The most insidious part of this episode is Renna isn't faking the compassion and desire for friendship with Egwene. She genuinely believes she is doing the right thing and Egwene deserves to be collared.
Yeah, she was genuinely angry when she was kicking Egwene, because she thought they'd just "had a moment" and was upset that Egwene didn't see it the same way. She thinks what she's doing is right
I love how you're trying to figure out how to get the collars off. This was such an emotional episode, and so difficult to watch Egwene and Ryma going through it.
This whole episode Egwene is trying to fake it, while Renna gives her accurate/correct instructions on how to touch the pitcher. As long as Egwene believes the pitcher to be a weapon, she cannot touch it. She doesn't have to intend to use it to attack Renna, she just has to hold on to the hope that she will one day be free. If she will one day be free, then that cup is a weapon, as any hard object you can swing around is. If she will never be free, then that cup could never be a weapon. The insidious and twisted thing about the a'dam is that you must give up hope to survive. The only way to pick up the pitcher is to be broken. Such a powerful episode, an incredible display of talent (and makeup!) from Madeleine Madden and the WoT team. Renna's performer was also excellent. I really loved how they just had the two of them and a pitcher of water. The little CG that was used - the a'dam activating and the tree burning - were solely there to serve the characters and story, and not for spectacle. It really feels like it was respecting the original work and the actors to approach it this way.
I disagree that picking up the pitcher means Egwene has accepted she will never be free. That it makes her broken. It just means that Egwene has convinced herself that she will never use a pitcher as a weapon. She is so defeated when she pours because she is on her way to being broken. One step closer. She grieves every inch she must give to survive the collar, but she has not given up hope.
As others have said, the A'dam works on intent. Not too dissimilar to the Three Oaths that the Aes Sedai take. If the Aes Sedai believes something to be true then she can say it even if it is objectively false. As long as Egwene thinks she can/will use the pitcher as a weapon the A'dam collar will "read her mind" and block her from touching it. Just like the A'dam blocked her from touching the collar to rip it open or blocked her from trying to touch the Bracelet or the leash.
The Sitter from the Blue Ajah at the end? Remember her? She's in the Hall in Ep5 and with Moiraine in the bathhouse telling her Moiraine need to stay in the Tower so that the Sitter can go investigate ships vanishing off the West coast. When hearing that many bookreaders started to wonder but then at the end of Ep8 when we saw the Seanchan create that Tidalwave at the westcoast we knew what would/had happened to Maigen. They planted her being captured as far back as that.
You're sooo cute! .. love your reaction and love how you try to talk to them to help them .... can tell you have a genuine heart ❤️... keep it up. You just gained a new subscriber
I cried like a baby for Ryma Sedai. The actress' facial expressions at the end got to me and I couldnt hold back. That was the most emotional episode for me. I both loved it, and I hated them for making such a good episode which would bring tears of pain in my eyes. I knew what was about to happen to Egwene and it still triggered me emotionally as well ... They are doing such a great job with the show. I love it so much. And thank you for your reactions, I love your WoT videos.
The thing that gets me the most in this episode is the Suldam demanding Egwene pour her a cup of water. I say that because through out the entire show water has been used as a metaphor of the female half of the one power, so in effect the Suldam is ordering Egwene to give her power to the Suldam.
Wow I never thought of this. Even the way they connect to One power is about submitting to the flow of something, something Egwene is good at, and yet that’s what’s expected of her as a Damane too. Her attachment to her own strengths is being perverted.
You are so smart and intuitive and picking up on so many things even book fans aren't picking up on. It really reinforces my belief that the show is doing a great job on getting the proper information across to have all the most important concepts and feels of the WoT books come across to viewers, even if the plot is only generally following the book plot. It's obviously hitting all the important parts to make it feel and look like WoT and get the necessary storyline where it should be. This is obviously mostly due to Joy's impressive ability to pick up on the clues, but it also speaks to the show creators' intelligence in crafting the story - if the most intelligent reactors like Joy are figuring out things even book readers aren't picking up on they're doing a great job! Other reactors need to step up their game! 😀
I mean, Liandrin "letting Lanfear do it" is really a charitable way to put it... Liandrin doesn't have one bit of a choice when it comes to stopping Lanfear; there is no a single thing she can do about it and she knows it... Like Moraine put it before: The Aes Sedai, any of them, even the strongest ones like Liandrin or Moreine herself, are no more than street magicians compared to the power and knowledge that The Forsaken hold or even to the potential that channelers like Nynaeve, Egwene and specially Rand have... The Aes Sedai are a bunch of children pretending they can move objects with the force (to make a starwars fandom reference) compared to these characters; even Logain, who isn't even close to Rand or Ishamael as a male channeller, completely overpowered a room with several of the most powerful Aes Sedai
Yeah, that's true, and I do know just how frightened you'd be in a room with Lanfear - for me it was more that she didn't even try to be like "hey, we're on the same side please don't" but then I guess with Lanfear you just kinda go with it...
