Customer Saved the Engine! Caught in time! Ford 5.4l 3-valve Triton 2012 Expedition
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- THIS IS PT 1: Customer Saved the Engine! Caught in time! Ford 5.4l 3-valve Triton 2012
PT 2: Setting up VVT! Timing Chain | Ford 5.4L 2012 Expedition Cam Followers at the End! • Setting up VVT! Timing...
PT 3: First Start FAIL! Valvetrain Rebuild! Ford 5.4 3-valve. • First Start FAIL! Valv...
FINAL Part! Running BAD! Stalling AFTER Timing Chains! Ford 5.4l 3-valve Expedition • Running BAD! Stalling ...
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Link to PT2 ua-cam.com/video/f5JWLw5nDUw/v-deo.html
Onto part 2 👍
It seems that the wear you pointed out was on the inside of the chai . The housing only contacts the outside of the chain. How did the wear get on the inside of the chain?
@@HouseCallAutoRepair That's what I thought as well.
@@HouseCallAutoRepair Thats what I thought? On that drivers side chain I wondered if with the reduced oil pressure on the tensioner and the broken section on the fixed guide, the chain became so loose and slack that the chain was whipping and causing the inside of the chain to clash together as the camshaft flicked over lobes. Or the chain may have been hitting on one of the guide bolts if its head was slightly proud of the guide?
Instead of pushing the valve springs down individually I would have loosened the cams altogether and had all the rockers out in 5 minutes. But that's just me. I'd rather work smarter not harder. But to each their own. Iv been a mechanic for 15 years and there's stuff that I learned from @rainman ray's repairs and there's stuff that I watched him do that I would have done differently to make better time. All in all I apload respect and admire Ray. Thanks for the videos. I highly enjoy every video you have made soo far..
As Watch Wes Work calls it, the 5.4 Hand Grenade with the Change Engine light on.
😂🤣😂 Wes has a great way of describing things
@@rickchowsr2532 Can't forget Wes' 7.4 leaker engine, took me a while to get it.
Ha ha ha he is right there gosh ford almost had a good thing there then came the three valve.
@@johnhoward6201 lol
Wes gets some real doozy equipment thru his shop
I love watching a competent, honest mechanic work his craft.
this is basically like watching open heart surgery - massive respect to the mechanics that can do things like this!
Yep, agreed. Folks like Ray are yugely underappreciated.
only 1 minute into the video, but had to leave a comment that this will be fun to watch! I just completed my timing job on my '08 expedition with the 5.4 3v engine literally last week, it was a huge job to undertake and in my dirt driveway next to my RV none the less, but I got 'er done. new timing chains, guides, phasers, all 24x roller followers, camshafts, oil pump ( melling ), serp belt, spark plugs, ignition coils, I even went the extra mile and bought the Melling cast iron tensioners and kept the plastic new ones in storage. I followed the FordTechMakuloco video series to the T, with the ford timing kit from amazon, and boy she purrs like a kitten now. I did have broken guide pieces at the bottom of the timing cover and also a big chunk inside of the oil pan, also the seal was blown on both tensioners. it was very expensive to do, probably about 3,500$ in parts and tools, but you know what - I have a lot more tools now than I did before, and i'm driving my expy smiling knowing that I saved her life and also know that I did the job carefully and with a crap load of brand new shiny parts! she drives really good now.
Some people say - put the better high volume pump in it - well that isn't always the answer and here is why
The cause is how the oil flow design in the upper end of this engine is - feeds from one driver side which is typically always clean and the passenger which typically looks dirty - pcv circulation here is poor as well and causes alot of the discoloration as well ( I forget what side gets darker or oil flow first but you get the point here ).
The fix is more service more often and a decent flush every couple months - like BG EPR - AND KEEPING SOME Mmo in the oil
The newer pump will help but there are other steps that are more critical that are more important
** a huge thing with these after doing this job is to not use cheap aftermarket parts **
Be very careful when putting the valve covers back on because if you slightly nick the vct timing leg / finger you'll get correlation codes when done
Explains why my 4.6l heads are differently tarnished, one head looks brand new, other looks shit covered. Interesting
Maintaining these engines is most important for sure. I'm over 200k on mine and it runs great. Thing is no matter how you care for these engines the plastic chain guides will degrade due to age alone at some point. Then once you pull the engine apart to repair you might as well put in the improved higher volume oil pump.
@@darkmachine165 anytime you see that on any engine its because the pcv valve is on the dirty bank, its not just ferd that does it, however even the coyotes do that
what is Mmo oil?
@@Franklinveterinarycenter1of4 Marvel Mystery Oil
Can we just appreciate how he can do so many things one handed?!
his wife would probably say the same...
Videos like this give me a true appreciation for why it costs as much as it does to replace a timing chain. This is no small amount of work, plus the cost of the tools involved.
This post was made by someone that has no idea what they are talking about.
The mechanics never see the price of your service kicked down to them!
The shop sees almost all of the profit and the guy with $10,000 tool box worth of tools just to get in the door is getting paid shxt!
The cars we used to think were hard to work on were a breeze compared to some of the nightmare jobs of today. With shop labor rates of 125.00/ hr or more coupled with the price of parts a job like this would easily total an older or high mile car!
@@baconstrips6260 This may be why there is such a shortage of skilled technicians today. To be fair, the shop owners are getting killed by rent increases, insurance and overhead. A lot of the chains only do the “gravy” jobs because of this!
@@baconstrips6260 Your post was made by a guy who has no idea what he is talking about. Any 1st class mechanic that has been working for a several years has about eighty thousand dollars (or more) invested in tools and tool cabinets .And the guy commenting about the cost of repairs wasn't singling out the mechanic specifically he was addressing the cost of repairs. A mechanic really doesn't care what the shop makes. And if he owns his own shop he certainly knows what he charges wouldn't he ? Before you throw stones best you secure your glass house.
