Air China 981 Pilot Lost at JFK | ATC vs Pilots
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
- Air China 981 was a viral video that happened as a result of the flight crew having expectation bias of their entry point to parking. That along with several other air traffic control and pilot exchanges in this new series similar to viral debrief.
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:46 747 Pilot Flex
5:32 Runway Change
9:09 Air China 981 pt1
11:29 Air China 981 pt 2
15:11 Air France Super
I’m always amazed when ATC or pilots talk fast on crappy sounding radios and everyone understands each other. I can barely tell what they’re saying without subtitles.
A lot of this is shared by aviation enthusiasts intercepting the transmissions when planespotting. When the pilots and ATC hear is usually clearer
Especially with all the different accents, etc!
@@MsJubjubbird believe most of the time it's this crappy
I’m 9 and I understand that stuff
;-;
@@SonNguyen-tm7xk and you don't need to brag
'Are you saying you have commitment issues sir?' - killed me
He should have finished with : "Well then, our wedding is _off!_"
Lol, Def Boston humor! ;) And living an hour south of Boston, its my FAV airport to land in because its really scary looking with the water alllll around, so it makes it really fun and exciting! Lol!! Prov is the other option and JUST like RI, its BORING and PLAIN, lol!
@@Em22-wtf Having moved from the Boston area to the southeast back in 2004, I can honestly say that while I don't miss *driving* at Logan, I do miss taking off and landing there. The views are so pretty! (Best airport I've ever *driven* into/out of is Norfolk, VA, but it's pretty tiny for an international airport. I lived just a few miles from it once I moved from Boston.)
Air France pilot: “Ok...” Unkeys mic “... Sit on a baguette mozerfuquer”
😂
ROFL
@Mouloud Ait-Kaci....🥖🍷Super
😁 & You still haven't answered my question so when ever get around to that that would be great ok smart arse
I read that in a French accent. Worth it
I think passengers sometimes forget all the work going on around us once we land. I’m grateful to all the pilots and ATC getting us to the gate safely. I miss travel.
Me too ! 😭
me to
I miss hugging crying flight attendants
I'm glad we don't hear these radio communications while on the flight.
Forget what's going on after they land, why: Some passengers bolt out of their seats, scramble for their luggage and start marching to the front the moment two wheels touch pavement. It's like they forgot it takes 20 minutes to taxi and hook up to a hallway.
At JFK now, air china 981 is still trying to get to the gate.
*This is your captain speaking. We have been looking for a gate for over a month now. Bad news, you family probably thinks your dead. Good news, you get a lot of miles!*
"Air China 981, you're on your own now, I can't keep doing this." Air China 981- ok taxi to the november
@@ajandrewy.1024 yeah, "Air China 981, I'm getting retired tomorrow. It's been wonderful 32 years of service together."
Roger, porceedring tur gate, ai chyna 981.
Remember, remember, hold short on November...
- Air China 981 hold short of November
- Okay, hold short until november
This is golden
This would be genuinely confusing if the current date and time is Oct 31st, 23:50.
This is the comment I was looking for; thank you very much! (lmfao)
Atc: Air China 981 hold short of India
Air China: roger hold short of India
Also Air China:*takes off on the taxiway to India*
Dude you crack me up😂
When I was in college I worked at JFK for 2 summers as a part-time job as a ramp worker running the cargo loader. No exaggeration, there was a near collision every single day at JFK. Always the same exact thing, one plane landing as another was crossing the runway or the previous plane was still on the runway and hadn’t cleared onto a taxiway. It’s a miracle there aren’t accidents. My hats off to ATC and to you pilots. JFK was an extremely busy airport from 13:00-22:00.
Back in about 1990 I was helping tutor some ground School students and I told them that if they got confused the most important thing to do when talking to air traffic control is tell them "who you are, where you are, and what you intend to do".
Which led to one poor foreign student who my buddy had signed off to solo telling the tower "My name is Prashime, I am in an airplane, and I wish to land"
The kid was actually a pretty good pilot, but the speaking English thing was really throwing him a curve for a while.
LMAO!!! LMAO MORE!!!
@@MrClevet3 WELL AT LEAST HE DID'NT LIE!!!!!!! JUST MISSED A FEW FACTS, BUT, ILL BET THEY ALL HAD SOME FUN UP IN THE TOWER!
@@SWC44 LMAO!
I wouldnt even think about piloting in a country that doesn't speak the language i primarily use in their atc. What did he expect?
Hope he got there and it just became a fun story. I mean, he wasn't wrong, I guess!,
To my ears, the confusion in the Air France incident was because the AF pilot asked a question and the ATC thought he made a statement. When he said "Gate 8 is available for us?" he was asking the tower if it was available. His "okay..." at the end sounded less like frustration and more like he was really confused why the tower was going off on him for asking a question.
Katherine Spezia Exactly !
I don't think so.
His "okay..." was more like "he's one of THOSE yanks".
Anyway, there was no confusion, the ATC acted like a real jerk, regardless of whether the AF pilot had uttered a statement or a question.
An ATC can't get triggered by such harmless things, simple as that. If it were up to me, that guy would've been instantly fired (nothing personal, it's just that people with a short fuse aren't ATC material in my book).
That's what Donald Trump would say. Just following his president's orders.
"What's gate are you waiting for"
"Gate 8"
"I don't need *you* to tell *me* what I can see and you can't!"
"ok......"
@@hardcard254 While you are correct that guy probably shouldn't be directing air traffic (at least as often, we all know they're overworked), I believe Katherine is correct in her assessment of the linguistic difference that sparked the misunderstanding, length of ATC's fuse notwithstanding. It is a result of basic translation mistakes, words can end up out of order because English is structured differently to French. Same reason acronyms using the same letters for the same words can end up out of order in different languages.
