@@metraking192actually there have apparently been engineers that have pushed this thing to go over 130 to almost 140, enough to break some of the valves in the steam engine, I’d look at the Wikipedia article and some of its sources, these things were fast!
l remember back in 50's being with my parent's car backseat and watching them go through the road rr crossings and l was mesmerized by them..A few years later l got my 1st model HO train set and with my paper route bought lots of locos and rr car kits hand made from Japan of brass(u could see the rivets) and cars made with wood, tin and lead(paint was leaded). In early 60's built a layout in my BR and l use to sleep under it!..l still have those precious locos and assembled rr car kits and hope to build a BIG layout in my basement to occupy my late retirement years. l use to go to Scanton Pa(Steamtown).So needless to say l'm still a rr steam nut
@@carltorjusen558 wow, thank you for the wonderful detail! So glad you still have them and hope you see your mission accomplished! There's just something about trains, these mighty machines, set against the backdrop of our beautiful America!
My dad was a fireman for the Pennsylvania from 1950 through 1954. Although the T’s were all but gone in Pittsburgh by then, it is still my favorite passenger locomotive. My dad did fire K-4’s and J-1’s. Toward the end of his career he did get his engineers papers. I only wish he were to be here for 5550.
There's a couple more in the videos, another one at 2:40 when everything slips. It sounds like a sewing machine and yes this could overspeed the valves quite easily. However with modern technology wheel slip could be detected and corrected with a Raspberry Pi and a few sensors. Like the anti-version of ABS, Antilock Slip System (ASS)
Whenever I see these, I'm amazed at how massive its tender is - it's nearly the same size as the locomotive. I'm also struck by how low to its trucks it rides - a lowrider tender.
The streamlining covers up most of the trucks similar to the tenders used on the NYC Dreyfuss Hudson. They look closer to the rail than they actually are, but for a tender of that size, it still amazes me.
If the original film this was shot on still exists you should see if it can be found and re-scanned. Re-scanned old film can usually mean that it'll allow for it to be shown in HD. Really important for archival purposes if the film can be found.
There were 2 T-1 versions. The first was the "Buick" model having 3 portholes on the front skirt. The second had a front end design modification and it was the most numerous. Both versions were tremendous performers and earned a great reputation.
@@themeparkreconnoiter9787 that sure is a Timeless classic design Style by adding the portholes just like my grand uncles 1946 Buick convertible never goes out of style .
T1 got to be my favourite US Locos. Challengers and Big Boys are great, but T1s, given the same conditions, are the ones that could have given Mallard a run for her money. (UK viewer). Thanks.
@@Peasmouldia Hi Ian what i love about the T1 is how it makes a grunting sound like a bad ass wild boar charging down on you it sounds mean as hell. Listen to it & hear for yourself.✌✌
As much of a diehard PRR fan I am, I would’ve loved to see this done to an existing survivor such as M1 #6755 or I1sa #4483. The M1 being the best locomotives the PRR ever owned (quoted by many workers of the railroad), and the I1sa being the monsters they were. 4483 underwent major overhaul shortly before retirement. Like I said, maybe these other routes would’ve been less expensive by miles. Then again, this is a dream come true. Standard Railroad Forever 🙏🏽
@@theextremeanimator4721 I know, right?! We should just bring back steam for certain things like luxury rail travel. Only problem is, it costs a lot to keep them running. But, fortunately, we have an army of steamheads who are willing to make the sacrifice to keep these beautiful machines moving!
A few years ago I would've thought this was crazy! Then Dave Kloke built two 1860's 4-4-0's in his machine shop and restorations began on a UP Big Boy. N&W 611 and a C&O articulated are also being restored! Where to run? I'd focus on NS and maybe CSX as possible lines. No, a T-1 isn't the loco of my dreams, but a worthy project, just the same! If they can build this, maybe Maryland & Pennsylvania #6 might someday see the rails!
I only saw one or two engines having slipping issues. For the most part, big trains, clear stacks and just doing their thing. Loved the fast run-bys! All the best to you in bringing one back to life!
Not only is that some great Pennsy footage (love the double-headed K4 extra special bonus), but it's some great steam era St. Louis footage, which can be surprisingly hard to come by. Thank you for posting this!
In my youth, where I lived, most trains were electric (PRR), some work units were diesel, a steam loco came through and had all the neighbors PO'd. There were black cinder specks all over everything. Laundry hanging out on clotheslines all had to be redone.
THE most beautiful steam locomotive every built, IMHO. I have two Bowser HO models myself, one mostly assembled and running (still gotta ad the super-detail parts and paint her) and the second one is still new in the box. It was one of only five T1's left 'on the shelf in front of me' according to the guy I spoke with at Bowser, when they quit making steam locomotives there. Someday hopefully I'll have both of them finished and running. Magnificent little machines even in HO scale... I could only imagine how spectacular they must've been in real life.
I had no idea the PRR went all the way to union station in STL. That is really really cool. Too bad the station is no longer an actual train functioning train station.
I love the look of those locos. I remember seeing them when I was very young. I lived right on a Pennsy line in western PA. There is something scary about them, I don't know why.
@@kkhagerty6315 Thinking about it, I would say that the styling was sleek, industrial, and impersonal. I knew the previous look of locomotives and I understood them, but these were different.
I don't find that hard to believe though. Maintenance of this behemoth costed a lot both in funds and manpower and their design couldn't be improved any further. More power meant higher axle loads, bigger boilers (and thus reduced visibility) and in the end, operational complexity that was overly expensive when compared to diesels. It would be nice to see one T1 preserved, but the post-steam era in the US was a time when lots of unique locomotives were scrapped without second thought. These steam locomotives make their European counterparts look like toys.
Yeah, the main problem is the stupid 4-4-4-4 wheel set on a fused axle....just removed any value of using sets of 4, causing low traction and bad turn radius. The other problem is the drain of pressure those two sets of pistons had, leading to fast speeds, then slow low pressured running with wheel slip and grinding.
