Knife Knowledge: Stropping Knowledge, Diamond emulsion .5 µm comparison
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- Опубліковано 1 кві 2021
- We do a comparison of several of the top leaders of the industry. As you learn more about burr removal, you will begin to learn how important these products are. These are game changers. We are here to prove it. This is an in-depth video in which we test and prove how amazing these products are. This is a long video. We leave nothing out. Please use this information wisely. We have products from Ken Schwartz ( Nano Cloth and his diamond emulsion ), Gunny Juice from Scott Gunn, a diamond emulsion from Jende Industries, as well as a diamond paste from Kent Supply. We test the products on four knives made of super blue steel that were all sharpened by me on a 1K, 3K, 5K, and then finished with edge leading strokes on an 8K stone. You will see all the details in this video. The test results are in and they are amazing!
Gunny Juice
www.gritomatic.com/products/g...
Jende Poly DIamond Emulsions
jendeindustries.com/jende-pol...
Ken Schwartz Nano Cloth and Diamond emulsions
products can be purchased from Ken himself at
209-612-2790 or ksskss@earthlink.net
Kent Supply Diamond paste
kentsupplies.com/beading-and-...
kentsupplies.com/?subcats=Y&p... - Навчання та стиль
On that first 67 knife, if you roll the edge just lightly wiping on a dish towel, the first cut of almost anything, like maybe a roast, and it will be back at 134+. ... This is why I'm starting a Knives & Stones Anonymous group. Early warning signs are noticing your knives are dull, and searching out websites like this one. The first whetstone you buy will not be the last. Your first Japanese knife will only be your first Japanese knife. If you already have five stones and a strop, and five knives or more, you're in Stage II of kniestonism. If you have over 20 stones and 20 knives, please, seek help. Recovery is still possible. (I know: I have been there and I am now a recovering kniestonic! I have gone three weeks without buying a new knife or stone!) I will develop a 12-stone program for you to work with. If you have started a website like this one, I'm sorry, but you're beyond help and thoughts of possible recovery will likely only make things worse, so forget about it. Just sell some off, and try to live out your life as best you can. If you're a knife and/or stone manufacturer, just try to behave normally even though you know you are not, and adopt a religion if you haven't already. Love and tranquility to all.
I agree that I think I have a sickness and I will admit it. I'm starting to slow down a little bit. It did seem like the towel was able to roll the edge so easily. We're talking something that's half the thickness of a human hair. I don't really know how sharp we're supposed to get it but it's pretty funny! It was a funny test and amazing! Rest in peace Ken Schwartz
From a cheap $10 sharpening stone ended up with a Tormek 800 and now a TSProf Kadet pro and 20 different diamond stones and just bought the $500 PD Tools Expert stone set. I need an intervention. 😂
Thank You for spending all the time and energy to create one of the best ever unbiased videos. Bravo!!
The results speak for themselves.
Genuinely unbiased, I love it. More science, not $©ien©€... Thanks! I know carriers and dilution percentages can both have effects, and ypu answered some questions I had between some of these
Thank you for creating and posting this video. You're the man.
Thank you so much. That was very kind of you. Sorry it took so long to get back to you. We have more to come
While I rarely sharpen kitchen cutlery and our styles are vastly different, I find so much useful information that translates universally in your videos. Thank you, sir, for the content.
Glad it was helpful! It was very nice of you to take the time to say that. I really do appreciate it. God bless you and thank you for the support.
I know kitchen knives and pocket knives differ in how their respective communities sharpen. Do you ever use regular diamond plates or arkansas stones? Those are what I use 98% of the time.
@@sharpwhits0167 I am anxious to purchase the Arkansas stones. The diamond plates Are able to do everything so I do like using them. For some reason in my head I keep thinking that they’re going to be too aggressive even though they’re the same great. I just think of them as being so hard that they’re going to be more aggressive but it doesn’t make sense to think that way
I really like your productions. They show everything from start to finish. I hope you will achieve 1K soon ;)
We appreciate you being here! You’ve been a fan and you have no clue how much that kind of support means to us.
@@nadm I am just a beginner amateur. I learn a lot from you. Grow big, I will watch you and I will also grow ;)
Great video, and thanks for the hard work so we can benefit!
Thank you for finding the channel and your support. Ken Schwartz was very happy with the scientific approach we took. He was happy with his results. Rest in peace, Ken Schwartz
What an amazing video. This was very helpful. Thank you.
Ken Schwartz was extremely happy with the detail we went through to do the scientific research
Love that you were looking to hit 1000 subscribers at the time of this video…. Bravo, and well deserved. 🤘
Thank you and yes, that was a while ago. Unfortunately, Ken is no longer with us. He was a big fan of that episode and he said we did it right. Thank you for staying with us.
This is a awesome video. I won a rough strop of Jende plus their diamond emulsion. Very helpful.
NICE!!!!
Cool video. It's really impressive how big the difference in sharpness score is! I like my strop.
And I like mine! Have a blessed day. Thank you for watching the channel. I'm going to bleach out this coming weekend. I'll be putting out a lot of videos from the event.
Well, I found it entertaining and informative. Many things affect the outcome; the pressure you use, the actual paste, the angle of attack, as it were. Excellent video, in my humble opinion.
You are very modest and honest. Please, do not depreciate what you're doing. Very informative and quite helpful to one trying to improve my results. You demonstrate the value of a rigid strop over a hanging strop as well as the abrasive contribution.
Thank you. We had Ken Schwartz help us with making sure the science was accurate. He was proud of the test. This was a long time ago and we definitely got more confident. We also enjoy bringing you the stuff. I appreciate you going back to watching the old videos
Very well done. Some great information. I may have to look into diamonds soon as all i have used is green compound.
As you can see, world of difference. But I’m glad you are using some type of compound
Nice job on this video. It's the first time seeing one of your endeavors but certainly won't be the last.
