Dado Joint - Is it a Good or Bad Joint?
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2024
- Dado Joint. In this video Rob Cosman reviews the dado joint,its good point and its weaknesses.But then he shows you several methods toimprove the dado joint. If you use dado joints this is a must see video
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I have been watching for a long time. Each of your videos stand alone. I am always impressed at the patience of your teaching. You often reference techniques from previous videos, yet you still present as if it was the first time the technique has been introduced. Very informative. As always, Great Job!!
Great info, Rob~! Can't wait to see the videos of your executing the tenon methods. Thanks much~!
I just did through wedge tenons on a book shelf very satisfying when you plane the joint smooth 👌.
I have completed a red oak bookcase with tapered sliding dovetails. In a reply you encouraged me when I expressed doubts. Thanks.
Thanks Rob, as always you keep me inspired to work wood !
Great video. Thank you. I was waiting for the sliding dovetail and then at the end you announced that will be in another video. So now I’m waiting patiently for that video...
Coming soon!
Thank you for helping me along on my journey into woodworking.
Glad I could help!
Thanks Rob. It's guys like you that make UA-cam great!
Thanks for watching and commenting
Fantastic video, Rob. I learned the strength and utility (as well as the weakness and futility!) of the dado joint in shop class as a kid in the 60’s. I had to work out the fixes for it on my own, as my shop teacher never covered that material. I use dadoes a lot in shop furniture/shelving, You have to reinforce against shear force if you’re going to put heavy loads on your shelves (and with shop shelves you obviously often do!). I never considered the toe-nailing method, but it looks like a strong, fast, and esthetically pleasing solution. As for the beautiful through wedged tenon method, well, my precision with hand tools isn’t quite there yet, but I’ll give it a go soon! Thanks again, looking forward to seeing the episodes on this new series!
The toe nail has been used for ages as the dado solution.
Schrodinger's Dado is when you cut on in a piece of plywood and it is simultaneously running with, and across, the grain. One can never know whether it is a groove or a dado, as it is always in a state of both.
Like the cat?
Nails at an angle. So simple, so effective... Brilliant! :D
Its a very old solution to the problem
I drive 1/4 inch wooden dowel through the dado joint about every two-three inches, looks good and I think very strong, gives about 1+ inches of cross grain connection for each dowel. much like the miller dowel. nice instructional video, thanks!!! 👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks for taking your time to share your knowledge and experience! Have a great day!
My pleasure!
Some very interesting variations on the simple dado. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay healthy.
glad you liked it
I was just in a crux with a bench project and...bingo!!!!! Thank-you Rob!!
I knew that which is why we made this one!
Great teaching video. Thank you Mr Cosman. You can make super strong joints for shelving by gluing quarter round molding into the lower angle of the dado joint and then toenailing it.
Yes that a version of the toe nail method I shared. Thats for giving us a great variation on that.
hey, it's so great just to learn about these joint applications. It's gets you thinking where they can be applied in projects. thanks....lots to think about .....lots to apply!
Glad it was helpful!
I love your videos!!! Thanks so much,,,
👍😉
I remember my uncle repairing a 1790 Queen Anne Secretary many years ago. It had nails driven in middle of the shelf then snipped off and clamped into side. I never thought about nails, but he laughed and said many English furniture makers did this. Another informative video Professor Cos.
Nails, screws, pegs and all manner of methods were used. The idea that dado is a must is a little bit too much.
Yes nails were very common
I've always sized the end grain for glue joints on dados and found that doing so significantly increases the strength of glued end grain. It was a tip I picked up from fine woodworking magazine using a 1:1 ratio of wood glue and water to seal the end grain before glue-ups to give the glue in the dado joint something more substantial to bond to.
Yes seizing the joint first does help in end grain situations , but it still a weak glue joint
Very nice. A lot of good information in there.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I look forward to the build video on the wedged tenon joint. I plan to use them on a night stand project soon.
Coming soon
Excellent! you've answered many of the aspects I've wondered about on Dado's and a few more.
One thing I'd like to know more about is Tapered Sliding Dovetails. They seem to have the advantage of sliding together easier and locking up on the last few inches. Seems like they'd be good for assembly on site. I can't quite figure out the math but I bet you have a few ways to work these out.
A regular sliding dovetail is much easire to make. the tapered is a more difficult joint
Outstanding!! 👍🏻👍🏻
Glad you liked it!
Well Rob, this is a joint Norm would be proud of ! Lol one of his go to joints.
