1) Roger Hallam, "Should we take their money?" - European Arguments 1/4 | Extinction Rebellion
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
- In this the 1st vid of his 4 part "European Arguments" series Roger contemplates the pros and cons of accepting money from "rich people" and the attendant tension it might create between volunteers and paid staff.
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Filmed by Jamie Lowe, London [August 2019]
#extinctionrebellion
#climatechange
#globalwarming
Yes, take the money, but be scrupulously transparent. Publish names of donors, amounts, and make clear statement that no favours will be owed - and mean it.
I agree!
'Registry of interests' is what I read elsewhere.
I don't know how it's in other countties, but in the Czech Republic it's exactly how you wrote it.
@@BHFJohnny Yea i know, its obviously not enough huh, thats why so many czech are computer espionage.
How can this guy be scrupulously transparent - he’s a total fraud looking to enrich himself!
Jane
Are you aware of the expression 'The Human Condition?'........if there's money involved, there's deception......a sad, but true story.
Just be transparent about where the money comes from and where it goes
CrowdDemocracy what are you afraid of? Do you fear some rebel will buy a yacht and sail away and burn some forests to produce more beef to make more money to buy a bigger yacht to sail even farther away..? 😁
Please share your personal and financial details here before you demand anything.
@@stebarg Dude, that isn't really a logical comparison.
Managing the flow of money is very important for public causes like this. Let's say someone donates a million dollars. You think "Great! That'll help us.".
Then you find out that the money came from a shady source.
Your cause gets completely fucked over by the media, no one will trust the movement anymore.
The movement dies.
@@stebarg Maybe look up this: ACCOUNTABILITY.
Cheers!
No Pls I do not agree. If an ”evil” person gives money for a good purpose that is a great thing. The question is what is the reaction to this. If you start doing shit then it's of course not a good thing.
Just take the money and carry on with doing great things and don't give a fuck about the media. That doesn't necessarily mean we should not care at all about the media. The media is the most important force.
@@stebarg yea man these rebels dont give a hoot about all that ..... but mind you the rebellion needs yatchs or boats run on clean energy so that rebellion dont have to fly ,i think u are onto somthing about the yatchs
I believe in you guys roger I've started my donation at $100 and I'm poor on disability but it's a priority,
so everyone else can find a way to donate whatever they can
we've got to support the movement financially they've got a massive job .
What do you do when the organization becomes dependent upon the money of the rich? To actually believe that the rich are like you and me is about as specious as you can get.
Stipends to volunteers in need of assistance, absolutely, before they burn out.
Robert Poen - on the bleed already, parasites!
Thanks for sharing this . It ist a quite good thing to figure out how the transformation is happening !
Money is necessary - I agree with others here; transparency & let donors know they don't get to dictate what XR does with the funds so they can't profit in any way with their support.
In Canada, if you operate as a not for profit, your annual reports are available to the public.
Paula Forster - Rodger the Dodger will find an angle and a fiddle 😉
Logic and commonsense strongly suggests that a system where the lobbying of government by mega rich industries is allowed is not going to be very beneficial for the masses. Hence we are where we are.
Agree to a point. See take the money and also look after people giving up their time to support the rebellion. The trouble is currently XR has thousands of volunteers. You won't be able to pay them all. Maybe you'll be able to pay 10 or 20. You aren't going to be pay everyone. As soon as some are paid and most are not then it will change the dynamic. I've seen it many times in community work. I fear it could lead to problems. But just an opinion.
Robert Procter: A valid fear unless XR volunteers stay focused on the magnitude of the problem they trying to address. It will be a HUGE Tragedy if we don't at least try to get authorities around the world to do their best to reduce CO2 emissions . AFAIK, there is no other planet our kids and Grandchildren can escape to if the earth is too hot or drowning millions...
Did you take that shirt on tour with you.? looks very familiar.
Mr Hallam and XR, these communications are so important. That XR understands pragmatism is an enormous step forward. It means this movement and this organization really understand how important results are. Every orthodoxy, every ideal must be questioned if we are to be effective.
Great video and great comment 'Rich people care about their kids too'. I'm certainly not rich, but some people with money haven't taken advantage of others misfortune to make their money, they have just worked hard or been more fortunate in their particular circumstances. Yep, take the money, save our planet.
