I live off the Big Hungry Road. I've been walking my dog upstream of the dam for years. Its was her favorite spot pre-Helene because the river was usually 3-6in deep and sand! Easy on her paws and amazing tennis ball fetching. I took some pictures of the dam during the event on both Thursday and Friday. I had to army crawl to the top of the dam where you were filming on that Friday. We've been down there since the storm and it is amazing how different it feels. Thank you for posting this video. I am passionate about this place and appreciate the knowledge.
@@TheGeoModelsseems most of the reporting, at least by Mainstream Media was in and around Ashville, as it was much easier access. For that reason most of the World will never know the effects of the storm all over the Souther Appalachians. That why your Videos, are so important, and much Appreciated !
I enjoy the views and the analysis. If I was back in college, I would have been exhilarated to be with you. Alas, I’m 75 and college is long gone. Fascinating!
The massive flood has revealed and created a rugged beauty in the landscape. You can literally see layers of time. Thank you so very, very much for your quality work. It is much appreciated by many people.
All of these rivers post Helene look super clean as if they were sandblasted by the bed load and the suspended load of the rivers. Truly a massive cleaning out and I am seeing lots of channel migration and relocation. Keep up the good work with your videos. Great information for so many.
This is the video talk I've been waiting to see. I've been so curious what the scoured steamed beds and gorges look like post flooding. Amazing power of water! I'm impressed with the way you rock hop and scamper over cliff faces. I'm happy now to take the vicarious hike with you behind the camera and commenting as you go along. The maps were great too to visualize the pre and post views. Very interesting!
That stuff is on point. I got to do a thing on rock movement in Chimney Rock/Rocky Broad with it. They just flew us new lidar out in Big Hungry/Green/Rocky Broad, so keen to see what that looks like. You can see one rapid on Rocky Broad that had a HUGE boulder get flushed out of it. Imagery will keep me busy til folks such as yourself start posting up the best LP shots next spring
I got excited when i saw this video get posted while watching another one of your videos! Another level of education getting to see the human scale and perspective of a cataclysmic event.
Yes, it will contribute to geologic understanding, particularly in terms of landscape history in the Appalachians. Many deposits of stored sediment have been laid bare, so folks can see how old they are now and figure out how long the landscape has looked like it does, etc. etc.
Wow the scale of this flood is mind blowing! Thank you bring us this up close look at the flood of Helene! I am sure the people living in NC never imagined this could happen .
I live just a few miles from here and it’s really incredible to see how clean the river is no dirt no moss or anything. I’ve never seen anything like it!
@TheGeoModels I spent the day at wilson creek today. I live between wilson creek and Linville and there are definitely changes to both. I want to check out Harper's Creek too. At the confluence of Harper's and wilson, a bridge was damaged, so I image the flow was significant
Most of my work is focused on western NC, and comprehending Helene's short- and long-term impacts requires folks such as you. Thank you for sharing your insightful and compassionate dedication to your craft with all of us.
I couldn’t even recognize where you were. Unbelievable. Great video again and I really you hope you continue to do these “from the field” style videos even after your coverage of Helene aftermath ends!
there are so many of these places I’ve spent so much time and I’m a little scared to go back. Thanks again for the videos man, it’s really been a good way for me and I would imagine a lot of other people to process what happened a little better. Cheers!
I just wanted to thank you for all the informative videos, you have definitely helped me to understand what exactly happened in that area. My heart breaks for everyone affected by Helene!
I am used to hopping rocks in the Appalachians, so I know what ya mean lol Really enjoying these videos on the geomorphic impacts of Helene. Hope you feel better soon!
Yeah I'm squared away---thanks! it's funny to move through there with such ease. The friction on the rocks is great. It reminds me of some gorges in Jamaica that get floods like this annually.
This is my absolute favorite YT channel. Having my husband watch geology videos w me used to be the equivalent of him dragging me along to Guitar Center...but your channel is so interesting that he's now a subscriber, too. So thank you, genuinely, for the hard work and time it takes you to make these videos.
How that water cut through that bedrock is incredible. I heard one community member state “it sounded like a freight train”…it must of been terrifying. No wonder people are missing..I pray for them and their families ✝️
well it cut the bedrock over a great period of time, but it certainly knocked a few chunks out this time around. desk sized boulders would have been tumbling down that little gorge. I bet you could feel it rumbling if you were close
Wonderful video!! From what I've read on the great Connecticut floods of 1955, it was also the very small (many of them usually dry) tributaries that did the bulk of the damage there, too. This resulted in the entire state being declared a major disaster area.
OMG! You actually zoomed over my sister's house on Oletta! She lives where the small stream meets the Tumblebug! I was up there two days later to help her save what we could from her house. She had a foot of flooding in the house and at least two feet of sand and mud in the yard. I'll be happy to send you some pictures. The creek completely changed course in places, as did the Tumblebug.
There was a geologist working in the 40's - 60's named Luna Leopold who showed, for the fist time I think, that contrary to popular opinion, streams and rivers do little or no erosion to their beds day and day out. It's only in those brief times when a large flood comes through where the entire bed of the stream system gets lifted and churned into the flow, and large cobbles and boulders begin moving and bouncing down stream that the channel gets eroded. It has probably been thousands or even tens of thousands of years since those Appalachian streams have experienced flows on that scale.
Probably true. Flood energy is not a linear thing, in the sense that a flood "twice as big" would have many more times more energy associated with it. Things definitely got a good shake this time around. It would be interesting to know how floods looked during the Pleistocene. They might have regularly been even bigger!
the notion that low flow streams carved out bedrock is just pure nonsense; The New River was considerably higher in the past; as a contractor/landscaper/equipment operator, I've dug around all over the place around the river, and in many places I've dug into smooth river stones and boulders layered 6-10ft thick in veins (some the size of cars), 150-200ft above the current river levels. And this is in Ashe Co., near the head of the river. These mountains and valleys weren't carved out by a little water over a long period of time, they were carved out by a lot of water over a relatively short amount of time
These are such great videos to educate what happened in all of these different places during Helene. So many trickles became big streams and streams became raging rivers and rivers well there isn't a description of what they became. As I said before, our stream or creek was about 15 ft across. Had flooded many times. That day it was about 100 ft across. I've never seen anything like it and hope not to again. I still stress when it rains and we were one of the lucky ones. Even our creek, which is an extension of the elk river, has stones and boulders everywhere and trees laid down all along it. Please continue educating us on this. It's horrifying and yet interesting and informative at the same time!! I'm also tickled Brad Panovich discovered you!! He is the reason I was so prepared in Avery County the day of the storm. He kept saying I'm really worried about our friends in the mountains. I thought ok let's prepare!!
