4) Roger Hallam, "About talking to the police" | European Arguments 4/4 | Extinction Rebellion
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2019
- In this his 4th and final installment in the "European Arguments" series of vids Roger shares his thoughts on how to maximize mobilization via relationship building with the police.
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Filmed by Jamie Lowe, London [August 2019]
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Right on brother! you did your homework . Thank you for taking yrs of your life,and studying this and taking action to make change for the good of future generations. All of you who started X.R. Are heroes. Power to the people! not corporations & government for there own personal greed.
so true
Human contact above conflict. That's a very much needed attitude among activists. Thanks for sharing these videos Roger. Greetings from Belgium!
"You can't change anything unless you have a mass movement"
I support the evidence-based, strategic approach. A warning: it is remiss to characterize potential acts of love as simply strategy. In doing so (as a spokesperson/figurehead) you will inoculate the space of interaction with cynacism. If I'm engaging someone who works for a government instituion, say, I would not want them to prejudice any statement or act I make as merely cold, rational strategic thinking. I recommend reenforcing the message that human interaction can be sincerely founded upon love and courage. Whilst acknowledging these acts have inherent power (and advance a righteous cause) they can exist for their own sake.
hope the police see this too, they need education as much as the "protesters" who are the ones paying their salaries.
Power to the people ✊
genius.
I loved how you said once in each video "dare I say it"...
epic video
I failed at growing vegetables. Weather beat me and I'm mad. I need government to ban weather so I can grow a carrot.
I think this works well for mass mobilisations in most circumstances, but from experience, cooperating with police in a colonial country like so-called Australia means you are not being a great ally to oppressed people like the first nations people. We had this issue once in organising a mobilisation and we decided against cooperating with the police at all - to the extent of misleading them entirely - and the action went off without a hitch just as we had planned it.
@ XR
In the info below this video,
please add links to the first three vids in this series :)
ua-cam.com/video/UbHHv06QVBs/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/9Y29cPCG5As/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/7pi2ZptREr0/v-deo.html
XOX
Playing the critic. This could be shorter . To many times saying the same thing differently.
Top sharing of vital info if shortened.
@Daniel J. Lavigne apply further editing. This film is edited. Hope this helps.
Another idea get Roger to watch his films with another person identifying when the point has been made. A piece of string attached to his toe that when pulled means move on and inform of next... before people switch over... 💚
Daniel J. Lavigne get your bougy ass out of here with that “show me” bullshit.
At what point were you going to mention the vast difference in the way police treat poc than yourself?
10:05
@@AndrewPseudonym thanks, it's wayyy too long, I missed it. It's the slightest mention and then he keeps treating it like it should be the same for anyone. Very narrow minded.
I agree, Its productive to develope a basic respectful relationship with officers, particularly if it's a relatively small community knowing the police chief, sharing a sincere and positive rapport if warranted is beneficial to outcome. In the US there are many police departments to avoid as many are intentionally the aggressors.
Agreed... Understanding is not the same as approval.
What efforts are you making to tackle the issues of Climate Change, and introduce the strategies of XR in Asia? Lets face it, it is outside of Europe that the real challenges lie, and time is ticking...
And Benj....what efforts are YOU making? Your asking this question suggests that somehow you think it is Roger Hallam's responsibility....and that your own responsibility may extend no further than to ask the difficult questions. Many people do this thinking it somehow absolves them of the need to take action themselves. Yet more than anything else, this is one crisis where it is demonstrably true that we are all in it together.
XR India is taking off. When I was at school a long time ago, India was considered to be in Asia
Thunder Bay
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We really do have to go down to Primark together, could help you with your image persuasion..It's that shirt again..isn't it ?
Can you vote if you get put inside?
If not convicted and theres time. On remand yes.
I know we are non violent. What about agent provocateurs turning up to undermine actions. I suppose you can't work out what might happen in this way
When XR have a critical mass of non-violent protestors (and I argue that they have already reached this point), a small group of violent infiltrators is a challenge but also an opportunity. If they can be challenged and isolated by the nonviolent protestors it reinforces what we stand for. Best case the XR protestors can perform citizens arrest and hand them to the police in attendance. That would create a powerful message and bring the police onside. It is easier said than done of course. I've been on a few XR actions so far and have seen nothing but friendliness and love; I hope that I would have the necessary bravery to face down a violent infiltrator if needed.
Of course the there will be a low(er) level of police response if the protests are as non-threatening to the existing social system as Hallam is proposing here.
If there was real mass protests involving millions in strikes, occupations and real disruption of "business as usual" all over the country, as opposed to the tens of thousands blocking a few bridges and intersections in London that XR is getting so far, then the response would be quite different.