For you it's an emergency fund, for them it can be considered a hedge fund
Peace. Money always comes with a price. What price will it cost the Extinction Rebellion?
Those who go jail should be compensated!!!!
Are you lost in this bullshit? 😆😆😆
Make sure to invest some money into logistical infrastructure such that dependency on money is reduced. Internal Independent food, energy, shelter, transport - supply that frees activists from external dependencies and obviates the need for money in the internal economy.
This is tricky and it will need managing the critics. "XR are against capitalism but take capitalist money" etc.
Funding is needed but not all funders would be keen to have their names publicised which conflicts with transparency.
Three possible asks of (capitalist) funders.
1) They should be vocal in promoting XR's 3 asks and boycott those companies involved in BAU lobbying. Not just fossil fuels but those that lobby for low tax, low pay, etc.
2) They should be transparent in where their money comes from. ie they are divested from fossil fuels and divested from banks and insurance companies that invest / insure fossil fuel companies
3) They should not be involved with tax havens, tax avoidance etc which limits a country's ability to invest in a fossil free society.
Point 1) would alienate some potential funders, that might be fine as it would shift normal for some and others would reflect.
This can be managed to some extent by demanding those donors who are still invested announce:
1) Announce their intention to divest with ambitious targets and dates front loaded for biggest reductions sooner,
2) Respect and support their emploeyess right to a climate strike and to be arrested and / or prosecuted in standing up for their right to exist.
3) Announce a climate strike for the 20th of September and 7th of October and future strikes and encourage their employees to participate.
One thing to remember is 'capitalists' are trapped as much as anyone else. So no idea how you move a company from a capitalist one to a none capitalist one in a capitalist environment. One can become a social enterprise or not for profit or whatever but the supply chain is still a huge problem as is how customers raise their funds.
It must be made financially worthwhile for people to start sharing the jobs we democratically decide we actually NEED people to do and work LESS. .It wouldn't take very long before nobody is doing the jobs that are destroying the planet because why would they want to do that, if they could share a job WE need people to do and be able to enjoy working LESS??....as things stand we can't get anyone to stop doing the jobs that are destroying the planet because the people doing them have no other job options.
I agree. I’ll do the boring stuff.
please go to MR RECYCLE (Facebook please help me get more follows ,thanks
Yes, of course, take th emoney. So long as clear headed and not addicted to it or compromised by it - then it gets stuff done. Completely agree with paid workers too.
Point of contention: Extinction Rebellion is setting standards for which local groups are qualified to recieve money
what the fuck?
we need some autonomy so that we won't get into this clusterfuck of legal matters that he describes in the next video,
and we also need some money so that people can quit their jobs and do the hard work
Take the money - but share it with local groups! Even people within the movement have no idea what is happening with money raised in their name.
We not talk about rich people, we talk about Soros and Rockefeller and that kind of People
Start a rebellion, use the money to feed long stay rebels evey rebellion needs an admin dont feel guilty your off to save the world with us so keep it up there are alot of people who would work full time rebels iv a charity ....i can use to raise money to help pay the rebels who need to be paid
One Big Fraud!
It really is a no brainer. Take the money. People have to give up the virtue signalling, and do what needs to be done. Thanks Roger for setting it out so clearly.
Hallam has been saying that all governmental regimes must be brought down - to save the environment. Would he then support the Synthetic Regime Currency, issued by Central Banks - to regime change the Dollar's hegemony? That way Central Banks could decide where money is to be spent - without recourse or accountability for effected populations. Much investment could be channeled into the Green Financial Initiative, resulting in deindustrialization + depopulation!
Thank you Roger Hallam.
Thunder Bay , ... listening
Why do you NEED the money, and how do you use it to grow the movement?
It seems to me if you truly believe what you're saying, money shouldn't matter. Money is worthless if society collapses, let alone at the end of the world.
I also suspect that if you take money from ANY source, you will lose credibility in the eyes of many people. XR should NOT be about enriching yourselves in any way, to any degree. If you are profiting from this you are no better than the system/capitalists destroying the planet. Get what you need to effectively spread your message, but no more. You profiting from this would turn people off every bit as much as being violent would, it would completely derail the movement.
Money is worthless if society collapses but we're not there yet. I'm not going to give up my job just because society may collapse. As long as XR continue to be transparent about what it spends the money on and where the money comes from there isn't a problem.
