What could Ye Wenjie be charged with? Leading a terrorist organisation; conspiracy to commit dozens of murders; assisting a hostile military (basically treason); 8 billion counts of reckless endangerment of human life…. It makes no sense that they let her go.
Really enjoyed this discussion and Preston's commentary. His understanding of Chinese is pretty on point and quite impressive. Also laughed out loud at realizing how some concepts were logically kind of ridiculous when you take a step back lol. I think some people criticizing the show characters for being unable to connect with them as much don't realize how, unlike other books and many western literature, this series is not really a character driven, character focused story. Just like how the author explained in one of his interviews, the characters are only there to serve the plot and for him to explore ideas in this particular story. I can tell DnD tried bring more focus to the characters and create links to increase how watchers might feel about them to better suit an audience expecting a more character driven story. As for book readers, there are always naysayers. A show with time restraints and other limitations will never be as good as one's own unbridled imagination.
I was actually amazed at how much I liked the show. As a big fan of the books, I was very….apprehensive…when Netflix got their hands on this. And even MORE concerned when I heard D&D were going to be running it. But, I really enjoyed it. Is it perfect? No. And while there’s a lot of changes from the books, those changes work well for the show. It’s a proper adaptation. (Emphasis on ADAPTATION) And that’s all I can really ask for. It was really good. Hope we get a few more seasons. D&D really do like swinging for the fences tho, don’t they? 😂 Song of Ice and Fire, and now Remembrance of Earth’s Past…. They literally run toward the “unadaptable” 😊
D&D producing didn't worry me at all. People tend to judge them solely by the last seasons of Thrones, but remember they also gave us the epic first 5.5 seasons, when they had source material to work with.
Can’t wait to see another dicussion with Preston after he finish reading the trilogy! I read both the Chinese version and Ken Liu’s translation. I think the translation is pretty on point, as Liu Cixin’s style is, a little dry. I don’t think I slept for a week the first time I read the trilogy
Well, sending out probes to explore nearby star systems runs into the risk of exposing their own existence, a direct violation of the dark forest theory.
The idiom "面壁思过" in Chinese refers to the act of facing the wall and reflecting on one's misdeeds, akin to self-reflection. It is considered a form of punishment, where individuals are isolated to contemplate their actions and seek inner resolution. In the wuxia novel The Smiling, Proud Wanderer, there's a notable example where a character is punished by their master and sent to the "思过崖" (the Cliff of Contemplation) to reflect on their actions. Thus, the role of a "面壁者" (Wallfacer) also entails both penance and introspection.
Something else which is very dark of DnD btw, is that they keep hinting at Will's end. They give him a gold fish in a glass jar... and then a sack of water..
Honestly, I think people need to relax or Hollywood needs to stop adapting fantasy/sci-fi. I’m new to the online discourse community and I find it to be often too toxic to stomach. I enjoyed these shows better without the misery driven criticism. I loved this series so far because the characters and the human condition aspects of sci-fi were front and center. It is very clear what the internal conflict/discourse were. If I had one complaint, it was the pacing in the middle but I can’t even really say it was an issue cause upon rewatch, I realized the nuances that were missed. In short, I love it. I don’t particular love the fandom though. Not of these books but of GoT. They’re petulant.
Sophon is translated from “zhi zi”. It sounds like a common Japanese name in Chinese. My interpretation is that this is referring to all the way back when Japan invaded China a century ago. And the tension between Chinese and Japanese ever since
Allegedly, when the first book was published as a serial, there was a prologue that flat out said that the story was an allegory for Japan's historical imperial ambitions in China.
Quick note on the language here. Sophon broken down,as far as I understand, is a reference to the root word 'soph' as in, philosophy, sophistry, sophisticated etc. KNOWLEDGE. And the end of the word 'ON' is the same as other particles like electron, proton, etc. Also, Netflix does a pretty good job of showing or telling us a lot of the stuff we might miss in the Chinese language. Like right when they find out about the san ti, they call them the san ti ren, "3 body people"... I'm sure there's a whole lot more, you guys probably get into it. Just wanted to chime in there before I forget.
I feel like Thomas Wade and his organization is how Stannis would handle an alien invasion. I wish D&D would have put this much planning into the final seasons of Game of Thrones. The Others should have been treated like an alien invasion and we should have seen how different factions tried and failed to defend against them. Then it ends with Bran traveling back in time to give Jon Snow, Daenerys, and Tryion information about the failed attempts. They had a time traveling character and didn’t use time travel 🤦🏽♂️
i didn't read the books, i will say i didn't experience any slowing at all at all, but i am a huge scifi fan especially HARD scifi, so the later episodes were where they were getting more and more into that area of it, i switched from wanting to see what happens to them to wanting to see what they do about it. i don't agree that it needed to be more scientific because they still gave us the scientific reasonings they just usually did so with a simple phrase mentioned in passing, but when you know what the phrase means it all makes sense.
The most fun idea I had while watching the show was when they introduced the concept of sending a human to meet them and the obvious implication there is that each and every one of us could feasibly be living in that scenario... right now, if you presume the tech is possible. Why not simulate a human life on a human brain to study them? They have perfect virtual reality, why not place a human brain into a scenario where they're living a normal life and observe them. That could be life right now, that could be you... wake up Tyler, it's time to wake up.
The Chinese tv adaptation of 3 Body Problem on Tencent apartly has great ommissions of govt critical plot points and exploration. Including what is Netflixs opening scene (which not having that changes everything)
Yeah, I expected Tencent not being able to show all of that, and it does change things but they also presented enough motivation (in my opinion) for Ye Wenjie to do what she did. It was a very obvious change though.
