kh3s english translation pushing the heterosexual agenda
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- ‼️ CONTAINS KH3 SPOILERS ‼️
alternate title: kh3s english translation being aggressively heterosexual for two and a half minutes
finished this a while back and soriku week 2022s day 6 prompt 𝗻𝗼 𝘀𝘂𝗿𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗲𝗿! (fix-it) has motivated me to finally post it (even tho it might not technically fit the prompt lol)
♡ 𝗮𝗹𝗹 𝗳𝗼𝗼𝘁𝗮𝗴𝗲 𝘁𝗮𝗸𝗲𝗻 𝗳𝗿𝗼𝗺 𝗸𝗵-𝘃𝗶𝗱𝘀 (kh-vids.net/pa...)
♡ 𝘀𝗼𝘂𝗿𝗰𝗲 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗮𝘀 𝗰𝗼𝗻𝘃𝗼 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝗮𝗻𝗻𝗮/𝗿𝗶𝗸𝘂𝘀 𝘀𝗮𝗰𝗿𝗶𝗳𝗶𝗰𝗲/𝗻𝗮𝗺𝗲𝗹𝗲𝘀𝘀 𝘀𝘁𝗮𝗿 𝗰𝗼𝗻𝘃𝗲𝗿𝘀𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻: docs.google.co... (the sleeping realm theory)
♡ 𝘀𝗼𝘂𝗿𝗰𝗲 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘁𝗼𝘆 𝗯𝗼𝘅 𝘀𝗰𝗲𝗻𝗲: docs.google.co... ( / scherzodelcuore )
the rest of the translations were found in various places across the internet, and i have to give MASSIVE thanks to my friend delikit ( / disco-agidyne ) for retranslationing/double-checking them for me to make sure theyre as accurate as possible
(SENA stands for square enix north america in case u didnt know)
ADDENTUM:
after seeing steams tags on this post on tumblr and a brief discussion with delikit, i have added a note in the captions saying that in context, hercs line at the beginning can also be translated as "Besides, it's an awfully empty feeling to be separated from 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗽𝗲𝗿𝘀𝗼𝗻 𝘄𝗵𝗼'𝘀 𝗺𝗼𝘀𝘁 𝗽𝗿𝗲𝗰𝗶𝗼𝘂𝘀 𝘁𝗼 𝘆𝗼𝘂." its the same phrasing mickey and riku use immediately afterward. so turn on cc to see it!
ADDENTUM:
after seeing steams tags on this post on tumblr and a brief discussion with delikit, i have added a note in the captions saying that in context, hercs line at the beginning can also be translated as "Besides, it's an awfully empty feeling to be separated from 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗽𝗲𝗿𝘀𝗼𝗻 𝘄𝗵𝗼'𝘀 𝗺𝗼𝘀𝘁 𝗽𝗿𝗲𝗰𝗶𝗼𝘂𝘀 𝘁𝗼 𝘆𝗼𝘂." its the same phrasing mickey and riku use immediately afterward. so turn on cc to see it!
God the ‘I feel strong with you Kairi’ annoys me so much, like they wanted to make it REALLY obvious this is supposed to be a romantic moment when the original line in Japanese is so much better and is a genuine compliment of Kairi’s strength. The translation just makes it sound like Sora is making it all about him. I hope going forward they translate it better and don’t go out of their way to make the dialogue worse
#soriku #justiceforkairi
@JustinW332 IIRC, the translation is as bad as it is because of time constraints, as in Nomura literally wasn't able to put in the time to proofread the English localization before the game's release. Hopefully KH4 does a better job with the translation, since it seems like it won't be stuck in development hell like KH3 was
@@namelesscompadre4095 Nahhhh they knew what they were doing fam.🤷🏿♀️ got everything else right, but not these scenes specifically? Too consistent, too suspicious. Good looking out though.