Thats because it's a junk ford (or any other overhead engine, especially a V-8). On a Chevy v-8 pushrod engine a timing chain costs $20 for chinesium, or $50 for a Cloyes double roller. Takes me about 3 hours to change one. These Fords are junk, i.e. spark plugs, fuel pump relay is stupid expensive.
Ray, the quality of your videos, the editing, and the inclusion of up-close views are all top-notch in your videos. You are doing a great job and I am getting addicted to your content!
What a PITA.. I've done several timing chains on my own cars over the years but none on the newer models. Ford should be ashamed of themselves for that mess. Good job Ray!
Mt Stepdad had one of these. His went "Kaboooooom" !! at 25,000 Miles. He bought an Chevrolet LS.
no way. it looks worse than it is. believe or not it's easier than a bowtie 5.7
@@mikesilanskis1 no one saying it's "hard" to do per se, it's a PITA because it's incredibly time consuming when compared to an LS. Ask ANYONE - they'd rather do a timing job on an LS vs this abomination ford engineers decided to go with
@@mikesilanskis1 lol what?! LS timing chains are way easier than these😂 i can get those out within an hour depending on what vehicle it is
The primary problem was those oil control temperatures the gaskets blew out and caused a big mess why they had to go that route is beyond me don't you just love engineers have a good day thank you
I stumbled onto your channel by accident and am glad I did. I applaud the diagnostic logic you employ. This applies to the use of the scan tool mainly. But, I've seen you use it to isolate problems (sensor/wiring/computer module). My 6 years in the US Navy (4 at sea) as an ET, I learned much from senior techs and passed my knowledge to newer techs later on. Bravo sir!!!
Ray definitely has diagnostic diagnostic ability and the ability also to head right to the source of the problem using various tools and the right application of disassemble and assemble said vehicles as far as you sir I'd like to thank you and the ladies that serve this country so the rest of America can enjoy the freedoms that we have thank you very much have a good day
Absolutely incredible! IMHO, your best video yet. From someone who can just about manage to refuel, check oil, coolant and washer fluid levels, and occasionally inflate a tyre, this blows my mind. I find it totally absorbing. Your knowledge, patience and skills are inspirational. I have no idea what a job like this would cost the customer, or how much you would get paid to do it, but whatever it is, it’s not enough! All UA-cam videos should aspire to this standard.
Cost to the customer is probably around 2500-3000. Labor time on these is I believe around 12 hours, plus a good service manager will take care of his tech and “pad” the labor for the tech at no cost to the customer so let’s say 15 hours, a good master technician should be making around 30 dollars an hour. So let’s say 15 hours labor at 30 dollars an hour, do the math and that’s a rough estimate what a tech would get paid to do this job 😁
@@2491kridge Expensive job. But a lot less than a new engine.
@@2491kridge How does one “pad” the labor with no charge to the customer? That is a miserable job and even the best techs with the proper tools would have a tough time beating book time on this. If they can, more power to them!
@@craigjorgensen4637 yes jobs like this can be hard to beat book time especially if it’s your first time doing one. What I mean by padding the labor at no charge to the customer: a big job typically includes everything you need to do to get the job done and the customer will pay that let’s say 12 hours labor that the job includes, the service manager can then take other tasks that you may have to do during the job and they will add that onto the ticket but zero out the cost that way the tech gets the extra labor but the customer doesn’t bare the extra cost. For example the job he’s doing here, the valve covers need to be replaced to do the timing cover obviously, the labor for the valve covers are included in the timing chain labor, but a service manager could then add “replace valve covers” onto the ticket and then zero the cost that way the labor time still adds onto the ticket so the tech can get an extra 1.5 hours but the customer doesn’t pay any extra because their already paying for that in the timing chain labor.
@@2491kridge I still don’t understand but that”s OK. Thanks for the explanation!
I owned a 5.4L in a 2006 Navigator, had purchased the timing set from Ford but never put it in. At 219K Miles, I was talked in to selling the vehicle (which I've already regretted. It's the BEST towing vehicle I've ever driven.) The only time I had problems was when the coil packs started going bad (around 180K) but those were pretty easy fixes. At 190K I replaced them all and changed all of the plugs (I paid good money for the Lysle Broken Plug tool, which insured that I wouldn't break any. I didn't.).
We own another 5.4L 3V in a 2013 Expedition that we bought about a year ago. It's the first time I ever bought a vehicle warranty, and it covered anything that the oil touches. It paid off. Two weeks after we purchased the vehicle, the timing chains started slapping and had a knock in the lower end of the engine (@ 112K miles). The warranty not only covered it, but the local Ford Dealer installed a brand new, complete Ford Engine that I got to break in and do the oil changes as I prefer. I did the first at 500 miles, the second at 3K, and the next and from now on at 4-5K miles (5W-20 Motorcraft Synthetic Blend, of course.), like I did with the Navigator, and it had nowhere near the varnish build up that the engine in this video has.
The only thing that I really don't like about this engine is at the gas pump. The Expedition is Flex-Fuel, we burn Regular and get an average of 16-17 combined mpg, whereas the Navigator ran 91 Octane and got 15-17 average combined mpg. The Navigator was a good deal "Quicker", though, and that 5.4L 3V turned it into 3 tons of fun, would pass durn near anyone and it was really cool towing a camper up a mountain with the cruise on and passing all of those little rice burners that had passed me on level ground.
Really, other than regular maintenance, I've not had to do much in the line of repairs on the 5.4L 3V at all.
Now, my brother-in-law had one with high mileage that was running just fine and, for some wild reason, decided to switch from 5W-20 (that is recommended) to 10W-30. The engine didn't last two weeks after that.