Glad you pointed out how ATC often speaks too fast even for an American, English speaker. Can't imagine how hard that must be for these foreign pilots . Especially at a place like JFK, where patience is on short supply.
Stupid that they do. I don't care how busy you are, it's very unsafe and poor procedure to speak anyway but the most clear and understandable when you're supposed to be worried about vocal/communication safety. FAA should regulate to require slow speech upon request. Let pilots start harassing ATCs who do not speak very clearly and calmly; speed =/= beneficial to caution or safety, just max throughput at cost to safety. ATC wanting to be cattle auctioneers because they're unhappy with their life in a box.
Some people just talk fast. English is not my mother tongue yet some native speakers think I speak too fast.
WELL SAID!@@unclebounce1495
"Which way would you like us to face."
"Well forward, cause if you're flying facing the passengers they get concerned."
I don't know why but I spent at least 2 mins solid laughing after reading this.
Kennedy Steve
@@adde9506 yes!! I LOVE listening to him!!
@@nikpalagaming8610 yes he did. The old tapes are hilarious tho.
That's as old as the hills on grandma's chest!!! lol
I'm British, when I watch American movies I have the subtitles on. Actors are supposed to be voice trained to be clearly understood.
These JFK Air Traffic Controllers need voice training. Mostly they need to talk normally and...matter-of-fact...without any annoyance and be understanding to foreign pilots.
I like the Air France pilots tone when he says ok; you can hear his eyes roll. Lol
Yep, the unspoken yet audible "...Americans."
Souppperrr lol
wow so mean ATC not right to be mean
absolute disgust haha
Hello from Aruba
Co-pilot :- can you please retract the landing gear?
Kelsey :- Landing gear, coming up!
Kelsey:- Make sure you keep the blue side up!
Co-pilot and Kelsey is one and the same person.👍
Maybe kelsey is also the plane all along
@@ngd931 but he is also the airport
omg, laughed really hard on this one 😂
"Expectation bias" - now I know what it is that I've had to contend with for years. Somebody will ask me something, I respond distinctly, and they hear whatever they were expecting. So very annoying, especially when a minute later they ask me the same question.
Air France pilot: “It’s a good thing he doesn’t know how much I hate his guts.”
Elaine: “It’s a good thing you don’t know how much he hates your guts.”
😂😂👍🏼
I watched Airplane! at least 100 tines. Haven’t seen it for decades but instantly recognized that quote.
@@MrJeffcoley1 o0
gotta love flying high
Surely you can’t be serious?🧐
As a "Non-Pilot," it seems like communications between Pilots and ATC can be a bit overwhelming at times (to say the least)!!! My Lord, they speak fast and REALLY don't like to repeat themselves!!!!
you get used to it, when I was in the Army I wound up as a radio operator in a combat brigade headquarters, when we would go to the field I would spend 8-12 hours at the radio receiving radio traffic, sending out radio traffic, and it seemed overwhelming at first, but after a few days it was just routine.
i was a pilot , you also have static and cracle in the head set! than some of the atc think they are god!! and treat you like crap!!
i declared emergency no power and was told to go around!! this is very rear to be so bad miss understood! but 3 time he told me to go around and for the commercial plane to take off!! it was the pilots on the ground that said they would set till i was down,
ATC are mostly sucks
Especially somewhere so busy like jfk, to ATC it's everyday stuff, they are expert in it and get annoyed by pilots who need clear answers
“contact Tracon @128.5” A ground controller could say that 500 times a day in his handoff. At some point there is a disconnect because your mind and your tongue.
16:20 yes, the tone of that "ok" directly implied lots of swearing :D
First time I've heard a pilot dying inside from his voice :D
Great video! Now, I understand that the pilot of Air China 981 can understand and speak English perfectly despite what people may say. Thanks for correcting the pilot's reputation.
This stuff always reminds me of that old email that went around years ago between ATC and a fighter pilot. The story goes, the fighter pilot calling ATC for a priority landing because his single-engine jet fighter was running "a bit peaked." ATC told the fighter jock that he was number two behind a B-52 that had one engine shut down. "Ah," the pilot remarked, "the dreaded seven-engine approach!"
Reminds of the old joke.
BA pilot arrive at Frankfurt and is a bit hesitant in his taxiing.
German controller, slightly annoyed: "Have you never been to Frankfurt before?"
BA Pilot, reponding with a calm voice: "Yes. Twice in 1944, but I didn't land"
LMAO!!! Yeah. Really OLD joke but still good. I'll have to update that for my Iraqi veteran friend.
also the, "I am a German pilot, flying for a German airline at an airport in Germany. Why must I speak English here?"
*in a British accent* "Because you lost both bloody wars".
Have you ever been to Dresden? Yes but it was at night and only a flying visit 😉😊
Seems like WW2 jokes are still a big thing for non germans😂
@@BerryMyDick
And?
Next time Kelsey lands, he’s gonna hear...
“Saw your video...slow to 160, go around, land 4L instead of 4R and hold mike-alpha and expect November and gate 4 when I feel like it.”
Kelsey: Ok. Requesting fly by?
😂🤣
Anyone else hear Harold Faltermeyer?
yeh hed deserve it on this occasion
I just love the tone on the resigned "Ok" of the Air France pilot. It's so perfect 😆
8:36 Especially when you come to Germany, because in Germany it is actually forbidden by law to make jokes on Flight radio or to talk about other things that have nothing to do with the current flight situation
Is the origin of the stereotype that Germans can't take jokes?
