Really love Fantasy's new TvZ builds, not just because they're creative but that "glass cannon" feel sacrificing as much standard-game safety as he can. gg
9:00 i think a bunker with a couple of marines and maybe a firebat at his natural to protect that move out would've been huge. Wouldn't have lost those two tanks and he would've been in a very good position after that.
OMG, gigantic amounts of valkyries and queens, this was an awesome game! Also, I'm so happy and hyped up for Fantasy's return. He had a lot of weird strats back in the day. Can't wait to see more of him. The only thing I'm missing out is a vulture terror, like NaDa. Terrans nowadays really are lazy AF and underutilize vultures.
yeah and many zerg players forget about zerglings mid and late game it always annoys me when my Im rooting for zerg (my favorite) or terran (second favorite) and the player isnt using the bread and butter units
I stopped watching BW and SC2 once Blizzard released the first expansion for SC2 and added more workers in the start to kill early game. It's very interesting to read up on everything that has happened since and that BW is still in and Artosis and Tasteless are still around.
@@kya6816 exactly. The possiblity of early game attacks made it so fun to watch, especially on GSL. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks like this.
I see what Fantasy is going for here and I love the idea. If he can retain his valks and perhaps even get +2 attack it could work out. If you can force zerg into a position to have to create hydras then it's better counterplay vs air then starting out with mass goliath like the "goliath build" or other mech builds. I'm going to have fun continuing to watch the mech evolution. Soma played amazingly to regrab air control and that was a great decision to make mid game.
I believe that Fantasy and Janbi met in the last two Kespa era finals and were arguably the best of their races. Artosis is there any information on what Jangbi went on to do?
Valkyrie micro needs to evolve quite a bit more it seems, too often they keep dying and in low numbers they lose too much power, and by the end Fantasy forgot to even use the few ones he had left.
I coulda sworn it said non mechanical for years. But I’m pretty sure I got it confused with irradiate. I also thought irradiate was bad lol, I had no idea how things really were
@@turgid4391 It's actually "non-robotic", so Spawn Broodling can't be used on Spider Mines, Reavers, Probes and Archons (not really robots, but I guess they are protected by their aura).
I see it as the Queen using a super powerful acid spore sort of attack (what the Guardian uses) that burns through the armour of tanks and obliterates marines on contact. Unlike the Guardian, the Queen's projectile houses an egg inside that releases broodlings. When this hatches inside of a penetrated tank, the Broodlings shred through the inside, ripping through fuel lines and electronics and feasting on the crew, before emerging from the disabled tank to find new targets. The Broodlings won't survive after hatching without consuming organic matter straight away, so implanting eggs on robotic units or entities like Archons is not something that Queens are compelled to do.
Iradiate too cheap in energy cost the queens should be able to cast 2 spawn broodlings -- also iradiate is better. Also while were at it spawn broodlings should work on science vessels!
Wraiths, battlecruisers, and valks. Basically you gotta find the queens and kill em with your air. Goliaths don't do enough damage fast enough to stop it, and good luck landing EMPs it's hard enough to do that vs protoss! Mech means you won't have enough gas to get many vessels either unlike SK terran build. Wraiths are probably the best queen hunters but I'd say BCs are nice too because the zerg won't have defiler..no plague or dark swarm makes hydras not nearly as good.
Good positioning with goliaths and tanks is already enough at even game. Emp straight up destroys queens. Even here if Fantasy just kept his valk production he could win.
@9:25 - As a lifelong Terran player, is extremely frustrating to watch Zerg run-bys.. ONE BUNKER w 2 FireBats at the front of Base and it's defended the WHOLE game. @artosis, please let Terrans know, Bunks are only 100 minerals but permanently end ling runbys.
It seems that the only possible counter to queens mech has is lucky EMP or actively trying to hunt them down with wraiths/valks. Otherwise they will destroy tanks, even if most of them dies in the process (so goliaths do not work).
I guess you need really good information about where the queens are and if they are being built to counter. But yeah, once they are built, in position, and have the energy they are impossible to counter. One way to tell might be if the Zerg is not producing as much gas heavy units for 2 minutes or if they are refusing battle for about 2 minutes. If you have the sense they are doing this, build turrets in advance of the tanks and retreat.
