STOCK 603 606 Pumps, MAX BHP???? Dieselpumpuk
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- Опубліковано 25 вер 2024
- I hope this helps answer the commonly asked question, what is the max power from a stock mech pump.
To buy a Dieselpumpuk custom pump click the link below
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While you explain what’s going on, no one watching this is doubting your knowledge about the Merc injection pump. The level of skill, knowledge and dedication you present about this subject has everyone sitting on the edge of our seats.
He gets an awful lot of love and respect. As one should if they manage to make injection pump videos bingeable. Now that i think about it I'm even more impressed
Not just the Mercedes Injection Pump . ANY injection pump has the Same Constraints . Inline or Rotary .
It's kinda like trying to find the Optimal Ignition advance on a Petrol Engine , for the Fuel Ratio you have .
Thanks for explaining video 💪
But I need to mention, he is talking about wheel horsepower not flywheel. At least that confused me. You can see that @18:44 , wheel hp is 69,3 and flywheel is 101,7, so 32,4hp drivetrainloss
I was thinking the same too, but as drivetrain losses are often described as a percentage loss it means that doubling the bhp theoretically means doubling the loss, so the result would still be the same doubling of whp.
To illustrate,
100hp - 35% is 65hp
65hp x 2=130hp
200hp - 35% is 130hp
The obvious other way to gain power is swapping an auto to a manual transmission.. -25% loss would be 150whp
Man, thank you soo much for this great video, very teachful and interesting. I'm just ten minutes in the video and already did understand more about the mechanical Mercedes diesel pumps then ever before, it helps so much to get things shown and explained like this .. thanks again ! 🖤
This whole video explains perfectly why we went from idi to common rail with the civilian world on international diesel engines. They pushed the idi very far with the bs emissions stds. Common rail made things much more efficient.
While common rail direct injection made things more efficient, what you are missing is, it generates more soot and cuts your engine life by about 35 to 40 per cent.
I like that billet pump. As everybody had marked already, you have very good cnc machining opportunities. I hope that soon we will see a billet block for om606, om605 and maybe om604 engines, and their advantages and disadvantages.
Bless you , everybody
Love the tech content, learning so much about the mechanical pumps 🤙
This guy is a great man giving valuable information
This is the same with the VW PD. Lots of people think for making power like 300 for example they can put 80% firads in. Yes it will make the power but it's having to spray more fuel over a longer duration. So if you fit 120% you can spray more fuel more efficiency in the same amount of time as a stock injector making more power and less heat in the process due to shorter duration. This is what people get wrong with modifing the VW PD and I'm guessing this is the same thing with the Mercedes pumps. Bigger elements mean more fuel at the correct duration meaning more power and less heat and cylinder pressure as it flows more at the correct operating duration 👍
No bigger elements for PD
@@V8Lenny what do you mean? You can get 80% up to 160% bigger nozzles for the PD.
@@CommerEileen bigger nozzles, not bigger plungers. You will lose injection pressure every time you go bigger in nozzle. Smoke.
Short hand version of this: injecting the same amounts of fuel over a shorter window ( closer to TDC) will get you way more efficiency for a huge number of reasons I haven't the space here to describe. But I will take a crack at it. 1. Mechanical advantage, do the trig and you'll see that due to the way that the piston travels,(piston speed over crank degrees) your optimized moment of power production is concentrated from TDC to just past the mid point in stroke. 2 Thermal efficiency, keeping your combustion in a smaller space with a dense air load present keeps more heat out of the cylinder walls and into your working fluid (air) its easier to soak that heat into the air when its in a smaller place, and you've exposed less metal ( cylinder wall) during the hottest part of the burn. Theres a bunch more physics and equations to show why shorter injection is much more desirable (to make good efficient power) but Luke is the master here and he tells it best. Thank you Luke for the excellent videos, hope I can stop by someday and watch that mill craft some magic. Cheers!
Oh Yes.
Mad diesel is back.
Now that is a proper happy New Year.
