Pour A Concrete Slab Over A Concrete Slab, #3 Porch Conversion Video
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2017
- How I poured a concrete slab over an existing concrete porch slab. This is video #3 of my porch to room addition series. My objective was to create a new level floor surface for my new room addition that was being created during this porch conversion project. In this case I was able to get away with pouring a concrete slab directly over the old concrete slab. I had to figure out the proper height of my new floor and build concrete forms and place them precisely.
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Porch Conversion Video Playlist
Vid #1: Remove Siding Demolition
• Remove Vinyl Siding.. ...
Vid #2: Remove Brick Demolition
• How To Remove Brick.. ...
Vid #3: Pour Concrete Over Old Concrete
• Pour A Concrete Slab O...
Vid #4: Add Anchor Bolts Into New Concrete Floor
• How I Epoxy (Glue) Anc...
Vid #5: Framing Walls To Enclose Old Porch Space
• How I Framed Walls To ...
Vid #6: Rough-In Electrical Installation
• How To Run Wire in New...
Vid #7: Installing Plywood Sheathing
• Installing Plywood She...
Vid #8: Installing Windows
• How I Installed Window...
Vid #9: Installing Sliding Glass Door
• Installing A Large Sli...
Vid #10: Exterior Siding Installation
• HardiePlank Siding, In...
Vid #11: Insulation and Drywall
• Installing Insulation ...
Vid #12: Installing Plank Flooring
• Install Engineered Vin...
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"Raising Poppy" channel, showing adventures with my children / @poppyandforest
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I also demonstrate how to use a water level to locate the form height in this video.
This How to pour concrete over old concrete video is just part of my multiple video series demonstrating how turned a patio into a living space addition. Make sure to watch them all. - Навчання та стиль
I've been pouring foundations for 41 years and you did this perfectly.
Thanks D'andre, this method of pouring concrete over existing concrete worked well for this scenario where this porch was converted into living space.
D'andre can this method be used for a garage floor as well?
That water leveling is brilliant! I have never seen it done like that before.
Awesome, thanks
I'm going through all your videos right now and they are all great. I love the little tips and tricks you do to make things simple and easy. Now time to convince the wife to let me do this under our deck....
Awesome! Thank you! It is awesome to hear you are enjoying the room addition videos. Let me know if you get the green light for your build project.
Super helpful ideas and nice job!
Glad it was helpful!
Dude! waterlevel, I love it, it's been a minute since I've done that now that everyone and their brother has lasers.
thank you
SMART GUY ,GOOD JOB, CLEAN CUT . I LOVE IT AND I WILL DO THE SAME TO MY PATIO,THANKS
Thanks Mario, best of luck with your patio conversion project and I hope this concrete pour video was helpful for you.
Crafty video man. I been doing concrete for four years now learning from the best. Glad to see you are showing people good ways of going about things
Super cool comment, thanks! Keep up the good work with concrete on your end.
Stephen and Carter
Lovely job mate
Thanks for watching and the comment
Well done my man
thanks James!
Great job literally Plus God blesses you with friends so that is a huge help
Yes my friends were a huge help for this concrete project. I just did another concrete slab project these past few days by myself and it was nearly impossible!
I have been doing a lot of project around my home. I just found your channel and you have given me the courage to try doing my concrete slab. It is going to cost $4500 if I pay the pros to do it and about $1500 to do it my self. It is about 500 plus sf.
Thanks Edwin, best of luck with your concrete pour project. Please let us know how it turns out.
Kinda Hard the first time, do the labor hire a finisher on Craig list or offerup to smooth it out
Thanks for water level tip.
Thanks for watching the concrete tips video and glad to hear the leveling technique was insightful for you.
Beautiful work
Thanks!
Very descriptive thanks
Thanks for watching the concrete video demonstration and I hope it was useful for you.
Very good
Thanks, best of luck on your DIY projects.
good job
Thanks for watching this video showing a concrete pour over another concrete floor.
EXCELLENT JOB MAN IT WAS DONE RIGHT ON.
Thanks for watching and the comment Michael.
nice job dude, you do really good work.
