How To: Destroyer vs Radar - Shimakaze Kraken
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- Опубліковано 17 гру 2020
- Watch me live on Twitch: / potatoquality_
I've seen a lot of talk about how difficult destroyers are to play, especially vs radar. I'm here today to say that it isn't that difficult. All you need to do is play smart. Sure you won't win every game, but playing smart vs radar ships can lead to some amazing carries.
I'm Potato_Quality, a member of O7, and probably one of the best battleship players in this game. Hopefully, on this channel, I can teach you a bit about how battleships are played. Thanks for watching. - Ігри
For a person named potato quality, this is actually good! I learned a lot from this and I hope I could play better with the fletcher now! Subbed!
Cool gameplay as always. Keep up the good work. My clanmates and I were discussing the other night how much we enjoy your videos and general relaxed attitude about the game. :)
I really enjoyed this commentary. Subbed. I was actually just looking at your clans ratings and it blew me away. Guess I’m gonna binge watch some more of your videos to get an idea of better execution of certain ships
I love this IJN line! I can't tell you how many times an enemy dd underestimates my guns and pays the price
Which ships could you outgun? Asking since I can learn how to pick my fights, I have died sometimes to a Japanese DD in some strong gunboats.
Sometimes Yugumo can outgun a fletcher. I learned that the hard way
@@verhREQUIEM The only ships Shimakaze outguns is her predecessors so Yugumo and Kagero. You don't outgun anyone else, but you have high burst damage so if you can get one salvo and end the fight there, you come out above significantly. But everytime you have to shoot more than once, you'll lose unless you play better.
One thing about radar is that it usually completely blocks dds from capping. If your team can't cap on the other side of the map, then the points deficit can turn the game into a quick loss.
I like how u actualy destroyed Soviet Navy with Shima in this game :D-
Kinda how Russia performed vs IJN in real naval actions.
japan nayv never faced soviet navy, Imperial Russia did and lost.
great vid i learned a lot radar used to really piss me off esp. russian radar, but i now have a way to deal with it. thanks potato
Huh, whenever I’m radared I just pop smoke
Shit. I wish I'd thought of that!
Yeah it’s especially helpful on French and Pan EU dd’s
@@joshswanson4719 😂😂😂
sooo helpful lol
Instructions not clear, tried to activate smoke and instead started using defensive fire for an enemy spotter
This was a very enjoyable video to watch. You sure make it look easy!
Hey PQ, great and informative content as always! While watching the video I was wondering if you prepare a script or at least a list with some cues that you want to address in your videos because your commentary is always very fluent and pretty seemless?
another thing with the DD's in general that i've found works well for almost guaranteed torp hit every volley is to throw one set wide and one narrow, the narrow spread fits in between the gaps of the wide spread and leaves no space for anyone to turn into them to dodge. and they can't just out run the narrow spread or slow down either because at those distances the wide spread will catch those speeding up or slowing down thinking they're going to dodge. and yes most people don't realize how hard the IJN HE/IFHE hits, i see sooo many DD's that NEVER use their guns even when they're hard spotted by another DD, they turn and try to run away without ever firing a shot and just flat out die, then again if it's a French DD you're not getting away regardless lol nothing can escape that inevitable death even at 7km a full HP Des Moines is in a dangerous situation with the amount of torps you can throw at it as well as the fact that it only takes 9 seconds to drop 10 citadels and kill one at those ranges. Marceau is the only DD that i feel zero fear of any radar with simply because of how fast and maneuverable it is not to mention you can go toe to toe with a lot of cruisers.
doesnt make sense. Out of 5 torps in one salvo, there are 4 gaps, how do you cover all 4 gaps with 1 narrow salvo?
What i learned when i just started playing torp DDS is that that wide salvos are good on Shima with 20km torps, 3 wide salvos do significant damage when you are safely away form a large conjunction of enemy ships.