As a book and show fan, I can say that explaining the relationship between sul'dam and damanae, or really ANYTHING about Seanchan culture would be potentially massive spoiler territory (said because I can't be sure what the show will adapt from the books or change). I will say you're on the right track about class; there is very much a caste system at work with the Seanchan. I'll give you this much, though. Sul'dam don't quite steal a damanae's power, they simply direct how the damanae channels their own power. For any further explanation, I have to fall back on one of Robert Jordan's favorite answers while the books were coming out, slightly modified: watch and find out. And yes, that frustrated us as much as it probably does you, lol.
You're right that Egwene’s final look is not defeat. It's fortification, determination, and fury. She is a character built in stages, and that look promises pain for the Seanchan. It's like she lifted to failure and needs to give her stubbornness muscles time to recoup, but they'll be twice as strong once she's had a breather. She's my fav.
Don’t read magister343 post! Spoilers way more fun to find out yourself. Great reaction as usual 😊 Very rough episode! They did a great job translating it to screen.
Don't worry about Perrin finding his friends. He has two things going for him: that great wolfy sense of smell and the the fact that he is Ta'veren and tugs on the pattern. (Think Rand and Mat meeting each other in a big city without looking for each other). Great insights as always!
The way i took it, the sul'dam has no power at all. What they've done, is been highly trained as specialist soldiers. They're trained what to do, when, how, etc.; but can't do it themselves. So what they do is catch themselves a damane, whom they don't even view as people, but tools/weapons; collar them, and break them. Then the damane exists solely to do what they are instructed to do by the sul'dam. The sul'dam then has the one power by proxy. Kill that person? Burn that tree? The sul'dam merely uses their pet damane to do it. It's the sul'dam's will executed through the damane, who no longer has any will or life of their own. Liker a soldier with their gun, the gun has no will, it does nothing on it's own, it's an inanimate object; but the soldier uses the gun to carry out their will. The damane is a gun.
As for your question on the Sul’dam being powered that’s a WAFO (watch and find out). We should learn more about their relationship with the Damane this season hopefully.
What made this worse for me is the sudden realisation of how long channelers can live before dying of natural causes. Imagine being with the Seanchan for that long..
You have such great theories and questions! I love listening to your thoughts and hearing your conclusions and theories! Also, Maddeline deserves all the awards for her acting this episode.
This episode was rough - but I am glad they did this particular storyline justice as hard as it was to watch. The way that the a'dam adds an extra, horrific, layer to this form of slavery is awful - they condition them to the point where they can't even imagine an alternate existance. They force the damane to literally reprogram their own brains. It's horrific.
I dont know why, but I genuinely enjoy your reactions. When I see you reacting to the shows that I like, i get so happy that I can rewatch them alongside you haha. Lots of love for you x
Don’t read magister’s comment. It gives away too much. 1) I love the fast turnaround on this episode. 😂 You couldn’t wait and I’m here for it. 2) I love how you are internalizing the story and characters and repeatedly used “we” or “us” instead of other pronouns. Not sure if it was intentional or not, but I love it! 3) Now you understand why most of the posts on TwiXter the morning after this aired were mental health wellness checks. People were Not Okay.
There's literally nothing Liandrin could do to stop Lanfear. Lanfear is many times stronger than her with the One Power, (she has more raw strength than Nynaeve), she's also centuries older and has the experience of using the power during the age of legends. To her, any modern Aes Sedai is effectively an ignorant child.
@@tw7998 Nynaeve can match maybe two or three of the female Forsaken. Not Lanfear. Lanfear is surmised to be as powerful as a woman can possibly be in the One Power. There's several people in the books stronger than her (like Lanfear, Graendal, Alivia, and Sharina).