Anyone else stay up to date on both StarCraft 1 and 2 🤔also I love that this community continues to keep this beautiful game alive . Shame the idea of a sc3 is a miracle shot but we will forever keep the originals alive
Missed Fantasy! As far as I understand his mech style was influenced by iLoveOovee, who was his coach/mentor. You can’t be excuse for casting a Fantasy game without mentioning Vulture Terrorist! Lol Anyway good Queen play but think that Fantasy should’ve kept his Valkyries alive during that timing attack. Also his choice of attack wasn’t the best . I think he would’ve had more success attacking the natural and third. His choice of expansion cost him as well, he should’ve gone with the 12oclock probably… but very exciting game. Can’t believe he defended well that doom drop with queens and mutas!
His mistake was he stopped making valks in the late game, if he had a group of like 10 he could have won that. Also to stop getting the Air attack lv 2-3 was not smart either
WHY is that science vessel not parasited yet?? WHY are those valks not parasited? I really don't get why pros don't use parasite more, it costs 75 energy and it's fucking awesome.
I love this channel, thanks Artosis! If you could please consider switching "Oh my God" with "Oh my gosh" then I can play these with the kids watching. Small request from one fan, I know...
Fantasy would have definitely won but he was just a little sloppy with his units in the first ~10 minutes. Can tell he isn't quite at that super polished pro level because he's only doing it part time.
spoiler having seen maybe 4-5 videos of late game Mech builds from Terran, none of them seem to be able to close the game out. The strategy seems flawed, having a very immobile army against Zerg seems like a big weakness. Once queens come out, its gg
Zerg must always do make Queens against Protoss, it could easily missup protoss offensive, and mixed with defilers that is just the perfect strategy.. why almost nobody do it? I dont know, maybe they love tobe stormed by protoss.. 🤷🏻🤷🏻
Queens die easily to corsairs, and there is nothing zerg really can do to prevent it. Also Protoss is usually way more active on map so Zerg just does not have 3 free minutes to build up queen squad while drinking coffee.
@@amai2307 I guess that is a categoric answer, for sure this startegy has worked some time in history, not a lot of queens but just 3 or 4 to prevent, I mean not an entire strategy based on queens..
@@onprint4868 that thing works well vs terran because of 2 things. 1) slow rate of tank production. 2) tanks cant attack queens. 3) tanks cost more than queens. All of this doesnt apply to protoss, at best Queens can make broodlings from templars or dragoons because both reavers and archons are immune to it. On top of it it is quite common to protoss to have observers and overall match up has more contact between players. Zerg doesnt have that many free time to sit back and hoard queens, protoss is more likely to feel that your ground forces are weak and just push onto your bases. And dont forget at fight itself it's common for protoss to have observers so even during battle itself protoss is likely to have better vision than terran.
at 8:40, there was 1 sunken and some lings and hydras. All Fantasy had to do was stim and attack-move and win the game, but instead he walked away and let the zerg attack him and do massive damage.
We can see that as observers but Fantasy can't see that. There might be 3 sunkens and 12 lings up that ramp and those dozen marines are literally all of Fantasy's map control, if he loses 3 or 4 of them probing up the ramp he might just get run over by the lings anyways. Why would he even risk the marines when he has 2 siege tanks on the way with siege mode that can easily bust the sunkens anyways. You might say he could scan but he needs to save his scans for that push in case he needs to see the high ground for tank fire or if he needs to reveal surprise lurkers. Soma's zerglings found the one weakness in what otherwise would have been a massive timing attack and deflected it.
@@Atillarous it was too early for there to be completed lurks positioned and burrowed by the time he got there. If that was his reasoning, he would not even haven been that far out on the map, because the lurkers could be anywhere. Pros know these timings well so he would have known that, and he would have also known that the whole reason he was sending out those MM was to do damage as a timing attack. There is literally no reason to send out a terran army and do nothing with it and keep them out there when the timing window have passed.
So close, omg, it's annoying that Zerg has to have double the skills to beat the Terran, Terran units are too cost efficient and too imba and need a nerf: Blizzard, I mean Microsofot, need to hire me to: -- Siege tanks animation time increased to 10 seconds -- Siege tanks unsiege mode damage reduced by 50% -- Stim cost 20 HP -- Valks move 10% slower and have 20 reduced HP.
@@amai2307 never heard of it, and disagree. I think all the Terran players have inferior skills compared to Zerg and Protoss players. Terran can Irridiate all day on the zerg and siege the Protoss with minimal economy.
this is quickly becoming my favorite channel on youtube. thanks arty, i love this shit!