Thank you. Go back and watched a lot of the other videos. There's a lot to learn and see. Please tell a friend. We are trying to get 1000 subscribers. We are giving away a knife. Make sure your subscription is listed as public and not private. Publicly listed subscribers are all eligible to win the knife. Don't forget we have an Instagram and Facebook page to follow.
In my kitchen I keep a basswood paint stir stick loaded with 1 micron diamond paste. It seems to work best for me taking this stick to the knife like a file, instead of the other way round. Just a few strokes makes a noticeable difference after a 4 or 8k stone. I originally got the paste from KBC tools.
Nice!! You Know!
The key is a piece of wood soft enough to load up with paste, but not so soft as to deform. The KBC paste is in an oil base, so I wrap it up with Saran Wrap when not in use. I’ve had the little syringe of paste for about 10 years now and still have lots left. Pretty economical if you think about it. But yeah, diamonds work phenomenally well.
@@trappenweisseguy27 Great tips! Awesome! Now we've got to get everybody else on the train.
Nice!
It also works really well for using pocket sharpeners. You can see and adjust your angle much much more precisely than just holding the stone to the knife or taking the knife to a flat stone.
Love the video !!
Glad you liked it!!
Long video? I enjoyed every minute. VERY informative and super interesting! I can't help but wonder, what difference it would make if you repeated the test after the emulsions had dried. Greg, we have to have a part two! lol But seriously, most people will be using the strops dry. Which is better, wet or dry? We have to know. May we please have a part two? It doesn't need to be tested on every knife. Just one knife on dry media. Please sir.
So all of them had dried. The last one was the one that probably needed an extra day because it was a paste. Technically, it wasn’t even meant for knives. It was meant for polishing jewelry. Just to be clear, all of them had dried on the material that they were placed on before I use them
Couldn't help laughing when you called your wife in. Magic acts: "And now my lovely assistant will get into the basket, and I will cut the basket in half!" Added: You need drum roll and heart-beat sound! + With diamond spray emulsions it's critical to really shake them a lot, hard, just like Greg did. And test the pump spray once or twice.
We both know that she's the real boss. She just lets me think I'm in charge! We're really starting to get comfortable. That video was shot so long ago but I think we're starting to loosen up
"my wife is now making the decision" As any good husband realizes lolz
@@taylorhickman84 --- Not all of them, but sometimes women come up with amazingly practical observations and solutions that seem to escape some men. E.g. "Sitting in a chair in front of a computer all day is not exercising."
Thank you Ms. NDM!!!!
She appreciates that
Your doing a great job.Its unrelated how the cloth wipe retracted sharpness.wild...
I am just getting into knife sharpening and I'm trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible. This video was fantastic from this perspective and was really enjoyable to watch. The problem I'm now trying to work through is that I need a better way to dry my knives. After watching this, using a towel day after day will really take the edge off of a knife. Another interesting experiment would have been to sharpen a knife using the method in the video. Then, cut carrots on a cutting board, wash the knife, dry the knife with a towel, and then retest. Continue to cut, wash, dry and retest to see how long before the knife dulls. Great video, from a new subscriber.
I have a video in the playlist called a Day in the life of a knife. Find that and watch it. You'll see that we took a brand new knife and had everyone in the family use it for three months. We've been showed how much it worn down. We also showed how to restore it rapidly.
@@nadm Thank you for your reply. I will definitely watch that video. Great content. I'm loving the channel.
Well I took the plunge and bought a 3x8 Jende nanocloth strop and some of their .5 micron emulsion. Man that really finishes the edge nicely. It completely pulls a whole stone out of my rotation and my weekly touch ups. I am seriously questioning my need for my Shobu and my Nakayama. I can now touch up or finish with my softer Hideriyama (that is my all time favorite feeling natural stone) then hit the Jende and the edge turns at least as good on both my knives and straight razor, as it did with the harder natural finishers.
So… Natural stones are definitely awesome for sharpening. They do something a little different. I don't think they're necessary. I think there's a love affair with something from the earth. I do think that they give their own thing. The grit is made up of natural sand that has been compressed overtime. So it's automatically going to be a bit uneven and give you some toothiness. I love mine and I'm definitely so happy that I have them. I do think that you can achieve what you want without them. I think they're just two different things. I know that they're very special when it comes to polishing. You can go all synthetic or you can go all natural. It comes down to choice but if you want to sharpen and polish I think you're doing better on the natural stones. You still have the get the right stones. No matter what!
V-E-R-Y comprehensive review. I don't know if you are ocd but it doesn't hurt if you want to know the best and go way out of your way to show it to us. Thank you.
Thank you! Ken Schwartz called us personally and we spoke at length on how he wanted it done. He said he was very happy with the end result. I wanted to make all of the manufacturers happy. I appreciate the fact that you appreciate this video!
@@nadm I've been sharpening knives for years and used to think razor sharp was the pinnacle. Experience has shown there are also different levels of razor sharp.
In practice there is "good enough" but when I know it could be a little better... ocd kicks in.
Great video. Thanks
Thank you
@@nadm
So finally all doing a good job , and all near to the price , as your experience which the best
I have messed around with about every emulsion, compound, paste out there. What I've ended up with is none of the above. A quality leather strop with no diamond gives me the best result.
I agree that you can get amazing results without it but it's incredible what you can do with it.
Just found your channel this afternoon & am enjoying watching your videos! I have a small jar of Black Diamond stropping compound from Hand American (1.4 micron) that dried up & is in a hardened clump in the bottom. Is there a solvent that I can add to make it useable again??
I will get in touch with the manufacturer and find out for you. Please give me a day
I think you did a superb job of keeping the testing as consistent as possible. Looks like Jende is making nanocloth strops that will fit my tsprof sharpener.
Comparing nanocloth to leather, clearly one is superior in sharpness, but I wonder if one excells in edge retention?
