A $60,000,000 Controversy - The Tragedy of Too Human
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- Опубліковано 24 чер 2024
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Tumultuous development cycles have long plagued video games from conception to release. In some cases, the turmoil stems from poor management. Funding-related issues stifle progress on several occasions, as well. And projects that hop from one studio to another in a precarious game of hot potato rarely arrive at the finish line in a respectable state. But what of the titles whose protracted development rested on the back of one vision, fueled by previously well-managed teams with funding from publishers boasting an excess of wealth? The critically panned Too Human from Legacy of Kain and Eternal Darkness creator Silicon Knights fit perfectly into this strange stew of circumstance.
What began in the 1990s as an ambitious, five-disc adventure for the original PlayStation morphed into a GameCube exclusive after the turn of the century. Leading production on two Nintendo exclusives kept Silicon Knights away from what co-founder and President Denis Dyack described as the studio’s dream project, which resurfaced in 2005 as an Xbox 360 game. Too Human’s creation, thus, spanned three different platforms across three console generations. Unsurprisingly, the Norse mythology-inspired product that Microsoft published in 2008 bore little in common with the Blade Runner-esque build that ran on PS1 during E3 1999.
The specifics about what went wrong remain shrouded in mystery. But reports concerning Silicon Knights’ management style post-Nintendo paint a pretty clear picture of the rocky road that may have paved the way for Too Human’s disastrous last stand.
This is the tragedy of Too Human.
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The Tragedy of Too Human 3:10
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![[Разбор полётов] Стоит ли играть в Too Human?](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bQIex9f87f8/mqdefault.jpg)
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Kinguin, seriously?! Have you not seen anything about how crooked that company is? Seriously, don't buy from there.
I know you gotta make your money somehow but that sponsor is NOT the way to go
@@PXAbstraction Nothing wrong with it. Their keys work, they are incredibly cheap, so why wouldn't you shop there? Never had a problem and i bought about 60 games there already.
Gotta chime in here to add:
Kinguin is a grey market key reseller with a poor history of stealing developers keys and reselling them, while not protecting consumers.
I would encourage you to drop them as a sponsor going forward!
Key reselling website business model is based on people using it to sell keys bought with stolen credit cards.
I was a tester for this game just before its release, and I even have a sealed copy floating around somewhere. I can say that Dyak was likely one of the primary causes of this game's downfall. Trying to get bugs acknowledged or worked on was one of the most frustrating experiences. Dyak himself had a bug filed in the system that said "the game is too good and perfect," and every day we thought about closing it with "Cannot duplicate." He was so full of himself that it was impossible for him to admit that the game had flaws.
It's tragic to see a game fail like this because it had so much potential. The futuristic Norse mythology theme was unique and visually appealing, although the best visuals were hidden in places that could only be reached by breaking the camera. Now that most copies have been sold, it's interesting to think about the things that me and the other testers experienced that will likely only be known by a few, if anyone.
For example, did you know that there is epic armor in this game? The red-tier armor is character-specific and provides unique benefits with a full set. It was also purposely programmed to have a lower chance of dropping for your current class, encouraging players to play with others and trade armor. However, it wasn't even the best armor, despite being the rarest and meant to be the most powerful. In fact, there is a set of lower-tier armor with many slots for runes that allow for even more powerful armor builds. Note that neither type of armor was meant to be seen until the second or third playthrough, after about 50 hours of play, far more than most players would invest in the game.
It is interesting to see people put out videos about the game though. This one is well put together and goes over a good deal of the dev cycle information.
Thanks for the behind-the-scenes perspective. I remember the hype for this game as if it was yesterday. I loved Eternal Darkness as it was such a unique experience. When I heard about Too Human, I was super bummed it was only coming out on 360 cause I had a PS3. Then the reviews came and ohhh boy. Everyone hated this game. Didn't it also had a weird control scheme where the right stick was the sword?
That comment is too good and perfect 😂😂😂
Judging from what's been said in the video, I can imagine that closing the "Game is too good and perfect" bug would get the person fired on the spot.
