A Mercedes OM603 Bosch M-pump gets some bigger pump elements
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- Опубліковано 5 бер 2022
- In this episode i dismantle a Bosch PE-pump modell M-series and swap the old 5.5mm plungers for some bigger 7.7mm. Finishing it all up with a testrun in the new testbench
- Авто та транспорт
![Things I Learned [Vacuum Lines, Wires & Timing] - W140 OM603.97x "Rod Bender" Engine Swap](/img/n.gif)
Amazing skill. I fitted 7.7 mm elements in my EDC pump. I'm just trying to get me some shims to have a shop phase it for me and level the fuel quantity. Looks like McMaster is just around the corner from me. So glad I ran into your inspirational video.
After watching this tutorial, I am firmly convinced that I should just hand my pump over to DieselPumpUK.
yeah its kinda hard to save any money doing it like this, in the end i spent more money than it would cost just to hand over my pump to dieselpump uk or dieselmeken. But its fun to do stuff by your own to
I really like your video and also your very nice DIY fuel test bank!!
Thanks Friesland , i do have to build some phasing tool along with this to since almost every comment mention that i dont have phased in the six strokes on the pump yet
Looking forward to the instillation, and test drive video,
Cheers Glenn, DownUnder.
Hello Glenn, yeah it is going to be a fun one that might upset some purists since i am going to use an rather old not-mercedes car for the swap.
@@Foffe2000 hey, did you manage to make any improvements to the test bench?
Looks like u know what u doing my men!
Nice job, keep rolling........
Hell yeah! Great video
Thanks, it was fun to make to
You are my hero! I found selective shims for my 7.5 elements on McMaster- Carr part number 93574A800. Did you see Luke's video on phasing using the spill port method, shims and degree wheel on his machine? Thanks for the series of videos, looking forward to seeing how it runs on the engine. Very clever tool you made for holding the rollers away from the cam lobes. Keep up the good work.
Ross (in Maine)
Hello Ross, i havent seen Lukes video on phasing but ive seen dieselmeken do probebly the same test with spill port, the opening pressure on the valves inside the pump apperantly is 6-7bars? and Gazika further down in the comment section recomended M12X16mm shims from ebay would work. I honestly didnt think it was anything that would be needed to be adressed on this newer pumps. But reading the comments on the video almost everyone are mentioning the phasing of the pump.
@@Foffe2000 if I recall Luke mentions the pressure he uses for the spill timing in his video. That's good to know there's another source for the shims. As far as your problem with the injectors causing all the fogging, have you seen the video by Tupaoljy Motorsports titled, "Homemade diesel pump test bench" on UA-cam ? If you fast forward to 1 minute 15 seconds in you'll see he's attached tubes to the ends of the injectors which has an effect of condensing the mist down to liquid for collection in the graduated tubes.
Ross
@@rossconverse7038 no i havent seen that either, i most often just look at other videos than in my own field of interest on youtube and this kind of things i mainly turn to books in the subject. Maybe i got to start research more on youtube to before i start my projects. I did try to cut off the fingers of a rubber glove and zip-tied them to the injectors but they where to flimsy and sometimes blew the dieselspray outside the tube.
Scotch brite right under the injector nozzle would work I think… 😉
@@TheLordofdrift you mean directly under or floating in the diesel benith ?
I have bought same plunjers 7,7mm from dpuk.and also have done same things,and just need test bench to calibrate and phasing,also bought real test bench in good price and will make it soon..you will need shims also to phasing exact point.thanks for video!👍👍👍
Hello ive just had this discussion (in swedish) down in the comment section. I dont got a good way to do phasing right now, got an idea about a 12V fuelpump and a degree-wheel, but dont know if i can make it accurate enough. And on the subject, on these pumps you are supposed to change out the roller wheel between the plunger and the camshaft (to a smaller or bigger if needed). Dont know where to buy them, and maybe a cheaper way would be to buy some schims and use between the plunger-barrol and the housing instead.