Fascinating video. We live in that subdivision where the bridge got washed away. Thanks for sharing the story of what happened down here on the Big Hungry River. Our house has gullies on either side of it, both with seasonal streams. But they both turned into torrents during the storm, with 14 debris flows that broke loose. We kept hearing trees fall followed by what sounded like a large truck driving on a gravel road. The flows took out a large chunk of road and our neighbors' septic field and pond, but the houses were spared. The video shows a house that was hit by a landslide. There was another place just to the west of it, essentially a fifth wheel camper set up like a home. The frame of it is now in the river about half a mile downstream. There was another couple that live just upstream from the landslide-hit house. They sheltered in their attic, and could reach down and touch the water going by. Thankfully their place stood. If you do come back to shoot more video of the river, I would be happy to show you some of the areas in the subdivision that might be hard to access without an escort.
I'd take you up on that. Interesting to hear some of the folks' stories. I wanted to be sure I did this video because of the scale of the impacts in there and the fact I didn't ever hear about it anywhere. The area was absolutely flooded as intensely as anywhere else. It's hard for me to visualize what it would have looked there where Tumblebug comes in. There's an email at the link below--drop me a line! princegeology.com/about-philip-prince/
Excellent presentation. Thank you. Looking forward to the boulder movement video. I have often wondered how they got where they were and their subsequent movements. What a great opportunity to study that.
Your records are a treasure for so very many vocations forever! Kudos for your efforts - wish we could nominate all of you reporting this history for a significant award!
I'm addicted to your videos. Love the Appalachians, and amazed by what happened up there. Your videos have explained it in ways that make sense (well, sort of...) and spark intrigue. On a side note, I found some really good imagery with soar.earth as well. Really high resolution, and... Layers 😁
We have property on Citico Creek in TN and it floods about once a year. It doesn't get too far out of the creekbed but the size of the rocks and small boulders moved by the force of the water is mindblowing. And frightening to think about the consequences had Helene's course been slightly different.
Just think several of the homes were there for generations. Maybe not the actual house but the same family's living there for years. One day, you have a beautiful country home and great topsoil. The next day your home is gone and you have bedrock where your garden was. I feel bad for everyone affected by the storms.
Little over a hundred years ago, my step family came to the Ozark foothills of Missouri. They knew back then not to build near water unless you had a very high bank with a low bank across from it with room for the water to spread out. I am amazed by the people who built in some of these places rather than higher ground. When you have this set up you farm/garden the creek banks but never put a home there. Maybe an animal shed but you expect to lose it every so often so real basic. My grandfather said that if it was bound on both sides go at least twice as high as the highest historic level by the memory of oldest folks around. He built his homestead on a high bank that was forty feet above the creek with hundreds of acres across from it to flood. Of course he had nearly a thousand acres to choose from. Last time I was down that way the homestead house was still there. And yet in the mountains a landslide can get you even if you are on high ground. Roll of the dice I guess.
Thank you so much. Is there anything remaining of the other dam on the river? I don't know if it was removed before the storm, I only remember it being debated years ago. I hiked in this area in the mid-80's and the river was practically dry, you could easily hop from one side to the other. 11:14 A friend, Wile E. Coyote, advised you not to remove that small quartz rock.
Thank you for recording this information and these places for their historic value as well as scientific value! I am sure others viewing this will see more information in them than you imagined! Great work!
21:45, the river bank washed out to the foundation of that house, parts of it fell off, and the park just up stream of it was wiped out. The next house up steam the first floor was flattened. Duke power used helecopters to fly in power poles to get electricity back in to the community.
Interesting. I was blown away by the level of damage in there. Did everyone make it out alright? For some reason I had literally never been down in there before heading down for road evals after the storm, so I didn't have a sense of what it used to look like.
My grandkids play in the Big Hungry. There used to be a large shallow pool of water that they'd swim in and shallow dive/ jump off the surrounding rocks. They always took a lunch and drinks and swam with all the other kids that showed up
thanks for being all over this and your xplanations n footage is remarkable st.helen eruption n helene flood are my two geo fantastics hope the yellowstone happens in my time also,keep us posted
Thank you for these videos. Im in Spartanburg County S. C . .its all places iv been and remember fondly. Many years spent along Blue Ridge. Chimney Rock and Lake Lure are only 25 min.away. i pray we can get these folks back on track in Jesus name.
I'm a pretty analog guy myself...but I do love some satellite imagery and lidar! Glad you enjoyed the video. I'm trying to keep folks thinking about what happened in this neck of the woods!
I can understand the rocks being scoured clean of all the algae and mud in a creek bed or river, but in your previous videos of the mudslides, the rocks were absolutely cleansed of all mud and stains there too. How is it possible for a dirty old mudslide to clean the rocks so thoroughly?
I really enjoy your videos..they are very well put together. You make sense out of what has happened to such a beautiful part of this country.Keep up the great work! God bless
I sure would like to buy you a cup of coffee! You have really made amazing use of the NOAA data. Thank you for educating me and many, many other people!