Revisiting the initial chapters of the books, it becomes evident that the implication regarding Einstein and the theory of relativity is not one of falsehood or error in the theory. There is no outright dismissal of its validity. Rather, the issue, as the author astutely points out, is in the professor's thinking and opening, even as beaten that there could be god given how the science works. Tho the irony is that he does not think there is a god given the brutality they inflict on him , the professor is just a very honest man. In the broader context of the time, particularly amid the backdrop of communism, the crux of the matter pivots on the dichotomy between atheism and theism. Accusations directed at Einstein stem from a perceived attempt to propagate a theory that allows for the possibility of a divine entity. Even Shaolin, the professor's wife, in the books is so smart and politically savvy that she starts changing the names of theories from wester names like Einstein's theory of relativity to simply "relativity" and other names.
I saw news that most chinese are split in two groups where they like the netflix adaptation but others hate it because it minimizes the Chinese involvement and it left people pissed off. That it's the westerners that come up with all the genius stuff and the Chinese are the villains, when its a Chinese author and very Chinese culture, ideas, battle plans and so on that are used. The western criticsm seems to come from confusion with the sciency bits and what is where and who, and the more toxic side of all the authors being diversity hires.
Yes, the original text in Chinese had a ton of word play and puns that native Chinese readers understand. It is like Jack Rooney said many funny things in the show but then you only translate the meaning of what he said and not how he said it. That is how I feel about the translation quality of the three body problem in English. But, to be fair, it is really hard to convey the original text word choices and word play into English easily, you might need a literary genius in both English and Chinese to do that job.
The description of the book 'The Sparrow' sounds similar to 'Three Body Problem'. I'll have to tackle both books when I think I can handle the existential dread.
Yea, some translation are off, like the words which was carved on the The Great Ravine Memorial sculpture. imo they should be "To the time to civilization, rather than to civilization in time .", it comes from "To the time to life, rather than to life in time." --- Blaise Pascal
We can freeze tissues for a quite a long time, if we don't care about the brain working after we can probably freeze a brain, unfreezing it is beyond us since it will damaged but the technology is there. The staircase is once again there as well, we can probably make something like that happen , the issue is money and reason. I don't think its overall that unreasonable. More broadly and I think that's a reference to the cold war as is the book, that technology expands usually faster under war/comeptitive conditions. Which is what allows humanity to finally invest into those technologies. Humanity enters this cold war with trisolerans.
@@roadtotarvalon The brain thing actually works, the trisolerans are going to rebuild his body why not rebuild his mushy brain cell walls lol. On the topic of options absolutely, that's what makes the first book and second a bit the most fun, as you said in the video, everyone just throws the kitchen sink at the wall to see what we can make work . Its basically humanity working in war mode with no bars on money.
Yeah, about that no bars on money thing... I hope D&D and Woo do a montage of the consequence of that mentality during season 2's inevitable time skip. It's a rather important turning point that shapes the future society. I think Wade said "Right now the only research we'll be doing is planetary defense!" - obviously this is going to have huge consequences for entire world's quality of life if world governments every other pressing matters...@@konstantinkrastev4478
An accurate translation of the first book , with all of its nuance, and the multiple meanings inherent in the Chinese language , would have run into three volumes on its own .
The beginning scene of the cultural revolution, the public beat down of Ye wenjie’s father. Dr. Ye Zhetai 叶哲泰, that story line has a real backing, inspired by Tsinghua university's Physics Department chair, Ye Qixun，叶企孙 who was sacked and beaten for defending Einstein’s theories before the Cultural Revolution. That story was all true, except Dr. Ye didn't die on the stage in real life, but lived to witness the archedmic circle that he helped built in his lifetime, the start of STEM in China around him shred to bits in the next decade.
There is a proverb from China, and not just China but many countries for Ye Wenjie. When you are proud, life will find ways to humble you . She is humbled and tested time and time again and that's the beauty of her character. She could have condemned her father like her mother, she could have condemned the newspaper guy, in the prison like her sister did , and then with the friend who steals her work. But she never submits until the fall.
I always find it funny when people point blank assume she is a villain. If I had her life, I would have pressed that button too 😆 she's unrelentless. She doesn't even submit to the Trisolarins. Just arms Luo Ji and goes out on her own terms.
@@roadtotarvalon Exactly she is not even a villain. She is just a very hurt person, that never outgrows those awful conditions where all she has is her pride. No blanket, no parents, nobody all she has is her will and pride. I think examining her character is that she even allows herself to be mercy killed Ye winjie would throw herself, she would never let someone else have authority over her.
Am I wrong for not interpreting the mountain lab guy as stealing her work? Didn't they have a conversation about shooting a beam at the sun being heretical and treason, so it would be risky for an enemy of the state like Ye to suggest it?
I knew nothing of this series or the books but I feel like the pacing was good for the first big chunk of the season but then the last episode or two the pacing was super quick. I feel like the way they portrayed it characters were kind of meandering and then it’s like wait now they are relevant very conveniently which is a bummer. The characters were not the most likable, mainly the main 5, (Benedict Wong, Liam Cunningham , and jess hong were fantastic) but the story was so compelling I was invested. Overall I really liked the show and am hopeful they get a second season and it doesn’t take 3 years to come out
The only criticism of the show that I think lands, and it doesn't bother me at all really, is the Oxford 5. They really seem more like California hipsters than Oxford trained physicists
My problems regarding the adaptation. Firstly, the events that unfold in the fifth episode should have been reserved for the season finale. By doing so, this would leave more time to focus on character development and delve deeper into Evan’s organization history and factions to make it feel like a real threat to humanity. Also more time to have more iterations of the virtual reality game. Secondly, Wade’s agency feels peculiar. Despite the secret war happening globally, the weight of governments working together isn’t adequately portrayed. It’s essential to convey the gravity of their collaboration in this covert conflict. I would like to see meetings of representatives of the world's powers.