Ford has updated the roller rockers with smaller oiling holes and at a different angle for more direct oil flow on the cam lobes, also any other phaser but oem will come apart. Plus melling HV340 oil pump upgrade adds 20% more volume. Fords also updated the gasket on the tensioners as well. Great video as always.
good to hear!!!
It's not about the gasket if they had a spring loaded tensioner instead of oil regulated with the gasket it wouldn't have had this problem sorry guy have a good day
@@michaelpressman7203 They did upgrade the tensioner, less likely to leak. But still allows slack in chain during startup.
The valve tool @$220 was well worth the money Ray. There’s so much more working modern car engines, no winder maintenance costs are high. Great job so far. Much respect from a old spanner man.
You're a good sport, there's no way I would have done that job ,without pulling the motor.
it's really not that bad... I just completed mine, and i'm not that experienced with mechanical work at all! just oil changes, minor repairs here and there on my own vehicles, with FordTech's videos it really makes the job clear-cut.
I got the 5.4 2V it's a champ, runs great at 340,000 miles. The only reason I haven't gotten a newer truck is the whole 3 Valve catastrophe, Ford's motto I guess was if it's not broke, fix it until it is. Great video.
Same here. owned '06 e350 superD van. That 2 valve is a gem, mine got totaled lastyear, i miss it Bro!! It had a 351 kinda feel to it....
The 2.7, 3.5, and 5.0 are all great engines.
And once again engineers have to justify their job they got to come up with something to do have a good day
I’ve done this before on my 05 F150 and the passenger side is an absolute beast to remove. Getting it back on and keeping the gaskets in place is also a bear. You will probably find this job very frustrating.
I use SuperGlue to hold the gaskets in place till they're fastened down. Works Great ! Just clean the gasket valley with brake cleaner before. SuperGlue is clear and never shows.
Putting two part keepers in a V8 Chevy 350 was fun enough for me have a good day
You are a brave man… due to previous jobs, all I recommend now is a reman engine. Doing just chains never solves the problem.
You should talk the customer into the high flow oil pump. That is one of the causes of roller/follower, timing chain, phaser failure. Definitely take a look at fordmakuloco channel. He is the man when it comes to the 5.4 3v. I do have that motor in my 06 f150. I have been lucky so far with mine. It only has 150,000 mi. This job is the most common issue, besides the spark plugs, for the 5.4. And will be doing it here before long.
Th cause.... is not the pump
The cause is how the oil flow design in the upper end of this engine is - feeds from one driver side which is typically always clean and the passenger which typically looks dirty
The fix is more service more often and a decent flush every couple months
The newer pump will help but there are other steps that are more critical that are more important
@@FordBossMe What flush do you suggest?
@@FordBossMe yep dumb design. Why would you do a flush? If you are changing your oil like you should, every 3000- 5000mi, you wouldn't need to flush. It a good idea at around 150kmi to go ahead and change the follower, chain, phasers, oil pump, and lash adjusters to the improved design. Which allows for better oil flow.
@@chrisburgdorf7469 oil alone depending on the type seems to have alot of varnish build up
Ever heard deboss garage say he doesn't like synthetic oils? Why is that?
Synthetic oils seem to varnish inside engines that get hot quit often depending on how or what the engine is Made of
Bg epr is a great flush to keep the junk out of the oil gallery and mmo keeps everything slick and lubricated and moving
@@chrisburgdorf7469 cheap phasers fail faster like doorman phasers
A nice flush from time to time will only help and no take away - this part is not debatable honestly - fords are my thing these engines need them periodically
The updated pump design? We'll if you have build up in areas oil can't get to rhe pump is worthless anyway because the engine needs cleaned out to get the oil there
'06 Expedition. Started hearing the clatter for a second on startup about 110k miles. Did a complete timing job replacing everything except the oil pump with Ford Motorcraft OEM parts. Installed a new Melling M340HV oil pump, and since the valve covers were off I went ahead and replaced the roller followers too. Put it all back together, and upped the oil weight to 5w-30 full synthetic. That was about 20k miles ago, and I gotta say, this motor runs as smoothly as it did the day I drove it home. Shout out to FordTechMakuloco for suggesting the Melling oil pump and roller follower swap.
I know of 3 people at work that have had this same repair done on their f150. One told me the quote was almost $3400 for the job.
I really appreciate the videos Ray. I used to turn wrenches but went another direction in my career.
Joe
I can confirm this as I had mine timing replaced. But also had to replace two cam phasers and water pump since they were already in the timing area.
@@bearing_aficionado I would always replace the phasers with a timing chain replacement on one of these engines.
@@bearing_aficionado is a smart man!
@@bearing_aficionado that's really cheap, that's probably not including much for parts, just what ever is particularly needed. I spent about that much in parts and tools for mine, but i got a HELL of a lot of new parts squeezed in, plus a plethora of new tools ( kinda went ham and got me a milwuakee compressor, milwuakee sockets, etc etc ).
Yes I look at it $33,400 where you going to buy for that price nowadays somebody else's headache though I understand as far as spinning ranches did that swinging hammers on that making metal tips done that Bill's houses done that and I love all of it it all comes together once it's amazing how one trade will help you with another and it never hurts to learn as much as you can while you even if you don't do it for a living if you own a home you can fix your own stuff fix your own cars and have a great day
I worked for the company that produced the special machines that machined the heads for Ford. We did all the machining like the valve seats, all the flat surfaces and all the bolt holes. I remember that this equipment was produced to handle more than the 5.4. It also did the V 10 as well. Called flex machining.