@@Foffe2000 its better to buy shims because its cheaper,i bought them on Ebay,it cost about 10$ you will need M12x16mm this size is exact size for them.if you want i can drop you link for them
@@Foffe2000 also it is not broblem to make 360* degree card.you can print out it and atach it on test bench.you are really good person,i appreciate your job.i always watch your videos.
@@Gazika1984 thanks, yeah but i also have to figure out a way to determine where on the cycle i am on each cylinder, maybe i will use a 12V fuelpump and put in some pressure in each cylinder and rotate to see when its not flowing fuel any more (start of compression)
Hpw did you manage to remove old plungers?
I love what you do man! I am from france and doing the same in my garage at the moment, my wifes sister is now living in sweden, maybe will could meet some day if ever we make it up there in winter with 4motion multivan 😅 chears !!!
Thanks, how is your project coming along then? I am like many other swede´s rather introvert and as most of the them dont want visitors, but i can anyway recomend you to taggle along your wife on a tourist trip to sweden someday to see this cool country. And you shouldnt worry about the snow, if you know how to drift (TheLordOfDrift) its not that much difference to drive in snowy konditions
@@Foffe2000 its a shame because I dont care about the ones that live on tourisme and are real hypocrites…. Thé real ones in my opinion are guys like you and me and max my freind building homemade metanisition farm lol 😂 doesnt mater, if we ever make it to sweden i’ll try to find you anyway cause i’m a real ass hole lol only kiding (i’m not an ass hole!) 😅 what ever ! Someone shared à part number above for thé shims for phasing the pump but i cant find any… have you had a look at this ? Best regards, Lorcan.
ua-cam.com/users/shorts29rClpEcLiI?feature=share here is a short vid of my actual project on my other chanel ! 😉
@@TheLordofdrift looks great, neat idea with the baby bottles, the pacifier in the top/end should be a good prevention from splashing
@@Foffe2000 it works not to bad indeed, needs a couple of adjustments to be good, i was just thinking about phasing…. What about using weeker ( or shortened) delivery valve springs just for the sake of phasing, that way we can use à 2 or 3 bar pump for this insted of 8…. And again for phasing I just ordered with a freind a degree wheel and pointer made with stailess steel lazer cut and marked, I think it will be good!
I love your bench top setup that you built more so adjusting each Barrel. I have a non-turbo om606 with a mechanical pump. I am planning on putting in a Camaro and obviously putting a turbo probably an hx35 but I was thinking about putting a Cummins Bosch p7100 pump I know they have 12 mm elements
I just won't have to modify the stock pulley to accept the tapered shaft. What's the pop off pressure or the stock injectors I read somewhere about 140 bars
I’ve heard this is a bad idea I thing deboss I wanted to do this
Stock injector pressure on N/A om606 is 115 bar and turbo om606 is 135 bar. People usually change shims to make them pop at 150 bar. Some people go higher but 150 is most common.
Jag har också fixat en pump med samma DPUK- sats. Minns inte hur mycket jag fick ut av den, men det lär vara olika kamaxlar i pumpen beroende på typnummer.
Can you tell me what the cylindrical can that's next to the vacuum shut-off valve is? I plan to remove mine so I can remove the shut-off valve (its securing screw is obscured by the can). Also, how would I refit the can back to spec? Thanks
Hi good day everyone...i need some advice.... Is it possible to get an external Alda on a non turbo om605 pump with 7.7mm elements???.... Thanks
Hello Foffe, hope you are good.Did you do something to the delivery valve holes? In term of size of the holes? The hole is supposed to be increased in result to the extra debit by the plungers, or stays the same?
Thanks
Hello , no the delivery valve holes stayed the same. I havent heard about the delivery pump being an issue? Ive seen people go with electric pumps and you can alter the return line valve to get a bit higher pressure in the chamber where the injectors pick up the diesel. But i havent heard that being necessery either.
@@Foffe2000 Ok. Thaks for the answer. How your pump works in the car? Did you have any video whit the Pump after the rebuild?
