$559 each in 2021? I just got a pair for $599 each in 2023. Amazing that they only came up by 9% in 2 years. Way to go, Rhythmik! So happy I chose them.
My main speakers (for music exclusively) is a pair of Elac Unifi FS towers. They go down to around 42 Hz per specs. It's good enough for maybe 80-90% of the music I listen to. But when I listen to Telarc CDs a good subwoofer helps a lot in improving the overall sound not just the bass. An SVS SB1000 did wonders. The match was seamless to my ears A year later I tried the Rythmic L12 and removed the SVS. Now the system integration is even better after carefully matching the level, phase and crossover setting. It is like the subwoofer driver and the woofer drivers are of the same DNA!
I had the same experience with my SB3000 and then changing to REL, to my ears the SVS sub was perfect for over a year but then the extra detail of the REL was something i couldn't resist. I'm really wanting to try the Rythmik F12SE now :D
Luv my little Speedwoofer....it's next to my HSU VTF 15 MK2'S. The Speedwoofer for are for finesse tight as a drum for music, and the HSU's are for "giving me internal injuries while being thrown around in my theater". Great honest review on the Rythmik!
Went to the Rythmik shop near Austin recently and talked to Brian. The build quality and bracing of the enclosures is impressive. Even their cheaper class D amplifiers use toroidal transformers which is pretty special. The drivers are built specifically for Rythmik, the cast frames are legit. Brian is the real deal.
Hello, I just subscribed to your channel. I discovered it after doing a search for the Rythmik L12's. I like your style of unpretentious reviews. Very down to earth. I have been a long time audiophile (1972) but always on a budget. I have been a long time B&W (early 90's) fan. I currently have a modest 5.2.4 system in a small 10x10x9 room. Denon 6400H 11 channel receiver, Emotiva T1 towers, C1 center channel, and E1's for height and surround speakers. Plus 2-Rythmik L12's. I have one on the inside of the right tower, and the second 1/2 way between my listening position and the front speakers on the left side wall. Rythmik suggested that placement to eliminate any null areas. I am a fanatic for musical accuracy and I think the Rythmiks integrate with the Emotivas very well. For movies the twin L12's give tight chest pounding bass. For music, I now primarily listen to Tidal. The Denon is now capable of broadcasting MQA. At first not, but after a firmware update it is. I will be adding an Emotiva XPA 3-Gen 3 amp for LCR. Sound quality should tighten up as the Emotiva speakers are 4 ohms and very power hungry. Following the 70% rule, I figure the receiver at best is only pushing 95w/channel. Sorry for the long soliloquy. Good job with your reviews. Keep it up.
Hey Ichiban, welcome aboard my friend! Your system is made up of two brands that make great gear!! Rythmik and Emo are fantastic!! Your room is almost identical to mine except I'm 10x12 with 9ft ceilings. One of my home theater friends is selling a few amps if you're interested email me nemopropaganda@gmail.com and I'll connect you guys together. He has an outlaw 5000 and a couple others I can't remember, he's one of those guys that likes to play around with gear so he's always buying & selling ya know :)
You cover the basics, the specs and you give a well-informed, unbiased opinion. You are becoming one of the best reviewers on UA-cam IMHO. Keep it up. I am considering a new subwoofer and so I'm absorbing all of the information I can prior to a decision.
Hey Wynn, thank you for the kind words! That means a lot to me. Feel free to ask any questions, you can also email me if you like using the email listed in my about section.
@@NemoPropaganda I have yet to see anyone review the Focal SUB UTOPIA EM COLOUR EVO Subwoofer? At $20,000 I would be very curious to hear how that sounds!!!!!
@@OCleirigh1776 honestly bro Focal doesn't fuck with me, all 3 Focal reviews I've done (chora, aria, kanta) I've bought the speakers with my own money. I'm not revieweing Focal anymore because I feel they don't have any respect for smaller content creators. The irony is I'm obviously also a customer but they don't seem to care.
Thumbs up. Nice video. I'm a huge fan of multisub and as I build out systems I noticed the priority of my criteria for powered subwoofers changes. For single sub 1) Output 2) F3 and F6 3) Flat response 25 to 95 Hz 4) Price 5) Size 6) Finish, build quality and weight For dual subs that order changes to 1) Price 2) Flat response 25 to 95 Hz 3) F3 and F6 4) Size 5) Output 6) Finish, build quality and weight I was waiting for you to expound on how the servo feature of this sub made it sound/perform differently.
Hey Jeff, I try not to get too technical on this channel so I purposely didn't get into the servo tech, plus people can read all about it on their website. In super laymen terms though it's going to allow for flatter FR and boost overall efficiency so your wattage goes a little further. How much further is anyone's guess though...
Go ahead keep it subjective. Too many reviewers just cop out with (it depends on your taste, etc). Take this angle and run with it. It could be your differentiator.
I've been looking at higher end Rythmik, SVS ($1500), and REL ($2400) subs for music, with secondary duty for LTE. Thanks for your review. I'm finding it difficult to tease out the advantages and disadvantages of REL and Rythmik's different approaches, and your direct comparisons of comparable products from the three companies is helpful.
If you have a $2400 budget the REL S/812 is on sale right now for $2599. Part of the reason REL cost more straight up comes down to the looks, fit, and finish. All 3 companies will give you big bass quantity, how it's delivered is slightly different. SVS brings that initial slam and room pressurization that makes you go "wow!", Rythmik gives you a little more low freq extension from a similar sized cabinet and slightly better bass detail and articulation, while REL brings transient speed to the table as well as better bass detail and articulation like Rythmik. Essentially REL is the quicker, Rythmik plays deeper. None of these companies make bad subwoofers but i will say any sub that uses a DSP will integrate better in a HT environment where the processor can correct timing and delay whereas in a music only system the more passive approach (rel) is easier to integrate by ear.
You should totally get one to start, they're great! I had a chance to review the pair but i was lazy and didn't want to haul 2 subwoofers home lol. I will do a video on dual subs one day though :)
Can confirm. I was pretty surprised going from sb1000pros, much deeper, cleaner, louder if want, musical. Exactly what i was looking for. Have them paired with heco 700's and love the combo
This is the best sub in budget area 600 or less subwoofer it’s small but mighty I have a pair of them myself every time there’s a movie or explosion in a movie I feel like a earthquake is going on I just hear and feel bass but I can’t locate it with music it’s fast and accurate like it should be it’s the best of both worlds after about a month the subs sounded deeper and louder after break
Hi there. Just watched the video and wanted to thank you for the great work. Short and sweet to the point :) I just wanted to mention this model also comes in white, which is not common on every model. Cheers
Sounds like the choice for me - I don’t play loudly - I want a musical sub, not a HT boom box - the low price and small size equal high WAF - the sealed design should provide good articulation with no overhang - the light paper cone should start and stop quickly despite not having a megawatt amp - the servo control should improve speed even more. All good!
I'm running out of subwoofers lol, Hsu Research and Starke Sound are local, it's time i start begging for samples lol. I am also considering buying a Rythmik F12SE for myself but also considering the FVX12.... ahhhh, like most of you guys i too suffer from indecision :(
I am considering the L12. Mostly interested in tight, clean base at lower volumes. Do you still like and recommend it- or any others? RSL is coming out (April) with an all new 12" Speedwoofer. It comes with a nice remote control for about the same price.
it doesn't matter, most people with a music system are running ported speakers with a sealed subwoofer. If your subwoofer has slope adjustment you want to pick 24dB, if it doesn't just adjust frequency, gain, phase and that's it.
Another subwoofer review, great:) Because you asked about alternatives, a first thought would be the jamo 660, which has comparable specs and price (I think)
The Jamo 660 is discontinued :( looks like they mainly focus on super budget subs now. I’m eager to get back to reviewing speakers but nothing is really catching my eye. Granted i still need to do the Focal Chora 806.
@@trufnk I just got the matching stands for them, hope to have the review up in a few weeks. They're good speakers and have a very unique presentation, very very very open and airy sounding. I think some people will love them and some people will hate them :D
I was planning to get 2 Monolith 10s, but you've answered some questions for me, in terms of bass articulation vs impact. I'm leaning towards servos now.
I don't think they even make the 10s anymore, it looks like only the ported models are for sale now anyway. Either way the Rythmik L12 at $569 is the golden child in my opinion at this price point.
I reviewed the Rythmik FVX12 already if that helps :) ua-cam.com/video/_rDxNytOg_g/v-deo.html I've also reviewed the F12 and L22 so I'm not sure if I will review the LV12R also but I've reviewed enough Rythmik subwoofers to tell you this: they are damn good!
actually found the latest recommendation for subwoofer. so the question is, would you pair this with wharfedale diamond 220? my use is primarily music. mostly dance music - house, disco etc. thanks!
Hi Aditya, yes absolutely, this is my favorite sub in this price range and I listen to EDM also so I know it's a good match for that kind of music too!
Another great review Nemo! This is on my short list but I really wish they made a smaller version suitable for smaller rooms. Do you have an opinion how the B&W ASW608 would compare with the Kef Kube 8b and the Rel Ht/1003? Mostly music.
A commenter that owns the REL 1003 said my REL 12005 was inline with his own experience owning the 1003 just with slightly less as you would expect from a smaller sub. I've never heard the Kef Kube 8b (i've had my eye on it though). The B&W sound is closer to the Rythmik sound. The REL HT is a tighter sound with speed being it's primary focus. The B&W and Rythmik sound is still quick but more so in a way that is natural and melodic. Both are very pleasing to my ears as both sounds offer up very good levels of detail and articulation. The Rythmik will integrate just a touch better in music only systems with it's 12db slope whereas the REL HT series uses an 18db slope as it's intended use is HT. With all that said i think if you like the ASW608 your natural progression would be the Rythmik L12.
@@NemoPropaganda Thanks that's really helpful. I need a small but high quality sub for a future desktop set up for music in a tiny home office. I'll keep my eyes open for a possible Kef Kube review if you ever get your hands on one. I did notice the B&W is about 12 years old now. Any chance they'll upgrade it in the near future? Thanks again for a great channel.
@@NemoPropaganda I am purchasing the F12’s also and opted for the F12G. Was also considering the Rel t9i and SVS SB-3000 but think the Rythmik combines the best of both of those. Very much looking forward to your review.
@@nwestmoreland1 Nice dude! I went with the metal cone simply for the look, I LOVE IT!!! I can't wait for my review too lol, I still don't know what I'm going to say besides "it's good". The T9i is a totally different kind of subwoofer and very misunderstood, I need to do a video on that one day but it's actually designed to make a speaker sound full range while still using another sub dedicated to LFE effects like the REL S/812.
T5i will take the edge in sound quality overall, integration, and dynamics. Rythmik L12 will take the edge in extension, deep bass, and maximum output while still having very good sound quality and integration, just not as good as the T5i. I would make the decision based on room size. Bigger room, get the L12 pair, smaller room go for the T5i pair.
Great review! Everything you said echoes what I mentioned in my short review as well. I have a pair of these and a pair of FVX15s as well. All of Rythmik's subs are superb and deliver deep, crisp, articulate bass. I have sound demos of them on my channel if interested in hearing them.
Hey bro, I've actually seen your vids :D I almost grabbed a FVX15 that was for sale locally but decided against it due to the size, I think it's more of a "wow" subwoofer but most people can't accommodate the size. My room is only 12x10x9 :(
@@NemoPropaganda Hahaa, that's what's up 😊. Yeah the FVX15s are massive and the output is nothing short of stunning - especially with a pair of them. The articulation that they have to be large, ported subs is unbelievable. They're just as accurate as my smaller, sealed L12s. The four of them together is mind-blowing - not just big bass that you can feel through your body, but the tightness and precision of how bass is supposed to be heard, and with high distribution having a sub on each corner of the room. Gotta love it. I currently have them all reeled in to 84db so it's not too crazy.
@@PolkFan dear god, you remind me of my one of my buddies, he has an identical layout but with SVS instead, dual PB16 up front with dual SB3000 in the rear. You HT guys make me jealous with how much rumble you have :D. I have this sick idea of grabbing a pair of FVX12's just to mess around with when i want that ported sound. I know a lot of audiophiles hate ported subs and I'll agree they're not the most accurate but it's like driving a fast car that only goes straight, it still puts a damn smile on my face!
@@NemoPropaganda 😁That sounds pretty badass. I highly recommend going for those FVX12s. Trust me when I tell you, Rythmik ported subs are not like typical ported subs. Being that they're direct -servo subs they're far more accurate than your typical ported sub with a fat amp attached to it. Rythmik's ported subs are just as fast and accurate as any sealed sub. And the bonus is that you get that thick room-filling bass that ported subs are known for. The price is right; the sound is definitely right, nothing to lose.
@@PolkFan Nothing to lose but my money lol, I just can't justify it, I just got the dual F12SE a few days ago... Maybe next year i will, but so far in my little room these bad boys are putting down some serious LFE!! I'm really happy with them.
I'm 68 years old and, sadly, have hearing loss over 3khz. (Hearing aids all sound like plastic crap! Worse than a ceramic phono cartridge!) That means quite of bit of the nuances of the music are lost; air, imaging, sound stage, etc. BUT, I can still hear the bass just fine! I'm in a small condo with 2 separate systems. I was used to regular cone type speakers and still have a small collection of ADS speakers, and a pair of SARAS ST200s! The stereo room (approx 9 or 10'x12'x8') is carpeted and has room treatments. I'm currently using Magnepan MMGs and, at first, one Velodyne F1500 Servo subwoofer, then two of them to help with dispersion. (I still have an old ULD15 Servo in the closet, unused for 15 or so years.) I was never able to achieve good integration in such a small room. SPL was not a problem. The subs were barely set on maybe "2." I bought the F1500 simply because it reached lower with less effort than the F1200 at that time, 25 years ago. These were hooked up to the high level inputs, but I could run RCAs if need be. I think it would be 20'. Another 20' for the high pass RETURN back to the amp! Is that too long?? I listen to mostly jazz, bluegrass and other acoustic music. Of course I have some awesome TELARC recordings that have some very low bass on them. Also a collection of direct-to-disc LPs. I recently needed a new subwoofer in the living room for the HT setup, so I moved one of the F1500s down there. (Approx 16'x31'x11') The old M&K MX100/1000 amp failed and the surround was rotting. That system is not really "high-end" and no carpet or room treatments. 90% Netflix or DVDs. I found a location for the sub that worked great in the HT setup! It worked great for about 2 days! That's when the foam surround blew out! I figured it was worth having that fixed, so I pulled all 3 15" woofers out of their respective cabinets and took them in for re-foaming. I also took the F1500 amps in for serving. Both were working, but one had a slight hiss, and the other one made a "motorboat" sound for a second as the speaker circuit kicked in. One was fixable, the other "no parts available" but still working. The ULD amp is not making any unusual sounds. The question remains as to whether I keep the Velodynes after having them repaired and use them until they break, or SELL them all while they still work! I was thinking that if I sell the Velodynes and start over, I would still like to have the bass extension of the F1500 for the stereo room, BUT be able to integrate with the Maggies. And the HT is such a large area (living room, dining room, kitchen, hallway), I doubt something smaller than a 15" driver would easily pressurize the room. And this is with a current volume setting of only "2." The F1500 is 250 watts. I would consider a ported speaker in the HT setup, but not necessarily prefer it. I'm in a small condo, remember? Perhaps new technology would allow a 12" driver to work as good or better than the old F1500 Servo? I'm retired on a fixed income. Using 2 subs in the same small stereo room didn't work before, but those subs really only had volume and low pass adjustments. No phase control, etc. No room for 2 subs in the HT. Therefore, I would only be buying 2 subs, one for each application. Rythmik L12 or F12? REL HT1205? HSU VTF-2 or 3? ULS-15? Something else? I respect your advise. Thanks!