That's where cncs have diversity with a new program and new jigs infection and tooling you can modify and you could switch parts out on the production floor lot of times especially for safety concern with ocean and all that they didn't want people to get hurt they make all this material handling parts handling for the assembly line and there's single use they can't be used for anything else in part of that gets rolled into the cost of a vehicle nowadays I understand we have to make things safer and better but disappoint where it gets stupid when you got guys you have to use a machine to lift up a tire and torque it for him and tell him when it's done I mean really I've changed the tire of my driveway it ain't rocket science I've changed them on the road it ain't rocket science though things sometimes get a little carried away have a good day bye
I always thoroughly enjoy your videos. Watching them should be mandatory for a customer who complains about the amount of time charged for labor.
My mechanic told me sternly DO NOT BUY A 5.4 3v and what did I do? I bought a 5.4 3v and I am very close to having him do this exact job to mine. Can’t stress enough use ONLY Ford timing components in these engines or they will fail. I’ve removed my valve covers a few times now and just that job I wanted to burn the truck. I give you a lot of credit for not refusing this job 👍. You definitely got a tappy tap on the like button for this.
I agree with Ray on what he says in the video "This won't happen on a GM engine" on a GM engine it would just bend push rods and collapse lifters from AFM and DFM systems they both have there problems
No way ...chevy engines never run that long...all the wiring fails long before the engine has a chance to eat itself.
not to mention bad harmonic balancer issues, and the lack of a priority main oiling system. makes me miss my LT5 motor more every day.
My wife had a 2007 Expedition with the 5.4 Triton for 10 years. I liked that engine, never had a problem. If I had to complain, it would be the spark plugs in the back, they are tucked under the firewall. Other than that, it was a reliable SUV. I think I got 125K+ miles out of it. If it wasn’t totaled by hail, we would still have it.
it wasn't driven enough miles to have issues 😂😂
Mine had 46k and needed to be rebuilt, I know 3 others had to have new engines at 100k POS engine.
My back aches just watching you do this job. How on earth do you keep track of all the bits and pieces when you go to reassemble? I guess that is why you are the pro.
My back aches just watching them and I'm sitting in my chair doing nothing but watching him but that's what all men do hey I thought about working on my car today it didn't happen hey thanks for a have a good day
At 2:50, he mentioned how he keeps track of things like nuts, bolts, washers and screws. They get placed back inside the holes where they came from, and then that item is placed off to the side. Small, softer parts like hoses are placed on the cowl, on the side they came from, probably oriented in the direction they were in while installed. I think sometimes items are placed on top of others deliberately to indicate that they get installed in order from top to bottom. He didn't spend much time discussing it, only a few seconds, so it was probably pretty easy to miss. The only reason I picked it out so easily is because that's exactly what my dad taught me when I was probably nine or 10 years old. It doesn't matter what I'm disassembling, that's how I was taught, and that's how I approach disassembly. These days, it's a lot easier because damn near everyone of us carries the ability to take instant, zoomable pictures, so there's no need to take the film out, wait a day or so for processing, then going to pay for developing, only to find out that we took shitty pictures of what we were trying to do. But anyway, just keeping the workspace organized, taking pictures, and placing fasteners back in the correct location of the part.
What a job!
It kind of reminds me of an Audi RS6 my daughters partner was working on doing the same type of repair. To do that you had to remove the whole front of the car.
Not so bad if you are in a dealership.
A bit more awkward if you are in an ordinary professional garage.
Very awkward if you are doing this in your own home garage.
But he did his in the street outside his house.
It was a task and a half!
But he is the most thorough person I know, and he breezed it.
Well done for such a great video.
Absolutely love your videos ray, I have never owned one of those because I heard about all of the awful things that happened to them and definitely decided to steer clear of that I love watching you work I love how organized you are how detailed you are and I love your sense of humor looking forward to part 2 and part 3! Will be here eagerly waiting hope you also remember to have yourself a good day! Peace out!
~Loyal fan from Fort Worth Texas
What a nightmare...
I'm feeling anxiety, but I can't look away, kudos to your skill and patience
The unpredictability of this problem is scary too. I’ve worked on oil-field trucks with 250,000 miles, and innumerable idle hours that still hadn’t had this issue, but I’ve done this job (or replaced the engine) on vehicles with less than 60,000 miles.
I have no experience with fleet service, but I've heard stories running the gamut from meticulous routine maintenance all the way to pencil-whipped non maintenance.
In civilian garages I was always surprised by regular people who don't skimp on proper care and feeding. My point is that a vehicle with a bad reputation but is well maintained is better than a solidly built vehicle that gets treated like it was stolen, as in brakes that have been metal on metal for some time "just started making noise".
It is scary.
I've got a 5.4 in a 03 with 120,000 miles. Stupid ? But how do I know if it's 3v?
@@jupitercyclops6521 3 valve did not come out till late 04.stick with the 2 valve little less power and eats more fuel but more reliable
@@robertsnyder5531
Thanks for the reply!
@@jupitercyclops6521 that wasn’t a stupid question. Besides the spark plugs occasionally blowing out (just torque them correctly) the 2v 5.4’s were good engines. I’ve seen many of those with 300k+ miles. The death of most here vehicles is rust.
I had a 2005 F-150 that got the rattle around 150K. I knew it was something in the valve train and toyed with the idea of doing it myself, and after watching a number of you-tube videos I was convinced I *could* do it. I would probably need to take a week off work. Decided to take it to a local garage. They did it in 2 days. It was worth the price (ended up being a broken tensioner).
That's gona be an expensive repair! Impressed with your abilities to squeeze into the engine bay!
Good video. Wish the mechanic who worked on my valve train 5 weeks ago had been half as good. He found a damaged spring on an exhaust valve in my 6.7 Cummins Limited RAM 3500 dually (only 57,000 miles onit), 6 days and 126 miles after installing new lifter, spring ,retainers etc on it it dropped that valve. The dealership are currently installing a new engine, under warranty. A total pain in the arse.
