Build your own low budget capsize righting pole for your Hobie 16 or other catamaran
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- Опубліковано 12 жов 2020
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⛵️Instagram / totaljoyrider I'll cut to the chase - this one was took short and thus didn't work for solo Hobie 16 in light winds. I think an extra 30 cm would have made the difference. I'll repeat this procedure with a longer pole.
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Just started building my righting pole 2 weeks ago. Perfect timing.
Excellent - MK2 going on today!
No doubt now that the bag is the way to go. Thanks Joseph
Yeah, that's now my standard.
I use a home built water bag when I'm solo on a H18. I can put over 200lbs of water in it. You need about 300 total for a H18. Sometimes you need to shuck up the bag a little higher at the end to get it out of the water to finish getting the boat up
Yes, it seems that bag height is pretty critical
@@JoyriderTV when i was 16 and about 70 KG i used an regular garbage bag... loop in the righting line in my trapeze and bag with water over my shoulder
@@jirkbraak Nice, That certainly would do the trick.
@SunsetWingman what did you make your bag out of?
@@adamwhite3821 marine vinyl from Joanne’s. Then eBay seat belt webbing around it for the straps
Looking forward to the update, with the longer pole. I flopped my H18, while sailing solo, and was unable to get it upright. Without an assist from a fisherman, probably would have been blown from the US to Canada hanging in the righting line. I picked up a 3 meter dingy mast as a starting point for my setup. Good luck and keep posting all this great info.
Thanks, Mk2 wasn't too successful either - I got to 210cm and it snapped! I'll get back on it soon!
The main thing I found since I've been Sailing since the seventies when they first invented the hobby sixteen. I found you have to have the bows into the wind. You have to swim the bows around where it's dead into the wind or even a little bit to the other side of the tramp to catch the wind and help it right the boat it helps so much it's easier to right the boat that way. Also you want your riding line to come from over the top of the hull where the chain plate side stay is so you're up higher and further out. From my experience. Thanks for all your hard work and videos. Have fun and God bless and be safe.
Yes, that revelation about the righting line coming from behind the chain plate where the hull is deepest makes a big difference - even with the bag, moving a little further back made it happen.
Capsized in a gust late last October towards the end of the day. Suffered the same thing for quite a while while getting colder and colder. A boat finally helped me out. Whenever I'm feeling uncomfortable I just take out the Hobie 14 - It comes right up!
Yes, there's nothing that will hold you back more than the thought that you can't right your boat.
Mk2 coming shortly
I had a Hobie 14 Turbo...the turbo means it had a jib. That boat was so much fun! Was orange with a very colorful sail. I stuffed the bow into a wave while hiked out at full speed...I flew around the mast and actually made the boat capsize on up of me! Was awesome!! Then one time I flipped it and forgot to pull the main sheet, when I righted it, it sailed away full speed. The jib kept it from going up into the wind. It sailed all the way across the lake and beached itself right in between two docks, no damage. The people in the boat were laughing all the way to my boat!
Telescopic pole be any use. With locking pins to extend and shorten to stow or bag on the end, but That’s more kit to carry.
Yeah, i'm going to look at a very long pole to see if it will actually work.
This happens on GUSTY LAKES.
You'll get knocked down from a random gust and then only see 8 knots for the next hour. I don't weigh much and have never successfully righted my Hobie 16 solo. Thank you for showing how hard this is, even for an experienced sailor. I need to get a bag and get comfortable using it.
Yeah for real.
The bag is a real game changer - the bigger the better\!
An interesting idea worth testing is probably 1. longer pole and/or 2. modify the line system from the bag so that you can hoist the bag to the tip of the righting pole, that should provide plenty of leverage.
Longer pole is now ready for testing!
Thanks for all the vids you post on cats. I just bought mine last Saturday. Im 68 and that workout righting a capsize looks so difficult for you. Im getting a workout just watching you. Dont know if I would be up for that much strain. Cheers.
It is much much easier once there's more wind!