@@chaosXP3RT yes
Its interesting then having watched loads of the JFK interactions that the international carrier that gets the jokes and banter the most is Lufthansa.
@@LB1973 Maybe they have a lot of pent up joking from holding it in when in German airspace
I worked JFK as a ramp agent and they changed gears a lot on the ground much less in the air. We did international but if they were short handed, you'd have to do domestic loading and off loading. It's usually organized by a manager but sometimes we' d have to change duties suddenly. The coordination needed is amazing. Very busy.
I’m a Brazilian pilot and have been flying to the US since 1991. ( Started on B707, then B767, A330, as First Officer, and then as Captain on A320, and back to B767 ) Mostly To MIA, ORL,JFK,IAD ,VCV, and BOS. The US Controllers always did an excellent job when we had any kind of issues . ( heavy weather, sick passenger on board needing a special assistance, going back to the gate due to technical problems, and so on) When they realized that you are trying to do your best, they will help you like no others in the world. But as soon as they have a clue that you are trying to trick them ...you’re on you’re one. I have to say that once we heard an British pilot ( not from BA , by the way) having some communication misunderstanding , asked an JFK controller :
“ Sir ! Could you Please Speak English ...” We laugh out loud the whole approach !!!
One advice that I would like to point out is the good old school : PREPARE YOURSELF ! Study and KNOW your route, TMA Areas, all the Jeppesen Plates , SIDs STARs, IAL, ILS. the taxi ways, etc, all in advance ! Do your home work . Take a good look at the charts your going to use in the approach, and pay attention to the instructions !!! If you didn’t understand, or it didn’t make sense to you : ask them to SAY AGAIN . This is the best way to avoid embarrassing yourself and you’re Airline.
And always. : “ Kepp the blue up !!” Happy Landings 47 CREW
What are you talking about? I realize this a 1 year old comment. But JFK controllers speak English as per industry standard.
@@matt59fire That was the joke, that the non BA British pilot couldn't follow so asked the American ATC to speak English.
@@matt59fire 😂 dude obviously you didn't get the joke...
Gustavo
Do you fly at QR ?
I Always did Exactly as U , we are Highly Qualified Professionals, aren't we ?
Abrazo Grande from Giancarlo Garlaschi.
QR Commander (Ret ).
@@lisaflores2016
There is no room for jokes when you are flying a heavy airliner in the middle of a thunderstorm , budy !
Fly safe !
With some of the controllers speaking as clear as a drunken sailor, they endanger air traffic
Yeah as do pilots who show up for duty inebriated. C'mon bruh, let's be fair. Retired controller/private multi-engine rated pilot.
In 1996 i was at a 737 plane entrance boarding, a pilot reaking of alchohol pushed me aside in a hurry to get in to the flight deck. I went to my seat while relizing what had just happened and not knowing what to do. On departure we had the steepest takeoff imaginable, i thought for sure we would stall. We made it to the destination where I vowed never again to stay on a flight with a drunk at the controls. The more i learn and see in life, the less i trust people to do quality driving or flying. Bring on the robo-taxis for me. God help us...
Best end to a pissing contest I ever heard was:
ATC: How would you like a hold?
Pilot: How would you like a comm failure?
That ended their jabs.
What does a comm failure mean?
@@JimS870 it means he will pretend his radio communications failed by just turning it off, making a fake emergency so he can forget the hold that atc wants him to do
LMAO!!! As a retired controller and private multi-engine rated pilot, I sooo hope that's a true story!
A great example of very poor air traffic control. ......
It should not be a "pissing contest" as you juvenile state...
Grow up....
@whybother now A professional Controller and Pilot environment should not be
a pissing contest.
A safe landing starts from the top of descent .
When some Controller wants to unstabilizing it on final approach because of their own poor Controller sequencing .
That Controller needs retraining.
JFK hasn't got the best of reputations. ......except for playing "pissing games".
I’ve been watching your videos for a while now. You’re doing a great job. My son wants to become a pilot too, I’ll definitely recommend your channel to him. (He’s only 9 years old but he’s already flown twice in a real simulator). Keep up the good work, sir!
I'm an LA chopper pilot and english as second language students flock here for training like crazy. It's quite hilarious listening to them pretty consistently. A part of me feels bad but you cant fuck around when it comes to safety and communication
"English"
@@Dunning.Kruger Yes
I once had the opportunity to address a class of foreign students. Stressing the importance of communications and understanding, one student responded with "We don't want to make controllers mad by asking them to say again". I told him/them when asked, "It's our job to 'say again' as often as necessary to get the message across" and encouraged them to call the tower should they encounter a controller not being professional. Shortly afterwards, an obviously elated student proudly exclaimed after his first solo, "I love you!" as part of his request to taxi back to his FBO. lmao I know bcoz I was in the tower when he said it.
There is a small regional airport in one of our suburbs where a lot of chinese piolets train -- was told by a couple different pilots they come here without knowing much, if any, english - are arrogant about learning and was told that in chinese air space, they pretty much refuse to speak english - would this be true? Or normal to speak chinese if both pilot and control in china?
@@JM-ig4ed its common for another language to be spoken if the pilot and controller both speak the same. A few of my friends have said it happens a lot around Europe.
In NY Center radar, I made sure my trainees understood to speak slower, because it will take much more time, to repeat the transmission 2 or 3 more times...and time at “rushhour” is valuable...! Just a history insight back in the 80’s
Much rather spend 5 more seconds on a first delivery than 15 repeating it several times.
