Vocoder Roundup - Roland Boutique VP-03, MicroKORG, Xils V+, Digitech Talker
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- A look at some vocoding options:
Dedicated FX - Digitech Talker
Synth with Vocoder - MicroKORG
'Vintage' Vocoder - Roland Boutique VP-03
Software - Xils-Lab V+
/ starskycarr
1:43 General observations and comments
4:52 Roland Boutique VP-03
7:02 MicroKORG 37
11:37 Digitech Talker
13:22 XIls vs Boutique
15:53 Xils-Lab V+
19:56 Just the sounds
Digitech sounds very very similar to daft punk's vocoder, probably the closest one to them
YES!! I love it!!!!
Yes hi fellow Daft Punk fan
Actually, it is the Daft Punk vocoder. Congrats. You found it. I found it here, though... www.reddit.com/r/DaftPunk/comments/8tzlqr/after_8_years_ive_managed_to_figure_out_what/
No, Daft Punk use the Sennheiser VSM201 vocoder and it is the best one
@@markone3816 they used that one on last album but on discovery it was Roland VP-9000, also EMS2000 and Roland SVC-350
One great solution to make any vocoder sound so much better is:
A real mic preamp, an eq and compressor BEFORE your mic goes into the vocoder.
In other words a standard vocal mic setup. But that would require lots of heavy expensive equipment. Especially if your doing a live gig.
My solution to this is the TC-Helicon Voice Tone T1. A small pedal doing all of the above. Then you get a good vocal sound into your vocoder. There lot's of different "all in one box" mic preamps but this one is the smallest (cheapest) and best I've found so far
The vocoders included microphones aren't any good. So i connect a ordinary vocal mic into the T1 and then into the vocoder.
If you play live you don't want to carry that extra mic+cables+micstand; these things are standard PA equipment stuff that's already available at the venue. In most cases anyway.
I just ask for an extra mic+stand on my rider and then just bring my vocoder( ultranova ..Jdx1 or whatever) and the little Voice tone T1 pedal.
Usually most clubs have a whole bunch of, for example, Shure Sm58 mic's.
I often see people mumble into the microphone. Maybe cause they don't want to hear their own voice/uncomfortable as a singer. It just sounds muffled and bad.
But that's the whole point isn't it, its the vocoder signal that goes out. You can be way out of pitch as much as you want :)
I often see that when someone demos vocoders on You tube. A bit unfair to the product which maybe actually could sound really good.
Just speak(sing) loud and clear into you mic. Keep a little bit of distance from the mic. That way you get a better sound in and out of your vocoder. In a live situation you also avoid feedback problems when you are surrounded with drums and guitars just blasting away all around you
Happy vocoding :)
+tekknosapien thanks ... good tips :)
how do u avoid feed back probs
I use the Electro harmonix iron lung as my vocoder. Clear tone, but a bit of after effects to make it crisp and really understandable.
@@rct3isepic what effects do you use?
@@awesomekid8922 usually just a compressor and an EQ
Damn, the Digitech Talker sounds amazing!
The talker is definitely clearest. I'm from the states and the talker was the only one with enough definition for me to hear your accent. It sounded amazing!
Haha not sure if that’s a good thing !
@@StarskyCarr oof
Wow the video is exactly what i searched. Thank you!
The third vocoder we see at the start is cool!
Sounds like daft punk RAM vocoder style
listening to black metal as a kid helps me not only to distinguish what you say on vocoder but also helps a lot understanding people with weird accents
Digitech Talker at 11:47. You're welcome.
I think the beastie boys track was an analog single space rack unit, I can’t remember the name right now, let me check.
Next vox II
Wow - Digitech Talker sounds great!
months and months of watching videos, reading the manual and I could not make the vocoder of XILS work. FINALLY, thanks to your video I realise the problem: wasn't pressing playback on my DAW. Why on earth would they do that??? Anyhow, forever indebted to you Starsky! Now I can play the choruses on Duchess by Genesis. Love the subtle use of the Vocoder Plus by Tony Banks. Also, made for a passable mellotron choir in Los Endos live.