@@chocopuddingcup83 Yup agreed, my point was simply that the gap between Nynaeve and female forsaken isnt as huge in terms of raw power ... i cant really answer this more fully without spoilering the reactor. but good to see so many book fans watching tv reactions.
Oh I know, I just thought she could have tried to be like "We're on the same side, maybe don't"... but I guess with Lanfear even that might not have been an option!
I can help you with your comments to filter out spoilers if you would like. I’m not all the way done with the books yet, but I am far enough in that I should be able to filter out most of the major spoilers.
Liandrin knew that death was better for her son with eternal life but not eternal youth, but she just couldn't let go of him by herself, so that's why she didn't object more than Lanfear killed him, because she knew it was a mercy killing for him.
Rand wasn't letting Lanfear manipulate him at the start of the episode, she just threatened to kill Moiraine if he didn't stay away, so he is doing that. Moreover he also realizes the moves Moiraine has been making to manipulate things. All of that is good cuz it means Rand is now seeing through some manipulation. You might have an infinite amount of trust in Moiraine to do the right thing, but why should Rand, especially considering how she and Siuan caused him to release Ishamael in the first place. Also Aes Sedai in general are hardly trustworthy. Not to mention as the Dragon it is very important for Rand to see through these things and be able to stand on his own. And it was Moiraine who suggested they try to use Lanfear to get insider info. You can't then not expect Rand to continue playing along. He already knows they are trying to manipulate him into going Falme in the end as he told Mat, but their options are limited right now anyway.
A very unfair question that probably needs an essay to form a reply haha I think I'd need to know more about them both too! I would say they're very different forms of evil and so quite hard to directly compare!
We are gonna get thru this! Made me almost cry again! My Friends are your friends now. 😊 And this is just the beginning😅 I don‘t know if you said it, but have you started to read the books?
THERE ARE MAJOR SPOILERS IN YOUR COMMENTS. DON'T READ THEM! I mentioned this on Twitter but cos you're so awesome youre getting more seen and sadly there is a small but thorough group of people who seem to like massively spoiling newbies. Plus a bunch of overenthusiatic people who dont always think before they speak. So i hope you can find someone to check your comments before reading them. Thats what others had had to do sadly. It's worth it to experience awesome reveals and discoveries at the right time.
@@cait_beanWhat a boss! How many show-only watchers are you modding at this point? Because I feel like I see you as a mod for multiple non-reader reactors that I have been watching.
i don't get why some of the show only audience is like "rand, your dreams will never happen" like, how do you know that? the show keeps telling you that it WILL happen lol. and for a good reason. i don't think you all get the gravity of the situation. maybe the show is not doing the best job at telling you but it has been like 50 times this is mentioned. maybe you all think this is a much more stereotypical story or something....
It takes time to understand how dreams, visions, foretellings, T’A’R, etc. all work and how they differ. You certainly don’t fully understand them by the end of Book3. Why would you expect viewers to fully understand the nuances of them by the end of Season 2. Let the story and lore develop. That’s part of the fun.
![POWDER WENT THROUGH THE CRAZIEST GLOW UP - Let's Watch: Arcane - [S1]E4](/img/n.gif)
The most insidious part of this episode is Renna isn't faking the compassion and desire for friendship with Egwene. She genuinely believes she is doing the right thing and Egwene deserves to be collared.
Yeah, she was genuinely angry when she was kicking Egwene, because she thought they'd just "had a moment" and was upset that Egwene didn't see it the same way. She thinks what she's doing is right
They told us in season 1 Egwene is unbreakable. The look on her face in the end makes me believe she knows she lost that battle but not the war.
I love how you're trying to figure out how to get the collars off. This was such an emotional episode, and so difficult to watch Egwene and Ryma going through it.
This whole episode Egwene is trying to fake it, while Renna gives her accurate/correct instructions on how to touch the pitcher. As long as Egwene believes the pitcher to be a weapon, she cannot touch it. She doesn't have to intend to use it to attack Renna, she just has to hold on to the hope that she will one day be free. If she will one day be free, then that cup is a weapon, as any hard object you can swing around is. If she will never be free, then that cup could never be a weapon. The insidious and twisted thing about the a'dam is that you must give up hope to survive. The only way to pick up the pitcher is to be broken.