Finally... a comrade who gets it. Were you PATCO or NATCA? I was both and now happily retired.
@@MrClevet3 I was Patco, in 1968, I did as much as the Patco org wanted, but, after awhile, the head of Patco was in over his head. but I also was advocating a different approach than the strike..so, I went to work for 8.5 more yrs and then retired...
@@MrClevet3 enjoy your retirement...!
@@jackpijjin4088 DITTO
"No, it´s not! They lied to you!" -killed me
10:26 I thinks it's mostly an accent thing. Americans in the Midwest and East Coast tend to speak faster than Americans from down South or out West.
Although I can sympathize with the Chinese pilot. I tried to learn French. Native French speakers talk so fast. It's hard for me to understand.
Are they as smug as we Americans? BTW... "we" not a play on words. lmao
Chinese people speak at the speed of light.
@@Ballsackgamin Not in English.
There's also an assumption that what sounds totally different to an English speaker/listener also sounds totally different to a foreigner. If you have ever tried to speak Chinese, you know that what sounds near identical to you, are totally different to a Chinese person, and it's not just about 'tone'. For an English person listening to a foreigner attempting English, they can make huge mistakes and we could usually still understand; but that it absolutely not true in the other direction....if a non-Chinese person hears a word that is even slightly incorrect, it becomes totally unintelligible - there seems to be very little scope for error in Chinese.
Still, you'd have thought they would have 'learned' that in their training, so perhaps it is simply confirmation bias, or indeed accent (I know there are some US accents that I cannot understand (I'm English)).
People in the Mid West speak slow, and people in the South speak fast.
As a french guy, when i'm tired, lazy or in a rush and speaking english or other languages, it happens that i ask something by an affirmative formed sentence because i've forgotten to turn it into a proper formed question. Usually, i realize my mistake but it's too late. It seems to me, the french pilot did the same...
Yes! it was a "lost in translation" thing. I've heard many french people talk like that, but since I'm very perceptive with languages (and I did study 2 years of French, 2 years of German and 2 years of Spanish), I can easily tell that's not exactly what they mean in English. They're actually querying, but it seems like they are _telling_ you in the affirmative! So, true, I think that's exactly what happened here!
@@747-pilot Danke/ Merci 747-pilot. Ich habe auch eins jahre Deutsch studeren (in 1996 ins Sudafrika) Don't French, Spanish, Potuegese and Latin all belong to the same language - group?
like Zulu, Xhosa and Swazi. (I'm trying to study French, but all the Universities or higher institutions are close. So it is very difficult...)
I doubt this is only a "lost in translation" situation. In French the situation is more complex, a question can be asked like in English as "Are you ill?" or as "You are ill?" with the intonation being that of a question. While this is done sometimes in English too, in French it is the most used way of asking a question, even if every teacher would tell you that it is just lazy colloquial speech and should not be done in important/official talk.
The big problem with it is visible in the video. You don't know until the end of the sentence if it was meant as a question or not, as the intonation of a question is done through the end of a sentence. Add confirmation bias or in this case a foreign language where it is not usual to ask questions that way, and you get these misunderstandings, just not hearing the intonation at the end. The bad audio transmission quality doesn't help either. Listening to the pilot multiple times I hear it as a question sometimes, sometimes as a statement.
Which is quite ironic because the English inversion to ask a question is not only the correct way in French too, but is also already a lazy variant in French. The French have an even more elaborate way of asking a question which eliminates all misunderstandings by using specific question words "Est-ce que...?" (similar to "why..." in English, just for general questions).
So if this pilot really asked it as a question, then he used the most lazy variant of asking a question available in French. Therefore I would argue that it is not (only) a problem of translation, but also a problem of not focusing on a clear language. In French he would probably be understood, but still get scolded for not using unambiguous language in an essential setting. While I can understand someone being tired or distracted or exhausted, this is more a mindset thing, being in colloquial "chatty" mode than it being a question of speaking a foreign language or being too exhausted. While that way of speaking can be a question in French, in a professional setting, where precision of language is required, it would probably never be used.
@@davidvanniekerk356 Yes, they are indeed related, but I did find French the most difficult of them all. All the different sentences appear to be "merged" into one sentence, and it can be very diffcult to figure out the context of what is being said. It's easy on paper, but the spoken enunciation is difficult to understand. Oddly enough, I found Spanish and German fairly easy!
Ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsche, aber ich habe viele vergessen. Das war viele jahre vor! (since it was an "immersion type" learning environment I"ve not forgotten everything!)
@@denidale4701 The ATC should remain professional himself though and not be a pissy little bitch about it.
“Settle down captain happy” is probably the number one best ATC pilot conversation ever beyond the LA speed story!
Who is Cptn Happy lol?!
@@fsg7710
A Delta pilot who had a bad day.
It happened in Atlanta. A Controller asked the Delta pilot to do something and for some odd reason the Delta Pilot got offended and started bitching out loud on the comms.
Another pilot (Who had enough) basically responded "Settle down Captain Happy!"
@@cripplehawk I remember that one, I think it was on one of those "Kennedy Steve" videos, classic!
@@cripplehawk i need the link
@@cripplehawk Apparently actually a fake (or RP'd) clip from a flight sim channel, but did get reviewed by 74G (and no doubt elsewhere) as if real.
Really like the explanation of 'expectation bias' and it impact on what you think you hear. I have been teaching about this problem for year in coaching canoeing and the coach not truly listening to the clients answers. Really useful way of labelling it. Thank you.
That’s Kennedy Steve. He’s retired now but he was brilliant. Can’t miss his voice. Fly safe Kelsey! Uraaaah!
