone means you aren't lower income because lower income people don't have paid off homes. Unless you're eating rice and beans everyday to make ends meet then you're not living as Lower income people. Also if you already have a million at 40 then you don't have to retire at 65. You CHOOSE to. You can easily retire at 50 based on your comment
I am glad I never worshipped money like this. I live modestly in retirement but my life has been a long, fun adventure. I worked to live, not lived to work.
Successful investing is hard work because it means disciplining your mind to do the opposite of human nature. Buying during a panic, selling during euphoria, and holding on when you are bored and just craving a little action. Investing is 5% intellect and 95% temperament.
We have learnt in investing journey that you can't control the market but you have the power to control your actions in the market.
True, the idea of a portfolio-coach used to sound generic, but a new study by investopedia actually found that demand for portfolio-coaches sky-rocketed by over 41.8% since the pandemic and based on firsthand encounters, I can say for certain their skillsets are topnotch, I've raised over 900k from an initially stagnant reserve of 250K all within 14months.
I have been thinking about how to grow my reserve by atleast 40% or more within months. I will be grateful if you can give tips or anything on how to make good market picks and how I can get my portfolio diversified and balanced in order to meet up my target..
Big Credits to ''THILO MOUKOKO' he has a web presence, so you can simply search for, there are some others but it might be difficult to get them, but Thilo has been a good guide through the year.
He appears to be well-educated and well-read. I ran a Google search on his name and came across his website; thank you for sharing.
The numbers do work
Did DR FPU, I was full on FIRE & then we had a baby & I valued my time & enjoyment with my baby more than FIRE. I can always make more money, I can’t make more time. We’ve set up our life so that we don’t have to work 3 jobs while we’re still young & healthy & can scale back working to spend time with our kids & travel. Because we worked hard & saved early in our careers & stay debt-free, we don’t have to add another dime to our RA’s. We aren’t FI yet, but we’ll be able to retire as millionaires & we didn’t have to sacrifice time with our kids or make our lives miserable to do it.
If i was 18 again, I'd absolutely do this for 10 years and retire overseas and go have a family and never work again. It'd be fantastic.
Fire works for double income no kids really well. It doesn't work well for families. He should sell two of the houses and keep one investment property.
I'll be retired at 55 on fire but I'll probably just drive uber or something easier on my body and mental health. Once i can draw social security i can truly retire and do nothing. I just need a little extra until social security kicks in. Probably drive a few days a week even after i retire, a few hundred a week always helps. It also gives you something to do. Also could just be for vacations and date nights with the wife.
Agree with what Dr John said about he still owes 900k on the property he has, I think that is the key of his problem. We are also into FIRE , but no longer wanting to quit at age of 47, even though we still could . But we actually enjoy our jobs, granted not every day is rainbows and unicorns. Point is to enjoy your work and life, still save a decent rate. We put away 52% if calculated base on AGI, not including kids investment such. I am 42 and hubby 45. We achieved the millionaire ( not counting home equity) 5 yrs ago, but no debt for our investment is why we felt that there is no pressure . Our goal is to retire 55 and 58. Which I still thinks it’s FIRE, but with a more reasonable age. Good luck to folks wish to FIRE .
Being debt free at 48 was a huge blessing. I work from home and can go anywhere. Relationships mean everything; things do not.
Spending time with your family is more important than money.
Both don't matter.
Be real. You can’t take care of your family without the money. Imagine saying “I now have the time to spend time with my family” only to realize you don’t have the money to take them out for fun things. And it doesn’t have to be one or the other. Most of my successful friends don’t work until 10:00 PM like people claim. You won’t have time to spend with your kids until around 8:00 PM anyway, regardless of your schedule, because of their after school activities, sports practice, homework, studying, hanging out with their friends, etc.
, there’s a lot of people doing fire that don’t feel this way . I was traveling and doing all kinds of fun stuff while doing my fire plan .
Yup, I max out my accounts and rent a couple rooms in a house. Still travel and do a lot of the things I want. Rest of my friends are living hand to mouth and are house / car poor.
So much category confusion here. He could literally quit all his jobs now, scale back his spending and investing, and be retired at age 40. The fact that he doesn't quit his job doesn't mean "FIRE" itself has proven "unsustainable"; it means he's not willing to do the RE part, which is a different thing.
Millennials and GenX constantly whining on social media that it's impossible to buy a house in America and that there are no jobs. Meanwhile, this caller Matt from Seattle just turned 40, works 3 jobs and owns 4 houses, and still manages to save $100K every year for retirement. You go, Matt!!
He makes 200k a year solo. Median income is 40k a year individually. So of course he can afford one. If he was making 40-60 a year he would not be able to do that.
@@blackspiderman1887yep talking the truth. Also he sounds like a landlord or and a house flipper.
@@blackspiderman1887 He makes $200K, cuz he works 3 jobs (at 65K salary, per job), as opposed to having a victimhood mindset, like others his age.
