10 Reasons To Stop Hating Star Trek: Discovery
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
- You'll miss it in 10 years. Like you do Enterprise.
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#StarTrek #StarTrekDiscovery #ShapeOfSaru - Розваги
I also like that Disco solved the Evil Admiral problem, and I was so expecting to see Rillak become a villain and am glad they didn't take the predictable route with her character
The fleet admiral is one of the best officers in the series actually, plus he's probably the only admiral to be an actual frequent reoccurring character, other than admiral Ross from DS9 of course. He has been one of the saving graces of the whole series in my opinion. I think the show got a good boost in the right direction when they went into the future, we need more of this future to be used in future trek shows. They have done the 22nd through 25th centuries to death and it really needed the new timeline.
star trek continues solved the badmiral problem.
I still want to know how the Fing Warp Plasma gets into the warp coils on the detachable nacelles?
it doesn't there is now warp plasma, the nacelles run on programable matter.
The detachable nacelles are about the coolest technology ever, I can care less about the looks and characters but the technology is wild cool
@dellytancyl524 programable matter is to make stuff, not to run stuff. If that was the case there would be no necessity for dilithium.
It's nonsense, written by people with no interest in science.
[waves hands] magic!
I just notice that they turned the Golden Gate Bridge into a Solar Array. It's a beautiful bridge an a height of Engineering when it was built.
But by the Star Trek Future, it's not really needed for Transportation. But it is a beautiful Landmark bridge and there is not good reason to tear it down. Turning it's length into a Solar Array works for me and give this beautiful landmark a new life in the future.
When you can walk to a Transporter in any area and tell it where I want to go, stand on it and be in that other place on earth instantly, why do I need old school roads?
But Historic Landmarks need to be kept and remembered.
I love it.
If Riker shows up on a holodeck we riot.... lol
"computer delete Barclay Alt-history fan fiction #13" Riker walks out of holodeck.... roll credits- the end ;)
With all it faults, I enjoyed it! The worst for me was a season long story, the whisperings, and too much crying.
One of my favorite parts was Rainn Wilson as Harry Mudd! The episodes and the short treks were brilliant. Word is he wants to come back in SNW and I am here for it!
Oh dear. I fear I'm in a minority by disliking both Harry Mudd and Q! (Runs for cover!)
@@adrianbruce2963 I didn't like Q or the original Harry Mudd (or his selling sex slaves being made into comedy), but I did like Rainn Wilson's spin on him and also the way he was introduced. A gradual release of revealing dialogue made it clear who he was before he said it himself.
I tried so hard to like Discovery. I forced myself to finish the first season; then watched 2 episodes of the second season and decided that I might hate myself but not enough to finish the series.
I sat through 2 seasons -- the most upsetting and painful experience I've ever had with a TV show. Then the Picard series broke me. I'm done with Kurtzman-trek.
I watched all 4 seasons and I still don't know the names of all the senior staff.
@@roberthoward9500 "Senior staff"? Like there's a chain of command?
@@dramaticwords Yes, a chain of command would be nice. Would also be nice if they acted like a professional crew. I have heard Star Trek get described as competency porn before, where everyone is just good at their jobs and are very professional, and I just never got that impression with Discovery.
@@roberthoward9500 Competent, professional crew is something I love about TNG. They were people you could aspire to be.
I've struggled to love Disco, it's not given me the Star Trek vibe I get from other series. But I don't like hating on it and some aspects I really enjoy
What really frustrates me is that it feels like the talent is there, all the elements for great 'Trek is there, maybe it just lacked cohesive creative direction or had too much studio interference.
But it gave us Pike, which led to SNW. I love Tilly and, I love Jett Reno.
maybe they were planning multiple series and this was one to draw in a new fanbase and it wasnt made exactly for you. Maybe thats one of the problems in our community as fans. We dont let anything grow because it doesnt fit our amateur ideas of what something should be for us.
TBH there is an over 10 minute video of Jett Reno being "the best crewmember"
Thank you for the candor; much appreciated.
No, TOS gave us Pike.
@@Watcher1134 Reno barely got to do anything. Her best moment was when she and Booker outmaneuvered Tarka with an assist from Drudge. (For some reason Tarka STILL isn't even mentioned in her Memory Alpha article.)
Its biggest problem is that it shot itself in the foot immediately on launch. Having the Klingons speak in Klingon (not to mention the redesign, yet again, of how they look) was an extremely large hill to ask people that were new to Trek to sit through. Anyone new to Trek that thought they'd give it a shot probably turned it off without completing a single episode. That's not the way to grow your viewer base. It irritated the shit out of me, and I've been watching Trek since the 60's.
Once you make it over that hump, and characters started actually speaking English, it became watchable (sometimes mediocre, sometimes great, most times somewhere in the middle).
Long-term, it has the same issue that other new Trek shows, like Picard, have had - stretching what should've been a 2 or 3 part story arc into 10 episodes, which made it quite boring more often than it should've been, then in the last episode or two pulling out the deus ex machina out of thin air to wrap everything up that leaves the audience feeling empty. They would've been much better off to have had three or four mini-arcs lasting only a couple episodes each within a season (like old-school Doctor Who did), and not pulling something out of their asses at the last moment that was never mentioned before to suddenly pop up and fix everything that's going on.
It's also very inconsiderate. My handicapped wife can't read that fast, and thus she loses all subtitled content.
I've never been too keen on Disco but I liked the authentic Klingon language - the problem was not making their intentions clear in a visual and musical way. Ship cloaks, commander smiles, low brass instruments play as Discovery is outlined in a red target indicator. Job done, move to close up shot of Starfleet cup and saucer.
only some people.. I know Trek groups that love all the shows including Disco and literally ban people that hate on any of the shows. So it was only the most vocal and not all of us fans.
Just to add in, youtube channels really did a number on it too.. A lot of youtube channels kinda cost us some good publicity but they got the hits they wanted. It's an issue today just like for click journalism.
I hated the discovery klingons
@@NeoTechni - Also, a large part of Trek's target audience is kids. Kids and subtitles don't mix. I'd guess a lot of them tuned in, got confused and frustrated because they couldn't tell what was going on, and left.
I knew three things about Discovery before the premier: Sonequa Martin-Green was the lead; her character wasn’t the captain; she would likely be captain by series end. Interesting, possibly “fascinating”. Then the very first scene gives us Michelle Yeoh as captain (“More of that, please”, I says), but the credits list her as ‘Special Guest Star’. Nope. Strike one. Then: the jewel-toned Klingons, the round-robin command, and the needlessly dense (to my mind, muddled) plotting that made it seem as if an incredible cast was swimming in Jell-o. It has improved a lot, but I’m really not going to miss it.
Oh Sean! Don’t d you remember, Admiral Forrest. From Star Trek Enterprise?
Nechayev wasn't a bad admiral either.
yeah she was she sucked@@claytonberg721
And, excuse me, but Admiral Cornwell? She was a hero from start to finish.
My biggest beef with Disco is that Michael gets away with everything without any real consequences. She abuses the grace she has been given over and over again without learning a lesson or to respect those in authority in her line of command.
do you also hate those things in Kirk because Kirk and Burnham are very, very similar to each other - they are both over bearing, swashbuckling, with little regards for authority savior types, except one is an over dramatic misogynic bastard and the other is a martyr. the original Kirk would have been at home in Burnham's shoes and vice versa. I feel the same way about Kirk that I feel about Burnham, they are both of them what their ships needed for the moment.
