The BIG Mistake Most RVers Make While Towing
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- Опубліковано 4 тра 2024
- RV dealerships and truck manufacturers LOVE to boast about towing capacity numbers - but when we're talking about RVs most users will run out of vehicle payload well before they get near the towing capacity of their vehicle. Let's discuss the difference between the two and why as RVers, we should be calculating our payload before focusing on our towing capacity.
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The ESSENTIAL RV Number No One's Talking About: Payload VS Towing Capacity, Why Payload Matters More Than Towing Capacity For RVers, The RV Number You Can’t Ignore (But Probably Have Been!) Payload VS Towing Capacity, The MOST Overlooked Number In The RV Industry: Payload vs Towing Capacity, What Can you ACTUALLY Tow? Payload VS Towing Capacity for RVers, Which RV Can I (SAFELY) Tow, Which RV Can My Truck SAFELY Tow, Why Payload Capacity Is MORE Imporant Than Towing Capacity For RVers, Most RVers Focus On the WRONG Thing When Choosing an RV, The BIG Mistake Most RVers Make, The Essential RV Item NO ONE Is Talking About,
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I’d show this to my wife if I thought it would change her mind. She consistently wants to bring our entire house on vacation.
Laughing with you brother😂😂😂
I'll say this bro, 99% of people towing or driving an RV down the road today are overweight from the get go...starting with the fact that unless you own a "minimalist" trailer or RV, most everything built today has every accessory and luxury built in and by the time theyre done, they only give you barely no more that 1200lbs for your stuff if you're lucky!. So by the time you fill your 120gal fresh water tank, you now have ONLY 240lbs available for other "stuff", I've been RVing since the very early 80s and I guarantee ya that 99% of RVers going down the road today are all overloaded 🤷♂️🤣
You're not alone - it'd be really nice for these rigs to be OVERbuilt instead of "barely" built...
Me too!
amen. 😄👍
150 lb driver? I haven’t seen one of those since high school, and even they don’t exist anymore. 😂
A short Filipina girl who can't reach the pedals or see over the dash.
Same lel
I'm one such driver. Been 150 lbs since highschool. Now in my 40s and still 150. I don't eat out much so maybe that's all there is to it 🤷♂️
@@jasonharrison25
Eating out definitely contributes, but a sedentary lifestyle is probably more to blame. I didn’t start gaining weight until I got my first office job.
@@AFTER_MIDNITE yeah, I do building and equipment maintenance so I'm on my feet a lot. I'm sure it helps a ton
"But the salesman said ...." LOL! Great job with this vid.
Right?! Doing our best to help cure some ignorance on the topic
Keep preaching!! It’s been covered before but people still need to hear it. I commented on some UA-cam full-timers that were towing a fifth wheel toyhauler with a 3/4 ton diesel. They giggled at my polite inquiry as to their logic. That’s a disservice to their viewers.
Its really an uphill battle when both truck and rv dealers, as a generalization, aren't educating the customers on what they actually need.
The ditches are full of people that didn't pay attention to those numbers.
Unfortunately
Driving ability, more likely
One of the worst were the early 2500HDs with the Duramax and the Allison. The GVWR was 9200 lbs yet that truck in 4x4 crew cab configuration with the family, fuel and hitch could weigh 7500 lbs leaving a payload of only 1700 lbs; yet you would routinely see these things pulling huge 5th wheels with a 3 or 4,000 lb pin weight going down the road. Severely overloaded! The salesman would always say that diesel would pull anything but most had no clue about payload and weight ratings.
American trucks are strange in the way they have high towing capacities, big engines and very low payloads until you get up to 3500/F350 with dualies and up.
I guess this is because having a heavy leaf package in the rear will cause a stiff ride when empty, which is the standard condition for most American pickups.
In Australia we generally have mid-size pickups which tend to have a higher payload than American full-size pickups.
When we build them to go outback a lot of people get GVM upgrades which are basically upgraded suspension along with an engineer certificate increasing the payload & sometimes towing capacity.
We've definitely got an even bigger problem with clowns trying to tow big caravans with their little 2.8l or 3l mid-size pickups (utes) which are both shorter and thinner than your trucks, they also drive like idiots flooring it, trying to overtake road trains and end up losing control and getting squished.
Then they sell air bags and other bad ideas to compensate for overloading.
@@elliotkane4443, I have a 2008 regular cab 2x4 2500HD work truck with a payload of 3800 lbs. I have a 1900lb slide in and plenty left to tow my enclosed trailer.
not always true. as to sell more trucks the factory puts on “soft ride” springs. if favor of a softer ride on the pot holes of life.
the but of the truck sags a bit but you are with in the tow and weight limits.
The ford 1/2 ton has one of the highest payloads
I run a W990 with 53' stepdeck. Some of the most dangerous I see driving OTR. Are travel trailer drivers. RV also. They really need to do a trailer & rv endorsment.
Force the idiots to get training & education. Far to many, drove from home to work for 40 years. A whole 5 miles in a car. Think they are good safe drivers. They retire, purchase the biggest rig they can afford.
I see them everyday. Trailer or RV disentigrated on the side of the road, or in the road. Always ambulances and helicopters flying out the dead & injured.
