I may have been mistaken there! Someone else pointed out that it is in fact sewn, and they may be right. I DEARLY wish there were an edit option on YT videos if that turns out to be true!
If you are really wondering if a book is sewn vs. glued don't worry about 'laying flat'. That is only one aspect of sewn bindings after they are worn in a bit. Well made glued bindings can also lay flat if they are worked out properly. The ONLY way to know is to open the book to the center of a signature and look for the threads. As for the 3 author illustrated editions - they are all smyth sewn.
Those Ultra Deluxe editions btw are meant to emulate the spec that Tolkien wanted the original publisher to abide by, but were never made. At least for the LOTR single volume one. The other two books I think just match the spirit, with the extra inserts and separated maps.
My thoughts: 1. These are decent but not great editions given the price point. They're currently too expensive because the quality doesn't live up up the price. 2. If anyone wants an excellent quality edition of The Hobbit, then it'd be better to put that money toward the edition published by the Folio Society. That's the best quality edition of The Hobbit, but also the most expensive by far. 3. If anyone wants a good but (relatively) affordable edition of The Hobbit, I'd recommend either the Alan Lee illustrated edition or the Jemima Catlin illustrated edition. Both are available in hardback. Lee is more realistic looking art, whereas Catlin is more cartoon-like art. Just depends what you prefer. I have and love both. They're not super high quality like the Folio Society but I find they're better quality than the editions featured in this video (such as in terms of the paper quality, gsm, ink quality, font and text type, text block in general, binding, cover art, and of course the artwork, etc.). 4. The facsimile reprint editions of the original The Hobbit, which includes artwork by Tolkien himself, are pretty good too. Alhough I personally prefer Lee and Catlin. Still, any of these three editions of The Hobbit will serve one well as a higher quality edition that's likewise comparatively affordable.
I think the regular deluxe version is a much better buy. They discredited the slipcase version of this serious by not including those runes and elvish writing like the regular versions.
Yeaah, I ended up doing something I'm sure many others would hate me for, but my girtlfriend painted the mathoms booklet spine into a way darker green with watercolor & gouache paint to match the deluxe hobbit, and now it looks bloody awesome on the shelf. Shouldn't have to do that for the price though, but oh well, it looks great now at least
4:40 but I can see the thread going through the spine at various points in the book. Maybe the individual pages are sewn into bundles and the bundles are glued? (or whatever the appropriate terms are 😅) But I’ll say it doesn’t *feel* like a sewn binding, as opposed to LotR and to a lesser extent, The Silmarillion (as far as my copies go, at least).
In my estimation any hardback that is perfect bound and isn't sewn... is just a paperback with cardboard stuck front and back. Clearly some are much worse than others and these seem to be pretty good, but I would still be disappointed. A really good paperback may even be preferable. I'm a Brit Artist with a diploma in Fine Bookbinding and Manuscript Restoration, so yes I AM "picky". :)
I would love to know if the new deluxe three-volume boxed edition of LotR has sewn bindings. I'm really tired of publishers of hardbacks using glued bindings. If you're going to do that, you might as well just release it as a paperback.
I have the lower teir LoTR and Hobbit and i loke them, but one huge beef I have with the LoTR is that the dustcover is flaking apart just sitting on my bookshelf. I assume my Hobbit, which I got more recently will also fall apart just sitting there. I wanted to get the Silmarillion also, but now instead I think I'm just going to theow in the towel and get the Alan Lee illustrated ones and replace these.
My main issue with this edition is the fact that they used a bunch of illustrations in it that Tolkien did not intend to publish. He specifically chose the illustrations that made it into most of the standard editions, because he considered those illustrations to be complete. Most of the other illustrations were either rough sketches that were never intended to be completed and published as they were only "hypotheticals" for illustrations that Tolkien considered doing professional art for (in the case of "The Forest River," this was actually an early version of "Bilbo Comes to the Huts of the Raft-Elves"), or were incomplete illustrations. Tolkien himself was actually a bit upset when the "Death of Smaug" sketch was used as the cover art of a 1966 edition. I hate to think how he'd feel about this edition. It's one thing to complie all of his art into a book like "Art of Tolkien," which is intended to showcase his art, both complete and incomplete. It's quite another thing to actually use obviously incomplete illustrations in a copy of the actual book intended to be read (and which, for those gifted the book, might be the first copy they ever read).
I like that they included Mathoms with The Hobbit, but I think it would have been better included in some sort of Appendix at the end of the book. Or they could at least have used the same shade of green since the bright green just sticks out like a sore thumb.