I havn't heard Hsu subs but in order it's like this L12, then HT1205, then F12 in terms of performance with the F12 at the top of course. If you need the extension of a ported sub but can't fit the typically large cabinet 2 small options are the RSL Speedwoofer and KEF KC62, a pair of either has serious output and extension for the size while maintaining good SQ for the money.
@@NemoPropaganda Thanks for the quick reply! From what I read, the L12 does not have a HPF that I would need for the Maggies. The F12 at nearly twice the price does have them as an option. My concern would be essentially running 40' of RCA cables to the sub and back to the amp. They both seem to have high level inputs, but no high level outputs. I can fit a single 15" sub in the HT setup. The F1500 is there now. Could I realistically expect a modern 12" sub to perform as well as an older 15" sub, or it still a case of "size matters?" (I'm temporarily using an older Klipsch KSW10 in the HT while the F1500s are being serviced. It "maxes out" on some sound effects.)
@@anonmus3485 mmm, that's partly a better question for Rythmik (regarding all the cabling) but yes most modern subs will outperform older units but you might prefer the sound of your older sub. So technically better isn't always better.
Hi, I bought an L12 courtesy of this review. My question is, what are the signs of overexcursion? I'm afraid to push the subwoofer when the driver starts visibly moving (maybe half an inch outwards?). I'm mostly concerned for HT (Interstellar, BR2049, also using Low HT) but I don't play loud for music.
I don't know the xmax spec of that particular driver but generally speaking around an inch or so peak to peak is absolutely within the normal range of movement for a good subwoofer driver, don't worry about how much the cone moves, it's a sealed sub, the cone is gonna move a lot. You have it set to low HT so you have a subsonic filter at 20hz, the sub will for the most part protect itself. You'll know you're overdriving it because it'll slap, literally making a slap/crack sound. If the sub is making that noise it's too small for the room but you can mediate that by changing the switch to HT High, that will make the limiter more aggressive. The L12 is a great sub but still very small so you will find the limit if you really push it with crazy stuff like the edge of tomorrow intro but the HT Low rumble filter should still protect it for the most part. Ultimately, just enjoy the darn thing, it's designed to move, woofers are happy when they're woofing, let'er rip and enjoy!
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I love my B&W Asw608. It has made my other subs unlistenable, quite honestly. I typically listen at the high 60db region. The 608 is perfect for that. But I like to turn it up to the low 80’s if I really want to jam. The 608 just can’t quite keep up at those volumes. The SVS SB1000, the REL HT and the Emotiva SE12 subs were the.only options that I could think of. I was not convinced of SVS’s tonal accuracy. I was not convinced the REL or the Emotiva could dig as low. This sub checks every box I was looking for!
Hey Matt, yeah the asw608 digs incredibly deep at lower volumes, it's one of those things that's hard to explain to people that haven't heard it so I'm glad you appreciate that aspect. The Emotiva SE12 definitely can't get as low & deep as this. The REL doesn't either but gives you a touch more speed & tightness in exchange. Bass can't really be incredibly deep, tight, and fast at the same time though. If it's really tight & quick it won't be that deep, if it's crazy deep it can't be that fast, so it's a balancing of those traits that matters but personal taste is also a HUGE factor of course. For my taste this sub has a good balance of those attributes but if someone wants the deepest bass they should go for a ported option, if they want the tightest bass, REL brings that, if they want SPL SVS delivers that in spades so it's weird that bass is such a narrow band of the frequency but personal taste is such a big factor here. I think that's something a lot of people don't account for when choosing a subwoofer.
@thatguy Ah the 10d, yeah that thing is a serious thumper!! The 8D is going to be similar honestly but a little more polite at lower volumes and have more of a kick instead of a thump if that makes sense, the BW ASW608 only has low volume performance do to its limited power so it's going to be one of the best subs at lower volumes but the Rythmik L12 is still my SQ pick in the 500 ish dollar price range. Unless you have a space constraint the L12 is the way. Also thank you for the compliments sir, i appreciate it.
@thatguy ah yes, i know that feeling well, I've gone through many subwoofers until i found what i was looking for. I once had an older Veloydne SPL 8. It kicked out so much bass it walked all over the floor but all the bass sounded the same regardless of the actual frequency, it was just a hilarious rumbling mess and that thing was a $900 sub when new.
Great Review. Subscribed. I look for accurate & fast bass. For 50% Music and 50% Small Home Theatre; what would you recommend ?? Rythmik L12 or SVS SB1000 Pro ??
L12 for sure, SB-1000 is very good but much smaller so L12 will extend lower and add more weight to the sound overall. L12 is more comparable to SB2000 due to its size.
Good reviews! It would be good to see a frequency response graph of each subwoofer. I realise it doesn't tell the full story, but I think it helps. They are difficult to find for a lot of subwoofers! Also, the lip sync is a bit out on your video - production quality is great apart from that though.
They have a graph on their website :).... Subwoofer reviews are already pretty hard on my back, I'm usually rather sore at the end of it from all the getting up, bending over, moving it around, etc... i don't think i can add more work to it lol, honestly i noticed the minor sync issues too but only when i watch on my laptop, if i watch my own videos on my phone or my TV there is no sync issues so i think it's the web browser causing some issues as it seems to be isolated to me using my laptop. Just curious would you mind watching the video on your phone and let me know if it still has sync issues?
@@NemoPropaganda Aha, great that they’re so confident they can show on their site, I’ll have a look. I do get lip sync issues on the UA-cam app on iPhone 7. I didn’t try in safari UA-cam yet.
Interesting that you did not cover the servo technology that gives Rythmik such an edge. I own a pair of F15HP and am very happy with them for music and then HT which is secondary for me
At the price of $569 I felt the average consumer would be less interested in the technical side of things and more interested in it's overall performance. I plan to review the F12SE soon and may talk about it just a little in that video. Personally I don't get too into the tech side of things, every company has something that they claim makes them different like REL high level inputs, Focal's proprietary cone material, KEF's Meta damping absorbtion, Klipschs taxtrix horn, etc... I don't care about the tech necessarily, i care about how it performs in the real world so that's what i focus on. Hope that answers your question :)
Rythmik L12 or Rel HT/1205? I need it for music first and movies second. I was set on Rel but now I'm torn. Also the 20 pound difference in weight makes me assume that this is constructed to a higher standard. Thank you all:)
I like both subwoofers a lot so you can't go wrong either way but you are correct, the L12 is a good bit more robust in it's overall build and that clearly shows in it's weight despite both units being nearly identical in size. In this specific comparison the L12 gets my vote, it's cheaper, extends lower, and built to a higher standard. This is one of those examples where going MFG direct gets you more bang for your buck.
@@edwinsprojects7039 Hell yeah dude, congrats!!!! Be patient with setup, sometimes its quick but sometimes it can take a lot of trial and error to get it really dialed in.
I like a lot your channel very honest. Still looking for a small subwoofer to go with my kef ls50 active...I bought a cheap 12" subwoofer (400w) 10 years ago it was awful, I sent it back. I'm looking for something small and clean.
buy both rel and this. so all the weakness is cross compensated. haha...that would solve the problem of choosing either one. btw , between this and rel HT 1205..which one would u own, if u only got the chance to choose one only.
Well I already own the HT-1205 and the Rythmik F12SE so I think you kind of have to believe me when I say I like both brands equally. Ideally I'd like to own a pair of REL Carbon Specials :D If I was forced to chose I would flip a coin :)
@@NemoPropaganda I think i would choose REL since you say its the same in sound quality, but REL takes the lead in the cosmetics...there is nothing better than showing off with all the money spent...:)
@@bryansu exactly, that's why i bought the F12SE for my Rythmik sub, i wanted the shiny gloss black & metal cone :D. But really either sub is seriously fantastic! The budget category is really competitive these days which is good for us consumers.
What settings were you using? A high Q 14 hz extension is going to sound different than low Q 28hz extension. I prefer low Q 28 extension. It gives all the punch!!
Would you mind looking into the Velodyne impact 10 (which I already have) and tell me ur thoughts if the L12 would be a real upgrade worth buying? It’s for a small room and music only.
So my question is would this subwoofer work well for rebassed / decaf music or would you recommend a ported subwoofers for deep bass? Also I would chose sq over spl
Rythmik is obsessed with having strong output at 20hz and below so this subwoofer will do just fine. Will their ported FVX12 be even better? Hell yeah it will be and you'll still have killer SQ... You sound like a basshead that still appreciates SQ, the FVX12 is the one for you if it's in your budget, if not the L12 is still very good. Oh shit you're FBI? *grabs bug out bag*
I want to pair my small Dynaudio towers with dual subs. My options are this or dual t5x from rel. the spec sheet absolutely destroyed the rels. Im purely using it for 2 channel music.
It just depends how much bass you want and how big your room is. The L12 certainly does extend lower than even a pair of T5X. If you're listening to a lot of EDM for example you may be better served by the L12 pair. But if your room is very small the L12 pair may be overkill and the T5X may be the better choice.
@@NemoPropaganda room is an open living room combined with a kitchen in a condo. I would estimate around 500-600 square feet. But I can’t play my music super load because of disturbing neighbors.
great great review!! your "wife acceptance factor" comment is priceless! loved it! i also could not marry for the same reasons, but if i were, you're right... i wouldn't care either. i did buy the B&W ASW608 after your recommendation. i love it!! ...so musical! but feel it could go to a second music room that's less spacious. maybe for my living room music heaven this is the one to go with... right?
Tonally they won’t be identical as they’re made by different companies but they are similar sounding for sure. The B&W is a little more punchy sounding which is common for an 8” and the L12 is more linear & accurate but to my ears the L12 is like a big brother to the asw608. Similar, better, but not identical.
@@themastroiannis thank you sir for staying with this channel. I’m happy the 608 worked well for you. A lot of people seemed to really love that sub as long as they understood it’s limitations.
Randy @cheapaudioman referred me to your channel- big fan so far! New to using a subwoofer with my stereo. Since I’ve never had a sub I’m only looking for sound quality as any added bass will surely be appreciated. Small to medium sized room use- music consideration mostly, however I listen to enough kinds of music that maybe some HT/effects consideration makes sense. System ~$3000 in separates, nothing fancy but everything decent/pretty resolving. $US500-700 budget this go-around, no size/looks or connection restraints. Looking at Rel T/5x (is it big enough?) Rythmik L12 (how close is it to Rel quality sound?) or maybe even two Emotiva SE8s for more even room filling. SVS I’m not sure about. Appreciate any advice or other suggestions- thanks!
oh cool, I love Randy like a fat kid loves cake :D. The L12 is absolutely phenomenal with respect to everything an excellent subwoofer should do and ranks extremely high on the SQ side while still delivering outstanding extension & spl capability. I ranked it best product of 2020 and I really meant it :). If you're in the USA and $500-$700 is your range to spend you simply cannot do better. While I love the T5X I think it performs best in pairs due to it's small size and limited headroom and a pair pushes is out of budget a good bit so we're back to the L12. My advice here is fairly straight forward, buy the L12 and never look back.
@@NemoPropaganda Awesome thanks! I may still go in that direction but 2022 is changing fast, and so is the budget. At around $1100 I was thinking the Rel T7x, but I’m curious how it compares with the 1205 output-wise. I get they are wildly different, but if for example I get 10% better SQ from the T7x but 50% less SPL for HT- I may want to go with the 1205 and save $300. I guess my question, which could be outright dumb to ask is, SQ aside- for HT and SQL what would you compare the T7x to fairly? Maybe something in the $600 range like sealed SVS 1000pro with slam at that level? I get an SVS sub at $1100 will level my entire home. Basically I just don’t want $400 subs made for HT outclassing my T7x in HT. Regardless what the T7x is made for. If that makes sense.
F12SE is coming next :D I don't think I will do the FV25HP, it's way too big for my room but that's a tough sub to beat for a HT setup, I think you should just go for it, from what I've heard from their other subs I think it will not disappoint.
Hey Nemo! Great review as always! I know this review was done awhile ago, but wondered if you had some thoughts on my application. I have an old school DJ setup, with Technics 1200's. I spin mostly House, but I also play Jazz, old school Funk and also will be streaming Quobuzz for Jazz and Electronica. So I am varied. I was almost setup to pull the trigger on some REL T/7x's but I always had something from Rythmik in the back of my mind. I believe the main speakers I have go down to 50 Hz. It almost seems like I would be throwing money away for the REL's if they only go down to 37 Hz, when even an L12 (Please don't tempt me with an F12...!) can go down to 17 Hz! The Rythmik's seem like a no brainer. Am I missing something? Thanks!
thank's Alan, feel free to join the Discord if you want to chat more: discord.gg/pNtZkqh8 it's free. The short answer to your question is Rythmik offers tremendous value for US customers that is difficult to beat.
Hi Nemo. I currently have BIC F12's(yeah I know) I am looking to upgrade. And until today it was between REL T/5x or Rythmik F12. Now I read about the B&W ASW 608. The 608's can be found much cheaper. Would the 608's be a good upgrade over the BIC f12?
Hi Lisa, they are both about equal in that regard though some may feel the L12 is a little easier to dial in since it gives you a real phase control where REL gives you a polarity switch but personally in my first hand experience both subs were incredibly easy to setup and integrated perfectly. As far as clarity they are both excellent but the slightly larger L12 (being a 12") will be able to play louder and extend deeper.
As always great info! So I have been enjoying the 2 Rythmik F18's for both music and movies. I want to add two more subs to fill in for the F18's mostly with movie effects but ill take any added benefit with music. I don't think my goal requires the F12 and was thinking about adding two L12's. The customer service and Brian are great. There is another sub ive seen positive reviews on which is comparable at this price point and has 900 peak/450 RMS. Any experience with Starke SW12?
Hey thanks John! Starke is not a brand I would recommend nor cover for various reasons. While this video is a bit old I have reviewed many subwoofers since and my original assessment remains. At it's price there is nothing better than the L12 and it's a true hidden gem for US customers. I suggest you hop in the free discord (link is in newer videos) as there is a user in there also running dual F18 with a ton of subwoofer experience who also owned a pair of L12, F12, G25, KEF KC62, KEF KF92, SVS PB16, SVS SB3000, and many more subs, you might enjoy getting his opinion on what your trying to accomplish :).
@@NemoPropaganda as always thanks for your opinion. I like the brand and enjoy my F18's. The L12's will be delivered Thursday. Theres not a lot of youtube reviews on it. I did watch your review and the EOY value recommended video of it. I think this will complete the entire system upgrade. Before I bought the F18's I must have watched your Rythmik reviews and @sparechange F18 review a dozen times minimum. Only a slight increase in price 599 each if you buy 2 and with the crazy pricing and your positive reviews i felt it was a deal. Looking forward to hearing what dual F18's and dual L12's can do. Now ive got to master REW and minidsp2x4.
@@johngentry5885 I've heard dual F18 in a theater and it was amazing, I'm sure your systems gonna be awesome. Of course setup will take some time having so much bass :)
@@demonreturns4336 they are quite punchy and get pretty low. Even though the wattage is low they have a nice presence and they blend well. They are a great value at the price point. I don't think other subs at the price can really compare. Im sold on the brand and really enjoy the dual F18's and L12's. Im thinking of moving the L12's to a side firing position of seating and I have the F18's in the rear, then add some 15's from Rythmik up front.