Did you work with the guy?
@@matty6848 Hi there. No I did not. My ex was a fighter pilot and then commercial pilot and use to tell me all about him. And I have listened to him on the job via (you tube) and read about him. IMO he knew his stuff. I am a retired Marine and really like the get your sh*t squared away attitude. JFK IMO is crazy busy as is LaGuardia. Flown into both. Did you know him? 😎😃
Air China ATC is not Kennedy Steve as far as I can tell. This guy has southern twang and I have never heard that from Kenn Steve... His voice may have changed but I doubt that much. Tim F NZL
@Cindy Tartt On top of that KS is just sarcastic and does the odd pun. I have never heard him confrontational... so this is clearly some other guy. I am sure all tower conversations are reviewed either for cause or randomly and this chap is going beyond what KS would do. Chinese airlines have had some spectacular crashes outside PRC and presumably a few inside which have been hushed up. When you listen to this it is surprising that there have not been more. Tim F
@@lmae989 no I never knew him either but he sounds like a interesting guy. I’ll have to keep a look out for him on UA-cam and social media👍
True story, overhead as a passenger behind specified large plane:
ATC: "hold short runway ##",
Plane: "ok, cleared for runway ##",
ATC: "NO STOP STOP HOLD SHORT HOLD SHORT STOP STOP STOP",
Plane: "what? you said cleared for runway ##"
ATC: "no, i said hold short"
me, looking out the window, seeing a plane landing on the runway.
*sweating profusely*
Sounds like a code Brown.
Sounds like expectation bias 🤔
My all time favorite radio exchange:
"hot mic, hot mic"
"This is Hot Mike, send it."
Awww poor chinese pilot I feel so sorry for him :( from his voice he felt like a very nice guy and was probably very intimidated.
I felt the same way.
I'm not sure whether I feel worse for the pilot or the passengers for how much danger they were potentially in without knowing. If I were on that flight I'd probably get cold chills finding out how rough the communication was.
The default setting for most New Yorkers is rude!!!
probably flustered out of his mind
Kelsey, thanks so much for your channel. Flying has been a dream all my life and listening to flying speak broken down like you do is great. Thanks again and please don't EVER listen to ANY negativity or bad comments. Pleae don't stop doing your great videos.
Kelsey making fun of the negative comments + false claims is some of his best video work! He has comedic skills + plenty of confidence for certain to brush it all off.
This episode seems to be a segue to a "Hollywood vs. Reality: Pushing Tin" episode. Very entertaining with something to takeaway, Kelsey.
Bryan Dorr Lol, exacty🤣 I was thinking the same thing!
Who needs comedians when you have this?
If I could be Kevin Hart funny I could really find a strong niche 😂
@@brucemaliga791 Search " Kennedy Steve " on UA-cam.
@@74gear you and Bryan Turner need to do some vids together, if you haven’t already.
I wish Bill Burr would do some more air travel jokes.
@@andytaylor1588 “Why you going to Indianapolis, Bill?”
So hilarious. You just have such a great delivery when dealing with this kind of back and forth. So well done. LMAO. Cheers and keep up the great work.
I really liked this video. Kelsey did a great job detailing things out. Like using the charts, which I understand a bit being a simmer, to help make it easier to understand. Real interesting stuff. Great job man!!!
I'm a GA pilot who has been flying GA airplanes for 50 years since I soloed at age 16 ten days after Buzz Aldrin wore the first Omega Speedmaster on the lunar surface. I'm also a lawyer who mostly practices Workers' compensation law when people get injured on the job. I can say this, there is not much of a personality difference between ATC controllers and Workers' compensation judges. They come in all types with similar ego's as well. I've actually been confused a few times and said "Roger" to a judge and "yes Judge" to a controller.
ATC: Air China 981, cleared for pushback
Air China 981: Roger, cleared to Japan
Thing is, they probably were. Not likely Japan.. but before they called for push and start they likely heard something like.
Air China 982 cleared to Beijing via the GREKI SIX departure of 04L, flight plan route. Departure 135.9. Squawk 4747.
@@Bartonovich52 Missed the joke 🤦♂️
What joke?
You’re basically just stating the obvious of what happens all the time.
Dial up clearance delivery on Live ATC for any major airport and listen to planes that don’t even have their passengers on board yet getting cleared to their destination.
@@Bartonovich52 Ya. I missed the joke too. Try again.
@@Bartonovich52 that is nice to be cleared the whole way. Can drive as you want and when you want on the taxi way since they are cleared all the way.
glad you brought up the issue with having to juggle ground and gate frequencies. im no pilot but I served in the army and we had a similar struggle. jumping between channels in the heat of an intense moment, like landing a plane or a fire fight.
I always thought switching frequencies just before landing was a bit crazy. Pilots have a Lot to do before arriving at an airport.
The coronavirus makes me watch all kinds of shit I didn't think I need to know in my life....but now I'm enjoying it :D
Same lol
Same like I just got to watch planes
You’re having to watch a lot of videos because leftist governments have locked you up in home incarceration.😢
Traffic controller: what's your status
Pilot: Nihao
Or “bonjour” 😂
@@Sergio-fu7mv 😂😂😂 French still understand English as they are close to Brits.