Yeah, the first half of the story is incredibly speedy. But if they were worried about not getting another season I can absolutely see why front loading that and moving on would be a good option. Books 2 and 3 are very good and getting there quickly might have saved it from an early cancellation.
I agree, for me, the perfect season finale would've been the scene where the San ti manifest to the entire world and the screens are filled with the "you are bugs" message. I guess the showrunners were given limited time to develop the story.
I wish we had seen more of Ye Wenjie at Red Coast Base . It would have shown the extra levels of betrayal she suffered , and what she was willing to do to advance her cause (spoiler alert , murder). She came across as a misguided kindly grandmother in the series , rather than an iron willed sociopath.
@12:25. Yeah the San-Ti were advanced enough to realize that sending messages was a potential end to their civilization. This is the whole basis of the Dark Forest position.
But they are advanced enough to instead send a covert scout or probe to find new habitable planets. 🤔 You technically don't need to announce your presence because you aren't sending out a signal but moving in the shadows so to speak.
i'll admit, i'm one of those GoT fans who're still salty about D&D, and am fully ready to shit on them for any bad decision they make in this adaptation xD those smug bastards never apologised for s8, so they kinda fully deserve the hate imo. the fact that they somehow still landed on their feet must really feel like spitting in the eyes of GoT fans all over. that said, if this adaptation is done well, it's still a net good for us consumers! but 10/10 would still egg D&D if i ever met them irl tho.
young mike evans did not resemble old man mike evans in mannerisms, body language or presence at all. they didn't seem like the same person in the slightest. very strange choice of actors one way or the other.
I would love to know what Preston thinks of my interpretation of the karaoke scene. I think it balances the awfulness of the Cultural Revolution with a different kind of human awfulness - the everyday awfulness of casual sexism and lack of self-awareness, that persists even in a society that likes to think it's more enlightened and tolerant. Like, even just the flaws of humanity on display in that bar scene could be enough to turn someone against humanity and want to burn it all down. In other words, it's doing thematic work, rather than just providing a naturalistic opportunity for exposition.
I dont understand why they chose slicing the ship with nano fibers. It looked cool, but it should have destoyed the hard drive thing they suspected was there.
I feel Netflix adaption more like a group of people who are chosen by the god to save the world lol. Within a small group of “friends”they hang out together and have the ability, resource, knowledge, ideas, power to do anything in the story. In the book, however, it was never easy to make every single small step, people from different countries need sit together to discuss the difficulties and make a lot of plans for the judgement day but in the TV series it was just an idea coming up and convince a friend and then can go for it. It makes everything so much easier so I am imagining if I was one of the group I would not worry that much about 3bd. However, the book has been trying to deliver a message that human and earth are small and tiny in the universe. People from different places of the world are trying to fight for their home in their ways though, it is not about a group of heroes saving the world like revengers.
You guys should watch the tencent Chinese drama 3body consisting of 30 episodes with a budget of just over $10 million USD. The Chinese version is more closer to the book. Netflix spend $20m per episode and I cannot see where the money went.
Fans of the story would do well to check out the artful *Three-Body (2023)* the slower Chinese TV version with mostly the same set-pieces but mostly different characters.
I strongly disagree. Auggie represents one perspective on the central theme of the story - that maybe if survival requires we abandon our morality, it isn't worth it. It's precisely Eiza's subtle but passionate acting that brings that out and provides a moral counterweight to the "ends justify the means" themes embodied by Wade. I think, to that extent, she's as much a lead as anyone can be in an ensemble cast like this. And she's a huge improvement over the narrative blankness of Wang Miao.
@@maxsilva11 Exactly. She's supposed to be a frustrating (and frustrating) character because her morality is at odds with the go-getter characters who just want to "advance" at all costs.
8/10 if i had not read the book. 4/10 as a book reader (It really is my all time favorite sifi) I watched the whole thing in one go. In the last episode were they showed the ant on the tomb stone i thought: Well, good damn, they did a really good job! I love the decisions with the characters. The Wade and Will Downing/Tianming characters even better then in the books. The most important concepts are in the show and non is really butchered. (I was under no Illusion that even 10% of the science will be in the show :) Its kinda sad, there were no meetings with all the military leaders from around the world. I think this is the main reason Da Shi could not really shine. I love the decision to not include the cringe Nuke scene. Don't like the Tatiana kill scene or or the gore in the game, but it does not bother me too much. Well, then came the Ye Wenjie scene, that changed the course of human history. And Holy shit they butchered that so much. What the F is that Joke?!? Its just dumb. They really think the audience is fing stupid and cant even grasp the simplest of concept. They made my beloved science riddle into a joke. Damn. That hurts, ngl. And were is Bill Hines? Will they cut the whole mental seal concept? That would be really bad. Yeah i was really disappointed at the end :( Now with a bit distance its ok :)
@@roadtotarvalon [Contains SPOILER for a core idea in Three Body] Around the 5:00 - 6:00 mark, you discussed how not understanding Chinese might lead to missing out on many wordplays and puns. As a Chinese person, I believe this might be the least significant aspect in this series of books. Indeed, the original title "三体" can be literally translated as "three body," referencing various concepts within the books, but there's no homophonic pun here. However, there are indeed homophonic puns in the book, such as "Luo Ji (罗辑)" - "logic (逻辑)" and "Sophon (智子)" - "proton (质子)". One character was named "Ai AA (艾AA)" because Liu Cixin was switching to typing with Pinyin, and he was really bad at it, and he hadn't figured out her name as well. However, these trivial wordplays are inconsequential when it comes to understanding the Three-Body series. I believe both Chinese and foreign readers are primarily interested in the plot of the story and the underlying principles. As a Chinese person who witnessed how Three Body and Liu Cixin evolved from being niche sci-fi to household names in the past decade, what's more intriguing to me is how the Three Body series truly reflects the worldview of modern Chinese society, which is also why it was so successful. In Three Body, due to limited resources, all civilizations inevitably become hostile to each other. This worldview reflects how many Chinese people perceive society and the world. Many sincerely believe that winning competitions through bribery, deception, and other means is justifiable because "everyone does it, and not doing so means losing." Many also support Russia's invasion of Ukraine, China's "reclamation" of Taiwan, and China's "teaching lessons" to neighboring countries, viewing it as necessary for securing living space. Due to the immense popularity of the Three Body series in China, there are now people earnestly believing in the "Dark Forest Theory" and using it to interpret all international and social dynamics. On a societal level, I think this has led to some people not believing in genuine communication of ideas and simply assuming the worst about everybody. On an international level, this has led to outright advocacy of racism and chauvinism. Throughout "Three Body" and Liu Cixin's other works, it's not difficult to see his obsession with social Darwinism, and many Chinese admire him precisely because he depicts a "real and brutal" world within this perspective. In short, if you're curious about the cultural factor in Three Body, I think understanding the social sentiment is a better and more interesting perspective.
