Hugely Underused Spell? - RoyaL vs Sacsri
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
- Do you think Restoration Deserves a Buff? RoyaL (T) vs Sacsri (Z) on Neo Sylphid.
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Ok.... He got restoration but, I didn't see him use it once. Well played.
lmao
that y it underused
To be fair, he only asked if it was underused. Another one of life's unanswerable questions
nt@@mackhomie6
It's a spell that's totally in-line with Terran OCD.
Gotta have the despell just so I CAN remove Plague if I wanted to 😆
It's prbly more useful to use against Lockdown or Stasis I imagine. Still crazy niche tho and APM just better used elsewhere.
Thanks for the brief explanation about restoration. I would wonder about that often while watching games.
Irradiated ultralisks are definitely the inspiration for their upgrade in heart of the swarm campaign. The situation really determines how effective the spell becomes, sometimes it works completely against you like a bad storm
DM on marines feels better vs Ultras than Irradiate, the hard part is clicking on your marines and not the ultras.
@@cidiousblack2136 If I D matrix my enemy's ultra I'll just gg out of the game
@@joemcgilton2091 There was a pro game maybe from last year that Artosis casted where an Utralisk got irradiated and D-Matrixed.
If pros can do it an not GG so can you!
I've seen Royal use blind on Overlords, too, and not from some "I have too much money" POV but a rough TvZ where blinding it gave a total sneak ability over a pivotal bridge. He isn't scared of innovating. You know what I miss? When he was using Lockdown in TvP late game. It's just so much APM managing that much extra and making it worth the investment.
Lockdown is also _much_ more expensive. You have to get the Covert Ops just to research it, and ghosts cost -100- 75 gas a piece.
@@EebstertheGreat Yeah, it's a huge investment. The problem really is, "Will this actually help me 4-5 minutes later?"
@@EebstertheGreat ghosts cost 75 gas.
And they die to 1 storm, 1 reaver shot. They die pretty quick against everything protoss has.
@@sebdeef1086 I know. Everyone knows how much it costs. It's still a one-shot Maelstrom vs. Protoss. That is huge vs. certain units.
Wow, I thought Royal had it in the bag.
I really enjoy this format, you're so insightful and well spoken. Catching your live streams gave me an aneurism with how chat seems to try to be tilting you and it becomes this spiral of frustration far too often... This, however, is really enjoyable! Great insight on what remains probably the best game ever.
I agree and love that he separated the 2 types of content for us.
the biggest thing holding Restoration back is that one singular cast affects only one singular unit. it really should have been an AOE spell, and then it would have been used occasionally but still been seen as a very situational spell.
I thought it was an area actually, dang.
Come on guys. We all know that optical flare+firebat is a real gamer strategy here
Plauged vessels and almost maxed out carpace on ultras with little support for air damage ,you know shit gonna go down when u see that
Weird game. Royal was up 2 bases with a good sized army and then seemed to fall apart. BCs did not make the impact that I think Royal expected. They would have been better protecting his eco advantage imo.
He used the BCs poorly, as usual. It almost never seems to pay for these players to do the stupid "Ima send 2 BCs alone at a zerg base" thing. Arty is right: keep the BCs as defensive to help burn down the damn ultras.
Yeah if you get 2 or especially 4 bcs over your cc they can kill ultras pretty dang quick 4 bcs is 100 damage per shot so ya.
BC + bunker is so strong.
You can't just defend and macro against zerg, you'll never win that kind of game in a long run. Either you're able to grind them down and keep them from getting 4 bases or choke them out by constantly pushing, or you get absolutely steamrolled later on by mass ultras and defilers.
@@JoshDragRace0688 It's more likely that they'll do 0 damage because they're blocked by dark swarm.
Restoration is good, and Terran users know it. They are also skilled enough to use it. The reason that they often don't use it is that you're actually gas starved most of the time and thus can't afford it. Furthermore, it is only strong when you have medics with lots of energy, which you only have if your army hasn't been wiped in a while. So, basically, restoration is good if you're already dominating, skirmishing constantly, slowing down expos, etc, when Zerg is struggling to get a third and resorts to hydra defiler
Yes resto is a spell quite complicated and situational ,the medics must been out some time without dying to store enough energy
He spent so much so much on the BCs and seemingly got so little out of them. I understand the players have a lot to do at one time but it seems worth it to spend some APM repairing/retreating your BCs if not your vessels. Two blowing up like that is 800 minerals and 600 gas lost, not to mention the tech to build them.
Was it just to force spores? But the spores survived and they kill vessels and dropships. Spectator here not competitive player so maybe I’m missing something.