TomsTradeTable And the fact that the people behind this project think they can beat LNER A4 Mallard’s speed record with such a locomotive as this is embarrassing. A locomotive for heavy passenger and freight trains, sure, but to break the top speed record? No. Just no.
a vast majority of the T1's issues were do to abuse from engineers who were used to running underpowered K class locomotives. The Norfolk and Western tested T1 5511, and noted that it did have a higher fuel and water consumption per horsepower than an N&W J, and it required more maintenance than they thought a modern steamer should require. They even made the suggestion to the PRR to change the valve gear over to Baker valve gear like they used on the J to lower maintenance cost. T1 5511 did have trouble starting a train on a grade the J class had no issues with, but that was due to its tall drivers (80" vs. 70" on the J class). In the end, PRR's pride and ignorance killed the T1, and led to its short career.
Beautiful beasts I love their sounds. Time to do another drawing of them so far I have revisited their brothers the Q1 & Q2 over the past couple of years.
What is going on in that last segment, at about 4:18, where the T-1 is belching big clouds of smoke while running on flat ground? What was the fuel efficiency of a T-1 compared to a K-4?
Great video and footage! The best passenger steam locomotive ever built--Awesome! Truly my favorite. I have two O-gauge scale models running on my layout. I would love more news about the progress of the building of the locomotive. Are you building it in Juniata or Philiadelphia?
It will be impressive to see the new one when it's built. All the issues can be addressed. And the rumors of its record breaking speeds can be put to the test. Now my question is: will they attempt to coal fire it or will they take the safe route to avoid track side fire hazards and oil fire it like UP has done to 844, 3985 and 4014?
May someone explain to me what the white on the T1 is at 1:27? Has it something to do with the saftey valves? Or did someone throw a pot of paint at it from an overhead bridge.
Yep, its easily pushing 110+ mph there. It takes just 3 seconds to pass 4 poles which have by my best guess at least 120+ feet distance between each pole given how it looks like each one is around the length of the locomotive itself? So doing some math it passes by all 4 within the course of 3 seconds. Thats pushing 110 miles an hour at the minimal. Depends how far the distance between each pole is. They do say the T1 is capable of pushing into the 140 range given the right conditions and some unverified runs back in the day claiming to having done so. But thats what the recommissioning of the T1 trusts T1 is all about, breaking that record.
Nothing compared to the s1. it was rumored that one had reached 156 mphs. dwarfing this and basically t-bagging on mallards speed record of ‘125 mphs’. Personally, I believe this theory because they were honestly pretty fast steam engines. And their streamlining probably gave them better aerodynamics and and more speed.
@@mcfc_lads1894 How in the heck would a locomotive so long that it could only be used on one route and had catastrophic wheelslip issues, along with a complete inability to tilt reach 156 MPH? There are like 30 miles of the freaking NEC where the Acela express, an actual HST can even reach those speeds. That theory's total BS.
Absolutely. As an afterthought BTW, Gresley had planned an attempt to break his own record w/c 4th September 1939. Unfortunately something rather big got in the way...
I wouldn't say it's the formula one of steam locomotives because it's a very large and tall engine, but the T-1 is a very interesting and to me, a gorgeous locomotive.
If I had to guess, over 110 MPH. It passes by 4 poles in the matter of 3 some odd seconds watching the video and the timer. The distance between each pole is around the length of the engine itself, so you can easily rough estimate the speed it was traveling at. The T1 engine is 122 feet long not including the tender. So 122 x 4 / 3 = 162.6 feet per second. A mile is 5280 feet meaning 5280 / 162.6 = 32.4+ seconds to travel an entire mile at that speed. An hour is made up of 3600 seconds, 3600 / 32.4 = 111.1 mph.
Some say they are the fastest steam engines that ever ran an up to 125mph might actually have been achieved in their 4/5 years of actual service. Most would go for a Chapeleon Pacific or the NW J which was designed to be stable at 145mph on the Pennsylvania main line and was probably a more realistic idea for the last steam but the NW line at the time was steep and ran through nowhere the deepest Apalachia, so only the first 100 miles out of Norfolk Virginia the great US Navy port would see them fly. Thats what I se those NW express engines as the transport to the US Navy at Norfolk, connecting with the Penn at Cincinati. That Navy passenger traffic is what probably made the NW passenger service plus the US Mail until 1970 and the Amtrak takeover.
The J was designed to be stable to 100mph. PRR bporrowed a J and blew out the right side baker valve gear on 610 trying to go past where N&W told them.
It's sad to know that the Pennsylvania railroad scrapped the t1 and really who dosent get emotional especially if they love steam locomotives to hear the words they never escaped the cutting torch
A phrase I've heard sadly too often in Wisconsin. The Milwaukee Road scrapped ALL the Class A's and F7's that hauled the Hiawatha, which was an outright tragedy. I doubt I'll see any efforts to recreate one of them in my lifetime.
If these PRR T-1 locomotives really can hit 140 mph(224 km/h), then they could break Mallard, the fastest steam locomotive ever(fastest speed, 126 mph/201.6km/h). I'm support this T1 Trust Project, and I hope and wish this is going to break it.
The sounds are recorded from Union Pacific Challengers, I believe. The bell is what gave it away. Still, the actual film is more important than the sound, in my opinion.
From my maths, over 110mph @ 3:58 since the train length is known thus you can calculate the distance between each pole, so you can easily calculate the speed which I came to an approx average of over 110. It passes by 120+ feet of distance between each pole, passing by 4 poles in only 3 some seconds. Giving you a min potential 110 mph.
Quite a few years back there was an article in Trains magazine written by a retired PRR employee concerning the absolutely last time that he was called to fire a T1. Long story short he and the engineer connived to “see what she could do” between stations on a 20 mile straight and flat section of track in OH or IN. They knew that drawing a T1 at that point was unusual as almost none were still in steam and had to mean that there was a power imbalance somewhere in the system. They both realized that this job might be the last of the last with a T1. From a standing start to a stop at the next station they were told by the superintendant that they has averaged 119 MPH. The engine man said that the speedometer was pegged much of the way. The superintendant gave them the expected chewing out then winked and said something like “I always expected that a T1 could do that if you just let her run”. “Just don’t do it again”. I saved the article and if I find it I’ll post. It probably ran in the magazine back in the 1970’s.
And that's one other reason why I don't support this project, other than their plans to break Mallard's record of 126 mph. Ludicrous, absolutely ludicrous.