Try to talk to them at the rest stop. Being nice attempting to convey to them. What they are doing wrong. Even though I am in my 60's. The 70-80+ year olds act like no kid knows more than they do.
I feel real sorry for their family members they kill. As well as the other innocent people on the road, that they destroy lives.
Every time i come upon one. I stay hyper alert. They are unpredictable. Drive in conditions they should not be. Swerve all over the place. On their phone. I see so many that are single vehicle crashes. They get off the road & it is all over for them. Trailer disenigrates, truck rolls numerous times. The carnage, is big blood pools, lots of disgareded bloody bandages.
See it every day. I am not for government regulation. Yet, if they were forced to take a class, and a driving portion. A lot of lives would be saved.
They scare the hell out of me daily. They have no clue about pulling a trailer and or setting things up right. Proper vehicle that can handle the weight. Anti sway bars, that can handle the weight & stress. Not areas you want to skip on. Yet they skimp. Between wind & road imperfections. They can end up going in any direction. Lots of single vehicles crashes. They do not seem to understand, get a wheel or wheels off the road. It is usually all over. Not good enough suspension, high center of gravity, rough ground, over loaded pulling vehicle. Chances are, no second chance.
There is definitely a difference between normal everyday driving and driving an RV or towing an RV trailer - they're not the same as small utility trailers for sure.
According to the industry association Go RVing, the _“median annual usage for current RV owners is roughly 20 days, while those intending to buy an RV plan to use it roughly 25 days per year.”_
It’s no wonder why drivers of RVs and travel trailers don’t drive safely. Most of them likely have very limited knowledge of the handling characteristics of their vehicles, and obviously have extremely minimal experience driving them.
You know what they say. When you get too old to drive your car, buy an RV and tow it.
@@mikemorgan5815 LMAO, that seems to be the case!
You should see them in the RV parks. 1 out of 10 has any idea where their trailer tires are, 1 out of 40 knows where their back corner is and maybe 1 out of 80 know where their roofline will hit a tree. At least it’s low speed damage, usually.
And 1 out of 2 will yell at their wife after they (the driver) have done something bone-headed.
Speed is a huge factor in tire failures. A heavily or overloaded trailer tire will build up a lot of heat from the sidewalls flexing as the tires rotate and once they’re hot it’s not long before you see sidewalls letting go and often a wreck as a result of it. Even if there’s no wreck the tire carcass flailing around at 80 mph will wipe off trailer fenders, plumbing drains and even floor sheathing. Keep the speeds down and things usually go a lot better.
Agreed
Yes. Just because your tire blew doesn't mean there won't be damage. And there will be. All of the items you mentioned.
Payload capacity is certainly over looked by many! Great video.
Thanks!
I went from towing an 18’ ski boat to a 22’ Godfrey sport toon, and the new boat is almost like towing a travel trailer!
Simple and to the point! Good video and safe travels 👍.
Thanks! 👍
Have a 27 foot bumper hitch trailer.
I own a F150 max tow and a G4500 cube, that cube van tows my camper like a dream!!!
Don’t ever trust the selling the camper!!
1500 vs 4500 - I'd be concerned if the F150 towed better than the 4500! Plus then you have all the room in that cube for toys!
I haven’t weighed 150 pounds since third grade
Which is why knowing that is the arbitrary number the manufacturers use is important
Helpful information delivered concisely and quickly.
Perfect - goal achieved!! Happy Camping!
Quick & simple. Thanks!
You're welcome!
as i see it this applies to a lot of things like towing a boat behind you, i watch boat videos and i see people with a decent size boat with a suv that is way to small but
thats life.
Yupp - payload will apply to every vehicle -towing or not.
Great video. One of the issues I have is with the RV dealerships telling you can tow anything with the vehicle you have and most of them don't understand how it works. I towed my very heavy 38', 10k trailer behind a F150 one time to get it off a seasonal site. That was enough for me to realize I need to upgrade. Went gas dually, and now have a diesel and what a difference. The sailing effect is realand there is a big difference with a 5k lb truck pulling a trailer and a 9k lb truck pulling a trailer with a closer matched weight. Just like having my 120lb wife carry a 50lb of sand vs me a 220lb carry the same thing. I can do much easier and longer amount of time without as much strain on my body.
Agreed - there needs to be something that requires an RV to be picked up from a dealer by a vehicle that meets the towing and payload numbers.
You're already carrying about 50lb too much so make that you carrying 100lb.
The knowledge and skill required to tow these vehicles safely is something not many have. That’s why there are so many accidents. In Australia people are pushing for a special licence to be needed to tow these. And after the horror accidents and near misses I’ve seen we need it.
More education is definitely a good idea!
A lot of facts here! I certainly learned that towing my heavier tractor is easier than towing the camper. I'm just glad i had enough sense to not try and push the limits. I do use a 3/4, but i see same size campers being towed with 1/2 tons pretty regular.
Major bummer - all we can do at this point is try educate as much as possible
I AM FORD TRUCK MAN(HAPPILY ON MY 3rd CONSECUTIVE F150) & IMO UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD ANY 1/2 TON PICK UP TRUCK BE TOWING ANY TRAILER HEAVIER THAN 8000-9000lbs MAX. A 1/2 TON(F150, RAM 1500, CHEV OR GMC 1500 etc) IS A LIGHT DUTY TRUCKS NOT HEAVY DUTY DESPITE WHAT CROOKED SALESMAN TRY TO SAY🤔
YOU'RE CORRECT
I learned that the hard way. They forgot to mention the F-150 I purchased is only rated to tow 5000 lbs with a 500 lb hitch weight without weight distribution. All those big numbers require a weight distribution hitch which they never told me.