Such a powerful episode, an incredible display of talent (and makeup!) from Madeleine Madden and the WoT team. Renna's performer was also excellent. I really loved how they just had the two of them and a pitcher of water. The little CG that was used - the a'dam activating and the tree burning - were solely there to serve the characters and story, and not for spectacle. It really feels like it was respecting the original work and the actors to approach it this way.
I disagree that picking up the pitcher means Egwene has accepted she will never be free. That it makes her broken. It just means that Egwene has convinced herself that she will never use a pitcher as a weapon. She is so defeated when she pours because she is on her way to being broken. One step closer. She grieves every inch she must give to survive the collar, but she has not given up hope.
As others have said, the A'dam works on intent. Not too dissimilar to the Three Oaths that the Aes Sedai take. If the Aes Sedai believes something to be true then she can say it even if it is objectively false. As long as Egwene thinks she can/will use the pitcher as a weapon the A'dam collar will "read her mind" and block her from touching it. Just like the A'dam blocked her from touching the collar to rip it open or blocked her from trying to touch the Bracelet or the leash.
The Sitter from the Blue Ajah at the end? Remember her?
She's in the Hall in Ep5 and with Moiraine in the bathhouse telling her Moiraine need to stay in the Tower so that the Sitter can go investigate ships vanishing off the West coast. When hearing that many bookreaders started to wonder but then at the end of Ep8 when we saw the Seanchan create that Tidalwave at the westcoast we knew what would/had happened to Maigen.
They planted her being captured as far back as that.
You're sooo cute! .. love your reaction and love how you try to talk to them to help them .... can tell you have a genuine heart ❤️... keep it up. You just gained a new subscriber
There is a massive series of spoilers in the comments section by @magister343 below. Don’t read it!
I hope you see this before the comment!
May I just give you a huge hug? We book readers have been dreading this for a long time.
I cried like a baby for Ryma Sedai. The actress' facial expressions at the end got to me and I couldnt hold back. That was the most emotional episode for me. I both loved it, and I hated them for making such a good episode which would bring tears of pain in my eyes. I knew what was about to happen to Egwene and it still triggered me emotionally as well ... They are doing such a great job with the show. I love it so much. And thank you for your reactions, I love your WoT videos.
The thing that gets me the most in this episode is the Suldam demanding Egwene pour her a cup of water. I say that because through out the entire show water has been used as a metaphor of the female half of the one power, so in effect the Suldam is ordering Egwene to give her power to the Suldam.
Wow I never thought of this. Even the way they connect to One power is about submitting to the flow of something, something Egwene is good at, and yet that’s what’s expected of her as a Damane too. Her attachment to her own strengths is being perverted.
@@kimcarragher5784oh yes it's a twisted version of the way woman channel. They are horrid
Yes! Thank you! I am glad I am not the only one who noticed the look of defiance in the final scene.
You are so smart and intuitive and picking up on so many things even book fans aren't picking up on. It really reinforces my belief that the show is doing a great job on getting the proper information across to have all the most important concepts and feels of the WoT books come across to viewers, even if the plot is only generally following the book plot. It's obviously hitting all the important parts to make it feel and look like WoT and get the necessary storyline where it should be. This is obviously mostly due to Joy's impressive ability to pick up on the clues, but it also speaks to the show creators' intelligence in crafting the story - if the most intelligent reactors like Joy are figuring out things even book readers aren't picking up on they're doing a great job! Other reactors need to step up their game! 😀
I mean, Liandrin "letting Lanfear do it" is really a charitable way to put it... Liandrin doesn't have one bit of a choice when it comes to stopping Lanfear; there is no a single thing she can do about it and she knows it... Like Moraine put it before: The Aes Sedai, any of them, even the strongest ones like Liandrin or Moreine herself, are no more than street magicians compared to the power and knowledge that The Forsaken hold or even to the potential that channelers like Nynaeve, Egwene and specially Rand have... The Aes Sedai are a bunch of children pretending they can move objects with the force (to make a starwars fandom reference) compared to these characters; even Logain, who isn't even close to Rand or Ishamael as a male channeller, completely overpowered a room with several of the most powerful Aes Sedai
All true. 💯
Yeah, that's true, and I do know just how frightened you'd be in a room with Lanfear - for me it was more that she didn't even try to be like "hey, we're on the same side please don't" but then I guess with Lanfear you just kinda go with it...