@@dellytancyl524 For the record, I've actually said good things about Burnham. For the most part she's just meh. In very early Season 3 I thought she was watchable. She was in an interesting environment surrounded by a number of colorful characters (including Booker), which I think made her acting less flat and more personable than it was earlier. It was a nice break from the X-Files atmosphere.
@@dellytancyl524 Kirk and Burnham are nothing alike. Kirk worked his way through the Academy and up the ranks. Burnham got her rank through nepotism. Kirk had a keen sense of duty. Michael never heard an order she felt inclined to follow. Kirk may have had brief romances, but he never shacked up with a girlfriend on the ship, or made her part of his crew, let alone shagged a crewmember while his captain was being tortured down the hall. He would never have been best friends with the galaxy's biggest racist.
@@dramaticwords LOL! you felt better after typing all that? LOL! oh man, what is wrong with us? you and I remember Kirk very differently.
@@dellytancyl524 I suggest you rewatch TOS.
It's not hating it, it's just not loving it.
or watching it.
Whilst I will credit the alien design mostly. They get -100% credit for the Tardigrade, they stole that from an indie game developer who they fucked over hard.
For me, disco went off the cliff when Michelle Paradise’s took over as new showrunner. I don’t like the shallow and highly emotional story telling with way too much emphasis on how everyone feels, which falls flat because of the lack of any proper character development for most of the cast. I lost every connection with this show midway season 3, after being a huge fan of the first 2 seasons.
Burnham has no flaws and there are no consequences for anything whatsoever. Therefore the stakes are nonexistent despite them pretending to be very high all the time. Burnham would be way more likeable if she would make a mistake once in a while and actually pay the price for it. The show could also benefit from some more humour and b- and c-stories revolving around the bridge crew. Less telling and more showing is the key.
Uh, did you actually WATCH the show? Michael has a huge number of flaws (being reckless to the point of putting others in danger as well as herself, repeatedly, adn putting herself on the proverbial chopping block constantly), and she's ALSO been punished repeatedly (including by almost dying) either by the plot or by other characters. I feel like if Michael Burnham had been a dude, you wouldn't have given a flying frick about "dodging consequences".........oh you know. Like Captain Kirk. Y'all put HIM on a pedestal, and he got away with a LOT. Characters do not need to be punished for every mistake........ it doesn't happen in real life, it doesn't have to happen in shows.
@@n3onstars in season 3 and 4 there is only the temporary demotion but aside from that everything goes in favour of Micheal. She does everything, knows everything and is always right in the end. Making Book’s death permanent would have made the entire season much more meaningful to me as all bad things are turned back within minutes. I find the character to be way too unstable and emotional for a captain.
Don’t make assumptions about me, my critique is about the writing of the character and had nothing to do with race or gender. TOS is very archaic and was made for syndication, therefore there were never any consequences, except the episode with the guardian of forever. I don’t like the fact that Kirk is being put on a constant pedestal. I like the character way more in the movies, for instance when he had to deal with the death of his son.
I liked seasons 1 and 2 of Disco because they were unpredictable, with actual meaningful character deaths (Ayriam, Lorca, the admiral, the doctor etc.) and plot twists. Seasons 3 and 4 are shallow and predictable in comparison. After 4 seasons I prefer to have someone else be the hero for a change. What is the use of having all these officers with all their specific specialisations when the only one knowing and doing everything is the captain.
Burnham went to friggin jail after the two part pilot.
@@claytonberg721She should have stayed in jail.
@@claytonberg721 I was talking specifically about seasons 3 and 4. Like I said, I really enjoyed seasons 1 and 2.
I've enjoyed it all! And I am an original fan of the first airings of ST: TOS... Yes, I just dated myself...
Same 👵😜
Same. And as a 12-year-old girl at the time, it really hurt to see the Roddenberry-written "Turnabout Intruder," which made the case that women were too emotionally unstable to be starship captains. This message from a show I loved was painful. I actually remember wishing I was a boy because then I'd be good enough to be a starship captain. Watching Burnham, both versions of Georgiou, Cornwell, the awesome Owo-Detmer team, Nhan, Reno and the other strong female characters has been healing.
@@Yibambe.What about Killy from the mirror universe I loved her and how emperor from the mirror universe changed over time and was played by Michelle Yeoh and she had a good ending
Multiple points on this list need to be "SARU".
I am broken knowing there's only one more season of seeing Saru 😭 especially now that we have the pure joy that is Saru & T'Rina 😭😭
Saru is a real highlight of the series for me, it's been great watching him develop, he has had some fantastic moments.
He'd be a great chancellor for _Starfleet Academy_ just saying...
it's a show about Starfleet - it's supposed to be about professionals on board a fleet vessel - if you want romance? I advise you watch things in the romance genre - where romance goes. You get 2 scenes of love in sci-fi and it had better involve lasers.
I watched the first couple of episodes again the other day and I realised if the producers said it was set in an alternate universe I could have enjoyed it more when it first came out.
Yes, it's just not Star Trek, neither look nor feel.
It is an alternate universe. They just don't want to say it out loud because they want fans to think it's Star Trek.
being someone who grew up in the late 90's, I grew up watching this show due to my mom loving it and watching it, but when I watched it with her, I never really got into it until I gotten older. I started discovery and honestly i enjoy it, and of course that's just me personally also it made my inner sci-fi loving self-jump out more.
I did watch season 1. I did watch season 2. I did watch season 3 and this where it went down hill. I watch a little bit of season 4 and gave up on this series.
I the fact of pushing for something new. Leonard Nimoy said himself that he wanted the fans to move forward an honest chance. I don't want another prequel, reboot or legacy characters. Many of the things we like most about Star Trek wasn't even Gene's ideas, so why are we spending so much of our time trying to wonder what he might think.
Now I haven't watched all of it, but I did love what I watched (first 3 seasons). I was a little disappointed that Airiam's arc was so shallow, because it really deserved way more time. I think people were so disappointed about the Burn because they had their expectations because they wanted something "badass". But often enough in reality, things are surprisingly anti-climactic, and the idea that it was something ~very~ unexpected is what made it interesting.
And that is actually very “Star Trek” I mean all of the older shows had some even weirder plots or episodes
I think each season's been getting better and better. It's a show that made no apologies about wearing its heart on its sleeve and I absolutely adored it for that reason. It took Troi's advice to Data "that emotions aren't good or bad; it's what you do with them that counts" and showed how empathy is the absolutely essential fuel in the fight for justice, not a weakness to be pitied.
Supporting that theme, every season brought on new mentors that were experts in psychology and emotional intelligence: Cornwell, Pike, Vance, Rillak, as well as promoting Culber to counselor and employing the services of Dr. Kovich.
The show dared to shift focus away from senior officers on a Starfleet posting, by focusing on one person's growth from grief-stricken maverick with a martyr complex to someone who learns to move past that by being more transparent and deliberate, and gently guiding people away from the kinds of mistakes she used to make.
Season one showed how peace can only be achieved through good faith. Season two showed how we can seek forgiveness and reconciliation for the past. Season three showed how connection is essential. And season four showed how the arduous work of reaching out to the seemingly implacable foe is an essential counter to the flailing preemptive strikes borne out of grief, a pretty full circle thematic tie.
No matter what show is your favorite from the current era, you have Discovery to thank for it. No longer were shows constrained to the same formula. Star Trek is so much bigger than any one format. DSC's focus on underdogs meant that we could have a show about people who left Starfleet in PIC, a show about a quartet of ensigns at the beginning of their career in LDS, a show with young people who never even heard of Starfleet or the UFP, and a show that fills in the blanks in the transition period between Pike and Kirk. It also birthed Short Treks, which was a great testbed for new Trek concepts.