Thanks for a great walk-through
!
You can't get a Digitech Talker cheaper than £600 these days, and you often see them for sale for £1,200...
Whoa… looks like I bought it at the right time! I thought it was a bit pricey back then!
@@StarskyCarr Yes, you caught the wave early.
I saw one of the actual vintage 70's vocoders used by Kraftwerk on eBay many years ago and had a chance to buy it for what would have been a relatively reasonable price. I can't remember how much it was, but I didn't find it very high, just more than I was wanting to spend on a vocoder as I wasn't too fussed about the pedigree, just the sound.
Vocoders definitely weren't in vogue then, and the rush on vintage analogue gear and 70's/80's electronic music nostalgia hadn't really kicked in yet either. It's got a bit ridiculous the last few years, so I wonder how much it would have been worth today with that kind of provenance...
I originally bought a VP-03 as I already have the Roland Boutique JU-06A and thought their range must all be damn good. Plus, as a youth, I bought a second hand Roland RS-09 (remember them?) Organ/String Synth which the VP-03 keys are modelled on. Sadly, my RS-09 has a tendency to go out of tune and is pre MIDI.
So, I thought with the VP-03, not only do I get to play my old string ensemble and lovely "Vox like" organ sound, I would also get a vocoder to boot! Yay!
However, after I got one, I didn't feel that the string synth sound very convincing, the organ was pretty cool, like the original, but the ensemble was just not the same as my vintage RS-09.
I think that that the addition of the Step Sequencer was nice and you could get quirky semi percussive vocoder sequences out of it.
Unfortunately, it was pretty underwhelming overall, way overpriced at around £600 and the transformer on the circuit board blew after just 2 days using it.
So, I got a Microkorg II+ which is absolutely brilliant at close to half the price brand new (£360). The vocoder is nice and the software makes changing settings pretty easy. The other patches on it such as the Mellatron Strings and Flute are amazing, there's some handy piano sounds and organ plus several useful pad sounds and other wierd and wonderful presets too. In fact, I don't miss my old RS-09 anymore.
Korg wins by a country mile over the Roland.
Of course you do have the option of using another mic on the VP-03 to get around the small size of the supplied one, so for gigging, another mic on a stand would be the preferred option! also you can also adjust the mic level internally on the VP-03 >> Press Memory >> 12 then adjust the mic level up/down using the numbered buttons, this works well for tweaking volume levels. You get a far better vocoder sound from the microkorg than I ever did, the microkorg XL+ was another good vocoder.
+Micro Banshee thanks for the comment. I did think about another mic or extension plus stand but there were so many leads, stands and tripods in the studio that it would've been a safety hazard - probably why it was annoying me so much.. just a few inches more would've made all the difference ;)
I totally agree the mic is way too short, another reason to look at the microkorg XL+ it was perfect in sound and length.. damn I wish I hadn't sold it! good comparison video and I've just subbed.
Digitech hands down is the clearest. What microphone are you running with it?
Mychal Fisher just an SM 58
Do you remember what vocoding mode the talker was on? And you were just using a single sawtooth wave?
I love roland vp7 . Superb device
I got my VP03 just last weekend I traded some gear that did not fit my setup so I almost got it for free!
This roundup is excellent!
It makes me wonder where my music would be if I had bought a microKorg years ago.
I understand the VP03 is modeling a old vintage machine, but I wish it had more options to change the sounds with a computer like the MicroKorg!
Behringer have an analogue vp-330 on the way.
Just seen the posts - very interesting
Watching some demos of the Behringer brought me here, boy does that thing sound nice.
@@robertleelubenyes - Starsky needs to review it (please!)!
Something I've gotten away with has been MIDI controlling the V256 Electro-Harmonix pedal through whatever keyboard I'm using at the time--I find that the variable number of bands with a dry/wet mix for the price is pretty great. However, I find the Microkorg's band panning pretty interesting. Of course panning 256 separate bands isn't perhaps the best use of a stereo field (unless it's totally isolated). I wish more companies considered the possibilities of this instrument; blown away that there aren't more options at a higher quality. Great video! So glad to find someone who presents things clearly and side-by-side with this stuff.
instagram.com/p/BXtFIYAgslB/?taken-by=the_saplings
You could do an updated version of this video now with the Arturia MicroFreak and Behringer VC340 included :)
I wish the VC340 had been in this mix (even though the Digitech Talker is the best vocoder here, by a long way).