Hey 74Gear, as an approach controller, I enjoy your explanations and humor. The whole thing with JFK ATC to me is; they have too much attitude. I get it, it's busy. But to pull a 747 off the approach for a few knots airspeed is bordering on negligence. Where is it going to fit into the sequence again? Had she just created a bigger problem? Did you know that any ATC assigned speed can be flown plus or minus 10? If assigned 180, a pilot can fly 170 or 190 and there's a huge difference between the 2 when you're sequencing aircraft, trust me. I know when someone has taken my 160 assignment and reduced to 150! The Speedbird guy had a right to be a little miffed, he's off a long flight, 300 plus passengers etc and I know that their company does require 160 knots at the FAF. The controller was obviously trying to create space behind him, and the best way is to run an extra mile or so spacing with the following traffic and let it close up on final. Assigning Speedbird 160 or greater and citing the trailing traffic might get more cooperation. If you're running 4 miles behind a heavy 5 miles from the runway and need to keep it to the ground, it won't work.
It's great when professional controllers like you make comments! I respect your ATC abilities immensely! Noticed a few controllers being flippant with foreign pilots whose command of English is less than stellar. Some controllers might benefit from a bit more training on how to deal with these challenging situations diplomatically. It's got to be
frustrating when time is of the essence + effective communication isn't happening. Some of the pilots need to improve their English proficiency. I thought they had to take an English proficiency test? A friend is becoming a certified instructor for that. Don't all countries require the test, or only those who fly for U.S. airlines who need to be tested?
Great explanation, Thanks
The point is, someone's going around if he cannot maintain that speed. As Kelsey mentioned, it was nowhere near an unreasonable request for a 747 to hold 180 til 5DME. Pull the offender out and he will get more cooperative later. Yanking the guy behind due to no fault of his own? That is not the right call. Not sure where you practice your craft but JFK is consistently jamming 10 pounds of crap into a two landing runway bag. As N90 is always short handed you are welcome to give it a try.
100% on the attitude. not an ideal thing when you are dealing with thousands of ppl's lives
I still think it's nuts JFK have pilots communicate with ramp and atc at the same time. I think Dublin does it took it's a nightmare.
Kelsey, I’m hooked! I don’t know anything about aviation but I find you video very interesting and informative. Keep it up!
Hi Kelsey! Your vids are seriously addicting, thanks for the amazing content.
Tower: "Seven Four Golf go around"
74G: "Why?"
Tower: "Cause I said so"
74G un-keys mic ands starts swearing in French.
It’s best practice to immediately state the reason. If you get to the next transmission you never say “because I said so”.
Ummmmm, he is American, not french
they were clearly having a conversation together ... pilot should have held the mic on while swearing about the cow in the tower then simply finish with whoops mic was still on.
@@madhavanramesan4770 *British
@@madhavanramesan4770 British
Having listened in to approach and tower frequencies at YVR, I have heard the odd funny banter between both parties. With the tower/ approach (many years ago and late at night) requesting a faster speed of 180 and the aircraft requesting 160 or 170 . The tower/approach came back with “SOLD, 160 (or 170 knots)” done very quickly, professionally and comically. The briefly chuckle on both mikes was great to hear. Despite YVR being a pretty busy airport typically, they can manage to handle traffic well and are not as short with pilot as the busier American hubs. Just a bit more friendly.
Auctioneers be like:
200 words per minute with gust up to 300.
I increase my speed to over 1,000 knots lol! (Flying in 1969 on a Concorde)
You really need a 3-person flight crew for these busy airports. Last-minute runway changes and taxi directions means you need those other frequencies queued up on standby and you can have a person getting gate clearance from ramp while the pilot monitoring is talking to tower or ground. You can easily go through 10 radio frequencies between approach and gate- especially for PRM/SOIAs when you have to monitor a second frequency.
I really don’t know how I got here but I’m so glad! This is fascinating! I’ve been binge watching your entire channel! Really great content!🖤✨
You just found the highest-rated meme in Chinese aviation community
That disappointed ‘ok’ from AF just made my whole day
Side note: Air China and Air France controller at Kennedy is the same dude.
Good ear.
Kennedy Steve by chance? Kinda sounds like him.
@@sergnoff94 I thought it was KS too. He's retired now, and it sure sounds there like he needed to.
@@karekarenz4713 Yeah, kinda does. OTOH, as jobs with a built-in glide-path to burnout goes, being responsible for thousands of lives at a time and yelling at pilots all day has to be right up there!
@@sergnoff94 No, this is not Kennedy Steve.
lol, these vids are great. love watching your live reaction to them as you play them back. Excellent explanations too.
My nephew is a pilot flying a small jet for executives in large corporation globally. I asked him what was the hardest part of his job, was it making the flight plan? He said, “No, a company does that for us and I just review it.” Was it communicating with the air traffic controllers around the world? “No” he said, “English is the universal language, except the French with their strong French accent is sometimes hard to understand and if ask them to repeat a couple times, they get irritated…. But truthfully, it’s hard just staying awake.”
When I was a flight coordinator of ground handling of our airline, I used to tell our operation staff to ask our pilots to make a request of the shortest runway to the arrival parking spot each time there were many short connection passengers and in most cases these pilots' request was accepted by the controller as long as the requested runway was available. Normally pilots don't know about ground handling situation without being specifically informed in advance and accept automatically what is told by the controller. Before I became a flight coordinator, it happened often that the longest runway to the spot was assigned by the controller and used by our pilots and we had lots of misconnection cases which consequently caused much financial damage to the company through useless expenses like hotel accommodations, meals, booking change fees that we could have avoided enough easily in many cases. At the airport where I was working for many years, the difference of time was 5 - 15 minutes according to each runway to choose and the ground traffic. For us even one minute of difference was really crucial to protect short connection passengers.
Sounds like a lot of pressure!