👍🙌🙏👌
Excited to see the next video on this, hopefully going into injection duration of the larger elements and governor of the billet pump
Quality, informative educational video.... Laconic delivery
More please
So chuck more coal on the fire at 34 degrees duration with 7.7 mm elements gives lovely chunks o' power
Really helpful video especially the 34 degree of useful duration part
My 3.5 ltr OM603 turbo in the W140 chassis really was a powerhouse. 😂😂
I think I had more bugs hitting the back window than the windshield. 😢
But compared to a 200D w123 it must have been a rocket
Love it! Thanks for laying down some hard facts. One thing I wonder, will the 8.5mm elements deliver even more horsepower at 120cc?
I’m also wondering this!
It will be more efficient
Oh buddy, you've got my attention now, I love my intake, she's right. Happy new years to the whole dpuk crew.
excellent competent work and om 606 power
Very insightful and easy to understand video, thank you!
Thanks for making this video brother, this makes my brain happy
Genuinely interesting and well delivered. Thanks
Yeah!!!! Awesome ! There’s a part 2!!! 🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗
Free knowledge again, thanks boy! 😉
Thanks for the explain. That stock 110hp rating from the manual is without cat.
Love this moment !! 😂😂😂 19:15 love it… that British style lol NO! Your not going to get 200hp out of a stock pump 😅
Спасибо за лекцию!
That billet pump looks siiick...💪💪💪
Спасибо. Все по делу и понятно
Sorry you said it near the end!
I'd like to know how much extra fuel is useful, injected over useful duration?
For standard boost for example, at what point does extra fuel stop giving more power?
Tractor pullers make loads of smoke for example
Can you do a Dyno test and keep adding fuel and show when max power is achieved and when power gets less?
To get the max power do you expect smoke?
excellent competent work and om 606 power
17:30 my 190-D 4-cylinder OM-601 is supposed to have 75-horsepower according to the owners manual, so it makes less or maybe it kicks the ass of the 6-cylinder 0M-603
Alot of factory power figures are given from an engine dyno in a perfect environment.
Less transmission losses and less then perfect conditions means very very few cars make or exceed given factory power figures
The factory hp rating is probably tested at the crank. Because Mercury drivetrains with their composite parts are super sloppy and I could see losing 50 hp between the crank and the rear tires. Especially on an older vehicle, where those composite pieces are starting to parish.
Great vid appreciate the breakdown of all of it 🫡what’s your timeline on sending you a pump for rebuild these days ? Thanks
Thankyou for an informative video. What can you do with a Toyota 5L pump? What sort of power is possible?
I've got a 87 300d turbo and a 87 300sdl turbo both are bone stock and I wouldn't call them slow. I think they move along quite nicely. If these cars only put out 60 hp why would mercedes say the 300d is 127 hp and 300sdl 147.hp. I dont think this car would cruise at 80mph if it were only 60hp.
The 1600cc vw was rated at over 60hp.
Probably he means wheel HP
Please make a video dedicated to the billet pump and its advantages!
So you say that, basically, a stock 605 engine with stock edc system and 6mm pump cannot even get 250bhp? I think that is not right, because i have a w201 mercedes with a hy35 holset on it and it does 10.9s 100-200kmh with 1260kg of weight. Not dyno tested yet because i dont have a place in my contry where someone can do it, but i am sure that a 240hp car with that ammount of weight cannot do a sub 11s 100-200 time on dragy. Did not see it anywhere in the world.
So what i am thinking is that the 606 e300td for example can have a 335ish hp with all the good mods and stock pump, and 605 can have close to 290.
My car is still alive and running so i could send you videos.
🤣🤣🤣
Yes but high egt…
Great content man !
So I have a few questions. I'm starting my om606 build soon so I'm hunting parts locally. As far as the motor goes what's the stock one good for? What breaks first? How high can I rev the motor not being pump limited? How hard is it to get a manual pump to make 400hp and rev to let's say 7000rpm? Also the engine itself? Valve springs and good or is keepers and valves gonna be needed? What's the biggest bang for the buck hp on a om606 like a junkyard build with elements bigger turbo ECT? Sorry lots of questions I know 😂 I come from a building things to the moon background but I know every platform has sweet spots where it's relatively inexpensive vs the smiles and I'm wondering what that point is for these. Iv already bought a om606 long block so I'm fairly committed.
very nice explanation i got a question
whats the effect when using a stock injection pump with smaller injector nozzle tips
I like the math.
That is 30cc per cly per minute correct? Is a mw 617 pump in that general realm as well?