@@JoyriderTV Thanks for the tip. Where I sail is a bay in Melbourne Australia. Ive already been down to my local sailing club . They race cats every weekend in summer so plenty of advice and info there.
I have a Baby Bob and it does help prevent turtling (which could do some damage to the top of the mast in water less than 28' deep) and it helps to keep the top of the mast higher in the water so it is easier to get the wind under the mainsail. I agree that the Baby Bob does add some weight out at the end of the mast, but I think it helps more than it hurts. I also like to have my bows pointed straight into the wind when uprighting so the wind will have to go under the jib and main sails which helps them lift the mast. If necessary, I will jump back in the water, hold the bow tang and then my body will act like an anchor/pivot for the boat to rotate around in the wind. Also as primarily a solo sailor, being 6'3" and 215 lbs helps with the leverage.
The mast float should be more of a flat board? Also helps against svirvels like a vinglet?
Yeah for sure - i think that having the sail unstuck from the water makes a big difference so the mast float will help a lot with that.
Or you can do styrofoam at the top of your mask too flat pieces at the top of the mass at the headboard on your main and it won't turtle.
What about trying a fibre glass telescopic painters pole. They can be pretty strong and quite long
Yeah, nice idea. I'll look into it.
been waiting for this one! Interested to see which design you went for. I was going to try the one that is basically a 2x4 that fits under the lip on the inside of the botton hull. You then walk out along it - walking the plank literally! - to get the righting momentum.
kind of like this one used on a Hobie 18
ua-cam.com/video/NwZZX2ka820/v-deo.html
I have a similar pole on my H16, but used a hand railing dowel (about 2 in. diameter) with a 1-foot piece of decking plank attached at right angles. Never used it because I am concerned the hull gunwale would break apart with the pressure of the pole under it.
Yes, someone else showd me the 'walking the plank' video - highly effective.
Hopefully mk2 will be successful
so 2 years later and I finally got round to making the 2x4 walk the plank righting pole and...it works a treat. Basic 2x4 was about 210cm or width of the tramp frame, a piece of cutting board screwed to the end of the board to go under the lip of the gunnel, One rope running around the top hull 3 ft back from the bow then out to the outward end of the board then back and over the hull behind the rear pylon. Ropes have clips on the ends to connect them in loops over the hulls. I'll find a link to add below to easier picture it. Even my skinny 55kg mate could do it. Downside is you have the board strapped to the front of the boat (attached to dolphin striker pole with bungees) which may not look great but this is offset by the absolute ease of righting the boat with it. First time I tested it there was a lot of faffing around to get it set up, took me 5 minutes, but the second time I had it from start to righted in 1:30. Absolute game changer for me being able to go out solo and have the confidence that I can get it right side up alone should I capsize.
similar system here using an aluminium pole instead of 2x4 but the mechanics are the same
ua-cam.com/video/c-sKvuICJ0I/v-deo.html&ab_channel=SailingRye
Interesting documentation of old discussions. The over the hull or straight from the pylon test on vid would be good. The math guys say it won't matter.
My pole is home made from a skinny windsurf mast as well. I filled the ends with hard foams and glassed them because it was splitting from the pressure on the line. The pole almost didn't work on a lightish air solo for me. Spassed on a jibe and flipped. The solution was to tie the pole to the hole for the daggerboard bungee and climb up on the pole.
Yes, I did some testing on land with different points of attachment ua-cam.com/video/oHIcLc7pssc/v-deo.html
I'm not sure if that's what you mean.
I gave up on the pole as the righting bag works so well and it's much less bulky.
Nice test Joe. In my opinion the pole will be effective if you can connect to the bow in the water, and step out over the pole, gaining distance from the boa.. Cheers.