As a book and show fan, I can say that explaining the relationship between sul'dam and damanae, or really ANYTHING about Seanchan culture would be potentially massive spoiler territory (said because I can't be sure what the show will adapt from the books or change). I will say you're on the right track about class; there is very much a caste system at work with the Seanchan.
I'll give you this much, though. Sul'dam don't quite steal a damanae's power, they simply direct how the damanae channels their own power. For any further explanation, I have to fall back on one of Robert Jordan's favorite answers while the books were coming out, slightly modified: watch and find out.
And yes, that frustrated us as much as it probably does you, lol.
You're right that Egwene’s final look is not defeat. It's fortification, determination, and fury. She is a character built in stages, and that look promises pain for the Seanchan. It's like she lifted to failure and needs to give her stubbornness muscles time to recoup, but they'll be twice as strong once she's had a breather. She's my fav.
Don’t read magister343 post! Spoilers way more fun to find out yourself.
Great reaction as usual 😊 Very rough episode! They did a great job translating it to screen.
Don't worry about Perrin finding his friends. He has two things going for him: that great wolfy sense of smell and the the fact that he is Ta'veren and tugs on the pattern. (Think Rand and Mat meeting each other in a big city without looking for each other). Great insights as always!
You are spoiling us with how fast you are uploading these! Thank you for an amazing reaction as always! ❤
The way i took it, the sul'dam has no power at all. What they've done, is been highly trained as specialist soldiers. They're trained what to do, when, how, etc.; but can't do it themselves. So what they do is catch themselves a damane, whom they don't even view as people, but tools/weapons; collar them, and break them. Then the damane exists solely to do what they are instructed to do by the sul'dam. The sul'dam then has the one power by proxy. Kill that person? Burn that tree? The sul'dam merely uses their pet damane to do it. It's the sul'dam's will executed through the damane, who no longer has any will or life of their own. Liker a soldier with their gun, the gun has no will, it does nothing on it's own, it's an inanimate object; but the soldier uses the gun to carry out their will. The damane is a gun.
When I watched the episode by myself on Thursday I thought of you and knew you’d be stressed. I love how you love these kids.
I cried. I cried lots. Still do, watching others reacting to this episode.
As for your question on the Sul’dam being powered that’s a WAFO (watch and find out). We should learn more about their relationship with the Damane this season hopefully.
It's a shame that seasons s are not 10 episodes. There is so much story to cover.
What made this worse for me is the sudden realisation of how long channelers can live before dying of natural causes. Imagine being with the Seanchan for that long..
You have such great theories and questions! I love listening to your thoughts and hearing your conclusions and theories! Also, Maddeline deserves all the awards for her acting this episode.
This episode was rough - but I am glad they did this particular storyline justice as hard as it was to watch. The way that the a'dam adds an extra, horrific, layer to this form of slavery is awful - they condition them to the point where they can't even imagine an alternate existance. They force the damane to literally reprogram their own brains. It's horrific.
The sul dam-damane relationship is spoilers at least maybe until the next two episodes. But the show may wait a bit to explore that.
i know some of you know me, so stop with the spoilers if you want your comment to survive ;)
19:50 did you notice the literal "Crown of Swords"
I dont know why, but I genuinely enjoy your reactions. When I see you reacting to the shows that I like, i get so happy that I can rewatch them alongside you haha. Lots of love for you x
Amazing review!! You speak just how I feel, quite a relief to see someone with the same views.
Don’t read magister’s comment. It gives away too much.
1) I love the fast turnaround on this episode. 😂 You couldn’t wait and I’m here for it.
2) I love how you are internalizing the story and characters and repeatedly used “we” or “us” instead of other pronouns. Not sure if it was intentional or not, but I love it!
3) Now you understand why most of the posts on TwiXter the morning after this aired were mental health wellness checks. People were Not Okay.
Agree completely. Ignore Mr Spoiler. They are ruining the experience for Joy. She needs to learn about Seachan as we did throughout reading the books.