I hate the I feel strong with you Kairi line too
You SoRiku fans are fucking insufferable 😂
im genuinely so sad that they mistranslated so much, in the other games it was even passable even if annoying... but i just cant get over sora's speech and the "kairi i feel strong with you", its literally throwing BOTH sora and kairis characters on the garbage ... i don't understand
Let's say Sora and Riku aren't in love (Personally I think they are lol) But let's say they aren't... Friendship is just as beautiful and important to us, so why change it??? I hate seeing original messages or even simple dialogue changes to a story. I want to hear, see, and read the original and intended message/story. I want to truly understand and appreciate it.
kh3 annoys me so much, for a variety of different reasons. but the erasure of sora and riku’s relationship is a big point of contention. sokai feels like an awkward middle school relationship that only lasts a week. i hated how much focus it got in 3 because it felt so nothing. sora and riku have such a complex and beautiful relationship and seeing it basically get tossed away in 3…not fun!
I also hate how a lot of game reviewers act as though Kairi is Sora's girlfriend.
See also the video "Riku is Gay (and why it matters)"
But for real after seeing this and going down this rabbit hole, I really don't see how I can watch the dub for the next Kingdom Hearts game, if a fansub exists that's more accurate.
Some things make sense how mistakes could be made. And some lines are just straight up bad choices.
"You dont believe that" is such an awkward line.
"I believe in you" and "don't give up" are heteronormative anyway! Like this is just bad work imo.
i still dont understand why they chose to change some of these scenes... like kairi sounds desperate to share the fruit, riku's personal growth is thrown in the garbage, sora's speech at the end is so .. ugh...
also if soriku ever happens, what will they do? will they censor the whole game? lol
IKR like im pretty sure disney wont let it happen T.T
Neehh
Disney will put it in the shadow realm
I mean realm of darkness.
It seems soriku isn't canon anymore because of Disney retconing everything
They literally did though. With KH2, a lot was censored in the west from Xigbar's arrow guns to the enemies of POTC. The Hydra also didn't bleed in the NA version of the game. They would absolutely cut out all the gay
I don't really get why stuff coming into the U.S. has to be censored? Like, normally Disney are the ones putting LGBT characters in their films, but only in really small roles so they can be edited out for the foreign release. And while the U.S. may not be the most accepting country in the world (I genuinely don't know), it's certainly not the worst, either. So why foreign media would be censored in the English dub when normally they have to do the opposite, just, baffles my mind!
@@hunterlawrence3573the NA release of Japanese games censoring queer characters has been happening since the 90s. I mean, Birdo is pretty clearly supposed to be trans in the Japanese, but in the NA version they totally scrapped that whole aspect of Birdo’s character. There’s a whole episode of Game Theory about it, it’s one of their earliest theories.
My guess? Producers think gamers are all cis straight white men. Even after games like Undertale and Horizon: Zero Dawn got really big, it’s still ingrained in their minds. #sorikucanonactually
Gotta love the “I feel strong with you, Kairi” line being both gay-erasure AND sexist!
I mean KH1, Chain of Memories, and KH3 make it abundantly clear that Sora loves Kairi.
As a big gay faggot myself, I don't see why people can't just accept the fact that Sora loves Riku, just not in a homosexual way?
growing up is realising that sokai was there in kh1, ( and kidna COM ) but then was just threw up because of kairi lacking has a character and literatly was almost to 0 arc in the entire franshise ( like the fact that we had to wait kh3 for her to actually apear on the battlefield and isnt even playable is sad ) and replaced by soriku a much more effective duo because of the storyline and the emotions that they share to each other ( and that riku is literatly a simp you cant change my mind ) to then at kh3 endgame just randomly bringing back sokai even tho ( i think ) thats literatly their first interaction has a duo of the entire game and even if we dont belive in soriku that is still very underwhelming that it was shown that he care way more abt riku than kairi to then have this scene with her who at this point i forgot she was a character💀
literally begging for the next game to include cut-scenes with the CORRECTED/ACCURATE AND VOICE-ACTED TRANSLATIONS. I don't care if it causes initial confusion and Nomura has release a statement explaining why it had to happen i NEED it, the series needs it ,or else the story isn't making sense/hitting as hard, and people already complain enough sometimes that Kingdom hearts makes no sense.
nomura-san plzzz (TAT)
cant wait for soriku to become endgame and have fanboys complain that it 'came out of nowhere' bc they dont know about the mistranslations (esp of com and the whole 'aitsu' thing) :')
Can’t wait for the localization team to be confronted with the inevitable makeout scene in KH4 🙄 /j (maybe)
The one thing looking back at KH3 in general and being an English speaker. It was disappointing to learn and find out about the mistranslation s, I absolutely don’t hate the people who did it especially since what I heard the translation was rushed and Nomura wasn’t that involved like the past entries were. But what really gets me is the fact that the changes decontextualize the original vision and the scene dosen’t have much of an impact.