Your caps lock key is stuck.
@@VideoManDanDON’T WORRY ABOUT IT & MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS
Agreed.
Good for you and keep preaching it, people are stuck on max tow numbers of their truck and never look at the max payload number of their truck the door sticker the more you add the more you subtract but the third leg of the towing triangle is the wheel base of the tow rig the longer the wheelbase the better the tow less likely the tail will wag the dog
The door stickers give us lots of information!
Also less overhang over the rear wheels.
People don't understand it's a whole lot easier bending the frames on 70 , 80 and $90,000 pick up trucks...
😬
Good video. Payload capacity is a fantasy number. Drag that rig over a CAT Scale and look at each axle, along with the total of the truck's axles compared to its GVWR. Finally, compare the gross weight of the entire rig to the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR).
Also, moving cargo in the trailer from front to rear to reduce tongue weight might not be a good idea. The trailer needs at least 10% of its weight on the tongue for stability.
Getting the exact numbers is definitely the way to go
Yep, having more weight in the back of the trailer is just asking for death wobble.
Using the Cat scale app makes it fast and easy to weigh your rig. You never have to leave your vehicle and go inside to pay . And Cat even emails you a copy of the weight ticket.
Most 1/2 ton pickups run out of payload LOOOONG before they run out of towing capacity. Unfortunately, most people don't know the difference between horizontal weight movement, compared to the vertical downward pressure that is payload.
And in all fairness, I have to admit to being one of those when I bought my truck. I got lucky that my trailer is only 7400 Lbs GVW, and my tongue weight has been adequately managed to keep it within the vehicles spec' close to the top, but still in...
Education is always better than consternation.
Agreed - ignorance can be cured with education
You can't beat the laws of physics. If they say you can do this much, but you want to do that much, you'll lose.
Physics always wins
It’s all explained in the Owner’s Manual. If you don’t understand the information, ask a knowledgeable person. Overloading your tow vehicle can have disastrous results. Excellent information provided here. Thanks.
Agreed
Even some heavier duty trucks have less payload capacity than you think. Especially those with Diesel engines. The engine itself is responsible for part of that as they weigh a lot more than comparable gas engines. I think a lot of people don’t add in all the stuff they load into the rv as well.
Agreed - folks are baffled when they realize a diesel has less payload than a gas engine truck
One thing I would recommend when towing a car .. if the drive wheels (front or rear, depending) aren't suspended, there's a good chance of burning out the transmission! Back in the 50's, automatic trannys had a rear pump that provided lubrication. Not so anymore. Yeah, I'm dating myself. One could actually push start cars back then with automatics. Happy trails to one and all.
Agreed- if you're towing with any wheels down the transmission needs to have been bypassed
Load distribution hitches make a big difference, but in essence they shift weight from back wheels to front wheels, so load doesn't decrease but merely migrate. But that migration is indeed a significant factor that affects many things, including steering and breaking and sway and articulation control, etc.. A knowledgeable driver utilises these aspects for various situations while cognizant of loads and their distributions, even for slewing in icy conditions. A pamphlet with this information should be a must with every trailer purchase of any type, in addition to a mini course for it, but few indeed are aware, let alone utilise this knowledge. And it shows.
Load distribution is essential too - but as you stated - it doesn't change the total capacity
My Ford owner's manual also talks about frontal area square inches of trailer. Wind drag can be a severe load.
Most definitely
I own a 2019 RAM 2500 (3/4 ton) with Cummins diesel. GVWR 9900 lbs. It weighs 8000 empty leaving 1900 lbs payload. When I hook up my 32 ft. Fifth wheel (9800 lbs loaded), the pin weight is 1450 lbs., leaving me with 450 lbs leftover payload However, when loaded with a full tank of fuel, DEF, wife, cat, tools, fifth wheel hitch, 2 extra propane tanks, wooden levelling blocks & boards, Camco Rhino 28 gallon portable waste tank, etc..., the truck's total weight is 10,700 lbs. Therefore, my truck is 800 lbs overweight using a 3/4 ton truck. These weights confirmed at a Gov't Highway scale When I see 30+ foot long fifth wheels being pulled by 1/2 ton trucks, I cringe. Absolutely, completely, 100% dangerous.
Yupp - and I'm assuming you didn't know to check those numbers before you got this trailer/truck combo - hopefully this video will catch someone else before making some of those decisions so they can make fully informed choices
The GCWR, Gross Combined Weight Rating, also should be read and the actual number measured.
Agreed
Do you have a vide explaining hitches and weightS?
Not currently ◡̈
Another important factor is tire load limit. Overloaded trailers can and will put stress on the tire side walls causing them to prematurely wear or possibly even cause a blow out. Your explanation concerning a load of bricks as opposed to an RV was good, except that it failed to cover tire load ratings. I have seen bearings fail on an overloaded trailer as well, so there is that to consider as well. If your bearings are not being properly greased, friction and heat can destroy bearings and the hub assembly. Big bucks there!