Very rare to see these top SC1 players using BCs correctly. No D-matrix on them, sending them unsupported 2 at a time, they really need to stop using the BCs that way. I think I've seen 1 game where that whole sending 2 BCs actually worked and killed a zerg expansion and I've been watching a lot of these SC1 replays.
It wasn't just that he failed to repair them. He lost control of them and they almost suicided over spores. He thought he would have enough time to use them well, but it turned out that he didn't. Obviously what he did with the BCs was not the plan.
Running the BC's seperate from marines, straight into spores, then they get mass scourged, just sad really. Agreed that Royal needed to do more to defende the BC's
Medical school is expensive. They have to work overtime to pay off their loans.
We need more casts RT. Thanks for your all your casts! I love to lisse then and work, eat food and chilling.
Same logic as queens; if restoration saves one science vessel it has paid for itself. I'm more interested if its worth it to use optical flare to do things like blind shuttles in tvp.
1 blind observer = 1 protoss supply wasted... It's quite cheap in matter of resources, but a tiny bit bothersome for protoss to get rid of.
P.S. Speaking about Queens: Queens are used quite often lategame against Terran in high-level matches... But ensnaring net almost never get used (it's effect is based on unit's personal attack animation so it might be difficult to calculate its efficiency), but it's really good. It would be fun to see it being used more often. Too bad ZvZ match ups are too tight on timing and resources to afford Queen's Nest and Ensnare Upgrade + at least one queen (that's like 400/400 resource investment, worth 4 mutas: like, half of a regular zerg's ZvZ muta flock), but if pulled off it would be so rewarding for the player and amusing to watch.
The difference is that you already have the medics, whereas queens are expensive. To pay for queens, you need to get one tank _each._ To pay for Restoration, you only have to save one vessel _total._
Granted, that's easier said than done. Royal didn't even cast it this game.
What a come back
Waiting until Ghosts get proper utilization.
What, cloaked ghost squad taking out defilers?
They only do half damage to them
I have yet to see any casts on this channel where ghosts were used at all. Arty has used them but I dont think I've seen anyone else use them.
Lockdown is actually crazy broken ability. And ghost is worth like 25 minerals and 75 gas. It's a gas-heavy unit, sure... and in current meta terrans sit on 2 bases (max 4 bases during very long games), so gas is sparce, but when minerals are mined out and army spam is limited, 4 ghosts could qute easily decide a match in TvT or TvP my locking down a couple of tanks or Carriers/Reavers/Goons.
And investment's not too huge to start with: 50/50 for Spec Ops and 100/100 (if I'm not mistaken) on lockdown...
Also, DA are crazy broken against zerg, but never used, since maelstrom is pricy and DTs are costly and better used for harassment + Corsairs and HT are already extremely good at dealing with muta flocks.
@@user-ky7lx5mt5llockdown is 200/200 resources and costs 100 energy. The energy cost is high and the upgrade takes longer than a minute to complete so that’s why you don’t see it much. Ghosts only can cast it two times at max energy!
@@user-ky7lx5mt5l What are you talking about ? Maelstrom is definitely used in PvZ. Not TOO often, but it is.
Restoration should be area-based.... like maybe not the size of plague, but can congregate some units and throw a restore on, make it cost a little more energy
People theorycrafting about Restoration.
The spell would be amazing if it came with 2 charges per medic.
If a plague lands or marines are stimming and fighting then medics use all their energy and have none to cast rest. So, all th thoughts on autocast, energy, ect are useless.
Your idea is interesting, I must say.
I like this idea, also resto would be worth it with a cooldown
As a Terran, it's always sad seeing SVs not get repaired. It's such an immense amount of savings over the course of a tvz. Resto is absolutely worth it. Keep 2 medics at the second for resto, then repair crew. How much would that save over the course of a game?
Terrans really need to wall expos. 1rax and 1bunk is 250/base to create a bulwark against lings and ultras.
There is no wall in the game that stops cracklings unless if you want to tie up too much of your army on defense. Late game toss and terran need to keep aggroing the zerg rallies or they get overwhelmed.
Restoration is simply not worth the APM
Only good on BCs. But seeing as most of these players don't even keep their BCs with their marine/medic, zero reason to have it.
@@Ziegfried82 BCs arent good if you keep them next to your medics, you suicide them on drones.
NO SPOILERS
Terran is definitely the hardest race
I am also really enjoying the random ladder games. They’re unsafe and pushing limits. It’s a lot of fun to watch
It seemed that royal was absolutely winning in the late game. However, his army was always out of place and only got the location after the damage was dealt. This happened multiple times, and he eventually lost all of his expansions.
haha, good job with the clickbait title. Got me to watch.
