My wife is a criminology student and is on track to get her masters in forensic psychology- she has told me repeatedly that serial killers aren’t smart, cops are stupid. So Rowan being dumb as shit actually tracks.
facts! the fact that cops have literally said that the show Reno 911! is very on point to how things are in their precincts. for anyone that’s seen that show, that should 1) be concerning and 2) makes sense. 😂
This is only tangentially related to the “cops are stupid” fact, but the fact that the judge in the trial of Ted Bundy was so swayed by his charisma and eloquence (I presume?), that he openly complemented Bundy DURING the trial, in the court room haunts my mind.
I actually have come across a lot of one shot fanfics which are based on the idea of 'what if the main characters were serial killers and met in a dark alley'. So this book is pretty much on the trend of fanfication of published books. We've had the Coffee Shop AU and the Serial Killers AU, soon we will have a published novel around the idea of '5 times they didn't and the 1 time they did' :P
@@joyc.e.7511tadaima okaeri is the title, it's streaming on Crunchyroll and was actually really sweet. That's how you can tell it's gone full mainstream because it's a family focused series about the main couple and their (eventually) two kids. Nice drama and humor throughout, also interestingly enough they went for the world building of a/a and o/o is the social norm, and our heads dealt with some friction for being an alpha and omega couple.
My biggest issue with this book is they just were not good serial killers. The fact they're both "good serial killers" is eye-rolling, they rarely do anything interesting with the murder competition, they consistently get their DNA all other the crime scenes, the gore is meh, and (the worst crime) is that they're both grossed out by cannibalism. At least ONE of them should've considered cannibalism at some point. It's giving "well they're serial killers but we don't want you to think they're bad people because we want you to root for them so they only kill people who deserve it and also don't partake in other serial killer hobbies" pul-LEASE. Hannigram did not instate itself as the quintessential serial killer romance to be disrespected like this. Also, speaking of, they should've been more toxic lmao
I agree- the interesting thing about serial killers (in fictiom) is that they are NOT "good" people. Why even write a book about killers if they arent unhinged freaks ? And no cannibalism????? Unacceptable!
There is a universal safe word: "no" "stop". For some people though, part of the 'play' is pretending so those words lose their meaning so you have to have a safe word that is outside of normal vernacular so your partner knows it is not a part of the dynamic. However, if it is your first time hooking up with someone and you have not met before hand to outline your kinks ect THERE IS NO NEED because 'NO' and 'STOP' exist. This is just romance authors reinforcing that the above 'NO' and 'STOP' even in regular sexual relationships mean NOTHING and can be ignored(as often happens in these kind of books) and I HATE IT.
Will, I would love to hear a discussion on how genres can limit how good a book is and the difference in quality between old YA vs new YA because I noticed a decline too! I thought it was just me getting older, but when i read older YA books as an adult that I didn't read as a teen, they tend to come across much better! Love y'all and always love your collaborations with Swell! I followed you both separatedly, so seeing the Ice Planet Barbarians video a while back and then seeing this one today was delightful!
You might also be experiencing survivors bias. Older things that are still popular or at least known to this day after a decade or more will be by default better than these YA books that are only in their current period of brief fame and will be forgotten give it a few years.
@@tallyjones8917 That's definitely a fair point! I was actually just chatting with some friends today about some old books I DNFed for weird reasons or thought about but didn't read back as a teen that I'm really curious to see how I'd feel about now. They're definitely not well known, so I'd be curious to see how they'd stack up. Staying power would definitely influence this debate!
I’ve been going through it with uni and clinical rotations, and what has been getting me through these past few mornings is listening to this podcast. Lemme tell you how excited I am to listen to y’all and Amanda!! Perfect timing
As someone who lives in Texas and works with injuries, The drive that they take with her having a beat up face, dislocated shoulder, and likely fractured ribs, would at MINIMUM be 12 hours non stop. and that's the edge of texas to the edge of nebraska. you can easily add 4-8 hours of non-stop driving in texas alone to that time. Even if they left chainsaw dude's house at 10pm, they are not arriving at brothers house at noon. Also, aint no way she's getting on her knees for double pen. an hour or two after her "possibly broken might need surgery" shoulder is popped back into place. that's not even accounting for her bruised to broken ribs which take MONTHS to heal and typically cause people to experience difficulty breaking .