Philip, I have been captivated by your videos, Mark Huneycutt's videos and many others (especially videos showing the origin of mudslides). I know the dirt/soil was holding an incredible amount of weight of water but at the same time it seems like all of the root systems kind of stitched things together pretty tightly. I am really interested if there is any indication that the high winds caused trees to become uprooted at the starting point of the mudslides. If the trees were halfway uprooted and rainfall runoff entered the holes left by the uprooted root ball, then I could see how that water penetrated 2-4 feet down to the bedrock basically acting as a lubricant on top of the bedrock so the topsoil slid down the hills very easily. I wonder if the thick forests could have withstood the all of the rainfall if the winds had not knocked the trees over thereby giving rainwater a direct path to the bedrock. I know that area had a ton of rain before Hurricane Helene and the highest winds actually arrived as eividenced by all of the swollen creeks that Thursday night and at daybreak Friday morning. Therefore leading me to be curious to see an hourly timeline comparrison of the highest winds and the timing of the mudslides. Thank you for your great videos, drawings, and explanations!!!
I think it's plausible that tree throws could have started slides/flows, but I haven't seen any specific evidence of it. The big debris flows up above Craigtown started in places with no major tree damage, and lots of pics I've been sent by viewers show flows starting in areas where the forest wasn't that messed up. That said, it's definitely possible for tree throw to either start a flow (it don't take much with saturated soil) or make a "well" to collect more water, which could spike pore pressure and start a flow.
Thank you! I was hoping that many of the mudslides were a "perfect storm" of wind and rain thereby giving peace of mind that it takes a powerful hurricane to cause this kind of damage. I saw 1 house on the side of a mountain that survived as all of the trees around it were pulverized. Those trees were broken at the base or half way up the trunk and they were all laying in the same direction like you would see in "straight line winds." But none of the trees appear to be uprooted nor do there appear to be any mudslides. I have lived in Memphis, TN most of my life, except during college and the 2 summers I spent outside Hendersonville, NC. It really is God's country there and I am so sorry this has happened but I am amazed at the communities resilience and caring for one another! As I watch them rebuild the roads along the river beds, do you anticipate any of the construction work to cause any toe issues (like the one affecting a neighborhood in California)? Or, are toe issues always a possibility when cleaning up after landslides? Thanks again for all of your videos and educating the general public!
I thoroughly enjoyed this video as I have been for a month or so now watching previous videos here. Please continue! In fact, more frequent videos would be great with me. Thanks for your work!
Hi Phillip. Such interinsting videos you present, thank you. It’s beautiful rock, landscape and water. Have been watching treckers in Napal you’re area is just as pretty in a different way. Where did all the excess earth end up? So much land was taken away were new mounds formed? Could you superimpose the wind-rain currents of the storm over the areas you’re showing us. Thanks.
Thank you for doing this type of reporting. I really enjoy geology/history. I have so many questions! At the "old dam" site with the wood post (man installed) , the river had changed it course before. When did that happen? Then years of sediment accumulated. Was it a flood or how did it change the location of the water?
The mud flows will carry those big boulders the mud acts like a hydraulic float and carries everything downstream. mix the flat shale in with the mud and nature will show it's fury. just an educated guess on my part. Some very good video on the subject. My heart goes out to all who suffered from this catastrophe.
Thank you for your fascinating videos of the aftermath of the flooding. I've hopped rocks throughout the Appalachians for decades, but it never came close to looking like what you're seeing here. What are those brightest rocks? Mica-schists?
Dr. Phil, I don't want to sound like your mother, but I trust that when you were "rock hopping" in that scoured out gorge, you were NOT there alone! As a former high rope course instructor, I am, perhaps, ultra-aware of safety protocols. Not only does one risk injury or death in such an environment, but the evening news showing a video of your "miracle" rescue after a fall would be professionally embarrassing! Otherwise, my learned friend, another outstanding presentation for those of us who could not be "rock hopping" with you! Thank you, sir!
Indeed...I would die of shame! Comfortable territory for me, though, and I run quite a bit of field work alone. My biggest worry is getting impaled on a branch stob on a fallen hemlock!
I saw his first video the other day and was extremely impressed, he's a great presenter and educator. Holy moly, what a catastrophic event!. If you worried about our US politics, worry more about Mother nature.
I live in a very tiny, remote community way back in the Appalachians. My creek is usually 6 inches deep and maybe 3ft wide. That creek swelled into 100ft wide and ranging from 2ft to 10ft deep. Never in my life have I seen that. The entire streambed is changed. It doesn't flow the same.
From what I have seen and heard, that was sort of what this storm did where it hit hard. the funny thing is that if you go west of the hard-hit area, things taper off quick and it's business as usual. if you got under one of the intense bands on Friday morning, though, different story...
That house off Deep Gap Rd. (Starts around minute 22) belonged to a good friend of mine. A small group of friends helped them try to salvage what they could for a couple of weeks. What you're looking at is the 2nd story of the house, which fell to the ground. When the raging water knocked the house off its foundation, the first floor basically disintegrated, and the second floor collapsed onto the debris of what was left of the first floor. As we sat there during recovery work, one of the most depressing things was trying to imagine what could possibly be done to the site when so much of the actual land mass just washed away.😢
I had to come back and rewatch the video. This is what I like about your teachings. I find myself thinking of what you said. But I have a Question: Will the river ever fill up to be able to kayak in it again? And, I can’t imagine if this ever happened again….omg….how could anything be worse than what already happened…
Yes, you could paddle it now at higher flow if it rained again, though you'd have to walk that rapid where the big boulders moved. It will respond somewhat differently to high flow, but it ain't done for by any stretch. Another one of these would move even more stuff. Folks have long suspected they happened regularly during cold Pleistocene climate...who knows!
It will become clear water in a short time. Maybe after a couple of good rain falls. We see the same in Oklahoma. It clears up after a good rain event.
The old notched dam would have held back the flow in the BHR because inflow would have been greater than out flow until the force of the water broke through the side. Impediment to flow has the effect of increasing the volume and when released the velocity of the flow producing a surge enough as we see to dislodge houses from their foundations as I believed was also the case in Beacon Village when the NFR gate released 6 million Cubic Meters of water leaving just 11 homes habitable.
@@TheGeoModels You have the benfit of being there however the evidence of the aftermath indicates high velocity resulting from head build up and surge sufficient to dislodge a building. Due to the extraordinary heavy and prolonged rainfall it is self-evident that all the reservoirs would have been tested to their limits. I have the data for NFR and suspect overtopping at Bee Tree due to the sheer rate of inflow. Was it too high for the spillway? Not far away at NFR the water level rose on average one foot every 35 minutes (rate of 1.7 feet per hour) on 26/ morning of 27th and its way bigger.