True story - hopefully if you're within all of the published specs on the tow vehicle and trailer that the manufacturers put on tires that are adequate for those loads.
@rvgearandfar Sadly, people are over loading their campers calling it " glamping" Ice makers, heavy cast iron griddle stoves, kids bikes, everything but the kitchen sink. A recipe for blown tires.
And not just tire load ratings, but proper air pressure and tire age too. I stay away from people pulling any type of trailer or camper. People are cheap and lazy.
@LuckyCharms777 You should have seen the scrapper trailer yesterday being pulled by an old beat up truck. It was weaving all over behind the truck. The trailer was over loaded and a complete wreck. Old tires, both tires bowed in. He couldn't go any faster than 45.
PREACH BROTHER!!! I've been towing for years and see trucks all the time so grotesquely overloaded the headlights are pointing straight into the sky, blinding local airplane pilots. How these guys don't get the "hints" the overloaded suspension is telling them is beyond me. Why they never seem to get pulled over for it is baffling aswell. Besides overloaded for the suspension, it's overloaded for the BRAKES!!! Good luck stopping these crazy trains in a panic with next to no weight on the steering axle!!!
Sometimes its ignorance - and sometimes its just negligence
Great commentary…
Thanks for watching!
You also need to check your axle weights, because all the axles have a weight rating
Agreed
Finally a tow rating video that talks about the differences between towing a travel trailer and a comparably weighted low boy or flatbed style trailer with a half ton truck. The tow capacity rating for half ton trucks in the US is not based on towing a travel trailer. The tow ratings are set by testing loads on a flatbed car r low boy style trailer that tows much better than a travel trailer.
8 feet of sail 30 feet long definitely handles different!
@@rvgearandfar yes sir in many ways.
Also you need to know that there is a legal limit you can tow before you need a different license. He stated his truck has a 11,000 towing capacity well the law says any driver towing trailer over 10,500 needs a CDL. So now if you have a trailer with a gvwr of 11,000 you are not legal to tow it with out a cdl loaded or not.
Very informative.
Thanks! Here's another video you might enjoy: ua-cam.com/video/bDaH1tA0IBs/v-deo.html
Great video, and I agree with EVERYTHING you said. I would add that listed "empty" weight of a trailer is a useless number as it may not include such things as propane tanks, propane, a weight distributing hitch, or all of the stuff we bring camping. My rule of thumb is to take the trailer's GVWR, multiply it by 15% and add the weight of passengers, pets, hitch and cargo - that's the payload capacity to shoot for. As you showed, that payload number will be on the driver's door sticker - you can't trust a brochure or a general spec sheet because every vehicle is optioned differently, and the weight of those options lowers the payload. Bought a trailer first? Use this calculation to determine which tow vehicle to buy. Bought a tow vehicle first? Reverse the calculation to determine the GVWR of the trailer you can safely tow.
Remember:
- Airbag suspension will level your tow vehicle but does NOTHING to distribute weight
- You can't trust an RV salesperson to advise you correctly - do your own math
- "Half-ton towable" is as much of a fallacy as "empty weight"
- Weigh your trailer and tow vehicle
All fantastic points - especially the airbags - they can't "increase" your payload
Just plain forget anything half ton or less. They’re useless. Three quarter ton for bumper pull, at least a tonner for a fifth wheel. Also, take a quick stroll around the trailer….count the number of tires touching the ground. If there’s more than four, now you know how many tires need to be on the truck.
I don't think its that black and white - plenty of rigs are fine being towed by a 1/2 ton - but definitely not everything
@@rvgearandfar True…..until things go to hell. Then it’s oh shit time! Shoulda bought more truck. Of course there are tent trailers etc that are half ton ok. But sales staff all lie to the final consumer. Remember, a Toyota Tundra can tow the space shuttle.
I’ve seen a few Rv being towed with F150’s that 32-35 tow behinds since Ford advertises that it can tow up to 11,000 lbs so they do it. They do not look into everything on the Ford two guide lines. With a 4 door cab, 4 wheel drive and lots stuff in the bed. Yes I’m sure they can do it but I would not want to stop it in an emergency situation or going downhill. I went to a 2500 when we upgraded to a 35 ft tow behind at 10500 lbs and what a difference it made.
Another area of safety is speed. I typically drive around 60-65mph max. I try to keep it closer to 60. I usually get passed like I'm sitting still by other TT's! I pull a 6k TT with a F150 max tow.
Agreed - no need to be towing an RV the same speeds you drive a stand alone vehicle
Weight distribution is a big factor in towing because it affects directly the stability of the ensemble and also the capacity of manoeuvring. Always pay attention to your trailer's equilibrium (and verify your tires before coupling it to your car because you don't use it 90% of the year and a lot of people don't care about tire pressure or wear)
Tire pressure is absolutely important - 1000% recommend using a TPMS system on your RV
Sadly a lot of folks get to much trailer for the pickup they are trying to pull it with. After 42 years as a truck driver. I saw it way to often
And once you start noticing it on the road you start seeing it EVERYWHERE
On the flip-side; I've had many salesmen tell me that you can never tow more weight than the weight of the vehicle doing the towing. Not even with trailer brakes. I always answer by asking how the vehicles at the dealership were delivered.