I have never read the book. And it doesn’t really sound like my cup of tea. I’ve been a subscriber to Amanda for a while now and stumbled upon this channel without knowing the connection. Today I find my world colliding in this Channel, Swell Entertainment & as a Fannibal. What a great episode all around! ❤
The fact that the guy is a serial killer and a chef then the idea that he's also a cannibal and he makes her some human ribs to eat and she asks him what they are while eating. And he tells her that is a dude he killed and she goes "he tastes delicious". That would be a fantastic serial killer romance thing
I knew this book would be stupid and the serial killer elements added just for "flavour" but I didn't know it would be "I am giving up sex forever"-bad 😂🤣
1:23:23 hearing this & thinking "oh wouldnt it be cute if the reason he's being kind of incompetent with a safeword is because it is a think he has heard he needs, knows what it does, but hasnt ever used one before because hasnt really had that sort thing gone on; a gap between the persona he presents/gives off; the sort of person he thinks he ought be; & the person he is. That same gap in which the Killing Is OK lives is also inhabited by the -wtf is a safeword-
1:23:30 i mean a lot of shibari is (according to both midori & jay wiseman (who did some work for law enforcement vis a vis this sorta thing)) derived from essentially torture & judicial punishment later sublimated by perverts, which is why there are still relatively few texts on RACK bondage that arent like... books that get you watchlisted, or the gruesome fruit of monstrous deeds.
He should have been the one to use the safeword. Like that would have been the joke the tension breaker. He is the one who acts like he's the dangerous one and she ought be the scared one; but turns out that she cracks first, he saw the lust in her eyes & mistook it for murderous intent.
Re: audiobook narrators. When I was reading the first Emily Wilde book, I was enjoying it. But I didn't fall in love with the MMC till I heard his audiobook narration. You can say he's Irish but my dumb American brain is only ever gonna read it in my accent. Re: virgins lol. "Hotel of Secrets" handles this pretty well. The FMC is experienced and the MMC is not. But the MMC is definitely some flavor of neurospicy, so learning turns into a special interest of sorts. Very cute.
I’ve heard of this but decided not to read it - I also heard the narrators were specifically in the same room so that they could bring the in person banter to aid sexual tension
Great collab! Amanda has officially outed Will and everyone knows about his foot pics 😂And Katie talking about your Patreon with Maria miming the whole way through was hilarious. Every episode it's like she's taking a pop quiz and you guys keep torturing her #freekatie😅 As far as this book is concerned, once more my opinion and choice have been validated: if I want smut, I'm better off going to AO3. PS: Please make Will read that milking book! Judging by the title it'll be either hilarious or torturous!
If you wanna delve into some hardcore serial-killers-who-get-it-on, try Poppy Z. Brite's "Exquisite Corpse". (Overall, it's more violent and depressing than erotic.)
I had once watched a video where a profiler was saying serial killers that only target other serial killers is not a thing. It's just a made up trope and doesn't happen. That's not how serial killers work.
Sorry, Katie, I’m not with you on the rib eating = sexual. I gagged during your description. Listening to people eat while slurping and sucking their fingers that is vile.
The fact that a book like this was even written and published and read makes me fear for the future of humanity. Yuck. Thank you for the warning. Maria acting out the Patreon pitch was the highlight of this. Now excuse me while I go disinfectant myself.😫
this book was definitely a case of attempting to do too many things at once and thus failing at all of them …. imo 🫣 so sick of romances with insta-lust. a cardinal sin!!!!