The disassembly went very well. Hopefully the reassembly will run just as smoothly.
Looking forward to re-assembly of the engine! This is nerve-wracking , especially with the "head-banging music playing! Thanks for posting!
I've done this repair. It is easier to remove the cams and remove the followers that way. Since you are doing the timing chain as well especially.
Yeah, I've done this a few times. Tried that stupid tool once, never again. Removing the cam is way easier.
Was saying this the whole time... That tool is IF you dont want to remove the chains!. Since you have the front cover off, remove the chains and remove the cams!.
I love your attention to details. You don't just pull a part and swap it out. You examine them to find out why they stopped working they way they were designed. Great work and keep it up. You are a credit to mechanics.
Just had this done on wife's 2011 expedition. Had oil pump upgraded to high flow while I was in there. 2200 in labor and 1700 in parts. But cheaper than a new engine for sure, or new vehicle. Hopefully I'll get another 140k out of it!
From what I've heard, once the factory defects are corrected theyre great engines as long as the owner keeps up with the maintenance.
Raymond, my good man, you are indeed a "ROCKET SURGEON"!
Ok, nightmare job to be sure. Still amazes me as to how you just plunge into a job like this. Pulling bits off left right and centre. Nuts bolts flying every which way. But at the end of the day still know where each bit goes.Totally amazes me l certainly would not know where to start.Frightening really.
But it show’s your vast knowledge of engines etc.
Great vid , entertaining as always. Great work Ray .
Definitely makes my day watching you at work. Totally fearless and dedicated.
Which brings me to reminding you to have a great day. Back ache and all😃😃👍🇬🇷
Ray, you are living the life I wanted to live. After going down a different path at 59 years of age I regret every minute of it. Keep yourself strong. This job will ruin your body. Keep up the good work
"How do you keep track of all the fasteners?"
The classic question asked of us mechanics.
It's really quite simple. You put them all in a container, or you distribute them all around the lips on the quarter guards, the arms of the hoist, and all over the bench.
Then when you're finished re-assembling the vehicle, generally there's none left.
On occasion, there's an extra bolt, and when you see it, you know where it came from by it's shape and size alone.
If it's an important one, (like a bell housing bolt, or a sub frame bolt, something REALLY serious like a brake caliper bolt) you put the vehicle back in the air and put it in it's hole. If it's the second bolt for a shitty little bracket that holds a harness with two wires in it and nothing else (that you had to fight with and lost skin while removing it from the back of the cylinder head while leaning over the hot engine with your tongue hanging out, blind and on one leg with one eye shut and only able to get 1/32nd of a turn without repositioning your spanner) you throw it over your shoulder and continue on to the next rust bucket.
I got buckets full of those
Thank you for this professional and detailed explanation for keeping your nuts safe, giggity
Lol. On big engine jobs I just put every bolt with its parts. It saves my brain and keeps my magnetic trays free for all the sockets I'm using and the bolts as I take them out. Seems more time consuming, but when it comes to putting a job back together (especially if it's a week later) it's a super breeze just grabbing each part with its bolts.
Those are known as Whee ! bolts !
often you can’t find out where they came from because you have done whatever they did more sensibly !
I just throw all fasteners on the floor and make sure they get ground into the oil dri when I walk on them.
Very interesting Ray. Noted you had to pay for your own special tools. In Australia, I was a motor mechanic and diesel mechanic (2 different trades here) in the late 70s 80s and part of the 90s and we had to supply all our own tools up to half inch drive, everything bigger or specialist tools are supplied by the company just a fun fact. Love your work, but actually you bring back Many nightmares and happy achievements in my days as a mechanic. Love your Entertaining commentary, cheers Jaime
First, loved the video. Second, yes, I own two of them. Third, it's a Ford. Serviceability sucking is built in (And I'm a Ford guy through and through).
YOU'RE TELLING PETEY NOT TO SAY A CUSS WORD WHILE KID ROCK IS PLAYING IN THE BACKGROUND-HILARIOUS.
The way you was sitting on the radiator support defiantly makes you feel older that's for sure. I miss the older vehicles like from the 80s and back when I could actually sit in the engine compartment
I can sit in the engine bay of my 95 Silverado
I had to pull the heads off of a 69 Ford F250, after the first time I did it I realized it was easier to pull the radiator and just climb in. The giant FE block intake manifold was a beast.
@@Paramount531 on my business card I have a picture of me standing in the engine bay of my 73 F350 390. Just take the fan, shroud and radiator off and its far easier to stand inside it.
Love it!
Were....
Open " heart " surgery!! So much work involved. You are the man Ray !! Wish I could send my 06 Volvo "EV"90 V8 for valve cover gaskets. [Exxon Valdez]
Wow Ray. Back breaking work for sure! Great video as always. Much appreciated. Some day someone will make an engine that is on slide rails that unscrew from the frame with quick disconnect from the Transmission etc.
Its funny you mention that, sometime way back in the 1910's and 20s there was a truck manufacturer that did that, it was Maccar trucks. They had a modular body and claimed you could change the entire engine in 30 minutes on their trucks. Check them out
You mean like a vw beetle?
WOW! Knowing what's all involved in doing a timing chain I'm kinda glad I have the 2008 F250 with a bit bigger engine compartment to work in. I'm really thankful that you put this video up to show all the procedure to be done.
Wayda go there.
Cheers!
Please forgive if this is a silly question from a back yard mechanic .. since you have the fiddly job to remove the followers needing special tools and your plan is to replace the chains etc as well, would it not be simpler to remove the cams themselves? I would have thought this would allow inspection of the cam seats as well plus be easier/quicker to do without the special tool needed. Im guessing this would make it more complicated in another way but curious as to why you choose the fiddly path.