I'm looking forward to see what new kinds of Star Trek shows we'll see in the future. There's already talk about a Section 31 show (Will that be about how that organization finds redemption?) and an Academy show. But I'd like to challenge Star Trek to branch out even more than it has during this era. Let's see what the Star Trek future is like from the perspective of civilians. Let's see what it's like to live planetside. DS9 showed we could do a space station to critically acclaimed results.
"Discovery" had the same problem that "Enterprise" had for me in that I just don't care about the characters. I realized that mid-season 3 that I cared more about what was going on with Vulcan than I did about any of the characters.
Had goose bumps when the Enterprise came onto the Screen
My rational brain was bemoaning that _Discovery_ was leaning more heavily on nostalgia, but every other part of my brain was releasing _all the happy neurotransmitters._
Smashed the like button purely for the Garth Marenghi cameo
The only beef I have with any of the new Treks is that streaming "seasons" (and I use that word lightly) don't go anywhere NEAR 26 episodes. So, for example, in FIVE seasons, Discovery will have had maybe two or three more episodes than TOS got in THREE seasons.
It took till Mid Season 2 for me to be hooked....but once hooked I was absolutely taken in. I am thoroughly annoyed that Disco is in its final season. Its been a great ride.
I feel like I'm in the minority for really enjoying Disco from the start. Thank you for this list. :)
I feel the same way I have absolutley love the series from the very beginning and have my own headcannon as to how other peoples arguments say disco broke canon in the first season
You are not in the minority; the "others" make you feel like it. I am with you in enjoying Discovery from the start.
you're not, more of love love Discovery than the very vocal minority would have us believe.
Disco's success is why they made Picard, Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds, Prodigy, and now Section 31. The very vocal minority is why Disco fans feel this way.
I enjoyed it too from the start.
Well if you're going to try that, I'll go ahead and give:
10 Reasons to **Keep** hating Discovery
1. Zero character development. I watched all of Disc and gun to my head, I could not name anyone other than Seru or Burnham, the rest of the bridge crew are just *there* with barely a mention. (Not counting temporary characters like Lorka, Pike and Georgio) Seru evolves into a **predator species** oh such dramatic change, he's going to be so aggr- what do you mean he just says once "I must control my emotions" and goes back to being passive.
2. Absurd plotlines. There is an episode which boils down to a Kid got sad, made the force cry and wiped out half of all life in the universe.
3. Crytrek. Star Trek in the past has very rarely shown people crying, (done it's fair share of making the viewers cry though) Discovery makes up for all of that missed crying and even more for good measure. Which'd be fine if it was thematic emotional drama... except with point 1, I don't care about the characters. There's meant to be this emotional scene where a fully sentient robot (Sorry Data, you weren't first apparently) is resisting a hostile hack and goes for the self-sacrifice move(with a really drawn out last moment speech deal), but she gets all of 3 lines the whole season and they're in this 1 episode, and because they know we won't care, they throw flashbacks to her "friendship" just to really try and make it impactful when it isn't.
4. The Timeline. To put it mildly, Discovery causes an absolute mess, trying to shunt itself into a timeline, with no respect for said timeline, which is why it runs away a thousand years into the future.
5. The Good Die Early. The exception to point 1 - characters that defy the formula and become interesting, must be killed off/removed, I won't specify for spoiler reasons, but you can probably tell if you start to like a character they're not going to be there for very long, which is really annoying.
6. The "Example" episode. When introducing your friends to a show you sometimes try an "example" episode to give them an idea what the show is like and it is one of the best the show has... for Discovery the best I can do is the episode where it's crashed shuttle with a bunch of academy students, because holy s*** they actually have character development, in 1 episode, the rest of the main cast haven't got that in 4 seasons!
7. The "So close" factor. There's enough talent, tech, story that could make something that works... but it just doesn't. It's frustrating.
8. Section 31. S31 started as this fantastic explanation to the glaring flaw in the federation, nuanced, making the hard choices to do good for the federation, from the shadows. And Discovery puts them on parade with special black badges and ships, while shoehorning them as the bad guys, probably because writing S31 properly takes effort.
9. Universal threats. Traditional trek, the threats are usually immediately for the crew but some do occasionally threaten all of Star Fleet. But with Discovery, every other problem is going to blow up the Universe, to the extent when you hear "This threatens..." you're already sitting there, rolling your eyes, saying it in time with the show "the whole universe"
10. Now I could just say "Klingons." but let's go with - The Spore Drive. There are so many things wrong with this device, and it's one of the main things about Discovery. Apparently no one else, in over a thousand years, has ever stumbled upon this empire making technology. The terran empire built 1 ship to use it as a power source, then just, forgot about it. Do they use it to map out the entire galaxy in a matter of days? Instantly setup colony worlds? Bring rare materials back? No, they just use it like a faster than normal warp drive for most of the series, begging the question - why did they even introduce this? Scotty, Geordie, O'Brian, Bellana, Trip and Hemmer didn't need a special engine to be interesting.
And sure, my response to the points of the video
10. Ok, it was first, that's not really a reason.
9. Nonsense. Yeah, woo, they got some props right - but there's the bigger issue of nearly everything else timeline wise. And you're cheating to fit more points in, graphics might have a lot of work, that does not mean a positive outcome. Some people say it's "dark mode" trek, but it's dark mode with harsh neon lights and lens flares blinding you most of the time.
8. ... I really question the sanity of people that still cling to "Gene's vision", most agree his vision ended with DS9 and it was for the best.
7. "Here's a point for discovery - it made something far better in SNW" ... ok, that's like saying star wars episode 2 gave us the animated clone wars series
6. Yeah, it had to run away before it did yet even more damage to the timeline it was in, now it's free to make up nonsense plotlines.
5. I'm baffled by this one. Clutching at straws with a copy-paste politician.
4. I never understood "Badmiral", there are a, quite frankly disturbing, number of admirals in Star Fleet that we've seen and a small number have been "bad" usually with a reason. Very few of which actually act like Admirals, you have to look to The Orville for proper admirals.
3. It has big actors because they were desperate to make it work and paid well, it won't be the first or last time great actors were stained with working on something terrible.
2. Great character, unique locomotion, interesting alien design, still no character development, he goes through vor... thing, becomes predator, few episodes later - "Nah bruh"
1. Something we don't know about as a reason... I mean, they finally understand good trek, with SNW and Picard's S3 so I do expect them to finally do a season right but it won't retroactively fix the rest of it.
Just to throw some additional points in (because youtube does not like editing comments with new line breaks in them) My favourite recurring character from Discovery is actually the Doctor, and no, I still don't know his name. I do think this is mostly because of dialogue, while about 5% of the spoken words are "Commander Burnham" (I wish I was exaggerating) most dialogue between other characters rarely involves their names.
And I did appreciate how they did "They/them" it makes perfect sense for a symbiote host to identify as such.
Then, the elephant in the room, *sigh* Burnham. Is a Mary Sue. "Oh she's half vulcan so she's stronger and smarter than humans." So was Spock, Spock could not beat up multiple actual Vulcans in a fist fight, even with "Training in vulcan martial arts" Or be a better space jumper than a professional with years of jumps under their belt, with reading a manual one hour beforehand. Now her always being the source of all answers is harder to argue, with noone having character development, I don't know if the other bridge crew were capable of providing answers. Maybe they're all bottom of the barrel marginal passes - on this highly top secret prototype vessel. Oh, wait.