The problem is that Ken Schwartz died. So his particular cloth is no longer being manufactured. He was very nice and very happy with the test we did on his product. He ended up using this video in his webpages. It’s a great loss. Rest in peace Ken Schwartz
Which micron nano cloth from Ken Schwartz were you using? Those results were bad ass. Id like to try the same if I could. Really enjoy the channel/video it's very cool. Those numbers are incredible.
So Ken Schwartz only made one cloth. The purpose of the cloth was to have zero abrasive contribution. He has since passed away. He was the only manufacturer of his cloth. Scott Gunn is made something called gunny cloth. I have some but I haven't opened it. We will get into that in a video coming up. I wish Ken was still with us. Yes, the numbers were incredible.
I am going to apply what I've learned to my razor.
Please come back and share what you've learned
Another great video thanks. How do you store your strops after they’re loaded?
I have a dry container but I do just put them on top of each other one by one. I don’t have any special way. Let me know if you have something that you recommend
@@nadm I use Ziploc storage bags, just wondering if there’s anything better.
Thanks for the work you put into the testing! I normally finish my knives with plain smooth leather after stropping with Gunny Juice. I wonder if that will hurt or help the sharpness.
I was wondering the same thing. I haven't done a finish like that. I used to do it that way. I think the abrasive on the leather is stronger than .5 µm. So it would depend on which micron diamond emulsion you're using. If you're using a 5 µm or 3 µm then you're probably fine but if you're using 8.5 µm or .25 µm Then you're probably going backwards
No way you've improved on a plain leather surface if you used emulsion first. The diamond compounds are huge game changers! Use them!
Just won some Gunny juice and I'm super excited to try it out on some tool steels like maxamet and rex!
Hell yes! Let us know how you love it! God bless and good luck
How did you get on bro? Is it a really toothy and bitey edge?
@@Firefoxtony it's still got bite and not super toothy though you should look up gunny juice on youtube
@@vindice5849 I have thanks dude. How does it compare to other compounds? I'm not really interested if I have a polish or not, just as long as it has a good bit of bite and that it can whittle hair I'm happy.
Hello, Greg not sure if you have covered the question I'm going to ask. I have 40+ years of sharpening my pocket, hunting, kitchen knives, and am a firm believer in stropping but new to these emulsions. Do you typically finish up on an unloaded strop or do you finish up with the last micon emulsion in your progression on your knives? I,m now subscribed and checking out some more of your content Thanks.
Thanks for your comment. If you have not read the book by knife grinders that I highly recommend it. I have some other videos for you to check out. What you end up doing has a lot to with the hardness of the steel that you're using. 61 and above will get done on leather with diamond emulsion to cut away any loose material. You can keep going down in micron. If it's softer steel, then you want to use leather by itself, typically a hanging strop. Do you need to increase the angle by .4° and up to 2°. Meaning that if you sharpen at 15° then you will strop on leather at 15.4° and up to 17° and then you'll still go on a flat bench strop afterwards with diamond emulsion.
@@nadm Thanks and I will definitely read that book. Thanks for the reply.
Great information here! A lot of work went into this video. Thank you. I am intrigued by the nano cloth. What do you think the differences are between Kens nano cloth vs the Jende? Have tried to compare the two. I wish Kens version was available on a website.
Ken was very nice. We were on the phone a lot together. He was very happy with the outcome of the test. He has a student in the Massachusetts area that wrote me and told me that Ken was very impressed with the science behind what we did in this video. We will miss him. Ken passed away last September. His wife died just previously to that. He was a really nice guy and he was very in love with his wife. He was very upset with Jende industries. They had used his product for a while and then they made a product similar and they called it nano cloth ultra. Then they dropped the ultra. Then they were using the same name. He was very upset with them. He did not like their product. You are told that if you press too hard into the product that it will scratch your night. There is a honeycomb shape below the cloth. It supports the cloth to allow it to absorb moisture. If you press too hard he will press down on the honeycomb and it will scratch your knife. Scott Gunn is making his own version called gunny cloth. It's not available yet but it will be one day
@@nadm I am sorry to hear this terrible news. The broken heart is very hard to mend. Perhaps an update in the description stating that fact might be helpful to Ken and his legacy. Thank you for the clarification.
@@billybastar4022 Do you know what, thank you for that little bit. It wasn’t something that was on my mind. I’ll definitely have to go back and edit that when I have a chance this weekend. I appreciate the suggestion. God bless
Had wondered about "rolling ' the apex on a hanging strop. Turns out that I was. It became visible under a magnifying glass. Also found the start of a crack. Following work on the stones (400, 4000,8000,12000), I used a paddle strop with chromium oxide to finish. Inspecting again, crack was gone (thankfully) and angle was true to the apex. I ordered another mounted strop, aluminum plate this time, and some 1um diamond paste. I also found an inexpensive hand held microscope for my computer online. Should make inspection easier for these old eyes. Thanks for your instructive video. BTW, the razor was sharper than ever. Hoping I can achieve double edge blade sharpness eventually.
Nice! Great job. I'm glad you like the video. Sorry it took a while to get back to you. Life is busy in the holiday season. God bless and thank you for your support. That sounds like amazing stuff you were doing. That's awesome.
I've got the Ken Schwarz 2 and 1 micron and the jende 0.5, 0.25 and 0.1 micron. Thanks for the video
You know Ken passed away on 9-11. You can no longer get the nano cloth. Or anything else that he made!
@@nadm yeah... I know... It's very very sad. I could buy these two emulsions from a retailer in brazil. But sadly I won't be able to buy the nano cloth. Maybe I can find something similar from jende. But i will probably just continue using the leather
@@erickzhou5314 no! You're really gonna wanna try the new cloth that got presented this weekend at the Blade show. Scott Gunn from gunny juice came out with his version. He's been working on for a long time. It's going to be available soon. He's going to send me samples soon for me to get that video out to you. I do not have a timeframe.