Pics or it didn't happen
My only knowledge of this game comes from the scathing Zero Punctuation review. It's interesting to hear that his estimate that the game "has the stench of the auteur, made for the designer's sake rather than the player" and "the auteur would rather jab scissors to his eyes than change one iota of their magnum opus" were on the money.
My dad used to love this game, so I honestly felt bad when we both found out how awful the development went, and how Silicon Knights revealed their true colors.
Nintendo was the only reason silicon knights had any success in the first place because they forced some form of quality on them
It also showed the true colors of Epic Games. In the lawsuit, there's tons of statements about how Epic was selling basically a non-existent product - Unreal Engine 3 wasn't done until Gears of War shipped, basically, but was sold to studios as a complete way, WAY before that. It left many studios stumbling, having to create their own engine tech on top of Unreal despite just having paid for a full solution. And Epic hasn't changed a bit.
@@PenguinDT Same sort of thing happened with troika games when they made vampire the masquerade with the source engine. while Valve was still developing the engine and half life 2.
@@mrheroprimes That explains why that game was not 100 complete. Still a good game though, and can't wait for the sequel in 2050
@@connormclernon26 Same with Rareware.
I played Too Human before as a kid and I have to say, even then, I could tell the game had something going for it, and if only Dennis Dyack could have gotten out of his way, we would be singing a totally different tune about Too Human. In the same vein as the saga with Duke Nukem.
“We’ve always wanted to make entertainment, the dominant form of entertainment” lol stellar quote.
Based.
Too Human lives rent free in my mind. I love watching videos about it. It is so fascinating for some reason. I gotta play it someday, it's been installed on my console for almost a year now
If you have an xbox one I do believe Too Human is free to played.
@@LaraCroftEyes1
I have Series X and yes, I downloaded it for free in like April
It’s also free on Xbox store for some reason (the video will probably tell me)
I didn't think people like u existed.
@@EggEnjoyer I remember it being a huge letdown upon release. Probably one of the first cases of overpromise and underdeliver. I followed the production and watched some trailers back in the day, but even then, I thought it looked mediocre.
Must have stung to work on this project for over a decade only for it to fail so spectacularly in the end.
If they hadn't gone and tried to sue Epic they might have had a chance to redeem themselves.
Too Human has been free on the Xbox store for years now for those that want to give it a play through.
Thanks for the heads up! Just claimed it and will try it out tonight.
Even for free its not worth it.
This game had tons of potential. I personally enjoyed it. Sucks it will never get remade or sequels
10:09 Man, remember when Adam Sessler wasn't a joyless shell of a person? Remember when he was passionate about and actually liked video games? God, I hate this timeline.
Dude was a dumbass then and still is now
Maybe pod-people or the replacement people out of Lovecraftian horror is real, and Adam got replaced. It'd explain how he changed.
I mean I follow gaming as a casual hobby and I'm pretty jaded on its cycles of hype and disappointment... Sessler was already a sassy snarky Gen-Xer and covering the industry for decades on the very corporate side of things is honestly soul-sucking.
This game is literally a museum piece, and I'm so happy Microsoft allowed us to purchase the game again a couple years ago
I played the demo again recently and I just wished i had better controls but I did love running and gunning.
Not even purchase. The game is currently free on Xbox.
It's free on Xbox consoles, you can just go to the store and get Crackdown 1 and 2 for free and ignore too humane.
That right 😎 it's free of charge
It is aviable again? Cause my understanding was that there was a problem with license of the Unreal engine and thus all games had to be destroyed as Sk didn't have the rights to use the engine anymore or used the license wrong.
This game had so many issues, but honestly it had one of the coolest concepts in a game for its time. A futuristic post-apocalyptic Norse mythology action game spoke to my soul and I enjoyed this game immensely. It is a shame it fell so short as it not had the issue of rough development and that lawsuit this game would have been a smash hit easily.
Never, ever oversell a game. Game companies should have learned that a while ago but, sadly that continues to happen.
You gotta generate the hype! Even a shit game could make millions on pure hype.
@@jahjoeka Sad but very true, hype sells.
I feel like that’s the reason I enjoyed the game. I had never heard of it. Just picked it up at GameTrader in their bargain bin back in 09ish I think. I also didn’t really follow any of the cyberpunk hype so when it came out I picked it up (had a powerhouse of a PC so I didn’t have any major issues) and absolutely loved the game. Hype is the enemy of enjoyment.