Auggie was definitely the most annoying character on the show, very flip floppy and didn’t seem to have a ton of actual agency but was just where the plot needed her. And if there was something between her and Saul that was portrayed super poorly and didn’t make much sense to me with minimal if any chemistry.
It’s always quite disturbing when I see some foreigners who speak some Chinese start to act like they are the Chinese expert and analyze China. Many authors in China are pretty famous being critical to Cultural revolution which includes the Nobel literature winner 莫言 (Mo yang), and 余华（Yu Wua) who is known for book (Alive). China is noting like what this guy depicted. He starts criticizing the story with very limited knowledge about the book, exactly like he analyze China with a condescending tone in which you can tell from his accent he acquires only very restricted Chinese. This guy is a dunning kruger effect patient who reinforce stereotype of China with a glimpse of his western lens and believe he is omniscience
I didn't find his tone condescending. He also never said he is an expert of all things China. Seems to me he is just giving his impression, and your own personal bias is clouding your perception. One can educate or provide supplemental knowledge without being so reactive, defensive and insulting. While he has some knowledge, though perhaps not as extensive as a Chinese reader on our own literature, which he did acknowledge in the beginning of the conversation, he isn't wrong about treading lightly in regards to political topics and censorship. Not to say it is an all out ban or that there aren't people who are openly critical but that it takes balls to do so and the finesse to not overstep, so true freedom of speech is still somewhat limited. I mean it was enough for Tencent to not show some critical parts of Ye's initial character development while they spent time adding extra stuff elsewhere. Anyways, at least from my experience, I personally didn't realize how much was censored until I lived abroad. As they say, 不识庐山真面目，只缘身在此山中。 And let's not use someone's accent to determine their breath of cultural or linguistic knowledge. That just comes off as xenophobic.
I liked the show, but I wouldn't be excited for season 2 at all if I hadn't read about the rest of the story. The main characters on the show just aren't that interesting. I get that it was a hard task to adapt and they created those 5 friends to help with that, but it came off too silly.
I feel like this adaptation has simplified many things for wider audiences, which is fine. But the characters are kind simple and it does not well explain or express the character’s motive or emotions. It’s a good start, hope there will be a second season
Tencent did a superior work fleshing out the Characters, the Phylosophy, the Drama, the Science, etc. This Netflix trash is not fit for anything. All the characters are the same single trash I don't care about. Who care about a single Detective? Not me. Who care about Bunch of single friends claiming to be scientists but don't make scientific sense when they speak? Not me. Every Dialogue in Tencent's adaptation had my attention.
It is true the Oxford 5 did not feel like real "scientists". It felt like milliennials flexing their Linkedln. Which I understand a little bit because this a tv show not a book. We were also brainwash to expect big flashy actions by fictional super genius like Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, Peter, Shuri, Hiro Hamada or super detective like, Holmes, Light Yagami, Conan or super doctors. That we forget that real "genius" are normal people with high set of skills/knowledge in a specific field, long year of study and not superpowers that can be apply on the spot in real life.
What could Ye Wenjie be charged with? Leading a terrorist organisation; conspiracy to commit dozens of murders; assisting a hostile military (basically treason); 8 billion counts of reckless endangerment of human life…. It makes no sense that they let her go.
Really enjoyed this discussion and Preston's commentary. His understanding of Chinese is pretty on point and quite impressive. Also laughed out loud at realizing how some concepts were logically kind of ridiculous when you take a step back lol.
I think some people criticizing the show characters for being unable to connect with them as much don't realize how, unlike other books and many western literature, this series is not really a character driven, character focused story. Just like how the author explained in one of his interviews, the characters are only there to serve the plot and for him to explore ideas in this particular story. I can tell DnD tried bring more focus to the characters and create links to increase how watchers might feel about them to better suit an audience expecting a more character driven story.
As for book readers, there are always naysayers. A show with time restraints and other limitations will never be as good as one's own unbridled imagination.
This was by far the best review of the series that I've seen so far.
Thanks!
I was actually amazed at how much I liked the show. As a big fan of the books, I was very….apprehensive…when Netflix got their hands on this. And even MORE concerned when I heard D&D were going to be running it. But, I really enjoyed it. Is it perfect? No. And while there’s a lot of changes from the books, those changes work well for the show. It’s a proper adaptation. (Emphasis on ADAPTATION) And that’s all I can really ask for. It was really good. Hope we get a few more seasons. D&D really do like swinging for the fences tho, don’t they? 😂 Song of Ice and Fire, and now Remembrance of Earth’s Past…. They literally run toward the “unadaptable” 😊
D&D producing didn't worry me at all. People tend to judge them solely by the last seasons of Thrones, but remember they also gave us the epic first 5.5 seasons, when they had source material to work with.