@@KronStaro because by about 5 or 6km the torp spread is wide enough in a standard narrow throw that about 90% of the cruisers with hydro can see them and turn in and dodge them. throwing one wide and one narrow covers those gaps enough that they're going to end up eating 1 or 2 instead of being able to completely dodging through the gap. it's not about whether or not the torps equally fill the gaps or not, it's just that they cover the holes and make it damn near impossible to everything but a DD that's already bow in to dodge everything. the more you use it the more you'll see it and understand. if you're not on the NA server than i dunno, i hear there's a lot of potatoes that just sail broadside and eat shit... the NA server has a lot of try hards that constantly have hydro over lapped and ALWAYS turn to dodge everything they can... so yea... there is a HUGE difference in play styles between the servers.
@@ToeCutter454 let me repeat it again, there are 4 gaps in a 5 torp salvo, how do you cover 4 gaps with a narrow salvo? if you send a narrow salvo right after a wide one, the most you will cover is 2 gaps, but then you are limiting your width range just to a half of that wide salvo because half of it will still have gaps, when with narrow salvos you can actually cover just as much width but with smaller spacing between torps.
@@KronStaro yea... you don't need to fucking repeat... you clearly are missing the entire fucking point. don't bother since you can't understand simple shit.
Well played, well described. I like the way you try to explain to people how to gunboat in the IJN line. I do it a lot and it works wonders. However you did not have either of a DDs real counters in this game. CV or competent DD players on the oposing team. Competent DDs usually lead to rewarding and fun gameplay. But the combo of CV and double 12km radar is just un fun, and you would likely not have done to much this game.
Very nicely done, excellent commentary
Genius at work! Great Job!
Very informative. Thank you!
Love your videos! Could you play the HMS Hood? What’s your thoughts on it? I feel like that ship is impossible
Great video! The legendary torp module for shima isn't really worth the grind though - at least to me it wasn't. It's almost stationary, meaning you'll always have to use your ship's rotation to aim your torp launchers and if you like to play an aggressive style, you won't be able to maneuver quickly enough anymore.
I'm glad you said about giving smoke to your team. When I play cruiser and sometimes with bb, I'll ask but they never want to share. Even if they see me getting shot by 5 ships, they don't care. A recent game, a Friesland did share but got detected soon after and died and I'm pretty sure he reported me, when I got back to port "you have been reported your karma decreases" since there wasn't any other reason I'm fairly sure it was him.
I don't play dd a lot but I'm always asking people to especially radar cruisers if they want smoke or if I see someone getting focused I'll drop for them. I just don't use it that much. Just wish people would do it for me in a cruiser when I really could use it.
i feel like you deserve way more views and likes under your videos, good luck with that! ;)
Can you do this video but how to play against cv?
Great vid, Thanks for this. Cheers!
I love my shima. It was the first dd/tech line I got to TX and it’s still my favourite
What did you do that was "Unsporting Conduct" ? Thankks for your videos.
Love it, keep doing it!!
Are there any additional tips or things you do different when playing gunboats like Harugumo?
Man... i would love to give you at least ten likes for this video. Even just for been more relaxed in future battles. Thanks for all the great content! I´m already following on twitch, just playing the game for 5 months now and the best hints are all, yes all, from pq1 :D THX!
I would like to see your Shima build and commander skills as part of a video like this along with what torps you are using, I’m assuming the 12 km range ones
Radio Location on shima is a must, even though he doesn't have it here. It allows you to avoid other dds from hunting you down and being able to flee when needed, or to launch torps at them before you spot them, especially at first caps that are being contested, you can just launch torps in the cap where you're radio location is pointing.
What is your shima captain build with upgrades? if you don’t mind sharing 😃
This video helped a lot. Ive had a lot of games where there are a couple cruisers with radar and I just have to stay at the edge of their radar range. I don't get a bunch of dmg tho so idk if I'm really contributing.
The thing about radar is that it has a limit to it's spotting capability: Limited range (7 km on the T7 cruisers that have it, 8 or so km on the T8s and 9s iirc, 10 km for the US cruisers (I think British cruisers too but don't quote me on that), 12 km on the Soviets), short-ish duration (anywhere from 30 seconds to a minute and a half or so), and a cooldown.
Compare to CVs, which can spot anywhere on the map, can basically fly over anything with impunity, and can have planes where they last were, either after a strike or getting shot down, usually within 30 seconds, with no hope of deplaning them unless they're really bad. And that's not even touching the strikes they will get off.
Radar is far more balanced than CVs.