@@AndrewHager02 Wheel slip was usually corrected when T1 engineers got a feel of how the throttle affected the engine. It was usually easy to jump the gun.
Great video. I am in Australia and plan to build a large PRR railroad. I am looking at Buffalo do to all the businesses there. Is there a better place to build? The era is 1950 - 1960 preferably Steam.
The T1 was designed to operate anywhere on the PRR mainline circa 1942. With the original lateral motion configuration, the T1 could negotiate 16 degree curves, and according to the timetable, could operate in areas where even the M1 was restricted. Based on the lateral motion increases of 1946 and the overall dimensions, we're confident that the T1 can operate anywhere on the current mainline network that the N&W J class can. For more information: prrt1steamlocomotivetrust.org/faq.php
Dan Fitzgerald ok, that's just hogwash. this engine is NOT a poor choice to build from scratch, with all the myths surrounding this class finally being debunked, 5550 would, if built, finally address them all. as for a poor choice, HA, choosing to recreate Illinois central no.1 is a poor choice. at least the T1 had SOME success, IC no.1 was a terrible choice for freight. also, saw your comment about how this loco couldn't be driven anywhere unless articulated, I already said on here T1 5511 was tested on the Norfolk and Western, if a T1 can go on the same tracks as N&W 611, it doesn't need articulating.
If you guys pull this off it will be amazing. I have always loved the look of the old T1's, but when I found out there were no existing locomotives left I was disappointed. Don't listen to what those people who criticize this beautiful locomotive tell you. This locomotive was a great choice. Hopefully someday I will be able to see it run.
+hiawathabeast You said it! I found that the wheel slippage was caused by spring equilization. The bogie trucks held the same weight as the engine trucks which means that the adhesion was terrible. The 6900 horsepower in a loco the size of a northern didn't help either. The excessive wheel slip wore the poppets much quicker than they should have. Basically, fix the adhesion and all the other problems will be fine.
This is why I don't get why people are so upset about you guys building a T1 instead of a Q2. The Q2s might've had the highest recorder horsepower for a rigid steamer, but they were extremely heavy (less route availability than a J1) and had standard Baker valve gear; must've cause a ton of hammer blow. Sure the T1s cost a lot of time to maintain, but they were the ultimate passenger engines. Two sets of drivers and they didn't need to go through the complexity of being articulated. Besides, with a T1, there's a guarantee that you can actually run it somewhere. Where would you run a Q2 exactly? Maybe out west, but most of the Western steamers are oil burners.
What are you going to do with 5550 when it's done? Steam-hauled excursions are quite hard to pull off nowadays. Maybe 5550 will have less restrictions since it's a new build, or the Strasburg railroad could provide it a permanent home. But it will be great to see a new steamer in the States either way.
iron 13 the hard part is insurance. Until recently, they could get insurance with Amtrak etc which is how 4449 and others were able to operate by meeting Amtrak standards. UP can ignore all of it since they own and insure all of their own equipment and track. And of course, running at high speeds is even harder since most tracks are rated for 60mph hour or less unless they are used by passenger trains and even then most don't operate above 60. Hopefully building with these goals in mind from the ground up means they'll be able to make it more insurable than a historic engine
One would imagine that training a crew (even one comprised of guys who are familiar with steam) to run this new T1 is going to be a bit tricky. From what I've read about them, wheelslip (and associated hammerblow) was a pretty big issue due to some crew's inexperience with the duplex-drive system.
I've read about that too, however, you need experience with either a slippery engine (say an atlantic) or an articulated engine to drive a T1. sadly, PRR hated articulateds more than the duplexes (minus the Q2) and the crews that can drive them properly had cut their teeth on the atlantics, especially the E6. under a more modern RR's care, say the Norfolk & Western, but still working the Fort Wayne Division, the T1 would've been at their best. from what I've read the duplex behaved similarly to articulateds and trying to just yank on the throttle is asking for trouble, which is what many idiots on the pennsy kept doing because PRR didn't give them proper training.
hiawathabeast While it's true that Pennsy didn't give them the right training, what kind of training can we give crews now in 2015? I honestly don't think if you run an Atlantic you're ready to run a duplex. An articulated, maybe, but's that's another problem. The only people who were trained directly by the guys from the 40s and 50s who are still alive with experience on articulateds on the mainlines, either the 3985 or the 1218, who could handle a duplex will probably be tied up with the Big Boy and the J coming back. A few years ago when things were quiet MAYBE you could pull them away but the UP and NS steam programs probably don't want those extra guys leaving now. While I believe NS will probably let them run a duplex if they had one, and while I believe with computers and models we MIGHT be able to fix all of their problems. who knows how to even run it? Also you gotta find a guy to fire, which I think you guys are overlooking. Even if an engine has a stoker, even an engine that runs on oil, there's a special way of doing that, too. And I can only imagine the firing needs of a duplex are vastly different than pretty much anything else out there.
Random etc the atlantic comment came from finding out that some of the crews that tamed the T1 used to drive the E6, another slippery loco. the T1 isn't that hard to control, you just need a light hand on the throttle. one thing I found out from reading T1 researcher Dave Stephenson's posts, these locos respond instantly thanks to their front end throttles, give a light pull on the throttle and ease her up, no trouble. if you just yank on it like a monkey, it's gonna slip. concerning any firing needs, they're actually very easy to fire, and I think they do have a stoker, basically many coal-fired super power locos are equipped with them. I don't believe firing a duplex is vastly different to other locos. as far as who could drive them these days, well, I'm sure the trust will teach anyone who's willing to learn how to drive a T1 properly. I can't remember who said it, either Mr.Stephenson or a PRR fan, but, according to either one, articulateds and duplexes exhibit similar behavior. if that really is the case, then there's nothing to be worried about
Random etc for one at the npk 765 open house one of the enginers for her is the technical adviser to the T-1 project so they are not as tied up as you think buissy yes but dont worry there are still folks that know the craft and how the steamers work, just not masses of them like used to be when they were the main pullers. the t1 was and certainly will be a power house when it gets finished, even if slow and steady wins the race, I will support her some how even if not right now.
the poppets are a more effecient delivery design though, and they will likely only take it up that high just the one time to try for the record, the q2 is neat but its not a symetrical configuration 4-4-6-4 its an odd configuration.