What's up Daniel! Sooo the Polk PSW110 often goes on sale for $99, it's not a good subwoofer really but it's as good as you can get for 99 bucks :) Dayton also has an 10" sub for $119 and a 8" for $99, not the best but again about as good as you can do for the money www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-SUB-1000-10-100-Watt-Powered-Subwoofer-300-628
@@NemoPropaganda that dayton does look interesting, Looking for something to pair with a set of Dayton Audio B652-AIRs Im thinking about getting, once that tax return actually comes in anyway. I was thinking about pairing the B652s with this cheap kit thing www.aliexpress.com/item/32812347668.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.70d23c00KWQVyj&mp=1
@@danielauen7790 I don't know much about DIY but if you have the skills that could be cool!! If you're in the USA I have a 100wx2 Lepai Class D amp that I don't use anymore, It's yours it you want it, hell I'll even cover the shipping :)
@@NemoPropaganda That is extremely generous, But I would like to decline the offer, the reason I chose that kit is because Ive built a few similar things and enjoy putting them together, its kinda cheap, even if I need to find a power supply somewhere, and I can set it on my desk to act as a headphone amplifier as well. It should be pretty simple to put together if you want to try some soldering. Never know, might be a fun project to try. I have a couple big tube amps in the garage that need rebuilt, an almost twin set of 6l6 push pull amps, somewhere around 30 watts each, I dont have a schematic for them, but I do plan on getting them rebuilt at somepoint, a shop I found quoted me about $200 for the job, Im kinda curious as to what they will sound like, or even if the B652-AIRs Im planning on getting would mesh well with them, or if I should find a nice pair of floor speakers on craigslist to pair with them.
@@danielauen7790 I'm a lot of things kind of guy but DIY isn't one of them, I'd sooner change the clutch on a 1995 honda civic before I pickup a soldering iron. I have pretty bad tendonitis in my hands and arms so small & precise movements like soldering or writing with a pen get painful really quickly :(... Other than that I probably would enjoy the hell out of it, but it's not a hobby I can have so I sold all my soldering gear a few years back. Even video games get painful, shit even responding to comments too much somtimes cramps me up but I have a text to speech program so that helps. It's a weird injury to have but it seems everyone's got something lol.
Is this subwoofer magnetically shielded by any chance? Looking for a CRT-safe subwoofer to pair with a front pair and centre from Ascend Acoustics - thanks!
Next Rythmik subs will be the E15HP2 and then the G22 when that's back in stock, the F18 is a little too heavy for me but my friend has a pair and I've heard them a few times. If you're a subscriber I post updates in the community section and we have a free discord also where i post updates about upcoming vids. Discord Link: discord.gg/3PkFQf4y6Z
Could use a little help. I'm running a Yamaha TSR 7810, Monitor Audio speakers, and an old Infinity BU-2 sub that needs to be replaced. My use is 80% HT. I'm trying to decide between the Speedwoofer 10S MKII, HT/1003, SB-1000 Pro, MKII, Rythmic L12, and HT/1205 MKII. The sub must be located behind my gear/flat screen setup in a corner which is a tight space so I can't go larger than the HT/1205 (preferably a little smaller). Leaning toward the 10S and L12. Would rather spend less but willing to spend more if it's worthwhile. Thanks.
Did you manage to get a Speedwoofer? I’m selling my black RSLs for a pair of white ones but am considering getting these instead. I only care about SQ. Not output.
Yes, Speedwoofer landed very recently (3 days ago). I can't comment on a comparison yet but wow I am impressed by the speedwoofer. It's ability to extend low while also providing tactile bass is a rare combination.
@@NemoPropaganda awesome. Let me know if you have an ETA on the review. I just shipped mine out and am going to go for another pair (white), some L12s, or HT1205. I’ll be waiting on your review before I pull the trigger! No pressure tho. 😜
Hi Nemo, excellent channel and unbiased. Can you do a review on an Earthquake mini me 12-dsp subwoofer? I would like to know your opinion on that one in particular. Keep up the greatwork.
Thank you for the kind words. I will not review that sub for a few reasons. It looks like a total ripoff and here is why I say that: $1400 for a subwoofer that does not publish RMS wattage nor frequency response is simply a bad deal. They say it has 600w max power so that's maybe 300w RMS, for $1400? That's crazy expensive, additionally they say it goes down to 18hz but do not specify if that is -3db or -6db and that's because the real spec at 18hz is nearly -20db! To rate this sub at 18hz is such a gross exaggeration and deceptive that I consider this disrespectful to the audio community. Based on it's false specs and deceptive marketing I would strong advise you do not buy this subwoofer. If you like the features that this has consider the SVS SB-2000pro instead, it has nearly double the power, an honest +-3db 19hz extension, and is from a far more reputable company.
@@NemoPropaganda It's only 9.5 x 15 x 8. I had a bigger room before, but we moved. If I had to do it again, I would probably go with two 15"s to save on floor space in a small room. Two F12se, that's sweet!
@@elongatuspiranha ah yes... moving really can throw a wrench in things. I had the SVS PC-2000 before in a bigger room, same story, i moved and suddenly that huge cylinder was just a bit too big for the new smaller room which is what started the hunt for a new smaller subwoofer.
I have one and I like it and I'm sure I don't have it set up right and I'm also sure I am not eager to learn everything there is to learn about how to set one of these things up. I want to hook it up turn it on and listen to it. I think having it properly tuned maybe more art than science not sure also sounds like it may just be a lot of try this and try that I wish it wasn't so I'd like to just say two plus two equals four done.
I hear ya Mike, all that matters is that it sounds good to you though! You can experiment with the settings though but unfortunately great sound as you have suggested is more art and lots of trial and error with a ton of personal taste :)
I'm looking for a computer/desk subwoofer for music and gaming. I've been demoing a REL HT/1003 for a week and it sounds great, but the L12 is only marginally more expensive and will still fit in the placement areas I have (HT/1205 will not). Is it worth going for the L12 over the HT/1003 for music and gaming? Placement is very challenging which will make it more difficult to get the most out of either option.
So the L12 in an open room vs the 1003, well the L12 is much larger so it will have more SPL & extension capability and it sounds like you're super tight on space. If you already have the 1003 and it sounds great I'd just keep that. The larger L12 should offer more performance but it might not since you have unique placement. Either way both subs are good, if it's under the desk I'd stick with the 1003, if it's not under the desk maybe flip a coin 😁
@@NemoPropaganda I kind of YOLO sent it and ordered an L12 this morning anyway. I suppose I'll find out through trial and error if that was a good choice, and I'll be able to compare them both side by side and see if I can make the L12 sound good with the limited placement options I have - Fortunately I have more than a single placement option.
@@Bikeanon ahahaha I love that! So it should be really easy for you, the L12 is really easy to setup so it should immediately sound much stronger, if not the placement is killing it.
@@NemoPropaganda My first impressions of the L12 are very promising. One thing I noticed, however, is in some very quick progression bass situations, the L12 seems to be a little lethargic compared to the HT/1003 - I wonder if this is something that might get better with break-in, or if this is something the F12 is better at than the L12 - More power, more rigid cone, etc.
@@Bikeanon by direct comparison the servo tech does seem to real in the initial attack & slam just a little bit, if its a huge difference it could be a phase issue. Also don't be scared to use the frequency knob more than usual. With Rythmik subs sometimes I blend as high as 60hz while most other brands i keep it under 50hz and many times even 40hz. What I recommend is fight the urge to go back and fourth. Play the L12 for 1 week before going back to the 1003, that will give you more time to pickup on the more nuanced differences. That's a trick i discovered running this channel. Quick A/B comparisons only reveal the "wow" aspects of each product and aren't always the best representation of what it's like to live with the product. Either way enjoy the ride and thanks for the update!
I have not heard maggies in my room but my understanding is most maggie owners prefer the F12. The L12 is very good but it has a warmer sound, it's transeints are amazing but the warmer sound may give the perception that it's not as quick while the F12 is more technical, more articulate, tighter bass, etc... So not only is its transient response even better but it sounds quicker too. Speed and the perception of speed are 2 different things. The F12 is the one for you or possibly the FM8. I suggest you reach out to Rythmik to be 100% sure as they have more experience with maggies than I do.
@@NemoPropaganda , I rarely watch youtube reviews since I've gotten tired of watching some very bad presentations but yours was excellent. I ended up watching your F12 review right after I purchased the L12 and now have a little buyer's remorse...haha. Do you review bookshelf speakers? I've been on the fence about the Meta Ls50's for many months. They just went on sale for $ 1299 and now have an itchy trigger finger.
@@Roeldls Yes, I reviewed it here :) ua-cam.com/video/GMgGFjzR2AM/v-deo.html I like the LS50 meta sound a lot but I don't like the look. As far as the F12SE well it is about 2x the price compared to L12 so unless you want to spend that much more I wouldn't worry about it.
@Nemo Propaganda Reviews thoughts on KEF KC62 vs Rythmik L12? I have KEF LS50 but may get Buchardt S400 mkii or other speakers. KEF KC62 seems like a perfect fit for LS50, but wondering about other options like Rythmik, in terms of quality bass, integration of bass, and performance for music 1st, movies 2nd.
Both are really good in those metrics, the L12 will have more articulate midbass like between 50-80hz and be better suited to louder listening or bigger rooms as its much larger. The KC62 is all about amazing bass in a tiny package so most of the money you pay is for the size. If you want a tiny sub the kc62 is insanely good but if you don't have any space restrictions the larger L12 will save you a lot of money while performing just as well.
You should get a HSU in for review... specifically the ULS-15 MK2 fantastic its sub, fast musical while also able to shake the whole house for movies. I dont think theres a better sub anywhere near its price point at $800. Punches well above its price point, you would probably have to get a SVS SB4000 or higher to match or exceed it. I would love to see a head to head of the REL Predator 1508 vs the HSU ULS-15 MK2, they are very similar subs in terms of characteristics specs and peoples descriptions of them.
@@NemoPropaganda I heard they are bad with email responses sometimes... maybe try giving them a call! I had an issue with one of my drivers once and got right through right away and talked to Dr. HSU himself. Customer service is top notch resolved my issue right away.
@@NemoPropaganda awesome, thanks for the response! I think you will completely blown away for its price point. I love music and movies equally this sub was perfect for it! HSU needs to step up their social media game though, they are mainly word of mouth right now. I think a lot of people would pick them over other more popular brands if they knew about them haha.
@@Paranimal86 Agreed..just look at all of the reviews here on UA-cam....it's the SVS killer! More tactile feel and also great for music. The 15h MK2 plays like a $2000 and over sub at least but sells for half the price!
@@NemoPropaganda I actually just changed my order. The JBL 550p went up for 189. They seem to be more what I'm looking for. Same amount of power a little bit smaller and look nicer. It's a 12-inch ported versus a 10 inch sealed. But the JBL goes 2hz lower then Infinity. Even though it's smaller it weighs 10 lb more. People seem to really like that series of JBL so hopefully I made the right choice with 2 of the jbl.
It has both L&R inputs so you can use single RCA if or dual. So like if your sub output is a single out no problem or if you only have pre-out LR then you would use both.
@@NemoPropaganda Apologies for the multiple comments, but I'm using an 851N preamp which doesn't have subouts, I connected a y splitter to the available digital output, and the LFE cable to y splitter is not producing any sound.
@@ArthaxtaDaVince777 You cannot use a digital output for a subwoofer my friend. You have to either use the RCA line output or if that is already being used you should be able to use XLR to RCA cables and use the "balanced out" connectors as long as both outputs are constant on and not switched.
@@NemoPropaganda Man, I'm really in a bind. I have the y splitter connected to the digital output, the single RCA didn't work and I have ordered another double RCA on the way. Is there any way to connect my L12 to this stupid preamp (851N).
Definitely not my friend. Articulation is essentially detail so if we look at speakers for example and I say the Focal Chora 806 has more detail than the Elac DBR-62 how would I quantify that claim? I can clearly hear the difference but how does one quantify it? And furthermore that more detail doesn't make one speaker better than the other, in fact i prefer the Elac over the Focal Chora so personal taste plays a big factor. If you like more quantifying check out the written review from erins audio corner, he has a lot of measuring equipment and really dives deep into the objective side of things whereas I'm just a guy with an opinion, his review is for the F12G www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/rythmik-f12g-direct-servo-subwoofer/
Great review! I just started getting into hi-fi audio, and am looking for a sub that will round out the low end that is lacking in my really nice bookshelf speakers (100% music on this system). Since I'm new to this hobby and my system was a gift, I'm looking for the best VALUE in sub that I can find. Had been sort of debating SVS SB-1000 vs. the extra cash for a REL. Think you sold me on this most likely being the answer.
@@NemoPropaganda Stirling LS3/5a v3's. Running them with a Spectral DMC-10 preamp and a Transcendent tube amp. [Edit, after a bit or research] - Apparently the LS3/5a have a reputation for being difficult to pair with subs. Having the quickest sub possible seems to be the key thing. What I've seen favors a lighter paper cone over metal. That has me looking at the L12, F12G, or FM8. I've got cash for a $1000 sub, but would really like to stay
@@cameronlloyd9752 okay that makes it easy, quickest sub? REL, it's really that simple. I love Rythmik, their bass is deeper than REL but REL is quicker/tighter. You can't have both in the same design so one is not better than other for these reasons you just have to pick the one you need which happens to be REL in this situation. As long as you don't need earth shattering sub 25hz performance the T series is going to match up well. I'd grab a T7i but this T5i is at a great price second hand: www.usaudiomart.com/details/649706684-rel-t5i/ and well under budget given the situation. You can always upgrade later but at this price it'll give you a taste and possibly might be enough.
@@NemoPropaganda Thanks! As much as the depth of 20hz would be nice, that is lower importance than blending with these speakers and keeping what they do well. I'm also listening to vinyl frequently, and I know the bass isn't going super deep on that. Mostly... when I'm listening to Miles Davis or Led Zeppelin, I know the bass player isn't meant to be that far in the background, and I want to correct that. I'm very intrigued by the idea of the Rythmik FM8. Wondering how quick those 8" paper drivers would be compared to a REL T7/i
@@cameronlloyd9752 that's hard to say since I've never heard that model but I'm curious too now lol. On paper it looks like it should be pretty damn good for what your goals are and Rythmik does offer an in home trial though it's a bit north of what you had hoped to spend. I say pull the trigger and find out, half of the fun in this hobby is rolling the dice in my opinion and just satisfying our curiosity :).
oh man that's tough one, I havn't heard the FVX12 yet, I plan to order one soon though. I have on the other hand heard the PB-2000 (non pro version) and actually owned the PC-2000 for about 1 year. The ported 2000 series subs are capable of serious output. If you want maximum output at volume the PB-2000 pro should be more than capable. As I have not heard the FVX12 I cannot comment on it but it does have 150w less but promises better articulation vs the competition.
@@NemoPropaganda Thanks for the info and the reviews you do. The reason I am looking at the metal cone is for the articulation. Don't care too much about the power. The reason for the SVS is the trail and returns. Don't have that with anyone else. Just not a lot of reviews and demo's of the FVX.