If Restoration saves one vessel, it more than pays for itself. So I am a little surprised more people don't try it.
Well, this game is a good example why. It's also very expensive APM-wise. And, because needing to be pretty close from the start, also quite situational. I'm not sure if RoyaL used it once this game. It's good on theory, but in practice you try to use it and you BCs are just casually flying over 3 sportes because you had to spend AN ENTIRE SECOND just to manually select 1 medic and R and click on a vessel. Maybe even try that multiple times. Though, I guess, just to be able to use it once, you can also just use the hotkeyed medics and restoration directly, even if it's inefficient if all the medic restore a single vessel.
Not to mention that the medics might actually get low on mana and not be able to do their main function for a while.
@@Winnetou17 It doesn't take a full second to use restoration on a vessel. But yes, I understand the apm requirement. Artosis said as much. The thing is, you don't always need to succeed. If some games you waste 100/100 and some games you save 125 gas or more (100/350 if you save two vessels), it might still be worthwhile.
I'm not shocked that people don't get it every game or whatever, but I'm surprised there aren't a _few_ pros trying it. I'm pretty sure it is worthwhile in at least some games.
@@EebstertheGreat Yeah, it can certainly be made to work to an extent, especially on BCs.
The rare Zerg Eraser
I really like these pro ladder games. Nothing beats BW at the absolute top level. I probably even prefer this over tournaments.
Sascri was impressive. Been able to launch those spells on so different places. And Marcro at the same time.
It's incredible
My only recommendation to the Terran player don't BC they suck . Just assume the zerg player it's an intelligent human and will eventually pick up the vessel's. So just vessels non stop.
The restoration might've been to prepare for battlecruisers, worth a lot more saving a BC than a vessel with the energy imo
That game felt like a slow crash
I had no idea Sacsri played SC2, let alone was a champion. Apparently the guy won a Dreamhack.
I've seen Royal use restoration successfully vs Zerg; he only lost 40 or 60 HP on his vessels for each plague.
you need to have a lot of medics though, and despite his 5 bases, he never got enough
Jesus what an insane game!
ty artosis
wow there was this spell in the game? I played Broodwar for like 5 years never saw it. Never saw or used Optic Flare either, or upgraded my medics with the Caduceus Reactor
I was looking for it too... LOL i thought i just missed it.
wow super close game
what a game!
Defilers are just legit OP. Imagine if Terrans could consume marines and spam irradiate lol
Restoration cost too much resources and mana. If it was a bit cheaper to buy and used less mana it would be worthwhile IMO
It’s literally 50 mana. It costs nothing
I think that the APM and timing of it is more of a problem actually - you'll too rarely get to use it. The resources cost surely isn't a problem, just one saved vessel and the research paid for itself.
I guess it's much more easy to be used on BCs.
@@xxXKogasaWe3dL0rd420Xxx50 energy is a lot ,that's the starting energy ,after using resto the medic is useless and is a single target spell, a medic would need to be quite some time without dying to store enough energy to use resto and still be able to fight there's no time for that
Easy fix, have restoration toggle for autocast. Either toggle autocast heal or autocast restoration
wow... WHAT a game!!!
Why did he fly a FACTORY towards a Zerg base?
I literally did not know that spell existed.
There are several things that are rarely used in competitive StarCraft. Almost none at all. Actually, I think I can make a list:
- Terran ghosts - ok, this is used at times, especially in long TvTs. Built from barracks, needs a science facility addon. Has a long range very weak, very slow attack. It can be upgraded to see more (useful for it's covert ops type of operations), cast lockdown - single unit disable, works only on mechanical. Last like 60 normal-game seconds. It can also get cloak (same as wraith + extra research for more mana). Also if you build a nuclear silo as an addon to one of your command centers, you can build nukes there (200m/200g and 8 supply IIRC) and the ghost can launch it.
- medic restoration upgrade - imo way too situational and APM intensive, you barely get to use it. For vessels at least. Easier to do so on battlecruisers
- zergs can get the burrow upgrade from a hatchery (nothing else required, forgot the cost). This allows all ground units, except ultralisks, to burrow, that is, hide in the ground, not able to move nor attack, similar to what a lurker does. Except that the lurker does not need the upgrade, and the lurker actually can only attack while burrowed. This is rarely used, but it is seen from time to time. One way to use it effectively is to do an arc of zerlings against the enemy base and burrow them. They might never notice, and you'll be able to see when they get out, especially if they're trying something sneaky, like a dropship/shuttle. The vision while burrowed is pretty small though
- zerg queens are rather rarely used. They have 4 (four)! abilities. Initially they can parasite a unit. A parasited unit will also give vision to the zerg who casted it, not just the owner of the units. So you can parasite an enemy science vessel and you'll be able to see it, and everything that's around it, including cloaked units, because the vessel is a detector himself. The unit, when you select it will have a green label that will say "Parasite detected" so the owner will always know that it's parasited. Also, if you select multiple units, the parasited ones will have a greener frame/border so you'll be able to tell from that too. Just visually on the map, I think there's no distinction.