Did you even listen to the video? Paying people an income so that they can work and are able to pay their rent is not 'profiting'. Large organizations still need people to do the day-to-day admin. and such. They still need to eat.
@@Jane_under_a_tree_with_a_book Are the rank and file getting paid? If I show up to block a bridge in October will I get paid? I don't think it takes that much money to organize a protest, at least it shouldn't, it's much more about logistics, that's bodies and planning how to use them.
And no, I did not watch the entire video. I'll admit that once I heard Roger say that they do take money I started writing my comment. But I don't think it matters, he shouldn't be making a living off of this, certainly not a good one, if he is he's no better than a politician. I understand you need some minimal income to survive, to organize, get your message out as far and wide as effectively as possible, but there's a difference between that and using XR as a vehicle for profit. I'm not saying that's what he's doing, only that I hope he's not and never will because I think it completely undermines the message.
But from other videos, I think he's got it right, the problem is the majority of people are not convinced there's a climate emergency which warrants such drastic action, and until they do there will not be any meaningful changes made. People have got to feel their lives, their futures, their children's futures, are at risk, and right now that's just not the case.
@@mydogskips2 Really? You didn't bother to listen to what he said, but you had the time to type a slab of uninformed opinion? OK.
Dear mydogskips2, I guess that is why Roger H is doing these videos ...to try and be as transparent as is possible about the structure and processes of XR including the $£$. XR may lose credibility "In the eyes of many..." though I suspect they are people who are already unsure OR positively disturbed by XRs message. I've had days where I wish they'd just be quiet about the Extinction cos I am the Mum of a 12 yr old and so I fear for her future.It REALLY bloody hurts BUT my general sense of XR people is that they really care about what happens to the Earth and it's inhabitants. Surely that is something we should respect no?
Might be best to take money from rich capitalists who can prove that their wealth has come from ethical and sustainable means... i.e. not from stocks + shares and wealth that has come from such means such as oil & gas for example... Would this be possible? Would suggest that this principle - sets a precedence and ascendancy
Money is the problem and money is the solution. Generally, not about Xr specifically.
did he fly by any chance on his euro travels....
I’ve already been paid by Extinction Rebellion but I will add that I charged a very low rate. Any money that Extinction Rebellion gets should mostly be spent on educating and helping people to have less children in the future (ie less births) There needs to be less people on the planet if we are to be sustainable as a species.
Having fewer children is not the only thing to consider. Waiting until you are in your late twenties or early thirties before having children helps as, bluntly put, it gives the older generation a chance to leave us before we add to the younger generation. Imagine that things are as they were a couple of generations back... teenagers weren't having children.
I am not sure whether there being fewer people on the planet is the answer. Consuming less and accepting that we cannot have a luxury lifestyle and be wasteful, if that can happen to great enough a degree of course, may go a long way. I am not qualified to state the following as a fact, but from what I understand, it is not the mass of poor people living simple lives, but the relatively wealthy minority, whose consuming habits are the main problem (when it comes to the population aspect of the argument).
Take the money get a haircut, shave, and a new outfit.
Abandon evil doing and practice virtue well. The old global social structure conventions and apprehension about being co-opted no longer have priority. The fastest path to a new global economy will require resources and talent. You are not a brand nor a product. You are a human imperative. Find a benefactor and use money for the imperative.
Grow the movement
Yes source the donations then open books publicing amounts and names with donors permission if above a figure deemed high. Open books would help deliver rebellion faster.
Any advantage in being a LOW COST paid up member? UK left wing Momentum did it and likely learned.
Ever donation should be transparent
Exactly ❣️😃
After we’ve sorted out the climate crisis, we can fix humanity and abolish capitalism and the money system ❣️😃👍🏽
No good to abolish capitalism or the money system. They are not the problem.
The human trait were humans never think they have enough and should stop is the problem.
It is that trait that brought us from primates of the forest to who we are today.
@@ecocentrichomestead6783 Mmh, thinking... an addictive trait - "humans never thinking they have enough& should stop" helped us evolve from forest dwellers to "where we are today..." There may be some who think the Forest Dwellers got it right in the first place.. STILL thinking...tickling my chin
EcoCentric Homestead we think we don't have enough because of capitalism. In capitalism, you only get something if you can sell something. If nobody is interested in your product or service you will starve to death literally. That's why we instinctively collect mountains of wealth and try to stay on top.