What some people may or may not know is the fact that whether which copy you buy the text block is exactly the same , the only difference is the sprayed edges , in this case either blue or gold , and then put them in their prospective boards , cloth and leather for the super deluxe version and standard paper boards for the dust jacket standard edition
@@TheLegendarium Also previous Deluxe editions were printed by Rotolito in Italy , and I personally had several print issues , the last one in 2023 with history of the Hobbit Deluxe edition, which had ink stains in it, and emailed David Brawn at Harper Collins,(who is the Tolkien estate manager at Harper Collins ) who id previously urged to reconsider using Rotolito , and so in September of 2023 , they for the deluxe version of the hobbit they changed the printer to Graphicom instead
The runes on the back of Thorin's map are meant to be viewed by holding the map to a light to mimic Moon Runes Also there's a newly announced LotR box set coming this year. 70th anniversary
The loose map editions particularly annoy me. I bought a couple used (one was unknowingly from some public library with checkout ticket still in tact) and of course those maps were missing from them. So, yeah.... grumble grumble
I'm a huge tolkien fan and own just the basics; even with the issues you described, I'd enjoy any version of the professors works! The sage green insert is jarring though.
Im not sure if you would find it helpful, but if it were me, I'd put them Hobbit | LOTR | Silmarillion. That way the lighter green book wouldnt stand out as much. Would just look like a book next to it on the shelf
I feel like they actually sewn them and then cover them with a thin layer of fabric on the spine and the extra "stitched" edges on top and bottom of the spine to look aesthetically nice.. I could get by that, however for the deluxe edition, the aesthetic choice is just overstays it's welcome and just downright felt like a scam.. The reason many old bound books have horizontal lines on their spine like that are because of the bindings. They were bound curved and tight that when it's covered in the leather covers, the parallel binding lines pops out hence why it looks like that.. The Deluxe editions aren't bound like that, it's pretty much the same as the regular illustrated version, so the parallel lines at the cover spine are just pretty much there for nostalgic and aesthetic reason... Almost makes it look like it's tricking the reader that it's bound like the old ways... 😢
@@almerosepwanzaky6342 yep, I just went too fast and missed the stitching. (Bound so tight I didn't bother to look closely enough.) Check the pinned comment for the original correction!
@@TheLegendariumYeaah man.. I've read it and just sharing my thoughts and theories about how the books were bound... I love your review on these books man.. 😅 And your rants are pretty much justified... That small green book shouldn't have pop out like that... it's irritating.. I also bought the regular edition, so far i loved it and the first time i found out that it is indeed sewn.. 😊😊😊
I’ve just got it and it’s amazing Ive just started to collect books now and this one was a grate start I’m going to get the lot of the rings deluxe Edition Next and after that I will be getting the silmarillion deluxe edition as well
Okay, I'm confused. I have the regular set with the dust covers, but mine does not have the Harper Collins logo like yours does. My copies have a cursive WM in that spot on the spine, and on the inside, it says William Morrow. Other than that, my books are identical to yours. What gives?
Yes- William Morrow (the WM you see) is the U.S. imprint for Harper Collins. It is Harper Collins but for books Released in the USA. I prefer to buy the Harper Collins editions directly from the UK
@@TheLegendarium Thanks. I’m glad that was a mistake. I’m probably not going to buy either of these editions, but I hate to see a publisher cutting corners like that.
I feel your thumbnail privileged pain! The horrors, the horrors! To have a souped-up edition of the Hobbit and not it be what you want it to be! You wish that none of this ever happened? 📖 📚 The Legendarium: it RUINS it!!!! We must staaaarve of quality! A chance to show quality! Book: think of me better if I'm returned...
I disagree, I like the way it looks. In fact I think it adds some distinction to that volume that others don't have. And..more information about Middle Earth and Professor Tolkien's creative process is always welcome. Honestly, I may buy that version because of that addition. Like Bilbo I love maps. The more maps the better and it is the most natural thing in the world to put them inside the book. All you have to do is remove them and put them in their own separate box. No offense but I think your being very nit-picky.
Fair enough! I love all that supplemental stuff too. I would just want them to include it in the package, and not feel like everything has to be between the two covers, or within the slipcase.
I appreciate the nit-pickiness. If you don't hold these companies to the fire, they will just sit around congratulating themselves all day. They need to know that we customers notice, and care.
Sorry, the fake sewn binding is a big deal when it comes in relatively expensive books. How many people do you think actually know that they are not getting what they think they are? If its so expensive to sew bindings, how about they not even pretend to? "It makes it look a little nicer" Sorry for this price point that is complete BS. You are coming across like you have too many friends in publishing, stop making excuses for deceptive sales tactics!