You are so empathetic. Love your wot reaction
There's literally nothing Liandrin could do to stop Lanfear. Lanfear is many times stronger than her with the One Power, (she has more raw strength than Nynaeve), she's also centuries older and has the experience of using the power during the age of legends. To her, any modern Aes Sedai is effectively an ignorant child.
Agree with all of that except i would point out Nynaeve can match a forsaken (female) in raw power.
@@tw7998 Nynaeve can match maybe two or three of the female Forsaken. Not Lanfear. Lanfear is surmised to be as powerful as a woman can possibly be in the One Power. There's several people in the books stronger than her (like Lanfear, Graendal, Alivia, and Sharina).
@@chocopuddingcup83 Yup agreed, my point was simply that the gap between Nynaeve and female forsaken isnt as huge in terms of raw power ... i cant really answer this more fully without spoilering the reactor. but good to see so many book fans watching tv reactions.
Oh I know, I just thought she could have tried to be like "We're on the same side, maybe don't"... but I guess with Lanfear even that might not have been an option!
I knew this would be a tough episode for you to watch.
Hard episode to watch, but so well acted. I enjoyed the reaction again!
I can help you with your comments to filter out spoilers if you would like. I’m not all the way done with the books yet, but I am far enough in that I should be able to filter out most of the major spoilers.
Thank you very much for the offer, but I literally just made another regular commentor a moderator to help with that! ❤
Liandrin knew that death was better for her son with eternal life but not eternal youth, but she just couldn't let go of him by herself, so that's why she didn't object more than Lanfear killed him, because she knew it was a mercy killing for him.
A lot of tears 😭
Rand wasn't letting Lanfear manipulate him at the start of the episode, she just threatened to kill Moiraine if he didn't stay away, so he is doing that. Moreover he also realizes the moves Moiraine has been making to manipulate things. All of that is good cuz it means Rand is now seeing through some manipulation. You might have an infinite amount of trust in Moiraine to do the right thing, but why should Rand, especially considering how she and Siuan caused him to release Ishamael in the first place. Also Aes Sedai in general are hardly trustworthy. Not to mention as the Dragon it is very important for Rand to see through these things and be able to stand on his own. And it was Moiraine who suggested they try to use Lanfear to get insider info. You can't then not expect Rand to continue playing along. He already knows they are trying to manipulate him into going Falme in the end as he told Mat, but their options are limited right now anyway.
This may be a bit of an unfair question, but who do you consider worse - Lanfear or Renna (Egwene's sul'dam)?
A very unfair question that probably needs an essay to form a reply haha I think I'd need to know more about them both too! I would say they're very different forms of evil and so quite hard to directly compare!
Please don’t read magister343 comments, as others have pointed out they have lots of spoilers
We are gonna get thru this! Made me almost cry again! My Friends are your friends now. 😊 And this is just the beginning😅 I don‘t know if you said it, but have you started to read the books?
🫂
THERE ARE MAJOR SPOILERS IN YOUR COMMENTS. DON'T READ THEM!
I mentioned this on Twitter but cos you're so awesome youre getting more seen and sadly there is a small but thorough group of people who seem to like massively spoiling newbies. Plus a bunch of overenthusiatic people who dont always think before they speak.
So i hope you can find someone to check your comments before reading them. Thats what others had had to do sadly. It's worth it to experience awesome reveals and discoveries at the right time.
Thank you! Someone else let me know as well and offered to be my moderator and so I did not enter these comments until she'd cleared them! 💕
@@JoyScott13Reacts oh that's wonderful, what a hero!
Rapunzl and I are ON IT
@@cait_bean truly doing the Light's work!
@@cait_beanWhat a boss! How many show-only watchers are you modding at this point? Because I feel like I see you as a mod for multiple non-reader reactors that I have been watching.
i don't get why some of the show only audience is like "rand, your dreams will never happen" like, how do you know that? the show keeps telling you that it WILL happen lol. and for a good reason. i don't think you all get the gravity of the situation. maybe the show is not doing the best job at telling you but it has been like 50 times this is mentioned. maybe you all think this is a much more stereotypical story or something....
It takes time to understand how dreams, visions, foretellings, T’A’R, etc. all work and how they differ. You certainly don’t fully understand them by the end of Book3. Why would you expect viewers to fully understand the nuances of them by the end of Season 2.
Let the story and lore develop. That’s part of the fun.
I'm the third