Would like Starsky to compare the strings on the VC340, with the VP-03 (modeled on the same vintage stringer) and the B.Solina.
@@kierenmoore3236 I have both the VC340 and the B Solina which is a fantastic string machine. I love synths that do one or two things really well, like these two.
You shouldve just stopped the video at the prophet part, I melted, and can not go back.
VP-03 mic input is standard XLR.
...as is the MicroKorg II+
I would pay money for a hardware vocoder synth just to be able to sing 1969 by Boards of Canada... The Microkorg seems to do a decent job for the price.
thank you!
Great Demo! Have you considered a demo of the Microkorg 2 as a vocoder? Would be amazing another shootout including it? Am I crazy or the Digitech sounds way better than the others? At least in terms of intelligibility?
Intergalactic is Mam vocoder
Well you learn something new everyday. I always thought it was the Talker (obviously).
Digiteck talker is really hot! Still looking around to buy one. I would have liked to hear it without moogfooger to see if it's always sounds so impressive?
It does. It’s the best.
You can plug a regular XLR mic into the Roland, right? I know that increases cost, but would certainly help the main complaints, I'd think.
+Pete Brown yes, and even simpler would be to use an XLR extension. I have plenty but had so many leads running across the floor plus mic stands and tripods I was trying to keep things to a minimum. I'd need to attach it to another mic stand and didn't have enough space. If only it was a few inches longer..! Frustrating but not a deal breaker.
that chorus effect at 12:46 is so much out of phase that it almost totally cancels the signal if your switch to mono, FYI.
Even though it is in no way a justifiable piece of budget gear, but if you want a nice Blofeld keyboard with an improved streichfett engine and a bonus vocoder, I think the STVC by Waldorf is nice.just too expensive for the niche it fills
It’s kinda funny a microkorg, the microkorg XL, Korg R3 Novation mininova, and Alesis micron/Akai miniak can each be had for less than or about as much as the vp-03 or the vt04
I’ve not been lucky enough to try one yet.
Digitech sounds more better , than other. Very robotic, clear.
Jd-xi 'voc esemble' vocoder (first one) is quite good.
After my life long search for a decent vocoder, I finally ended up shelling out the cash for a Roland VC 350, nothing I have tried could come close.
Need a recap vs Behringer Vocoder VC 340
Haha... need a VC-340!! :)
A great comparison (as always). I am interested mainly in the strings of Xils / VP-03, and to some extent - in the human voices, and not so much in the vocoder. Currently Xils have finally a 30% discount, and I also found locally a used VP-03 for 250 EUR. From the results in this video I would choose VP-03, but in the Xils video where they compare their plug-in to the original VP330, they sound quite close together with the exception of the release tail on the high notes. There is also another comparison of the original, the Behringer's copy and VP-03 where VP-03 is obviously different than the original where the Behringer's is indistinguishable. So it seems Xils sounds worse than VP-3, but on the other hand very close to the original, and VP-3 is far from the original, so is it possible that although here VP-03 sounds better, the Xils version to be actually closer to the original? Behringer's is the obvious choice actually, but as it being a two-trick pony in general (for me), I am not sure whether it's worth it to pour 830 EUR in it, and sacrifice also both my limited physical space and inputs on the audio interface, or go with Xils for 100 EUR and forget about space limits (plus multi-instance support).
I’ve just recorded a demo of my SVC-350 this week which I’ll be editing this week T some point. I only tested it against the boutique… and although the boutique isn’t exactly the same (it wasn’t a thorough review) I was impressed with how close it was. Note though that it has an internal sawtooth but if you want to use other sources for the signal you have to use USB audio. but you’d be doing stuff in the computer anyway with the Xils so maybe not such a pain.