So the too many things song of maria Its not even insta, but can itr be because their personalitis just work good together , not "hot" , through its better iff there is made clear why , ok persoinality can excuse a lot, even if a decent getting to know, is sexy. Or there is commonaities but its clearly not good, like dexter and lila , which is the good serial killer romance, because its showing how that doesnt make a relationship work and is more likely to end with one dead. not whatever in later season, in 2 best season
Never been prouder of Katie than during that patreon plug
Why is her little calling card a blackbird when she's known are The Orb Weaver??? An orb weaver is a spider. Why are we mixing animal motifs?
My wife is a criminology student and is on track to get her masters in forensic psychology- she has told me repeatedly that serial killers aren’t smart, cops are stupid. So Rowan being dumb as shit actually tracks.
facts! the fact that cops have literally said that the show Reno 911! is very on point to how things are in their precincts. for anyone that’s seen that show, that should 1) be concerning and 2) makes sense. 😂
This is only tangentially related to the “cops are stupid” fact, but the fact that the judge in the trial of Ted Bundy was so swayed by his charisma and eloquence (I presume?), that he openly complemented Bundy DURING the trial, in the court room haunts my mind.
I actually have come across a lot of one shot fanfics which are based on the idea of 'what if the main characters were serial killers and met in a dark alley'.
So this book is pretty much on the trend of fanfication of published books. We've had the Coffee Shop AU and the Serial Killers AU, soon we will have a published novel around the idea of '5 times they didn't and the 1 time they did' :P
Urg can that at least expected to polished to degrees, god knows how many books started as fanfics a lot, but , can there be more?
There’s even an anime out this season that’s alpha/omega BL so yeah I think fanfic really has officially gone mainstream 🙃
@@tallyjones8917don't be shy, drop the title👀
@@joyc.e.7511tadaima okaeri is the title, it's streaming on Crunchyroll and was actually really sweet. That's how you can tell it's gone full mainstream because it's a family focused series about the main couple and their (eventually) two kids.
Nice drama and humor throughout, also interestingly enough they went for the world building of a/a and o/o is the social norm, and our heads dealt with some friction for being an alpha and omega couple.
My biggest issue with this book is they just were not good serial killers. The fact they're both "good serial killers" is eye-rolling, they rarely do anything interesting with the murder competition, they consistently get their DNA all other the crime scenes, the gore is meh, and (the worst crime) is that they're both grossed out by cannibalism. At least ONE of them should've considered cannibalism at some point. It's giving "well they're serial killers but we don't want you to think they're bad people because we want you to root for them so they only kill people who deserve it and also don't partake in other serial killer hobbies" pul-LEASE. Hannigram did not instate itself as the quintessential serial killer romance to be disrespected like this. Also, speaking of, they should've been more toxic lmao
😂😂😂
Misleading username, you are NOT in recovery and we love that for you
I agree- the interesting thing about serial killers (in fictiom) is that they are NOT "good" people. Why even write a book about killers if they arent unhinged freaks ? And no cannibalism????? Unacceptable!
There is a universal safe word: "no" "stop". For some people though, part of the 'play' is pretending so those words lose their meaning so you have to have a safe word that is outside of normal vernacular so your partner knows it is not a part of the dynamic.
However, if it is your first time hooking up with someone and you have not met before hand to outline your kinks ect THERE IS NO NEED because 'NO' and 'STOP' exist. This is just romance authors reinforcing that the above 'NO' and 'STOP' even in regular sexual relationships mean NOTHING and can be ignored(as often happens in these kind of books) and I HATE IT.
Yeah and don’t bring up that bullshit with not understanding through tone. If they are serious YOU CAN TELL
Imagine a line about "is he really a serial killer, he's right handed." Because of the statistic of most serial killers being left handed.
Will, I would love to hear a discussion on how genres can limit how good a book is and the difference in quality between old YA vs new YA because I noticed a decline too! I thought it was just me getting older, but when i read older YA books as an adult that I didn't read as a teen, they tend to come across much better!
Love y'all and always love your collaborations with Swell! I followed you both separatedly, so seeing the Ice Planet Barbarians video a while back and then seeing this one today was delightful!
You might also be experiencing survivors bias. Older things that are still popular or at least known to this day after a decade or more will be by default better than these YA books that are only in their current period of brief fame and will be forgotten give it a few years.