@@STEPHENDANERD You don't deserve good TV.
@@nodiggity9472 Always amusing to see comments like these, can you dispute the facts? Provide evidence to the contrary? No, just try to insult me. Although I suppose if your standards are so low to consider Discovery "good TV" I shouldn't be surprised when that's all you can manage. Now back to actually "great TV" with SNW and another imbecile on ignore.
@@STEPHENDANERD honestly at some points it physicaly hurt me to watch and listen some of the BS on that series. The point with that artificial thing - it was just plain annoying how they tried to make one care. Even worse, the speech in the beginning of the next one. Everytime Commander Michael Burnout is mentioned I just wanna punch my screen. Honestly gave up on Trek but luckily LD is quite fun. It just shows it is possible to have a modern Star Trek with different setting
the damage it does to the future of trek's vision and the damage it does in the past by wrecking decades of world building and lore is just...tragic. the whole "burn" plot is absolute fucking garbage. It's like whoever did the main writing for the plot binged game of thrones and breaking bad and went "snaps fingers* this is exactly what trek needs""
They take this beautiful vision of the future, where all of humanity has united under a common goal; and decide... nah lets make it GRIMDARK!
It puts a finite lifetime on star trek by capping it off in the 3000s by having something that is a mix of the ending of Mass effect 3, and the birth of slanaash/dark age of technology.
Enterprise, Voyager, and Deep Space Nine were not universally loved when they first came out.
Deep Space Nine, in particular, has gotten more love over time. Nowadays it’s a classic, but back then not everyone was on board with space station politics and machinations.
The problem with DISCO is that it’s all about one big story arc for each season, unlike the other shows that had mostly an episodic formula. Even when they had a main plot, it was mostly seamless. This meant that if one episode sucked, the next one could be awesome.
The endings of many Discovery seasons have been lackluster, although some episodes were good.
I think the first season was the most ambitious, for me at least. But they switched gears and, to get more people to watch, they slowly gave up on dialogue and some themes to make the show more pop.
Michael Burnham, the main character, was sometimes too much. Saru and Georgiou were always great. None of the other recurring characters were very memorable.
Nevertheless, it was a series that served as a lab and launchpad to do a soft reboot of the franchise and introduce new shows. And in this, it was quite successful.
One of Disco’s greatest achievements was the introduction of Anson Mount as Pike.
Love that they went to the edge of our galaxy into open empty space. And they did time travel well
I don’t hate it, but I just can’t connect with it.
I’ve watched it several times but still feel the same.
S1 was only worth watching for the performances of Jason Isaacs as Lorca, whilst S2 introduced us to Anson Mount.
If, after 4 seasons, I can’t name the whole bridge crew there was no hope.
And let’s not talk about ‘The Burn’. Please, that was painful.😣
Sorry
As much as I disliked the first season I wanted to get back into Disco just for the chance to see what the future of the galaxy looked like. Then their big reveal about the cause of the Burn turned out to be...idiotic. I was immediately done. Nothing could bring me back to Disco.
@@Oniphire I mean yeah... It was awful. I couldn't even get thru that season.
Lorca was more punchable than most TNG admirals.
I agree, I remember face palming on the reveal of what the burn was. Having a story that needs to be completely finished by each season's end shoots them in the foot. I don't hate discovery i dislike some aspects of the series and some i do enjoy. Booker is pretty damn great
@@Scandic45 I feel the same about these complete season storylines. It’s the same with ST Picard. You just switch off. If they had arcs that lasted 3 episodes max then they would be ok. However, I feel both Disco and Picard were let down by the storylines, often too complicated, or just bits added for nostalgia. The last season of Picard was basically that every episode. “Ooh look, it’s the NX-01. Look it’s some old character, Hey, there’s a tribble or Kirk’s body”. Seriously, it was lazy writing. And Geordie basically having the Ent-D like it was an old hotrod you’d have in your garage to work on every Sunday was a bit too far fetched.
I’m glad that we have SNW and LD. I can watch them with the whole family and we enjoy them together. But disco and Picard are just too much of a miss for us.
It failed in it's mandate to be game of thrones in space, then soft rebooted so far into the future that everything is magic, and then it stopped being science fiction and instead became action fantasy.
Star Trek isn't action fantasy, and no amount of shoehorning these continual rewriting of the source material and trying to pass it off as rebooting while still refusing to even admit it's a reboot ever changed anything.
I can't remember when I stopped watching it, but there was a whole season I just couldn't be bothered to finish and then never bothered watching it again. In any normal situation this would have been cancelled long ago. Some say it's viewership isn't even in 6 figures.
Discovery never had a mandate to be Game of Thrones in space. LOL. The show is Star Trek. Discovery was always marketed as the story of Michael Burnham and follows the classic orphan's tale seen in Charles Dickens' works.
@@ScoobySnacksYum Wrong. Go look up early interviews with Alex Kurtzman when he was Les Moonves' "yes man."
Les Moonves said he wanted GoT in space and Kurtzman echoed it in all the press clips & interviews. In fact, there was even a scene or two from s1's mirror episodes that copied scenes from GoT.
Then, Moonves was out, fans rejected the first half of s1, they went on hiatus for 3-5 months while reshoots and retooling happened and suddenly, it was no longer GoT in space! Now Kurtzman backtracked and called it was a "platform for social issues..." (Kurtzman said this during an early star trek day video.)
He also jettisoned the show 930 years in the future because he couldn't take all the fans saying how disconnected the show was from what Star Trek was supposed to be... so he ran off w his tail between his legs and moved the show out of any and all canon.
That's how it actually went down.
@@ScoobySnacksYum This was literally the case, it's why Fuller was forced out when he refused Lez Moonves's demands to do so.
If you think Star Trek is/isn't "action fantasy", you've probably entirely missed the point. It is and always has been about the characters. Disco rightfully can be a bit criticized for being a tad Burnham heavy and ignoring some of the ensemble, but I just find your assessment to be off base, especially the with the "some say" assertion. Who is actually saying this? Many people? With tears in their eyes?
Yeah, I also had the complaint that they might as well be using magic at this point now due to the 'tech' that far ahead.
Personal teleporters and programmable matter to make anything appear out of thin air.... nahhh... a step too far !!
There's one constant through all the Trek series for me, regardless of how high on my fave list they rank: I don't love all of the execution, but I usually love the ideas and how they are explored. Call me hooked on sci-fi, and Trek is definitely among my favourites.
I have criticisms, alot honestly, though they come from a place of affection.
That said, this was a good reminder at exactly how GOOD Discovery looks, even if us ship-porn guys rarely got a good look at those ships (early on at least).
Gorgeous series, great actors. Even if it ends up being kind of the 'weird' series for a while like Enterprise once was.
Really enjoyed watching this Sean and Co. Excellent work as always. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Disco ranks lowest on my list of all Treks.
1) The first three seasons are all 'High Stakes, Low Rewards" . They build up this great and interesting story and the season finale rolls around and you're like "That's......That's it?"
2) Everything revolves around Michael, and only Michael can solve the problem. TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, etc everyone contributes to the problem and solves the problem. Sometimes Geordi solves it, sometimes it's Data. Sometimes it's Sisko, and sometimes it's Bashir, or Paris. But with DSC, only Michael can solve it. Which leads me to..
3) Lack of bridge crew representation. It took me 3 seasons before I knew the other crew members names. Bryce, Rhys, Detmer do nothing except a few lines here and there. Just glorified background. When Airiam died, the writers expected us to care, and...why? You didn't do anything with the character that made audiences sympathize or care about her.