I missed that one, actually! Check the pinned comment. I think it's just bound so tightly that I had to look a little harder for the string, but it's there.
Im not a fan of this series. I hate the bright red, the bright blue, the writing on the side on the book block looks crappy, cheap binding, cheap leather... blah. Its imitation nice done as cheaply as possible and sold for a markup.
The binding is NOT cheap, but I agree with you on the other points. I have all 3 but am thinking of just sticking with the Alan Lee box set instead to go with my Nesmith Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales. They look better together. I am just not a fan of stained edges at all. ESPECIALLY gold, but these types too. I think these new types of stained edges are a fad that needs to die out sooner than later.
I am glad to hear that the binding doesnt suck, I know the new history of middle earth set has basic glued binding and assumed it was the same. My bad. But yes, the big illustrated 3 volume set from 2003(?) is great. The dustjacket design isn’t benautiful, but the books are nicely made and the large format is great for showcasing the illustrations. For a one volume edition, the old red book from 1987 is pretty nice. I got a vg/nf copy with the map and the slip case for $60 bucks with some hunting.
Cant believe they arent Smyth sewn binding. My toddlers $10 picture books are sewn binding.
I have the first two, so im also forced to finish the set.
I may have been mistaken there! Someone else pointed out that it is in fact sewn, and they may be right. I DEARLY wish there were an edit option on YT videos if that turns out to be true!
@@TheLegendarium Yes it is true. At least you are willing to state this in the comments which lots of UA-camrs don't do. So kudos for that.
These are indeed, sewn binding editions.
I think publishers do this so you always buy another edition, it's like selling hot dogs and hot dog buns in different numbers
If you are really wondering if a book is sewn vs. glued don't worry about 'laying flat'. That is only one aspect of sewn bindings after they are worn in a bit. Well made glued bindings can also lay flat if they are worked out properly. The ONLY way to know is to open the book to the center of a signature and look for the threads. As for the 3 author illustrated editions - they are all smyth sewn.
Those Ultra Deluxe editions btw are meant to emulate the spec that Tolkien wanted the original publisher to abide by, but were never made. At least for the LOTR single volume one. The other two books I think just match the spirit, with the extra inserts and separated maps.
Didn’t know that, interesting!
My thoughts:
1. These are decent but not great editions given the price point. They're currently too expensive because the quality doesn't live up up the price.
2. If anyone wants an excellent quality edition of The Hobbit, then it'd be better to put that money toward the edition published by the Folio Society. That's the best quality edition of The Hobbit, but also the most expensive by far.
3. If anyone wants a good but (relatively) affordable edition of The Hobbit, I'd recommend either the Alan Lee illustrated edition or the Jemima Catlin illustrated edition. Both are available in hardback. Lee is more realistic looking art, whereas Catlin is more cartoon-like art. Just depends what you prefer. I have and love both. They're not super high quality like the Folio Society but I find they're better quality than the editions featured in this video (such as in terms of the paper quality, gsm, ink quality, font and text type, text block in general, binding, cover art, and of course the artwork, etc.).
4. The facsimile reprint editions of the original The Hobbit, which includes artwork by Tolkien himself, are pretty good too. Alhough I personally prefer Lee and Catlin. Still, any of these three editions of The Hobbit will serve one well as a higher quality edition that's likewise comparatively affordable.
I think the regular deluxe version is a much better buy. They discredited the slipcase version of this serious by not including those runes and elvish writing like the regular versions.
Yeaah, I ended up doing something I'm sure many others would hate me for, but my girtlfriend painted the mathoms booklet spine into a way darker green with watercolor & gouache paint to match the deluxe hobbit, and now it looks bloody awesome on the shelf. Shouldn't have to do that for the price though, but oh well, it looks great now at least
That's a great idea
Please, Please post a video of how it looks
4:40 but I can see the thread going through the spine at various points in the book. Maybe the individual pages are sewn into bundles and the bundles are glued? (or whatever the appropriate terms are 😅)
But I’ll say it doesn’t *feel* like a sewn binding, as opposed to LotR and to a lesser extent, The Silmarillion (as far as my copies go, at least).
In my estimation any hardback that is perfect bound and isn't sewn... is just a paperback with cardboard stuck front and back. Clearly some are much worse than others and these seem to be pretty good, but I would still be disappointed. A really good paperback may even be preferable. I'm a Brit Artist with a diploma in Fine Bookbinding and Manuscript Restoration, so yes I AM "picky". :)
The edition in this video does, in fact, have a sewn binding.
I would love to know if the new deluxe three-volume boxed edition of LotR has sewn bindings. I'm really tired of publishers of hardbacks using glued bindings. If you're going to do that, you might as well just release it as a paperback.