@@nadm oh!! That's nice!!!
Where have u been these last ten years!!!! I love these types of vids. We are all human and have human tendencies
Yes we do! Yes we do
@@nadm what are your opinions about diamond bonded stones like veneave and others. Also have u ever tried white bark river compound with spray diamonds on top. From what I understand the chormomiun oxide or AL oxide will he'll the carbines poke out while the diamonds actually remove metal.
So yeah diamonds will actually cut the car bites. Ceramic and CBN will also help you cut but diamonds are the best.
@@nadm have u ever tried nano hone stones??? They are my favorite by far!!!! Hap is a legend his passion for sharpening and cutlery is second to none! I love everything he represents. Hey if u wanna try them out let me know???!!! I have a few! Also I was talking about laying down white compound then spraying the same leather with diamond spray after. Have u ever experimented with that combo before?
I actually want to and I have money invested in some other new stones to put out but it’s on my list of things to acquire and test
ahhh nice i have a full set of jende strops and diamond emulsions, from 1 micron to 0.025 microns, would you say you think jende is better than gunny juice? because ive done a lot of reading mostly from reddit saying they like gunny juice more. also weirdly even after using 0.025 micron jende strop compound, there's still very barely visible scratch marks even with perfect sharpenning
I would not say it’s better. Gunny juice is clearly better. We did a test on the show. There’s a different video in our lineup which shows you a test done on both of them as well as Ken Schwartz product before he died. Ken Schwartz worked with me for three months to make sure that the scientific test was done accurately. He was very proud of how we did the test and he was happy with the results. The results were very clear that the Gunny juice product was the clear winner.
loved the video and the effort. i find only one thing disturbing.....tha scale shouldn't be moved around😂
by the way i'm going to buy some diamond emulsion thanks to you ahahah
after a 10k stone, which diamond grit would you recommend? at now i'm finishing on bare leather
thnx
So I think what was going on was that the magnetic fulcrum was sitting on part of the pressure point. You are correct that's never happened before. I think I had it a little too close. I've since used it and haven't had that problem. I had used it many times and never had that problem. If you ever read knife grinders book then you'll know why a difference diamond emulsion can make I have always used regular leather by itself and I've definitely seen a difference in the performance.
I have never used diamond emulsions. I always use just solid compound paste but i have considered trying gunny juice.
Worth a try. But I get it. If you're getting good results, then I understand.
Do you have a butterscotch or peppermint?😂 Thanks for sharing this, very informative
Hi gregg, I have different kind of question this time and it's not knife related questions 😁. What Camera are you using to take this video?? The main camera and lighting set up, do you use soft box or something else? Thank you
So, my wife and I keep messing around. Right now we're just not happy. We have LED lights and we have the overhead lights in the kitchen as well as the lights behind us that hang over the bar. We use our iPhones. We had purchased a GoPro and it is horrible. It is made for outdoor not indoor. We have changed every setting. Now we are unscrewing lights above because there's too much yellow. I keep having to do stuff in post to change my skin tone. This time on this weeks episode we had all of the house lights off and it passed too many shadows. A long time ago we didn't even have any lights we just had the house lights. We keep trying to adjust. We're gonna get it one day! We want to buy some expensive DSLR or mirrorless Digital cameras. Nothing is cheap! We have a lot going on right now with the money. My physical therapy is $84 a visit and I have 34 of them. We're doing the best we can.
@@nadm you make a great video on you channel. Hope to see the channel grow and sharing more interesting stuff.
@@Reza-nz2re so, we keep trying. Other people are competing with us. They’re throwing topics out there. Right now we have enough new knives to put out to und boxing is a month and one whetstone war and one sharpening tip. If we can find someone to interview then we do that. We just got permission from Kevin Kent of Knifewear to be able to use some of his footage in our video. That was very nice of him! We got a tormek eight and we’re going to be doing some tips on that and then will do some precision guided stuff whenever we get into that. We’re going to be showing the different levels of sharpness Addie stone. We’re also going to show the different levels of sharpness at each type of steel. So we have constant for a long time and we have to try to stay alive for a couple of years. We’re really not making any money at this right now. It’s a year and a half an hour total I think is around $1500 and we definitely have spent more than that. We’re in it for the long-haul. Just putting out one a week. It’s become a habit. We’ve been keeping it kind of the mom and Pop feel because we’re just real people like everybody else. We just appreciate you guys showing up every week.
You have a great and supportive wife, god bless her
Thank you for that. Yes I do. May God bless you!
On your stone battle videos would be awsome if you tried a venev with the 100% concentration diamonds against the chosera diamond water stones
It’s on the list. It’s something I want to do. Nobody’s giving these things away for free. It would be a purchase in the future but it is definitely desired.
thanks for the video, important question, where did you get that kitchen/tea towel?
So, I showed my wife the video because we have the same towel up right now at this moment. She does not remember where she got it. It could’ve been TJ Maxx. We’ve had it for a long time.
@@nadm okay buddy, thanks!
I know it's easy to forget, but woulda liked it if you guys ...
Could provide a list (written) to see // compare and video markers.
I'm pretty sure we had the list in a screenshot in the video. I need to apologize for taking so long. I've had a surgery on my knee and some other things going on. We've had the court case for my car accident. We had to deal with that as well. We've also had some other major things happening personally. Deaths in the family and lots of arrangements to be made. Also, I'll let you know that I will be having another major surgery in June and will not be making it to the Blade show. I will be out of work for two weeks because I'm having all the extra skin cut off of my body. We do apologize for an interruption of videos if it were to happen. Will try to shoot some head for you guys so we can fill the space. That being said, thank you for checking out the show. Thank you for your support and your comment.
If you have to pick only one, which size micron would you choose? Great video
.5 µm
Thank you and thank you for your support!
@@nadm thank you. I never get a Dull moment because of you.