That's the problem with a sales force that haven't used the product they're selling
Not really anything to do about campers but I work at a small stone quarry and people come in with a small truck or a SUV pulling trailers and want 4 to 5 ton of rock ,I tell them no way. Depending on the setup I load what I feel is a safe weight for them, some claim they pull big campers with it but they don't have trailer lights working which means no trailer breaks. I have loaded a ton to a ton and a half on them and yep they have a difficult time stopping on the scales so they can't stop safely on the road. I tell them a trailer and a camper are different but no they know everything.
Sad and true
Turn Off the Electronic Overdrive.
Label Your Dash to Remember
Happy Camping!
how many have had tractor trailers pass you and felt the camper wanting to change lanes on you?, trick is to open the side windows, a bit and the top vents, this helps prevent the vacuum between you and a trucks trailer passing you, try and turn the camper around
While that might be mildly helpful - I see far more downfall - dirt, water, exhaust fumes - to opening windows than benefits
Good video - but every driver towing on the highway NEEDS to understand the following for their tow vehicle:
Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating - How much the tow vehicle and towed vehicle can weigh together
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating - The maximum weight the tow vehicle can weigh.
Gross Axle Weight Rating - How much each axle can weigh when fully loaded.
Tire Weight Rating - How much each tire position can weigh.
Hitch Rating - Maximum amount of weight that can be placed on the hitch.
I'll bet that at least half of the tow vehicles I see pulling travel trailers and fifth wheels exceed one or more of these ratings.
All relevant and necessary measurements
The biggest mistake was dealers not optioning the HDPP package on f150’s and ford finally killing it.
Bigger brakes, thicker frame, LT tires, 9.75 axle and all models including a crew cab 4x4 XLT had 2300+ payload. My dealer had one that was custom ordered that was a crew cab 4x4 XLT with 2488lbs. Extended cab 4x4 ones were 3k lbs with the 8ft bed.
I mean at that point, isn't it really just a 3/4 ton gasser?
Yes but at the same time you get the more fuel efficient engine of the F150. It still will also weigh quite a bit less still than the 2500 or F-250. @@rvgearandfar
@@rvgearandfar it weights in at 5500lbs, still 17-19mpg pending engine, not as big, cheaper maintenance. I go into the city a lot and a 3/4 ton is too much, you can’t take it into parking garages haha.
In our 1/2 ton fifth wheel group there’s plenty of them while loaded are 50-100lbs under GVW. Mostly grand design units with the axles far forward.
I look at gvw anything over 26,001 lbs you need a cdl A license. Saved a friend a lot of money because of that.
Definitely check your state laws as they still tend to vary throughout the country regarding this
i have a 5th wheel i pull with my 96 f350. and i have airbags on it. pulls just fine.
Have you measured the weights? 1996 truck has VASTLY different capacities that a 2016 model year
@@rvgearandfar My 5th wheel weights 12,800 lbs. and yes Yes i have. my truck is old. and the bags just help to keep it from sagging is all.
It’s very confusing. So confusing I bought a dually 3500 Chevy to tow a 10’ pop up trailer. Didn’t want to take any chances.
Lol and now you need sand dune flags in order to see it behind you ◡̈
😂🤣😂 Am glad I’ve never been interested in towing anything anywhere. I use to weigh 150kg (330lbs) and now weigh 107kg (235lbs) and the fact that I haven’t weighed 68kg (150lbs) in more than 45 years means I won’t be towing anything especially an oversized, overweight and overpriced porta dunny any time soon. 😂🤣😂 Thanks for sharing here in Australia our towing rules are much the same so this video was still helpful. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Glad you got some value out of it!
I was under the impression that driver weight wasn't already factored into payload. I wouldn't put anything bigger than a teardrop or popup tent style camper on a ball hitch.
You'll have to check with your specific manufacturer - but most I've seen include a "150lb driver"
I’ll tell you one thing, I have a trailer that is inside the limits of the payload on my half ton, but just barely, and it’s not a pleasant tow. It’s not white knuckle, but it’s not relaxing by any means. I’m waaay under my tow railing, at least 2k lbs under, but it goes to show how unimportant that number is. Bottom line, my truck weighs 5k lbs and my trailer weighs 7600. Not hard to see the problem.
So just to get what you are saying, if I have a 20000 pound fifth wheel I need a truck that weighs atleast 22000 pounds. What truck is that.
Thats the hard part too - is EACH truck can be vastly different with different equipment - one 1/2ton might have 1800lb payload while another that looks nearly identical has 900 lb payload
My friend had a camper the dealer told him the axl were 6000 thay bent when he pull them he found them to be 4000 lb buy be wear
Trust but verify
Also, if you’re close to your tow capacity, (calculated at sea level!!!) and you’re up in altitude in the mountains, your transmission could hit your stall rpm, and you will not be moving.
👍
The only time the people are going to pay attention is when RV's are no longer allowed to bypass the scales.
Maybe- but I think the issue is more ignorance than negligence- we need all steps of the process educating
I love seeing subawooos towing dual axle campers slower than home made molasses.
As long as its within capacities!
Yet another reason I'm sticking with short (under 30 feer) gasser, pre-Obama Class A RVs with no Toad. Unless we decide to upgrade to a Country Coach 32.