Thanks for watching man and the comment
nice
You did a nice job of forming and laying it out. I am not a concrete expert, but just from what I've done over the years, and from watching a lot of concrete poured, I think you missed a several things that would have made me say "great job!". I came here to see if anyone else was trying to do what I'm going to do. Add concrete to an existing slab, to make it level, and then install flooring over it. My customer had a guy build a room over the old pad. No kidding! It's a nightmare!!!! It's a 16' room, and it is 4+ inches low from the house to the outside wall. The original patio was stamped and stained. Ideally, grinding off the old finish and then applying a bonding agent would be the way to go. But grinding just seems out of the question for several reasons. The room is already finished, the cost to grind is going to be at least $1,000 for a 16'x24' and a good amount is going to have to come off to get to raw concrete. So, I thought we could drill holes, epoxy rebar and then attach wire mesh. Pour the concrete and level out. I would normally glue down the flooring, but because of going this route, I think a floating floor would be the far better way to install, which should eliminate any crack issues or whatever else. He doesn't have many options at this point. The idiot who poured the new part of the slab and then build a room over it should be never allow to do work for others ever again! But, that's just my opinion. Anyone have any suggestions, other than walk away from this, please reply! He's already had numerous people come by and take a look at it, and then never hears from them again. That pretty much says it all. No one is going to do this and have liability if it doesn't work. I may have to consult an attorney on this as people sue even after they sign off on liability issues.
The process shown here in this video worked well for this particular application. The concrete pour on top of the existing porch slab project was vetted by local building regulatory officials before the concrete was even poured. The floor has performed flawlessly. Regarding your project I wish you the best of luck. If you are able please share what you end up doing. Thanks
this is so very helpful. i watched this because i am trying to get advice on resloping concrete, without having to demo all the existing concrete. what would you recommend for not producing a weak cold joint? is a bonding agent enough to be able to pour an entire slab on top of the existing for example?
Thanks for watching and commenting. Not sure I can provide the advise you are looking regarding your concrete project. For the project shown in the video a concrete bonding agent was not determined necessary. Best of luck with your project and keep me posted how it turns out.
Great video! What would you do if the slab underneath did not have footers?
Good question! It might be a good idea to talk to an engineer. It all depends on all the variables of your project. If the new loads are substantial it may be required to put in new footers.
Nice Job, it looks good.
But, a wire mesh would be betterto hold the concrete together like a single block resting on another block of concrete , plus a sheet of plastic is recommended to reduce sweating from soil moisture into the new room,. ( Because the porch may not have had a layer of plastic under it )
Thanks for watching and the tips. Utilized a Fiber reinforced concrete mix on this project.
Should have etched the old concrete with muratic acid for better bond - tap lightly on your finished slab if you hear a hollow sound then you have a poor bond better the old and new
Thanks for sharing👍! I'm wanting to do the samething to my back patio cause it slopes inward like yours did, causing the rain to puddle along the house. I have a quick question. Where your post are I have gutters coming down. Instead of making a gap around it. Can't I just cut the gutter and raise it then pour the cement all the way around the post that the gutters are attach to?
(The post are supporting my patio cover not my house)
Your response is very much appreciated.. 😊
Thanks for watching the concrete pour video. From how I interpret what you described I would think it would be easier to move the gutters. Best of luck with you concrete project.
Joe I have an existing patio just like yours. In my project, I want to make an expanded patio that runs the length of the house and also about 4 feet more on the front of the existing patio. How in the heck would you recommend that I do that? Remove the old patio, use it and poor the new concrete around it or poor over it????
Thanks for the question. Not sure I have a complete understanding of the project but it might be ideal to remove the old and do the new larger "patio." If you are going to add structure you may need a proper foundation anyway. If a new foundation is not needed you might possibly be able to pour new concrete pads around the existing to accomplish your goal. Keep me posted on your project's progress. I am curious on how it all turns out.
What was put between the new slab and the house slab gap. Somthjng had to go in there to make the transition I can’t figure it out
It was filled with concrete after the old door was removed. The door was recessed below the height of the new floor, so I had to leave the temporary space in order to be able to remove the door.
Just a question..why did you not simply put the formwork to match the outside slab?..it could have been a drill n screw to the existing slab and angled to the front?..your thoughts because that's what I would have done..
I think you are asking why I did not form around the perimeter of the existing slab so the new slab would match the dimensions of the old. The new slab had to terminate where the new walls would be installed and the new walls had to be placed under the beam framing of the existing roof (which is where the post are). This was to allow some overhang of the wall sheathing material over the new slab and keep water out and the sheathing off the ground at same time. This method was also required in the building permit.