It brings back memories of how Hurricane Irene totally transformed Vermont. We are still trying to find places that simply don't exist anymore. How disorienting to those who live there. My heart goes out to them in this devastating time. It has made us take a look at where we live and what is above us. Honestly, a herd or steer and horses would probably wash into our front yard and house. Good heavens! Now I understand why people keep RVs stored off their property.
its so shocking to see it!! can you imagine what it must have sounded like and looked like coming down those mtns??!!! its almost unbelievable so destructive and awful thank you for doing these videos i appreciate you
In the whitewater kayaking community the green river narrows was one of the most iconic section of rivers ever and its massive change brought absolute shock to everyone
What your implying is the bed rock, big boulders in the stream were covered with sediment before, high volume of rushing water removed the sediment and made a gorge in what was a stream before Helen that is interesting, it is amazing the amount of rain flowing down a stream turned it into a wide river of destruction, thank you I subscribed to channel this stuff is interesting
gorge already there, but its boulder cobble and sand contents were blasted away. I’m sure noticeable abrasion occurred in the gorge if you know where to look
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, so sad to think of the loss of life and property, praying for all of those in the Western Carolinas and East Tennessee. With all of the destruction and exposure you would think that many prehistoric sites may be uncovered and unprotected from looting and otherwise nefarious activity. Hopefully archaeologists are looking at the area the same way you are studying the changes in geology. Although the most important thing Is to assist people in need.
I literally grew up on this river. My sister lives on one of the tributaries which flooded her house. The river destroyed the only bridge in to Big Hungry road stranding many. They had to be evacuated by military helecopters.
@@TheGeoModels my family has lived in that home you passed on Oletta Rd for 30 years. As you could see, it's completely gutted when you went by. I'm impressed how quickly they fixed the road. It was completely washed out when I was there. That car washed down the hill from a neighbor's house. Good news is my sister's house is almost completely rebuilt. If you have any questions about the creek or Tumblebug, I'd be happy to answer them.
After living on the Gulf Coast and experiencing so many hurricanes, I've learned that you should -NEVER- trust water. That little creek that's barely deeper than a road ditch can devour a bridge, house, etc if the conditions are just a bit wrong.
Over time the rock had filled in above the bedrock. And the scouring of the bedrock then definitely took some of the lose bedrock with it. Cleaning the stream beds. My creek in Oklahoma looks like this all year. Wanna come look its beautiful with cliffs and exposed creek beds. In the western Ozarks
Having walked hundreds of these Appalachian streams before Helene, this is absolutely insane. So much exposed bedrock.
it is. glad someone backing me up on it! it genuinely makes the land look different.
i third this
im 4th guys,Linville gorge ,Wilson creek,bull head crk.i used to hike n fish these areas when I lived in Raleigh years ago.
Although we can't see what's in your mind of before and after the rain, it's fun to read pre flood memories of those landscapes. Thanks!
@@rt3box6tx74 They were generally darker, more vegetation sheltered, and "slicker" in the sense that rocks had various biology and botany on them...
Thank you for taking us places we would otherwise not be able to explore!
Devastation is heartbreaking. Hopefully the cleanup continues til it's done. Beautiful area and unique river. 😊
I live off the Big Hungry Road. I've been walking my dog upstream of the dam for years. Its was her favorite spot pre-Helene because the river was usually 3-6in deep and sand! Easy on her paws and amazing tennis ball fetching. I took some pictures of the dam during the event on both Thursday and Friday. I had to army crawl to the top of the dam where you were filming on that Friday. We've been down there since the storm and it is amazing how different it feels. Thank you for posting this video. I am passionate about this place and appreciate the knowledge.
it’s a great place. I’m still surprised I never heard more reporting on what happened back in there, either deep gap or the bridge going out.
@@TheGeoModelsseems most of the reporting, at least by Mainstream Media was in and around Ashville, as it was much easier access. For that reason most of the World will never know the effects of the storm all over the Souther Appalachians. That why your Videos, are so important, and much Appreciated !
Love to see some before video
I used to live on Jackson Loop. I moved down the mountain a few years ago. Crazy how damage Helene did.
I enjoy the views and the analysis. If I was back in college, I would have been exhilarated to be with you. Alas, I’m 75 and college is long gone. Fascinating!
I was thinking the same thing, but then I realized Phil hadn't been born yet 50 yrs ago! 😅
Well there is always time to check out something new! Glad you find the videos useful and worth a watch!
@@winmarfbd909 not quite. Can only claim 42!
The massive flood has revealed and created a rugged beauty in the landscape. You can literally see layers of time.
Thank you so very, very much for your quality work. It is much appreciated by many people.
Thank you
All of these rivers post Helene look super clean as if they were sandblasted by the bed load and the suspended load of the rivers.
Truly a massive cleaning out and I am seeing lots of channel migration and relocation.
Keep up the good work with your videos. Great information for so many.
yep, interesting relocations above here. some of the attempted relocations out in the flats of clear creek and cane creek are also quite interesting
This is the video talk I've been waiting to see. I've been so curious what the scoured steamed beds and gorges look like post flooding. Amazing power of water! I'm impressed with the way you rock hop and scamper over cliff faces. I'm happy now to take the vicarious hike with you behind the camera and commenting as you go along. The maps were great too to visualize the pre and post views. Very interesting!
Glad I could help out with the NOAA Imagery man! Great video as always
That stuff is on point. I got to do a thing on rock movement in Chimney Rock/Rocky Broad with it. They just flew us new lidar out in Big Hungry/Green/Rocky Broad, so keen to see what that looks like. You can see one rapid on Rocky Broad that had a HUGE boulder get flushed out of it. Imagery will keep me busy til folks such as yourself start posting up the best LP shots next spring
I had no idea NOAA had produced such a product-its quite good.
I got excited when i saw this video get posted while watching another one of your videos! Another level of education getting to see the human scale and perspective of a cataclysmic event.
thanks!