I have the lower teir LoTR and Hobbit and i loke them, but one huge beef I have with the LoTR is that the dustcover is flaking apart just sitting on my bookshelf. I assume my Hobbit, which I got more recently will also fall apart just sitting there.
I wanted to get the Silmarillion also, but now instead I think I'm just going to theow in the towel and get the Alan Lee illustrated ones and replace these.
@FreeLatveria It's too bad, because it was awesome that they were doing an author-illustrated edition. Would love for that to be up to snuff.
Pls do more Tolkien review vids. I believe these are your most viewed content. Excellent work. 👍
The Mathom should be separately bound with quarter-leather binding in its own slipcase as well. THAT would be a true deluxe edition!
Definitely like the regular deluxe version more
My main issue with this edition is the fact that they used a bunch of illustrations in it that Tolkien did not intend to publish. He specifically chose the illustrations that made it into most of the standard editions, because he considered those illustrations to be complete. Most of the other illustrations were either rough sketches that were never intended to be completed and published as they were only "hypotheticals" for illustrations that Tolkien considered doing professional art for (in the case of "The Forest River," this was actually an early version of "Bilbo Comes to the Huts of the Raft-Elves"), or were incomplete illustrations. Tolkien himself was actually a bit upset when the "Death of Smaug" sketch was used as the cover art of a 1966 edition. I hate to think how he'd feel about this edition. It's one thing to complie all of his art into a book like "Art of Tolkien," which is intended to showcase his art, both complete and incomplete. It's quite another thing to actually use obviously incomplete illustrations in a copy of the actual book intended to be read (and which, for those gifted the book, might be the first copy they ever read).
The cloth at the top is called the headband.
I like that they included Mathoms with The Hobbit, but I think it would have been better included in some sort of Appendix at the end of the book. Or they could at least have used the same shade of green since the bright green just sticks out like a sore thumb.
What some people may or may not know is the fact that whether which copy you buy the text block is exactly the same , the only difference is the sprayed edges , in this case either blue or gold , and then put them in their prospective boards , cloth and leather for the super deluxe version and standard paper boards for the dust jacket standard edition
The inserts are of increased size and quality as well.
@@TheLegendarium Also previous Deluxe editions were printed by Rotolito in Italy , and I personally had several print issues , the last one in 2023 with history of the Hobbit Deluxe edition, which had ink stains in it, and emailed David Brawn at Harper Collins,(who is the Tolkien estate manager at Harper Collins ) who id previously urged to reconsider using Rotolito , and so in September of 2023 , they for the deluxe version of the hobbit they changed the printer to Graphicom instead
The runes on the back of Thorin's map are meant to be viewed by holding the map to a light to mimic Moon Runes
Also there's a newly announced LotR box set coming this year. 70th anniversary
The loose map editions particularly annoy me. I bought a couple used (one was unknowingly from some public library with checkout ticket still in tact) and of course those maps were missing from them.
So, yeah.... grumble grumble
The most charming and dare I say adorable rant I've ever seen 😅
I'm a huge tolkien fan and own just the basics; even with the issues you described, I'd enjoy any version of the professors works!
The sage green insert is jarring though.
I'd rather have the maps printed on the endpapers like in the other editions.
Im not sure if you would find it helpful, but if it were me, I'd put them
Hobbit | LOTR | Silmarillion. That way the lighter green book wouldnt stand out as much. Would just look like a book next to it on the shelf
I only know that The Silmarillion is the only book that I fell in love with forever.👌
I feel like they actually sewn them and then cover them with a thin layer of fabric on the spine and the extra "stitched" edges on top and bottom of the spine to look aesthetically nice.. I could get by that, however for the deluxe edition, the aesthetic choice is just overstays it's welcome and just downright felt like a scam.. The reason many old bound books have horizontal lines on their spine like that are because of the bindings. They were bound curved and tight that when it's covered in the leather covers, the parallel binding lines pops out hence why it looks like that.. The Deluxe editions aren't bound like that, it's pretty much the same as the regular illustrated version, so the parallel lines at the cover spine are just pretty much there for nostalgic and aesthetic reason... Almost makes it look like it's tricking the reader that it's bound like the old ways... 😢
@@almerosepwanzaky6342 yep, I just went too fast and missed the stitching. (Bound so tight I didn't bother to look closely enough.) Check the pinned comment for the original correction!