Ok, thank you..
charminglad124 no kidding
Thank you for sharing this video. Now I have to think about how to keep the neighbors dog off the freshly poured slab.
Thanks for watching and best of luck with your concrete pour project and keeping the dog off of it while it is setting up.
I have 0 credentials but I approve this method of pouring concrete over an existing slab :)
Wow thanks for the kind comment of support.
Bien ahí !!! Wero
Why no rebar in slab?
I'm attempting the same thing and wondering about using a vapor barrier between the old slab and the new slab?
Rebar reinforcement was determined not beneficial for this concrete floor pour application. One of the reasons was the integrity of the existing concrete floor and foundation the new slab was poured over. The new floor was not expected to receive significant flex forces which is what metal reinforcement counters. Also the paint on the existing floor was determined a good enough barrier for this application.
Newbie here, looking to take on a similar project. Why didn’t you build the floor up with wood floor joists?
For this application we determined the poured concrete floor would be best practice. Building a wood framed floor could have been another possibility but was not the path we chose.
Wonderful job!
Do you need to have a city permit to pour concrete patio?
Thank you for your time
A permit may or may not be required depending on your region and the extent of your concrete project.
@@MrKistel Is it any particular square footage standard?
I'm looking for 121sf just for barbeque and nothing else.
Nice job MrKistel. Just a few questions popped up in my mind though. I had been doing some reading before I stumbled on to your video. Didn't you need to clean the floor first of any debris and dampen the existing floor first so that the first layer doesn't suck all the water out if the new layer of concrete or did you already do that before filming? Also... Wasn't is necessary to use a concrete bonding agent first before adding the new layer of concrete or is that only optional? I read that two separate layers of concrete don't actually adhere together "chemically" and you need a mechanical bond using a concrete glue
Thank you for your comment. I rinsed the old concrete slab with a hose prior to pouring the fresh concrete on top. This procedure cleaned the old floor a bit and added moisture to compensate for the reason you mentioned. For this application it was not necessary "attach" the new concrete layer to the old concrete floor so the new concrete slab is essentially floating. Having said that it is unlikely to move because there should not be any forces applied that would cause it to move since it is only a floor with a downward gravitational force. Also the old concrete floor had a very rough surface which the new pad will likely not slip on and the new floor is attached to the room walls. I hope this explanation helps.
Would the rebar mesh make the new additional slap stronger, or it is unnecessary? Thanks
For this particular concrete pour rebar was not considered necessary. For many concrete applications rebar or wire mesh is necessary for structural reasons.
How did you close off the corners around the base of the posts? It briefly appears like something went there, but hard to tell.
Rigid pieces of Styrofoam were placed in to make forms around the post before the concrete was poured.
I just bought my first home and I have a slab that’s 10x12 for a shed and well inside. The previous owners converted garage into a bedroom leaving us with only a 10x10 shed for storage. Could I do something like this to extend my slab? I’d poor about 4 inches higher due to a low grade and about 8x10 bigger
Sounds like an interesting situation. You probably have some options but you may want to check with your local building department to verify any specifics they may require.
Could you place the masonry bolt before pouring the slab? Like instead of drilling the holes after the slab is dry? Or does it affect the bolt? Or something
Yes you could put something like J-bolts into the concrete shortly after the concrete is poured. Once the concrete is cured the anchors bolts should be solid and secure.
Not bad! Should have used a bonding agent and steel. It would have been more work but I would of put in temp roof supports to square off the corners then put the posts back to the finished concrete height. It looks odd having the posts sunk down on the original slab
Thank you. One of the main reasons the post were left in was because of the permitting process. By leaving the post in place it greatly simplified things with the local building department. I would have preferred to remove them as well but this approach was a compromise.
did this will work in a 4" old crack slab? or I need to remove the old one?
Don't think I can answer from my end but best of luck wit your project.
no rebars, tie ins ,or adhesive ? what are the chance of it cracking later
The original concrete slab underneath the new concrete pad poured was solid and stable. This minimizes the chances of the new concrete floor poured on top from failing.