Hi, nice DIY !!! have you set up the injection quantity at certain rack travel for low idle?
Hey Edgar, yes i did measure where the rack sits in its idle postion and a check on the amount of fuel on idle. And since i had two pumps i double checked if they seemed to be the same.
@@Foffe2000 ok nice, can you remember how many mm of rack travel & cc it was?
We have similar diy , but unfortunately we forgot to check that before dismantling,,,,
@@edzal1 no sorry, theres so wery little so i let it run for about five minutes and maybe got out 5ml , så 1ml per minute? i dont remember exactly so its just a "guestimate"
@@Foffe2000 ok, tnx,, as far I've seen from dieselmekens videos it's 8-11 cc depending on engine size.
I saw you do taimer on cellphone,,,
We do the same for calibrating we run the pump for 1minute, then calculate 1000 strokes,,,
And is it important to make sure the helix of the elements are faced a certain way upon installing them or does it not matter
Yeah, the helix is adjustable on each injector element. But you can mount them 180degrees wrong and its hard to notice that until its to late and then you will have to start over
What was the point of the side plate and bolts before removing the camshaft and how did you get the bolts to tighten up I saw nothing threaded?
the plate have small half-circle slots in in to evenly space out those bolts, the bolts themself got a smaller diameter in the end thats slightly excentric, i mount the bolts with that excenter pointing down, the smaller diameter matches into holes in a part of the injector barrel, i twist the bolt half a turn to realese the spring pressure on each injector and then i can remove the camshaft.
Hi pal, nice work. Ive recently had a pump built by my local injection pump shop they fitted the 7.7 elements but im only getting 130cc out of it like you did. The elements are said to produce 170cc plus. Did you ever find out why your pump only flowed to 130cc? Thank you
No, i didnt. I tought it was the bench itself and mainly the injectors that got me the lower results? But i am mainly after consistency between the injectors. The amount of fuel (130cc) was enough for the engine i mounted that pump on (the jaguar build)
Hi, great video for learning about this pump! Do you have the bosch part number for this 7,7mm element by the way?
those are sold by DPUK , dont belive they are related to bosch in any way?
@@Foffe2000 what s the original pump elements part number
Hello. Do you have som dfx cutting file to share for the holder and for cam lock tool?
Hi friend. Good job . Have you tried the new pump ? Does it work ?
Yes, i mounted it on a OM606 for a Jaguar , there is a Jaguar OM606 buld somewhere here on this channel
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Ett tips skulle vara att hålla ner stopparmen, varva upp motorn och sen samtidigt som du börjar tidtagningen släpper du upp stoppen tillbaka 😉
kanske inte syns på filmen, men vid flertal tester har jag varvat upp och påbörjat tid-tagning vid full-gas, innan full gas så är det endast mängden diesel för tomgång och det syns knappt ens från spridarna
Hur gjorde du för att kontrollera och justera insprutningspunkten på varje cylinder när du bytte element? :)
insprutningstrycket är densamma oavsett element, det som är ändrat på pumpen är volymen och möjligen helix-vinkeln vilket jag gissar på är liknande original första 25-50% för att sedan kanske ha en brantare vinkel för mer flöde. Insprutarna längst upp på bänken är dom som har ett inställt öppningstryck vilket om jag minns rätt ligger på ca 115 bar (icke turbo spridare), dessa har jag kört i en testbänk vilket kan ses i nån av mina äldre videor.
@@Foffe2000 Du satte alltså i elementen utan att kontrollera insprutningsgraderna på varje element och ändra till rätt storlek på "hjulet" som går mot kammen i pumpen? :)
Sen finns det något sätt att få längre slaglängd på gasen i pumpen, jag vet inte vad det är man gör men jag vet att det går få några mm till och det är troligen där dom sista CC finns :)
@@flakisgarage4936 Okej du menar vinkeln mellan varje insprutare, jag har än så länge inget bra sätt att mäta detta. Förklarar i den tidigare videon att jag har nån idé om en gradskiva på pumpmotorn men ännu ingen bra lösning för att kontrollmäta själva insprutarna utan att riva lös backventilerna. Kanske går att lösa med en elektrisk bränslepump som tvångsmatar kammaren. Angående spridarna och CC så slår pumpelement nr1 i huset på pumpen nu vid full gas, jag skulle kunna försöka backa samtliga någon tiondel mer bakåt, men då riskerar jag att tappa tomgången istället. Men ställde ub denna på 110ML, passar nog bra till kommande bygget oavsett.