I have a copy of this game and an Xbox 360 Faceplate signed by some of the developers of Too Human. I lived in a small town outside of St Catherine's where Silicon Knights was situated, so they showed up on launch day at the EB Games I had ordered my copy at.
Not exactly worth much now but it's a fun thing to own.
Your voice is so good it's almost criminal, you can easily do voiceovers for crime dramas or nature documentaries, thanks for all your work
It is sexy isn't it
@@ThommyofThenn a little too sexy
🤨
Theee homies wanna fuck this guys voice lol 2023 wild asf
@@drunkpaulocosta9301 or you're stuck on the 70s, guy
Silicon Knights were a legendary developer. Shame it fell apart.
shame we will never have eternal darkness
@@joshuagraham2843 You can play on the Game Cube.
@@joshuagraham2843the end will kum
You should consider covering Advent Rising which seemed very promising at the time but didn't live up to expectations.
Sadly the publisher Majesco was in massive financial problems just before Advent Rising came out because of the failure of Psychonauts, amazing game but it didnt sell back in the day. Majesco had other failures and the funding was cute. Devs of Advent Risign rushed and sold the game.
Too Human I completely forgot about this game. It was on a cover of Xbox 360 Gamer Magazine
It’s always the same story with people who get famous for developing a great game/movie. At least from what I got from the video, it was a bit of the typical (between other factors of course) they get complete freedom and get full of themselves when they should just stick to:
- be open minded regarding the opinions of other people from the team and specially the constructive critiques
- don’t stray too much from the vision
- keep the team small, agile and making sure everyone works well between themselves
- make sure the baseline is there - failing fast and early saves costs, time and people’s motivation (the more time and investment one puts in, the more attached one becomes to what is being developed)
Still got my Xbox 360 copy. Played all 5 character types to max level... was so mad how reviewers just shit all over it because they didn't like the floating camera and didn't understand the right stick button combo stuff. And that EPIC lawsuit stuff was just stupid.
The loss of Eternal Darkness 2 still hurts almost 2 decades later.
Deep into that Darkness peering,
Long there I stood,
Wondering, Fearing, Doubting...
We'd ever see a sequel.
It does.
The history of this $60 million faliure has more interesting substance then the game itself lol
The gaming documentary Channel had a sponsor for a grey market Key reseller.
You can't make this shit up
Too Human had issues but I actually really enjoyed it. The game was fun and there were quite a few builds/gear that felt powerful and cool to play. If it was less buggy at release and had more environmental variety I think it would have been received better.
I played it then and think it's great when the controls "clicks".
I remember the moment when I get the controls clicked in my head. From this point I had a lot of fun and wished there was a sequel...
Same here as well
I loved it too on my x360
I could never get over my right thumb stick. Like they could've did something for camera control
I enjoyed Too Human. I played through multiple times with each character class but mained the cyber commando. Never did complete a five piece red set though. My favorite part about the game was the dialogue of the NPC soldiers who were your backup. They call each other by name. They call out threats to one another. They fight hard, try to keep up each others spirits, mourn fallen comrades. The wolves and the bears have good back and forth chatter. By the time you get to the end of the last level they are all dead. You as the main character of the game are a god. Your success is all but assured and so you play your way through and are eventually victorious. After playing many times it seems easy but if you listen to the chatter of the soldiers it makes you aware of the great toll this campaign inflicts on them. They serve to emphasize the stakes. In the last level there is a cutscene and it has always stood out to me as just a great storytelling moment. One of your last wolf soldiers is dragging his dying buddy away from the undead horde while firing his rifle one handed. A Valkyrie descends towards them. He sees her coming and still firing with one arm the soldier tries to hoist his friends body up to her and tells her to take him. As she arrives she pushes the body aside and grabs the lone survivor who starts struggling and shouting something like "No! No! Not me take him!" because he doesn't want the body of his pal left behind in Helheim. He is the one she is here for though and so they ascend. Beautiful.
I remember putting time into the game, it had potential but that combat felt weird and floaty and really lacked the impact
Where do kinguin keys come from?
Is this another front for CC thievery?