Formwork was good, but personally I would have drilled some 50mm deep holes into the existing concrete slab and dropped 100mm Rebar lengths into them. Lay rebar mesh on seats and wire tie them as well as the upright lengths of rebar to eliminate any chance of movement. I would also include some expansion joints if the area is any bigger than this.
that sounds solid
I am wanting to do the same exact thing to my back porch. I have to admit concrete projects and especially a concrete project I need to get perfect so it is level with my homes foundation is quite intimidating. Instead of using concrete to raise my porch foundation is it possible to use wood and subfloor to raise it? That seems more beginner friendly and was wondering about your thoughts?
Sounds like a great project. Yes in many situations it is possible to use wood to build the floor you describe. You still may need to pour a concrete curb perimeter however to keep out water.
Any updates on your addition? I wonder if u use block wall or wood. how much did the concrete cost you for such a small pour? Around here 1cubic yard is 550$ ,under .6cubic yard will have 300$ deliver fee on top of whatever it is. I figured buying bags for small pour cost 1/3 of the price if poured by truck. idk how some say same or cheaper. less labor sure but not sure about cheaper
Here is the complete start to finish project video showing the room construction project. ua-cam.com/video/FbF8-9KVP74/v-deo.html I probably paid a premium for the small amount of concrete but it was enough volume that I didn't want to mix bags.
What happened to the 2x6 board up against the house?
The concrete form board was placed to provide a little space. The old sliding glass door stayed in till later in the renovation project and stopped us from pouring the entire floor at one time. Once the door was removed the remaining space was patched filled with concrete to create a flush floor.
Hi, I cant find video #4 in this serious, I would appreciate if you could send me link for video #4. Thank You.
Vid #4: Add Anchor Bolts Into New Concrete Floor
ua-cam.com/video/OTEVIL_HcOg/v-deo.html
Question I have a patio the slab is about 6 inches deep , we want to pour new cement over that but someone told us we couldn’t cause it will crack is that true??
If the existing slab is solid and likely able to handle the load of the new concrete without shifting I would think it would probably be ok.
U show the easy stuff .no bonding agent or wire ? I watched this to see if u did something around the edges to keep Out water /ice time will tell everything’s good new
This was built for a specific application that was determined to work well in this region.
Good slab to trip over!lol
the new concrete slab was enclosed for a room addition
not bad
Thank you. The poured concrete floor worked out perfectly for the new room addition build project.
How much was the square footage and how much was it for the concrete?
Don't recall specifically but most concrete suppliers provide online calculators that assist in getting an idea of concrete needed for any particular project.
This is what i need...i got a one step now slanted and way to small for even a womans foot..i want a larger one but dont see the need to take the old out
Great, best of luck with your concrete project.
I have a dumb question. How come the new poor isn’t tied into the existing slab with rebar? Isn’t it basically one piece (albeit a heavy one) sitting loosely on another? Again I know nothing of this kind of work.
It was not necessary to tie in the new concrete slab on top of the existing concrete floor for this project. Yes the new is essentially sitting on top of the old but the texture of the old floor surface provides more then enough griping area. Also framing anchors were adding prior to building the walls which were likely deep enough to reach into the old floor a good ways.
How deep is the sliding door recess?
The width of 2X lumber, 1.5"
Hi did you need a drain tile?
No, the concrete pad poor was to create a new floor for an inside space.
What if the foundation have cracks is there a way of still doing it
Possibly, it just depends on the overall condition of the existing concrete foundation. Best of luck with your concrete project
@@MrKistel how about the use of a moisture barrier or vapor barrier between the slabs?
question if my shed is already concrete base, and it is at an angle, but it is not that much of an angle, and i want to level it out. My concern is if the layer is too thin (the new concrete to make it level out). would it crack and seperate? i'm talking about 1 inch thin.
There are cement based products for thinner applications. Here are a couple examples: amzn.to/2IWL40o and (self leveling product up to a thickness of 1/2 inch) amzn.to/2IYgy6B . Best of luck with your project.
thx
@@CountBeetle@@CountBeetle... In the end I never level out my shed. I actually had to remove the shed. But you're leaking concern is because of rain or just water coming out?
I'm not professional, but I would say if it is from your plumbing then just remember when was the last time u put a screw in a wall, break something up to see where it started. They do have heat sensor gun, that would help locate stuffs behind wall
@@CountBeetle@@CountBeetle... Oh again I'm not expert, if anyone find this information is wrong please help the guy out. My opinion is lower the surrounding if possible and yea have some sort of sealers. May cut like 2 or 3 inch if all concrete surround ur patio, so when rain or water it can goes in it and of course you need to guide the path to the lowest spot of dirt.