‘Been binge watching your great videos lately. Fascinating stuff. I bet geologists and archaeologists are eager to explore this unprecedented event.
Yes, it will contribute to geologic understanding, particularly in terms of landscape history in the Appalachians. Many deposits of stored sediment have been laid bare, so folks can see how old they are now and figure out how long the landscape has looked like it does, etc. etc.
@ Calling Graham Hancock.
Wow the scale of this flood is mind blowing! Thank you bring us this up close look at the flood of Helene! I am sure the people living in NC never imagined this could happen .
very true
I live just a few miles from here and it’s really incredible to see how clean the river is no dirt no moss or anything. I’ve never seen anything like it!
Love me a Phillip video! Hello from Michigan -Connie
Thanks Connie!
Watching your channel makes me wish I had become a geologist instead of going into the tech industry. Very interesting stuff man!
There's cool things to consider, for sure. Imagery technology has totally change the way geology is practiced in recent years, for sure!
Thanks for the information. I can’t believe how the small rivers re-routed and I appreciate your explanations.
Been waiting on this!!! Much love from rural Burke Co. Thanks for educating us for free!
haha no prob. the green will get attention too. big hungry was rowdy though. the concept of Oleta road flooding as it did remains very bizarre to me.
@TheGeoModels I spent the day at wilson creek today. I live between wilson creek and Linville and there are definitely changes to both. I want to check out Harper's Creek too. At the confluence of Harper's and wilson, a bridge was damaged, so I image the flow was significant
Most of my work is focused on western NC, and comprehending Helene's short- and long-term impacts requires folks such as you. Thank you for sharing your insightful and compassionate dedication to your craft with all of us.
I couldn’t even recognize where you were. Unbelievable. Great video again and I really you hope you continue to do these “from the field” style videos even after your coverage of Helene aftermath ends!
It's a crazy place in there. Had no idea it got hit so hard til I dropped down Deep Gap
there are so many of these places I’ve spent so much time and I’m a little scared to go back. Thanks again for the videos man, it’s really been a good way for me and I would imagine a lot of other people to process what happened a little better. Cheers!
I am fascinated in how water changes landscapes. Your vids are wonderful.
Thank you
I just wanted to thank you for all the informative videos, you have definitely helped me to understand what exactly happened in that area. My heart breaks for everyone affected by Helene!
It was a big one. Here's hoping we don't see another!
I am used to hopping rocks in the Appalachians, so I know what ya mean lol Really enjoying these videos on the geomorphic impacts of Helene. Hope you feel better soon!
Yeah I'm squared away---thanks! it's funny to move through there with such ease. The friction on the rocks is great. It reminds me of some gorges in Jamaica that get floods like this annually.
This is my absolute favorite YT channel. Having my husband watch geology videos w me used to be the equivalent of him dragging me along to Guitar Center...but your channel is so interesting that he's now a subscriber, too. So thank you, genuinely, for the hard work and time it takes you to make these videos.
well I am glad yall got some programming you find interesting! Pleased to hear you find the vids useful!
How that water cut through that bedrock is incredible. I heard one community member state “it sounded like a freight train”…it must of been terrifying. No wonder people are missing..I pray for them and their families ✝️
well it cut the bedrock over a great period of time, but it certainly knocked a few chunks out this time around. desk sized boulders would have been tumbling down that little gorge. I bet you could feel it rumbling if you were close
Wonderful video!! From what I've read on the great Connecticut floods of 1955, it was also the very small (many of them usually dry) tributaries that did the bulk of the damage there, too. This resulted in the entire state being declared a major disaster area.
OMG! You actually zoomed over my sister's house on Oletta! She lives where the small stream meets the Tumblebug! I was up there two days later to help her save what we could from her house. She had a foot of flooding in the house and at least two feet of sand and mud in the yard. I'll be happy to send you some pictures. The creek completely changed course in places, as did the Tumblebug.
yeah drop me a line. keen to see pictures. email address at the link below.
princegeology.com/about-philip-prince/
your content is top notch my guy. thanks for the free lessons on the beautiful world around us and how powerful the landscape and water can be
Glad to provide it. Hope it keeps folks thinking!
There was a geologist working in the 40's - 60's named Luna Leopold who showed, for the fist time I think, that contrary to popular opinion, streams and rivers do little or no erosion to their beds day and day out. It's only in those brief times when a large flood comes through where the entire bed of the stream system gets lifted and churned into the flow, and large cobbles and boulders begin moving and bouncing down stream that the channel gets eroded. It has probably been thousands or even tens of thousands of years since those Appalachian streams have experienced flows on that scale.
Probably true. Flood energy is not a linear thing, in the sense that a flood "twice as big" would have many more times more energy associated with it. Things definitely got a good shake this time around. It would be interesting to know how floods looked during the Pleistocene. They might have regularly been even bigger!
We had similar flows in 1918 and probably several more times in the thousand years before that.
the notion that low flow streams carved out bedrock is just pure nonsense; The New River was considerably higher in the past; as a contractor/landscaper/equipment operator, I've dug around all over the place around the river, and in many places I've dug into smooth river stones and boulders layered 6-10ft thick in veins (some the size of cars), 150-200ft above the current river levels. And this is in Ashe Co., near the head of the river.
These mountains and valleys weren't carved out by a little water over a long period of time, they were carved out by a lot of water over a relatively short amount of time
These are such great videos to educate what happened in all of these different places during Helene. So many trickles became big streams and streams became raging rivers and rivers well there isn't a description of what they became. As I said before, our stream or creek was about 15 ft across. Had flooded many times. That day it was about 100 ft across. I've never seen anything like it and hope not to again. I still stress when it rains and we were one of the lucky ones. Even our creek, which is an extension of the elk river, has stones and boulders everywhere and trees laid down all along it. Please continue educating us on this. It's horrifying and yet interesting and informative at the same time!! I'm also tickled Brad Panovich discovered you!! He is the reason I was so prepared in Avery County the day of the storm. He kept saying I'm really worried about our friends in the mountains. I thought ok let's prepare!!
Yes I saw he posted that debris flow video up. Glad he found it worthy!