Love the sounds of the drivers as its moving, definitely a powerful workhorse how much horsepower does the T1 generate? the Class J 611 can do 5,000 hp i read.
The NW J class is and was a much more successful design. The T-1 used an experimental type of valve gear that not yet had the bugs worked out. They were prone to wheel slip at low speeds. The T-1's valve gear also was over engineered and difficult to maintain. The valve gear used on the T-1 was called Franklin Poppet valve gear, instead of using roller and pin bearings it used a system of cams that had to be timed just right. The NW J class used Baker valve gear which is easier to maintain and a more proven and reliable type of valve gear. I The J class used a more practical type of wheel arrangement. Her drive wheels and trucks used roller bearings and were precisely counter balanced. yes 611 is rated for over 5000 hp. If they wanted to 611 is capable to break the Mallard's speed record. 611 is a more advanced design. The T-1 when they build her they are going to have to iron out those issues with the Franklin Poppet valve gear. No modern steam locomotive in excursion service uses that type of valve gear. T-1 may be rated at 6000 hp but what good will it do them if they can get it to run.
ThePostwarPingu Solid evidence. And besides, they may have been fast, but I can't imagine continuous speed over 100mph to be healthy for a steam engine with 70 in. driving wheels. And even if 611 has roller bearings, that's mainly to prevent the axles running hot. There's still the factor of the valve gear staying intact at that speed continuously.
ThePostwarPingu Never thought I'd say I'm proud to live in my generation. Hell, by the time 5550 is built, I'll be old enough to drive her. Though maybe on an excursion, I don't think I'll be ready for a the first NEC steam-hauled run in over a century by the time I'm 30.
I'd watch the T-1's as they sped through Effingham, IL and boy were they sleek and impressive. The PRR sure seemed to have a top notch railroad too.
I never knew they made their way over here, no less as close to me as effingham...holy cow
@@trevortammen2341 there's a good picture of one in Rochester, IN I believe doing 130 mph!
@@titaniumspike1779 the fastest speed a Steam engine ever did was 126 so it wasn’t doing 130 lol. Probably more closer to 95 or 100
@@metraking192actually there have apparently been engineers that have pushed this thing to go over 130 to almost 140, enough to break some of the valves in the steam engine, I’d look at the Wikipedia article and some of its sources, these things were fast!
0:51 0:53 0:54 0:56 0:57 1:00 1:01 1:05 1:08 1:09
To be a kid in those days, this is about all you'd ever need.
Kitty Muffins and I’d love every second of it
l remember back in 50's being with my parent's car backseat and watching them go through the road rr crossings and l was mesmerized by them..A few years later l got my 1st model HO train set and with my paper route bought lots of locos and rr car kits hand made from Japan of brass(u could see the rivets) and cars made with wood, tin and lead(paint was leaded). In early 60's built a layout in my BR and l use to sleep under it!..l still have those precious locos and assembled rr car kits and hope to build a BIG layout in my basement to occupy my late retirement years. l use to go to Scanton Pa(Steamtown).So needless to say l'm still a rr steam nut
@@overpoweredsteamproduction513 it would be something, wouldn't it?
@@carltorjusen558 wow, thank you for the wonderful detail! So glad you still have them and hope you see your mission accomplished!
There's just something about trains, these mighty machines, set against the backdrop of our beautiful America!
@@overpoweredsteamproduction513 imagine just watching a bunch of k4's pulling p70 coaches down the curve
I am glad these tapes were preserved, but man that was a gnarly wheel slip at 3:15
Did the T-1 have dual throttles? how do you get slip on one set of drivers but not the others?
Two engines. Otherwise it wouldn’t be able to bend
@@Gobbersmack The T-1's had a rigid frame. No articulation between sets of drivers.
Bad training of the Hoghead. Common problem around the St Louis operation.
My dad was a fireman for the Pennsylvania from 1950 through 1954. Although the T’s were all but gone in Pittsburgh by then, it is still my favorite passenger locomotive. My dad did fire K-4’s and J-1’s. Toward the end of his career he did get his engineers papers. I only wish he were to be here for 5550.
At 3:15, you get to see the infamous wheel slip the T1s were known for. I highly respect the locomotives, even with all of the problems they had.
I saw it! A cool documentation. The engineer was lucky he didn't spin off the tire.
No kidding! He was extremely lucky. That could've damaged not only the driving gear but the boiler.
Love the doubleheader at 3:35. Full speed ahead baby. Oh yeah. Lay it to them rails.
There's a couple more in the videos, another one at 2:40 when everything slips. It sounds like a sewing machine and yes this could overspeed the valves quite easily.
However with modern technology wheel slip could be detected and corrected with a Raspberry Pi and a few sensors. Like the anti-version of ABS, Antilock Slip System (ASS)
k4's! Pride of the prr!
So glad t1 trust is rebuilding one
Whenever I see these, I'm amazed at how massive its tender is - it's nearly the same size as the locomotive. I'm also struck by how low to its trucks it rides - a lowrider tender.
The streamlining covers up most of the trucks similar to the tenders used on the NYC Dreyfuss Hudson. They look closer to the rail than they actually are, but for a tender of that size, it still amazes me.
These were beautiful engines, but they dont look right pulling anything, particularly passenger cars. Lowey shouldve had a go at a coach set for them.
If the original film this was shot on still exists you should see if it can be found and re-scanned. Re-scanned old film can usually mean that it'll allow for it to be shown in HD. Really important for archival purposes if the film can be found.
There were 2 T-1 versions. The first was the "Buick" model having 3 portholes on the front skirt. The second had a front end design modification and it was the most numerous. Both versions were tremendous performers and earned a great reputation.
I love the earlier version. I hope 5550 gets the wide "Buick" pilot
I do not think 5550 is getting the portholes.
Buick portholes now that reminds me of a Raymond loewly Design from the thirties Who designed many a General Motors product.
@@garyquail4996 the think the Buicks look way nice
@@themeparkreconnoiter9787 that sure is a Timeless classic design Style by adding the portholes just like my grand uncles 1946 Buick convertible never goes out of style .
Great footage here. Those T1 locomotives certainly were impressive machines. I hope the project to build one succeeds.