Exactly the question that I had, On any engines that I have changed the cam chain on, I have set the engine so that the timing marks line up before stripping, replaced parts, checked that they were still set and put it back together. Most times it is just a few hours work. But then again, I work on 4 and 5 cylinder motors, or the odd V6, but not American not V8s. Happily most have timing belts these days its rare to find a timing chain.
But then he couldn't justify buying/using a new tool!
First thing I thought of, if you can get the chain off, why mess with cam followers anyways. While I'm here, might as well? I wouldn't think so.
@@Mcgiever100 The Cam Followers are notorious for breaking at the point where the roller bearing shaft connects to the follower body, causing a dropped valve or dead hole. If you do one of these engines, its prudent to change them and they're very affordable.
I removed the cams when I did one. Makes it much easier to replace everything. You just gotta line up the cams properly and evenly tighten the cam caps down slowly so you don't strip the threads out of the head.
i have a new appreciation for the old school v8's , one you can see the engine , two roller rockers are easy to work on , and no damn chains.... luv ya work dude
If customer plans on keeping it, I recommend a Melling high flow oil pump. Keep up the great work Ray
Question; If the Oil Passages in the motor do not change. How can an Oil Pump flow more oil ? Would it not just raise the pressure ? AM I Brain Dead ? 💩
@@vaccumme check out FordTechmakuloco he has numerous videos that explain this. He's literally 1 of the beat resources for the 5.4 3v
@@acidburner420 I APPROVE OF THIS MESSAGE!
He did say he put in a melling pump.
@@marioreali5925 I watched the latest Video this morning. I'm wondering if it would not have been more prudent to replace the entire engine ? Your thoughts. V.
Holy Moly! Batman, I mean Ray. That customer is lucky it's you doing the work.
Every shop needs a "petey". I was there once. Started out as a floor sweeper, trash gatherer, parts chaser, etc. Asked questions of the mechanics, watched them work, learned theory of carburetors, brakes, wheel alignment , generator and regulator operation. All aspects of vehicle operation and maintenance.
Replaced the timing set on a Ford pickup. Got it all put back together. Cranked over just fine but would not start. I then noticed the crank reluctor wheel sitting on the work bench. My heart sank and I knew what I had to do.
Ford should be held accountable for this repair, they have known about this design flaw for quite some time!
The Ford motor company IS a design flaw.
@@mariosaccoccio1688 facts! Just too much bad engineering and I am holding Ford accountable. They will never ever get my business again.
blame the greenies & epa, not car manufacturers. euro 6 emmisions, have zero, coming out the exhaust.. go hug a tree.. ill bring the chainsaw..
@@mariosaccoccio1688 At least at Ford, they circle the problem.
@@harrywalker5836 at last someone who agrees with me I absolutely hate tree huggers and when anyone from the Green Party comes along I shout hypocrite at them, do they sit in the dark and cold at night?, don’t think so
the most underappreciated person doing this honestly and successfully
I would have loved to heard the scraping sound it was making. Sound like VERY useful information for any or the poor SOB's that might own one of these rigs. I'm sure they would love to save their engine if possible.
People go on about the price of some of these jobs but look at it versus buying a new vehicle or New to you vehicle it's worth the investment that's the way I look at it it's called maintenance by the way thanks to Ray have a great day
@@michaelpressman7203 totally agree I would keep my 2012 truck as well hats off to the person who decided to just get there truck fixed instead of paying a monthly payment
Enjoyed this video. I owned a new 2004 F-150 Lariat with the 3v engine. Did not change the plugs until I had 160000 miles on it due to the potential to break off plugs. Once I got the tool (version 3) to remove a broken plug I ended up breaking 7 of 8 plugs following Fords recommended procedure. At 209000 miles I started to hear the timing chain noises. Bit the bullet and got rid of it in 2021. Still loved my F-150 and babied and took care of it. Feel lucky it lasted 17 years with very few problems. Now I have a Tacoma 2.7 L. Probably out live me.
So Ray, do you look forward to the chance to focus on one long highly involved job like this, or do you prefer to work on a number of smaller jobs in the same timespan? Seems like both options have their pluses and minuses.
And I wonder if Peetah realizes how much joy he brings to 301,000 people he doesn't know when he pays you a visit :)
I always want to try these jobs out at work, I like a challenge and to learn something new. But what is frustrating is the other guys doing suspension, gaskets or more medium duty jobs and end up beating me out. These jobs cannot be rushed. But I'd say the most money is not in there but the medium duty jobs
I bought a 2011 Ford Expedition about 2 years ago with 96,000 miles. I had put a whole new engine in for same reasons but the damage was all the way up in the cams. Went with a Frasier engine over a Jasper. Better warranty and less expensive. Took me five days on my own to rip the old one out and slam the new one in. It now has 130,000+ miles and running great. Thanks for these videos, they are fun to watch and helpful when trying to explain to my wife under the shade tree.
All that debris and dust landing on the cams makes a good case for keeping the engine clean over the years. Or for a good wash and scrub to be part of this service...
@rainmanraysrepairs this popped up in my feed today so thought I'd leave an update. Engine now has 189000+ miles on it and has been from Sarasota to SC, NV, MT, ID and back across the country to CT...all pulling a 2013 Charger on a uhaul vehicle hauler. Can't thank you enough for all the work you did...my family is grateful.
Great work as always Ray. Vehicles these days are getting too complicated. I own a Camaro with a LS3 due to the lack of DOD lifters and the presence of a Manual transmission.
They're complicated for sure, but they're also smaller, more powerful, lighter and more fuel efficient. That's the tradeoff.