Fascinating video. We live in that subdivision where the bridge got washed away. Thanks for sharing the story of what happened down here on the Big Hungry River.
Our house has gullies on either side of it, both with seasonal streams. But they both turned into torrents during the storm, with 14 debris flows that broke loose. We kept hearing trees fall followed by what sounded like a large truck driving on a gravel road. The flows took out a large chunk of road and our neighbors' septic field and pond, but the houses were spared.
The video shows a house that was hit by a landslide. There was another place just to the west of it, essentially a fifth wheel camper set up like a home. The frame of it is now in the river about half a mile downstream.
There was another couple that live just upstream from the landslide-hit house. They sheltered in their attic, and could reach down and touch the water going by. Thankfully their place stood.
If you do come back to shoot more video of the river, I would be happy to show you some of the areas in the subdivision that might be hard to access without an escort.
I'd take you up on that. Interesting to hear some of the folks' stories. I wanted to be sure I did this video because of the scale of the impacts in there and the fact I didn't ever hear about it anywhere. The area was absolutely flooded as intensely as anywhere else. It's hard for me to visualize what it would have looked there where Tumblebug comes in. There's an email at the link below--drop me a line!
princegeology.com/about-philip-prince/
Another field trip!! Epic stuff man
Excellent presentation. Thank you. Looking forward to the boulder movement video. I have often wondered how they got where they were and their subsequent movements. What a great opportunity to study that.
Your records are a treasure for so very many vocations forever! Kudos for your efforts - wish we could nominate all of you reporting this history for a significant award!
well the comments are pretty good too. Thanks for watching
Thank you. You really explain this event well and it’s hard to imagine how severe
It's something to see. Doing my best!
Thank you for publishing these videos, it is extremely helpful in understanding the scale of this event. I look forward to the next ones.
Thanks for watching. Trying to tell the tale from the earth process side of things, as well as how people have had to interact with it.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge . And the film and photos . It’s very interesting . ❤ to all the people affected . From North Wales 🏴
These on location videos are superb, glad Chris pointed you to the NOAA imagery
I'm addicted to your videos. Love the Appalachians, and amazed by what happened up there. Your videos have explained it in ways that make sense (well, sort of...) and spark intrigue.
On a side note, I found some really good imagery with soar.earth as well. Really high resolution, and... Layers 😁
comment a link with that imagery if you can
Keep 'em coming, your work is riveting!
Amazing. Thanks for giving us an 'on the ground' perspective.
Wow, that sense of scale really made it clear! Watching Letsdig18 digging out mountains of flood mud also shows where it ended up.
quite a bit moved for sure!
We have property on Citico Creek in TN and it floods about once a year. It doesn't get too far out of the creekbed but the size of the rocks and small boulders moved by the force of the water is mindblowing. And frightening to think about the consequences had Helene's course been slightly different.
Just think several of the homes were there for generations. Maybe not the actual house but the same family's living there for years. One day, you have a beautiful country home and great topsoil. The next day your home is gone and you have bedrock where your garden was. I feel bad for everyone affected by the storms.
Little over a hundred years ago, my step family came to the Ozark foothills of Missouri. They knew back then not to build near water unless you had a very high bank with a low bank across from it with room for the water to spread out. I am amazed by the people who built in some of these places rather than higher ground. When you have this set up you farm/garden the creek banks but never put a home there. Maybe an animal shed but you expect to lose it every so often so real basic. My grandfather said that if it was bound on both sides go at least twice as high as the highest historic level by the memory of oldest folks around. He built his homestead on a high bank that was forty feet above the creek with hundreds of acres across from it to flood. Of course he had nearly a thousand acres to choose from. Last time I was down that way the homestead house was still there. And yet in the mountains a landslide can get you even if you are on high ground. Roll of the dice I guess.
You can read the topography and avoid the debris flows, at least in most cases. Trouble starts when they are bigger and go farther than expected!
Thank you so much. Is there anything remaining of the other dam on the river? I don't know if it was removed before the storm, I only remember it being debated years ago. I hiked in this area in the mid-80's and the river was practically dry, you could easily hop from one side to the other.
11:14 A friend, Wile E. Coyote, advised you not to remove that small quartz rock.
Philip thank you a million times! You're so informative and so fascinating. Thank you so much for all that you do! You're our favorite geologist
Thank you for recording this information and these places for their historic value as well as scientific value! I am sure others viewing this will see more information in them than you imagined! Great work!
21:45, the river bank washed out to the foundation of that house, parts of it fell off, and the park just up stream of it was wiped out. The next house up steam the first floor was flattened. Duke power used helecopters to fly in power poles to get electricity back in to the community.
Interesting. I was blown away by the level of damage in there. Did everyone make it out alright? For some reason I had literally never been down in there before heading down for road evals after the storm, so I didn't have a sense of what it used to look like.
My grandkids play in the Big Hungry.
There used to be a large shallow pool of water that they'd swim in and shallow dive/ jump off the surrounding rocks.
They always took a lunch and drinks and swam with all the other kids that showed up
thanks for being all over this and your xplanations n footage is remarkable st.helen eruption n helene flood are my two geo fantastics hope the yellowstone happens in my time also,keep us posted
Thank you for these videos. Im in Spartanburg County S. C . .its all places iv been and remember fondly. Many years spent along Blue Ridge. Chimney Rock and Lake Lure are only 25 min.away. i pray we can get these folks back on track in Jesus name.
Thanks for watching. I'm in Greer.
Thanks for Taking US out into the Field with You! Grad with BS Geology 1980..stoneage Technolgoy Thanks for all the MultiMedia information
I'm a pretty analog guy myself...but I do love some satellite imagery and lidar! Glad you enjoyed the video. I'm trying to keep folks thinking about what happened in this neck of the woods!
Ive personally been in flood zones of this magnitude fresh after. It changed my life forever to feel that.
Another great video! Can you do a video on impact to canton and what happened to the paper mill area and down stream.
Your videos and this disaster is turning me into a new lover of geology ❤
It's so interesting. Still beautiful, despite the changes. Mountain goats have nothing on you! Thank you.