God it’s so refreshing to NOT see defilers in a TvZ a great game
Really love Fantasy's new TvZ builds, not just because they're creative but that "glass cannon" feel sacrificing as much standard-game safety as he can. gg
BW air units rock, had a blast with this game, air to air and air to ground combat makes BW the gem that it is
Thanks for the casts arty, loving these
That Valk trap was sick!! Took out all 3 with them thinking they'll catch the mutas..!
That felt like a really different and refreshing TvZ for some reason. Great cast!
9:00 i think a bunker with a couple of marines and maybe a firebat at his natural to protect that move out would've been huge. Wouldn't have lost those two tanks and he would've been in a very good position after that.
nah, he just shouldnt have tried to send 2 tanks out on the map by themselves while his army was already walking home to go pick them up.
Wow this game was crazy, so many back and forth battles!
appreciate the clickbait title that isn't a lie or a spoiler. I know it's an art form :)
Missing you in GSL, watching here to get my fix
Arty, if Jangbi comes back we'll have everything we wanted.
Man, six base Zerg is an absolute menace, and I didn't know about this Queen build, absolutely destroying the tanks!
Nice win by soma what a beast!
Solid game. Great action from start to finish.
"mass Queen"
we will we will rock you...
these guys are going wild!
OMG, gigantic amounts of valkyries and queens, this was an awesome game!
Also, I'm so happy and hyped up for Fantasy's return. He had a lot of weird strats back in the day. Can't wait to see more of him.
The only thing I'm missing out is a vulture terror, like NaDa. Terrans nowadays really are lazy AF and underutilize vultures.
yeah and many zerg players forget about zerglings mid and late game it always annoys me when my Im rooting for zerg (my favorite) or terran (second favorite) and the player isnt using the bread and butter units
I stopped watching BW and SC2 once Blizzard released the first expansion for SC2 and added more workers in the start to kill early game. It's very interesting to read up on everything that has happened since and that BW is still in and Artosis and Tasteless are still around.
Nobody ruins games like blizzard man. So glad they don’t care about BW otherwise they’d ruin it too
Yeah SC2 became a mess after the first expac I gotta agree.
Yeah lotv's 12 worker patch was just ruin game. No room for strategy move. Every game played same build pool after that.
@@kya6816 exactly. The possiblity of early game attacks made it so fun to watch, especially on GSL. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks like this.
@@turgid4391 eventually they will since it would compete against sc3. Let's hope they just focus on loot boxes and mobile games.
always love a good queen game that drop was crazy
21:33 The giggle is hilarious :D
Queens and Valkyries ??! Whoaaaa
Thanks for casting the games every day! 👍
18 minutes in and this game is jaw dropping
I see what Fantasy is going for here and I love the idea. If he can retain his valks and perhaps even get +2 attack it could work out. If you can force zerg into a position to have to create hydras then it's better counterplay vs air then starting out with mass goliath like the "goliath build" or other mech builds.
I'm going to have fun continuing to watch the mech evolution. Soma played amazingly to regrab air control and that was a great decision to make mid game.
I believe that Fantasy and Janbi met in the last two Kespa era finals and were arguably the best of their races. Artosis is there any information on what Jangbi went on to do?
Flash vs fantasy lets see it happen. Some of the most epic classic broodwar battles ever
Valkyrie micro needs to evolve quite a bit more it seems, too often they keep dying and in low numbers they lose too much power, and by the end Fantasy forgot to even use the few ones he had left.
mostly the micro against the scourge yeah
Always felt that spawn broodings working on siege tanks is iffy lore-wise.
I coulda sworn it said non mechanical for years. But I’m pretty sure I got it confused with irradiate.
I also thought irradiate was bad lol, I had no idea how things really were
@@turgid4391 It's actually "non-robotic", so Spawn Broodling can't be used on Spider Mines, Reavers, Probes and Archons (not really robots, but I guess they are protected by their aura).
I see it as the Queen using a super powerful acid spore sort of attack (what the Guardian uses) that burns through the armour of tanks and obliterates marines on contact. Unlike the Guardian, the Queen's projectile houses an egg inside that releases broodlings. When this hatches inside of a penetrated tank, the Broodlings shred through the inside, ripping through fuel lines and electronics and feasting on the crew, before emerging from the disabled tank to find new targets. The Broodlings won't survive after hatching without consuming organic matter straight away, so implanting eggs on robotic units or entities like Archons is not something that Queens are compelled to do.