Sounds like ole Continental airlines before the merger, when I use to fly with them from east to west coast I always missed my connection to SAN out of Hou when they were redoing the runways and construction back in 06'-09'
I always love the way you explain your thinking / quite often it helps me to broaden my horizon about a specific situation = thanks a lot
I remember I took this plane from PEK to JFK in the summer of 2019 and that was the last plane that I took internationally before quarantine hit.
I was a C-130 pilot in the USAF when, after landing at Chicago O’Hare, the ground controller gave us a rapid string of taxi instructions. I just sat in stunned silence, until he patiently offered progressive taxi instructions as if I were a young child.
That's just condescending. Did you give it back once you had arrived at your gate?
But a civil aircraft pilot can't do that.
@@sukritmishra6676 Not it’s not. They’re used to dealing with familiarized pilots. If any new pilot to an airport is given 5 taxiways rapid fire they won’t remember. Good pilots know when to say “Say again” or “unfamiliar and I need a progressive taxi”.
No not a young child. Hopefully his delivery/phraseology effected successful communication of his instruction(s). Anything else implied or otherwise, would be reflective of his lack of professionalism.
@@MrClevet3 Not unprofessional, but like the exasperation of a teacher going through an entire explanation again because the student didn’t get it the first time.
I've been addicted to ATC videos for months, love to see your perspective on them. Awesome video!
Love all your vids - kudos. Thank you.
Just discovered your channel. Fascinating videos!
Hey Kelsey I’m going to flight school and I just want to say thank you, your videos pushed me to do something I’ve always wanted to do
"Ok and you still haven't answered my question so whenever you get around to that that'd be great" that annoying tone though
To be honest.. i would be pretty anyed in that situation also
Almost reminded me of office space.
He started it though! haha...
It was an annoyed tone, not an annoying one. Personally, I loved her passive-aggressive way of telling that guy that he was being an idiot and wasting everyone's time.
It's the tone of a woman stuck in "argue mode" rather than "problem solve mode"
Your work is fantastic. Thank you.
I love how you are so fair and diplomatic. You’re amazing!
While operating a B727 freighter at night out of the cargo complex at JFK some years ago I received a clearance like, "Cleared to cross 31L then left on Alpha further routing in about a minute." The clearance was read back and as we crossed 31L the ground controller issued the following clearance : "Cross Alpha onto the ramp, do a 180 and hold short of Alpha". We acknowledged but he felt the need to explain.: "We have a Chinese 747 coming around the corner in a minute that hasn't talked to anyone since he was on Approach Control. We think we know where he is going but foe now just hold short of Alpha." Sure enough, a few moments later this huge 747 comes around the corner with every exterior light ablaze and not talking to anyone.
Tiggers DAD whattheeeeeeee😳
I wonder if this sort of thing happens because they know any sort of complex communication will just make everything more confusing.
Tiggers DAD Tenerife waiting to happen !!
This reminded me of the day back in the early 1970s, when a 747 was picked up on radar heading for Heathrow (London), from a direction not on any flightpath.
When ATC could not make contact, fearing a electrical or mechanical failure on the aircraft, the airport went to full emergency, ceasing all departures and putting about 30 incoming flights into a holding pattern. Fire trucks lined both runways and ambulances were called to the airport.
The fully loaded 747 made a normal landing, stopped at the end of the runway, the door opened and the pilot stood at the opened door scratching his head and looking puzzled.
When security arrived and managed to find a portable ramp to board, one of the passengers acted as translator and told them that the flight crew did not contact ATC because none of them spoke or understood a single word of English.
The captain could not believe his eyes when he saw the size and complexity of Heathrow. The newly formed African airline were immediately banned from landing in the UK or flying across UK controlled airspace.
Although that one was the tip of the iceberg, ATC regularly had communication problems with African flights in those days.
@@wilsjane but how did they manage to get ahold of a 747 in the first place?
Only the French can make the "ok" sound just like "FU" 🤣
Just imagine the BO in that cockpit though.
Try speaking North American French in Paris if you want to see eyes roll ! Such an insult ! In Canada, we talk about "la fin de semaine", while Parisians call it "le weekend". Ya just can't win.
I just imagine Pam from Archer when she goes "okay" when somebody is acting like a little shit.
Ok Control calling Pan Pan Pan Pan..
I need next available runway.. 🤣
@@iangray7410 That's not French you speak in Canada, "mon ami", it is Québécois.
I did medical claims over the phone for a huge insurance company. Learning corruption from the inside was enough to run me out- but the inbound calls into us shifted to offshore agents within about 2 years. A queue of young Indian and Malaysian kids attempting to reconcile medical jargon in severe broken english was the most intolerable hell ive experienced.
I completely understand the uncontrolled frustration of the controller.
I love your thread. Very informative . Great Job as always.
JFK controller didn't use the standard phraseology and that also confused Chinese pilots.
Indeed!
Also because they probably weren't expecting anything else.
-another Hans
Standard phraseology in the US... things we can only dream about! 🙄
So.. english?
@@ThatPianoNoob"ramp" is not standard phraseology. "apron" is. I understand the confusion for international pilots.
NEED GOOD OL KENNEDY STEVE BACK, WHAT A GOOD OLD FASHIONED BB BREAKER, BUT NICE!
NONE BETTER!
@@robertl.fallin7062 HE WAS SO QUICK AND WITTY! A TRUE PLEASURE AND A PRO, 1ST TIME I HEARD HIM, HE WAS EXPLAINING SOMETHING TO A I BELIEVE A CHINESE CAPT, WITH A WICKED ACCENT, STEVE WAS NICE TO CALL I THINK A 727, LOOK FOR THE "BIG ORANGE PUMPKIN WITH WINGS" AS 5 TIMES NORMAL DID NOT SINK IN, AND A WISECRACK FROM SEEMS LIKE 10 OTHER PILOTS ON ALL TAXIWAYS, WITH THERE LAUGHTER AND WISECRACKS, GOOD OLD STEVE MADE A NEW FRIEND, AND ALL WERE SAFE!!!!!!! PURE CLASS!