4) Michael doesn't respect the chair, and the writers seems to pat themselves on the back for it. Commits mutiny in the first episode and stripped of rank. Then promoted back to Commander, then Captain (over Saru) and then demoted again by Admiral Vance for disobeying orders, Michael solves the problem then Vance goes "Oh yeah, we have rules but you breaking the rules is the kinda person we need in Starfleet. My bad. You're back to being a Captain"
Seriously?!??
Additional: 5) Wayyyy too much "lets get emotional" moments that slows the plot down.
It could be a serious, tense situation happening, or a revelation, and suddenly it's "How do you feel? Are you okay? I'm here for you. We're a family"
Imagine watching "Best of Both Worlds Part 1" where Picard is kidnapped by the Borg. Every one is on the edge trying to find ways of getting to Picard and how to rescue him. That's good!
"Best of Both Worlds Part 2" Guinan visits Riker in the Ready Room to discuss Picard, and letting him go. Pivotal, slower pace scene, but pivotal.
If this happened in DSC.... "The Borg have taken the Captain!"
"Well how do you feel about this? The crew is sad they he's gone. Ok lets hug it out, hold your hand and say its going to be alright because you're around loved ones. We're not gonna let them get assimilated"
So many episodes where something disastrous is happening or about to happen, and we're in their quarters comforting characters.
Like c'mon!! Something serious is happening, let's go!! Move the plot forward!!
Look, if you like DSC. That's all you. Go enjoy it. You do you.
But DSC ranks the lowest for me.
to emphasize point 2, the ep with the time loop that only the engineer is aware of and thus is the only one who can do anything, they STILL made it about Burnham solving it
Tbh, I agree with all of these points 100%
Your points summed up perfectly my problems with the show. Till this day, I can only name three crew members.
this show over uses the word family more than the Fast and Furious franchise
I just have a comment concerning Michael and Kirk. Kirk’s whole character is based off of him not following rules. He’s consistently demoted in the movies and always goes rogue in the series, breaking the prime directive whenever he likes. I’ve always been confused why people didn’t see that Michael is very much created to be black female Kirk. Imo. Or like Ro Laran in disobeying orders on principle and in the end climbing high into starfleet security. Maybe it was the writing that people objected to, making her in later seasons the only one who could figure out and fix every situation. I just didn’t understand why people didn’t like her character.
Sean, I love your enthusiasm. I have zero disagreements with any of the points you raised. But to me, that makes it all the more disappointing for the series. They had ALL the pieces of the puzzle and just didn't deliver on the finished product. I'm not going to go into the detail of all the things that missed the mark. I stuck around from the start and will continue to do so until the very end. But the phrase that pops into my head the most when watching this summary is "Yeah, that's unfortunate." because you're right about all the good stuff.
The bottom line for me is that even if you went into it knowing in advance all the points you raise, when you're finished with it you'd come away with nothing more. And that's why it is disappointing for me.
OK!!!I think I will finish season 4, simply because I made it that far. There's a lot to like... but when Strange New Worlds showed up... THAT show reminded me of everything I love about Star Trek.
I don’t hate Disco but, after taking several runs at trying to get into it, I am confident in saying it just isn’t my Trek. Even so, I’m not going to 💩on it because some of my fellow Trekkies enjoy it and I respect that.
Also, as others have mentioned, it has opened the door for “Strange New Worlds,” which I very much enjoy, and other new adventures as well.
its garbage you know it and so do they
@@tc539 I talked to someone the other day about SNW, and he said, "nah, I tried but I just can't get into it. It's not good like Discovery". It boggled my mind a bit... but everyone has different tastes, you know? I don't have to like every show, neither do you, and neither does he.
In case you're curious I asked what he liked and disliked about both shows, and he said he dislikes the episodic nature of SNW, and really enjoys the "each season is a single long story" thing that Discovery does. That's the exact opposite of me.
@@jasonwalker9471 I like DSC better than SNW. SNW is good but a bit too much of TOS revisited.
This kind of criticism is appreciated. It's not your cup of tea and I can respect that. You're not spewing hate all over the internet. You don't want to slight those who think differently. I wish all of us could disagree so civilly with each other, and for reasons we can clearly articulate, rather than obsessively trash the show and its characters in a way that seems so hateful and personal. Thanks for stating your case so gracefully.
I like parts of Discovery. Like I’ll always be grateful it gave us Anson Mount as Christopher Pike, and Ethan Peck as young Spock, and Michelle Yeoh in a Section 31 movie.
I think you hit the nail on the head with that.
Except this isn't what section 31 is.
@@NeonVisual I really don’t care. More Michelle Yeoh = More Good
Anson Mount and Ethan Peck are boring
I might take some flack for this, but I think the first two seasons of Discovery are the best up to this point. We will have to see what season 5 has in store for us.
Thank you, Sean. Disco is interesting, but I don’t think your list helps my concerns, which are production design and writing
1. The show is too dark. I don’t mean the tone. The background colors and soft lighting often made it hard to see what is happening. Not made for civilian tv sets.
2. The idea that this tech and detail is before TOS doesn’t work for me. I watched TOS on a black-and-white set, and I can’t believe for a moment this is that era. (SNW bothers me slightly less.)
3. The spore drive is indeed a MacGuffin, and not one that’s even consistent. At one point we found out its use was destroying the spores. But they kept using it. We’ve seen this speed limit mistake before.
It wasn't the spore drive that was destroying the spores, it was the spore burning generator on Emperor Georgiou's flagship in the mirror universe that was doing it. And because the "spore network" flowed through the entire subspace domain, it crossed universes. If the damage reached a critical point it would become self propagating (at least to some degree), and damage or destroy the spore network in surrounding universes as well.
Also, when Dr. Culber's consciousness was transported into whatever domain of the spore network he ended up in, his presence there was causing damage. He was just too alien to survive there, and vise versa. But Discovery's jumps weren't causing serious damage, it was having a creature from another dimension (or whatever) in that part of the network that was damaging it.
I've always liked Discovery. Even the new take on Klingons didn't bother me. It's been a fun ride and I'm looking forward to the final season.
My issue with Discovery are the characters, the dialogue and the Klingons, aside from Saru and Culber I find the others to be boring, the characters, particularly Burnham have the habit of whispering their lines, and I'm sorry the Klingon makeup was so far off
Sound is poor - though it's hardly the only series to be that.
Sean…has there been an announced date for the first episode airing of Discovery’s 5th season?
I was on board (more or less) from the begining. I didnt like the direction it tried to brute force into existence but I still watched it for what was relevant out of it. I did NOT want it because why did we need a 2nd prequel?!? But from the first episode aired I judged it on its merits. I can disagree but I "still believe in the mission". I can see some good things there. I also can see some ridiculous things that fans made worse than what they are all while ignoring other things just as equally bad, Like the Klingons. I still continued to look for the potential and slowly but surely it developed into a trek series.
But I say this with all sincerity and with not an ounce of malice, Discovery gave us FAR worse than it even hinted at giving. It really and truly was. Trek was always about exploring the human condition. Presenting you with a bad situation when the only choices left were bad ones. Yet it still at its darkest it still allowed you to examine the situation and consider how you would go. It did not force itself on the audience.
Unfortunately that behavior is firmly entrenched in Discoverys DNA. It goes out of its way to snub its politics in the audiences face. Regardless if the audience sees that as an offense, or if they yearn for the bukakke. Its that narrow, one sided perspective to story telling that is not really in treks history and why Discovery is never really going to fit in with existing trek.