Mino is 10km, mosk stalin nevsky is 48 with mod, petro is 12 with mod. No one has a radar longer than 48 seconds even with mod.
@@Wh1tesammy The RU CL's, Moskva, and Stalin have long range but medium duration radar. At T10 they have 36 s duration with the mod. Remember that radar duration increases with tier. At T8 the Chapayev has ~20 s without the mod IIRC. They are all 12 km range.
The RU CA line has long range but short duration. Petro radar is also 12 km range, but 18 s duration with the mod. The RU CA line is the only line that doesn't have duration that scales with tier! It's still 18 s duration with the T8 Tallinn.
US and UK cruisers have the same radar duration, but remember these durations increase with tier. At T10, DM, Mino, and Wooster have 48 s radar with the mod, with DM and Mino at 10 km range and Wooster at 9 km range. At T8 the Balti, Edin, and Cleve have 30 s radars (without the mod) but they have the same ranges as their T10 counterparts.
Most DDs have an air concealment of ~3 km, planes have 9 km concealment. You can estimate if the CV finds you, you can angle your ship or pop smoke if not. No such counter play against a 10 km radar behind an island or stealth radar, you're simply dead if you get focused/unlucky. Your only hope is your own CV spots the radar CAs on your side of the map beforehand.
I like CVs on my team when I play gunboat DD, they scout if I can pop smoke without radar threat and they provide spotting while my sniping BBs hiding at A1 and spam "need intelligent data."
Great video. Could you make a guide about how to actually use torps effectively? I am mostly a BB player starting to get into DDs and I struggle to actually hit anything with my torps other than in a yolo
get as close as possible, ussually within 7 to 13km on 12km torps, and send them at enemy ships showing broad side, usually when they are rushing towards something. also getting behind enemy lines and shooting ships parked behind islands in a group.
Is is the yumi zoom mod that makes it so you actually have that sexy PoV when tracking your radars through C/Z? And what % is it, the same as in the mod video? (the second to the top)
Edit: oh, you are zooming out from them? Had no idea you could zoom from the tracking, TIL
@Potato Quality how do u have a cross on the map where ur precisely aiming on ur minimap if its a mod can u tell me which 1 please
What unique upgrades are leaving soon? Where do we find out more? Why are they being phased out?
I adapted since the release of Radar, which dropped right when I was getting my first Tier VII DDs. One think I still don't like about it though is the ability to see around islands.
What mod allows you to 'zoom out' when spectating torps?
he has a video about mods he runs
How are you getting the "Drone"view of your torps?
I know to press "z" but I only get a water level view when I do this.
VERY interested to see the Shima with the Legendary. Harugumo too (it reads like it is rolling smoke, Haida style. Can this be true? HUGE.).
Leg mod Harugumo basically gives it USN smoke, not Haida smoke
hi, how do you get the small X into the minimap (shows you where you aim), is there a speciall minimap-mod? Thx for our short answer and pls provide us with more of our nice Vids
Aslain modes have got one
Check Potato Qualities Video on recommended mods. He explains the whole process.
What's your build on this? I am surprised you aren't running RPF. You go for EM?
RPF is kinda bad in randoms and it serves absolutely no purpose on a spotting/kiting DD like Shima
With some experience in the game, you know where radar ships are usually positionning and their kind of radar. Then you know where their range limits are. Going backward in a cap. Let the ennemy use his radar:
Leave few hundred meters and come back when radar is finished.
Or Play with forward/backward to dodge if not too much ennemy.
When a radar pop, go backward instead of full forward, lots of players will overshot on their first shot. Then forward 1/4 or half. Then backward.
This moves make you an much more difficult target to hit.
are your videos true 1440? i can hardly read ship names (on the mini map especially) sometimes and other tuberz i watch in 1080 its clear as
1. Always count the radar cruisers at the beginning
2. Use mod to time the cooldown
3. Keep counting how many time they used it
Other good points in the video (guns of Shima), but this was my main take.
How did you change what torpedo you were spectating?
5:01 How could you zoom out that far? :o
5:13 Potato, isn't that the gimmick of the IJN torpedo-boat line? Hard hitting torps?
Ik, it's what makes it fun. More than something like Pan Euro
Yes, and they're balanced by having pretty bad torpedo concealment. This means it's much harder to land torpedoes on an enemy DD or nimble cruiser.