@@toomuchinvigilation2419haven't played in years but I think it may work on archons
@@jonahjameson272 Works on all ground units except: Archon, Reaver, Probe, Dark Archon, and Spider Mines.
Very interesting match!
Very good playing
Terran players sure do love the corsair!
Just want to say I really enjoy the Korean ladder games!
Hey Arty , what about 3rd 4rd ASL ?
very cool game Arty
Big fan of |||||||||||||||||. Excited to watch him on ACL.
Very cool
Cool Beans
Iradiate too cheap in energy cost the queens should be able to cast 2 spawn broodlings -- also iradiate is better.
Also while were at it spawn broodlings should work on science vessels!
Amazing game!
Midas forever left out of SKT "Dynasty"
the beginning of this game is how id imagine id play terran just to shut down muta bc theyre so powerful
What's the answer to queens? Mech always gets obliterated and it doesn't ever seem close.
Maybe careful scouting and EMP
Wraiths, battlecruisers, and valks. Basically you gotta find the queens and kill em with your air. Goliaths don't do enough damage fast enough to stop it, and good luck landing EMPs it's hard enough to do that vs protoss! Mech means you won't have enough gas to get many vessels either unlike SK terran build. Wraiths are probably the best queen hunters but I'd say BCs are nice too because the zerg won't have defiler..no plague or dark swarm makes hydras not nearly as good.
Good positioning with goliaths and tanks is already enough at even game.
Emp straight up destroys queens.
Even here if Fantasy just kept his valk production he could win.
Great game
Big_broodling_plays_are_my_love_language
@9:25 - As a lifelong Terran player, is extremely frustrating to watch Zerg run-bys..
ONE BUNKER w 2 FireBats at the front of Base and it's defended the WHOLE game.
@artosis, please let Terrans know, Bunks are only 100 minerals but permanently end ling runbys.
It seems that the only possible counter to queens mech has is lucky EMP or actively trying to hunt them down with wraiths/valks. Otherwise they will destroy tanks, even if most of them dies in the process (so goliaths do not work).
I guess you need really good information about where the queens are and if they are being built to counter. But yeah, once they are built, in position, and have the energy they are impossible to counter. One way to tell might be if the Zerg is not producing as much gas heavy units for 2 minutes or if they are refusing battle for about 2 minutes. If you have the sense they are doing this, build turrets in advance of the tanks and retreat.
What's a Wahl Kehrie?
great game
Algoritimun, nihilum.
Anyone else stay up to date on both StarCraft 1 and 2 🤔also I love that this community continues to keep this beautiful game alive . Shame the idea of a sc3 is a miracle shot but we will forever keep the originals alive
Honestly at this point I wouldn’t trust Blizzard to make a good game if they made sc3. It would likely be a pay to win crypto hellscape
Look what happened Diablo 4. I love to see sc3 but dont think its good 😢
mechs now a days are just not the same. back during flash days they were unstoppable. queens get shot down before they could even cast the spell.
Missed Fantasy! As far as I understand his mech style was influenced by iLoveOovee, who was his coach/mentor. You can’t be excuse for casting a Fantasy game without mentioning Vulture Terrorist! Lol
Anyway good Queen play but think that Fantasy should’ve kept his Valkyries alive during that timing attack. Also his choice of attack wasn’t the best . I think he would’ve had more success attacking the natural and third. His choice of expansion cost him as well, he should’ve gone with the 12oclock probably… but very exciting game. Can’t believe he defended well that doom drop with queens and mutas!
Could you cast some TvTs
His mistake was he stopped making valks in the late game, if he had a group of like 10 he could have won that. Also to stop getting the Air attack lv 2-3 was not smart either
Logo!
Also, crazy build. I wonder where the weakness is.
WHY is that science vessel not parasited yet?? WHY are those valks not parasited?
I really don't get why pros don't use parasite more, it costs 75 energy and it's fucking awesome.
Soma is unstoppable!
Thank you
youre welcome?@@visitante-pc5zc
First time you see queens, start EMP, if you EMP queens there is no army.
Wasnt fantasy the " vulture terrorist"?