@@dentistjk You’re very kind.
Next time put a dot with a sharpie on the blade and try to test as close to the same spot on each knife when using the BESS Tester because you will get different scores on different parts of the knife or maybe do a tip reading middle and end area test of each knife and take the average of them.
That is one of the reasons why we tell people that the tester is a tool but not the standard. Even if you use a sharpie then you're still only trying to hit like a hairs width of a spot on the blade and it's impossible to know if you did that exactly. We did multiple places on the blade and you different parts of the blade. We can only give you the information we have. We are not NASA nor do we have their budget. Ken Schwartz went to a great expense to make sure that the test went well. He wrote me that he was very happy and before he died he was using this video on his own webpage. He was a very strict person and we had talked for many hours about the rules of this test before we used his product. Everyone was happy with their results. I wish I had the budget to have an incredibly large microscope so that we could do the test the way you want.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to sound critical I have the same tester and just felt that an average of three spots as close to the same area as possible would be a better representation of the overall sharpness and potential improvement over a single spot test. I enjoyed it and have been using and even experimenting with making my own Diamond sprays as I know the expense you put out to do this test wasn’t cheap.
@@ALXSHARPEN it’s OK. I don’t mind having intelligent discussions. As long as we are even keeled people, then you and I can get to i’m understanding. I think we want the same thing. I don’t want to sway anyone. All of the results were spontaneous and you can see our reactions. Like I said, all the manufactures were very happy with the test. I think you would have to be NASA. I literally think you would have to have like a mark specifically at some microscopic levels you could test the same thing several times. I wish I had more money and was able to do some stuff. All I can do is put some available information out there. You and I both know that really you have to actually have the same amount of pressure. I don’t know if you’ve seen Hans’s channel but he has made a device that does the pressing for you so you have an even amount of pressure every time at a certain place. We’re always getting better and again that cost money that I currently don’t have. We’re working on it. Thanks for supporting the channel. And thanks for giving us ideas to make us better. I know that you want great information and you want us all to be better. I can’t be mad at you for that. God bless.
i think I have seen that video I have tried to think of a way to do that cut test with regulated pressure so it’s the same but so far I haven’t come up with one. It would be cool to have something the blade went into and very slowly pushed through with the exact same pressure each test. In general the BESS tester is a great tool even if scientists can probably find ways it may not be the perfect test. It has help me mostly in knowing if a knife has been honed or stropped enough.
@@ALXSHARPEN ua-cam.com/video/tc4XHZ8xTzo/v-deo.html
Great video!!! I'm not from USA, what is nono cloth?
So nano cloth is a material that was pioneered by a man named Ken Schwartz. The concept is that the material that you apply the diamond emulsion to my have its on abrasive contribution. So I imagine you're putting the diamond emulsion on sandpaper. Now you would have two different abrasives. Ken believes that leather has its own level of abrasive quality. You really would like a material to be without any type of abrasive quality and so that when you put on the diamond emotion, you only get the embrace of you applied. The material was pioneered and patented by Ken. Jende industries used to carry it on their website. Then they started making their own version. They are not comparable. Ken was very upset with the company because they decided to try to copy cat and then called their product the same name. They used to have separate names and then they dropped a separate name so they could try to pretend to be the same product as Ken. He and I spoke on the phone about this topic. Scott Gunn from Gunny juice is working on and improved version. As I am typing this to you, we believe that Ken Schwartz might have passed away. No one is able to get in contact with him. His wife died not too long ago and we believe he has joined her. You could only get the material from him and the last year. We're not sure about its availability anymore. Please look out for the one coming up from Scott Gunn..
Have you ever tried stropping over a scale ? if so how much lbs/grams are you using ?
It's funny you say that because I've done that with my kids but I've never done it on video. I'll have to do it.
Love your vids. Been watching since u made an anouncment on i beleve a facebook group that u where gona be making a tube channel. Im about to upgrade some of my tojiro and yaxell vg10 knives to AS my first will be a moritaka 170mm bunka. I also have a kitayama 8000 coming to go with my naniwa chosera 400 and 3000. From a prep/cook/kitchen perspective i know stroping will still make a difference but will i notice going to the extreme with dimond pastes and special strop materials in real world food cutting? Over say a horse or buffolo hide bare strop.
You do not need to buy any type of diamond paste right off the bat. You are going to be incredible if your technique is incredible and if you’ve got the stuff that you’re talking about. You’ve seen me use the knives in my whetstone wars and then me just doing them on a 2000 grit stone and how incredibly sharp I get them before I even put them on leather. In your job you’re probably gonna do great using this with a toothier edge. When you’re ready and bored to spend the money on something else that I think that’s where you were going to go is the .5 µm diamond emulsion by Scott Gunn called gunny juice.
You do not need to buy any type of diamond paste right off the bat. You are going to be incredible if your technique is incredible and if you’ve got the stuff that you’re talking about. You’ve seen me use the knives in my whetstone wars and then me just doing them on a 2000 grit stone and how incredibly sharp I get them before I even put them on leather. In your job you’re probably gonna do great using this with a toothier edge. When you’re ready and bored to spend the money on something else that I think that’s where you were going to go is the .5 µm diamond emulsion by Scott Gunn called gunny juice.
We need all this done with 4 of the exact same knife, same leather strop, and wood strop, glass strop, and knifes need to be sharpened on a perfect angle sharpening system.