Such serious protests ain't gonna happen. Already with the stepping up now, Oct.8th, we see the pigs arresting much more. It's sad to see his naivete re. cops'n'cuts. We see now that as their rotten shitstem is more threatened, they come down harder.Not enough cash to arrest lotsa people? So naive. Soon enough they'll be smashing heads. I wonder if Roger has ever heard of The Battle of the Beanfield. I wish you every success but non-violence won't win your battle. It's tragic........and by the way did you miss the one about BoJo announcing £2.5 BILLION to create 10,000 new prison places about a month ago? Money's NO problem to them mate, don't delude yourself. Best of luck, you're a good man.
The police, even acting without abuses as is common in protests, will never be on the side of change. They work for the state, which as your whole concept of XR righly addresses, is totally unwilling to change. If appealing to police individually EVER worked then basically every protest and direct action wouldn't have been the same. The moment a cop uses their emotional or intellectual faculties and decides to join a protest movement is the moment they stop being a cop. By definition they can't do both.
It is assinine and ahistorical to appeal to them, and absolutely puts protestors in danger. To anyone participating in protests with or without XR: don't talk to cops!
Totally disagree. Police are human too, they have families and their own concerns about the future. XRs consistent nonviolence will already be having an effect - if they were ordered to be violent against us it would damage their morale and weaken their standing in the community would fall. Their superiors know this too. Nonviolent protest has succeeded many times in the past by holding the moral high ground and making it very hard for the state to suppress.
Update: I was arrested on an XR action at Birdcage Walk, London on Wednesday and I'd like to share some experiences.
I recognise my privilege as a white, middle-class, educated person who as the son of a fireman grew up around uniformed people and as such am instinctively comfortable around officers.
Before and after my arrest I had lots of opportunities to talk to officers, and also a magistrates court, with positive results. I focused on the science of climate change and made the point that we are all trying to protect society in our own way, and I had some really good responses such as 'I didn't realise that things were as bad as that', and handshakes etc. One officer had his shifts extended because of us so that he hadn't seen his 6-month old in several days; I apologised for that but made it clear that I still thought we were doing the right thing. He was sceptical about that but we ended the conversation on good terms. Only one person in the entire process (the jailer that took me up to the magistrate) was unwilling to listen.
There is difference between JAIL and PRISON. Please use the correct term.
Outside of North America, prison and jail have the same meaning. Roger is English and in common slang, gaol (jail) and prison are synonymous.
@@Jane_under_a_tree_with_a_book
That's interesting. Waste of words if they mean precisely the same elsewhere.
So what do they call "jails" and what do they call "prisons"? There has to be a succinct way to differentiate between the totally two different concepts- they are way different in concept- who are the held are...
(jails: untried, unconvicted, perhaps innocent, temporary or short term for vast majority / prisons: convicted, found guilty, serving time, long term)
... -if not function.
@@kilbridemeredith8742 Every country has its own set of terminologies - jail and prison is a US thing. In UK and Australia, they say remand and prison. However, in England, where Roger is, gaol (jail) is slang for being 'behind bars' in general.
@@Jane_under_a_tree_with_a_book
Remand = jail is very apt. I suppose I'll research further. Thanks.
Gaol I have encountered in my various reading. I never took a moment to look up a precise meaning.
Jail and prison are synonyms in NZ, too. And "on remand" if we want to make a distinction. I wonder what happens in Canada? :)
Who funds you?
China , Russia er... EU, America. Your point?
This is utter folly, as has been repeatedly explained to you.
Are you happy that this is “utter folly” or are you disappointed?
What do you want to happen?
@@dystopiaeatsmoney I'm not happy at all. This analysis shows a serious lack of understanding of the experience of how the cops treat activists. It is ill advised and reckless. Asking people to put themselves and their future at risk in this way is beyond irresponsible. Wanting oeople to get arrested is insane. The consequences are dire. He also has spoken elsewhere about hwo the prison service is staffed by overwhelmingly mixed race people. This is untrue. Roger may well be passionate about the issue, I get that and sympathise, but this is just ignorant and nonsensical. He is completely wrong
G. Whistler. If you disagree with the premise that humanity is about to fall of a cliff then yes, it could be seen as reckless and irresponsible . If you agree that the direction humanity is taking is suicidal or at least deeply profoundly harmful to our chances of survival then getting arrested is not really a big deal at all.