- besides parasite, queens can be upgraded to cast spawn broodling. This is what they're usually used for in competitive play. Spawn broodling is pretty long range, single unit target, and that unit is instantly killed (well, there's a little projectile from the queen to the unit, but it gets there fast and cannot miss) and 2 broodlings appear in its place. Broodlings are very weak units (technically the worst in the game, that can still attack) - something like 30 hp, 4 damage, slow attack speed, low vision radius, low speed, 0 armor and will also die after something like one minute or so. Still, if you cast it on the middle of some clumped up tanks, it will kill a tank, and the other tanks, when attacking the broodlings might also kill themselves from the splash damage. This is usually used versus tanks when the terran goes full mech. And usually something like 10-15 queens are made. The downside is that it needs 150 energy + the research of the spell, so quite an investment.
- the third queen ability is ensnare. This also needs a research. I think it costs 75 energy. You target a point on the map or an unit, and that area or the unit + its surroundings (not big, about as big as a battlecruiser) will get ensnared. That is, all units will have a green goo on them, basically like mucus (I hope you weren't eating). This will slow down the speed quite a lot, and the attack speed a bit too. And cloacked units will be revealed (like with plague too). Pretty great versus a clump of mutas or wraits, since it slows them a lot, so you can kill them MUCH more easily when slowed like this. This expires after some time.
- the fourth queen ability is to infest a command center. Basically a queen can enter in any command center that's below half health. When it gets to the CC, it will literally disappear for several seconds then the command center will be transformed to be an infested command center, with full HP (also 1500 IIRC) and now owned by the zerg. The infested CC can only build infested terrans, but can still be lifted, IIRC.
- infested terran - small units that can only be built on an infested CC. They're about the size of a firebat. They're rather fast and their "attack" is to suicide. In melee, kind of like a scourge. It deals 500! damage, with a small splash radius. They're pretty easy to kill. They cannot explode on "ground" so to speak, it always has to "attack" a unit. Also, if it gets killed, it doesn't explode, so it does no damage. Very fun, very rarely seen.
- protoss scouts - the basic protoss air unit. It's not used because it's very expensive - IIRC 250m, 125g and 3 supply. Initially is quite slow. Has 8 damage vs ground (kind of like wraiths) and 26 vs air (2 missiles, also kind of similar to wraiths). The problem is that wraiths are MUCH more easy to control, to have them be used like mutas, while you cannot do that with scouts. And they're also much more epensive. They have an upgrade which increases their speed. It gets decent, but still a bit below what a wraith and muta can do natively. They're only really good versus big air units, like BCs, carriers, devourers and guardians. I guess overlords too. The second upgrade, if I'm not mistaken, increases the sight range (they're called scouts, right ?). They also take a while to build, that's why they're not used almost not at all (usually somebody builds a few of them just to troll, to show how much ahead they are). Versus ground they're objectively inferior to wraiths and mutas, while costing much more (they have higher HP too, but that doesn't matter when you're slower)
- high templar's hallucination - this one is used from time to time, but overalll quite rarely. You target a unit and 2 hallucinations (illusions) will appear next to it. The illusions will look the same to the enemy, but for you they look different, they're like very blue. Illusions can move the same as the original units. It has the same stats. But they cannot cast any spell. They will "attack" if ordered so, but deal no damage. When attacked, illusions take twice the damage. And spell cast on an illusion instantly dispells it. This is good to be used when sending shuttles or arbiters in the enemy base and have the illusions take the damage from the static defense. It can certainly be used for mind games too, but that's much more rare.
- dark archon's feedback - this is also used from time to time, but quite rarely, usually on defilers. You have to target an enemy spellcaster. It works as mana burn - it will remove all its energy and then deal the same amount of damage too. So for a defiler with 100 energy and full 75 hp - it's instantly killed (it takes 100 damage)
love u arty
I think restoration is for BCs. The most Painful for bc is to be plagued
Cool Beans
Medics i my opinion should be fully upgraded vs zerg. Optical Flare on Overlords goes hard too with cloaked wraiths.