I'd rather have a modern engine than ant 80s-early 2000s POS any day.
Man, this video gives me flashbacks to the 5.4 I had that I done plugs, followers, lifters, and phasers on
Curious as to why you spent so long removing the rockers before removing the chain, would it not be faster to lift the cams after removing the chains etc and removing all the rockers at the same time?
my thoughts exactly
Sure you could pull the cams and save yourself a lot of grief, but you'd still have to put the cams back in without the rockers and do the depress valve thing while moving the crank stuff anyway. The reason is that you have to put everything back in TDC so its in time and if you do it with the rockers installed, you will force at least 1 valve down into a piston and the job will then become a head replacement or even worse.
So the idea is... have the cams installed, valves installed, leave the rockers out until you are at TDC, put chain, phasers on and then slowly install each rocker/follower as you turn the entire assembly. By not removing the cams, he is also not having to deal with torque specs for each cam journal cap, not risking snapping the camshaft due to flex, etc.
@@gregorytaylor862 You don't know what you're talking about, you lift the cams off so you can take all the rockers out as the cam is in the way.
The reverse of that is to place all the rockers in and tighten the cams down on top of them, you obviously have to make sure you bolt the cams on in the right place as not to bend valve buy that's east enough done!!
@@scottbishop7899 let me know how that works out for you.
Meanwhile I’ll stick to the method every ASE master tech will tell you is right. Which is what Ray is doing
@@gregorytaylor862 Then if your method runs the risk of dropping valves inside of cylinders while doing it the 'correct' way then it's obviously poorly thought out!! ... just saying ...
You have an amazing attitude towards attacking these auto issues, knowledgeable and talented, thankyou love all ur videos, honesty always the best policy
Lol. I like Pete. He's quite the character xD I also love these more internal engine repair videos
I really like “Pee-Tah” also (I think that’s the spelling the way Ray pronounces it), it definitely makes the day and the job more enjoyable when one or more of the people around you have a good sense of humor. A good sense of humor can make your marriage, job, and your life so much easier if you can laugh about even the bad parts, then the good parts are even more fun! If you’re having a bad day and someone else is having a bad day too, just say “Let’s go act foolish” and the day will already start to go better!
You can't get the cams off with the chains in place. You have to remove the chains to get the phasers off, and sometimes due to valve spring tension the cams will 'bounce' which can cause interference issues. I'd time up the engine first, then lock the cams in place and remove the chains. Just quicker that way.
@@silicon212 Ah! Interesting! Thanks for the knowledge! I'm planning to go study mechanics next year :P
Pee-Tah is Ray’s Dewclaw, eh boys?
Great video and super informative. I have an 09 F150 with this engine. It has 290 k and still going strong. Really no signs of any issues so far and I like to change the oil every 3-4 k miles. I guess I'm rolling the dice on when to have this done but i only drive locally about 5 k miles a year if that.
Serviceability huh? I think if it were me, and there was no compelling reason not to, I'd slap in a new water pump, since you've done all the work to get to it.
Water pumps and alternators are actually pretty easy to replace on these engines. But yes, it would have been a good idea to do so while in there. If it were my car, I would have done it after 150,000 miles.
I don't see why? the fan is super easy to take out, if using an air hammer with fan clutch tool. fan shroud is a pain but who cares lol, can probably do it without even removing the fan shroud. coming from someone who just did timing job on 5.4 3v in '08 expy :)
@@BankaiD3 Here is why. The fan shroud is two piece so just two 10mm bolts and the top part just slides right up and out of the way. No, you do not need an air hammer to remove the clutch. Use a Ford fan clutch removal tool (about $20 at the local parts store). A slight tap with a hammer and bam it's loose. Simply spin it off. (While off, you can replace the clutch itself with four bolts). Then remove the four 10mm bolts which hold the pulley on. Then remove the pulley and remove the 4 bolts which hold the water pump. It pops right out. Too easy. You can do the job in half an hour. With vehicles that have an electric fan such as the Mustang or T-bird, it's even faster and easier. That's why.
@@LA_Commander that's exactly my point, it's simple enough as a job that I personally wouldn't justify the "while you're in there" thinking for the water pump. personally, i'm just gonna wait until it's an issue - I replaced many other things because of "while you're in there", but I do not see the point with the water pump or Tstat.
Bought a 2002 E-250 with a 5.4L V8 new in October of 2001. Sold it last fall. The first problem was going to back into a customers driveway one day and not having reverse. Turned out I didn't have 2nd or 4th gear either. Fortunately it was one of those rare times I was working in my own neighborhood and was able to drive it to a transmission shop. The second was a spate of having coils go bad about 5 or 6 years ago. The only other was having a brake line rust out in the back.
What does this procedure cost to have done for those that have this engine besides expensive? Also, great job by the way!
I had my timing chain replaced and it was $3500. It was a 16 hour job. But I also had to replace two of the cam phasers and replaced the water pump as well since mine is located inside the timing cover. I have a 2011 3.5 V6 Ecoboost.
Last one I did was about 4150 with parts. Needed just about everything.
@@MrMorc74 damn!!!
@@MrMorc74 might as well buy a new engine at that point?
@@bearing_aficionado that was dealership tho so top rate. I despise working on the 5.4.
My friend's dad fully rebuilt his triton motor with my dad in his f-150 that was pretty clean, he only put like 20,000 miles on it and then got sick and passed away and he scrapped it for $300 to a scrap yard. My dad even had all the recipes for the parts in the motor and pictures of it being done.
I have no knowledge of this engine, apart from UA-cam, so I can say with certainty that whatever actions Ray carries out will be correct/incorrect/useless/necessary but above all triggering. 😂🤣😂
the 2 valve or 4.6 is the one to get,, the 3 valves are garbage. but then, a 351 cleveland, lasts forever, no issues ever..