@@tallyjones8917 That's definitely a fair point! I was actually just chatting with some friends today about some old books I DNFed for weird reasons or thought about but didn't read back as a teen that I'm really curious to see how I'd feel about now. They're definitely not well known, so I'd be curious to see how they'd stack up. Staying power would definitely influence this debate!
I actually did find Amanda's channel through your podcast, so she did gain at least one sub because of you guys.
She even finally visited a furry con
WILLIAM IS SWELLS EDITOR??? This is so wild to me
I would buy them both being serial killers who kill serial killers if they were both obsessed by Dexter or something.
I’ve been going through it with uni and clinical rotations, and what has been getting me through these past few mornings is listening to this podcast. Lemme tell you how excited I am to listen to y’all and Amanda!! Perfect timing
Οh how exciting. I've been waiting for Amanda to join again
I'd legitimately watch an episode of you guys going over sex scenes and explaining why they don't work.
They did one on the threesme in The cyborg Tinkerer. Absolutely hilarious. But yes to more. 👀
As someone who lives in Texas and works with injuries, The drive that they take with her having a beat up face, dislocated shoulder, and likely fractured ribs, would at MINIMUM be 12 hours non stop. and that's the edge of texas to the edge of nebraska. you can easily add 4-8 hours of non-stop driving in texas alone to that time. Even if they left chainsaw dude's house at 10pm, they are not arriving at brothers house at noon.
Also, aint no way she's getting on her knees for double pen. an hour or two after her "possibly broken might need surgery" shoulder is popped back into place. that's not even accounting for her bruised to broken ribs which take MONTHS to heal and typically cause people to experience difficulty breaking .
Also, dude hadn't had any action for four years. he's gonna one-pump chump it to start.
I have never read the book. And it doesn’t really sound like my cup of tea.
I’ve been a subscriber to Amanda for a while now and stumbled upon this channel without knowing the connection. Today I find my world colliding in this Channel, Swell Entertainment & as a Fannibal.
What a great episode all around! ❤
1:21:01 THE WAY I BURST INTO CACKLE WHEN WILLIAM SAID IT IN SOUTHERN ACCENT BAHAHAHA
The fact that the guy is a serial killer and a chef then the idea that he's also a cannibal and he makes her some human ribs to eat and she asks him what they are while eating. And he tells her that is a dude he killed and she goes "he tastes delicious". That would be a fantastic serial killer romance thing
The sexy irish killer/ ganster/ bad boy trope is so worn out at this point. Lol and they always have brothers.
I knew this book would be stupid and the serial killer elements added just for "flavour" but I didn't know it would be "I am giving up sex forever"-bad 😂🤣
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH AMANDA IS BACK?! Yes! YES!!!!!!!!! My favorite channels collide again.
HOW DID I ONLY JUST SEE THE CROSSOVER OF THE CENTURY
1:23:23 hearing this & thinking "oh wouldnt it be cute if the reason he's being kind of incompetent with a safeword is because it is a think he has heard he needs, knows what it does, but hasnt ever used one before because hasnt really had that sort thing gone on; a gap between the persona he presents/gives off; the sort of person he thinks he ought be; & the person he is. That same gap in which the Killing Is OK lives is also inhabited by the -wtf is a safeword-
1:23:30 i mean a lot of shibari is (according to both midori & jay wiseman (who did some work for law enforcement vis a vis this sorta thing)) derived from essentially torture & judicial punishment later sublimated by perverts, which is why there are still relatively few texts on RACK bondage that arent like... books that get you watchlisted, or the gruesome fruit of monstrous deeds.
He should have been the one to use the safeword.
Like that would have been the joke the tension breaker. He is the one who acts like he's the dangerous one and she ought be the scared one; but turns out that she cracks first, he saw the lust in her eyes & mistook it for murderous intent.
Anything that makes me write/think that much gets a subscription
I appreciate you guys not making the bookclub read this. Thank you, benevolent overlords!