Thank you for the kind words. Rythmik also offers an in home trial :). The PC2000 i had was not very articulate nor was the PB-2000. The sb-2000 was more articulate but the Rythmik L12 was more articulate still. I would guess the FVX12 would be more articulate than the PB2000 based on my experience with both companies products so far but that’s really just a guess.
Would anyone have an opinion on how this compares to the SVS SB-1000 Pro? My eventual choice will be for a 3.1 setup for gaming, home theater, and music. I feel like SVS's smartphone application, company rep, and reviews sell it for me, but since I am new to this and really have no experience with subwoofers I figured I'd ask.
both are great subwoofers from great companies but it really is this simple. The L12 is a bigger subwoofer overall so it's going to extend a little lower and the servo tech will give it better midbass. The SVS will be a little cheaper, smaller, and packed with more features. I would pick the SVS for 1 main reason though, the cell phone app lets you save 3 different custom profiles so you can save 1 for music, 1 for gaming, and 1 for theater so you'll always have it sounding it's best without having to fuck around with adjustments for 20 minutes when you want to play a game instead of listen to music. I love both subs but in a mixed system like yours the convenience of the 3 user definable profiles is a quality of life feature thats going to make the entire system more enjoyable :D
Great videos! Is there a way to setup 2-3 subs with each one being for different purpose? Music/movie/game? I like what SVS did with profiles but I don’t love their subs enough.
Hi Nemo! My L12 developed a low electrical buzz coming from the back of it. I have unplugged everything from my equipment and the L12. I still have this noise with only the L12 plugged in. any idea what it could be? thanks
Usually it's the homes electrical but I doubt that's changed recently so most likely something in the plate amp has failed or is starting to fail or fall out of spec. Reach out to Rythmik, even if you are out of warranty this is one product that is worth every penny so even if you have to pay for a new plate amp I think it's worth it.
Yeah I was thinking that might be it also. I don't hear it when I'm listening to music though, thats how subtle it is. I called and texted them this morning but no response back yet. I wonder if I could replace the plate amp if they sent me one. the cost to send me one and shipping there and back would be costly. funny thing they don't show the plate amp on their website, mine is the model HX310
@@johnharris1846 oh my bro if you can't hear it from the listening position I'd just leave it as is. It's not uncommon for there to be some hum from amplifiers when you get up close to them. Dirty AC is usually the cause and Emotiva sells a product called the CMX2+ that can fix that but unless you can hear it from the listening position I wouldn't worry about it.
@@johnharris1846 that's not usually how it's done. The plate amp is usually replaced by the end user and company simply sends you a new plate amplifier.
@@nearestone hop in the free discord, give us more information, budget, room size, intended use, etc... and we'll help you out the best we can. discord.gg/nemopropaganda
Not sure why sensitivity isn't taken into consideration when you're mentioning "louder because it handles higher RMS." That isn't often the case if you have a lower sensitivity speaker. If you have a 88db 1w/1m speaker with only 250wRMS it'll play as loud in its range as an 85db 1w/1m speaker with 500wRMS. Maybe you could address that in your reviews too?
Sometimes I talk about sensitivity, sometimes I don't, this video is over 1 year old so I don't remember what I said exactly but I did go on to crown that badboy best product of 2020 and it is a subwoofer I continue to recommend constantly to this day. The main reason I don't cover sensitivity in most of my videos is I don't know the sensitivity of the driver nor it's t/s parameters, nor how the cabinet itself affects all that. Your example only takes the driver into consideration but that same sensitive driver in a cabinet that's too small will actually not play as loud as the less sensitive driver in the ideal cabinet so driver sensitivity on it's own is not the final nor only determining factor. As you can see it gets fairly complex fairly quickly and we haven't even talked about ported boxes yet or if the plate amplifier has a beefy output stage capable of delivering high current during peaks, etc... I simply can't cover everything. I do my best to give provide easy to understand product info and that means I can't cover all tech aspects. Hope this answers your question.
@@NemoPropaganda perfect answer. And yes, with so many tech aspects to cover I imagine it was difficult to narrow it down to the ones you've elected. This was my intro video to your content. It was enjoyable. Thanks for a great reply. You obviously care. It's refreshing. Maybe someday I'll finally be able to pick up some servo woofers (what brought me here) and hear what all the buzz is about. Can't wait. :)
@@Bugglebub honestly thank you, I really do put a lot of effort into responding to all the comments. Since this is your first foray into my work a few things you might want to know: this isn't your typical YT audio channel, I buy a lot of the gear in order to review it, I'm not trying to have this replace my job so I have no financial interest here, though it would be cool if the channel could break even one day, generally I only review products that I'm personally interested in, and lastly if you jump to my Ares2 video that's most likely the way I'll be reviewing gear going forward. Oh double lastly we have a discord server if you want to hang out and shoot the shit with other audio guys discord.gg/dmphfHjv
If extension down to 20hz is important to you then grab the L12, if your music doesn't get that low and you want a smaller sub with killer sound quality grab the T5X.
You've never done a wharfedale diamond review. I made a few short videos on my channel of my new diamond 12.0 which I will be using for nearfield listening on my desk. I think I might go for dual rel t5x.
@@scottroberts4551 It's okay if you have a preference for one brand over the other however both brands have the same goal and accomplish it very well. They take slightly different approaches with slightly different results but both are world class sound quality subwoofers. To refer to REL as "standard" is a very unfair statement.
I’d rather not as that varies from room to room so it would really just cause more confusion but if you need any help with setup Rythmik is very responsive and very helpful in that regard :). I would offer to help you myself but i no longer have the L12 in my possession as it was on loan from a friend :)
Off brands have Peerless XLS 10” sealed as a stereo pair with miniDSP and Hypex nCore it’s Awesome tight bass Want to try a hideaway sub don’t like the looks of these boxes
@@NemoPropaganda No, I have yet to purchase a system. I've just been watching a lot videos and what I've learned so far is that high level input from the speaker output of your amp is a superior way to do it as the sub is receiving the same signal as the speakers.
Not true at all. Highly circulated misinformation. That statement is only true for REL subwoofers as they are designed that way. Most expensive subs don’t even have high level inputs as they are generally not as good.
Absolutely, it's still a 12" sub and a very capable one. How much bass is enough is also a very personal question. You might find the single L12 more than adequate. Only one way to find out :)
@@NemoPropaganda Thank you for the response! Got another noob question. I have an IOTAVX. Since I’m not able to set the crossover on the amp, am I not getting the most out of my speakers since my speakers are still trying to reproduce some of the same lower frequencies the sub is? I’ve heard it’s always best if I can free up speakers from doing too much. Not sure if that made sense.
@@Jpanic4 if you have really shitty speakers then yeah removing some of the bass will help them play louder without distortion. I am familiar with this theory but I don't really believe in it. While it sounds more clear at first it also sounds pretty thin and now you are asking the subwoofer to play more midbass which is not really it's job. Let your speakers play full range, integrate the sub around their natural roll off, that's the best setup in my experience.
@@NemoPropaganda haha understood! Have a pair of BRO3 currently. So hopefully it works well with the L12. Last question! I hope.. This might be more subjective but do you know why there aren’t as many reviews for the L12 out there relative to REL, SVS etc? Is it just a matter of marketing?
@@Jpanic4 The answer is actually very simple, Rythmik is not known for sending review samples to reviewers. Generally if you want a Rythmik subwoofer (even for review) you buy it. Even Shane of the YT channel Sparechange with 70k subscribers paid full price for the pair of F18 that he reviewed. If your next question is why, the answer to that is I don't know for sure but my guess is they are happy with the current size and growth path of the company and there is nothing wrong with that :).
Ported vs sealed is a red herring if you ask me, and driver size isn't as important as cabinet size, notwithstanding obvious differences (18" vs 8"). All I care about is output at a given frequency and you spend money to make it sound good. I'm absolutely cross-shopping the Speedwoofer and this L12, seems this is smaller but more expensive. From what I can surmise they'll have similar CEA output capability and then I'll DSP/tune/room placement for the rest.
It's hard to be sure, I haven't heard the speedwoofer yet but they keep selling out and they don't have any returned units to even send me for review so they must be good enough :)
would Love to have your take on subs like the Cambridge Minx X301 or the Q Acoustics QB12...both are supposedly very good for music too...and similar price to the Rythmik L12. have you had the chance to listen to one or the other?
The Minx has a -6db point of 31hz and the QB12 doesn't specify db so I'll assume it's -6 also of 28hz. That's not low enough of a frequency response to have my interest based on the type of music i listen to so i probably won't check them out personally and i don't think either company would send me a review unit because I'm a tiny channel :) On Paper the Rythmik L12 is in another league compared to these two options. I will admit the QB12 is rather beautiful though.
@@NemoPropaganda hey! thanks much for your response. was very curious as the B&W ASW608 doesn't go that low either, but you like it so much. anyway, your answer is pretty conclusive. it will have to be the Rythmik!
@@themastroiannis the BW actually gets really low, lower than most subs around this price it just can't do it at loud volumes. But the L12 is still the upgrade pick :D Both subs however require very careful and precise setup. Be patient, spend time with it. 1 click on the gain or freq can make all the difference.
@@NemoPropaganda thanks again my friend. you really know a ton about subs. it's a new universe for me as I always used to listen on pure stereo setup. appreciate your insight and taking time to respond to so many of us asking you questions. all the best. cheers!
@@themastroiannis thanks man, yeah i used to be a huge basshead before i was an audiophile but i try and not get too technical in the videos. Just make sure you don't turn the sub up too high, even the best subwoofers will muddy the sound if you drive them too hard. It will ruin the integration.
Power doesn't translate directly to volume as you keep implying! Clearly not an engineer. And you're clearly misunderstanding the bass extension features on the plate amp.
Being married ain’t really as “fun” as people make it out to be Just to have someone dictate to you how they want you to live your life I don’t judge people that go that route but unless one lucks out finding someone it’s like walking thru a minefield….. blindfolded….. pitch dark It’s only a matter of when and not if that things go 💥🔥
Ports do not output real bass. They output bass fog that sort of sounds like real bass, but is out of sync and time delayed. There is no cure. Passive radiators are similarly bad. Always get sealed subwoofers and always use two. Never use just one no matter how low you cross over. You will never get good room coupling and integration with just one subwoofer. It's just not possible. You cannot change the laws of physics.
i really wish i could disagree with you because i love ported subwoofers too but i know in my heart what you say is true. As far as dual subs again you're also right. A single sub can sound good but dual subs is a different experience.
Brooooo that song is super weird and really hard to recommend a sub for because it's essentially fancy beat boxing so I ask myself what is a humans mouth making bass notes in an echo chamber supposed to sound like and the truth is i have no idea :) For what it's worth it sounded just fine on the REL 1205 and Rythmik L12. Both articulated everything well and handled that bass drop 2/3rds in with ease and finesse.
$559 each in 2021? I just got a pair for $599 each in 2023. Amazing that they only came up by 9% in 2 years. Way to go, Rhythmik! So happy I chose them.
congrats on a great purchase!
Thanks! In support of you and what you do! I like your honesty, down to earth reviews, and the unfiltered nature of your channel.
Much appreciated!
You are a bloody good presenter , so natural .. just like a Rythmik .
best compliment ever, thank you!
My main speakers (for music exclusively) is a pair of Elac Unifi FS towers. They go down to around 42 Hz per specs. It's good enough for maybe 80-90% of the music I listen to. But when I listen to Telarc CDs a good subwoofer helps a lot in improving the overall sound not just the bass. An SVS SB1000 did wonders. The match was seamless to my ears
A year later I tried the Rythmic L12 and removed the SVS. Now the system integration is even better after carefully matching the level, phase and crossover setting. It is like the subwoofer driver and the woofer drivers are of the same DNA!
I had the same experience with my SB3000 and then changing to REL, to my ears the SVS sub was perfect for over a year but then the extra detail of the REL was something i couldn't resist. I'm really wanting to try the Rythmik F12SE now :D
Luv my little Speedwoofer....it's next to my HSU VTF 15 MK2'S. The Speedwoofer for are for finesse tight as a drum for music, and the HSU's are for "giving me internal injuries while being thrown around in my theater". Great honest review on the Rythmik!
ahahaha that sounds good! i hope to reaview the RSL soon! I keep hearing great things about it!
Went to the Rythmik shop near Austin recently and talked to Brian. The build quality and bracing of the enclosures is impressive. Even their cheaper class D amplifiers use toroidal transformers which is pretty special. The drivers are built specifically for Rythmik, the cast frames are legit. Brian is the real deal.
yes sir! I talked to him a few times, dude really knows his stuff!
Do they have a showroom or demo viewing? I live close to Austin.
I don't think so. I called the number on Google and Brian met me at their shipping warehouse.
Hello, I just subscribed to your channel. I discovered it after doing a search for the Rythmik L12's. I like your style of unpretentious reviews. Very down to earth. I have been a long time audiophile (1972) but always on a budget. I have been a long time B&W (early 90's) fan. I currently have a modest 5.2.4 system in a small 10x10x9 room. Denon 6400H 11 channel receiver, Emotiva T1 towers, C1 center channel, and E1's for height and surround speakers. Plus 2-Rythmik L12's. I have one on the inside of the right tower, and the second 1/2 way between my listening position and the front speakers on the left side wall. Rythmik suggested that placement to eliminate any null areas. I am a fanatic for musical accuracy and I think the Rythmiks integrate with the Emotivas very well. For movies the twin L12's give tight chest pounding bass. For music, I now primarily listen to Tidal. The Denon is now capable of broadcasting MQA. At first not, but after a firmware update it is. I will be adding an Emotiva XPA 3-Gen 3 amp for LCR. Sound quality should tighten up as the Emotiva speakers are 4 ohms and very power hungry. Following the 70% rule, I figure the receiver at best is only pushing 95w/channel. Sorry for the long soliloquy. Good job with your reviews. Keep it up.
Hey Ichiban, welcome aboard my friend! Your system is made up of two brands that make great gear!! Rythmik and Emo are fantastic!! Your room is almost identical to mine except I'm 10x12 with 9ft ceilings. One of my home theater friends is selling a few amps if you're interested email me nemopropaganda@gmail.com and I'll connect you guys together. He has an outlaw 5000 and a couple others I can't remember, he's one of those guys that likes to play around with gear so he's always buying & selling ya know :)
You cover the basics, the specs and you give a well-informed, unbiased opinion. You are becoming one of the best reviewers on UA-cam IMHO. Keep it up.
I am considering a new subwoofer and so I'm absorbing all of the information I can prior to a decision.
Hey Wynn, thank you for the kind words! That means a lot to me. Feel free to ask any questions, you can also email me if you like using the email listed in my about section.
@@NemoPropaganda I have yet to see anyone review the Focal SUB UTOPIA EM COLOUR EVO Subwoofer? At $20,000 I would be very curious to hear how that sounds!!!!!
@@OCleirigh1776 honestly bro Focal doesn't fuck with me, all 3 Focal reviews I've done (chora, aria, kanta) I've bought the speakers with my own money. I'm not revieweing Focal anymore because I feel they don't have any respect for smaller content creators. The irony is I'm obviously also a customer but they don't seem to care.
Thumbs up. Nice video. I'm a huge fan of multisub and as I build out systems I noticed the priority of my criteria for powered subwoofers changes.
For single sub
1) Output
2) F3 and F6
3) Flat response 25 to 95 Hz
4) Price
5) Size
6) Finish, build quality and weight
For dual subs that order changes to
1) Price
2) Flat response 25 to 95 Hz
3) F3 and F6
4) Size
5) Output
6) Finish, build quality and weight
I was waiting for you to expound on how the servo feature of this sub made it sound/perform differently.