I felt exactly the same way as you, I was quite surprised and relieved!
I laughed so hard when you commented on Evan's choice of living in China at that time saying "yolo". Love your review so much 😄
😆💜
Can’t wait to see another dicussion with Preston after he finish reading the trilogy! I read both the Chinese version and Ken Liu’s translation. I think the translation is pretty on point, as Liu Cixin’s style is, a little dry. I don’t think I slept for a week the first time I read the trilogy
12:50 They actually answer this in the VR game, the chaotic eras stopped their progress hundreds of times.
Well, sending out probes to explore nearby star systems runs into the risk of exposing their own existence, a direct violation of the dark forest theory.
🤫 Preston hasn't read the books.
Yep, but our guest here hasn't read the books and his complaint is valid. But of course... we know.
@@roastpork5437 🩷 🐷
You should be able to use sophons for surveillance with out alerting anyone to your presence because it’s so small right?
@@AvantTom You don't take ANY risks in the dark forest. And, even if the best, its still fiction :)
Agree with Preston overall the characters are GREAT. Much better than in the books, I wish we got more of Ye Wenjie tho she is so cool.
The idiom "面壁思过" in Chinese refers to the act of facing the wall and reflecting on one's misdeeds, akin to self-reflection. It is considered a form of punishment, where individuals are isolated to contemplate their actions and seek inner resolution. In the wuxia novel The Smiling, Proud Wanderer, there's a notable example where a character is punished by their master and sent to the "思过崖" (the Cliff of Contemplation) to reflect on their actions. Thus, the role of a "面壁者" (Wallfacer) also entails both penance and introspection.
Something else which is very dark of DnD btw, is that they keep hinting at Will's end. They give him a gold fish in a glass jar... and then a sack of water..
It's also a hint to the Earth's end.
That almost made me cry :) They really did a phenomenal job with the whole Will/Staircase Project.
My two favorite UA-camrs! Thanks for putting this together, Amber.
Honestly, I think people need to relax or Hollywood needs to stop adapting fantasy/sci-fi. I’m new to the online discourse community and I find it to be often too toxic to stomach. I enjoyed these shows better without the misery driven criticism.
I loved this series so far because the characters and the human condition aspects of sci-fi were front and center. It is very clear what the internal conflict/discourse were. If I had one complaint, it was the pacing in the middle but I can’t even really say it was an issue cause upon rewatch, I realized the nuances that were missed. In short, I love it. I don’t particular love the fandom though. Not of these books but of GoT. They’re petulant.
Sophon is translated from “zhi zi”. It sounds like a common Japanese name in Chinese. My interpretation is that this is referring to all the way back when Japan invaded China a century ago. And the tension between Chinese and Japanese ever since
Sophon was created from tianming (will) memories in the book who was a Japanese actress....
Allegedly, when the first book was published as a serial, there was a prologue that flat out said that the story was an allegory for Japan's historical imperial ambitions in China.
Quick note on the language here. Sophon broken down,as far as I understand, is a reference to the root word 'soph' as in, philosophy, sophistry, sophisticated etc. KNOWLEDGE. And the end of the word 'ON' is the same as other particles like electron, proton, etc.
Also, Netflix does a pretty good job of showing or telling us a lot of the stuff we might miss in the Chinese language. Like right when they find out about the san ti, they call them the san ti ren, "3 body people"... I'm sure there's a whole lot more, you guys probably get into it. Just wanted to chime in there before I forget.
I feel like Thomas Wade and his organization is how Stannis would handle an alien invasion.
I wish D&D would have put this much planning into the final seasons of Game of Thrones. The Others should have been treated like an alien invasion and we should have seen how different factions tried and failed to defend against them. Then it ends with Bran traveling back in time to give Jon Snow, Daenerys, and Tryion information about the failed attempts. They had a time traveling character and didn’t use time travel 🤦🏽♂️
i didn't read the books, i will say i didn't experience any slowing at all at all, but i am a huge scifi fan especially HARD scifi, so the later episodes were where they were getting more and more into that area of it, i switched from wanting to see what happens to them to wanting to see what they do about it. i don't agree that it needed to be more scientific because they still gave us the scientific reasonings they just usually did so with a simple phrase mentioned in passing, but when you know what the phrase means it all makes sense.
The sun isn’t going supernova, it’ll turn into a red giant and then a white dwarf
The most fun idea I had while watching the show was when they introduced the concept of sending a human to meet them and the obvious implication there is that each and every one of us could feasibly be living in that scenario... right now, if you presume the tech is possible. Why not simulate a human life on a human brain to study them? They have perfect virtual reality, why not place a human brain into a scenario where they're living a normal life and observe them. That could be life right now, that could be you... wake up Tyler, it's time to wake up.
It only needed like 2 or 3 minutes more, to make the human computer scene from cool to AWSOME :(
The Chinese tv adaptation of 3 Body Problem on Tencent apartly has great ommissions of govt critical plot points and exploration. Including what is Netflixs opening scene (which not having that changes everything)
Yeah, I expected Tencent not being able to show all of that, and it does change things but they also presented enough motivation (in my opinion) for Ye Wenjie to do what she did. It was a very obvious change though.
Revisiting the initial chapters of the books, it becomes evident that the implication regarding Einstein and the theory of relativity is not one of falsehood or error in the theory. There is no outright dismissal of its validity. Rather, the issue, as the author astutely points out, is in the professor's thinking and opening, even as beaten that there could be god given how the science works. Tho the irony is that he does not think there is a god given the brutality they inflict on him , the professor is just a very honest man.