The underlying cause for those flawed concepts is the idea of trading. Trading is not entirely bad. It's the strategy behind it. If you try to make a ”good” trade, you try to get more for less. This is the root of all problems. As soon someone is in the position of power he or she can put others down and usually does so.
I know how to create a new economy in the next few years
How?
Wow really? Sounds brilliant
@@michaelmcateer1156 I wish I could explain it all in a UA-cam comment but here it is in a nutshell
We create a economy based on cooperation instead of competition. It out competes capitalism on its own field because of all of the inefficiency of competition and needing to give profit to share holders and promised infinite growth (which of course is impossible)
We create a technology cooperative to be able to understand the complex problems without having to constantly debate them. We create tools to understand and use, history, politics, economics, science, health, current events
We create tools to share resources and information on a massive scale
We recreate the means of production as we have the threshold of users needed (we have enough people to make economies of scale and non profit goods be cheaper and better than the for profit ones)
Individuals have control and ownership of their own data. Together we can utilize our own data for efficiency, health and every other positive purpose that is NOT selling us more shit that destroys our planet (the only thing our data is currently being used for).
We use massive amounts of volunteer labor (intellectual, emotional and physical) by empowering people to do what they love (what they WILL do for free) and organizing what we need done.
We solve our collective needs so this is feasible. People can not share in each others labor when they have to work minimum wage JOBs . So we create ways to eat, shelter, clothe, for less and less money than we are currently doing it now as individuals.
We descale the current economy by making things cost less and less REAL resources (time, energy, and materials)
I know this is an inadequate description cause every statement generates more questions
Come over to my channel and ask all the questions you want
@@andria3a Yes really (I know how it sounds)
Come participate on my channel.
Ask all the questions you want.
We are going to create the solutions humanity needs, together.
The more people who are involved and asking questions the faster it all gets started (and it would have been great to have started a decade ago)
CrowdDemocracy - One Big Fraud ......
If i was economically comfortable with savings accounts here, there and everywhere with paid off mortgages, e cars, and solar panels etc, i might join these rich kids in their protests and design a few posters to take selfies with, but until then, i cycle and never fly anyway as can't afford to but good luck in your efforts to make evryone a liberal hippy.
Do what you must.
Take all donations. You cannot change the world without donations. All donations are equal. Some large generous donations from scared wealthy people are just as equal as everyone elses humble offerings. Scared wealthy people are people too. Most generous of them. Inflexible rigid ideologies do not work. No need to publish names of donors - discretion is important. But help is help.
Some donors are happy to be public about their giving. Others not...
It sounds like you need a Extinction Rebellion money printing press,there's a lot of boring stuff in cleaning up this planet.
Well done Roger brilliant work in Europe. But like people are saying be transparent with it .
i think i'm looking at fascism.
alectricity
Yeah - Eco Fascism.
Best on 1.25x speed (video settings) You're welcome.
Well said, and yes --> take the money. You already know what to do with it.
who pays for all this travel????
Yes a million times industrial permaculture can save our living planet turn that cash into trees
Are you not getting this my friend or are you a right winger trying to be funny? Tree's need the environment to grow the climate is fucked and everything thing is heading for extinction including us. "WE NEED TO CHANGE THE WAY WE LIVE YOU TWAT"
Yes, of course, take the money. Money is important, which is why I donate. It is in the capitalist model where people work for free and labor is exploited.
it's going too slow. by the time you have enough people for initiating a global change the ecosystem will collapse
Well we've got to try, can't just give up
@@infinitecuriosity9210 That's the Spirit:-)
money your funny. money creates value .value creates resources.resources leads to exstinction.that's the problem in the first place is money . you already failed
I think i understand your viewpoint, but maybe we need to wait for 'after' to enact those ethics. At the moment we need to turn their own gun on them?
Money doesn't create value! Workers do.
Steve Lawless you mean consumption is what money creates
:-((
That’s why we need to get rid of capitalism and the money system ASAP.
It’s holding us back from doing the right things.
Use some of the money and buy some land to grow crops and restore watersheds!!!
Do what you must.