This is pump 🌽 at its finest. Curious of your thoughts on running waste motor oil and bad gas 90:10mixture? The international 7.3 idi engines seem to like them.
If you can’t afford diesel. Don’t drive a diesel. Waste motor oil ruins everything it touches. Especially the pump. Gas is for gas engines.
@@zakksrage that's the sort of institutionalised answer that is so predictable.
People do stuff like running waste oils because they are not controlled by BS.
Pretty sure that your 7.3 idi has a standyne pump. They like to have a good lift pump that will supply enough flow and pressure. Its not much of a pressure issue it's more of a flow issue. People put facet pumps on and they urinate directly into the wind. A nice gear pump like a Marco up2/oil can supply 3.3l per minute. You would need to run some sort of pressure regulation that returns back to the tank, generally this is as simple as a gate valve if you are doing it on a budget.
I have run engines on 100% wmo in the past. Being this greedy has often ended up with me replacing engines once a year 🤣.
If your going to blend your own fuel. Blend it before you filter it. Most of the crud will drop out on its own. I don't recommend using petrol. I used to get vapour lock when going full send with my vehicles. 50%blend of oil/diesel is the best way to run wmo.
I would also add that you should run a heat exchanger to thin your fuel down
The stanadyne pump on the idi lends itself to thicker and dirtier fuel, the pump on the om606 could run motor oil but you would want to refine it first.
@@zakksrageno one likes people like you
DO YOU MAKE CONVERSION PACKS TO FIT YOUR MOTOR ETC INTO VARIOUS TOYOTA UTES TO SUIT AUSTRALIAN DESIGN RULES .THE COST TO SUPPLY MOTOR AND KIT LANDED IN NSW ?? YOU HAVE A GREAT PRODUCT .I DID COVERSIONS MANY YEARS AGO BUT THAT WAS PETROL MOTORS INTO 4X4'S . TOP PRODUCT MATE.
So what do you get at 8.5mm when it’s fully pegged out? Kept thinking you were gunna say it towards the end but your blue balling us haha
Great vid!
You missed part of your explanation out!
You have a cc reading for the pumps but forgot to say it was cc per number of rotations, is it 100 rotations?
Because obviously it's not 30or 60cc per injection because you would need elements of over 25mm......I didn't work it out!
I'd imagine the longer duration in injection is a big contributor to heavy soot. Effectively the longer the duration of injection, the less pressure on the piston, reducing power as well as the fuel coming in to cool the combustion chamber leading to incomplete burn.
I'd imagine, shorter duration, bigger elements, more fuel within injection window and some boost is the best way to go.
Your partially correct, don’t mistake fuel cooling from the petrol world. In a diesel any extra fuel in the chamber = heat.
@@DieselPumpUK ahh.. thankyou.
Is there a way to rebuild a Mercedes 4 cylinder for Turbo service, and build a performance pump for it? Use case is for old short wheel base Jeeps with limited space in the engine compartment.
Hello, I built a patrol, how do you have an om606 engine, a 7.5mm plunger, an intercooler, an om603 water pump, a radiator, a big problem, it heats up very much when you start to blame the cylinder head, checked the ignition is OK
CAN YOU HELP ME WITH A GOVENOR FOR A OM617 US TYPE NOT ENGLISH VERSIN
Hey, and what about the pump mechanism for accounting for the injection time (practically how long the fuel takes to be squirted out of a prechamber and burn) when the engine rpm increases? If there is such a mechanism for advancing the injection according to the rpm in these pumps. Is it possible to lets say make a mechanical/edc OM605 pump that is able to deliver 400 engine hp all the way up to 6500 engine rpm? Or all it needs is only 8ish mm elements?
Wonderful thanks!! So interesting!!
I was wondering if people could help me,
I have a 1998 G wagon with an om606 engine but I wanted to get more power somewhere 220-250 PH how is this work possible,
Should I change the electronic IP with a mechanical IP, what changes should I make in the engine since I am a beginner.
Thanks for understanding guys
This is not true for a 603 turbo pump correct? Or are they both (603 na and 603 turbo)going to be the same maxed out just less on the NA pump stock?
The turbo 603 pump has a very low cc also no gain by using that one.
so if you can keep adding air to lean it out with the same fuel quantity would you be able to make more power?