In the broader context of the time, particularly amid the backdrop of communism, the crux of the matter pivots on the dichotomy between atheism and theism. Accusations directed at Einstein stem from a perceived attempt to propagate a theory that allows for the possibility of a divine entity. Even Shaolin, the professor's wife, in the books is so smart and politically savvy that she starts changing the names of theories from wester names like Einstein's theory of relativity to simply "relativity" and other names.
GOT finally got the chance to kill Sam😂
I saw news that most chinese are split in two groups where they like the netflix adaptation but others hate it because it minimizes the Chinese involvement and it left people pissed off.
That it's the westerners that come up with all the genius stuff and the Chinese are the villains, when its a Chinese author and very Chinese culture, ideas, battle plans and so on that are used.
The western criticsm seems to come from confusion with the sciency bits and what is where and who, and the more toxic side of all the authors being diversity hires.
Yes, the original text in Chinese had a ton of word play and puns that native Chinese readers understand. It is like Jack Rooney said many funny things in the show but then you only translate the meaning of what he said and not how he said it. That is how I feel about the translation quality of the three body problem in English. But, to be fair, it is really hard to convey the original text word choices and word play into English easily, you might need a literary genius in both English and Chinese to do that job.
The description of the book 'The Sparrow' sounds similar to 'Three Body Problem'. I'll have to tackle both books when I think I can handle the existential dread.
Yea, some translation are off, like the words which was carved on the The Great Ravine Memorial sculpture.
imo they should be "To the time to civilization, rather than to civilization in time .", it comes from "To the time to life, rather than to life in time." --- Blaise Pascal
We can freeze tissues for a quite a long time, if we don't care about the brain working after we can probably freeze a brain, unfreezing it is beyond us since it will damaged but the technology is there. The staircase is once again there as well, we can probably make something like that happen , the issue is money and reason.
I don't think its overall that unreasonable. More broadly and I think that's a reference to the cold war as is the book, that technology expands usually faster under war/comeptitive conditions.
Which is what allows humanity to finally invest into those technologies. Humanity enters this cold war with trisolerans.
Yeah. If there is a non zero chance it could work, it's worth it, because look at the other options! There aren't many.
@@roadtotarvalon The brain thing actually works, the trisolerans are going to rebuild his body why not rebuild his mushy brain cell walls lol.
On the topic of options absolutely, that's what makes the first book and second a bit the most fun, as you said in the video, everyone just throws the kitchen sink at the wall to see what we can make work . Its basically humanity working in war mode with no bars on money.
Yeah, about that no bars on money thing... I hope D&D and Woo do a montage of the consequence of that mentality during season 2's inevitable time skip. It's a rather important turning point that shapes the future society. I think Wade said "Right now the only research we'll be doing is planetary defense!" - obviously this is going to have huge consequences for entire world's quality of life if world governments every other pressing matters...@@konstantinkrastev4478
An accurate translation of the first book , with all of its nuance, and the multiple meanings inherent in the Chinese language , would have run into three volumes on its own .
The beginning scene of the cultural revolution, the public beat down of Ye wenjie’s father. Dr. Ye Zhetai 叶哲泰, that story line has a real backing, inspired by Tsinghua university's Physics Department chair, Ye Qixun，叶企孙 who was sacked and beaten for defending Einstein’s theories before the Cultural Revolution. That story was all true, except Dr. Ye didn't die on the stage in real life, but lived to witness the archedmic circle that he helped built in his lifetime, the start of STEM in China around him shred to bits in the next decade.
There is a proverb from China, and not just China but many countries for Ye Wenjie.
When you are proud, life will find ways to humble you . She is humbled and tested time and time again and that's the beauty of her character. She could have condemned her father like her mother, she could have condemned the newspaper guy, in the prison like her sister did , and then with the friend who steals her work. But she never submits until the fall.
I always find it funny when people point blank assume she is a villain. If I had her life, I would have pressed that button too 😆 she's unrelentless. She doesn't even submit to the Trisolarins. Just arms Luo Ji and goes out on her own terms.
@@roadtotarvalon Exactly she is not even a villain. She is just a very hurt person, that never outgrows those awful conditions where all she has is her pride. No blanket, no parents, nobody all she has is her will and pride. I think examining her character is that she even allows herself to be mercy killed Ye winjie would throw herself, she would never let someone else have authority over her.
Am I wrong for not interpreting the mountain lab guy as stealing her work? Didn't they have a conversation about shooting a beam at the sun being heretical and treason, so it would be risky for an enemy of the state like Ye to suggest it?
I knew nothing of this series or the books but I feel like the pacing was good for the first big chunk of the season but then the last episode or two the pacing was super quick. I feel like the way they portrayed it characters were kind of meandering and then it’s like wait now they are relevant very conveniently which is a bummer. The characters were not the most likable, mainly the main 5, (Benedict Wong, Liam Cunningham , and jess hong were fantastic) but the story was so compelling I was invested. Overall I really liked the show and am hopeful they get a second season and it doesn’t take 3 years to come out
The only criticism of the show that I think lands, and it doesn't bother me at all really, is the Oxford 5. They really seem more like California hipsters than Oxford trained physicists
The word San Ti in English sounds like Sun three (3 suns)
❤
My problems regarding the adaptation. Firstly, the events that unfold in the fifth episode should have been reserved for the season finale. By doing so, this would leave more time to focus on character development and delve deeper into Evan’s organization history and factions to make it feel like a real threat to humanity. Also more time to have more iterations of the virtual reality game.