Do you think that humanity is facing a long term survival issue?
the only way to force change is to stop the flow of money, disrupting the flow of people, cars, trucks, does that, a general strike does wonders,
I don´t agree the way ER is acting: what can we get by sitting on the road? Today we have much more powerful tools than that. I strongly believe that what people need is EDUCATION in ENVIRONMENT. This is all about Science, then people have to be teached. By educating people you get the most solid and effective way because this situation has been caused by all of us, then The Change has to be done by everyone of US. Teached people will understand better what is happening and will act properly in their daily decisions, energy, water, food consumption, trash, traveling, transport... Imagine all those people who will join ER getting them to SWITCH OFF from the internet, and the system as much as possible. Imagine how much damage could be done to the system that way. Once the system is damaged they will have no chance to change. And with ANY risk of being arrested. Imagine the time spent sitting down doing nothing spent PLANTING TREES...
Is there time to educate everyone? Isn't that what groups have been doing worldwide for the past 40+ years?
Education too slow. The sociology points to civil disobedience that actually causes discomfort to the economic status quo is the more effective way to cause change to laws and policies.
It's not just education. The majority of people already want drastic action on climate change. The majority of people aren't the problem. It's the people at the top, the capitalists, who won't do it because it's not in their interests. They care about profit over human life and the planet itself. We are not all equal participants in this crisis. Most people have an insignificant footprint compared to the giant coal and oil companies. We also have no interest in continuing coal or oil extraction but it's profitable for the bosses. So I think you need to reframe the issue. It's not that people don't understand, it's about mobilisation and strategy. XR is a step in the right direction but not a sufficient one. We're going to need strikes to hit them where it hurts. We need a mass movement that they can't defeat, and you don't get that with just knowledge of the facts. You have to be part of it and bring other people in and help them develop into agitators. That's the kind of "education" that's needed.
@@danielwolfers3277 thanks for your reply and point of view. Please, first of all see I´m at Earth´s side and my "compalints" just try to be constructive creating a dialogue but never to argue. There is a very very important point that I don´t agree with you, and I think it´s a KEY POINT that other organizations don´t realize either: I always see people around me complaining about a third party. No matter what the question is about, but always responsibility goes to anothers, and NEVER START ASSUMING ITS OWN. That´s very easy and "unfair" to claim Cars manufacturers, Oil companies, Energy suppliers, Governments and so on as the GUILTY ones. Few people accept and realize how important and powerful is EACH ONES DECISIONS. Who drive the cars? Who consume the Oil? Who turn on the lights?, Who vote?, Who overconsume?, Who waste water?, Who decide which products are successful at the market? Who throw trash outdoors?... PEOPLE!!! INDIVIDUALS!!! WE ARE GUILTY AS CONSUMERS. WE ARE MILLIONS, MILLIONS OF WRONG OR RIGHT DECISIONS. What makes them going to the right or wrong side?: EDUCATION(KNOWLEDGE). What would be an oil company if people refused using the cars, flying, consuming plastics, etc? What would it be?... NOTHING! They exist thanks to US. THEY GIVE US WHAT WE ASK THEM FOR! But it´s very easy to blame at them then. To me, the worst irresponsibility by Governments is THEIR EFFORTS TO KEEP POPULATION IGNORANTS. It allows them to have the right consumers they need to make money. Just imagine something: imagine we concern people in mass to consume efficiently, to cut energy demand. DIRECT and UNDIRECT energy. THE SYSTEM WILL DROP. Imagine people getting concerned about Energy. How it is produced, the impact it generates, etc. Imagine people refusing to go to malls because their lighting and air is all artificial. Imagine they go on foot, bicycle... and use their clothing till it useful, and so on for the rest of their stuff. Imagine people stop flying by their own conviction and decision... You can stop one given day a highroad, an airport, a mall, an oil company, etc by strikking. What will you get?: -you´ll be seen as a crazy guy by ignorant people -could even seen as a terrorist -authorities will go against you, etc. -your act will be claimed by the word of manipulated televisions... What does represent 1 highroad 1 given day?... that´s nothing, almost nothing. And I would do it as a desperation act too, BUT IT WILL TAKE ME NOWHERE. IF WE GET PEOPLE CONCERNED ABOUT THE PROBLEM BY TEACHING THEM AND THEY START TO CHANGE IN MASS WE WILL CHANGE IT EVERYTHING! Please, please, think twice and carefuly about what I´m explaining. We have social media. IT IS THE MOST POWERFUL TOOL EVER CREATED BY HUMAN TO SPREAD THE WORD.
@Donald McCarthy you´re free to decide to stay ignorant and be a puppet of the System or learn (Science, in this case) and decide by yourself.
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