Hey Jeff, I try not to get too technical on this channel so I purposely didn't get into the servo tech, plus people can read all about it on their website. In super laymen terms though it's going to allow for flatter FR and boost overall efficiency so your wattage goes a little further. How much further is anyone's guess though...
Go ahead keep it subjective. Too many reviewers just cop out with (it depends on your taste, etc). Take this angle and run with it. It could be your differentiator.
I'm running with it brother, thank you for the support. It's more my style, I feel a little fake when i have to hold back my personal opinion.
yup keep it 100%
Just bought one to go with my KEF Q350 and Bluesound Powernode. Can’t wait to set it up.
excellent choice!
I've been looking at higher end Rythmik, SVS ($1500), and REL ($2400) subs for music, with secondary duty for LTE. Thanks for your review. I'm finding it difficult to tease out the advantages and disadvantages of REL and Rythmik's different approaches, and your direct comparisons of comparable products from the three companies is helpful.
If you have a $2400 budget the REL S/812 is on sale right now for $2599. Part of the reason REL cost more straight up comes down to the looks, fit, and finish. All 3 companies will give you big bass quantity, how it's delivered is slightly different. SVS brings that initial slam and room pressurization that makes you go "wow!", Rythmik gives you a little more low freq extension from a similar sized cabinet and slightly better bass detail and articulation, while REL brings transient speed to the table as well as better bass detail and articulation like Rythmik. Essentially REL is the quicker, Rythmik plays deeper. None of these companies make bad subwoofers but i will say any sub that uses a DSP will integrate better in a HT environment where the processor can correct timing and delay whereas in a music only system the more passive approach (rel) is easier to integrate by ear.
👏👍
@@NemoPropaganda I bought 6 S/812's line array for $2,200 each last year!
@@OCleirigh1776 hope in the free discord and post some pics!! Discord Link: discord.gg/3PkFQf4y6Z
I like your reviews man well done. These are my dream pair of subs so glad you liked it, wait till you hear two of them in your focal/kinki set up!
You should totally get one to start, they're great! I had a chance to review the pair but i was lazy and didn't want to haul 2 subwoofers home lol. I will do a video on dual subs one day though :)
Can confirm. I was pretty surprised going from sb1000pros, much deeper, cleaner, louder if want, musical. Exactly what i was looking for. Have them paired with heco 700's and love the combo
Nice! Heco makes a great speaker!!!!
This is the best sub in budget area 600 or less subwoofer it’s small but mighty I have a pair of them myself every time there’s a movie or explosion in a movie I feel like a earthquake is going on I just hear and feel bass but I can’t locate it with music it’s fast and accurate like it should be it’s the best of both worlds after about a month the subs sounded deeper and louder after break
Hi there. Just watched the video and wanted to thank you for the great work. Short and sweet to the point :)
I just wanted to mention this model also comes in white, which is not common on every model.
Cheers
Hi Uncle! (you have my uncles name) thank you for pointing that out :)
Really enjoy my FVX15, thinking of ordering LV12F for my living room setup.
Thanks for the review on the sealed version.
no problem dude! I'm considering trying the FVX12 next, currently playing with the F12 and L22 though. Those will be the next reviews.
Sounds like the choice for me - I don’t play loudly - I want a musical sub, not a HT boom box - the low price and small size equal high WAF - the sealed design should provide good articulation with no overhang - the light paper cone should start and stop quickly despite not having a megawatt amp - the servo control should improve speed even more. All good!
go for it, you won't regret it!!!!
Love these subwoofer reviews! Keep em coming brotha.
I'm running out of subwoofers lol, Hsu Research and Starke Sound are local, it's time i start begging for samples lol. I am also considering buying a Rythmik F12SE for myself but also considering the FVX12.... ahhhh, like most of you guys i too suffer from indecision :(
Great review, thanks. I think I'm going to pull to trigger on the L12.
Do it! It impressed me so much I'm ordering a pair of their F12SE models :D
I am considering the L12. Mostly interested in tight, clean base at lower volumes. Do you still like and recommend it- or any others? RSL is coming out (April) with an all new 12" Speedwoofer. It comes with a nice remote control for about the same price.
I love my Rythmiks subs. Great review. Subscribed.
Thank you, which model do you have?
@@NemoPropaganda i have dual FV15HPs. I recommend giving then a listen if you can.
@@ryangilmore234 I would love to but they're just too big and heavy for my room. I almost bought 1 of FB marketplace but we couldn't come to terms.
That was a great review. Thanks brother.
Glad you enjoyed it Kevin!
Good stuff man... I've watched several different videos on these rythmik subs in tha last couple of days. Nice subs that don't get much attention..
Oh yeah! I’ll be reviewing the Rythmik F12SE soon!!
Nice review - I like your evaluation criteria - great job!
Thank's KO!
I like your channel and I like your style of reviewing. I just subscribed. Thanks for your content!
thank you bro, is that you in the pic? Looking jacked my man! Keep that shit up!
Will a sealed subwoofer 🔊 sound good with ported speakers? Do it matter?
it doesn't matter, most people with a music system are running ported speakers with a sealed subwoofer. If your subwoofer has slope adjustment you want to pick 24dB, if it doesn't just adjust frequency, gain, phase and that's it.
Another subwoofer review, great:)
Because you asked about alternatives, a first thought would be the jamo 660, which has comparable specs and price (I think)
The Jamo 660 is discontinued :( looks like they mainly focus on super budget subs now. I’m eager to get back to reviewing speakers but nothing is really catching my eye. Granted i still need to do the Focal Chora 806.
Want those Focals so bad!
@@trufnk I just got the matching stands for them, hope to have the review up in a few weeks. They're good speakers and have a very unique presentation, very very very open and airy sounding. I think some people will love them and some people will hate them :D
I was planning to get 2 Monolith 10s, but you've answered some questions for me, in terms of bass articulation vs impact. I'm leaning towards servos now.
I don't think they even make the 10s anymore, it looks like only the ported models are for sale now anyway. Either way the Rythmik L12 at $569 is the golden child in my opinion at this price point.
Monolith 10 THX Select Certified 500. Their site says it should be restocked 2/5/21. Let's hope that's correct.
Hi...any chance of listening to the Rythmik rear-ported LV12R...? thanks
I reviewed the Rythmik FVX12 already if that helps :) ua-cam.com/video/_rDxNytOg_g/v-deo.html I've also reviewed the F12 and L22 so I'm not sure if I will review the LV12R also but I've reviewed enough Rythmik subwoofers to tell you this: they are damn good!
@@NemoPropaganda great review...thanks
actually found the latest recommendation for subwoofer. so the question is, would you pair this with wharfedale diamond 220? my use is primarily music. mostly dance music - house, disco etc. thanks!
Hi Aditya, yes absolutely, this is my favorite sub in this price range and I listen to EDM also so I know it's a good match for that kind of music too!
@@NemoPropaganda legend 🙌🏽 thanks!
Another great review Nemo! This is on my short list but I really wish they made a smaller version suitable for smaller rooms. Do you have an opinion how the B&W ASW608 would compare with the Kef Kube 8b and the Rel Ht/1003? Mostly music.
A commenter that owns the REL 1003 said my REL 12005 was inline with his own experience owning the 1003 just with slightly less as you would expect from a smaller sub. I've never heard the Kef Kube 8b (i've had my eye on it though). The B&W sound is closer to the Rythmik sound. The REL HT is a tighter sound with speed being it's primary focus. The B&W and Rythmik sound is still quick but more so in a way that is natural and melodic. Both are very pleasing to my ears as both sounds offer up very good levels of detail and articulation. The Rythmik will integrate just a touch better in music only systems with it's 12db slope whereas the REL HT series uses an 18db slope as it's intended use is HT. With all that said i think if you like the ASW608 your natural progression would be the Rythmik L12.
@@NemoPropaganda Thanks that's really helpful. I need a small but high quality sub for a future desktop set up for music in a tiny home office. I'll keep my eyes open for a possible Kef Kube review if you ever get your hands on one. I did notice the B&W is about 12 years old now. Any chance they'll upgrade it in the near future? Thanks again for a great channel.
@@dansuess4859 You never know, B&W was recently acquired by Sound United so it's really unknown what they will do next.
Great video review. Hoping you get that F12SE or F12G!
I did, I have a pair of F12SE right now :D hoping to review them soon, just learning them right now.
@@NemoPropaganda I am purchasing the F12’s also and opted for the F12G.
Was also considering the Rel t9i and SVS SB-3000 but think the Rythmik combines the best of both of those. Very much looking forward to your review.
@@nwestmoreland1 Nice dude! I went with the metal cone simply for the look, I LOVE IT!!! I can't wait for my review too lol, I still don't know what I'm going to say besides "it's good". The T9i is a totally different kind of subwoofer and very misunderstood, I need to do a video on that one day but it's actually designed to make a speaker sound full range while still using another sub dedicated to LFE effects like the REL S/812.
Can we compare it with the REL T5i? Or is the comparison not worth it?
T5i will take the edge in sound quality overall, integration, and dynamics. Rythmik L12 will take the edge in extension, deep bass, and maximum output while still having very good sound quality and integration, just not as good as the T5i. I would make the decision based on room size. Bigger room, get the L12 pair, smaller room go for the T5i pair.
Great review! Everything you said echoes what I mentioned in my short review as well. I have a pair of these and a pair of FVX15s as well. All of Rythmik's subs are superb and deliver deep, crisp, articulate bass. I have sound demos of them on my channel if interested in hearing them.
Hey bro, I've actually seen your vids :D I almost grabbed a FVX15 that was for sale locally but decided against it due to the size, I think it's more of a "wow" subwoofer but most people can't accommodate the size. My room is only 12x10x9 :(
@@NemoPropaganda Hahaa, that's what's up 😊. Yeah the FVX15s are massive and the output is nothing short of stunning - especially with a pair of them. The articulation that they have to be large, ported subs is unbelievable. They're just as accurate as my smaller, sealed L12s. The four of them together is mind-blowing - not just big bass that you can feel through your body, but the tightness and precision of how bass is supposed to be heard, and with high distribution having a sub on each corner of the room. Gotta love it. I currently have them all reeled in to 84db so it's not too crazy.
@@PolkFan dear god, you remind me of my one of my buddies, he has an identical layout but with SVS instead, dual PB16 up front with dual SB3000 in the rear. You HT guys make me jealous with how much rumble you have :D. I have this sick idea of grabbing a pair of FVX12's just to mess around with when i want that ported sound. I know a lot of audiophiles hate ported subs and I'll agree they're not the most accurate but it's like driving a fast car that only goes straight, it still puts a damn smile on my face!
@@NemoPropaganda 😁That sounds pretty badass. I highly recommend going for those FVX12s. Trust me when I tell you, Rythmik ported subs are not like typical ported subs. Being that they're direct -servo subs they're far more accurate than your typical ported sub with a fat amp attached to it. Rythmik's ported subs are just as fast and accurate as any sealed sub. And the bonus is that you get that thick room-filling bass that ported subs are known for. The price is right; the sound is definitely right, nothing to lose.
@@PolkFan Nothing to lose but my money lol, I just can't justify it, I just got the dual F12SE a few days ago... Maybe next year i will, but so far in my little room these bad boys are putting down some serious LFE!! I'm really happy with them.
I'm 68 years old and, sadly, have hearing loss over 3khz. (Hearing aids all sound like plastic crap! Worse than a ceramic phono cartridge!) That means quite of bit of the nuances of the music are lost; air, imaging, sound stage, etc. BUT, I can still hear the bass just fine! I'm in a small condo with 2 separate systems. I was used to regular cone type speakers and still have a small collection of ADS speakers, and a pair of SARAS ST200s!
The stereo room (approx 9 or 10'x12'x8') is carpeted and has room treatments. I'm currently using Magnepan MMGs and, at first, one Velodyne F1500 Servo subwoofer, then two of them to help with dispersion. (I still have an old ULD15 Servo in the closet, unused for 15 or so years.) I was never able to achieve good integration in such a small room. SPL was not a problem. The subs were barely set on maybe "2." I bought the F1500 simply because it reached lower with less effort than the F1200 at that time, 25 years ago. These were hooked up to the high level inputs, but I could run RCAs if need be. I think it would be 20'. Another 20' for the high pass RETURN back to the amp! Is that too long??
I listen to mostly jazz, bluegrass and other acoustic music. Of course I have some awesome TELARC recordings that have some very low bass on them. Also a collection of direct-to-disc LPs.
I recently needed a new subwoofer in the living room for the HT setup, so I moved one of the F1500s down there. (Approx 16'x31'x11') The old M&K MX100/1000 amp failed and the surround was rotting. That system is not really "high-end" and no carpet or room treatments. 90% Netflix or DVDs.
I found a location for the sub that worked great in the HT setup! It worked great for about 2 days! That's when the foam surround blew out! I figured it was worth having that fixed, so I pulled all 3 15" woofers out of their respective cabinets and took them in for re-foaming. I also took the F1500 amps in for serving. Both were working, but one had a slight hiss, and the other one made a "motorboat" sound for a second as the speaker circuit kicked in. One was fixable, the other "no parts available" but still working. The ULD amp is not making any unusual sounds. The question remains as to whether I keep the Velodynes after having them repaired and use them until they break, or SELL them all while they still work!
I was thinking that if I sell the Velodynes and start over, I would still like to have the bass extension of the F1500 for the stereo room, BUT be able to integrate with the Maggies. And the HT is such a large area (living room, dining room, kitchen, hallway), I doubt something smaller than a 15" driver would easily pressurize the room. And this is with a current volume setting of only "2." The F1500 is 250 watts. I would consider a ported speaker in the HT setup, but not necessarily prefer it. I'm in a small condo, remember? Perhaps new technology would allow a 12" driver to work as good or better than the old F1500 Servo?
I'm retired on a fixed income. Using 2 subs in the same small stereo room didn't work before, but those subs really only had volume and low pass adjustments. No phase control, etc. No room for 2 subs in the HT. Therefore, I would only be buying 2 subs, one for each application.
Rythmik L12 or F12? REL HT1205? HSU VTF-2 or 3? ULS-15? Something else?
I respect your advise.
Thanks!
I havn't heard Hsu subs but in order it's like this L12, then HT1205, then F12 in terms of performance with the F12 at the top of course. If you need the extension of a ported sub but can't fit the typically large cabinet 2 small options are the RSL Speedwoofer and KEF KC62, a pair of either has serious output and extension for the size while maintaining good SQ for the money.
@@NemoPropaganda Thanks for the quick reply! From what I read, the L12 does not have a HPF that I would need for the Maggies. The F12 at nearly twice the price does have them as an option. My concern would be essentially running 40' of RCA cables to the sub and back to the amp. They both seem to have high level inputs, but no high level outputs. I can fit a single 15" sub in the HT setup. The F1500 is there now. Could I realistically expect a modern 12" sub to perform as well as an older 15" sub, or it still a case of "size matters?" (I'm temporarily using an older Klipsch KSW10 in the HT while the F1500s are being serviced. It "maxes out" on some sound effects.)
@@anonmus3485 mmm, that's partly a better question for Rythmik (regarding all the cabling) but yes most modern subs will outperform older units but you might prefer the sound of your older sub. So technically better isn't always better.
Hi, I bought an L12 courtesy of this review. My question is, what are the signs of overexcursion? I'm afraid to push the subwoofer when the driver starts visibly moving (maybe half an inch outwards?). I'm mostly concerned for HT (Interstellar, BR2049, also using Low HT) but I don't play loud for music.