It’s a damn shame Scalebound never came out.
Hey maybe 10 more million would've got the job done.
well they confirmed its coming back but redesigning
@@joshuagraham2843 source
@@millerkavanagh7915 i think you can look up on google, it was originally to give IP to nintendo switch but changed their minds to revive the cancelled game
nioh 1 did the same
it was originally dynasty warriors back in 2004 and then revived back
it will same thing happen to scalebound but the main character will change cuz hes too much similar with nero from dmc 5
@@jahjoeka 😆
I actually really liked this game. Sad it didn't do that well :/ hopefully it gets a reboot or sequel
Really? Sponsored by Kinguin? Arent they still a gray market CD key reseller?
Yep
At least they are throwing money into something good
Yeah, had the same thoughts when I saw the ad.
I vaguely remember TB's video about the likes of these facilitating draining stolen CCs. Anybody has any details about this particular site?
this game went to 3 console generations wow
3
@@Hack_The_Planet_ oh yeah 😅
Man what a blast from the past. This was one of the first games i bought with my own money. I knew nothing about it, i just thought the cover looked cool at the store. I kept trying to convince myself i hadn't wasted my money, but i never did complete the game in the end.
I remember that a Finnish reviewer amused a thought of buying the trilogy's third game from a foreign shop.
"One Too Human 3, please."
Some baffling gameplay decisions were made in Too Human. Mapping sword swings to the right analog stick was just an awful idea in 2008.
16:09 - "Artists are easily replaceable."
Yeah ... and gaming companies are also easily replaceable !
Serves him right. LOL
Nintendo was the only reason Silicon Knights had any real success due to them forcing some standard of quality on them
This game used to have the weirdest controller layout, attacking was using the two sticks in the same direction
Twin stick controls were not a new concept, even at the time...
@@shadaxgaming example?
One thing Too Human did that I thought was really neat: attacks on the analogue stick. I think Diablo-likes could still do well w/ a similar, albeit, tweaked control scheme. I'm always interested in games that map non-movement inputs to the analogue sticks (see: Skate., Fight Night etc).
Really do actually miss this game. Put a fair amount of time and grind into it.
This kind of malfeasance is why Publishers interfere with Developers, this isn't a defense of the Publisher/Developer model. But there is a reason why it exist.
One of my fav gaming documentary channels!
That bit on the podcast wasn't a "rant". Gaming magazines were brutal in their wording and overly dramatic. So many people put so much effort into making this game and the magazine is rude and insulting.
I recently tried this game, but it's just not that good. There were some areas that visually looked nice, but the combat was dreadful
Eternal Darkness is one of my favorite games of all time. One thing. Eternal Darkness 2 was never a thing because Nintendo owns the IP. Precursor Games which was the new company Denis founded after losing the court battle with Epic was making a spiritual successor of the game called Shadows of Eternal and if I remember correctly they used the Cryengine not the Unreal engine
I actually liked too human, though that dying animation was way too long.
Frankly, I'd not heard of this before. Which makes the bizarre story of this games development even more shocking
It was a pretty big deal in the early 2000’s, pretty sure Xbox gives this game away for free on its store.
@@Hack_The_Planet_ thanks
Growing in this era, I remember this disaster too well. And seeing prior versions of the game, makes you wish to play the wacky Gamecube era version.
Eternal Darkness IP getting buried is one of the greatest injustices in gaming history.
Deep into that Darkness Peering,
Long there I stood,
Wondering, Fearing, Doubting...
We'll ever see a sequel.
I remember finishing this game as a kid and being like "wait.......... what ?......... Did I do something wrong ? Where's the rest ??". lol
me and my mate loved just messing around in this game, the long death animation is still in my nightmares today
I remember the game actually tracked how much time you spent in game. I couldn’t play it for longer than five minutes before I returned it from my rental place.
I find it kinda humorous that they described working on the MGS: The Twin Snakes and Eternal Darkness as keeping the studio away from their "Dream Project", given that those games are the things that the studio is looked at most fondly, while Too Human, that very "Dream Project", and everything that came with it was ultimately what killed the studio. Sometimes, it's the things we do when we're not chasing our dream that becomes our legacy, not the dream itself.