Even a good battleship player Can dodge them. They are just sooo bad.
The torps aren't as bad as people say they are. You can't fire bow on first off. Always look for an angle
@@siegfriedasbjorn7259 Maybe it's not the torps that are bad.
Can I ask what mod for your ribbons is? Tyvm
Add a CV and this all means nothing
CVs have an inherent ability to screw up any strategy or tactics players can up with.
@@JohnSmith-ux3tt the big issue is that CVs where made with the intent to obliterate surface ships, their mobile airfields, the concept itself really has no place in this game, this is coming from someone who avgs 63WR solo and 83% in divs in a cv, even when they had options to create something to at least limit their actions like reward spotting instead of dmg or create the options for CV to CV interactions, they bailed on some of that functions since the 8.0 update with the CV rework
YEAR OF THE CV
*Decade
hey, Is this build effective in cv game?
Whenever i see a radar cruiser i *try* to stay outside its radar range and tell people to bugger of when they want me to rush forward
As a DD main, I think stealth radar isn't any more "cheap" than torpedoes are. Stealth radar gives about a 1km in-radar zone which is less than most most torpedoes can be seen.
Granted, torps move slower than shells, but part of being a DD is thinking where the radar cruiser will go or where he'll move from last spot. There aren't many ships that can actually stealth radar. So, you don't see it every match. And if it's a UK cruiser, he gives up a lot of survival ability to bring radar.
Smoke /hydro and smoke /radar is also "cheap" but, again, you don't see it every match.
I'm not great, but I recently had a fun ranked match where my team was spamming "get back" because I was apparently Yolo'ing a cap with a radar CA. I had better spotting than both their DD and one was near the other cap. Sure enough the CA hit radar when he was spotted. Ya, it lit me, but I had an island to duck behind.
What my team didn't realize was that I was hoping the unspotted DD would come after me while radar had me lit. That would give me a 1 v1 and keep it away from my fearful teammates.
The DD didn't show up, but once the radar ran out, I just stepped out from behind the island and my now emboldened team were happy to blap the radar CA that I was able to spot without fear who relied on his radar to keep him safe.
Very interessting
Nice. Reinforces a lot of what Kuro teaches, but there's always room for a different voice with a different teaching style who fought a different battle with different lessons to learn.
What kind of World of Warships Mod is that? Seeing the Healthpoints from every ship together lol?!
How do you zoom out on your torpedoes?
You should change your name to Mr. Clean because this performance was spotless
Its hard to play dd bc of cv, radar, long range hydro and very high dpm ships. You are spotted constantly by cv/radar/hydro and your aa is useless so once that happens the high dpm ships/cv wreck you.
So use Halland ^^ more powerfull AA than most cruisers...
Of the ones you've listed, only CVs are a real problem. Everything else you can play around, partly because you can see them coming. Planes can come at you almost without warning, and catch you out at the worst possible moment.
What a nice game and what a beautiful experience when there is no CV to ruin everything
I like to be that cv that ruins everything since I couldn't count how many times I was having a good brawl and a dd ruined everything for me. I don't particularly like cv play, I just do it as revenge kind of.
What is the mod list you use?
My favourite DD is Yugumo with TRB since ive gotten really good at dodging radar and CV even without smoke, even when i play Shima, i seldom use smoke, i use it as bait against Radar Ships, or give Mino or other CL smoke for him to farm other ships because he has more dpm than me alone, of my 628 games in Yugumo with TRB, ive only been sunk 37 times.
I got into a game where we have 3x Shimakaze and 20km torps. The Torpedo screen is do damn good we won the game without even breaking a sweat.
1 year late to see this video, but as a player who unlocked the the shima as my first T10 i thank you for it.
I just wanna say 2 things:
I really hate radar when playing dd because I like to push in order to remove as much "dodging time" as possible for the enemy. But I wouldn't have it removed. Gotta be some counter to dds, right? ;-P
And I also love to use shimakazes guns, they do hit hard regardless of build ^^
In Randoms I agree with you, but in competitive the limited number of ships and the resulting short battles with tons of radarships allows them, if coordinated correctly, to basically radar for the entire battle, which is pure cancer especially since they're most likely in a blob with 90% pf their team.
great game play. Now show us a Shimmy game with Radar and a Good CV opponent.