Yes, that would certainly be more effective but a bit more difficult to put together.
we also used to put the wind at 90 to the trampoline , then it would get under the sail .. then hang on for dear life when it takes off
Yeah for sure. Very difficult to get the boat to turn with such light wind though
Joe, do you think you might get better leverage by having the force applied over the upper hull, by way of the righting line perhaps, rather than at the pylon? Also, the dogbone-to-loop connection appears to require steady tension to maintain, which eliminates one's ability to employ the "bouncing up and down" technique that can sometimes be helpful.
Next r&d video coming up!
As an engineer, I like your idea. I would advise you though, to make a little force analysis drawing. That will make clear that the difference between using the pole and the rope is pretty minimal at the moment. If you imagine your belly as the centre of weight, you will see it's not helping much. But if you move the centre of weight outwards by help of the pole, than it will actually work. Simply hang on the pole vertically and put your feet up so your don't float with any part of your body.
Thanks for the tips!
That's great, i'll do that.
I share your pain mate! I have tried both the bag and the pole and still can't self-right my Hobie 16 with my 85kg. I have to wait for a passing boatie! Cheers from NZ.
the bag works very well. If it's not happening, get a biggerr bag!
Very interesting idea, I like the way the pole is secured and retrieved! But as Jan-Leo points out, I doubt a longer pole will make any difference. As long as your feet are positioned on the lower hull, your centre of mass will not move outwards significantly. Also, how the pole is connected does not affect the leverage. You want more torque, which is distance times force. The water bag increases the force. To increase the distance you must move your centre of mass further outside, and grabbing the far end of a longer pole won't do it.
Maybe try wearing sneakers with 20 cm-thick soles??? ;-)
Thanks, that's very useful to hear a scientific explanation - that would be why the hull mounted pole is much more successful.
I'm testing a calibrated longer pole today so we'll see how that turns out!
@@JoyriderTV I'm glad you appreciate the comments! Please keep us posted, I'm eager to see how it turns out! BTW, I love your videos, thanks for your hard work!
Wouldn't you get more leverage if the pole went over the top hull like the capsize rope does? I've been thinking about building a 5or6 meter stitch and glue plywood cat a little heavier than a hobie for pocket cruising and wondering if I should include attachments for a righting pole on the outside of each hull. Maybe I could just tie it at the oarlocks
From watching other successful videos - it needs to be more like waking the plank - pole anchored by the lower hull - walk to the end and lean out from there - much like a daggerboard on a mono.
guys, a Hobie 16 can always be righted easily by one person. If the wind is strong enough to flip it then the wind is always strong enough to right it. Heres how : swim the boat around so the tip of the mast is pointed directly into the wind, loosen the main sheet and make sure it is free with no tension to the boom, swim to the stern of the boat and stand on the leeward pontoon as far aft as you can, the masthead will slowly creep above the water and eventually the wind will get under the mainsail and flip the boat back upright. You have to scramble aboard quickly or the boat will take off and leave you behind. No need for righting lines, sticks or water bags. Good luck guys and gals.
Thanks so much for the advice, that's really going to help.
Longer poles usually do have a greater affect or so I've heard.
Yes, i think that you're quite possibly right! I've got one - the mk2
Your joking right? That comment must be a joke. Everyone knows about leverage don’t they?
Excellent video although rather disappointing results for me at 68 kg, perhaps 71 kg with a shortie wetsuit. Do you think that someone in my case can consider using two bags at the same time? Or your pole invention as well as the bag technique used simultaneously.
I think a bigger righting bag should help you.
Hi Joe so in a nut shell, which is more faster and convenient solo up righting h16? righting bag or pole? im about 70kg, sail at taal lake philippines, do a lot of solo h16 sailing, but like any other h16 solo sailors, couldnt get it up once capsized, viewed all your helpful h16 schooling videos, kindly advise since duno which one to purchase, thanks!
The bag wins. Less to carry on the boat and more simple to use.
If you capsize in zero wind, you'll need 50 kg in the bag + your body weight.
In more wind you'll need less weight.