I can understand the rocks being scoured clean of all the algae and mud in a creek bed or river, but in your previous videos of the mudslides, the rocks were absolutely cleansed of all mud and stains there too. How is it possible for a dirty old mudslide to clean the rocks so thoroughly?
I really enjoy your videos..they are very well put together. You make sense out of what has happened to such a beautiful part of this country.Keep up the great work! God bless
thank you
Thank you! As a Hendo county native it’s crazy to see how those areas were impacted by Helene. Love the content informative as always!
Laurel Park area was nuts too
@ I know! I have some close friends up on Echo Cir next to the Echo Mountain Inn…I saw a lot of crazy pics from them once they got cell service back.
I just love this guy! Being a scientist myself (but in agriculture) I relate to his passion and enthusiasm.
thank you
I sure would like to buy you a cup of coffee! You have really made amazing use of the NOAA data. Thank you for educating me and many, many other people!
Hard to turn a cup of coffee down! I'll do some more with the NOAA imagery. It's quite good.
Philip, I have been captivated by your videos, Mark Huneycutt's videos and many others (especially videos showing the origin of mudslides). I know the dirt/soil was holding an incredible amount of weight of water but at the same time it seems like all of the root systems kind of stitched things together pretty tightly. I am really interested if there is any indication that the high winds caused trees to become uprooted at the starting point of the mudslides. If the trees were halfway uprooted and rainfall runoff entered the holes left by the uprooted root ball, then I could see how that water penetrated 2-4 feet down to the bedrock basically acting as a lubricant on top of the bedrock so the topsoil slid down the hills very easily. I wonder if the thick forests could have withstood the all of the rainfall if the winds had not knocked the trees over thereby giving rainwater a direct path to the bedrock. I know that area had a ton of rain before Hurricane Helene and the highest winds actually arrived as eividenced by all of the swollen creeks that Thursday night and at daybreak Friday morning. Therefore leading me to be curious to see an hourly timeline comparrison of the highest winds and the timing of the mudslides. Thank you for your great videos, drawings, and explanations!!!
I think it's plausible that tree throws could have started slides/flows, but I haven't seen any specific evidence of it. The big debris flows up above Craigtown started in places with no major tree damage, and lots of pics I've been sent by viewers show flows starting in areas where the forest wasn't that messed up. That said, it's definitely possible for tree throw to either start a flow (it don't take much with saturated soil) or make a "well" to collect more water, which could spike pore pressure and start a flow.
Thank you! I was hoping that many of the mudslides were a "perfect storm" of wind and rain thereby giving peace of mind that it takes a powerful hurricane to cause this kind of damage.
I saw 1 house on the side of a mountain that survived as all of the trees around it were pulverized. Those trees were broken at the base or half way up the trunk and they were all laying in the same direction like you would see in "straight line winds." But none of the trees appear to be uprooted nor do there appear to be any mudslides.
I have lived in Memphis, TN most of my life, except during college and the 2 summers I spent outside Hendersonville, NC. It really is God's country there and I am so sorry this has happened but I am amazed at the communities resilience and caring for one another!
As I watch them rebuild the roads along the river beds, do you anticipate any of the construction work to cause any toe issues (like the one affecting a neighborhood in California)? Or, are toe issues always a possibility when cleaning up after landslides? Thanks again for all of your videos and educating the general public!
An excellent reconnaissance. Good detailed observations. And great use of remote sensing. I look forward to your next video.
thank you
I thoroughly enjoyed this video as I have been for a month or so now watching previous videos here. Please continue! In fact, more frequent videos would be great with me. Thanks for your work!
will try to keep it going
Hi Phillip. Such interinsting videos you present, thank you. It’s beautiful rock, landscape and water. Have been watching treckers in Napal you’re area is just as pretty in a different way. Where did all the excess earth end up? So much land was taken away were new mounds formed? Could you superimpose the wind-rain currents of the storm over the areas you’re showing us. Thanks.
There is/was also an old mill dam upstream. The lake had been filled with sediment. May have been on a tributary or the Little Hungry. Olita Mill?
Thanks for the trek along a river or creek anyone rarely goes. Good Geologic explaination of the topography.
it’s a cool river. need to talk about its overall basin
Thank you for doing this type of reporting. I really enjoy geology/history.
I have so many questions! At the "old dam" site with the wood post (man installed) , the river had changed it course before. When did that happen? Then years of sediment accumulated. Was it a flood or how did it change the location of the water?
The mud flows will carry those big boulders the mud acts like a hydraulic float and carries everything downstream. mix the flat shale in with the mud and nature will show it's fury. just an educated guess on my part. Some very good video on the subject. My heart goes out to all who suffered from this catastrophe.
Thank you for your fantastic videos!
Great coverage very insightful
Thank you for your fascinating videos of the aftermath of the flooding. I've hopped rocks throughout the Appalachians for decades, but it never came close to looking like what you're seeing here. What are those brightest rocks? Mica-schists?
Gneisses. They are just brilliantly clean...the feldspar white is most of what you see.
Thanks for taking the time to teach everyone! Looking forward the next video.
Are you going to be doing a Q and A?
Dr. Phil, I don't want to sound like your mother, but I trust that when you were "rock hopping" in that scoured out gorge, you were NOT there alone! As a former high rope course instructor, I am, perhaps, ultra-aware of safety protocols. Not only does one risk injury or death in such an environment, but the evening news showing a video of your "miracle" rescue after a fall would be professionally embarrassing! Otherwise, my learned friend, another outstanding presentation for those of us who could not be "rock hopping" with you! Thank you, sir!
Indeed...I would die of shame! Comfortable territory for me, though, and I run quite a bit of field work alone. My biggest worry is getting impaled on a branch stob on a fallen hemlock!
@@TheGeoModels (Don't worry, I won't tell Mom!)
I saw his first video the other day and was extremely impressed, he's a great presenter and educator. Holy moly, what a catastrophic event!. If you worried about our US politics, worry more about Mother nature.
Thank you for your teaching, Philip, I enjoy it! 👏👏
These are so informing thank you
Glad they are useful
Beautiful country there…Mother Mature will recover, thanks for the good explanation of all that happened there.