I don't know the xmax spec of that particular driver but generally speaking around an inch or so peak to peak is absolutely within the normal range of movement for a good subwoofer driver, don't worry about how much the cone moves, it's a sealed sub, the cone is gonna move a lot. You have it set to low HT so you have a subsonic filter at 20hz, the sub will for the most part protect itself. You'll know you're overdriving it because it'll slap, literally making a slap/crack sound. If the sub is making that noise it's too small for the room but you can mediate that by changing the switch to HT High, that will make the limiter more aggressive. The L12 is a great sub but still very small so you will find the limit if you really push it with crazy stuff like the edge of tomorrow intro but the HT Low rumble filter should still protect it for the most part. Ultimately, just enjoy the darn thing, it's designed to move, woofers are happy when they're woofing, let'er rip and enjoy!
@@NemoPropaganda appreciate it
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I love my B&W Asw608. It has made my other subs unlistenable, quite honestly. I typically listen at the high 60db region. The 608 is perfect for that. But I like to turn it up to the low 80’s if I really want to jam. The 608 just can’t quite keep up at those volumes. The SVS SB1000, the REL HT and the Emotiva SE12 subs were the.only options that I could think of. I was not convinced of SVS’s tonal accuracy. I was not convinced the REL or the Emotiva could dig as low. This sub checks every box I was looking for!
Hey Matt, yeah the asw608 digs incredibly deep at lower volumes, it's one of those things that's hard to explain to people that haven't heard it so I'm glad you appreciate that aspect. The Emotiva SE12 definitely can't get as low & deep as this. The REL doesn't either but gives you a touch more speed & tightness in exchange. Bass can't really be incredibly deep, tight, and fast at the same time though. If it's really tight & quick it won't be that deep, if it's crazy deep it can't be that fast, so it's a balancing of those traits that matters but personal taste is also a HUGE factor of course. For my taste this sub has a good balance of those attributes but if someone wants the deepest bass they should go for a ported option, if they want the tightest bass, REL brings that, if they want SPL SVS delivers that in spades so it's weird that bass is such a narrow band of the frequency but personal taste is such a big factor here. I think that's something a lot of people don't account for when choosing a subwoofer.
@thatguy Ah the 10d, yeah that thing is a serious thumper!! The 8D is going to be similar honestly but a little more polite at lower volumes and have more of a kick instead of a thump if that makes sense, the BW ASW608 only has low volume performance do to its limited power so it's going to be one of the best subs at lower volumes but the Rythmik L12 is still my SQ pick in the 500 ish dollar price range. Unless you have a space constraint the L12 is the way. Also thank you for the compliments sir, i appreciate it.
@thatguy ah yes, i know that feeling well, I've gone through many subwoofers until i found what i was looking for. I once had an older Veloydne SPL 8. It kicked out so much bass it walked all over the floor but all the bass sounded the same regardless of the actual frequency, it was just a hilarious rumbling mess and that thing was a $900 sub when new.
Great Review. Subscribed. I look for accurate & fast bass. For 50% Music and 50% Small Home Theatre; what would you recommend ?? Rythmik L12 or SVS SB1000 Pro ??
L12 for sure, SB-1000 is very good but much smaller so L12 will extend lower and add more weight to the sound overall. L12 is more comparable to SB2000 due to its size.
@@NemoPropaganda Hey, Thanks Man. Keep uploading great stuff.
Good reviews! It would be good to see a frequency response graph of each subwoofer. I realise it doesn't tell the full story, but I think it helps. They are difficult to find for a lot of subwoofers!
Also, the lip sync is a bit out on your video - production quality is great apart from that though.
They have a graph on their website :).... Subwoofer reviews are already pretty hard on my back, I'm usually rather sore at the end of it from all the getting up, bending over, moving it around, etc... i don't think i can add more work to it lol, honestly i noticed the minor sync issues too but only when i watch on my laptop, if i watch my own videos on my phone or my TV there is no sync issues so i think it's the web browser causing some issues as it seems to be isolated to me using my laptop. Just curious would you mind watching the video on your phone and let me know if it still has sync issues?
@@NemoPropaganda
Aha, great that they’re so confident they can show on their site, I’ll have a look.
I do get lip sync issues on the UA-cam app on iPhone 7. I didn’t try in safari UA-cam yet.
@@martindye okay thank you for checking, oh well, I'll leave the good production quality to other people as my day job keeps me very busy.
Interesting that you did not cover the servo technology that gives Rythmik such an edge. I own a pair of F15HP and am very happy with them for music and then HT which is secondary for me
At the price of $569 I felt the average consumer would be less interested in the technical side of things and more interested in it's overall performance. I plan to review the F12SE soon and may talk about it just a little in that video. Personally I don't get too into the tech side of things, every company has something that they claim makes them different like REL high level inputs, Focal's proprietary cone material, KEF's Meta damping absorbtion, Klipschs taxtrix horn, etc... I don't care about the tech necessarily, i care about how it performs in the real world so that's what i focus on. Hope that answers your question :)
Rythmik L12 or Rel HT/1205? I need it for music first and movies second. I was set on Rel but now I'm torn. Also the 20 pound difference in weight makes me assume that this is constructed to a higher standard. Thank you all:)
I like both subwoofers a lot so you can't go wrong either way but you are correct, the L12 is a good bit more robust in it's overall build and that clearly shows in it's weight despite both units being nearly identical in size. In this specific comparison the L12 gets my vote, it's cheaper, extends lower, and built to a higher standard. This is one of those examples where going MFG direct gets you more bang for your buck.
@@NemoPropaganda Thank you very much. I now have peace of mind. Just ordered it😁Cant wait!! Also, great reviews👍
@@edwinsprojects7039 Hell yeah dude, congrats!!!! Be patient with setup, sometimes its quick but sometimes it can take a lot of trial and error to get it really dialed in.
I like a lot your channel very honest. Still looking for a small subwoofer to go with my kef ls50 active...I bought a cheap 12" subwoofer (400w) 10 years ago it was awful, I sent it back. I'm looking for something small and clean.
Hi Alex, thank you! What is your budget and how small are you looking for?
buy both rel and this. so all the weakness is cross compensated. haha...that would solve the problem of choosing either one. btw , between this and rel HT 1205..which one would u own, if u only got the chance to choose one only.
Well I already own the HT-1205 and the Rythmik F12SE so I think you kind of have to believe me when I say I like both brands equally. Ideally I'd like to own a pair of REL Carbon Specials :D If I was forced to chose I would flip a coin :)
@@NemoPropaganda I think i would choose REL since you say its the same in sound quality, but REL takes the lead in the cosmetics...there is nothing better than showing off with all the money spent...:)
@@bryansu exactly, that's why i bought the F12SE for my Rythmik sub, i wanted the shiny gloss black & metal cone :D. But really either sub is seriously fantastic! The budget category is really competitive these days which is good for us consumers.
What settings were you using? A high Q 14 hz extension is going to sound different than low Q 28hz extension. I prefer low Q 28 extension. It gives all the punch!!
My L12 didn't have settings like that, it just had low music, low HT, and high. I used the low music setting.
My mistake, I thought this was the F12 you reviewed. The question should be directed to the f12 ：）
Would you mind looking into the Velodyne impact 10 (which I already have) and tell me ur thoughts if the L12 would be a real upgrade worth buying? It’s for a small room and music only.
I don't mean to be brutal here but the L12 would absolutely murder the Velodyne Impact 10 in every metric imaginable.
@@NemoPropaganda Wow ok tnx. Btw do you have in ur vids a set up demo on this sub? Or where can I find one?
@@AromaFrank like how to set it up? I did a whole video on subwoofer setup :)
Great review again Nemo!!!
Thank you brother.
@@NemoPropaganda brother any ways that I can DM you?
@@jetlagfrias email me at nemopropaganda@gmail.com
@@NemoPropaganda thank you. Sent an email
So my question is would this subwoofer work well for rebassed / decaf music or would you recommend a ported subwoofers for deep bass? Also I would chose sq over spl
Rythmik is obsessed with having strong output at 20hz and below so this subwoofer will do just fine. Will their ported FVX12 be even better? Hell yeah it will be and you'll still have killer SQ... You sound like a basshead that still appreciates SQ, the FVX12 is the one for you if it's in your budget, if not the L12 is still very good. Oh shit you're FBI? *grabs bug out bag*
@@NemoPropaganda haha will definitely look into that thanks
I want to pair my small Dynaudio towers with dual subs. My options are this or dual t5x from rel. the spec sheet absolutely destroyed the rels. Im purely using it for 2 channel music.
It just depends how much bass you want and how big your room is. The L12 certainly does extend lower than even a pair of T5X. If you're listening to a lot of EDM for example you may be better served by the L12 pair. But if your room is very small the L12 pair may be overkill and the T5X may be the better choice.
@@NemoPropaganda room is an open living room combined with a kitchen in a condo. I would estimate around 500-600 square feet. But I can’t play my music super load because of disturbing neighbors.
@@jonberg469 try and demo a t5x pair at a dealer, that'll tell you if it's enough for you or not but of course it cannot extend like a 12"
This for music over home theater?
Excellent for both.
great great review!! your "wife acceptance factor" comment is priceless! loved it! i also could not marry for the same reasons, but if i were, you're right... i wouldn't care either. i did buy the B&W ASW608 after your recommendation. i love it!! ...so musical! but feel it could go to a second music room that's less spacious. maybe for my living room music heaven this is the one to go with... right?
Tonally they won’t be identical as they’re made by different companies but they are similar sounding for sure. The B&W is a little more punchy sounding which is common for an 8” and the L12 is more linear & accurate but to my ears the L12 is like a big brother to the asw608. Similar, better, but not identical.
@@NemoPropaganda thanks for your response! fascinating. hope to soon have the budget to buy this rythmik! can't wait. thanks a ton!
@@themastroiannis thank you sir for staying with this channel. I’m happy the 608 worked well for you. A lot of people seemed to really love that sub as long as they understood it’s limitations.
Randy @cheapaudioman referred me to your channel- big fan so far! New to using a subwoofer with my stereo. Since I’ve never had a sub I’m only looking for sound quality as any added bass will surely be appreciated.
Small to medium sized room use- music consideration mostly, however I listen to enough kinds of music that maybe some HT/effects consideration makes sense. System ~$3000 in separates, nothing fancy but everything decent/pretty resolving.
$US500-700 budget this go-around, no size/looks or connection restraints. Looking at Rel T/5x (is it big enough?) Rythmik L12 (how close is it to Rel quality sound?) or maybe even two Emotiva SE8s for more even room filling. SVS I’m not sure about. Appreciate any advice or other suggestions- thanks!
oh cool, I love Randy like a fat kid loves cake :D. The L12 is absolutely phenomenal with respect to everything an excellent subwoofer should do and ranks extremely high on the SQ side while still delivering outstanding extension & spl capability. I ranked it best product of 2020 and I really meant it :). If you're in the USA and $500-$700 is your range to spend you simply cannot do better. While I love the T5X I think it performs best in pairs due to it's small size and limited headroom and a pair pushes is out of budget a good bit so we're back to the L12. My advice here is fairly straight forward, buy the L12 and never look back.
@@NemoPropaganda Awesome thanks! I may still go in that direction but 2022 is changing fast, and so is the budget. At around $1100 I was thinking the Rel T7x, but I’m curious how it compares with the 1205 output-wise. I get they are wildly different, but if for example I get 10% better SQ from the T7x but 50% less SPL for HT- I may want to go with the 1205 and save $300. I guess my question, which could be outright dumb to ask is, SQ aside- for HT and SQL what would you compare the T7x to fairly? Maybe something in the $600 range like sealed SVS 1000pro with slam at that level? I get an SVS sub at $1100 will level my entire home. Basically I just don’t want $400 subs made for HT outclassing my T7x in HT. Regardless what the T7x is made for. If that makes sense.
Thanks, it's hard to find many reviews on Rythmik subs. I'm interested in their FV25HP, can't find much info besides their website.
F12SE is coming next :D I don't think I will do the FV25HP, it's way too big for my room but that's a tough sub to beat for a HT setup, I think you should just go for it, from what I've heard from their other subs I think it will not disappoint.
Hey Nemo! Great review as always! I know this review was done awhile ago, but wondered if you had some thoughts on my application. I have an old school DJ setup, with Technics 1200's. I spin mostly House, but I also play Jazz, old school Funk and also will be streaming Quobuzz for Jazz and Electronica. So I am varied. I was almost setup to pull the trigger on some REL T/7x's but I always had something from Rythmik in the back of my mind. I believe the main speakers I have go down to 50 Hz. It almost seems like I would be throwing money away for the REL's if they only go down to 37 Hz, when even an L12 (Please don't tempt me with an F12...!) can go down to 17 Hz! The Rythmik's seem like a no brainer. Am I missing something? Thanks!
thank's Alan, feel free to join the Discord if you want to chat more: discord.gg/pNtZkqh8 it's free. The short answer to your question is Rythmik offers tremendous value for US customers that is difficult to beat.
Does the L12 require single RCA to RCA or is it single RCA to double RCA? I bought a single-to-single RCA and the sub didn't work.
@@ArthaxtaDaVince777 it should work like that for sure. Make sure you have the power switched on.
@@NemoPropaganda I'm using a y splitter with my Cambridge 851N. The single RCA is not producing any sound except some pops.
Hi Nemo. I currently have BIC F12's(yeah I know) I am looking to upgrade. And until today it was between REL T/5x or Rythmik F12. Now I read about the B&W ASW 608. The 608's can be found much cheaper. Would the 608's be a good upgrade over the BIC f12?
Sorry bro I don't have any experience with BIC subs but the L12 absolutely murders the ASW608 and the T5X is also better.
Hi Nemo, which subwoofer do you think has the most clarity and is easiest to integrate? The Rhythmik L12 or the REL HT/1003 MKII?
Hi Lisa, they are both about equal in that regard though some may feel the L12 is a little easier to dial in since it gives you a real phase control where REL gives you a polarity switch but personally in my first hand experience both subs were incredibly easy to setup and integrated perfectly. As far as clarity they are both excellent but the slightly larger L12 (being a 12") will be able to play louder and extend deeper.
As always great info! So I have been enjoying the 2 Rythmik F18's for both music and movies. I want to add two more subs to fill in for the F18's mostly with movie effects but ill take any added benefit with music. I don't think my goal requires the F12 and was thinking about adding two L12's. The customer service and Brian are great. There is another sub ive seen positive reviews on which is comparable at this price point and has 900 peak/450 RMS. Any experience with Starke SW12?
Hey thanks John! Starke is not a brand I would recommend nor cover for various reasons. While this video is a bit old I have reviewed many subwoofers since and my original assessment remains. At it's price there is nothing better than the L12 and it's a true hidden gem for US customers. I suggest you hop in the free discord (link is in newer videos) as there is a user in there also running dual F18 with a ton of subwoofer experience who also owned a pair of L12, F12, G25, KEF KC62, KEF KF92, SVS PB16, SVS SB3000, and many more subs, you might enjoy getting his opinion on what your trying to accomplish :).