T1 got to be my favourite US Locos. Challengers and Big Boys are great, but T1s, given the same conditions, are the ones that could have given Mallard a run for her money. (UK viewer). Thanks.
What i
@@Peasmouldia Hi Ian what i love about the T1 is how it makes a grunting sound like a bad ass wild boar charging down on you it sounds mean as hell. Listen to it & hear for yourself.✌✌
As much of a diehard PRR fan I am, I would’ve loved to see this done to an existing survivor such as M1 #6755 or I1sa #4483. The M1 being the best locomotives the PRR ever owned (quoted by many workers of the railroad), and the I1sa being the monsters they were. 4483 underwent major overhaul shortly before retirement. Like I said, maybe these other routes would’ve been less expensive by miles. Then again, this is a dream come true. Standard Railroad Forever 🙏🏽
Brilliant bits of footage. So good to see it being saved. Loved it. Thanks.
I cannot wait to see the 5550 finished
they are making good progress, the boiler is nearly complete, next they will move on to the frame and cylinders!
@@medenicaribovski9089 it would be crazy to see it on the Amtrak lines when it gets finished
Wow, the first great T-1 footage I've ever seen, and with sound no less. Many thanks...
as long as the interest is there and the will, ALL steam locos will make a return. this isn't the only loco that deserves to live again.
shikashi18 still waiting for that J3a trust society or whatever
Steam should just come back--it's actually not that bad for the environment, and there is definitely interest
@@drakeredwingofficial ^
Steamers pollute less than a thousand cars and a hundred planes!
@@theextremeanimator4721 I know, right?! We should just bring back steam for certain things like luxury rail travel. Only problem is, it costs a lot to keep them running. But, fortunately, we have an army of steamheads who are willing to make the sacrifice to keep these beautiful machines moving!
@@drakeredwingofficial oh, of course....
; )
What great shots of the T-1 ! Having them shot in St. Louis , where I live, only made it better.
A few years ago I would've thought this was crazy! Then Dave Kloke built two 1860's 4-4-0's in his machine shop and restorations began on a UP Big Boy. N&W 611 and a C&O articulated are also being restored!
Where to run? I'd focus on NS and maybe CSX as possible lines. No, a T-1 isn't the loco of my dreams, but a worthy project, just the same!
If they can build this, maybe Maryland & Pennsylvania #6 might someday see the rails!
I love steam engines so much. These beasts were and are so damn cool!
Love old steam videos, also think it is cool that there are plans to rebuild one, did not think any were left.
I only saw one or two engines having slipping issues. For the most part, big trains, clear stacks and just doing their thing. Loved the fast run-bys! All the best to you in bringing one back to life!
I bought this engine in HO years ago from Broadway Limited Imports and its a beautiful engine indeed
I am eager to see 5550 when finished! I just joined your forum and hope to see good progress!
Looks like quite a project. Cant wait to see it in action
Can't wait to see one of these in action! T1 has always been a favorite.
+Lionelpostwarfan Oll, this was before you knew the truth. XD
Not only is that some great Pennsy footage (love the double-headed K4 extra special bonus), but it's some great steam era St. Louis footage, which can be surprisingly hard to come by. Thank you for posting this!
That's wheel slip! Wow! Beautiful footage. Good Work digging this up.
Anyone else notice the t1 at 1:25 and the following shot are of the t1 with outside Franklin B valve gear, 5500.
In my youth, where I lived, most trains were electric (PRR), some work units were diesel, a steam loco came through and had all the neighbors PO'd. There were black cinder specks all over everything. Laundry hanging out on clotheslines all had to be redone.
I love These Locomotives 😍
My big brother he really love prr t1 duplex
These were very nice steam locomotives.
THE most beautiful steam locomotive every built, IMHO. I have two Bowser HO models myself, one mostly assembled and running (still gotta ad the super-detail parts and paint her) and the second one is still new in the box. It was one of only five T1's left 'on the shelf in front of me' according to the guy I spoke with at Bowser, when they quit making steam locomotives there. Someday hopefully I'll have both of them finished and running. Magnificent little machines even in HO scale... I could only imagine how spectacular they must've been in real life.
I had no idea the PRR went all the way to union station in STL. That is really really cool. Too bad the station is no longer an actual train functioning train station.
This is where I get my joy, right here.
Beautiful locomotives. Thirty five years ago I built one in O-scale.
I love the look of those locos. I remember seeing them when I was very young. I lived right on a Pennsy line in western PA. There is something scary about them, I don't know why.
George Sealy maybe the fact that they look like sharks?
I think it is the fact that something that BIG is moving so fast... especially if you are along the tracks!
I
@@kkhagerty6315 Thinking about it, I would say that the styling was sleek, industrial, and impersonal. I knew the previous look of locomotives and I understood them, but these were different.
Hard to believe the T1 class had only a 10-year career.
There is a new one in the works
I don't find that hard to believe though. Maintenance of this behemoth costed a lot both in funds and manpower and their design couldn't be improved any further. More power meant higher axle loads, bigger boilers (and thus reduced visibility) and in the end, operational complexity that was overly expensive when compared to diesels. It would be nice to see one T1 preserved, but the post-steam era in the US was a time when lots of unique locomotives were scrapped without second thought. These steam locomotives make their European counterparts look like toys.
Yeah, the main problem is the stupid 4-4-4-4 wheel set on a fused axle....just removed any value of using sets of 4, causing low traction and bad turn radius. The other problem is the drain of pressure those two sets of pistons had, leading to fast speeds, then slow low pressured running with wheel slip and grinding.
TomsTradeTable And the fact that the people behind this project think they can beat LNER A4 Mallard’s speed record with such a locomotive as this is embarrassing. A locomotive for heavy passenger and freight trains, sure, but to break the top speed record? No. Just no.
a vast majority of the T1's issues were do to abuse from engineers who were used to running underpowered K class locomotives. The Norfolk and Western tested T1 5511, and noted that it did have a higher fuel and water consumption per horsepower than an N&W J, and it required more maintenance than they thought a modern steamer should require. They even made the suggestion to the PRR to change the valve gear over to Baker valve gear like they used on the J to lower maintenance cost. T1 5511 did have trouble starting a train on a grade the J class had no issues with, but that was due to its tall drivers (80" vs. 70" on the J class). In the end, PRR's pride and ignorance killed the T1, and led to its short career.