And if I ever had the money to buy or I could get a sponsor to send me four of the same exact knife than that would be amazing and that's why I tried to use the same steel, but since no one's paying me any money, and definitely we were not getting paid by Google at the time. We have spent $60,000 on this show and we have only gotten back 5000 over the life of this chann. Ken Schwartz himself was very happy with the results and the scientific measure. We could always do things better, but scientist at NASA said they couldn't be bothered. I need to apologize for taking so long. I've had a surgery on my knee and some other things going on. We've had the court case for my car accident. We had to deal with that as well. We've also had some other major things happening personally. Deaths in the family and lots of arrangements to be made. Also, I'll let you know that I will be having another major surgery in June and will not be making it to the Blade show. I will be out of work for two weeks because I'm having all the extra skin cut off of my body. We do apologize for an interruption of videos if it were to happen. Will try to shoot some head for you guys so we can fill the space. That being said, thank you for checking out the show. Thank you for your support and your comment.
i would suggest that you load the test strip off the scale ... pushing down on the scale with that much hand force may effect the accuracy of the scales strain gauge ... other than that great test ...
What really made me excited was the fact that Ken Schwartz called me specifically to tell me how much she enjoyed the test and that it was done properly. He talk to me for months to make sure that we had all the parameters properly.
If you like ultra fine, high polish edge I recommend you to check out the article on Science of Sharp about strops.
He took images with electron microscope using several different abrasives and different strop materials.
Results are very surprising. I think sharpness is dropping with the towel because it's breaking a foil edge.
Maybe with hanging Denim strop you would get better result. Using it the edge can go to 0.1 micron without any foil edge. That's enough for hair whittling.
There's a different video in that series you should check out. The science also comes from the book on deburring from knife grinders. The difference in the foil edge/wire edge really has more to do with the hardness of the blade. There's a lot of information about sharpening/stropping angle being the same if the hardness is 61 and above. If it's softer then you have to increase the stropping angle slightly. I think he would definitely enjoy the video
@@nadm I always like to watch about sharpening. Your channel is really good, probably I'll watch most of your videos about that. What is the name of the video you are recommending?
19:20 reminds me of re4 regenerator
Big question, if anyone can answer .... Do knives somehow magically gravitate towards 300 Bess, which is what I hear European style manufacturers ship them at? I mean, if Greg is worried about losing sharpness by wiping on a towel, what does hand washing with a sponge and drying, do? How long will a knife hold 300 Bess, compared to 100? Are we competing for sharpness just for fun, or just for the satisfaction of that first slice through a bell pepper (like slicing air, almost), or is there something more enduring? I do not have enough experience with all this to know.
So what happened was my wife and I in this video you can see that we have an edge that is 1/2 to a quarter of the thickness of a human hair. We did some of the test by wiping it and we noticed that we either bet the foil edge with the towel or that late to go out on the edge and we wanted to see how sharp we can get it. We also wanted to see if the towel made a difference and it clearly did. I don't believe the nose will get dollar sitting in the drawer. But I do believe every time you run something across it you are taking the opportunity to dull the edge.
@@nadm ----- Thank you for taking time to reply. How sharp is your favorite knife after a few days of use?
I'm wondering if a good 20 degree edge on a European HRC 58 would be a durable 140 - 200 Bess. I'm finding that folks don't want a sharp knife, they want one that's usable. Twice now I've been asked to not sharpen knives "too" sharp (lol). So I got them below 200 with 17 degree microbevels, then dragged the edge over a 10K stone to leave them around 300. Butchers use a steel maybe 80+ times a day (I don't know) on their Victorinox, and can slice an entire side of beef, trim "tomahawk" steaks, etc.. (Also, when someone says they want a knife sharpened, usually they mean "repair chips".)
I've always wondered why strop leather is so thick. Wouldn't very thin be better ?
I don't really think that's gonna matter. I think it's gonna matter the hardness and the type of leather. You don't want it to be too soft because then you'll roll the edge
Clapping now for her. Thanks Mrs. NADM.
I will be delighted to let her know and she will be thrilled to have been given the compliment. Thank you for her recognition. We are a team
Maybe someone can answer me. I have dmt emulsion and some cbn emulsions, both I went a few years without using(took a break from sharpening to that level) and they're dried out. Does anyone know what they're suspended in? Is it just water? Saline? Something all together?
Each one is different. Each manufacturer uses a different solution.
@@nadm one is the dmt brand and the other is I believe branded as jende cbn
@@Surago I am unfamiliar with what they use. It's not listed on the website that I've seen. Gender industries does not typically list their ingredients
@@nadm thank you for replying! I'll email them myself and see what I can find out
@@Surago I had been on the phone with the guy from Jende industries. He's nice enough. But when you're on the website it does not get into all of the specifics.
Which one was your favourite out of all of them?
Gunny juice is just proved to be the best. Ken doesn't make it anymore because he passed away. The others are right there. They're great. But one is better than the rest.
@@nadm thanks Greg! Glad to hear that. I bought gunny juice 0.5 micron. There’s so many out there to choose from, and I’m glad I chose gunny juice
It also depends on the leather, have you compared cow flesh side to kangaroo hair side? I think hair side on a female grey oil tanned roo would be far superior in performance.
Interesting results, and now I am looking up gunny juice...grr
So you’re gonna not wanna use kangaroo tail. Kangaroo tell is great when you use it by itself. You should put no compound on that at all. The course side is amazing especially for the knives with a 60 hardness and below. The hanging strap is awesome for increasing the strapping angle. I like to use the rough side and then the smoother side. I have two different kangaroo tail and I absolutely love them. Whatever you’re finishing and putting the diamond emulsion on leather, the leather has its own contribution. Typically the leather has a greater abrasive quality than the diamonds you’re using. Nano cloth by Ken Schwartz had turned out to be the best option. Ken has since passed away. I think you can only buy it from Ken. I’m very fortunate to have four of them. Scott Gunn is trying to make an improvement. He has been working on the cloth and trying to get it out there. The Jende industries product is a Nano Cloth that has a honeycomb suspended below the surface. If you press to hard and then it will give a contribution and scratch your knife. These diamond emotions work extremely good I Nano Cloth. You need some type of material to not give an abrasive contribution. If you don’t have nano cloth then yes the quality of the leather will matter. You do not want to have any type of wax on the leather because it will impede the soaking up into the leather
@@nadm I have a question since you're obviously awake and available...