@@NemoPropaganda as always thanks for your opinion. I like the brand and enjoy my F18's. The L12's will be delivered Thursday. Theres not a lot of youtube reviews on it. I did watch your review and the EOY value recommended video of it. I think this will complete the entire system upgrade. Before I bought the F18's I must have watched your Rythmik reviews and @sparechange F18 review a dozen times minimum. Only a slight increase in price 599 each if you buy 2 and with the crazy pricing and your positive reviews i felt it was a deal. Looking forward to hearing what dual F18's and dual L12's can do. Now ive got to master REW and minidsp2x4.
@@johngentry5885 I've heard dual F18 in a theater and it was amazing, I'm sure your systems gonna be awesome. Of course setup will take some time having so much bass :)
Yo my guy John gentry how are the L12s?
I’ve narrowed down my search to it
@@demonreturns4336 they are quite punchy and get pretty low. Even though the wattage is low they have a nice presence and they blend well. They are a great value at the price point. I don't think other subs at the price can really compare. Im sold on the brand and really enjoy the dual F18's and L12's. Im thinking of moving the L12's to a side firing position of seating and I have the F18's in the rear, then add some 15's from Rythmik up front.
Sound great! grant afford it.. What do you have for $50-$100?
What's up Daniel! Sooo the Polk PSW110 often goes on sale for $99, it's not a good subwoofer really but it's as good as you can get for 99 bucks :) Dayton also has an 10" sub for $119 and a 8" for $99, not the best but again about as good as you can do for the money www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-SUB-1000-10-100-Watt-Powered-Subwoofer-300-628
@@NemoPropaganda that dayton does look interesting, Looking for something to pair with a set of Dayton Audio B652-AIRs Im thinking about getting, once that tax return actually comes in anyway. I was thinking about pairing the B652s with this cheap kit thing www.aliexpress.com/item/32812347668.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.70d23c00KWQVyj&mp=1
@@danielauen7790 I don't know much about DIY but if you have the skills that could be cool!! If you're in the USA I have a 100wx2 Lepai Class D amp that I don't use anymore, It's yours it you want it, hell I'll even cover the shipping :)
@@NemoPropaganda That is extremely generous, But I would like to decline the offer, the reason I chose that kit is because Ive built a few similar things and enjoy putting them together, its kinda cheap, even if I need to find a power supply somewhere, and I can set it on my desk to act as a headphone amplifier as well. It should be pretty simple to put together if you want to try some soldering. Never know, might be a fun project to try. I have a couple big tube amps in the garage that need rebuilt, an almost twin set of 6l6 push pull amps, somewhere around 30 watts each, I dont have a schematic for them, but I do plan on getting them rebuilt at somepoint, a shop I found quoted me about $200 for the job, Im kinda curious as to what they will sound like, or even if the B652-AIRs Im planning on getting would mesh well with them, or if I should find a nice pair of floor speakers on craigslist to pair with them.
@@danielauen7790 I'm a lot of things kind of guy but DIY isn't one of them, I'd sooner change the clutch on a 1995 honda civic before I pickup a soldering iron. I have pretty bad tendonitis in my hands and arms so small & precise movements like soldering or writing with a pen get painful really quickly :(... Other than that I probably would enjoy the hell out of it, but it's not a hobby I can have so I sold all my soldering gear a few years back. Even video games get painful, shit even responding to comments too much somtimes cramps me up but I have a text to speech program so that helps. It's a weird injury to have but it seems everyone's got something lol.
Is this subwoofer magnetically shielded by any chance? Looking for a CRT-safe subwoofer to pair with a front pair and centre from Ascend Acoustics - thanks!
No, most subs are not shielded, I don't think it will be a problem though as the magnet should not be too close.
Do you plan to review f18 rythmik?. Do you recommend this for HT?
Next Rythmik subs will be the E15HP2 and then the G22 when that's back in stock, the F18 is a little too heavy for me but my friend has a pair and I've heard them a few times. If you're a subscriber I post updates in the community section and we have a free discord also where i post updates about upcoming vids. Discord Link: discord.gg/3PkFQf4y6Z
For music I would recommend the F12G. It's still good for movies too!
of course however the F12 is about double the price. At $569 the L12 is a music champion in it's price category.
Great review. Thanks
Could use a little help. I'm running a Yamaha TSR 7810, Monitor Audio speakers, and an old Infinity BU-2 sub that needs to be replaced. My use is 80% HT. I'm trying to decide between the Speedwoofer 10S MKII, HT/1003, SB-1000 Pro, MKII, Rythmic L12, and HT/1205 MKII. The sub must be located behind my gear/flat screen setup in a corner which is a tight space so I can't go larger than the HT/1205 (preferably a little smaller). Leaning toward the 10S and L12. Would rather spend less but willing to spend more if it's worthwhile. Thanks.
Did you manage to get a Speedwoofer? I’m selling my black RSLs for a pair of white ones but am considering getting these instead. I only care about SQ. Not output.
Yes, Speedwoofer landed very recently (3 days ago). I can't comment on a comparison yet but wow I am impressed by the speedwoofer. It's ability to extend low while also providing tactile bass is a rare combination.
@@NemoPropaganda awesome. Let me know if you have an ETA on the review. I just shipped mine out and am going to go for another pair (white), some L12s, or HT1205. I’ll be waiting on your review before I pull the trigger! No pressure tho. 😜
Hi Nemo, excellent channel and unbiased. Can you do a review on an Earthquake mini me 12-dsp subwoofer?
I would like to know your opinion on that one in particular.
Keep up the greatwork.
Thank you for the kind words. I will not review that sub for a few reasons. It looks like a total ripoff and here is why I say that: $1400 for a subwoofer that does not publish RMS wattage nor frequency response is simply a bad deal. They say it has 600w max power so that's maybe 300w RMS, for $1400? That's crazy expensive, additionally they say it goes down to 18hz but do not specify if that is -3db or -6db and that's because the real spec at 18hz is nearly -20db! To rate this sub at 18hz is such a gross exaggeration and deceptive that I consider this disrespectful to the audio community. Based on it's false specs and deceptive marketing I would strong advise you do not buy this subwoofer. If you like the features that this has consider the SVS SB-2000pro instead, it has nearly double the power, an honest +-3db 19hz extension, and is from a far more reputable company.
I have their f18 and it's an awesome sub. For an 18" sub, it's pretty compact.
Wow that must be epic. How big is your room? I just got a pair of the F12SE today.
@@NemoPropaganda It's only 9.5 x 15 x 8. I had a bigger room before, but we moved. If I had to do it again, I would probably go with two 15"s to save on floor space in a small room. Two F12se, that's sweet!
@@elongatuspiranha ah yes... moving really can throw a wrench in things. I had the SVS PC-2000 before in a bigger room, same story, i moved and suddenly that huge cylinder was just a bit too big for the new smaller room which is what started the hunt for a new smaller subwoofer.
I have one and I like it and I'm sure I don't have it set up right and I'm also sure I am not eager to learn everything there is to learn about how to set one of these things up. I want to hook it up turn it on and listen to it. I think having it properly tuned maybe more art than science not sure also sounds like it may just be a lot of try this and try that I wish it wasn't so I'd like to just say two plus two equals four done.
I hear ya Mike, all that matters is that it sounds good to you though! You can experiment with the settings though but unfortunately great sound as you have suggested is more art and lots of trial and error with a ton of personal taste :)
Great review thanks. Pity there's no UK dealer
I would check the REL-1205 then, it's different but just as good!
I'm looking for a computer/desk subwoofer for music and gaming. I've been demoing a REL HT/1003 for a week and it sounds great, but the L12 is only marginally more expensive and will still fit in the placement areas I have (HT/1205 will not).
Is it worth going for the L12 over the HT/1003 for music and gaming?
Placement is very challenging which will make it more difficult to get the most out of either option.
So the L12 in an open room vs the 1003, well the L12 is much larger so it will have more SPL & extension capability and it sounds like you're super tight on space. If you already have the 1003 and it sounds great I'd just keep that. The larger L12 should offer more performance but it might not since you have unique placement. Either way both subs are good, if it's under the desk I'd stick with the 1003, if it's not under the desk maybe flip a coin 😁
@@NemoPropaganda I kind of YOLO sent it and ordered an L12 this morning anyway. I suppose I'll find out through trial and error if that was a good choice, and I'll be able to compare them both side by side and see if I can make the L12 sound good with the limited placement options I have - Fortunately I have more than a single placement option.
@@Bikeanon ahahaha I love that! So it should be really easy for you, the L12 is really easy to setup so it should immediately sound much stronger, if not the placement is killing it.
@@NemoPropaganda My first impressions of the L12 are very promising. One thing I noticed, however, is in some very quick progression bass situations, the L12 seems to be a little lethargic compared to the HT/1003 - I wonder if this is something that might get better with break-in, or if this is something the F12 is better at than the L12 - More power, more rigid cone, etc.
@@Bikeanon by direct comparison the servo tech does seem to real in the initial attack & slam just a little bit, if its a huge difference it could be a phase issue. Also don't be scared to use the frequency knob more than usual. With Rythmik subs sometimes I blend as high as 60hz while most other brands i keep it under 50hz and many times even 40hz. What I recommend is fight the urge to go back and fourth. Play the L12 for 1 week before going back to the 1003, that will give you more time to pickup on the more nuanced differences. That's a trick i discovered running this channel. Quick A/B comparisons only reveal the "wow" aspects of each product and aren't always the best representation of what it's like to live with the product. Either way enjoy the ride and thanks for the update!
Great channel. Subbed.
Would these pair up with LRS Maggie’s?Using for music only.
I have not heard maggies in my room but my understanding is most maggie owners prefer the F12. The L12 is very good but it has a warmer sound, it's transeints are amazing but the warmer sound may give the perception that it's not as quick while the F12 is more technical, more articulate, tighter bass, etc... So not only is its transient response even better but it sounds quicker too. Speed and the perception of speed are 2 different things. The F12 is the one for you or possibly the FM8. I suggest you reach out to Rythmik to be 100% sure as they have more experience with maggies than I do.
Thank you sir!
Excellent review.
Glad you liked it!
@@NemoPropaganda , just purchased one. You deserve a commission. 🙂
@@Roeldls Excellent choice my man!!! I don't do this for money, I'm just happy to help. I don't want any money.
@@NemoPropaganda , I rarely watch youtube reviews since I've gotten tired of watching some very bad presentations but yours was excellent. I ended up watching your F12 review right after I purchased the L12 and now have a little buyer's remorse...haha. Do you review bookshelf speakers? I've been on the fence about the Meta Ls50's for many months. They just went on sale for $ 1299 and now have an itchy trigger finger.
@@Roeldls Yes, I reviewed it here :) ua-cam.com/video/GMgGFjzR2AM/v-deo.html I like the LS50 meta sound a lot but I don't like the look. As far as the F12SE well it is about 2x the price compared to L12 so unless you want to spend that much more I wouldn't worry about it.
@Nemo Propaganda Reviews thoughts on KEF KC62 vs Rythmik L12? I have KEF LS50 but may get Buchardt S400 mkii or other speakers. KEF KC62 seems like a perfect fit for LS50, but wondering about other options like Rythmik, in terms of quality bass, integration of bass, and performance for music 1st, movies 2nd.
Both are really good in those metrics, the L12 will have more articulate midbass like between 50-80hz and be better suited to louder listening or bigger rooms as its much larger. The KC62 is all about amazing bass in a tiny package so most of the money you pay is for the size. If you want a tiny sub the kc62 is insanely good but if you don't have any space restrictions the larger L12 will save you a lot of money while performing just as well.
@@NemoPropaganda Thanks Nemo. I am leaning towards Rythmik L12. Do you think F12 is worth the extra cost?
@@StefanUrkel Yes I think F12 is worth the higher price for sure but L12 is also very good. Each one is dominant in its price category.
You should get a HSU in for review... specifically the ULS-15 MK2 fantastic its sub, fast musical while also able to shake the whole house for movies. I dont think theres a better sub anywhere near its price point at $800. Punches well above its price point, you would probably have to get a SVS SB4000 or higher to match or exceed it. I would love to see a head to head of the REL Predator 1508 vs the HSU ULS-15 MK2, they are very similar subs in terms of characteristics specs and peoples descriptions of them.
I’ve emailed them twice, they’re only 20 minutes away from me, but no response :(
@@NemoPropaganda I heard they are bad with email responses sometimes... maybe try giving them a call! I had an issue with one of my drivers once and got right through right away and talked to Dr. HSU himself. Customer service is top notch resolved my issue right away.
Okay i will try :)
@@NemoPropaganda awesome, thanks for the response! I think you will completely blown away for its price point. I love music and movies equally this sub was perfect for it! HSU needs to step up their social media game though, they are mainly word of mouth right now. I think a lot of people would pick them over other more popular brands if they knew about them haha.
@@Paranimal86 Agreed..just look at all of the reviews here on UA-cam....it's the SVS killer! More tactile feel and also great for music. The 15h MK2 plays like a $2000 and over sub at least but sells for half the price!
The infinity reference r12 is on sale for 169. I grabbed 2 hopefully they don't suck.
With 300w RMS they should play plenty loud at least and they look nice, that's a killer price, let us know how it turns out.
@@NemoPropaganda I actually just changed my order. The JBL 550p went up for 189. They seem to be more what I'm looking for. Same amount of power a little bit smaller and look nicer. It's a 12-inch ported versus a 10 inch sealed. But the JBL goes 2hz lower then Infinity. Even though it's smaller it weighs 10 lb more. People seem to really like that series of JBL so hopefully I made the right choice with 2 of the jbl.
@@snakedude61 Interesting, the JBL looks like more of a quality piece and lower bass is always better :)
@@NemoPropaganda that's what I figured. People really seem to like the speakers in that series. I've just never heard anything about the subs.
Would this integrate well with the Polk R200s?
yes, very nicely.
Hey man, do you need single ended RCA or single to double ended RCA for the line in connections?
It has both L&R inputs so you can use single RCA if or dual. So like if your sub output is a single out no problem or if you only have pre-out LR then you would use both.
@@NemoPropaganda Apologies for the multiple comments, but I'm using an 851N preamp which doesn't have subouts, I connected a y splitter to the available digital output, and the LFE cable to y splitter is not producing any sound.
@@ArthaxtaDaVince777 You cannot use a digital output for a subwoofer my friend. You have to either use the RCA line output or if that is already being used you should be able to use XLR to RCA cables and use the "balanced out" connectors as long as both outputs are constant on and not switched.
@@NemoPropaganda Man, I'm really in a bind. I have the y splitter connected to the digital output, the single RCA didn't work and I have ordered another double RCA on the way. Is there any way to connect my L12 to this stupid preamp (851N).
@@ArthaxtaDaVince777 why are you asking me the same question again after I’ve already answered? Did you not read my answer?
When you say articulation is better than an SVS SB-2000 Pro can you quantify that?
Definitely not my friend. Articulation is essentially detail so if we look at speakers for example and I say the Focal Chora 806 has more detail than the Elac DBR-62 how would I quantify that claim? I can clearly hear the difference but how does one quantify it? And furthermore that more detail doesn't make one speaker better than the other, in fact i prefer the Elac over the Focal Chora so personal taste plays a big factor. If you like more quantifying check out the written review from erins audio corner, he has a lot of measuring equipment and really dives deep into the objective side of things whereas I'm just a guy with an opinion, his review is for the F12G www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/rythmik-f12g-direct-servo-subwoofer/
Great review! I just started getting into hi-fi audio, and am looking for a sub that will round out the low end that is lacking in my really nice bookshelf speakers (100% music on this system). Since I'm new to this hobby and my system was a gift, I'm looking for the best VALUE in sub that I can find. Had been sort of debating SVS SB-1000 vs. the extra cash for a REL. Think you sold me on this most likely being the answer.