Thank you Joseph for the prompt response, will join your "show me your cat one of these days when get a chance :)"
Gee we used to tie a couple of 3L milk jugs to the top of the mast . Then after that we used a truck inner tube and a CO2 cartridge
Ha! Nice innovations!
Try righting with your weight near the stern of the boat where there is less bouyancy.
Interesting - i never tried that, i'll certainly give it a go. Thanks
Sweeeeeeeet!!!!!!
A long time coming
I also have a small concern about safety. Could the end of the pole grab some piece of clothing (specially loose clothes) and push you under the water when the boat is uprighted? This is a scary thought!!
That's certainly a scary thought - once i've made it work it'll be coming straight off and i'll be sticking to the bag!
Can you put a pulley on the end of the pole and hoist the bag up from the end of the pole then you have a bad pole combo, tasty!
You're not alone in wanting the pole bag combo. But i'm sold on bag only. Leave the pole on the beach!
Joseph Bennett an over complicated solution to a simple problem, always a good idea.... 😂
What if you had a line that you just attach to the trapeze wire during a capsize so instead of just pulling from the trampoline post, you could pull all the way up the mast?
I'll talk about this in the Q+A today, thanks.
@JoyriderTV
By chance did you happen to record the Q n A? I went out yesterday in balmy 65 degree water lol. Took a friend for his first sailing experience. We crashed 3 times, it was great lol. However, even with a combined weight of 200kg and strong winds, had a heck of a time righting the boat. I'm always looking for a better technique.
That is hilarious!
😆🤩
One thing to be aware with a pole under the tramp is that it hurts to step on it at every tack or when stepping the mast. Also after some time the friction will damage the tramp, not good at all. That won't happen in the case of the H16 on the video because it's under the lacing. I store the righting pole on my boat at one side, very close to the hull, where it won't be touching the tramp even when you stand on the tramp right above the pole. The good thing about righting poles is that they work, you just need to figure out the lenght.. I've found easier to use fit the "boat end" of the pole at water level and put my weight above it rather than hanging on it. So I sit above the pole and move backwards. It has to be stable side to side though. and the righting line may help, so don't call it obsolete yet. To fix that end of the pole you might have a carabiner set up at the pole end and a loop of rope at the boom corner, as long as the hull is not pressed by the pole. In my case I have a loop of rope at the end of the pole that I fit around the daggerboard. The system you are trying is easier to operate though, not a minor point in its favour.
Thanks for that. I'm onboard with you there with the low pole - this version seems to be quite ineffective. The low pole will be the next one.
Cheers
@@JoyriderTV Here is what I did, in case you find some of the ideas useful
ua-cam.com/video/DKuSSZ7JxBA/v-deo.html
The line is continuous, attached at both rear beam corners and passes through a ring at each front beam corner. Preset knots for the carabiner at each side. I put an eyestrap a the pole for the carabiner but wrap a line around it, I don't rely on attaching it directly to the eyestrap. I first tried with a take-away elastic but didnt like it. Today I just take all the excess of line at the rear and roll it around the pole, and hook it with the same elastic I use to attach the pole to the beam. For the H16 what I'd you is setting a length of line at the end of the pole which I would hook to a small loop of cord passed throuhg the tramp grommet for the trap bungee.
Whatever you do; pole, bag, gaining bodymass etc. only works if your centre of gravity gets out more... so longer pole is OK if you climb in it! And 'double whammy', where that came from?? Inspired by EvH??
Yes, looking at the picture makes it quite clear how my technique wasn't going to be successful - no difference to using the regular line.
Rob is right, as isJan Leo Kaak: as long as you have your feet on the hul it does not make any difference.
Still, I like your video's a lot, also because you demonstrate the fails as well: highly instuctive!
Very surprised to see you first try with a cleated main and jib: It wont work, but also if it works (two very heavy crew might) , it is dangerous: boat may tip over fiercely again or starts sailing before you are back on. (gues how I know!)