Mornin
just small mstake: torps to torpedo protection belt can be healed by 10% not 0
i use mainly my smokes on all my DDs to try "bail out" bad plays on my team.
Did I sub to you before and my sub got removed, or am I hallucinating?
man I went for the wrong line I wanted to go for actual DD gameplay not a mini cruiser with good conceal (harugumo line).
What about CV? I can deal with radar just fine, usually hide behind islands or just kite away. When there is a CV there and you get radared, you are DEAD. No DD can hold their own against a CV's planes since you are usually ahead of your team to spot. Not only that, CV makes you push out of your defensive position since torpedo bombers exist, as well as being a sitting duck to the HE bombs and easy food for the rocket planes.
Please please PLEASE do a radar and CV game in a DD.
smoke.
This is all good and neat but you know what, sometimes CVs just show up and ruin your day.
I see one big problem with this, it is NOT normal to get support from your team in random games upon spotting enemy ships.
dds are good at stopping pushes... well good thing that nowadays nobody pushes xD
Run a ship with 10k torps and add a cv in the mix and then come back and tell use you don't know why people dislike radar.
On rewatch: "My team should get C, with how many people are there..." It's surprising and disheartening to see how often they don't, and the green ships can be seen on the minimap apparently frozen in time on the redshifted surface of an event horizon. For the whole game until you lose on points.
16:03 ... the shima has deepwater torps, so you will never hit a dd
Are you being sarcastic or what? The IJN lines don't have deepwater torpedoes, that's asashio and the pan asian line.
Shimmy's guns are good, just slow. History: look up Japanese Long Lance torps. They really were that good.
Until CVs are neutered DDs are pretty well non factors
Is that how its done is that rite ? 11 torps found there target 😏👍
Can discuss he spam meta now
I also loved DDs especially Shimakaze, but CVs ruined too many games. I have quit the game until they change CV spotting to minimap-only.
Sorry, I like the high damage with the Shima tops, because it's pretty much all you have. You are out gunned by almost everything. So, torp runs is the "Catch of The Day".
Also, I think radar is a bit over rated. A dd can easily evade one ship shooting, only focused fire works. I was thinking a radar ship, when using radar, should get improved dispersion. It would make sense too while using radar your ship is more accurate. Unless your a DM, mino or Worcester, you only get 2 maybe 3 salvos off and it's really frustrating when rng screws you on those shots.
Now imagine playing gun focused DD that is supposed to fight close combat for the caps in combination with US radar crusiers which tend to hide behind islands and radar you for 40+ seconds through them. Also the majority of DDs do not have 12+km torps. Playing e.g. Ligthning or french DDs against T10 radars on a smaller map than this is completely different experience. You have comfortably chosen one of the few DDs which can avoid radars on a huge map that lets you manouver freely to dodge and turn. But real WoWs world is much more different than this.
Its sounds like to me your personality may be better suited towards playing DDs that are torp focused. I don't mean anything negative by comment either. Have you tried the Frenchie line of DDs? They are little more forgiving due to their speed and special armor. Current win rate in Mogador is 60.53%, Fantasque 56.52%, Vaquelin 60% and Marceau 55.88%.
@@tonestar00 I play WoWs since closed beta back in 2015 so I have tried them all including premiums and reward ships :) I enjoy Marceau a lot, Mogador and Kleber kinda suffer from CVs but you are right in a way that these ships are not affected much by radars. Cant say the same about british and US DDs that were always my favourite as they tend to fight close combat in caps. Thats why I think this kind of nonsense about "radars being fine" is just not generally true. Trying to prove otherwise by showcasing one game in ideal circumstances is simply not convincing. Most DDs have shorter gun/torpedo range than radar ranges these days. Lets see how the statement holds playing e.g. Lightning or Lo Yang on a smaller map in T10 matchmaking. Add in a carrier and DD life becomes insufferable. Especially the ability to radar through islands is beyond stupid as you often cant even see/anticipate enemy ship radaring you.