Hey Cameron, what bookshelf speakers do you have? If they're REALLY nice you may want to step up to the F12 model.
@@NemoPropaganda Stirling LS3/5a v3's. Running them with a Spectral DMC-10 preamp and a Transcendent tube amp.
[Edit, after a bit or research] - Apparently the LS3/5a have a reputation for being difficult to pair with subs. Having the quickest sub possible seems to be the key thing. What I've seen favors a lighter paper cone over metal. That has me looking at the L12, F12G, or FM8.
I've got cash for a $1000 sub, but would really like to stay
@@cameronlloyd9752 okay that makes it easy, quickest sub? REL, it's really that simple. I love Rythmik, their bass is deeper than REL but REL is quicker/tighter. You can't have both in the same design so one is not better than other for these reasons you just have to pick the one you need which happens to be REL in this situation. As long as you don't need earth shattering sub 25hz performance the T series is going to match up well. I'd grab a T7i but this T5i is at a great price second hand: www.usaudiomart.com/details/649706684-rel-t5i/ and well under budget given the situation. You can always upgrade later but at this price it'll give you a taste and possibly might be enough.
@@NemoPropaganda Thanks!
As much as the depth of 20hz would be nice, that is lower importance than blending with these speakers and keeping what they do well. I'm also listening to vinyl frequently, and I know the bass isn't going super deep on that. Mostly... when I'm listening to Miles Davis or Led Zeppelin, I know the bass player isn't meant to be that far in the background, and I want to correct that.
I'm very intrigued by the idea of the Rythmik FM8. Wondering how quick those 8" paper drivers would be compared to a REL T7/i
@@cameronlloyd9752 that's hard to say since I've never heard that model but I'm curious too now lol. On paper it looks like it should be pretty damn good for what your goals are and Rythmik does offer an in home trial though it's a bit north of what you had hoped to spend. I say pull the trigger and find out, half of the fun in this hobby is rolling the dice in my opinion and just satisfying our curiosity :).
I can't decide between the PB 2000 Pro and the Rythmik FVX12. What should I do?
oh man that's tough one, I havn't heard the FVX12 yet, I plan to order one soon though. I have on the other hand heard the PB-2000 (non pro version) and actually owned the PC-2000 for about 1 year. The ported 2000 series subs are capable of serious output. If you want maximum output at volume the PB-2000 pro should be more than capable. As I have not heard the FVX12 I cannot comment on it but it does have 150w less but promises better articulation vs the competition.
@@NemoPropaganda Thanks for the info and the reviews you do. The reason I am looking at the metal cone is for the articulation. Don't care too much about the power. The reason for the SVS is the trail and returns. Don't have that with anyone else. Just not a lot of reviews and demo's of the FVX.
Thank you for the kind words. Rythmik also offers an in home trial :). The PC2000 i had was not very articulate nor was the PB-2000. The sb-2000 was more articulate but the Rythmik L12 was more articulate still. I would guess the FVX12 would be more articulate than the PB2000 based on my experience with both companies products so far but that’s really just a guess.
Would anyone have an opinion on how this compares to the SVS SB-1000 Pro? My eventual choice will be for a 3.1 setup for gaming, home theater, and music. I feel like SVS's smartphone application, company rep, and reviews sell it for me, but since I am new to this and really have no experience with subwoofers I figured I'd ask.
both are great subwoofers from great companies but it really is this simple. The L12 is a bigger subwoofer overall so it's going to extend a little lower and the servo tech will give it better midbass. The SVS will be a little cheaper, smaller, and packed with more features. I would pick the SVS for 1 main reason though, the cell phone app lets you save 3 different custom profiles so you can save 1 for music, 1 for gaming, and 1 for theater so you'll always have it sounding it's best without having to fuck around with adjustments for 20 minutes when you want to play a game instead of listen to music. I love both subs but in a mixed system like yours the convenience of the 3 user definable profiles is a quality of life feature thats going to make the entire system more enjoyable :D
Great videos! Is there a way to setup 2-3 subs with each one being for different purpose? Music/movie/game? I like what SVS did with profiles but I don’t love their subs enough.
Hi Nemo! My L12 developed a low electrical buzz coming from the back of it. I have unplugged everything from my equipment and the L12. I still have this noise with only the L12 plugged in. any idea what it could be? thanks
Usually it's the homes electrical but I doubt that's changed recently so most likely something in the plate amp has failed or is starting to fail or fall out of spec. Reach out to Rythmik, even if you are out of warranty this is one product that is worth every penny so even if you have to pay for a new plate amp I think it's worth it.
Yeah I was thinking that might be it also. I don't hear it when I'm listening to music though, thats how subtle it is. I called and texted them this morning but no response back yet. I wonder if I could replace the plate amp if they sent me one. the cost to send me one and shipping there and back would be costly. funny thing they don't show the plate amp on their website, mine is the model HX310
I meant if I had to send it to them and they replace the amp and they sending it back to me would be costly. thanks Nemo
@@johnharris1846 oh my bro if you can't hear it from the listening position I'd just leave it as is. It's not uncommon for there to be some hum from amplifiers when you get up close to them. Dirty AC is usually the cause and Emotiva sells a product called the CMX2+ that can fix that but unless you can hear it from the listening position I wouldn't worry about it.
@@johnharris1846 that's not usually how it's done. The plate amp is usually replaced by the end user and company simply sends you a new plate amplifier.
Which one do you consider the tightest you've ever heard?
are you just curious or are you looking to buy something?
@@NemoPropaganda I'm going to buy, but not right away. There are other things ahead in the to buy list.
@@nearestone hop in the free discord, give us more information, budget, room size, intended use, etc... and we'll help you out the best we can. discord.gg/nemopropaganda
Not sure why sensitivity isn't taken into consideration when you're mentioning "louder because it handles higher RMS." That isn't often the case if you have a lower sensitivity speaker. If you have a 88db 1w/1m speaker with only 250wRMS it'll play as loud in its range as an 85db 1w/1m speaker with 500wRMS. Maybe you could address that in your reviews too?
Sometimes I talk about sensitivity, sometimes I don't, this video is over 1 year old so I don't remember what I said exactly but I did go on to crown that badboy best product of 2020 and it is a subwoofer I continue to recommend constantly to this day.
The main reason I don't cover sensitivity in most of my videos is I don't know the sensitivity of the driver nor it's t/s parameters, nor how the cabinet itself affects all that. Your example only takes the driver into consideration but that same sensitive driver in a cabinet that's too small will actually not play as loud as the less sensitive driver in the ideal cabinet so driver sensitivity on it's own is not the final nor only determining factor. As you can see it gets fairly complex fairly quickly and we haven't even talked about ported boxes yet or if the plate amplifier has a beefy output stage capable of delivering high current during peaks, etc... I simply can't cover everything. I do my best to give provide easy to understand product info and that means I can't cover all tech aspects. Hope this answers your question.
@@NemoPropaganda perfect answer. And yes, with so many tech aspects to cover I imagine it was difficult to narrow it down to the ones you've elected. This was my intro video to your content. It was enjoyable. Thanks for a great reply. You obviously care. It's refreshing. Maybe someday I'll finally be able to pick up some servo woofers (what brought me here) and hear what all the buzz is about. Can't wait. :)
@@Bugglebub honestly thank you, I really do put a lot of effort into responding to all the comments. Since this is your first foray into my work a few things you might want to know: this isn't your typical YT audio channel, I buy a lot of the gear in order to review it, I'm not trying to have this replace my job so I have no financial interest here, though it would be cool if the channel could break even one day, generally I only review products that I'm personally interested in, and lastly if you jump to my Ares2 video that's most likely the way I'll be reviewing gear going forward. Oh double lastly we have a discord server if you want to hang out and shoot the shit with other audio guys discord.gg/dmphfHjv
You know that Rythmik puts all their resources into their product because the website logo doesn't even load. Lol!
This is the funniest comment I've read in a long time, god bless :D
L12 or rel t5x?
If extension down to 20hz is important to you then grab the L12, if your music doesn't get that low and you want a smaller sub with killer sound quality grab the T5X.
You've never done a wharfedale diamond review. I made a few short videos on my channel of my new diamond 12.0 which I will be using for nearfield listening on my desk. I think I might go for dual rel t5x.
@@greyshadow7786 yeah I only review stuff I'm personally curious about.
L12, their electrical servo technology is patented - nothing else like it. REL is nice but it's just standard sealed-box (2nd order) sub technology.
@@scottroberts4551 It's okay if you have a preference for one brand over the other however both brands have the same goal and accomplish it very well. They take slightly different approaches with slightly different results but both are world class sound quality subwoofers. To refer to REL as "standard" is a very unfair statement.
Grate stuff, could you add some details on what settings you used and maybe why ?
I’d rather not as that varies from room to room so it would really just cause more confusion but if you need any help with setup Rythmik is very responsive and very helpful in that regard :). I would offer to help you myself but i no longer have the L12 in my possession as it was on loan from a friend :)
Off brands have Peerless XLS 10” sealed as a stereo pair with miniDSP and Hypex nCore it’s
Awesome tight bass
Want to try a hideaway sub don’t like the looks of these boxes
If you want a great looking sub check out Aperion Bravus subwoofers. Absolutely beautiful, especially in white.
No high level inputs?
High level generally is a downgrade unless you're using a REL. Do you not have line outputs?
@@NemoPropaganda No, I have yet to purchase a system. I've just been watching a lot videos and what I've learned so far is that high level input from the speaker output of your amp is a superior way to do it as the sub is receiving the same signal as the speakers.
Not true at all. Highly circulated misinformation. That statement is only true for REL subwoofers as they are designed that way. Most expensive subs don’t even have high level inputs as they are generally not as good.
@@NemoPropaganda thanks for that info. I'll have to poke around a bit more.😁
@@IRQ1Conflict No problem dude, I'm always around if you have any questions :)
what is the tighest sub you have heard?
Tightest i’ve reviewed is the REL HT-1205.
Think I can get away with 1 L12 in a medium sized room. I know 2 is ideal but i can only afford 1 L12 or 2 SVS SB-1000 Pros (used)
Absolutely, it's still a 12" sub and a very capable one. How much bass is enough is also a very personal question. You might find the single L12 more than adequate. Only one way to find out :)
@@NemoPropaganda Thank you for the response! Got another noob question. I have an IOTAVX. Since I’m not able to set the crossover on the amp, am I not getting the most out of my speakers since my speakers are still trying to reproduce some of the same lower frequencies the sub is? I’ve heard it’s always best if I can free up speakers from doing too much. Not sure if that made sense.
@@Jpanic4 if you have really shitty speakers then yeah removing some of the bass will help them play louder without distortion. I am familiar with this theory but I don't really believe in it. While it sounds more clear at first it also sounds pretty thin and now you are asking the subwoofer to play more midbass which is not really it's job. Let your speakers play full range, integrate the sub around their natural roll off, that's the best setup in my experience.
@@NemoPropaganda haha understood! Have a pair of BRO3 currently. So hopefully it works well with the L12.
Last question! I hope.. This might be more subjective but do you know why there aren’t as many reviews for the L12 out there relative to REL, SVS etc? Is it just a matter of marketing?
@@Jpanic4 The answer is actually very simple, Rythmik is not known for sending review samples to reviewers. Generally if you want a Rythmik subwoofer (even for review) you buy it. Even Shane of the YT channel Sparechange with 70k subscribers paid full price for the pair of F18 that he reviewed. If your next question is why, the answer to that is I don't know for sure but my guess is they are happy with the current size and growth path of the company and there is nothing wrong with that :).
Ported vs sealed is a red herring if you ask me, and driver size isn't as important as cabinet size, notwithstanding obvious differences (18" vs 8"). All I care about is output at a given frequency and you spend money to make it sound good. I'm absolutely cross-shopping the Speedwoofer and this L12, seems this is smaller but more expensive. From what I can surmise they'll have similar CEA output capability and then I'll DSP/tune/room placement for the rest.
It's hard to be sure, I haven't heard the speedwoofer yet but they keep selling out and they don't have any returned units to even send me for review so they must be good enough :)
would Love to have your take on subs like the Cambridge Minx X301 or the Q Acoustics QB12...both are supposedly very good for music too...and similar price to the Rythmik L12. have you had the chance to listen to one or the other?
The Minx has a -6db point of 31hz and the QB12 doesn't specify db so I'll assume it's -6 also of 28hz. That's not low enough of a frequency response to have my interest based on the type of music i listen to so i probably won't check them out personally and i don't think either company would send me a review unit because I'm a tiny channel :) On Paper the Rythmik L12 is in another league compared to these two options. I will admit the QB12 is rather beautiful though.
@@NemoPropaganda hey! thanks much for your response. was very curious as the B&W ASW608 doesn't go that low either, but you like it so much. anyway, your answer is pretty conclusive. it will have to be the Rythmik!
@@themastroiannis the BW actually gets really low, lower than most subs around this price it just can't do it at loud volumes. But the L12 is still the upgrade pick :D Both subs however require very careful and precise setup. Be patient, spend time with it. 1 click on the gain or freq can make all the difference.
@@NemoPropaganda thanks again my friend. you really know a ton about subs. it's a new universe for me as I always used to listen on pure stereo setup. appreciate your insight and taking time to respond to so many of us asking you questions. all the best. cheers!
@@themastroiannis thanks man, yeah i used to be a huge basshead before i was an audiophile but i try and not get too technical in the videos. Just make sure you don't turn the sub up too high, even the best subwoofers will muddy the sound if you drive them too hard. It will ruin the integration.
should I get this or sb-2000 pro for music? I want really low extension but music accuracy is most important
The L12 extends lower than SB2000 Pro and is the more accurate.
The lost art of using notecards.
Power doesn't translate directly to volume as you keep implying! Clearly not an engineer. And you're clearly misunderstanding the bass extension features on the plate amp.
and you spell your own name wrong, clearly not a linguist.
@@NemoPropaganda lmao 😂 grtz sublover
Too bad you can't get them in the EU.
there are services that can help with that but it does raise the price.
$579 in their site
huh???
You're such a MadLad 6:15 yea go your own way brother!
Thank's man, the bachelor life is the only life for me lol
Being married ain’t really as “fun” as people make it out to be
Just to have someone dictate to you how they want you to live your life
I don’t judge people that go that route but unless one lucks out finding someone it’s like walking thru a minefield….. blindfolded….. pitch dark
It’s only a matter of when and not if that things go 💥🔥
Ports do not output real bass. They output bass fog that sort of sounds like real bass, but is out of sync and time delayed. There is no cure. Passive radiators are similarly bad. Always get sealed subwoofers and always use two. Never use just one no matter how low you cross over. You will never get good room coupling and integration with just one subwoofer. It's just not possible. You cannot change the laws of physics.
i really wish i could disagree with you because i love ported subwoofers too but i know in my heart what you say is true. As far as dual subs again you're also right. A single sub can sound good but dual subs is a different experience.
What sub would you recommend for this song?
ua-cam.com/video/wIQQDYaoWpc/v-deo.html
Brooooo that song is super weird and really hard to recommend a sub for because it's essentially fancy beat boxing so I ask myself what is a humans mouth making bass notes in an echo chamber supposed to sound like and the truth is i have no idea :) For what it's worth it sounded just fine on the REL 1205 and Rythmik L12. Both articulated everything well and handled that bass drop 2/3rds in with ease and finesse.