@@TheLegendariumYeaah man.. I've read it and just sharing my thoughts and theories about how the books were bound... I love your review on these books man.. 😅 And your rants are pretty much justified... That small green book shouldn't have pop out like that... it's irritating.. I also bought the regular edition, so far i loved it and the first time i found out that it is indeed sewn.. 😊😊😊
Take all the tchotchkes from all three editions and put the in the LorT map printed box. That'll get rid of the Mathoms problem
I completely agree about that extra booklet.
AT LEAST SOMEONE DOES
@@TheLegendarium Yea. I just took it out of the slipcase and now I keep it somewhere else on my bookshelf.
@@HoagsObject00 This works well, they should have included the booklet contents at the end of the book as appendices.
I’ve just got it and it’s amazing Ive just started to collect books now and this one was a grate start I’m going to get the lot of the rings deluxe Edition Next and after that I will be getting the silmarillion deluxe edition as well
Mathom wouldn't be nearly as offensive if the color of the cover was the same as the Hobbit (like the pamphlet in the Silmarillion).
hi Craig! I miss the Friday afternoon live chats!
Todd!
Okay, I'm confused. I have the regular set with the dust covers, but mine does not have the Harper Collins logo like yours does. My copies have a cursive WM in that spot on the spine, and on the inside, it says William Morrow. Other than that, my books are identical to yours. What gives?
Yes- William Morrow (the WM you see) is the U.S. imprint for Harper Collins. It is Harper Collins but for books Released in the USA. I prefer to buy the Harper Collins editions directly from the UK
Maybe the slip cases should be slightly bigger i.e. wider).
I think it is a pretty big deal that these “deluxe” editions aren’t Smyth sewn. That’s simply unacceptable to me at that price point.
Check the pinned comment!
@@TheLegendarium Thanks. I’m glad that was a mistake. I’m probably not going to buy either of these editions, but I hate to see a publisher cutting corners like that.
Not a Tolkien fan, but I feel your pain, and I love a good literary rant about covers. For me it's dust jackets. I despise them! 🤬
I don't think it looks awful, I think it looks fine
I feel your thumbnail privileged pain! The horrors, the horrors! To have a souped-up edition of the Hobbit and not it be what you want it to be! You wish that none of this ever happened? 📖 📚 The Legendarium: it RUINS it!!!! We must staaaarve of quality! A chance to show quality! Book: think of me better if I'm returned...
The thumbnail 😅
The time stamps 😂
I disagree, I like the way it looks. In fact I think it adds some distinction to that volume that others don't have. And..more information about Middle Earth and Professor Tolkien's creative process is always welcome. Honestly, I may buy that version because of that addition.
Like Bilbo I love maps. The more maps the better and it is the most natural thing in the world to put them inside the book. All you have to do is remove them and put them in their own separate box.
No offense but I think your being very nit-picky.
Fair enough! I love all that supplemental stuff too. I would just want them to include it in the package, and not feel like everything has to be between the two covers, or within the slipcase.
@@TheLegendarium agreed... they should put all of this content within the binding and not have separate appendices
I appreciate the nit-pickiness. If you don't hold these companies to the fire, they will just sit around congratulating themselves all day. They need to know that we customers notice, and care.
You should never, ever, place your books on your shelf with the page block facing out. A very fast way to ruin your books.
AMEN!!!!!!
It's glued and costs what? &*&%$!!
Sorry, the fake sewn binding is a big deal when it comes in relatively expensive books. How many people do you think actually know that they are not getting what they think they are? If its so expensive to sew bindings, how about they not even pretend to? "It makes it look a little nicer" Sorry for this price point that is complete BS. You are coming across like you have too many friends in publishing, stop making excuses for deceptive sales tactics!
I missed that one, actually! Check the pinned comment. I think it's just bound so tightly that I had to look a little harder for the string, but it's there.
Im not a fan of this series. I hate the bright red, the bright blue, the writing on the side on the book block looks crappy, cheap binding, cheap leather... blah. Its imitation nice done as cheaply as possible and sold for a markup.
The binding is NOT cheap, but I agree with you on the other points. I have all 3 but am thinking of just sticking with the Alan Lee box set instead to go with my Nesmith Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales. They look better together. I am just not a fan of stained edges at all. ESPECIALLY gold, but these types too. I think these new types of stained edges are a fad that needs to die out sooner than later.
I am glad to hear that the binding doesnt suck, I know the new history of middle earth set has basic glued binding and assumed it was the same. My bad. But yes, the big illustrated 3 volume set from 2003(?) is great. The dustjacket design isn’t benautiful, but the books are nicely made and the large format is great for showcasing the illustrations. For a one volume edition, the old red book from 1987 is pretty nice. I got a vg/nf copy with the map and the slip case for $60 bucks with some hunting.