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...Unfortunately there is far too many people suffering from the "hold my beer" illness when it comes to towing a trailer...
you're all too correct
At 1:17 - a giant RV towing a giant pickup truck on a trailer. Turning corners must be a challenge.
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It will always look wrong seeing a half-ton truck pull a 5th wheel.😂
I'd have to agree with you there
Manufacture payload and towing ratings are exceeded every day. Commercial operators exceed these numbers by 10 times in some occasions. I am not saying that you should exceed these numbers but it is not like your vehicle will explode if you do. If you have experience and knowledge about what you are doing it will go along way to keeping you safe.
Just because they are, doesn't mean they should be. And I'd say most RVers DON'T have the experience or knowledge - they don't even know they're breaking the stated limits...
THANK YOU! I have been telling people for years... particularly those with half-ton trucks... that 15,000lbs of paver bricks will tow far easier, far safer, and get far better fuel economy than towing a 10,000lb camper. Nobody ever believes me 😂
Which also means EACH RV will tow differently too based on aerodynamics, weight, direction of wind etc
GCWR is another number that has relevance to remaining within specs.
Agreed!
A good rule of thumb is don’t exceed 80% of rated towing capacity. Not every RV is a behemoth, I have a 26’ that only weighs about 6K fully loaded and I can tow it comfortably with my F150’s 7,600 lb towing capacity
Running the numbers on each specific RV and each specific tow vehicle is super important. So you're at 80% towing capacity - how are you on payload numbers?
@@rvgearandfar Well within. The trailer tongue weight is only 765 lbs, and generally only 1 occupant the driver. Based on a 150 lb occupant I’m about 1.5 occupants
I find the biggest limiting fact in people towing a camper is the brains behind the wheel. Or the lack there of in most cases.
Often its just ignorance - folks don't know what they don't know
Have you seen the nuts on the half ton towing Facebook page?!
I had to leave those groups - very little was numbers based
No pickup truck manufacturer lists whether or not fuel is included in cargo carrying capacity (CCC) and, I’ve never seen a 150# driver not included in CCC until I saw this video of yours for a recent FORD model. I’m sure Toyota did not have the 150# driver (l was 220#) and full fuel tank included in this. We pulled a Forest River 2007 RLSE 5th wheel 30,000+ miles over 10 years with a 2012 TOYOTA TUNDRA RCSB SR5 5.7, 4X4, tow package w/ oil cooler. The RV had a GVWR of 11,170#, a dry weight of 6,435# (no water, propane or 12V battery); the truck had unladen weight of 5280#, GVWR of 6800# , 1520# CCC and a Trailer Tow Capacity of 9,200#. The RV alone weighed ~7000# w/ 60# of propane, 48 gal. (400#) potable water and 12V deep cycle lead acid battery (65#+/-). The Combined Gross Vehicle Weight (RV & Truck) Rating (CGVW) of Tundra was 15,500#. Therefore with the Tundra @ full GVWR of 6800#, which it ALWAYS approached with us 2 aboard, 110#+ of Standard Poodles, usual minimum personal stuff in the cab, full tank of gas, 5th wheel sliding and 2 axis tilt hitch, hitch mounting hardware, all total estimated but individual component manufacturer’s data we typically had a Truck weight of ~6000#+/- before the RV pin weight was added. 6800#-6000#= 800# max. pin weight allowed!
How did we do this? Well, we weighed the truck front axle alone, then the truck as a whole, both cases with the trailer loaded as intended but, juggled weight and discarded weight to not exceed allowable loadings. This was accomplished by weighing the complete rig and full truck together, the total weight without the truck front axle weight, then just the trailer weight (but connected to the truck). Generally speaking, the RV itself, including pin weight, after eliminating some heavy items from the front of RV (heavy steel adjustable lounge chairs + misc.); 2 Honda generators moved to rear of RV, all from basement storage, moving somewhat large clothes storage bins w/ lids to rear of RV, placing heavy tool cases to extreme rear of RV, carrying 12-15 gal. potable water in milk jugs, ALWAYS a full 42 gal. potable water tank at extreme rear of RV, (when dry camping we did a lot of extra gal. jugs), etc. we got the pin weight down and TUNDRA GVWR load down to TUNDRA recommended levels. HOWEVER WE WERE FAR FROM THE GENERALLY ACCEPTED LEVEL OF 5TH WHEEL RV TOWING OF 15-20% OF RV GVW BEING ON THE PIN!
So, how did this work out: PERFECT! WE worked up SLOWLY to less pin weight % to evaluate any trailer sway. We weighed our rig at a Solid Waste Transfer Station nearby w/ 20 # display accuracy. FOR FREE. Weighing individual system axles and total weight allowed a confirmation of overall scale accuracy with arithmetic. Waste Transfer Scales are checked by State Bureau of Weight & Measures and confirmed at Solid Waste Sanitary Landfills for billing purposes. Therefore we are as confident in the numbers as any CAT Scale.
NEVER, NEVER ANY RV SWAY WITH OUR 126” Wheelbase truck or 30’-4” 5th wheel, although some windy conditions when a tractor trailer passed us on the open road, ie.80 mph across Wyoming, 75, 70 on other Interstates, w/semi’s at least 5-10 mph over the limit, you could feel a “suction” towards the semi initially, then a push away once it began to clear their pass of us. NEVER WAS THIS CIRCUMSTANCE UPSETTING TO OUR RIG, JUST A MINOR STEERING CORRECTION EACH WAY AS THEY PASSED.