@@StarskyCarr Now that's called a swift reply! :) Thank you! I am egare to hear that comparison, if you will publish it. So, you still think the boutique is the better option than Xils? By the way, my Arturia Solina with some tweaking and EQ-ing at 1KHz can get pretty close in lower notes to Xils demo strings - the Blade Runner Blues sound is almost there, the main difference being in the attack and release. In the higher notes Arturia Solina sounds different than Xils, but more pleasant to my ears.
Digitech's the best!
whats your thoughts on the TC-Helicon Talkbox Synth Pedal?
11:54 What about the other vocoder presets on the Digitech Talker than just Nuvo?
EVERY DAY I regret selling my Digitech Talker
Brilliant shoot out ! You get great results from the korg. Much better than I have. Can I ask where you picked up the foam cover ?
+iamyourfuture808 hi, thanks glad you liked it. The foam cover was actually the spare from the VP03!!
WOK VSMINI is a nice character freeware VST vocoder.
Can you make more videos with Digitech talker?
I have one but don't know how to use very well. 🙏🏼
Digi now at a GRAND 😳
Wow
Blame Daft Punk!!
I used have a ROLAND SVC-350 VOCODER it sounded great, I now have Propellerheads reason 10 and the vocoder in that sounds just as good as the old 350 :)
What about the Roland JD-XI 😔
vp03 is love vp03 is life. i want one. so cool
I've never been able to make the vocoder on my microkorg work right
My favorites were the VP-03 and the Talker. They both have different characters which makes it useful to have both. I really didn't like the sound of the Korg, it sounded kind of muddy and would probably be a nightmare to have it sit in a mix. And the Xils also sounded flat, not that exciting compared to the VP-03 and Talker.
is that why it's more like £700 now!
You could've used a full sized keyboard and your own condenser microphone with the VP03. The VP03's XLR socket provides phantom power so you needn't have strained with the bundled gooseneck. How come you can't use the strings/voice sounds on the CP03 as a carrier? Seems odd. The Microkorg lets you use several diferent waveforms/patches as the vocoder's carrier so why not the VP03?
Thanks for the comment. A few folks have mentioned the mic - the reason I was so frustrated was that a couple more inches would have meant it worked fine, but as it was I would’ve needed to add more leads, mics and stands which although do-able takes up a lot of space, especially when you’ve a lot going on in the studio already. A couple more inches would’ve meant it was such a much neater solution - making it even more frustrating :)
Great video ! Id love to know which mic you used on the digitech talker demo ! :-)
Thanks, I think it was just an SM58, nothing fancy.
Hello Behringer!
Thanks for this!! Despite getting a decent vocoder track....I found the most difficulty in sitting it in the mix. Do you have any comments on mixing? Again, great video..Thanks!!
+johnnyborealis it depends if it’s your voice or not - even when vocoded it can be horrible to hear yourself ;)... which normally leads to mixing problems - trying to blend it with the track while keeping it intelligible is difficult. Don’t forget it’s a vocal and could maybe use a little reverb or delay etc to help it sit nicely.
Woah! Never thought of adding reverb or delay...will definitely try that. I used compression which helped slightly. Cheers!
can you a tutorial to use them on logic pro X please ?
13:10 is basically Microsoft Sam
Can this pedal provide phantom power to a condenser mic?
Can you let us hear the synth signal that goes in to the digitech talker? So I can have some help with setting one up.
As far as I recall it’s just a simple sawtooth. It’s the init patch on the P6.
Digitech is way better sounding.
Great Video dude!! I own a digitech talker myself but i am struggling with the right carrier sound. I use virtual instruments for that (routet into the talker from my line out of my ur 44 interface). Could you tell me the preset of the prophet? I would try to emulate that sound. Thanks in advance and cheers from germany!
Thanks - as far as I recall I used really simple sounds - pure sawtooth I think. Simpler sounds give more clarity. When using chords I think I used a minor 7th. Hope that helps - but it was quite a while ago I recorded it so I can’t be sure.