I just ordered 3 suehiro 10,15 and 20k in edge pro sizes, should be here in a couple of weeks, And I have some aliexpress diamond stones on the way, 120-3000 grit, 3000 probably means more like 1000.
It's for a range of steels from vg10 to zdp...what middle of the road one or two or maybe even three stones would you recommend looking up thats relatively cheap, hard wearing and give good feed back to cover the difference between these two sets of stones.
I mean I can always use wet and dry and have done for some time and I have some other stones floating around too but nothing really special...
Whats your thoughts?
I have been looking at various stones for a few weeks now and it's all kinda confusing to be honest but I didn't like the reviews on the shapton for knives and other types of baldes and finally after touching up my katana there on a very old and broken blue chosera (5k?) (8K?) can't remember. And I really just wanna push my edges to the next level.
Yes, I agree with the diamond stones that you’ll have the most versatility. If they are electroplated then they are already level and they will not dish. I’m about to do a movie on these in two weeks. Unfortunately, you do need to finish with something a little higher. I’m afraid if you go too soft that it’ll literally be too soft. My first instinct was Morihei. I don’t know if it’ll be too soft. I know that the Naniwa is just amazing. They’re softer than your diamond stones but hard enough to help you still polish the edge. The Morihei 9000 grit is amazing and you have everything above it. I would tell you the Morihei 9000 and the Kitayama 8k and or the Irashiyama 6k. Suehiro is amazing. I don’t know what you consider cheap. You’ve already spent so much money. I think you buy these brands and save your pennies to get the best and you won’t have to worry for a while.
@@nadm Well agreed cheap is relative, this is the most I have ever spent on sharpening kit at any one time, I can get near hht3-4 on most things but i have always been getting by with not so nice things, fortunately for timing I have some excess money as I started offering sharpening services last week on facebook and my first customer wants a katana touch up, which Is why I had mine out to practice hybrid polishing a bit, so he has paid for half of the suehiros.
I hadn't even heard of the Morihei, I think...or is that the green brick?
I had been looking at kitayamas but wasn't sure and irashiyama also hadn't heard off...
If you have reviewed them I missed them, I have only found your channel this week but like it, the whetstone wars is a good series, still haven't gotten through all of them though. Will go do some searching. Thank you
ua-cam.com/video/8Qo9koKEWwg/v-deo.html
Me seeing the emulsion on that paper towel: I could have stropped some knives with that 😂
I understand but all of this was for science.
Why add a needle to the syringe?
I take it that all of these products are just diamond abrasive suspended in oil and wax emoltion?
So all of them are suspended differently, and it's up to the manufacture I would not say that wax is in any of them unless it's a paste. The one that Scott uses is more like I don't even know how to describe it. It comes out like mercury. He has it deionized so the diamonds push apartAs if they're polarity is opposing each other. It helps to keep them from clumping. I'm not familiar with the other brands as far as what they are suspended in. Some do you use oil it takes forever to dry. I'm definitely not a fan of oil.
Do you strop on the smooth side or the ruff side
Actually, both! I start on the rough. You do it to pull any big loose material off. Then you refined it with the smooth side.
@@nadm
Thank you for replying 🤙
FYI- Kens email was blocked from server. Any reason that might have happened?
He died! Rest in peace Ken!
Could it be that we just need to strop more?
You could just do that, but remember that the material you're using has an abrasive contribution. If you do it too much and if you do it wrong, you can roll the edge.
Was the microphone placed directly in your nostril?😂
Nice test though!
Hello what are you doing with your mouth when rubbing the emulsion on the cloth the first time. Your mouth is moving very strangely as you rub the emulsion on are you spitting on the cloth for some reason as you apply it because that could impact the outcome as well.
Facial tics are something he will have. It was possibly Tourette's and it turned out. There was a medicine on the market but I've been on for a long time. I'm no longer on the medicine. They had to put a warning label on it. It's called Singulair. People do sometimes have facial tics.
@@nadm ok now I feel foolish for even asking or thinking you may be spitting on it 😔 sorry
No definitive answer for a newbie! Long video which one performed the best?
Did you not see the end of the video? We put up a chart to show you which one was best. Gummy juice performed the best
Your link to Omaha knives is a link to a video game site, Not a knife or knife product site.
I only recently learned that the company went away. I don't really know, but Scott Gunn told me that somehow or another they could not afford to stay open or something so I apologize. I need to apologize for taking so long. I've had a surgery on my knee and some other things going on. We've had the court case for my car accident. We had to deal with that as well. We've also had some other major things happening personally. Deaths in the family and lots of arrangements to be made. Also, I'll let you know that I will be having another major surgery in June and will not be making it to the Blade show. I will be out of work for two weeks because I'm having all the extra skin cut off of my body. We do apologize for an interruption of videos if it were to happen. Will try to shoot some head for you guys so we can fill the space. That being said, thank you for checking out the show. Thank you for your support and your comment.
I would love to show you my knife collection.
You know me on Facebook. Send me a personal message. My emails in the about section of the UA-cam page
@@nadm I don’t have social media because of my job. Can I send you my email on here without everyone seeing?
@@AJ-by6pd iamhairdresser@gmail.com
@@nadm sorry for the late reply, but I just emailed you.
@@AJ-by6pd yes sir! I got it and thank you. I did respond. Your collection is gorgeous
Lol. I bet your wife doesn’t care at all. I’m positive my wife doesn’t, she tells me all the time.
Thanks for your video. Temu has some in the syringe whenever you buy it.
God bless and keep ‘em shaving
It always saddens me to see obviously strong, competant, professional types reduced to apologetics, proof-texting their every word, and literally fearing their viewers ooinions.........and cancellations. Utube rules, threats of demonetization, and squaking feedbacks are likely at the root of it. A sign of the times. Butt🍑.........still sad.