Beautiful beasts I love their sounds.
Time to do another drawing of them so far I have revisited their brothers the Q1 & Q2 over the past couple of years.
That sound 😍
Great video. I've always loved the T-1's, it's a true shame they all met the torch.
Really want to see one running again.
Love this loco it looks so sleek and elegant. I'm gonna get a model in HO.
Such a beautiful train!
Back in the day when there was something really exciting to see from trackside.
GOD BLESS THE T1
Wow its huge!!!
What is going on in that last segment, at about 4:18, where the T-1 is belching big clouds of smoke while running on flat ground? What was the fuel efficiency of a T-1 compared to a K-4?
It might have a very dirty funnel or smokebox that hasn't been cleaned in a while.
Magnificent. I'm surprised at the axle box knock on the T1 though. I would have thought it fitted with Franklin automatic wedges.
Great video and footage! The best passenger steam locomotive ever built--Awesome! Truly my favorite. I have two O-gauge scale models running on my layout. I would love more news about the progress of the building of the locomotive. Are you building it in Juniata or Philiadelphia?
It will be impressive to see the new one when it's built. All the issues can be addressed. And the rumors of its record breaking speeds can be put to the test.
Now my question is: will they attempt to coal fire it or will they take the safe route to avoid track side fire hazards and oil fire it like UP has done to 844, 3985 and 4014?
May someone explain to me what the white on the T1 is at 1:27? Has it something to do with the saftey valves? Or did someone throw a pot of paint at it from an overhead bridge.
+Benjamin Nope Could be hard water stains, or dust from the sand hoppers after they filled them
3:58 well i've never seen a T1 go that fast.
Yep, its easily pushing 110+ mph there. It takes just 3 seconds to pass 4 poles which have by my best guess at least 120+ feet distance between each pole given how it looks like each one is around the length of the locomotive itself? So doing some math it passes by all 4 within the course of 3 seconds. Thats pushing 110 miles an hour at the minimal. Depends how far the distance between each pole is. They do say the T1 is capable of pushing into the 140 range given the right conditions and some unverified runs back in the day claiming to having done so. But thats what the recommissioning of the T1 trusts T1 is all about, breaking that record.
Nothing compared to the s1. it was rumored that one had reached 156 mphs. dwarfing this and basically t-bagging on mallards speed record of ‘125 mphs’. Personally, I believe this theory because they were honestly pretty fast steam engines. And their streamlining probably gave them better aerodynamics and and more speed.
@@mcfc_lads1894 How in the heck would a locomotive so long that it could only be used on one route and had catastrophic wheelslip issues, along with a complete inability to tilt reach 156 MPH? There are like 30 miles of the freaking NEC where the Acela express, an actual HST can even reach those speeds. That theory's total BS.
@@rayhankazianga6817it’s confirmed the the s1 hit 148 mph and the railroad got fined for it go check out Hyce
@2:01 that's a cool view !!
Love those T1 tenders -
pure DECO!
When #5550 is completed, I would like to see a Q2 with Q1 streamlining to pay homage to the Q series! Make the most HP steamer again!
Very nice historic video.
Gorgeous!
Boy do i love 5he chuff of the t1
T1 is the Formula one of Steam Locomotives!! BADASS!!!
i think Sir Nigel Gresely would like to have a word with you XD
Absolutely. As an afterthought BTW, Gresley had planned an attempt to break his own record w/c 4th September 1939. Unfortunately something rather big got in the way...
I wouldn't say it's the formula one of steam locomotives because it's a very large and tall engine, but the T-1 is a very interesting and to me, a gorgeous locomotive.
The PRR T1 Duplex is my Favourite train in the World, the Looks, The Sound and how they can do 140 Mph, The Coolest locomotive ever
3:58 that thing is HAULING. anyone know how fast that might've been going?
If I had to guess, over 110 MPH. It passes by 4 poles in the matter of 3 some odd seconds watching the video and the timer. The distance between each pole is around the length of the engine itself, so you can easily rough estimate the speed it was traveling at. The T1 engine is 122 feet long not including the tender. So 122 x 4 / 3 = 162.6 feet per second. A mile is 5280 feet meaning 5280 / 162.6 = 32.4+ seconds to travel an entire mile at that speed. An hour is made up of 3600 seconds, 3600 / 32.4 = 111.1 mph.
@@gundamwarriorI may be wrong but that's some SERIOUS dedication. You ain't a nerd, you're smart and I respect you for that.
Seeing my buddy's dads dream become a reality is amazing like dang can't wait to see y'all finish it!
Beautiful. Thanks for sharing it!
Would love to know the year these photo's were shot in St. Louis.
Some say they are the fastest steam engines that ever ran an up to 125mph might actually have been achieved in their 4/5 years of actual service. Most would go for a Chapeleon Pacific or the NW J which was designed to be stable at 145mph on the Pennsylvania main line and was probably a more realistic idea for the last steam but the NW line at the time was steep and ran through nowhere the deepest Apalachia, so only the first 100 miles out of Norfolk Virginia the great US Navy port would see them fly. Thats what I se those NW express engines as the transport to the US Navy at Norfolk, connecting with the Penn at Cincinati. That Navy passenger traffic is what probably made the NW passenger service plus the US Mail until 1970 and the Amtrak takeover.
The J was designed to be stable to 100mph. PRR bporrowed a J and blew out the right side baker valve gear on 610 trying to go past where N&W told them.
It looks like a record breaking speed
It's sad to know that the Pennsylvania railroad scrapped the t1 and really who dosent get emotional especially if they love steam locomotives to hear the words they never escaped the cutting torch
A phrase I've heard sadly too often in Wisconsin. The Milwaukee Road scrapped ALL the Class A's and F7's that hauled the Hiawatha, which was an outright tragedy. I doubt I'll see any efforts to recreate one of them in my lifetime.
The Pennsy might have saved one had they considered the T1, or any of the Duplex locomotives for that matter, a true success.
Yes, it is sad that the T1 was scrapped. It's even more sad that the Pennsy doesn't exist anymore. Stupid financial issues.