@@CountBeetle@@CountBeetle . Please don't just do what I recommend. Well first seek for channels that have experiences people on it. Now, maybe this might help. I'm assuming your patio is at the lowest spot, i mean that's obvious why water goes to it. So since you can't raise it then lower the surround. If you're area has alot of rain. Then make a big gutter around your patio that allows rain to goes in and to some where else. The cracks that under you're wall, just any kind that can resist the water splashes into it. Since it will allow the water goes into the gutter you should be fine. www.pinterest.com/pin/193514115216744482/?lp=true ... something similar like this
Great job!!! What's the purpose of keeping the slab wet for a few days?
Concrete takes a long time to fully cure. I guess keeping it wet helps better insure an equal cure throughout the slab and less likely to crack during the curing process.
This new concrete will adhere to the existing slab but because the shrinkage/expansion properties don't match, it will crack. Perhaps if it was designed to free float above the existing slab you could of avoided cracking.
Why do you think the coefficient for thermal expansion will be different between the new concrete and the old concrete?
on existing Concrete avery 12" or at least 16" wouldn't let it crack.
why put the form around the 4x4 post? should have framed in a temporary wall and installed new posts. because now you have a 4x4 post stuck in the old concrete and it will look horrible. also no rebar.
For this project it was much easier to get a local building permit by leaving the existing post in place. I would have preferred to remove them otherwise. The post are isolated from the concrete and not in the concrete (that was the reason to install forms around the post). Rebar was not necessary for this application.
Jimmi rig or at least put some expansion foam against the post
they have these things called boots
Yes David boots are an ideal wardrobe choice when working with concrete, especially when pouring a concrete slab.
No
NO VAPOR BARRIER? NO WIRE? NO DOWELS? haha i'm a mason in south jersey and it looks great good job man
Thanks for watching and commenting on this concreate pour video. For this application the method demonstrated was determined appropriate.
@@MrKistel I know I was making fun of all the people in the comments that always have something negative to say. great job
Where are you located? We would like your help if we can afford you?
How flattering but I am afraid I am not available for hire. Hopefully some of the building the room addition videos on this channel will be helpful for you though. If you want to discuss further please see the email address in the about section. Thanks
Man angle down the the handle on that float
drill some cavities, bent rebar in cavities tied to rebar curtain on flat surface but movable by hand to settle concrete cavities with rebar and concrete for bond. if needed use a quick hit of vibration to solidify concrete. 4 inch slump should do fine with no water added if possible. heavy toweling at a dry but still moist level and boomshakalaka
When making short marks, with you tape, don't use the hook.
Just pull the tape out longer, and hold it flush against the work.
Great tip regarding the use of the tape measure Dave. Thanks for sharing and watching.
just curious about the integrity of concrete pouring,,, is there no any need for rebars?
It was not required for local permitting compliance and thus I did not feel necessary. This was mainly just a leveling layer of concrete to level off the floor. I did use Concrete with fiberglass added to it for extra stability.
Yes you definitely need reinforcement in the concrete whatever town he’s in whatever city inspector passed them off on the job should be fired is all they did was add more wait to existing slab that was not properly tied in to the existing structure or have proper foundation I can’t believe they allow him to do this that would not fly in California not even close.
Rebars are required for structural elements that have to withstand signifiant compression and tension forces. An example would be a bridge deck and its supports or an office floor slabs and the concrete columns supporting it.
HA AH ,They are required for all of that👍🏻and they are also required for tying into a existing structure and adding significant dead load to an existing slab you need to Tie in with rebar to the existing structure with approved epoxy at least in California it is a requirement out here. FYI ‼️To be honest I’ve been doing it for years and years and years it’s almost common sense if you think about it. If you argue that point hey sometimes you can’t teach common sense. I just got plans approved for project in California which is a patio conversion and not only is it requiring for me to tie in with rebar to the existing foundation is requiring grade beams if you’re not familiar with those those are basically continuous underpads that run underneath the existing slab. Have a good one✌🏻
DL Construction the existing slab would have been stronger than any base you would have poured a new slab over. Reader is not always required. We have poured acres of slab on grade designed by professional engineers that did not require concrete, including schools, hospitals, utility plants and flood control. IN CALIFORNIA.