GG
Cool game.
not flash? REEEEEE
Spoilers:
+3 air carapace is a cool strategy. Definitely gave those Queens more viability especially against +1 valks
If fantasy had better control of his valks I think he wins this 100% of the time
I love this channel, thanks Artosis! If you could please consider switching "Oh my God" with "Oh my gosh" then I can play these with the kids watching. Small request from one fan, I know...
beans warm
Yo Nick. How r u?
comments shall not spoil the result plz
Would you cast old jaedong vs flash games or just old OSL MSL games in general?
Nasty
How could Fantasy lose?
Not enough Valks
Not enough EMP on queens
Fantasy would have definitely won but he was just a little sloppy with his units in the first ~10 minutes. Can tell he isn't quite at that super polished pro level because he's only doing it part time.
You mean a little sloppy the whole game?
spoiler
having seen maybe 4-5 videos of late game Mech builds from Terran, none of them seem to be able to close the game out. The strategy seems flawed, having a very immobile army against Zerg seems like a big weakness. Once queens come out, its gg
Fantasy will destroy everybody in the next ASL he will be playing in....mark my words
mech dont work vs zerg...
I've seen it beat several zerg players at the pro level. But it doesn't work well once a zerg manages to get 10+ queens out!
Zerg must always do make Queens against Protoss, it could easily missup protoss offensive, and mixed with defilers that is just the perfect strategy.. why almost nobody do it? I dont know, maybe they love tobe stormed by protoss.. 🤷🏻🤷🏻
Queens die easily to corsairs, and there is nothing zerg really can do to prevent it. Also Protoss is usually way more active on map so Zerg just does not have 3 free minutes to build up queen squad while drinking coffee.
@@amai2307 I guess that is a categoric answer, for sure this startegy has worked some time in history, not a lot of queens but just 3 or 4 to prevent, I mean not an entire strategy based on queens..
@@onprint4868 that thing works well vs terran because of 2 things.
1) slow rate of tank production.
2) tanks cant attack queens.
3) tanks cost more than queens.
All of this doesnt apply to protoss, at best
Queens can make broodlings from templars or dragoons because both reavers and archons are immune to it.
On top of it it is quite common to protoss to have observers and overall match up has more contact between players. Zerg doesnt have that many free time to sit back and hoard queens, protoss is more likely to feel that your ground forces are weak and just push onto your bases.
And dont forget at fight itself it's common for protoss to have observers so even during battle itself protoss is likely to have better vision than terran.
Anti spoiler comment. Upvote plz
Gg
at 8:40, there was 1 sunken and some lings and hydras. All Fantasy had to do was stim and attack-move and win the game, but instead he walked away and let the zerg attack him and do massive damage.
We can see that as observers but Fantasy can't see that. There might be 3 sunkens and 12 lings up that ramp and those dozen marines are literally all of Fantasy's map control, if he loses 3 or 4 of them probing up the ramp he might just get run over by the lings anyways.
Why would he even risk the marines when he has 2 siege tanks on the way with siege mode that can easily bust the sunkens anyways. You might say he could scan but he needs to save his scans for that push in case he needs to see the high ground for tank fire or if he needs to reveal surprise lurkers. Soma's zerglings found the one weakness in what otherwise would have been a massive timing attack and deflected it.
@@Atillarous it was too early for there to be completed lurks positioned and burrowed by the time he got there. If that was his reasoning, he would not even haven been that far out on the map, because the lurkers could be anywhere. Pros know these timings well so he would have known that, and he would have also known that the whole reason he was sending out those MM was to do damage as a timing attack. There is literally no reason to send out a terran army and do nothing with it and keep them out there when the timing window have passed.
Stop mentioning spoilers about other tournaments/games in the video
let us take a look at the word "valkyrie" do we see any "O's" in there???
Fantasy is knida bad with mech in TvZ :( Flash plays with mech against zerg so much better
: )
Hahah fantasy is noob
So close, omg, it's annoying that Zerg has to have double the skills to beat the Terran, Terran units are too cost efficient and too imba and need a nerf:
Blizzard, I mean Microsofot, need to hire me to:
-- Siege tanks animation time increased to 10 seconds
-- Siege tanks unsiege mode damage reduced by 50%
-- Stim cost 20 HP
-- Valks move 10% slower and have 20 reduced HP.
Bro, are you aware that current balance is Zerg >= Terran > Protoss?
@@amai2307 never heard of it, and disagree. I think all the Terran players have inferior skills compared to Zerg and Protoss players. Terran can Irridiate all day on the zerg and siege the Protoss with minimal economy.