You didn't show that you drill or machinery anything. So does bigger elements fit to stock pump straigth?
Yes, the elements outer diameter (and height) are the same. Its like a bored up cylinder on a engine
Hello, is chance to get stl. or 3d files of your holder plate and the one on side of pump ? or if you have only measurements in PDF. that might help a lot.
hey Luke, i looked today and felt pretty sure i would find the file of the plate for the bosch pump, but i cant find it! sorry. Had one set of files on a usb-stick on my keychain witch is gone but tought i did keep backups on the computer, but no such luck.
Wow
Bello
I have an original Mercedes W201 2.5 Turbo and I would like to give it just a little more diesel flow so it doesn't make too much smoke. Can you tell me which screws I should move?
Tanks
yeah, there is adjustments all over the pump, you will get more fuel out of the pump if you increase the "rack travel" witch in turn adjust the plungers of each injector. Remove the back cover of the pump (i think its six torx screws) seeing it from the drivers side facing forward you got in the lowest left side a screw locked with a nut. Loosen the nut and back the screw maybe a quarter of half a turn and remember to tighten the lock nut. Now you can remount the cover with the six bolts, and test start the engine, when the engine is warm take notes on where the idle speed are at on the rpm meter (it will probebly be a bit high). Then you need to adjust the idle, you then need to remove a round a bit thicker cover just above of the six-bolt cover and there in the bottom you have the rough-adjustment of the idle speed. Since you seem to have a OM605 and propebly need to remove the intake to get to the pump you might want to do both adjustments before remounting the intake. There should be some good instructions of this on youtube or google?
Okay I'll do it. Thank you very much for replying.
What size socket and how many splines do I need to remove the top nozzles
i think they are 34toth ones , if you search for Bosch injection pump socket you should get it.
I need 2 pu ps 1 formy om616 and another formy om617 turbo
Is t he overhaul procedure the same as on the pump you did in this video?
I contacted UK shop awhile back they said their moving away from 4 n 5 cyl to 6 cyl pumps.
I want to over haul my non turbo pump, if it's not as complicated as 6 cyl pumps I have a bone car I could learn on that pump.
I rebuilt a bosch roto pump for my peugeot 504, it was alot more doable with no special tools. Do you rebuild pumps for customer's?
I have not dissasembled a P or MW pump thats fitted to the 615-617 mercedes engines, but they seem to be a different breed, if i could guess its simpler to rebuild one of those if you just want more diesel/power since it seems like the pump-barrell and pump-piston both can be pulled out from the top, compared to the M-pump in my video where the barrell have to be taken out trough the bottom wich takes alot more dissasembling to do. I am not rebuilding pumps for customers, this is just a hobby
Why thank you I may try disassembly of the w115 4cyl pump off a usa parts car I have and see if I can overhaul it what plungers does it come with,and we're can I get bigger ones also I may should replace the camshaft in the motor,I should most likely get a euro pump and upgrade the plungers in it.it may have a more aggressive cam in it too as did the motors in the euro cars. We're Cann those specs be found, usa vs euro om616... my usa car unfortunately has an automatic transmission.
I'd have to guess on the setting reassemble it to except placement using the clean outline after removing the hold down strips on top of the pump as a guide... I cannot test the unit.
Make a video og timing swap pump in 603 how to switch pump
Hur gör du med guvenören? Rst. För att slippa eftervarv å mer rack travel?