@@Houmer Well, keep in mind PQ is a BB main, and many of his opinions are colored by that. I mainly respect his opinion but "radar is fine" is only half true. Yes, you can pretty successfully play around radar, but there were only 2 in this game. The number of radar ships WG has added into the game is way too high, and I regularly see 3-4 radars in a match, which becomes much harder to deal with. Also, matchmaking still doesn't balance the number of radar ships per match, so your team can have 0 radars while the enemy has 4.
TL;DR: It's not that radar is bad, it's just the number of radars per game and the imbalance between teams.
@@KarthikVishwamitra I fully agree. Even maps come to question as on some of them one 12km radar can cover two caps if placed between. So often you get radared "by accident" or get "sandwiched" between multiple radars with no option to avoid them at all. Cooldowns can be also improved in a way that´s nearly impossible to run from first radar and cap in time before second one hits you from the same ship. Not to mention stealth radar ships like Belfasts or close to stealth radar ships like Petro. Radar mechanic would be fine but needs some serious tweaking to be balanced. The whole concept of magic button involving no skill to use it is the same cancer to the game as carriers where there is no risk of losing the ship contrary to all other ship classes.
@@Houmer You might be a closed beta veteran, but your comments about radar tell me that you're the kind of guy with 15,000 battles that barely manages to get a "good" rating on wows-numbers. In fact, you're even hiding your stats on that side, why is that the case I wonder? Every unicum player and above will tell you that radar is fine cause it needs to be strong under certain circumstances because a correctly (!) played DD is so powerful in this game that radar often is your only chance to apply damage to an excellent DD player.
radar seeing through islands is dumb, just as the sonar. Has no risk, only gain.
Also DD is the class that if you have lots of potato BB you cant flip the match.
What is the build? You don't run Concealment expert? Really?
Radar is not the problem, CVs are...
The combination is strong too, CV spots you so radar cruisers can have a better sense of when to radar besides just detect -> pop radar
X-RAY radar is so broken. Everything else is fine just fix it’s ability to see through a million tons of rock!
I like you videos but I think this is one of the weakest you've done in regards to positioning and playing around the enemy's advantages. The basics and mechanics are there but the lack of a competent opponent to showcase how important it is to play certain ways isn't imo. T10 MM with no CV and only 2 radars is a sight more rare than a WG balance decision that the community agrees with.
This honestly needed to be 4-5 radar cruisers and maybe a CV where you juggled your health and aggressiveness to both dodge drops and radars while also putting pressure with torps.
In this video you open water gunboated against a mosk and stalin that couldn't hit you from 10km and horrendously mismanaged their radars, while their dds just let you torp their team in a Shima without concealment lol. It's absurd how many things fell perfectly to showcase what playing a Shima looked like 5 years ago.
Basically, just saying you can't say it this easy when you literally got perfect MM for a Shima.
True. This mm is rare af and mostly cv just focus you till you die. I am a dd main and its frustrating to play this line especially with this meta
@@kshitijmadhwal9148 do not worry CVs are getting buffed...
Shut up...lets see you do better .............
Would you believe that there are people who argue that radar is harder to deal with than CVs as a DD?
Where's the counter to CV play? Oh, there is none and by the way there are now more CV games than non-CV games. Good thing they did the rework. I used to play the CV's before rework, and few people liked them, 1 in 10 games was a CV match, now 3 out of 5 games are CV's. Well, at least they're making more money, right?
Yeah radar is not really deadly, its the CV.
你的对手太年轻太单纯
I am not a good DD player but I agree: if you know who has radar and what his range is, it just stops being deadly.
My way of dealing with it is less sophisticated than potatos: stay outside its range or, if in range, keep some cover at hand. Get radar'ed, drive in cover, laugh at CA or CL for wasting his consumable. Ez.
BTW for the noobs: there is a complete list of Radar ships in the WOWs wiki. I have it open in every match to look up stuff.
While radar can be very strong in the right situation, anyone who thinks it is OP is not very good at the game.
Is this still relevant?
Japanese torpedos in ww2 were considerer the best of the world in 1945. Even better than the germans and americans.
In other words......if there is radar just camp....
Fail!
PQ why are you pink?...
Like he said at the end of this video, it was the first game of the day. The night before, he was playing BBs, and in the last game, he was playing a conqueror. The friendly shima in that game was trash and doing nothing, and PQ was super tilted, so he shot him.