Secondly, Wade’s agency feels peculiar. Despite the secret war happening globally, the weight of governments working together isn’t adequately portrayed. It’s essential to convey the gravity of their collaboration in this covert conflict. I would like to see meetings of representatives of the world's powers.
Yeah, the first half of the story is incredibly speedy. But if they were worried about not getting another season I can absolutely see why front loading that and moving on would be a good option. Books 2 and 3 are very good and getting there quickly might have saved it from an early cancellation.
I agree, for me, the perfect season finale would've been the scene where the San ti manifest to the entire world and the screens are filled with the "you are bugs" message. I guess the showrunners were given limited time to develop the story.
I wish we had seen more of Ye Wenjie at Red Coast Base . It would have shown the extra levels of betrayal she suffered , and what she was willing to do to advance her cause (spoiler alert , murder).
She came across as a misguided kindly grandmother in the series , rather than an iron willed sociopath.
@12:25. Yeah the San-Ti were advanced enough to realize that sending messages was a potential end to their civilization. This is the whole basis of the Dark Forest position.
Absolutely. I know that. Preston hasn't read the books, and I'm not trying to spoil anything for him.
But they are advanced enough to instead send a covert scout or probe to find new habitable planets. 🤔 You technically don't need to announce your presence because you aren't sending out a signal but moving in the shadows so to speak.
i'll admit, i'm one of those GoT fans who're still salty about D&D, and am fully ready to shit on them for any bad decision they make in this adaptation xD those smug bastards never apologised for s8, so they kinda fully deserve the hate imo. the fact that they somehow still landed on their feet must really feel like spitting in the eyes of GoT fans all over.
that said, if this adaptation is done well, it's still a net good for us consumers! but 10/10 would still egg D&D if i ever met them irl tho.
young mike evans did not resemble old man mike evans in mannerisms, body language or presence at all. they didn't seem like the same person in the slightest. very strange choice of actors one way or the other.
I would love to know what Preston thinks of my interpretation of the karaoke scene. I think it balances the awfulness of the Cultural Revolution with a different kind of human awfulness - the everyday awfulness of casual sexism and lack of self-awareness, that persists even in a society that likes to think it's more enlightened and tolerant. Like, even just the flaws of humanity on display in that bar scene could be enough to turn someone against humanity and want to burn it all down. In other words, it's doing thematic work, rather than just providing a naturalistic opportunity for exposition.
I dont understand why they chose slicing the ship with nano fibers. It looked cool, but it should have destoyed the hard drive thing they suspected was there.
Check out my most recent vid. That is answered.
The reason to use nanofibers is with such a fine cut the data could be recovered from a damaged hard drive
I feel Netflix adaption more like a group of people who are chosen by the god to save the world lol. Within a small group of “friends”they hang out together and have the ability, resource, knowledge, ideas, power to do anything in the story. In the book, however, it was never easy to make every single small step, people from different countries need sit together to discuss the difficulties and make a lot of plans for the judgement day but in the TV series it was just an idea coming up and convince a friend and then can go for it. It makes everything so much easier so I am imagining if I was one of the group I would not worry that much about 3bd. However, the book has been trying to deliver a message that human and earth are small and tiny in the universe. People from different places of the world are trying to fight for their home in their ways though, it is not about a group of heroes saving the world like revengers.
You guys should watch the tencent Chinese drama 3body consisting of 30 episodes with a budget of just over $10 million USD. The Chinese version is more closer to the book. Netflix spend $20m per episode and I cannot see where the money went.
I have an entire series on my channel covering it.
Fans of the story would do well to check out the artful *Three-Body (2023)* the slower Chinese TV version with mostly the same set-pieces but mostly different characters.
Yeah. I have a whole series on my channel dedicated to it. I loved it. I don't mind the slower pace either. Can't wait to see their season 2.
I'm checking out your playlist for Three-Body (2023)! It's great, thanks for pointing it out!@@roadtotarvalon
Eiza González was totally MISUSED. She's lead material.
I wish she kept her nose
I strongly disagree. Auggie represents one perspective on the central theme of the story - that maybe if survival requires we abandon our morality, it isn't worth it. It's precisely Eiza's subtle but passionate acting that brings that out and provides a moral counterweight to the "ends justify the means" themes embodied by Wade. I think, to that extent, she's as much a lead as anyone can be in an ensemble cast like this. And she's a huge improvement over the narrative blankness of Wang Miao.
@@maxsilva11 Exactly. She's supposed to be a frustrating (and frustrating) character because her morality is at odds with the go-getter characters who just want to "advance" at all costs.
There is no pun on the term 3-ti, ok
Why didnt they take a 400 year trip on a whim id basically your question.
How? Their society existed for thousand and thousands of years and they never sent a probe?
There is a reason for that... stay tune for season 2. @@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin
8/10 if i had not read the book.
4/10 as a book reader (It really is my all time favorite sifi)
I watched the whole thing in one go. In the last episode were they showed the ant on the tomb stone i thought: Well, good damn, they did a really good job!
I love the decisions with the characters. The Wade and Will Downing/Tianming characters even better then in the books.
The most important concepts are in the show and non is really butchered. (I was under no Illusion that even 10% of the science will be in the show :)
Its kinda sad, there were no meetings with all the military leaders from around the world. I think this is the main reason Da Shi could not really shine.
I love the decision to not include the cringe Nuke scene. Don't like the Tatiana kill scene or or the gore in the game, but it does not bother me too much.
Well, then came the Ye Wenjie scene, that changed the course of human history. And Holy shit they butchered that so much. What the F is that Joke?!? Its just dumb. They really think the audience is fing stupid and cant even grasp the simplest of concept. They made my beloved science riddle into a joke. Damn. That hurts, ngl.
And were is Bill Hines? Will they cut the whole mental seal concept? That would be really bad.