A good teacher is hard to come by. They should never be forced into apologetics by their "students," or their overseers. A master craftsman should never have to prove to his "students" that he isn't taking payola, bribes, or perks from merchants. Maybe the problem stems from wee "viewers" being seen as a paying audience, rather than indebted students_________indebted to a master craftsman's good will!!! Enough apologetics, cancellations, and fear of getting a 👎, already. I once apprenticed under a master who never let his students "reduce" him in anything, let alone to the point of having to demonstrate his honesty.
We don't do it anymore. That was a long time ago. We were at the very beginning and we were trying to get monetized. We have relax so much more since then. If he watches now we are just gonna groove. You guys are friends and we're just talking to you. We don't really make any money doing this and so we don't really care about that anymore. We're just barely holding on to still doing it because it's never been profitable at all. I mean seriously haven't really made anything. I think we're upside down about $56,000. If I sold everything I might be able to pull some of it back out but right now we're just entertaining you guys in keeping it up for the love but we're probably gonna have to cut back some of the episodes just because it's very taxing with no profit being made.
RIP Ken Schwartz
Yes indeed! Rest in peace Ken Schwartz! He was great to talk to. He was very intense. Very passionate! He was heartbroken when his wife died. He did not last very long after that.
Did you hear that Ken Schwartz passed away?
No! Absolutely not. His wife just passed away. I'll have to go look. I'm deeply saddened.
I can’t believe how good those wife … canvas maybe,,, belts my wife had work without anything
5 minutes of almost legal disclaimers on why this is not a fully scientific process...i don't have one hour for this...
You just wasted that diamond material when you wiped it on the paper towel.
We try to do everything live in or sometimes not prepared. We had a lot to prepare for that video. I was fortunate also that the manufacturers each gave me the bottle. I don't believe in wasting and quite frugal when it comes to certain things. I understand what you mean and I appreciate you pointing it out. We were just flying by the seat of our pants. Sometimes these videos can get extremely long. We don't like to edit because we don't want you to think that we did something to alter the results
Doesn't really prove much all the same, Extreme sharpness is ephemeral! and I hone straight razors professionally.
It proves enough to those who are looking to purchase a product. It proves how much of a difference there is in comparison to the price. Some people lack skills when it comes to Sharpening. They do rely a little bit too much on the diamond emulsion to help them. It just shows them how much they can squeak out of cleaning up the Apex of a knife. Razor blades are extremely thin. They’re not used for the workhorse tasks that are asked of chefs. Getting a defined edge and having it last for a while is important. Razors have to be maintained all the time for their task. If we were to sharpen a knife as thin as a razor than the knife wouldn’t last very long.
@@nadm Thanks for the reply, I did enjoy looking at your beautiful knives.
Regards,
Jamie.
@@j.mahoney1178
Hey listen, thanks for coming. And also, thank you for your comment. I look forward to learning from you. Especially, since you’re a professional razor sharpener. And we haven’t thought about doing any information on that. I don’t own a straight razor regularly. I am a hairdresser, so we sometimes use disposable razors for a straight razors. It’s easier to keep up with the law. I do want to own one for myself. I look forward to you continuously commenting.
@@nadm My pleasure, here's a short video I made of an HHT an abbreviation otherwise known as a hanging hair test, straight razors are mostly finished on stones in the 12K to 20K and 30K.
ua-cam.com/video/M91R2SAkQn8/v-deo.html
@@j.mahoney1178 thank you
The only suggestion I would add is that the test could have all been done on one knife so that blade geometry isn't a factor. With steel that's so easy to sharpen and to dull it would be pretty easy to test one compound, put a new edge on it and test the next one. But yeah, I don't think it even matters. With something like diamond compound, it's all the same. All you need to know is concentration and carrier, be it water or oil. Beyond that just get the cheapest cost one. I use some that 50% concentration with a oil carrier, they sell it on Amazon, it's like $10-$15 for a syringe. It works well on leather or wood. But of course it is oil based. The water based stuff like what CKTG sells works better on wood. The products like the DMT spray are low concentration and stupidly over priced. The products like the jende are comically over priced and I wouldn't even suggest my enemy waste money on that EDC bro nonsense. Homeboy must be making a killing selling like a couple bucks of raw materials for 500% additional markup over reasonable retail. When you see someone using poly vs mono as a marketing point to sell a product, your bs detector red flags should go up. Not saying it's not a good product, it's a great product. It's just silly over priced. Another cheaper way to go might be to get raw CBN or Diamond power and mix it with your own lapping solution, water or oil based.
I agree they all work, but at the same time we did see a difference. The oil takes forever to dry so that sucks. The concentration with Scott was twice as much as everyone else so you've definitely paid a different price but you got a different result with the same amount of energy. Ken Schwartz came back after the video and he said he was very happy with how we conducted the test. All the knives for sharpened my me prior so the edge geometry is the same. We're not needing to have the thickness behind the edge make a difference. We're just testing the edge. All the knives have been previously sharpened by myself, so I do believe that the edge angle is consistent. Like I said, Kim was extremely ecstatic and later put this video in his product page before he passed away. I've now use some other ones with oil, and I cannot stand them. They seem to never dry. But yes, you can get great results with all of them. It just depends on how fanatical you want to be.
@@nadm Yeah for sure. A lot of it is down to personal preference, what kind of draw feel you like, and also what kind of surface you're loading. Loading onto Leather with high concentration oil stuff has worked good for me. The leather absorbs the oil and the surface of the leather ends up very evenly coated in whiteish gray diamonds depending on the grit. One benefit of the oil is its very easy to apply evenly vs the stickier water based stuff that can get gunked up quick. That stuff works fine too, on wood and on leather, and provides a more sticky draw. More resistance in the draw. Some oil compounds stay very slippery, like the DMT stuff, which I really don't like for knives but isn't an issue for razors. It's all good man. You do good.