I'd save a T1 and a Q2
@@themeparkreconnoiter9787 that's what I said...
If these PRR T-1 locomotives really can hit 140 mph(224 km/h), then they could break Mallard, the fastest steam locomotive ever(fastest speed, 126 mph/201.6km/h).
I'm support this T1 Trust Project, and I hope and wish this is going to break it.
mallard's record was bogus anyway, it was going downhill
I like the added sound effects.
I think it's mostly real.
The sounds are recorded from Union Pacific Challengers, I believe. The bell is what gave it away. Still, the actual film is more important than the sound, in my opinion.
Holy mother!! What a beast!!
Has anyone calculated how fast the engine is actually going in some of those faster shots?
From my maths, over 110mph @ 3:58 since the train length is known thus you can calculate the distance between each pole, so you can easily calculate the speed which I came to an approx average of over 110. It passes by 120+ feet of distance between each pole, passing by 4 poles in only 3 some seconds. Giving you a min potential 110 mph.
Quite a few years back there was an article in Trains magazine written by a retired PRR employee concerning the absolutely last time that he was called to fire a T1. Long story short he and the engineer connived to “see what she could do” between stations on a 20 mile straight and flat section of track in OH or IN. They knew that drawing a T1 at that point was unusual as almost none were still in steam and had to mean that there was a power imbalance somewhere in the system. They both realized that this job might be the last of the last with a T1. From a standing start to a stop at the next station they were told by the superintendant that they has averaged 119 MPH. The engine man said that the speedometer was pegged much of the way.
The superintendant gave them the expected chewing out then winked and said something like “I always expected that a T1 could do that if you just let her run”. “Just don’t do it again”.
I saved the article and if I find it I’ll post. It probably ran in the magazine back in the 1970’s.
Black Lane near Fairmont City, IL.
3:16
Super Wheel-Slip on the front driving wheels!
And that's one other reason why I don't support this project, other than their plans to break Mallard's record of 126 mph. Ludicrous, absolutely ludicrous.
@@AndrewHager02 why? What's the issue about the wheelslip? Sorry im new
@@AndrewHager02 Wheel slip was usually corrected when T1 engineers got a feel of how the throttle affected the engine. It was usually easy to jump the gun.
@@AndrewHager02 there building a new train with modern saftey I highly doubt they would wheelslip very often like the orginal ones used to .
The Mallard’s top speed probably isn’t even 126 MPH, it was going down hill and had passenger coaches behind it
Fire up #5550.
Not until the entire boiler is done
Wow, what a beheamouth the T1 was!
Great video. I am in Australia and plan to build a large PRR railroad. I am looking at Buffalo do to all the businesses there. Is there a better place to build? The era is 1950 - 1960 preferably Steam.
is everyone excited to se T1 5550.
what type of locomotive is that at 0:14?
That's a K4s 4-6-2 in the later 1940's streamlining.
Semi-Streamlined K4
Nice!
Why must there always be white covering the rear end of the boiler and can roof?
Foaming most likely.
What the white stuff around the whistle and cab?
I'm guessing it's residue from boiler scale. They used blocks of solvent in the tender tanks now and then to dissolve boiler scale.
The T1 was designed to operate anywhere on the PRR mainline circa 1942. With the original lateral motion configuration, the T1 could negotiate 16 degree curves, and according to the timetable, could operate in areas where even the M1 was restricted. Based on the lateral motion increases of 1946 and the overall dimensions, we're confident that the T1 can operate anywhere on the current mainline network that the N&W J class can. For more information: prrt1steamlocomotivetrust.org/faq.php
Dan Fitzgerald ok, that's just hogwash.
this engine is NOT a poor choice to build from scratch, with all the myths surrounding this class finally being debunked, 5550 would, if built, finally address them all.
as for a poor choice, HA, choosing to recreate Illinois central no.1 is a poor choice. at least the T1 had SOME success, IC no.1 was a terrible choice for freight.
also, saw your comment about how this loco couldn't be driven anywhere unless articulated, I already said on here T1 5511 was tested on the Norfolk and Western, if a T1 can go on the same tracks as N&W 611, it doesn't need articulating.
If you guys pull this off it will be amazing. I have always loved the look of the old T1's, but when I found out there were no existing locomotives left I was disappointed. Don't listen to what those people who criticize this beautiful locomotive tell you. This locomotive was a great choice. Hopefully someday I will be able to see it run.
Dan Fitzgerald funny enough they are actually beginning to build her
+hiawathabeast You said it! I found that the wheel slippage was caused by spring equilization. The bogie trucks held the same weight as the engine trucks which means that the adhesion was terrible. The 6900 horsepower in a loco the size of a northern didn't help either. The excessive wheel slip wore the poppets much quicker than they should have. Basically, fix the adhesion and all the other problems will be fine.
This is why I don't get why people are so upset about you guys building a T1 instead of a Q2. The Q2s might've had the highest recorder horsepower for a rigid steamer, but they were extremely heavy (less route availability than a J1) and had standard Baker valve gear; must've cause a ton of hammer blow. Sure the T1s cost a lot of time to maintain, but they were the ultimate passenger engines. Two sets of drivers and they didn't need to go through the complexity of being articulated. Besides, with a T1, there's a guarantee that you can actually run it somewhere. Where would you run a Q2 exactly? Maybe out west, but most of the Western steamers are oil burners.
Isn't there another video of t1 with wheel slipping??
i'm Glad the T1 Trust Is Building A New T1.
The Municipal Bridge is called the MacArthur Bridge.
What are you going to do with 5550 when it's done? Steam-hauled excursions are quite hard to pull off nowadays.
Maybe 5550 will have less restrictions since it's a new build, or the Strasburg railroad could provide it a permanent home.
But it will be great to see a new steamer in the States either way.
iron 13 the hard part is insurance. Until recently, they could get insurance with Amtrak etc which is how 4449 and others were able to operate by meeting Amtrak standards. UP can ignore all of it since they own and insure all of their own equipment and track. And of course, running at high speeds is even harder since most tracks are rated for 60mph hour or less unless they are used by passenger trains and even then most don't operate above 60. Hopefully building with these goals in mind from the ground up means they'll be able to make it more insurable than a historic engine
March of the articulateds. Good sound on the exhaust notes. Sadly with all their strength unable to escape the cutter's torch.