I think you would have better leverage/geometry if the pole mounted on the lower hull (instead of the dolphin striker) and the rope went over the bow (instead of under)
Ideally, the pole pushes on the point closest to where the boat will pivot (i.e., the hull in the water) and the pole pulls from the point furthest from the pivot (i.e., over the high hull)
Just a thought :-)
btw, I love these instructional videos - they are very informative and entertaining too :-)
Yes, i'm with you there. The reason i went for this design was for a quick, simple easy system that could be quickly dispatched.
Mk2 coming soon. If that doesn't work i'll be looking at the hull mounted version.
One of the problems with mounting the pole on the lower hull is that it will quickly become submerged during the uprighting process and loose it's leverage advantage.
*Can Y'all offer non metric numbers. Inches and such. Thanks Joseph.*
Yes,
I'll start doing that, I'm so metric over here -
I'm weighing in at 200lbs!!!
Longer pole (telescoping?) and then climb out to hang from the end, as far as you can, keeping your feet up. Inverted as you had done but, on a longer pole. I think you weren't too far from getting it. The actual arm length and weight combination should be discoverable. Then we can all make adjustments to get that effective leverage.
It'll probably require I remove my shoes to do that level of math.
Yes, best keep your shoes on at this time.
I've got the longer pole ready to go. Testing today.
Very good try. But longer pole Will also make it harder to grab from hull.
Yes, It also seems that the only way for this to work is to have a pole that can be stood on - kind of like a long daggerboard
You just need a slightly longer pole. it wouldn't take much - perhaps a foot or so.
Yeah that's what i felt, i've got the new pole ready to go!
That pole would've worked if there was enough wind to have actually capsized the boat!
Ha! Yes, I agree
How tall are you?
5'10
Oh no! Our brats are bad enough as they are! If they had a capsize pole they would never stop!😂
Yeah! There have to still be some benefits to being heavier!
Yes...Longer...Hobie masts could be made much lighter
👍
Hm, I am 71 kg. So +15 kg bag is probably Joe without bag.
Yes, you'll need a 50 kg bag
Potentially this could do a lot more harm than good stick to lines over the high hull
Not to mention it looks like a pain to deploy
Yeah, i'm a big fan of the bag as it's cleaner and perhaps safer. Less stuff to get hit by the waves under the boat has got to be a bonus.
Writing poll? Whu rights the transkript? 😂
That's thanks to Mr Google!
OMG! I am a 120 lb woman, Kiteboard and sailing instructor and can right my Hobie16 in less than 4 minutes by my self in low wind conditions, 6 knots. No water bag or righting pole needed. counterbalance you boat utilizing your trapeze wires with short uphaul attached. Always, always, head you boat to wind. Your sails sheeted and the wind will lift your sails and boat easily. This gentleman has absolutely no idea of how to do this!! I live in the Bahamas and own Stormfevre watersports.
That sounds pretty amazing,
I've sailed cats for over 30 years extensively and with a boat like a 16 it's always been difficult/impossible to right in low winds solo without assistance.
I've done over the years extensive research on the topic including having the sails sheeted in to various degrees, where to attach the righting line, angle off the boat to the wind and never could i right the boat in such light winds.
barbara are you suggesting that you trap out from the upside hull when the boat is on its side? i’m having a hard time picturing what you’re describing
Can you please elaborate on your technique? I'm not positive I understand your description.
Can you please give more details about your method? I am light and have trouble righting boats. Thanks.
I could have swam back to the beach faster.
I thought that myself - that's why i gave up on the idea
It doesn't matter what you're holding on to as long as you're standing on the bottom hull. Pole or line won't make a difference. Just physics and common sense honestly. What the pole could allow you to do is to get your feet off the boat and further out. Hanging from the pole will make the difference. This is so frustrating to watch.
Yes, you’re right....
Yes, even looking at the thumbnail it's quite obvious that it wouldn't m,ake any difference.
I'm going to use a longer pole to hang from in the next test - whole body on the pole - not on the hull.
I'm so embarrassed for you.
I'm embarrassed for myself.