Yeah i was really disappointed at the end :(
Now with a bit distance its ok :)
I disagree 9/10 and I read the books think they nailed it
calm down, there's no reference in the name of San Ti in chinese
What?
@@roadtotarvalon [Contains SPOILER for a core idea in Three Body]
Around the 5:00 - 6:00 mark, you discussed how not understanding Chinese might lead to missing out on many wordplays and puns. As a Chinese person, I believe this might be the least significant aspect in this series of books.
Indeed, the original title "三体" can be literally translated as "three body," referencing various concepts within the books, but there's no homophonic pun here. However, there are indeed homophonic puns in the book, such as "Luo Ji (罗辑)" - "logic (逻辑)" and "Sophon (智子)" - "proton (质子)". One character was named "Ai AA (艾AA)" because Liu Cixin was switching to typing with Pinyin, and he was really bad at it, and he hadn't figured out her name as well.
However, these trivial wordplays are inconsequential when it comes to understanding the Three-Body series. I believe both Chinese and foreign readers are primarily interested in the plot of the story and the underlying principles. As a Chinese person who witnessed how Three Body and Liu Cixin evolved from being niche sci-fi to household names in the past decade, what's more intriguing to me is how the Three Body series truly reflects the worldview of modern Chinese society, which is also why it was so successful.
In Three Body, due to limited resources, all civilizations inevitably become hostile to each other. This worldview reflects how many Chinese people perceive society and the world. Many sincerely believe that winning competitions through bribery, deception, and other means is justifiable because "everyone does it, and not doing so means losing." Many also support Russia's invasion of Ukraine, China's "reclamation" of Taiwan, and China's "teaching lessons" to neighboring countries, viewing it as necessary for securing living space.
Due to the immense popularity of the Three Body series in China, there are now people earnestly believing in the "Dark Forest Theory" and using it to interpret all international and social dynamics. On a societal level, I think this has led to some people not believing in genuine communication of ideas and simply assuming the worst about everybody. On an international level, this has led to outright advocacy of racism and chauvinism.
Throughout "Three Body" and Liu Cixin's other works, it's not difficult to see his obsession with social Darwinism, and many Chinese admire him precisely because he depicts a "real and brutal" world within this perspective.
In short, if you're curious about the cultural factor in Three Body, I think understanding the social sentiment is a better and more interesting perspective.
Auggie was definitely the most annoying character on the show, very flip floppy and didn’t seem to have a ton of actual agency but was just where the plot needed her. And if there was something between her and Saul that was portrayed super poorly and didn’t make much sense to me with minimal if any chemistry.
It’s always quite disturbing when I see some foreigners who speak some Chinese start to act like they are the Chinese expert and analyze China. Many authors in China are pretty famous being critical to Cultural revolution which includes the Nobel literature winner 莫言 (Mo yang), and 余华（Yu Wua) who is known for book (Alive). China is noting like what this guy depicted. He starts criticizing the story with very limited knowledge about the book, exactly like he analyze China with a condescending tone in which you can tell from his accent he acquires only very restricted Chinese. This guy is a dunning kruger effect patient who reinforce stereotype of China with a glimpse of his western lens and believe he is omniscience
@@EdChen8v I live in China and I see nothing he speculated to be true and had given examples to prove so, and I don’t what’s your point.
I didn't find his tone condescending. He also never said he is an expert of all things China. Seems to me he is just giving his impression, and your own personal bias is clouding your perception. One can educate or provide supplemental knowledge without being so reactive, defensive and insulting. While he has some knowledge, though perhaps not as extensive as a Chinese reader on our own literature, which he did acknowledge in the beginning of the conversation, he isn't wrong about treading lightly in regards to political topics and censorship. Not to say it is an all out ban or that there aren't people who are openly critical but that it takes balls to do so and the finesse to not overstep, so true freedom of speech is still somewhat limited. I mean it was enough for Tencent to not show some critical parts of Ye's initial character development while they spent time adding extra stuff elsewhere. Anyways, at least from my experience, I personally didn't realize how much was censored until I lived abroad. As they say, 不识庐山真面目，只缘身在此山中。
And let's not use someone's accent to determine their breath of cultural or linguistic knowledge. That just comes off as xenophobic.
If he is wrong, please explain why both the book and the Tencent adaptation were modified to deemphasize the Cultural Revolution part of the story.
I liked the show, but I wouldn't be excited for season 2 at all if I hadn't read about the rest of the story. The main characters on the show just aren't that interesting. I get that it was a hard task to adapt and they created those 5 friends to help with that, but it came off too silly.
I feel like this adaptation has simplified many things for wider audiences, which is fine. But the characters are kind simple and it does not well explain or express the character’s motive or emotions. It’s a good start, hope there will be a second season
What character motivations didn't they express? Just curious who you are talking about.
Tencent did a superior work fleshing out the Characters, the Phylosophy, the Drama, the Science, etc. This Netflix trash is not fit for anything. All the characters are the same single trash I don't care about. Who care about a single Detective? Not me. Who care about Bunch of single friends claiming to be scientists but don't make scientific sense when they speak? Not me. Every Dialogue in Tencent's adaptation had my attention.
K.
It is true the Oxford 5 did not feel like real "scientists". It felt like milliennials flexing their Linkedln. Which I understand a little bit because this a tv show not a book.
We were also brainwash to expect big flashy actions by fictional super genius like Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, Peter, Shuri, Hiro Hamada or super detective like, Holmes, Light Yagami, Conan or super doctors.
That we forget that real "genius" are normal people with high set of skills/knowledge in a specific field, long year of study and not superpowers that can be apply on the spot in real life.
I thought Tencent characters mostly were just flat
Not a fan of Preston , at all. Just my opinion, responses not necessary