I am flabbergasted at how many people enjoyed this book. Loved the discussion!
Re: audiobook narrators.
When I was reading the first Emily Wilde book, I was enjoying it. But I didn't fall in love with the MMC till I heard his audiobook narration. You can say he's Irish but my dumb American brain is only ever gonna read it in my accent.
Re: virgins lol.
"Hotel of Secrets" handles this pretty well. The FMC is experienced and the MMC is not. But the MMC is definitely some flavor of neurospicy, so learning turns into a special interest of sorts. Very cute.
I’ve heard of this but decided not to read it - I also heard the narrators were specifically in the same room so that they could bring the in person banter to aid sexual tension
oooh so that's why they duetted the disclaimer
I thought they were a couple like the Bordeaux's. 😂
reminds me too of the serial killer convention situation in the Sandman, like the secret world where they all coexist like colleagues xD
I hope the fourth book is a Christmas special
23:59
I disagree, the statement is so absurd that it would be funny in almost any context.
I was sub #10 😆 (I don't know if that's true or not) Glad to see y'all growing, keep it going! ❤
Great collab! Amanda has officially outed Will and everyone knows about his foot pics 😂And Katie talking about your Patreon with Maria miming the whole way through was hilarious. Every episode it's like she's taking a pop quiz and you guys keep torturing her #freekatie😅
As far as this book is concerned, once more my opinion and choice have been validated: if I want smut, I'm better off going to AO3.
PS: Please make Will read that milking book! Judging by the title it'll be either hilarious or torturous!
If you wanna delve into some hardcore serial-killers-who-get-it-on, try Poppy Z. Brite's "Exquisite Corpse". (Overall, it's more violent and depressing than erotic.)
This type of media cannot imagine women who doesn't a close female friend to gossip and support
This William is THE William??? OH EM GEE!!!
I’m 27 & I’ve seen/LOVE the show Dexter 😅 !
WAIT JUST REALIZED THAT THEY ARE THE SAME WILLIAM
As a person who read a lot of the Ice Planet Barbariasn series. I know what the spur is for.
Don't fret read books is awesome too :D
a swell crossover. yaay
I had once watched a video where a profiler was saying serial killers that only target other serial killers is not a thing. It's just a made up trope and doesn't happen. That's not how serial killers work.
Gen Z-er here, discovered you guys 2 years ago and have been a loyal follower since
AMANDA!!!!! 😃😃😃😃😃😃
Please force Will to read the milking book.
Oh no! 😂
Sorry, but I had to mute the video: the kindle edition is a 99p Daily Deal today and you've intrigued me enough to go & buy it.
I'll rewatch later.
Please review Leather & Lark ❤❤❤❤
yay love swell glad to see her here
Dream collab
Natural Born Killers, but make them Dexter and with personalities like burnt toast lol
Swell
and is william really her editor, you cant put her in imaginary book jail will
Sorry, Katie, I’m not with you on the rib eating = sexual. I gagged during your description. Listening to people eat while slurping and sucking their fingers that is vile.
lol I don’t actually find chowing down on flesh all that appealing - I was hungry
The fact that a book like this was even written and published and read makes me fear for the future of humanity. Yuck. Thank you for the warning.
Maria acting out the Patreon pitch was the highlight of this. Now excuse me while I go disinfectant myself.😫
Chill.
Love you guys, but I have to admit I am growing tired of you calling every other character a manic pixie dream girl.
All of you are just gorgeous. And nice people. Thank you.
this book was definitely a case of attempting to do too many things at once and thus failing at all of them …. imo 🫣
so sick of romances with insta-lust. a cardinal sin!!!!
So the too many things song of maria
Its not even insta, but can itr be because their personalitis just work good together , not "hot" , through its better iff there is made clear why , ok persoinality can excuse a lot, even if a decent getting to know, is sexy.
Or there is commonaities but its clearly not good, like dexter and lila , which is the good serial killer romance, because its showing how that doesnt make a relationship work and is more likely to end with one dead. not whatever in later season, in 2 best season