I’m really enjoying these videos. Well done, sir.
Thank you for sharing.
As an Air Traffic Controller in the center environment (and an instrument rated private pilot), I think you had a great description of what occurred in the clips. The one with Air China 981.... English is the language of aviation to those countries that subscribe to ICAO. And while China theoretically subscribes to ICAO, I am sure that English is not used the same in China as it is other places. Therefore, there is a really good chance that the pilot's possibly had translation issues. I have personally seen similar issues with Mexican pilots who have mistaken clearances despite the pilot responding in English.
this is kind of an outdated take on Chinese English standards. many Chinese speak English, especially since the advent of the internet age. most likely an older pilot would have more trouble than anyone 30 or younger
Dude it’s 2022 now, more Chinese speaks proper English than Americans, how outdated and backward your ancient thinking is lol.
@@VeggieRice But that incident with CA981 probably took place 10-15 years ago since the video has floating around forever. That pilot would definitely be well over 30 now.
I used to train pilots for air china and shanghai in the US. I can confirm they didn't understand ATC even after graduating..
I can speak English quite well , but when i visit US the first and only time , i had issues to understand a guy behind a counter in McDonalds it was so embarrassing 🤦♂️ Yeah and I don't understand those ATC guys in videos either 😅 They speak so freaking fast...and mumble...
@@terrabiker Imagine me taking 3 years of French in highschool, 3 years in University, going to Belgium and being lost as what was being said. At least I could read the signs, lol. Native speakers of a language can speak so fast sometimes, hard to follow.
As a native speaker I can't always understand ATC (although I'm not a pilot). The pilot may have only been able to catch a few key words in there.
It's possible he may not have realized he was being asked a question and not an instruction since the vocabulary is a bit different to the usual ATC dialogue. If he learned English specifically for flying, he's probably more familiar with ATC than regular conversation; once he was told to hold he immediately did so.
@@drd675 I remember feeling really confident about my skills in a Spanish class. Then we did an exercise trying to listen to a native speaker and I felt like an idiot
It made me a bit nervous! A bit scary, glad the pilot understood at last!
Thank you for a great video
Great information Kelsey!
That’s a great video, Kelsey! Look forward to more funny ATC vs Pilots )) thanks!
This video is FASCINATING! Thank you for sharing the information!
Excellent video. Your comments are very wise, thank you for those!
Always enjoy the ATC/Pilot chats....even better when you have a REAL pilot translating/laughing with you. LOL
" Expectational bias "
I learned something today . A light in the memory bank has just lit .
If you're looking for something fascinating to learn about, there are dozens of cognitive biases that we have that you might not even be aware of. It can be an interesting thing to learn about them and it will shed some light on how you think and perceive the world.
Expectation bias. You expected there to be an "-al" suffix there to form an explicit adjective, but it was actually an attributive use of the root noun. :)
Love your explanation of expectation bias.
Brilliant stuff always - ATC vs pilot stuff is so entertaining - as a former private pilot I love it all
ATC: "NO, that was a question. Have the ramp people cleared you into the gate?"
Pilot: Roger to the gate Air China 981
"God dammit Jian-Yang!!!!"
It's Li Xi Ping now. 😆
Ha ha nice SV reference! This killed me :)
Nobody:
ATC: asks question
Pilot: *does the question*
You're pretty sharp my friend, i like how you put all this stuff in lamens terms and make it so a polock like me can understand it. I just found your channel yesterday cuz i watch a lot of air disaster vids do you tube suggested you to me and i found myself binge watching. You have any footage of you flying a 747? Id like to see you at work
8:00 Actually, you can hear the pilot immediately laugh at ATC's joke at 5:44
I love ATC videos, and now I’m glad to see you do one. You add more to them and make them better!!!
thats the point of doing these, to help people understand more of whats going on.
@@74gear Great to get the commentary on it instead of just reading the comments on what everyone else thought of it.
@@74gear Kelsey you are awesome! Thank you for all you teach & do for safety in aviation!
Very entertaining for listening, but concerning that the Chinese pilot doesn’t seem to be able to communicate in English well enough .
No its a tactic to skip the line and get into ramp early.
@@AaronShenghao and many of Air China’s pilots have a very hard time with English. I’ve watched them blow hold shorts on active runways, get lost on taxiways, and I could go on but it’s not just a tactic.
I'd rather believe the expert (Kelsey) and say it's confirmation-bios
We shouldn't be letting air china land here anyways.
Chinese pilots flying in China always communicate in Mandarin with ATC and are not required to learn English: a domestic airline pilot likely can't speak English at all.
It's been like this for decades until recently the CAAC announced that Chinese airspace would adopt the use of English further.
this is awesome stuff; thank you
More of these please this was absolutely great... more confrontation stuff. :D
As a Brit who’s done his fair share of flying in the US, i often wonder if Elvis gotten himself a job working ATC
Hahahaha so true
European flying in Florida, I totally agree!
@Frank Silvers thanks for clearing that up! If you live anywhere in Europe, you are European. In this context it doesn't really matter where you live in Europe... I don't understand why you took the time to make this comment.
@Frank Silvers it is about non- US pilots flying in the US, about understanding ATC. Do I really have to explain this to you?
@Frank Silvers You watched the video, right?