Flare is only useful for walking over lurkers as long as you don’t attack them like mong did years ago when he tried to bust a highground third on circuit breakers.
restoration would be good if it healed energy for vessel/ghost/bc/wraith. say 50 for cost of 100 or something. and plague should have nerf of half duration but double damage. so damage to all units will stay same but medics won't lose all energy healing with the bad AI.
If restoration was buffed players would have less reason to use defiler, and people don't need more reasons to NOT use defilers as it is very underpowered.
Camera was a bit all over the place. Jumping from one location to another a bit erratically.
It seemed justified in the late game, but in the early game it felt unnecessary.
Made my eyes tired.
Ghosts would be more viable if you didn't have to research Cloak and they just had it by default. It seems silly that they don't since cloaking is the reason they're even CALLED Ghosts. It's just silly that calling down a nuke is the only thing they can do by default without upgrades.
Templars can only merge into archon by default. At least ghosts can shoot mutalisks from a bunker.
The defiler/vessel war is such a huge part of who wins the late midgame
Anything that protects vessels or defilers is likely strong even if it's APM-intensive (like resto, repair, hiding defiler in defensive drop-lord, stacking OV on top of lurker/defiler, etc)
He shoulda remove irradiation from the ultras with medic😂😂😂😂
Why dont blind shuttels and Reaver i am a noob with not the skills but the Pros can do that. You can Blind Zerg a lot of Options. Explain me something why not Repair on Vessels?
Blind is good on observers😅😅
Blind is awesome on overlords if you are using wraiths. I think its 75 energy..so you can disable a lot of overlords with only 3-4 medics forcing the zerg to make queen with ensnare.
@@Ziegfried82It's 50 energy. But a zerg still won't get ensnare. They'll just send more overlords and build spores.
@@EebstertheGreat I don't get it why ensnare isn't used more often. If landed properly on fast units, it basically destroys them. And the clocked units reveal is a nice bonus.
Not needed on every match, but I think it could be used in much more than we're seeing now (0.0001%?)
@@Winnetou17 I'm sure it could be used more than we are seeing now, since we almost never see it. When it has been used in pro play, it's seen limited success, but it's not like it was terrible. Queen used to get Ensnare sometimes against both Protoss and Terran back when he went by Zero. He used it in combination with dark swarm, zerglings, and scourge to wipe out SK Terran armies.
I think that, like Restoration, it's partly just what people have practiced. What they do now works, and while these other spells might also work in some cases, they don't think it's worth their time to practice them. At least, that's my best guess.
Ensnare is also a harder sell than Restoration, since Terran already has the medics. Similarly, back in the heyday of corsair/reaver, some Protosses (e.g. Stork) would from time to time get disruption web. They already had a ton of corsairs that stuck around, so it kind of made sense. Of course, the fleet beacon is really expensive, but I guess they still thought it was worth it. But that style disappeared over a decade ago.
@@Winnetou17 it's also quite cheap energy-wise and can be paired with Spawn Broodlings. And there's one single use case that I have never ever seen: ensnaring workers. This is super-cheap, quite safe (much safer than drops given the Queen's speed and cast range... although the unit's a bit squishy) and can instantly reduce mining speed by like 25-30% for 25-30 seconds... How good is that? I don't know, but would be intrigued to figure it out. I used it several times on Ladder matches and it seems to work, but I'm not a pro, so that doesn't count.
thought he had it
I've always asked why pros don't use restoration
big throw from terran
The Terran stuck with MM and got no answer for ultras. Why no tanks when he has like 5 bases???
I think with Restoration it’s much better the faster you cast it on your vessels. Obviously that takes apms and researching it. But that makes sense to me
This is why it's rarely used, by the time you manage to cast it on the vessels they are often at 1/4 to 1/2 health. It's a far stronger spell to use on BCs to keep plague off those. It's the type of ability that would be stronger when the game speed is played on slow. Because most competitive RTS are played at the fastest speed it makes some of these abilities a lot less useful if they are not autocast.
Royal seems to have lost some of his mojo lately. I'm judging that based only on his poor asl r16 and this game, so correct me if I'm wrong
my guy your observing APM is a bit too high. Slow it down a bit
cool
Royals tvz needs some work lol
Booo clickbait! No restoration used!!
Guys I have found a strategy to beat DARK archon strategy while you playing zerg do you know what?just practice detected him if you don't have units near to kill him but if you have units near him just ensnare him!!!!!
Don't forget that dark archon cost 250 minerals and 200 gas but zerg queen costs 100 minerals and 100 gas only GO GO GO
The 'E' in your profile pick clearly doesn't stand for English; wtf were you trying to say lol
clickbait title
: )