@@mstberg523 do the math please. Even if he works 80 hours a week making $25 and hour, that's only 83k a year. He is still making well above that. This man has 3 excellent paying jobs. There is only so many hours in the week so he's not working more than 80 hours a week. I know because I work 70 hours a week and have zero time for anything. So he's not working more than 70 or 80 hours a week. So don't try to make it look like he's just working harder than everyone else.
I’ve never enjoyed working and I don’t know anybody that does 😂
working is overrated
I enjoy the money. I would just sit around wasting time watching UA-cam videos if I was retired.
Work in some capacity is important. Whether it’s a hobby or not.
A job where you can interact with people and stay social serves a purpose for sure. We’re heading towards barista FIRE ourselves where we intend to work only 2 days a week
You don't speak for me or for a lot of people. The problem is YOU. Did you ever try to get into a line of work that you enjoy? Were you willing to get educated in your chosen field in order to get there? Or (as I suspect is really the case) are you just a lazy bum?
I don’t mind working. It keeps me active
This isn't the fire movement. This a guy who has serious emotional or psychological problems.
The fire movement is not about working 3 jobs for the rest of your life. Its about living minimalistic and investing a huge percentage of your income whatever it is. And yes.. some people do get extra jobs. But they don't dobit forever. The goal is to become financially independent. So you can quit working a job you depend on for food. You can continue working. But you can focus on what you care about.
The fire movement can be very successful & sustainable. I think it attracts people who have problems and are about 1 step away from being a hermit. But its not burned out.
I agree with this
Exactly! I FIRE’d 10 years ago. I didn’t work 3 jobs or invest nearly as much to do so.
"I think it attracts people who ....are about 1 step away from being a hermit" 😆Thank you for this!!! I've laughed for 3 min straight, thanks for this, right on point! 😂
You nailed it
My aim at the moment is to be worth $2 mil by age 65, but I understand the caller's emotions, the more you have the more you think you need.
A big problem I have with Fire is, you have enough to “retire” at 45 then you are constantly worried about the future
Lol I love how Dave says FIRE doesn't work, meanwhile the caller could literally retire at 40...
And retiring at 40 is ASININE. Retiring at 40 often means dying at 50 after spending your 40s on the couch.
@amireallythatgrumpy6508 or you could let people do whatever they want, and quit being buthurt about others success.
@@cjax3187 It's not success, it's intentional failure.
@amireallythatgrumpy6508 ok bro....
@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 being retired is not spending life on the couch. But for those who define it that way, it's not surprising they don't live very long.
FIRE has been around for decades. We just didn’t have a trendy word for it. My brother did FIRE 30 years ago. No kids or wife. Easy to do right? No debt, house paid, cars paid,etc. Set to retire from one job at 44 with all the money to do it. Died of a heart attack at 43. That was 20 years ago and was married for a year. She literally pissed away all the money. Eye opener for me. Life is too short to kill your self for early retirement. Once you lived through a few recessions and bad job market, you adjust your priorities because there isn’t a sure fire formula. Be frugal, invest and save what you can. Say no more often to people who always want money too. Don’t work yourself to death either.
Some people can retire in their 40s without working themselves to death.
Poor people die of heart attack young too. So that has nothing to do with the FIRE movement.
Sorry to hear that, but its like a 1/1000 sort of scenario.
@@MN-wg8qd mostly men die young. Statistics don’t lie. Don’t work yourself to death.
@@blackspiderman1887 men die younger than women. Statistics don’t lie.
The FIRE process worked for him, he's just in the same phase many Ramsey followers get to where they don't know how to switch mentally to actually enjoy life. Now it's a take it slower and enjoy life a bit and his family. He's good, Ramsey's prob just a lil ticked cause the guy showed the #'s did work for him.
He never said he was living paycheck to paycheck.. He said that scare him the thought of that.... goodness me why is youtube continually recommending this guy...
Dave hired this guy to call in so he could discredit Fire. They actually proved the opposite
FIRE discredits itself.
Amazing video, A friend of mine referred me to a financial adviser sometime ago and we got to talking about investment and money. I started investing with $150k and in the first 2 months, my portfolio was reading $274,800. Crazy right!, I decided to reinvest my profit and get more interesting. For over a year we have been working together making consistent profit just bought my second home 2 weeks ago and care for my family.
Hi. I’ve been forced to find additional sources of income as I got retrenched. I barely have time to continue trading and watch my investments since I had my second child. Do you think I should take a break for a while from the market and focus on other things or return whenever I have free time or is it a continuous process? Thanks
@@caseycantrell-gh6fg However, if you do not have access to a professional like JUDITH ANN PEACE, quitting your job to focus on trading may not be the best approach. It is important to consider all options and seek guidance from reliable sources before making any major decisions. Consulting with an AI or using automated trading systems can also be helpful in managing investments while balancing other commitments
@@lennoxmutterick6434 Oh please I’d love that. Thanks!
@@caseycantrell-gh6fg Judith Ann peace is her name
Lookup with her name on the webpage
This poor guy. Worked so hard but caused so much stress.
I’m FIRE and it not bulshit.
Keep working and build your dreams.