Great that you did that, but not everybody goes to the dump scale every time they load their trailer.
Sounds like you made it work within the numbers, but JUST barely and with a TON of finesse. Sadly, most RV owners won't even read through half of this post much less do the calculations and work you did to make sure that you were under for the truck, as it sounds like there was still some room in the RV - most folks just fill volume and don't account for weight with RV storage
agreed
All true! Lol 😂 37 years old, about to retire from USCG (20 Yr career) in April 98! Went to Phoenix AZ for rv shopping. Neither no knowledge or experience. Gonna full time right out the gate. Decided on a 38’ triple slide Alpha Gold (heavy) looked at nothing except interior, Lol 😂! Dealer told us we have Ford & Dodge dealerships. If, buy a truck from us it will be $500 over our cost. Done ✅ 1 ton Dodge dully w/new V-10 gas beast! CA-NJ-AZ-SD. Towed easy & stable. RV life new and don’t think transmissions were upgrading back then. Learned quickly - even with electric brakes, you need ROOM to stop. Other lesson - checked in to small rv park MO. Told left from office, take 1st 2 rights, 3rd spot on the left. Not a pull thru. Did Not mention 1st right is the beginning of a climb 500’ long. Didn’t look steep, ugh it was to steep! Halfway up we’re going backwards & brakes wouldn’t hold. Told tow operator need a big tow truck. Sent little, he said, he was to tell me unkook an he tow 1 at a time. Car tow truck, I asked how will you hook to the 5th trailer that big. Enuf on that. Then-
In ‘05 I went back to work. Couldn’t tolerate civilian (crybaby) employees. Climbed in an 18 wheeler & never looked back unless driving! Lol 😂 now with DEF on diesels & the expense of them, No Thanks. Still in big trucks a few more years. Starting to watch for the biggest & baddest 3/4 ton Gas tow vehicle with highest rating. I hope to never push any limits. My desire is stay 2,000 lbs below max. We will see how small that becomes. That’s class for today! Written test in the morning, class dismissed! Lol 😂 Be Safe
hahaha - you've had quite the experiences! And yes, gas heavy duty trucks and transmissions are coming a long way to compete with diesels
Car dealership and rv dealership will lie to you about what you can pull/tow vs what you should. One big thing to look at is the rear axle. A full floater is designed to haul weight semi floater axles are just light car axles. Load range tire are important to look at too.
Gotta measure it all!
It is no different for motor homes. My Jeep doesn't add any weight to the motor home but a trailer would. Many motor homes are overloaded without realizing it. Motor homes and trailers both have fresh, grey and black water tanks that need to be taken in account when traveling.
Gotta weigh it all!
this is why a class C ( reg car) dl should NOT allow you to tow any trailer or drive any truck larger than a 1 ton pick up truck. ( not flat bed).
Knowledge is power ◡̈ Thanks for watching and helping spread the word
In my opinion the average weight is more likely 175 - 190 lbs realistically.
For the average driver? Ultimately doesn’t matter what the variable is, just need to have it in the calculations correctly
You mean _besides_ not aiming the headlights so they're not a hazard to oncoming traffic, or not operating with deliberation & planning ahead & slowing earlier before turning & stopping? Whodathunkit?!
Slow is pro :)
Too many people towing trailers with inadequate trucks. Never tow the max or near max towing capacity whe you still have to load the truck. Dont be towing with a half ton when you need a 1 ton. And dont use weight distribution bars. They take most of the weight off the rear axle and spread it out between the front axle of the truck and the trailer axle/axles. If the whole rif weighs 14,000 pounds you have basically 7500 on the trailer axle and the same on the front of the truck. 7500 is way too much on a trcks front axle. You will go through brakes and tires. Plus not much traction on the rear axle of the truck. So when u hit wet weather you will spin those tires
Agreed - and not because they want to - just don't know any better.
Maybe if you crank your WD hitch up so far that the truck's back tires are off the ground. But if you only add enough assist to make the truck level, then you will actually make the truck safer by adding steering and braking traction to the front wheels.
I see F150s Bumper pulling 30+ foot toy haulers while speeding by me, sometimes I see them again later on their side off in a ditch cause they couldn't control it while going down hill.
Just tow with a ford ranger ,
Everyone knows a ford ranger payload is ♾️
The internet is never wrong and I saw a Ford Ranger pull loads way bigger than the largest toy hauler available - legendary vehicles ;)
The Ford Ranger is made from Unobtainium and the engine can rev to infinity.
This is like half of what you need to measure. Per axle weight, tire capacity per tire - inflation pressure. If you’re going to show them how to do it go all the way or just don’t teach them at all.
I don't agree with this attitude - we don't teach calculus before we can do multiplication. And if you're within towing and payload capacity limits we can typically move gear around to address axle weights, tire capacities etc as those are more closely related to how a rig is loaded.
The best is = max 70% of the tow capacity.