It seems to me that the Roland Boutique sounds just like all those REAL vocoders from 80's.
I mean, Eletric Light Orchestra, Kraftwerk and so on...
It is VERY smooth. I almost bought an original 350 but this is so good...
@@StarskyCarr Need you to compare the VP-03 with the B.VC340, please!?🙏🏼
@@kierenmoore3236unfortunately I’ve never tried the Behringer. Not something I thought I needed as I’ve got the Roland and not enough space 😮
Hi Starsky have you ever tried the Virus TI vocoder?
+crezrox hi, yes I’ve got a TI - should have included it in this really, but it was getting a bit cluttered in the studio. I’d put it on par with the MicroKorg. I don’t really use it as I find it a pain to set up mainly because I have to refer to the manual every time. If I used it more often it might be easier, but as I have other more easily used options I don’t need to use it.
Starsky Carr thank you for responding... do you have any videos on how to set up the virus vocoder?I've owned one for many years and I can't seem to get it to work properly. Cheers!
I’ve used the Virus vocoder, and it’s a pain to get up and running and just sounds okay.
Do you have any opinions on the Boss VO-1? I'm torn between that and the DigiTech.
Never used it sorry.
I thought the Microkorg only had 8 bands
+Synth & Sundry from the manual .... Vocoder section (Vocoder sec.)
This consists of two sets of 16 band-pass filters (ANALYSIS FILTER and SYNTHE- SIS FILTER) and the ENVELOPE FOLLOWER.
You’re right, the MicroKorg IS only an 8-Band Vocoder (the 16 filters are used in pairs).
The MS2000 models have a full 16-Band Vocoder (one of several differences most aren’t aware of …).
People who say the MS2000 and the MicroKorg are ‘the same’, are incorrect.
It depends.. digitech is great if you like a daft punk style.. but the roland vp-03 is great for choir sounds.
Synthesizer Patel, Synthesizer Patel, Synthesizer Patel, Synthesizer Patel, Synthesizer Patel!!!
ua-cam.com/video/z2myFLUDB74/v-deo.html
For the Digitech Talker, does the output sound depend on what synth or instrument is connected to it or can you just connect any instrument and it will give the same sound?
The sound you get out depends on what you put in. The video shows how it sounds with a simple sawtooth patch. As with any vocoder the sound depends on the input, but any synth can make a simple sawtooth which is why I demo with this sound.
@@StarskyCarr Ahhh, I see now. Thanks for your response!
Can't decide between the VP-03 and buying something like the EHX Voice Box (my first time buying a vocoder). The VP-03 would be less hassle since everything is there: vocoder, carrier, etc. But I'm wondering if the hassle is really much of a concern. The price would be about $130 more for the VP-03. I would get a real mic with either vocoder. Don't really care about the sequencer or the strings on the VP-03.
+deroden the only real plus points for the VP03 are the strings and voice sounds which are excellent. If you don’t want these or aren’t bothered by how well it reproduces vintage kit then it’s pros are limited. I agree that the sequencer is a bit of a useless add on (for me anyway). Your studio could probably do with the $130 elsewhere!
could you make a video on setup on the digitech i just bought one and i am having trouble. :/
+Raul Zavala hi, I'm not sure it needs a video - what's the problem?
When it's bypassed I can hear my voice come through on my interface but when I unbypass it and sing into my mic and play on the guitar at the same time only the guitar plays.
I'm not sure if its broken or what? I was using headphones as well I read somewhere that it doesn't work on headphones. But then I tried it over my amp and I can only hear the effects on the guitar. Super frustrating lol
Sounds odd. Check that you're using the correct output (amp or mixer), and that the mic is going into the left input when viewed from front. Also check the levels coming in are OK and try the different FX options. I remember when I first tried mine I was worried it wasn't working, but a bit of fiddling about with the settings did the trick.
Thanks, Starsky. Turns out it was my mic. Doesn't work with mics that require phantom power. SO I got an e835 from Senhnheiser.