Its just too edgy for edgy's sake.
I have no hate for discovery, and love all the characters and the actors that portray them. The thing that keeps me from loving it is mainly the focus on Burnham. Not that Burnham is a bad character, and Sonequa is an amazing actor, but she was too heavily the focus on the show. Add to that that the stakes had to be galaxy level every season, and I had trouble really enjoying it.
That said, the last season gave more focus to other characters, so I'm starting to warm up. The ensemble part of trek is quite important to me.
Very fair points!!!
growing up in the 90's, id watch episodes here and there of trek, but as a kid i never really "got it". i liked it, and there's an episode of voyager that id still think about through the years (the one with the planet out of sync with time and the doctor goes down to the planet for 3 years/a few minutes). and picard was my first captain. the new movies renewed an interest for trek in me, but it wasnt till Lower Decks that i really started watching TV Trek again. followed by all Disco, SNW, TNG, DS9, Voy. i needed a break after that before ENT and TOS. so for me, LD was kind of my gateway drug, and Dis made me confident that i should go back and watch all Trek.
Thank you for a positive comment that not underhanded shady
Ok, here is a quizy question, for all the technology depicated in Discovery, that is at the Federations disposal... you would wonder what level on the Kardashev Scale the Federation are at with the 1000 years advancement. Also you consider the idea of where are the seperate Jurati Borg, you would think that they are helping with the Issue of Warp capability and communications issue, in the broken Federation.
I am so glad that I had the chance to binge watch ST:DISCO seasons 1-4 without knowing about any of the hate going on about this show. I absolutely loved seasons 1-2, season 3 was ok but season 4 could have been better. It was because of this show that my love for Star Trek was renewed and got me watching the rest of new Trek shows which I also enjoy. Not saying the show is perfect, no show is. But to spend time watching a show you dislike or just hate then spend more time on social media telling everyone how much you hate it, just seems like a waste of time to me. So far this last season of DISCO I’m going to watch season 5 like I did seasons 1-4, without the hate and belittling of characters that I like from people who have obviously nothing better else to do with their time.
Just not the biggest fan of a serialised season. Doesn’t leave room for the classic one parters.
Didn't help that every single season was about end-of-the-world/federation/galaxy-as-we-know-it scenarios. I don't mind Star Trek going grimdark every now and then, but even the darkest ST still had scriptroom for some some funny episodes. Meanwhile, comedy bits in DIS just feel out of place.
It didn't really hook me with season 1 and season 2 was okay. Dropped it after that. I didn't like a lot of the characters and I thoight the writing was poor. Don't hate it, but definitely don't like it. Not something I feel like putting time and effort into watching.
The show that got me into Trek. Still love it, but yeah has sense fallen down the list to 3rd or 4th favorite for me.
I started as a hater, but I gave the show another chance when season 2 came out, started over from the beginning and fell in love. After they resolved the Lorca storyline the show came into its own. The characterization and longer character story arcs are especially rich.
My hope is that if a particular part of Trek is not your jam, then don't watch it.
I do not like Lower Decks, but im not going to go to every single post just to bash it.
I was really scared about the SNW crossover, but dang it if it really did work out cause SNW can be quirky, funny AND serious in one season, episode etc.
Just the fact Bolimer reassured the Una was on Starfleet recruitment posters just gave me the wram and fuzzes.
A fan of the franchise job is to love it, not piss on everything that you don't like.
My kids can get into Trek with Prodigy and we watch like i watched TNG with my mom in the 90's.
We didn't have no Trek on small or big screen for YEARS, and it comes back to a vocal minority that has nothing better to do then go online to complain!?!
Like jeez be happy Trek is on and if someone doesn't understand the emotional impact of something take the time to bond and show them the old stuff you live and that lore.
But stop getting on the web to moan and complain
Reaching with this one, big time. Still seems like this channel really does dismiss the reasons a lot of Trekkies can't stand Discovery. There's plenty I could list here, but there's a quote that Todd Stashwich recently brought up on how, at its best, Star Trek doesn't tell the viewer what to think, just asks that they think. For me this core concept was the opposite in Discovery. I never felt like it was trying to get viewers to think about anything from a different point of view. Just telling them what they needed to think. That is when it wasn't going from one convoluted plot point to the next. For me, though, it's a show I could have just ignored if it weren't for the time jump. The fact that they went and decided to set nearly a millennia of history and leave fans with such a bleak outcome is something I can only hope that future show-runners figure out how to retcon. It gave us SNW, though, so I'll give it points for that.
I also believe the showrunners think their audience is stupid and that's why they never take any meaningful chances with ideas or questions (as you said)
Older Trek thought the audience was intelligent... As a viewer you felt that in the ways the stories and characters played out.
With Discovery and all Kurtzman Trek, it always feels like they're so insecure so there is no meaning. Everything is empty.
I sure couldn't predict everything that was going to happen. Plus it takes into account a lot of sides.. A good example is Ash Tyler being Voq. Part human and part Klingon. It made me think more about both sides rather than saying "Klingon bad, Human good" That's just one example. I found myself really rooting for characters as well, I knew what I wanted them to do, but it made me think of what they were actually going to do. I don't know maybe I'm just not that intelligent though.
well, what would you call Data? Data had to constantly dumb down the technobabble. its ok at least you gave a well though out reason WHY you didnt like it
"Older Trek thought the audience was intelligent" - if that were true they wouldn't have given captains log exposition dumps every 10 minutes to spell it out in crayons for their "intelligent" audience what was happening and what to think. That's why Discovery feels different because there are hardly any captains logs, and why you all think you're smarter for disliking it.... you can't actually conceptualise any meaningful thoughts about any given situation without the captain literally spelling it out for you first in layman's terms.
@@SA80TAGE not only that but it was up to Spock to explain the “technobabble”. The same with Data in TNG and Jadzia(I guess ) in DS9 so there’s that I guess
I never hated it, but found the first two seasons hard to love; 3rd was better but somethings about "some" of the characters still bothered me ( except Michelle Yeoh; because wow Michelle Yeoh right ) but without Disco we wouldn't have Strange New Worlds and that show has been my favourite of all the new trek including movies since DS9
I liked the assorted rogues in early Season 3. Osyraa had personality but she was a cardboard villain worthy of Captain Proton. The most fun Burnham had in the series was when she was being interrogated while drugged.
The two halves of season 1 seemed disjoined, and then came the 31st century time jump. The whole show felt like it was endlessly and awkwardly attempting to course correct and I felt as though there were events from the first season that needed to be fleshed out that were simply abandoned.
I gave up halfway through last season, I'll stick w/ Lower Decks and strange New Worlds
I've loved DISCO from the beginning and still do. It's the Star Trek that I watch with my mom, who loves it as well, when she comes to visit, and I'm always going to have that association with the show and cherish it extra because of that.
That was TNG to me & looking at the TV interviews back then people didn't like TNG either
@@danielland3767 - With some people it takes them longer to come around and realize what we got. I always love encountering others' stories where they bond with their moms over Star Trek, coz you know those are AWESOME moms!
i dont hate discovery i just dont like how every season of it is a season long story i prefer star trek when its more episodic beacause then its more rewatchable i dont have to know what happened in the episode before to know whats going in the episode im watching
if I can even start to rewatch the first season without out sighing before the opening credits I'll confirm your findings
I really like ST Discovery and I am sad that season 5 will be it's end. I very much enjoyed the fact that it was different from other ST. And I am so very grateful it gave us Strange New Worlds which has got to be my favourite Star Trek ever (Lower Decks being a close second).