8 years and the 5550 is completed.
I wished that they would have kept at least one.
Same. Lots of people are glad they are gone but others aren't.
@@motormouth2472 they look so sleek and fast just sitting still!
@@texasrockshillcountry6574 yeah I agree!
They are rebuilding it. Although I wish they were rebuilding the Pennsylvania S1 class.
@@wtf-hc3tp I'd rather build a new PRR Q2 because they have 8,000 horsepower stronger than the N&W Y6b
One would imagine that training a crew (even one comprised of guys who are familiar with steam) to run this new T1 is going to be a bit tricky. From what I've read about them, wheelslip (and associated hammerblow) was a pretty big issue due to some crew's inexperience with the duplex-drive system.
I've read about that too, however, you need experience with either a slippery engine (say an atlantic) or an articulated engine to drive a T1.
sadly, PRR hated articulateds more than the duplexes (minus the Q2) and the crews that can drive them properly had cut their teeth on the atlantics, especially the E6. under a more modern RR's care, say the Norfolk & Western, but still working the Fort Wayne Division, the T1 would've been at their best. from what I've read the duplex behaved similarly to articulateds and trying to just yank on the throttle is asking for trouble, which is what many idiots on the pennsy kept doing because PRR didn't give them proper training.
hiawathabeast While it's true that Pennsy didn't give them the right training, what kind of training can we give crews now in 2015? I honestly don't think if you run an Atlantic you're ready to run a duplex. An articulated, maybe, but's that's another problem.
The only people who were trained directly by the guys from the 40s and 50s who are still alive with experience on articulateds on the mainlines, either the 3985 or the 1218, who could handle a duplex will probably be tied up with the Big Boy and the J coming back. A few years ago when things were quiet MAYBE you could pull them away but the UP and NS steam programs probably don't want those extra guys leaving now. While I believe NS will probably let them run a duplex if they had one, and while I believe with computers and models we MIGHT be able to fix all of their problems. who knows how to even run it?
Also you gotta find a guy to fire, which I think you guys are overlooking. Even if an engine has a stoker, even an engine that runs on oil, there's a special way of doing that, too. And I can only imagine the firing needs of a duplex are vastly different than pretty much anything else out there.
Random etc the atlantic comment came from finding out that some of the crews that tamed the T1 used to drive the E6, another slippery loco. the T1 isn't that hard to control, you just need a light hand on the throttle. one thing I found out from reading T1 researcher Dave Stephenson's posts, these locos respond instantly thanks to their front end throttles, give a light pull on the throttle and ease her up, no trouble. if you just yank on it like a monkey, it's gonna slip.
concerning any firing needs, they're actually very easy to fire, and I think they do have a stoker, basically many coal-fired super power locos are equipped with them. I don't believe firing a duplex is vastly different to other locos.
as far as who could drive them these days, well, I'm sure the trust will teach anyone who's willing to learn how to drive a T1 properly.
I can't remember who said it, either Mr.Stephenson or a PRR fan, but, according to either one, articulateds and duplexes exhibit similar behavior. if that really is the case, then there's nothing to be worried about
Random etc for one at the npk 765 open house one of the enginers for her is the technical adviser to the T-1 project so they are not as tied up as you think buissy yes but dont worry there are still folks that know the craft and how the steamers work, just not masses of them like used to be when they were the main pullers.
the t1 was and certainly will be a power house when it gets finished, even if slow and steady wins the race, I will support her some how even if not right now.
the poppets are a more effecient delivery design though, and they will likely only take it up that high just the one time to try for the record, the q2 is neat but its not a symetrical configuration 4-4-6-4 its an odd configuration.
At 0:15 seconds what engine is that please
Streamlined K4 Pacific. (4-6-2)
Awesome I have a homade model of a t1
Love the sounds of the drivers as its moving, definitely a powerful workhorse
how much horsepower does the T1 generate? the Class J 611 can do 5,000 hp i read.
I've seen reports of anywhere between 5000 and 6000 so my best bet is 5500 horsepower.
Probably around 6100. I remember the pioneer T1, 6110, acquired her number based on her indicated or drawbar horsepower.
The NW J class is and was a much more successful design. The T-1 used an experimental type of valve gear that not yet had the bugs worked out. They were prone to wheel slip at low speeds. The T-1's valve gear also was over engineered and difficult to maintain. The valve gear used on the T-1 was called Franklin Poppet valve gear, instead of using roller and pin bearings it used a system of cams that had to be timed just right. The NW J class used Baker valve gear which is easier to maintain and a more proven and reliable type of valve gear. I The J class used a more practical type of wheel arrangement. Her drive wheels and trucks used roller bearings and were precisely counter balanced. yes 611 is rated for over 5000 hp. If they wanted to 611 is capable to break the Mallard's speed record. 611 is a more advanced design. The T-1 when they build her they are going to have to iron out those issues with the Franklin Poppet valve gear. No modern steam locomotive in excursion service uses that type of valve gear. T-1 may be rated at 6000 hp but what good will it do them if they can get it to run.
ThePostwarPingu Solid evidence. And besides, they may have been fast, but I can't imagine continuous speed over 100mph to be healthy for a steam engine with 70 in. driving wheels. And even if 611 has roller bearings, that's mainly to prevent the axles running hot. There's still the factor of the valve gear staying intact at that speed continuously.
ThePostwarPingu Never thought I'd say I'm proud to live in my generation. Hell, by the time 5550 is built, I'll be old enough to drive her. Though maybe on an excursion, I don't think I'll be ready for a the first NEC steam-hauled run in over a century by the time I'm 30.
In these times, many railroads tried coming up with a rival for the Union Pacific Big Boy and Challenger
By far my favorite locomotive! And, I'm happy people in this comment section will get my username!
Yeah! Broadway Limited over 20th Century any day! High Five!
The famed T1 trust locomotive. What a giant.
Guys look at this 3:58 this guy us going real fast!!
St.louis my Faviorite Place!!!! :D
Nice video!
Movies taken by C.E.(Tex) Prusia
Awesome name
Awesome photographer, great guy. R.I.P.
Aw. Your name is awesome too