Use a Mike stand and a nice conducer.the vp 3 even has phantom power
+Marc Pinion thanks Marc. I did consider that, but had so many leads and stands cluttering the studio that another would have been a safety hazard!! I think that's why I got so annoyed - just a couple more inches and it'd be perfect.
worket
Roland SVC-350?
+TheApnean I was lent one years ago and haven't found one as good since. They're so expensive now. I think the Digitech is as clear or clearer, and the VP03 has some of its warmth. If I found a cheap SVC350 I'd definitely buy it.
I used to have one, but traded it for a polysix...since I don't use vocoders much. Sounwise that one is the holy grail.
"haven't found good one as good", does that mean variability in devices, or lack of reasonable prices?
Jan Schultink I haven't found another vocoder option as good. I've not tried another SVC350. It's probably 15 years since I used one so these could be close, but I remember how easy it was to get intelligible warm sounds through it.
TheApnean 5939s
Its called a sock :P
Just saying that there is the Behringer which is better than all 3 of these and it comes with full size keys! Why wouldn't you have that as an option also?
It was released about a year after I made this. If I had time machine ..:)
The Digitech here is still a better vocoder … but I really like the strings (even the human voices) on the VC340. 👍🏼
Roland VP-03 sounds "the best" to me. Since they all sound very different, that will be very subjective. But there you go. If I was to buy one, that would be my decision, solely based on the sound.
Shame you didn't have a MiniAK too. Nice little 8 voice synth. Built like a tank, bit of a b/+ch to progamme but loox grwat too.
Oh yeah.. I've an Alesis Micron with a vocoder sitting unused in a corner. Can't remember ever using the vocoder.
Just use a better quality microphone plus a longer lead with the vp-03 and then this becomes the winner.
I agree. The only reason I went on about the mic was that it was such a shame the lead wasn’t a little larger - then it’d been perfect.. a cost cut too far?? I didn’t use another because the studio was getting perilous with so many leads, stands, cameras etc.. thanks for the comment.
Nope. Still not as good as the Digitech.
I can hear what your saying and hear your accent too.
Vp03 is very very intelligible. As close as it comes in hardware to the mighty svc350. Ensemble on or off on both. Sadly the synth input is missing on the vp03 unless you use a daw. That stinks but its internal sound does a very good job coming close. Using a external XLR mic is so much better then the crappy included consider mic
you forgot the best: Novation Mininova
Haha - didn't forget it - just don't have one to demo.
Digitech kills that one, too, sorry!
Wot? No RADIAS ?
+Laurence Vanhelsuwe unfortunately I don't have access to one. I wonder if it's close to the MicroKorg?
Wut?! He doesn’t have every vocoder, ever made?!?! Why the heck not?! The bloody nerve of this Starsky guy … !!!! 🙄😒 #CheekyMonkey 🐒
1. Digitech
2. Vp-03
3. Microkorg
4. Xils (ass vocoder tbh)
bruhh
Am I the only one that likes the Xils best? The digi sounds clear, but super sterile. Suppose if that’s what you want, it’s perfect. I just love the swampy vibe of the xils.
My impression is that the Roland and the xils sound like real analog vocoder and the others are much more modern.
Same here!
Xils resemble the muddy vocoder parts from the late 70:s/early 80:s where you have a hard time hearing what is said.
But (to my mind) that is the bloody point with a vocoder! If you are after a perfect voice then insert a superexpensive microphone into a good mic preamp and just sing with a harmoniser or something. That's what the superclean digi does, harmonising parts almost!
A vocoder has to sound dirty and a bit muddy!
I suspect all the people saying that the Digitech sounds best don't know what traditional vocoders actually sound like. It's way too clean, very little vocoder effect and too much unaffected vocal in the mix. The Roland sounds most authentic, and the Microkorg sounds good as well but with a different tonality. But the Digitech really doesn't sound like vocoder at all, which is probably why they named it a "Talker" rather than a Vocoder.
"These Daft Punk vocals are way too clean. I want my vocals to be unintelligible, so I'm throwing my Digitech in the bin and buying something that sounds 'authentic', but doesn't make hit records."
@@AutPen38 Haha, exactly. If you know, you know … … …