SNW is amazing. 👏 It is so well written, and the actors are terrific!
I really enjoy Discovery. I think the visuals and acting are well done, and I’ll always be a fan of Captain Saru.
I like it a Lot, and push the franchise foward in the timelime and giving us more new canon and developments in tech, thank you for this video, maybe young generations aré more in tune with it
The trouble with Star Trek is that the shows of the 1960's and the 1990's had the spirit of avoiding war. Even the 2000's show Enterprise arc with the Xindi was about exploring the Expanse, figuring out the mystery of the spheres, and finding allies among the Xindi in order to sabotage and stop the weapon from destroying Earth. There were plenty of honorable last stands--such as with the Enterprise C and Voyager, and the Dominion, showing what Star Trek was in terms of responding to war. Therefore, we all knew that the TNG movies weren't in the spirit of Star Trek. However, the showrunners, the actors, and the fans were never, ever going to rest until each and every Star Trek series turned into a war, because that is the nature of fans.
Let's face it, it's bad. It made me watch some episodes on fast forward. I NEVER do that to shows I watch first time. It never provoke me to think, it never let me invest emotionally. Only names that I remember are Saru, Tilly and Pike. Only ones that I somewhat care about them. I don't even remember first name of main protagonist, Burnham, and that is fucked up.
I like it. Although I struggled a bit for Season One, when we got Pike on board for Season Two, then the series worked. Shame we’re coming to the last season.
Right! As long the Captain a strong male figure, you're happy 🙄
@@RVandergeld Nah! Gender doesn’t matter. Pike’s a legacy character that further strengthened Disco’s place in ST canon. This also introduced us to Spock and his family. LLAP!🖖🏽
I couldn't get past 5 episodes of Season 1. Discovery felt completely antithetical to Roddenberry's Trek with the dystopian and dark tone and the characters were all unlikable, especially the main character who was insufferable and insubordinate and had absolutely no business being a part of Starfleet, and the serialized format did it no favors either. Discovery may be called Star Trek but it had none of the spirit of Star Trek. The only good thing it did was it led to Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks, which are actually good Trek shows.
I enjoyed virtually all of Star Trek Discovery. I didn't like the Klinglon redesign, but I didn't like the TNG redesign at first, too. I personally love that DS9, Discovery, TNG, weren't clones of TOS.
And clone of TOS is what they wanted
I don’t hate it. It made so many other shows possible. Including my all time favorite Lower Decks.
I am not sure why… I watch the discovery episodes…but I don’t rewatch it like I do the original series, or STNG, or lower decks, and even strange new worlds.
I’m grateful for what discovery has provided. But I doubt I’ll ever love it.
Lower Decks is INCREDIBLE!!! ❤
Discovery didn't birth any of these things, except strange new worlds, which is as bad as disco for it's childish writing and highschool melodrama.
@@NeonVisual - Agreed. Not sure if any of the writing team read this stuff but they should know that lots of us love TNG and don't actually find it to be boring at all.
I liked and defended Seasons 1 and 2 but season 3 went down hill halfway through with its lazy writing and convoluted plot "twists." I blame Michelle Paradise, the lead writer for seasons 3 onward who previously led writing for shows like Riverdale. Why she was chosen to take over lead writing responsibilities baffles me and angers me that instead of getting good, well thought out professional Star Trek stories, we ended up with CW Young Adult Drama trash. Spending more time (and billions of lives) with the petty romance between characters rather face the situation at hand in season 4 not to mention the lame cheesy fight in the eternal elevator on board the Discovery in Season 3 just ruined any future for the show. Add the constant whispering lines, lack of character development, and "Michael Burnham saves the Universe again and again and again!" gets old very quickly. It is clear that Paradise was more interested in writing young adult drama than an actual story and has little to no knowledge of what makes a good Star Trek series. I hope to never see her lead another Star Trek project after this wreck!
RIVERDALE? Holy crap!! I figured that show was conceived when a bunch of executive went out for drinks and after the 8th appletini one of them blurted out, "What if David Lynch created the Archies?"
In ten years when people are saying its good wishing for more episodes ill be here just like i was when they did it with enterprise to say "i told you so" because discovery is actually good... you just cant binge watch the thing there is too much going on youll miss a lot.
Did anyone else play Discovery bingo?
- Is there going to be some crying and hugs this episode?
- Will Burnham talk at 150mph that you can’t understand the solution to a problem?
- Is Tilly gonna be annoying and interrupt a superior officer this episode?
- Will Saru spout some wisdom to an officer today?
- Will there be a change to cannon?
- Is there a social issue they have to tackle this episode?
You get the picture.
I do feel that, whilst there are gems within the series, they are few and far between, and maybe my expectations were too high for, what was, the flagship series to the franchise.
I enjoyed some of the performances, but apart from Saru, they are mostly from none of the ensembled cast.
I hope it gets a strong send off, but I don’t think I’ll be rewatching it like I do with all the other series (Picard not included)
A lot of those come under one of my major issues with it, that the characters don't seem to have the discipline and decorum that the old series kept all of the Star Fleet officers to.
With Lower Decks, its a comedy series that runs on that tone combined with the majority of the crew being oddballs and screwups which is why we like them. Picard S1 wasn't a starfleet ship or crew and when in the Fleet for season 2 and 3, the characters acted as they should...
One day I saw an interview with one of the creators, and they've explained their creative process more or less as "how does this affects Michael? Does this moves her story forward?"
That's the moment where it clicked for me. It is intentional. They do it on purpose. She IS the centre of the universe.
Ok, you do you. Glad we clarified that. Wish I knew since season 1, though, would've saved me time.
But thanks for Pike and Spock!
It's not that Michael is the center of the universe as much as the series is her story and was always meant to be about an orphan's journey, which is a classic story in literature.
@@ScoobySnacksYum Please stop trying to justify the poor writing and awful character arc for Burnham. The story is following her, it's narcissistically obsessed with her. The story bends for her. If she's wrong, the story is changed so that she was right all along.
That's not literature, that's Mary Sue fan fiction.
@@ScoobySnacksYum, hi to you too! I'm afraid you missed the point of the joke - I meant that they should've been upfront about it being that character's show instead of an ensemble cast. That's what I was expecting when I started, since every Trek was an ensemble up to that point.
Also, even for a personal show I think the writing could've been significantly better. She feels like a self-insert, all important character, like if Wesley Crusher (with my respects to Will Weathon) got a soap opera spin-off.
@@scoutiii8893 Discovery has always been primarily Burnham tale regardless of whether the writing sucked. There's no narcissism in the character of Michael any more than there was in Kirk. When you watched Picard, didn't you expect the story to center on Jean Luc Picard?
Um, were you good with Kirk and Picard being the center of the universe of those shows? Sure you were. How is Michael different from them (no worries, it's a rhetorical question)?
I actually really like Discovery. Yeah the plot struggles (a lot) sometimes but the characters more then make up for it.
Also while season 1 has been far from perfect it is one of the better first trek seasons, definitely surpassing tng and voy season 1
The only good thing coming out of Disco is Strange New Worlds and the resurgence of Michelle Yeoh. The first 2 seasons were actually not bad but it got somewhat repetitive, especially the overly emotional parts in the following two seasons .
No way - destroying the characters and back stories of Spock, Uhura and no longer nurse Chapel means I hate it. Spock as a incarcerated mental patient and Uhura as a teenager? Ridiculous.