Yep. Give it just ten years and it will look a lot different!
Its absolutely BEAUTIFUL up there!
I live in a very tiny, remote community way back in the Appalachians. My creek is usually 6 inches deep and maybe 3ft wide.
That creek swelled into 100ft wide and ranging from 2ft to 10ft deep. Never in my life have I seen that. The entire streambed is changed. It doesn't flow the same.
From what I have seen and heard, that was sort of what this storm did where it hit hard. the funny thing is that if you go west of the hard-hit area, things taper off quick and it's business as usual. if you got under one of the intense bands on Friday morning, though, different story...
That house off Deep Gap Rd. (Starts around minute 22) belonged to a good friend of mine. A small group of friends helped them try to salvage what they could for a couple of weeks. What you're looking at is the 2nd story of the house, which fell to the ground. When the raging water knocked the house off its foundation, the first floor basically disintegrated, and the second floor collapsed onto the debris of what was left of the first floor. As we sat there during recovery work, one of the most depressing things was trying to imagine what could possibly be done to the site when so much of the actual land mass just washed away.😢
thanks for this comment. I was wondering what happened there. were they home? how fast did the water rise Friday morning?
I had to come back and rewatch the video. This is what I like about your teachings. I find myself thinking of what you said. But I have a Question: Will the river ever fill up to be able to kayak in it again? And, I can’t imagine if this ever happened again….omg….how could anything be worse than what already happened…
Yes, you could paddle it now at higher flow if it rained again, though you'd have to walk that rapid where the big boulders moved. It will respond somewhat differently to high flow, but it ain't done for by any stretch. Another one of these would move even more stuff. Folks have long suspected they happened regularly during cold Pleistocene climate...who knows!
Ty Phillip..😊 Connie
It will become clear water in a short time. Maybe after a couple of good rain falls. We see the same in Oklahoma. It clears up after a good rain event.
I love your channel. I loved my geography class in college❤
Oh heck yes! Love your videos...especially the field trips!! Hope you feel better soon!!
The old notched dam would have held back the flow in the BHR because inflow would have been greater than out flow until the force of the water broke through the side. Impediment to flow has the effect of increasing the volume and when released the velocity of the flow producing a surge enough as we see to dislodge houses from their foundations as I believed was also the case in Beacon Village when the NFR gate released 6 million Cubic Meters of water leaving just 11 homes habitable.
I'm not sure outflow would have been sufficiently suppressed given the scale of the notch and the already existing spilling condition.
@@TheGeoModels You have the benfit of being there however the evidence of the aftermath indicates high velocity resulting from head build up and surge sufficient to dislodge a building. Due to the extraordinary heavy and prolonged rainfall it is self-evident that all the reservoirs would have been tested to their limits. I have the data for NFR and suspect overtopping at Bee Tree due to the sheer rate of inflow. Was it too high for the spillway? Not far away at NFR the water level rose on average one foot every 35 minutes (rate of 1.7 feet per hour) on 26/ morning of 27th and its way bigger.
Thanks for all the information regarding Helene. It been very informative
Glad to do it, though I admit I could have done without the storm!
Excellent and interesting- great video
It brings back memories of how Hurricane Irene totally transformed Vermont. We are still trying to find places that simply don't exist anymore. How disorienting to those who live there. My heart goes out to them in this devastating time. It has made us take a look at where we live and what is above us. Honestly, a herd or steer and horses would probably wash into our front yard and house. Good heavens! Now I understand why people keep RVs stored off their property.
it is Irene-like for sure
its so shocking to see it!! can you imagine what it must have sounded like and looked like coming down those mtns??!!! its almost unbelievable so destructive and awful thank you for doing these videos i appreciate you
thank you
I absolutely love this channel!
In the whitewater kayaking community the green river narrows was one of the most iconic section of rivers ever and its massive change brought absolute shock to everyone
big facts
What your implying is the bed rock, big boulders in the stream were covered with sediment before, high volume of rushing water removed the sediment and made a gorge in what was a stream before Helen that is interesting, it is amazing the amount of rain flowing down a stream turned it into a wide river of destruction, thank you I subscribed to channel this stuff is interesting
gorge already there, but its boulder cobble and sand contents were blasted away. I’m sure noticeable abrasion occurred in the gorge if you know where to look
I don’t know if kayakers or locals will feel the same but I think this is a beautiful change at least for this particular river.
it is quite attractive in its new form I must say
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, so sad to think of the loss of life and property, praying for all of those in the Western Carolinas and East Tennessee. With all of the destruction and exposure you would think that many prehistoric sites may be uncovered and unprotected from looting and otherwise nefarious activity. Hopefully archaeologists are looking at the area the same way you are studying the changes in geology. Although the most important thing Is to assist people in need.
I believe that area has some gem stone reserves, will there be more of an opportunity now to find them?
Incredible, thank you!
Glad you liked it
I literally grew up on this river. My sister lives on one of the tributaries which flooded her house. The river destroyed the only bridge in to Big Hungry road stranding many. They had to be evacuated by military helecopters.
yeah I’m gonna do a vid about the bridge at some point. glad this video got to folks from back in that area
@@TheGeoModels my family has lived in that home you passed on Oletta Rd for 30 years. As you could see, it's completely gutted when you went by. I'm impressed how quickly they fixed the road. It was completely washed out when I was there.
That car washed down the hill from a neighbor's house. Good news is my sister's house is almost completely rebuilt. If you have any questions about the creek or Tumblebug, I'd be happy to answer them.
After living on the Gulf Coast and experiencing so many hurricanes, I've learned that you should -NEVER- trust water. That little creek that's barely deeper than a road ditch can devour a bridge, house, etc if the conditions are just a bit wrong.
Over time the rock had filled in above the bedrock. And the scouring of the bedrock then definitely took some of the lose bedrock with it. Cleaning the stream beds. My creek in Oklahoma looks like this all year. Wanna come look its beautiful with cliffs and exposed creek beds. In the western Ozarks
It kind of reminds me of McConnell's Mill area.