Love this series! Cheers from New Brunswick Canada 🇨🇦
Dennis is a perfect example for people who should never be in a position like he is.
I absolutely loved the idea behind it - a sci-fi bent on Nordic mythology without making barely tolerable action figure shlock. Too bad everything else was, well...
(If you're interested in seeing the sci-fi twist done justice, go grab Apsulov).
I was JUST thinking about this game a few days ago and how much I wished there was a post mortem video about its development.
I loved this game so much. Every play style was amazing and played for months online because the loot system was beyond good. Imagine not hiding stats on the weapon/armor card. Imagine games not giving +2% damage but actual impactful buffs to whatever you want. Imagine actual varied classes that overlap little to no skills with other classes. Extremely miss it.
Oh man. I’ve been waiting for this to be covered. I remember seeing previews of this on the PS1.
This game and its development is unfortunately more a tragic tale about the Ego of Denis Dyack than anything else.
Dude makes Randy Pitchford seem grounded and civilised by comparison
@@ThommyofThenn eh, maybe but I would still take Dennis & his nonsense over Randy’s “issues” any day though.
@@ThommyofThenn and yes I have met Randy, mad amounts of flop sweat 🤣
@@Fuuntag lmao understandable
GAAAMMMERS!!!!
There's a good reason all of the sequels to Legacy of Kain were done by Crystal Dynamics and NOT Silicon Knights. I heard that if it were left up to Silicon Knights they would've never gotten Blood Omen done and it would've sucked if they did. Seems like Dyack NEEDS a publisher to keep him straight.
I remember every announcement with this game ever since the Gamecube days. At no point did I ever think this looked like it was going to be a good game.
Honestly I played a bunch of too human and really enjoyed it
Wow 60 mil for a 360 game, crazy.
Have you ever heard the tragedy of Too human? No? I thought not. Its not a story that Silicone Knights would tell you...
I was pretty young when this released (maybe 13?) but I remember adoring this game and grinding with the homies for two weeks then promptly forgetting it even existed. It holds a similar space for me as Advent Rising; loved it briefly but forgotten quickly
I had the game, didn't hate it. It had potential ❤️
I remember really enjoying the game, there's a lot of fun in the gameplay to be had with some of the builds.
EGM podcast.... The 1UP podcast. MAN that takes me back. WAAAY back. Lol and Shane (huge Sony fan) getting a name drop, of course.
Scary how fast time flies.
i personally played this alot as a kid i felt like it had so much potential was always praying for a sequel were they fixed and expanded
Played thru it fully with a friend. It had some issues and grindy gameplay, but some of the end-game type content felt fun, once you got better gear and a decent build running. At the same time the quality sort of took a nosedive. Game could have used some more finetuning, perhaps another redesign. There was potential there.
I thought this game was pulled off the shelves and not sold anymore but it's on the Microsoft store for Xbox. I remember back in the day when this first came out and all the stores were selling all the new copies for next to nothing trying to get rid of them before they couldn't sell them anymore and then once they couldn't sell them the dumpsters behind all the GameStops were full of them. I found probably 120 brand new sealed copies of it from the dumpster behind my local GameStop when I was like 15 when this came out and sold them at school for 20 bucks a piece. Still got a couple copies lying around
I really loved this game as a kid and revisited it at 22 and loved it again
I was one of those rare people who actually really enjoyed Too Human. For a loot / hack and slash game the controls were remarkably different, and there was a lot of subtlety to the controls I think weren't communicated well by the game.
Not perfect, or even excellent, but for a discount buy it was a lot of fun.
i liked the loot such a shame i could never workout what most of the abilitys did as they had no reference in the game.
I've been waiting for this one. This was one of the first games I closely followed whenever there was a magazine article (game informer, Xbox, etc) talking about it. The downfall of this game was so sad, and everything that came was horrible.
Game had such potential, but the actual gameplay was terrible. That bizarre semi fixed camera that moved on its own for no reason, and the weird controller layout just sucked. Also the waaaaay OP enemies, even the grunts, and the super long death scene were just salt in the wounds.
Silicon Knights: *Sues Epic Games*
Epic Games: So you've chosen death...