He probably needs to make sure his anchor bolts extend into the existing footing.
Poured wrong need dowl bars
I’ve been doing concrete dot 20 years and I have never seen a slab poured with no Steel
Nice job , i think that wil last for a long time as there is no load on it , even the Romans did it like this and that lasts already for over a thousand years. "-) funny how people on here come to tell how long they do this kind of work just to tell you that you did it wrong , sad people they are........maybe they should look up some video's about crack repair in concrete , wich was probably made by the same kind of professionals .....:-) Much love and happy building to all
Thanks Rob, the floor is still in perfect shape and I am confident will last the life of the overall structure. The concrete poured was poured over a solid and sound base (the existing concrete porch floor) which should keep the new concrete from flexing or bending at all. It is the stretching forces that typically cause concrete to fail and this is where rebar support comes in handy (the rebar limits the stretching). This new concrete floor should not be subject to any significant stretching forces thus reinforcing rebar was not deemed necessary.
Slope?
The new concrete floor poured is level whoever the existing concrete pad was sloped because it was an exterior porch floor.
@@MrKistel oh ok, forgot this is for a room inside. Thank you.
So handsome.
40 years of construction it will crack and loosen around the edges!
Jj How but it will be inside under the new extension of the house?
I want to pour congrete ober an existing concrete area but i intend to put tile ober it soon after. Would thise cracks effect the tile? This would be outdoor in my backyard.
@@pinky1933
The weight of the walls and roof will cause the lower part of the concrete to spread out, a lot like taking a pastry and pushing down on it, only a lot slower. That is why, at the very least, rebar should have been run around the perimeter.
Would have been easier, and more reliable, to build your addition and then build a wooden platform inside your addition. Slabs on slabs crumble and will never outlast your addition.
Do you know if there a video building wooden platform to raise carport height to match house?
Make.sure u use the right lumber...had a home.where they didnt
What a mess
no rebar? really?!?!?
No rebar wont last long
No holes. No adhesive. No rebar. That will crack up nicely. And you did not even wet the existing slab. Everyone is a contractor these days.
Rebar was determined not necessary for the application here as there should be no tension within the slab. This was the recommended method from the local permitting authority. In a later video the cured slabbed is doweled into the existing slab below.
Didn't even wet the old slab. Shouldn't have used metal floats before the float water is gone, should only use wood or composite. This is an extremely common mistake.
This won't work here in Minnesota. Nor is it allowed. Here the footer has to be six feet underground or you're going to experience major heave.
Wrong 48" below ground level
Ryan Seppanen are these 48" below surface due to tjermafrost? or why is it for ? thanks
Never a good idea...code will not allow it in most places.
You know that slope was there for a reason?
Yes, the original slope was necessary to shed water away form the house because the structure was an outdoor porch. In this project the patio was being converted into enclosed living space where a level floor was desired.
That slab will crack to shit even with the footing under it. You could have least used some rebar.
Did i just see you blow your patio off with a weed wacker? dude... 70 bucks
It had a leave blower attachment on it you crack head
What a Fuckin' Mess! No Rebar, No Soaps! This will not last should have got a decent Builer!
Nice job but you made critical mistakes.
The new slab is not properly anchored to the old slab. You should have drilled holes into the old slab and hammered rebar into it with enough sticking up for the new slab to grab hold of.
You should have at least run rebar around the perimeter to prevent the weight of the walls and roof from causing the lower part of the slab from wanting to spreading out from the weight. Eventually, the weight will cause the edges to start cracking and flaking off.
This process for this particular project was determined appropriate by the local building authority. The new walls are not really load bearing and the stability of the new slab is dependent on the stability of the original structure beneath it. Rebar is most helpful when flexing forces are involved and concrete handles compression forces well.
Yup need to drill dowel holes and put rebar in with anchoring epoxy then tie in rebar for the new slab that thing is definitely gonna crack in time
Some home owners just have horrible taste. And some people just don’t know any better. Or atleast it seems like it.
You have no clue about concrete...no wire mesh...no method to adhere new concrete to old slab...you applied much more weight to an existimg footing that wasnt originally designed to carry that much weight...
Horrible
Everything about this is wrong,just sayin'
Please explain.
This guy don't even know how to use a skeet like his generic partner and much less use a finish trowl
You know how to use a skeet? Wow. Youre special.