Being under capacity never hurts
I disagree. 70% of my RAM 2500's towing capacity is 14,000lbs. A 14,000lb 5th wheel or TT is going to have a tongue/pin weight of over 2000lbs, according to my research. My RAM2500's payload is 2119lbs. I'll be way over my truck's payload when I add 638lbs of me, wife, dog, and full load of diesel.
Oops…yeah….no short beds when towing rvs!
Why?
F150 drivers alwasy think they are in a 1 ton. Not sure why its almost always an f150 i see overloaded
Because F150 is the most popular truck - numbers game
Biggest mistake people make is not knowing how to drive these things. If you are going to pull a large camper, call a truck driving school and sign up for a few lessons.
Lessons would definitely shorten the learning curve!
ya they use ford f1shities and gmc durajokes
Tell us how you really feel
I tell people this all the time on these dumb Facebook groups. Nobody wants to hear it and you get experts that tell you you’re wrong. I gave up. Let them be dangerous on the highways.
It is unfortunate that some folks just stick their heads in the sand about it.
Having an RV means your wallet is constantly getting a work out , it's just not worth the pain . Airbnb is my choice , fuel , insurance , taxes , setup , disposal of tank, water , electric , park fees , HOA restrictions , personal property taxes, depreciation . Yearly inspections , harassment by other drivers while in the parks for smoke , dogs barking so little to no sleep . Gunshots almost every night , tires too small for the design of the trailer , ECT
Definitely more work to own an RV than staying in a hotel or AirBnB - sounds like you might need to choose better RV park locations for future camping trips though
Id only use a f250 for towing big rvs cause f150s cant do the job
And that would also be a mistake - gotta do the math on each truck and each towable.
The problem is that the vast majority towing incorrectly wont watch this video until something bad happens.
Sadly true.
You're wasting your time mate. In Australia the amount you can tow is directly related to your budget. If you have a ton of money, you are obliged to buy the biggest most obnoxious rig you can find. Don't worry about the weights, or your lack of driving skills, or your complete disregard for other road users. If you got the cash, just go for it! The main objective is to out accessorise everyone else haha
sadly true the world around
load yourself, GOTO a CAT scale.
You worried about being 129lbs over payload😂, give me a break, there’s not a logging truck on the road that isn’t over weighted and we talking about 129lbs😂😂,
I think you’re missing the point - thats breaking payload without the hitch or ANY other gear in the truck. And yes- my family’s safety means I’m going to do everything I can to stay with in the engineered specs.
Yes, I guess I sound kinda smart tail about it, but us who pull serious weight everyday see a bigger picture, and these little videos pop up everywhere now scareing people, apologies if I seemed rude but you have to be seriously overweight to worry about it, and the dot is not gonna bother a camper
I got nothing but confusion with terms and weight capacities.you accomplished nothing for me.
Sorry to hear that - the gist to research elsewhere - calculating towing capacity AND payload capacity is a good place to start when researching RVs
The big mistake with RV towing is the enormous RV's people think they need. All that STUFF you have to look after. And , it is a big drain for your wallet. And when you have enough of it and you want to sell you will find out you are only going to get a fraction of the price that you paid for the darn thing. It is just a big pain in the butt. And the cost of the gas and the pollution it causes to our atmosphere and ..... and....... bla bla bla . You know what I mean.
We just want to get away from it all for a little while, but we want to take it all with us.
Different strokes for different folks!
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That is not RV'ing. An RV is a single modular vehicle. What you are showing are cars towing a camper van. Get it right!
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Why does the USA still use pounds. When the rest of world use KG's, seems strange.
Agreed - units of 10 make everything much easier - but I grew up learning the imperial and the vast majority of my audience uses the imperial system - so that's what works for this application ◡̈
Talked way too fast. Need to slow down.
Thanks for the feedback!
I love these scary videos 🙄😒🤣 I'm willing to bet that people such as yourself making these "warning" videos don't even follow your own warnings, I will bet that on any trip, you'll be overloaded 🤷♂️...but according to people like you "warning gurus" I now have to leave my dog, a 3rd of the Steaks I was planning on bbqing on Saturday, plus that socket set I always take in my tool box, as well as 1/2 of my fresh water tank and all because of the "towing capacity" and "payload capacity" ratings?...oh maaaaan! 🤷♂️🤣🤣🤣
Did you notice the change from the F150 to the 2500? I DIDN'T know any better - so the goal is to save someone the hassle and educate BEFOREHAND. Thanks for taking the time to comment and engage - it really helps spread the word ◡̈ Happy trails
Most of the people engaged in the comment section on this video probably tow on a regular basis. Anyone that does tow often knows their limitations and the limitations of their equipment.
Basically, if you want a 5th wheel, you need a 3500 or 350. Might as well get a dually because it will tow like a dream.
Not necessarily and I think its a disservice to use blanket statements - we all really need to just do the calculations on each rig setup and be aware of the equipment limitations - because a 1 ton dually has limitations as well
@@rvgearandfar “Basically” as in most cases. People tend to do math that prevents them from having to buy a new truck. For instance, that pin weight from the manufacturer is for a dry trailer. Even with that weight being at its minimum, that is usually enough to put a 3/4 ton over payload especially if you add the weight of the hitch itself.
Each individual should do their own calculations, I was just giving a pretty accurate rule of thumb. And the dually part is just an opinion. Probably because I weigh about 25,500 lbs when fully loaded.🤣😔