Inget, jag tror inte det behövs. Jag kan ju ändra maxvarv och liknande på skruvarna precis som vanligt. men eftervarv tror jag inte kommer bli ett problem eftersom dom nya pumpelementen har andra helix-vinklar och större diameter å därmed pumpkapacitet. Jag tror eftervarvproblemet kommer om du "maxar" en liten pump. Men allt detta är min gissning. Pumpen sitter i en OM606a nu och bör komma ut som video inom nån vecka, så då får vi se om jag lyckades med inställningarna
@@Foffe2000 ska motorn prestera som de förväntas så krävs de nästan. Behöver du ljustera regulatorn gör de i bänk, å filma gärna. Försöker hitta info om rst regulatorerna i m pumparna men verkar tunnt
@@bjornfan9202 Men den guvernören/regulatorn är ju slungvikter, den bestämmer mig veterligen endast max varvtal? Visst går det att sätta upp i bänk .. maxvarva med en indikatorklocka på axeln som styr pumpelementen å se när guvernören börjar minska gaspådraget. Men nu var det inte det jag var intresserad av (kör på original ventilfjädrar på motorn denna monterades på dessutom)
Nej. Den är mer komplicerad än så. Styr respons, retur av "racket" full varv och tomgång. Googla lite, en rätt intressant pryl
10:00 why are you deep frying the engine lol ?
Can I buy the side plate and screws you use on the side? Or tell me where I can buy one?
hello Shane, i think youve asked me about the plate before? Or was that someone else? I did have a file (autocad-file) but it was on a usb-stick on my key-chain and i cant find it anymore
@@Foffe2000 would you sell me that one you have?
@@shanecall Sorry i rather keep it, got more pump builds i have to do in the future
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What would stop fuel getting to all the injectors, 2 are getting fuel but 4 are not
Never heard of that happened, is it a p-pump ? i would guess gummed upp injectors is possible. Have you tried bleeding all the injectors?
@@Foffe2000 yes ,not getting any fuel to 4 of the pipes
@@Mike-yq6jg no i cant figure out why it would be like that, all plungers are located in the same chamber to pick up the diesel fuel (if its a bosch p-pump) you might be able to see most of the moving parts by dismantle the side-cover and move then rack by adjusting the throttle lever and see if all plungers follow along on the rack.
Can I get OM606 manual transmission pump to buy
i think you are asking if i can rebuild a pump for you, No these are not nearly as well built as the other companys you could contact (Dieselmeken , Dieselpump UK, Blacksmoke etc) the pricing on their pumps are okey in my eyes.
@@Foffe2000 Also Germany's Tomnik. Who did much of the initial research on the larger elements.
Did you stop making videos ? Please make more 🙏
Hello Palle, i am currently working on my wheel-loader (and im filming it) there i will give an explenation on why there are so few videos 2023 (all good news)
I appreciate the video still but it would have been nice if there was the slightest bit of explanation going on. When you dig in between the two case portions, no explanation of why or what you are disconnect/reconnecting. No explanation or shots of getting the elements out or in either. I found this video looking around in preparation for doing the same job.
well i think it would be hard to please everyone on these videos, they shouldnt be to loong , not to technical (some just want the journey and end result) not enough technical (someone who wants to do the same thing and dont give a hoot about music, video production or the end result) so as i said .. hard to please everyone on youtube.
One factor that plays in is that i am struggeling to find all the technical words in english "on the fly" as most would. Finding the right words at the same time as you take something apart. That can be fixed with more voice-over where i sit at home with a beer and just comment on my own video and edit that in, so maybe i should to that more often in my future videos
Hello ! So have you tried pingpong balls ?
I have found a very cheap way
Greetings from germany, is the Flow Rate Screw a Smal on down on the left side ?
yepp, from the drivers position lower left corner, anti clockwise if you want more rack-travel and by that more fuel. You will have to adjust the idle-speed accordingly.
@@Foffe2000 thx mate
@@Foffe2000 my pump is Build a Little Bit Different, i Took a picture of it, do you have a Instagram Account ?
@@dersozialist153 No sorry, if its an mercedes just say model engine (300D 220 etc) and year.