I remember playing Too Human, having picked it up a couple years after release used. It wasn't an awful game and there was fun to be had in it, but it definitely did not live anywhere near up to the hype for the game.
I want to pay this man to walk around and narrate my life
12:25 that thread was wild and this story wouldn't be complete without it
I got 2 copies of this game for free when I bought 360 years ago. Still stay sealed somewhere in the closet.
Quality of this channel is unrivaled among video games historian channels👌
Man, I remember hearing about this game getting utterly panned and bought it one day for about £2, then tried playing the co-op with my brother and we had a blast. The game has a lot of problems, bad co-op isn't one of them, and even now the fact I can play it on the latest xbox consoles is a nice nod to such a maligned game. It's a shame the game was so bad as the world it took place in was fascinating, and I'd love to see something else done with it in future.
Co-op isn't as indepth as it should've been. Its functional yes, but they had really big plans. Problem was that they were building a trilogy before getting out a game, so they shat the bed.
man, the talk about "bridging gameplay with story" by simply adding cinematic camera is such pretentious bs, and the exact same attitude that made wannabe movie director devs consider video games inferior medium, and like they need to prove otherwise by hindering gameplay for a cinematic story, rather than using videogaming's strengths
I honestly liked too human as a teenager and I was sad to see this game had a bad development cycle.
I don’t get the criticism about the graphics, it looks just like Gears of War… and that’s pretty much the pinnacle of graphics on Xbox 360.
Anyhow, Silicon Knights seems to have lost the vision on the game right after jumping g the boat for the GameCube.
I remember playing this and I do not remember thinking it was so terrible not game of the year or anything but it didn't feel like the epic disaster that it apparently was.
Too Human, a guilty pleasure of mine. Fond memories of playing this game over and over again with friends.
Eternal Darkness is still my favorite survival horror game. Twin Snakes made an awesome title (MGS) even better.
So I was completely on board for Too Human, and then jumped off about 4 hours into its horrible experience.
sounds exactly like every company in the gaming industry. some dork nerd programmer forms a start-up company and makes a sick indie game, then gets ridiculous money and starts running a company with no idea how to manage employees
10:49 what camera work
The collapse of Silicon Knights is a cautionary tale of why you DO NOT announce and hype your game too early. Sometimes, it's much better to STFU about it until it's closer to release. It's also imperative to come up with a good, realistic plan and follow it. Silicon Knights announced Too Human, too early and then didn't stick to their plan. They kept changing it. When the game finally debuted, it was nothing like what was previously shown or promised. People expected Cyberpunk but got THAT? Too much jank, horribly unpolished. After 10 years of development, that's it? As far as the poor leadership goes, well, that's a problem in many industries. Bullies with no ability to lead but want to be uplifted as great leaders given positions of power. Sad.
I actually really enjoyed this game. See, i'd never heard of it, prior to buying it....never heard any of the controversy, or hype, so i went into it without all that baggage. It was on a shelf, i looked at the back, said "hey, this sounds pretty cool", and i bought it, and i played it, and i really liked it. I was so pissed to find out that i'd never get the rest of the story, because it was damn cool.
Great video. I always wanted to play this when I was younger. Was really disappointed when it got bad reviews and then later all unsold copies destroyed.
Lmao that 10:48 zoom in on the controller 😂
the building silicon knights used to be in is now abandoned. they really cratered that studio. sad. so much wasted talent
do history of Legacy of Kain, pls
*starts on dead island 2 reveal trailer w/Jack black* -oh my heart 💔
I bought Too Human when I was a teen, it was on outlet and sold for 90NOK (around 8.39 euro back in 2009). Played it for a few hours, put it down and forgot about it.
A few years later, I started to play through the story of the X360 games I had, but not played yet, and it is still on the list. Now I just need a tv, couch or a comfy chair, and a weekend or two to just finish the game.
Ya know, I actually enjoyed this game.
I loved the setting. Loved it. One of a kind.
The combat was unique, could’ve used more polish but unique.
Rpg elements like the different builds you could make was too good for its own good.
Some of the background scenery was aw inspiring.
It wasn’t without its blemishes, of course. But it had potential.
I really hoped back then for the other games of the series to come out.
Love the video.