Uhura's character is developed in any single episode of SNW more than it ever was in TOS (the wonderful Nichelle Nichols deserved so much better). She's not a teen-ager in the show; she was in her early 20s as a cadet and is moving toward mid-20s now. SNW's portrayal of Chapel is pure redemption; the original depiction of her as a doormat who was only there to moon over Spock was embarrassing. I love badass Chapel. And Spock is no longer "incarcerated." Hot Spock is awesome.
It took me a while to warm up to it, but I kept an open mind, and I eventually grew to love this show. After watching this video, I appreciate Discovery even more! Thanks!
Season 5? *sigh* Okay, sure. I am a bit of a glutton for punishment.
For the love of Saru!
Discovery was rather good, especially in its first 2 seasons. But it shouldn't have killed of Captain Gabriel Lorca: revealing him as a Mirror Universe doppelganger was a rather good twist- but the original Lorca should've been seen and his fate determined.
The war aspect- it worked for Deep Space Nine.
The spore drive: In real life, the US Navy used several propulsion6 systems for its submarines, from diesel to electric-turbine, to nuclear, so why should Starfleet be beholden to only the warp drive?
As for the Klingons- don't forget that they're an Empire, enough reason to explain their differing looks.
I’m only 2 seasons in and I don’t get the criticism. It’s so well done. The writing, the acting, the set design and effects. It’s all top notch. I really enjoy it and it’s too bad it isn’t appreciated for how good it is.
I can't believe how much time has passed since disco started, and it is still just not enough. I'm so saddened to see it go.
There's a funny way that _Discovery_ keeps playing jarring notes, and then it somehow manages to stick the landing by the season's end. It's like they have a great story, but then other elements get added in along the way that don't quite feel like they belong. They're different for different people, too. Some freaked out about Michael being an adopted sister to Spock (my only reaction was, "This had better be going somewhere." And it did!). Some didn't like one character or another. It's a lot of different reasons, though, and most are different from my dislikes. But every season has been different, and every one (except, for my money, season 1) sticks the landing.
I honestly believe that most of what I don't like is just the way shows are made today. _Strange New Worlds_ is a bit old-fashioned, like something from the Oughts, and that pace works better for someone over 50 years old. _Discovery_ has a lot of tics, like extravagant camera motions, and emotional beats that work jarringly instead of smoothly with the larger story. These may just be the way a 2020s TV show is made, though.
No matter what, though, it's totally Star Trek. Starfleet aren't flawless, but they are always trying to find a way to do the right thing. Communication and making moral decisions win out over having the most guns. The stories examine the worst that could happen, then navigate away from that outcome towards a better one. And I will never forget that this was the show where Starfleet Headquarters flew to a world's rescue, which is pretty much the coolest thing ever. For that I can easily forgive Michael Burnham having almost as much omni-talented Main Character Syndrome as Tom Paris over on _Voyager._
The Burnham whisper-shout is something I will not miss when the show ends.
I watched season 1 and 2. Yeah it had it's good moments and I liked several things. But I didn't care about most of the crew. I liked Tilly and Saru, but Michael Burnham was a Mary Sue and the rest of the crew were meh. It says something that, for me, the best part of Discovery season 2 was the Enterprise. The Enterprise, Pyke and Spock. I do intent to watch season 3 and onward at some point, though, just because I want to find out what happens in the 32nd century.
I watched the first 2 episode of season 1 and lost interest till Pike was introduced in season 2. Season 2 kept my interest but it's not something I go back and rewatch. Discovery got interesting for me when they went into the future, I felt it was finally standing on its own. Then they had to go and cancel it when it started getting interesting. Felt like Enterprise all over again.
Admiral Vance is awesome - oozes Starfleet.
@@JohnnyWednesday I didn't know at first if I would like him. But as it turns out, he's a character I came to admire. He embodied, unfailing dedication to the mission, loyalty, and a serious give it all, in his character.
@@warrenpoultney8215 - it's what Disco needed from the start : professionals doing their job well.
I don't hate it, I just don't like it
Same I wish it was not so political
That's okay. I'll say it. I hate it. I didn't like the klingons and some things about the first and second season. But when they put a trill symbiote in a human permanently then the character wanted others to use their preferred pronouns, I had enough. I get it, youre virtuous. You're better than everyone else and probably use the word 'bigot' daily. I have no problem with using someone's preferred pronouns irl but I don't need it shoehorned in my favorite IP.
It’s written horribly…it’s main character is laughable. The show is so bad on so many levels. Tilly, and Saru and the redhead with optical implants are excellent characters. They played with Spock too much I mean, really Spock is only the way he is because of Big Mike…I mean Michael Burnham?? Lol see the first three words of me reply.
My sentiments exactly!
No hate, just no love.
I forced myself through the first season, but I found the entire season to be boring. I couldn’t force myself to watch more.
I watched it. I enjoyed it - at times…. I was frustrated by it, enraged by it (metaphorically) at times but enjoyed it best when Pike, Spock and Number One entered the picture. The Klingons were a hot mess from day one, let’s face it. The plot-lines convoluted and almost impossible to follow. The social-commentary were stuffed in like a fat guy trying to get into a bikini. They could have just incorporated them into the scenes and scripts and let the viewer figure it out - as has SNW. So, I watched it, am glad it has led to more ST. SNW shows what this could have been had the soap-box been put away where nobody could find it. The blame has nothing to do with the actors or writers but lies squarely at the feet of the producers, directors and show-runners. Glad it happened but won’t shed a bloody tear when it joins the dearly departed. Bring on more SNW and PULL YOUR FINGERS OUT and let’s have “Legacy” - ASAP.
Id say im at about an 8/10. The visuals and acting are great. So was the makeup and prosthetics. I like the spore drive thing but im not a fan of the world ending season long arcs. Also I cant forgive how Discos internals looked during that turbo lift fight. Its beyond non sensical in scale and design. Love the ships look though.
I haven't loved everything Disco has done, but I have loved the show overall. Mostly because it's so full of heart & it's earnest and genuine.
I have always liked Discovery. Its weird in some places, but it was a breath of fresh air of something new compared to the same format from Next Gen through Enterprise.
I have loved it from the start ❤
There are some great secondary characters. If they got rid of the Mary Sue, you wouldn't lose anything, but you'd gain sooo much
The Mary Sue? But Kirk was not a Gary Stu, right? Ha! There's a bit of comment in your misogynoir.
@@Donnagata1409 hahaha my God, you're a moron. I suggest you study some very basic literary criticism and stop projecting.
@@Donnagata1409 You nailed it. Misogynoir is the issue with a majority of the haters. You can tell because they don't make objective critical observations, but descend immediately into derision and name-calling and it is always directed at Michael.
This video brings to light how much went into this series, from props, to special effects, set, 'creature' and starship design. So much talent, and the writing just wrecks all of it. Im so happy Strange New Worlds was released to give hope to the franchise.
By Grabthar's hammer, by Beverly Crusher's possessed candle, there is no Star Trek premise stupider than The Burn.
It's even worse than "what does God need with a starship?" and that's saying a lot. @@Trelane574
Season 1 and 2 were alright, but was WAY too much Michael Burnham.
Season 3-4 made the ships of the future so stupid looking, I couldn't watch it.
I’ve watched every episode and I’ll watch the finale, but it never really clicked with me and I doubt I’ll ever rewatch it. For those who enjoyed it I’m sorry to see it go, but the only moment that I really loved is when the crew refused to commit genocide to save the federation.
As a trekkie from all the way back to the 60s, my family and I have watched every episode ever made and every motion picture. Everything from Pike to Kirk and Pike to Picard. I tried to watch discovery, I really did. But it was just too painful.