Hey any chance you can do a explanation like this for the ve style pump (specific td42 Nissan) i have a 12mm upgraded pump and turbo making 170kw at the wheels (33" tires 4.1 ratio)
Would love to know what makes it tick.
hello, my english is not very good but i really liked this video.
have you thought or would you like to try injection with a programmable computer and large injectors?
it would be a lot of work on an engine but it would be interesting.
this would make it possible to do a lot of tests, the quantity injected, the pressure, the advances…
everything would be easily editable.
I could participate if you want
contact me if you want to talk about itand set up this test
Bye
By
What is peak injection pressure on the idi system with these pumps? And does injection pressure increase or decrease as rpm goes up?
Does peak injection pressure increase exponentially with injection pump output?
Thanks
Will these pumps "run away" like a ve pump when you give it to much on the make black smoke screw?
So my 250D had only 50Hp but still was able to coast at 150Km/h ??
I ask myself if there is the possibility to add alda to an om616 pump
Ok so I'm having a bit of a tuff time understanding all this but it seems that from what you have shown here that the kit I can buy claiming to get you as close to 300hp with out changing the pump elements is simply false.
hello I need to buy one of those at least 7.7 for my OM605 please can you help me with that I live in the United States
No wonder why the P7100 is so popular.
This is all for non turbo engine pumps? What about om603 turbo?
Hola como puedo comprar una para mi OM605 que me funcione mui vien 7.7 seria perferto me parese
That was my question from a week before 😁 I saw you arguing with one guy in the comments and by the way there ware people who believe him😃
Isn't cc cubic centimeters, and we should rather be talking about cubic millimeters?
😎👍
You ran the second pump twice as long as the first one so that would give you more cc for the second one. So the first one differently better than the second one.
Bro you either can't count or dont know how these testing rigs work.
Basically it injects the same quantity in less time, so, you can extract more cyl. Pressure in that same duration, mo powah bby 😂😂
They make 67hp LOL thats crazy
Are these mechanical fuel pumps?
Is it possible to increase the injection pressure for better atomization of the fuel? what would be the theoretical limit and still keep reliablity?
More pressure doesn’t mean more “atomization” past the point of being atomized. Pressure is just good for more fuel delivery per pop it valve open
@@zakksrage if you have smaller holes in the injectors you need higher pressure to deliver the same amount of fuel, and the smaller the holes the better the atomization. Would need new injectors aswell but I made the question more simple.
Bigger elements increase injection pressure.
@@V8Lenny i guess more fuel in the same amount of time would mean higher pressure, but by how much?
@@FrmerK20 hard to say but there is testbenches for unit injectors that measure injection pressurw.
My W210 606 with bone stock pump and T04E made 260hp and little over 500nm @1,55bar boost. Is that realistic or the dyno is not accurate?
Wheel or flywheel?
@@Klumpi84 more like the crank
My buddy has a quite similar setup and comparable results. So for me this is fine for flywheel.
this pumps are from na engines not the td ones
How much a 603 is
Линейка не правильная 🤷♂️, все бошевский насосы имеют ход рейки 21 мм где там 23 насчитали? 🤦♂️
👏👍🇹🇷
why do you say that you cannot get 200 horses, here is your video ua-cam.com/video/jJnTqOR_3bA/v-deo.html and here on the 5.5 pump 189 horses
No he did put 6mm in the pump as he says in the video
@@FreddyH11 in this video he says that you can't get 200 horses with 5.5 elements
Luke all I can tell you only
You are the most LEGITIMATE person experience with top knowledge who knows exactly how all this works better than anyone else ever existed I ever pass through him ,, you are a LEGEND… 💪🥇🫡
Cheers Matt
Hello and thank you for the detailed video. I have a 1987 300d with the om603 turbo . The motor has 165k miles and runs good. I would like to get a bit more power out of it but I live on a small retirement. So far I have rebuilt the turbo.
Rebuilt injectors with monarch parts. Put new glow plugs in and new lifters.
I regularly change oil and use quality filters. What would be your suggestions
For power gain on a tight budget and what do you charge. Also when are the injector prechambers supposed to be replaced. Some people say 100k and some say 200k. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Any Update, on the Black Diesel in the OM606? Like the Video you made with the veg. Oil?