The line were Riku said “Sora, I believe in you” was a lot more impactful as the meaning makes the scene and the whole sacrifice such an important plot point but because of it’s homosexual implications which is a no no for the majority of gaming companies in America. It was changed which ruined the plot point which was meant to be a important thing. Even if it’s just the potential romance between Sora and Riku that was censored, the dialogue that dosen’t even allude that much towards it like the Kairi scenes. It’s so disappointing that it was huge a big effect that I dint think half of the fans even know because they don’t look into the Japanese translations.
1:20 I saw someone interpreting this translated scene as Kairi saying that even if they aren't together romantically, she wants to stay friends with him forever, and that's a much better interpretation than whatever the translators were probably trying to go for.
@@martinat3884 not to be presumptuous but uhhhh if this is the post youre talking about thefreshprinceofjunes.tumblr.com/post/707559934934515712/the-more-i-rewatch-the-scene-with-sora-and-kairi then thats mine. im thefreshprinceofjunes on tumblr lol
@@mikotoh It was actually a comment on the 6 hour Riku is gay video, but that post is a very strong analysis too!
@@martinat3884 ooh gotcha. one day ill watch that video... one day...
haha, ty! a couple times now on my videos ive had people mention my tumblr posts without knowing its me, so i got a bit ahead of myself 😅
@@martinat3884 heres a reblog of mine with some elaboration if youre interested: thefreshprinceofjunes.tumblr.com/post/708290625189134336/xyrnys-thefreshprinceofjunes-the-more-i-rewatch
If KH4 confirms SoRiku and fans get mad cause “it came out of nowhere!” “But sokai is canon!” I’ll have to laugh. Yeah the translation team really seemed to be trying to make things more romantic sounding than the Japanese, but a lot of it can still easily be read as platonic. The whole “I feel strong with you Kairi” line though. Like let Kairi have her moment and be recognized for her own strength. *sigh* Here’s hoping kh4 won’t mess things up so bad.
I personally, think Sokai and soRiku will never be canon cause Nomura has constantly stated friendship as the focus.
If anything happens it will be extremely subtle and not at all significant. 🤷🏾♀️ Also disney.
@@ljeans531 Disney sucks.
@@ljeans531 Ok, I have to disagree on the Disney thing. Why?
Luz Noceda and Amity Blight.
@@familytablet6453 Bruhhhh, that show got CANCELED
@@ljeans531 Yeah, but it A) wasn't from homophobia and B) was pitched with Lumity in mind from the VERY BEGINNING
Honestly, I worry that these translations may prevent Nomura from telling the story that he wants to. Like, what if he WANTS a Soriku ending, but now he thinks "I can't tell that ending because the English fans will call it a forced retcon"
Hasn't stopped him before. People called nobodies growing hearts a forced retcon.
He doesn't. It's Japanese, they are a very traditional lot.
@@stangerr0267 Hasn't stopped several other artists for making anime and manga that's pro-LGBT.
@@kumoraifox6357
Of course not because there's always a market. But for a wide reaching video game primarily designed for younger individuals?
@@stangerr0267 lgbt+ stories are fine for younger individuals
Wow as a heterosexual fan of the franchise this sucks this really really sucks....
like, the censoring sucks? or my video sucks? cuz i hope its the former 😅
@@mikotoh the censoring sucks. In case this was not obvious.
Louder for the people in the back!!
Ok going forward after i ginished a kh game i will watch the japanese cutscenes with Correctet Translations
no one try to make a video fix for Chain of Memories & its chronic gendering problem: in that way lies madness
Aitsu
Oh that one is a whole pronoun conundrum.
Sometimes I don't understand how Western translators can do this. In Taiwan, a translator added localized jokes and internet meme in Everything Everywhere All At Once and the backslash was so great that the publisher had to release another theatre version.
Here's hoping there's more videos like this!