Thank you And Thank you for sharing
You are so welcome
Plus sliding tapered dovetail, my favorite for longer joints.
I am not a fav of sliding tapered for long joints
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Thanks for the video! Any chance you could explain this more in detail in the sliding dovetail follow up?
Short drive from Elgin Ontario... Keep teaching us...
Even closer from Cornwall.
You got it!
Thank you for making this video. Seems EVERYBODY on youtube has a domino! : ) Question for you. What about wood movement? I am working on a solid wood credenza that is more like an oversized bookshelf. One long horizontal support (shelf) in a stopped dado with two vertical supports below the shelf attached to the bottom and two above the shelf at different spots attached to the top. My understanding is that I could use glue and dowels on the ends of the large horizontal support, but need to accommodate for wood movement in the vertical supports. Is this correct? Do dadoes in a large shelf attached to the sides of a carcass run the risk of causing the sides to split due to inhibited wood movement? Thank you.
So much to learn here. Thanks as ever for your tuition. A quick question about the mortice and tenon options. Is it necessary to put a shoulder on the shelf part? Couldn't the part just fit straight into the mortice?
Yes it could
Very good video. Never knew the "why" for the stepped dowels.
What about the sliding dovetail ? the Shakers used them on their furniture. They can be made by hand with suitable planes or with a router. They can be tapered from front to back to give extra security and used without adhesive to allow movement if both parts do not have grain in same direction.
You don’t need a specialty plane to make a sliding dovetail or tapered sliding dovetail, and there are several good videos here on UA-cam demonstrating this. A shop-made jig for sawing your slot (“pin board”) does make it a bit easier, I admit, but an expensive and hard-to-find dedicated sliding dovetail plane is not necessary.
I will have a video upsoon on sliding dovetails and how I make them with just common tools
Thank you. I don't see you often go over mistakes. But any chance you can add a few tips on how to fix them when it happens? like for example if a toe nail blows out and goes through the back etc.
Great suggestion!
Hi Rob. Thanks for showing us these great details. I asked this before on another video but don’t think you saw that. I was wondering why you don’t use teak often. Is it because teak is rare/ expensive in North America? Here in India we use teak almost exclusively along with Sheesham (Indian rosewood). What is your opinion of these two types of wood as a woodworker.
teak is great. Very expensive and hard to get in North America.
How about a dovetailed dado? You'd have to push it inside from the front side, but it anchors itself. Helluva work and I know my abilities to screw it up (in a metaphorical way), but wouldn't that work too? Or isn't the endgrain strong enough?
Partial sliding dovetail in the front of the case, The back holds the rear together.
Interesting with the nails. Known about them from my first tree house with my dad and later for framing studs etc but never considered this for furniture. Rob, what do you think about only nailing one side? From the bottom on lower shelves and from the top on upper shelves for instance so you wouldn't see the holes. Thanks for another good vid. I know these take time and thanks Luther.
Well you really should do both sides as the "X" that forms is really strong
Miller dowels with contrasting wood is a cheat on through wedge and a good alternative for things made for kids. A whole lot less time invested so when things get dinged up it's a little easier to accept.
It all depends on your skill level and what you are making the furniture for.
Is Ash good for wood turning?
I love the wedged M&T dado. However, the shoulder seems wholly unnecessary. I guess it depends on how clean you can cut the edge so it seats evenly.,
You areexactl;ey correct
I need some QUALITY tools Rob.... Hope NB opens soon.. just a short d
we have our fingers crossed
When a master woodworker is thinking out loud, it is WORTH listening. Options are an intellectual delight, a perfect marriage of the mental and physical. Thank you from Grantsville (UT) to Grand Bay (NB).
you bet
Rob, Xclnt! Thank you.
Thanks for watching
@@RobCosmanWoodworking always worthwhile!
Looking forward to the sliding dovetail video!
Coming soon
Wow - some options that seriously raise the bar, for strength and quality. I'm thinking that a sliding dovetail might be the best of all worlds - strong, quick, invisible - compared to your other options. I guess may be easy enough with a router. I wonder there's a hand tool option?!
You can cut sliding dovetails by hand - one way is to cut the dado and then chisel out the undercut either freehand (easier than it seems like it would be) or with an angled pairing block and use a router plane to smooth the bottom. Seems like a lot of work, but it's actually pretty quick (for hand tool work - obviously not as quick as a powered router).
Absolutely Video coming out soon
I think a sliding dovetail is easier and quicker, yes the setup takes time but usually you need a lot of these at once.