Well for one reader, my "humour" sailed way over his head 🤪
Upon reassembly and setting the timing, don't forget to make a "set phasers to run" joke. You're welcome! Live the videos Ray.
I've always been vocal lately on how incredibly poor Ford has been the past decade. If you own a 3 valve Triton, 150k is about all you'll get. Ford has been making cars longer than anyone else and no one does a worse job at it. Never again will I own one.
Same, I won’t touch an ecoboost anything myself. I’ll keep my old 7.3 though.
You can get a half million miles or more out of the 4.6 and 5.4 two valve motors. Those are very reliable engines. The three valve was a step backwards. But those engines can be fixed with the high volume oil pump and a new timing set. The key is the owner has to do the oil changes every 5,000 miles.
@@LA_Commander never missed an oil change and got 186k before the pin was pulled on the grenade. I now run nothing but Toyotas because I refuse to tear the front of a motor apart every few years, or try to stay a step ahead of the failed engineering at Ford.
@@timlepage4483 good for you on doing those oil changes, but if you don't replace the timing set and get the high volume oil pump it doesn't solve the issue. I'm not defending the motor it has that design flaw, all I'm saying is they can be fixed if properly done by a tech who really knows this engine.
buy earlier fords, like the windsor or cleveland, costs fuel, but dont break.. its the epa & greenies, that fk cars up. not ford,gm,dodge.. ill keep my, never fk up, cleveland 351..
Just sold my 2008 f150 5.4 for $8000 because at 152000 it started making that klackety noise. I knew what it needed but would've had to sink $4500 into it to fix it right. So bought a 2019 with 5.0 and love it. That 08 was a great truck never let me down.
Not sure if it’s in a service bulletin but the rear cam cap has a oil passage that Feeds the lash adjusters and I just had one come into my shop where it had a noisy lash adjustor. Replaced the whole bank to just a few of them not to pump up. Problem was the rear cam cap oil passage had a hard brittle piece of gasket blocking the majority of the passage therefore hindering oil pressure to the lash adjusters. Something I’ll always check everytime I service one of these 4.6/5.4. Not sure if the 5.4 had this passage on the rear camshaft cap but I know the 4.6 does. Figured I’d bring it up anyways. Great work as always.
as we used to say in the old days..."Not one of Ford's better ideas"....we said that a lot back then and it is still true today...thanks Ray
Can't wait for the litany of comeback videos after the repair. The 5.4 / 3 Valve engines are notorious for poor oil circulation, bad design cam phasers & the timing chain guides breaking & clogging the oil pump screen. The metal shavings produced by the timing chain grinding the inside of the cover can bypass the oil filter and score bearings (especially the cam bearings). Only true (reliable) fix is to R&R the engine.
You only needed to pull 3 roller followers in each head to get it to a point where you can pull the timing chain off. Once chain is off you can remove the cams to get the rest of the roller followers out so you don't have to sit and do them all by hand on the way out.
I use a quarter inch elastic bad on the ends of my pullers, keeps them tight and you can easily slip them over and have them hold in place! Awesome videos BTW!
I work on our tractor, just a bit, but I curse a whole lot more than you do while wrenching. You're a better man than I am.
Great video and awesome music. Keep doing what we do. From a 63 year old fan!!
Crikey! What a lot of work! Really appreciate being able to watch you work while you comment - that, too, wouldn't be easy! Especially with your work light falling again and again (there are versions with a bunch of magnets in the base and a long swivel arm). Thanks.
Completely agree with Perry Hampson! Your videos are so amazing. Thank you for sharing!!
My co worker is doing this exact repair. Same issue chain rubbing on cover. Customer also has rear pinion howling away. Dreaded 5.4l Flippin old rotten disaster lol great video Ray!
i literally feel your pain through the video. just picked up a 07 lariat with the 5.4 3v off my father and it has valve train chatter to it. just got done doing the cores on the inside to get ac back in the thing and im mentally preparing myself for phasers. i almost feel as though replacing the entire engine would be more efficient.
The Ford dealership I worked at we did tons of these and just an FYI for next time it's easier to lift the cab off so you have tons of room. Love the channel!!
I used zip lock bags to keep the bolts with the parts they go with when I turned a wrench for a living. I do wish I had the cordless tools you do, it would have made the job so much easier.
I’m an old mechanic that hasn’t worked in more than two decades and I’m always learning watching your videos, come the day I’m forced to do more than maintenance, (I learn from your maintenance videos too) I’m more confident I’ll be as excellent as I was back in the day. I still prefer the old 350’s, 352, 360, 390’s and 393’s. (440’s, 454’s etc’s) everything was different back in the day. As different as everything was, it was all the same.
My friend I love how your production keeps improving. Especially with some funky beats sprinkled into the mix. Good stuff man. Keep it going.
The Ford expedition is one of my favorite vehicles and its cool to see you work on one.
I did a timing kit on my dad's 04 f150. Hardest parts were removing the valve covers and the pickup tube from the oil pump. I did install all ford parts along with the melling high volume oil pump. New roller followers and hla's. The updated roller followers have smaller oil feed holes to bump up the oil pressure. Running pennzoil ultra platinum 5w30 instead of 5w20 with the ford filter. I'll definitely be doing the oil changes on it every 3k now along with an additive.
Wow! What a job!!! Got the right man on it!
Just did phasers, VCT cyinoids, gaskets, tensioners, chains, guards + guides. over the course of 3 days and has never idled better after replacing almost half of the foillowers on the engine. new spark plugs, idler pulleys and she runs like butter. use the OTC tools.
It’s amazing, just as I thought “Topside Creeper” you added the insert
Very educational and your humor is most uplifting!