Its one of the ways to make a good dado. I have a video coming out on it soon
How long do you think a screwed reenforced dado will last in solid wood furniture?
The lifetime of the furniture
Could you just turn the shelf 90 degrees so long grain is glued? Assuming the shelf isn’t really long where weakness could be experienced in the center.
what is the name of that type of countersink?
Its just a noname countersink with a tapered bit. I got it from Woodcraft I think
Молодец
thanks for watching and commenting
What about a sliding dovetail? Great video, thanks!
He noted at the end that will be in another video
@@maxomo1 cool, didn't notice that. Thanks.
Yoel, I have started using sliding dovetails in the past few months in several projects, and I really like them. They are a lot easier to make than I thought they would be, and there are some really good videos on UA-cam showing you how to do it. I cant wait to see Rob’s take on it now. The sliding dovetail is stronger than the dado joint, and the look of it really adds something to the visual appeal of a piece.
@@JamesWilliams-en3os yep, I agree, I just wanted to see Rob's take on it 😊
I keep shouting in my head "What about a sliding dovetail!" 😁
In its simplest form, not the best joint for the reasons Rob gives. Having said that, it’s what I would call a time/cost effective joint.
But a very usefuljoint that I use a lot. You just have to understand it and know what application and how to strengthen it
A small point: dados should not provide structure for a cabinet. Structural integrity should be provided by the joints between the top and bottom boards and the side boards. Those joints should be rigid, e.g., dovetails, sliding dovetails, lock miter. For that matter, shelf joints can be sliding dovetails, which are nearly as fast and easy to cut on a tablesaw as dados, but are much stronger. Just a thought, not a criticism of dados in their proper places.
I did not get what you were saying on the wedge. The rest of the video was great.
we will make a video soon on how to do the wedge
My nail gun shoots nails straight but they curve in the woods lol
well thats probably a good thing when toe nailing a dado
Can you show how to make a dado with hand tools?
yes that video is on th eto do list
Sliding dovetail if it needs to be strong otherwise a 1/4 inch back panel and or with face trim ties it all together...what you showed are exercises in manual labor informative but will drive some people to drink...😬 stay safe up there...BTW has there been any sightings of officer Dudley-Do-Right lately...is he out of rehab...hope so...😶
Screwing in from th eback panel is also a good method but typically not as strong as the solutions I showed since the back panel are thin and themselves must float if made of solide woods so there can be issues with that method
I can attest to the strength of toe nailed Brad's. When I first started woodworking, I found a set of old solid maple cabinets that I reclaimed for materials. Between the glue and brads, it was extremely difficult to take apart
Always stay the length of the screw in from the end.
the easiest way the strengthen that joint would be to rotate the board 90 degrees. Then you have long grain against long grain
Back to cross grain construction, no can do.
I don't use it, but, like Garfield and lasagne, friends told me there is nothing like a bad joint
I like Garfield!!!!!
would a sliding dove tail be appropriate here?
Just saw that he mentioned this at the end of the video. I'll wait for that
video coming soon
Great guide, but I thought it is called Dodo en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo 🦤
Dovetail the entire length of the joint would be strongest, wouldn't it?
of course
Rob, What do you think about recent tools - Lamello biscuits or Festool domino tenons as a complete replacement for dado joints… simply make sure the case boards are square. Seems extremely simple.
Dados rock. Get your grains right
I kept banging my head; where’s the sliding dovetail. A router a dovetail bit and presto the strongest joint of all of
them.
Then again a brad nail the sucker thru the face. Blamo done.
Pocket screws!😂
Rob - How do you feel about using cut nails?
It is a good joint but there seems to be an over obsession with using it.
All joints need to be used when that is the joint called for. This is what its important to learn lots of joints so you can use the correct joint for a given situation
Dare I say pocket screws
Yes that would be the same as toe nailing.....I should have included that solution in the vidoe. Thanks for pointing it out
Have you considered actually showing these different options/techniques instead of just marking and talking?
All in time. Just finished filming the next video on three ways to cut a dado. Should be out Tuesday. Patience is a virtue.
Anxious to see your approach to a sliding dovetail, especially since I've just recently had a go at them. Problem with a sliding dovetail is they lock up if there is any length to them. To get around this I cut slots both in the dado and board held in the dado with one slot being tapered. I then produced dovetail splines using a butterfly bit and followed up tapering one side of the spline. It worked!
Yes you are correct the longer the sliding dado the more friction, thats why the tapered sliding dovetail was invented