I am fully onboard the Soriku ship but I don't agree that Donald's "Very good-looking, huh." is Donald pointing out Sora's indirect admission of Riku's good looks.
EN: Say, Riku would make a great action figure!
JP: [Yozora's] more similar to Riku than Sora, isn't he?
EN: Must be him!
JP: [Riku is] cool, huh?
Donald is moreso saying that Riku fits the bill better as the Yozora look-alike because in Donald's opinion, Riku is cool, unlike Sora.
His statement is moreso directed at Goofy than Sora.
go read the document linked in the description for my reasoning as to why i included that translation (specifically, the use of 'guapo' for the spanish translation, and 'shuài' for the chinese one)
Of course 20 years of development wasted cause of Disney's mistranslations
I don't think Soriku is possible anymore since everything is being retconned by KH3.
Some of thèse im ok with like the last one. Most of the time the english dub is good but ther ar muddled scenes that ruin the experience and make it over complicatet
I think it was less about “no homo” and more trying to sell us harder of Sora and Kairi’s relationship. Espically with how shafted she is in the series, the game really needed to sell us that Sora is willing to die for this girl
trying harder to sell sokai falls under 'no homo' to me LOL
I mean, forcing a het ship just so you can deny there is any gay subtext to the two male best friends does scream very much of "no homo" to me.
@@VidiaReePhoenixBut where are you getting that it was done just so they could deny any gay subtext from? For all we know someone on translation team is just a really big Sokai shipper, or (far more likely) so steeped in heteronormativity they just assumed that Sokai is supposed to be the canon ship despite evidence to the contrary and decided to push it more in the English dub. They still should have stuck closer to the original meaning, but that’s very different from trying to outright censor gay relationships.
@@hunterlawrence3573 Because it is not just Riku and Sora's dialogue they change. They also go through the efforts of reanimating the faces of Saïx and Eraqus so they aren't smiling when with their male friends. For example, there is a point during the tower scene where Saïx is smiling warmly at Axel. It was replaced with him scowling instead. When Eraqus takes Xehanort up to keyblade heaven, he gives him a big smile. Instead, it was reanimated so that you can barely tell he is smiling.
Assuming Sokai subtext due to heteronormativity is one thing, but completely reanimating character faces is another. This can't even be passed off as lip-sync either because the Eraqus scene is without voice lines.
With the exception of Xehanort's final monologue (where he says he wants a "world of light" instead of a blank slate with no light or darkness), just about every poor translation in KH3 was directly tied to minimizing the male relationships in the game while prompting up the male/female ones. This minimizing has been completely consistent throughout every single game. It is hard to imagine at this point that it is accidental especially in moments like when Riku's lines are directly quoting Hercules calling Meg "his most previous person." They retranslate Hercules' line to "the person I love most" and Riku to "the things that matter" despite saying the exact same thing verbatim. Either they are incompetent at their jobs and didn't know these were the same lines or they did know, and then you have to question why the male/female was made more romantic while the male/male was completely gutted altogether.
Knowing Disney's track record (like editing out gay scenes and black people from their movies to make it more "palatable" to foreign audiences like China), I don't feel like giving them the benefit of the doubt.
@@VidiaReePhoenix Admittedly, I didn’t know about the face reanimating thing. That’s is pretty weird.
But ignoring that, most of the mistranslations could be censoring, but they could also just be mistranslations. There are some things in the game that just plain don’t make sense in the English version. Like the whole “Aqua, she’s like Sora” “What!?” “No no no no, STRONG like Sora,” exchange. So it’s possible the Meg/Hercules thing could’ve been a case like that. Not guaranteed, maybe not even all that likely, but possible. There’s also the whole thing about the “I believe in you” getting changed to “You don’t believe that.” I’ve heard some people call this censoring, saying that the original is so much gayer. I really don’t see that, I think both the original and the English sound fine in the original scene. The problem is when they’re calling back to it later, then “he told me he believed in me,” becomes “he told me I wouldn’t” which just sounds way clunkier. With how off it sounds to English ears and how it doesn’t really change the emotional impact any, it’s hard to say that was anything other than a mistake. So could it be intentional censoring? Maybe, but I can’t really find a reason why they would do this, so I’m going to treat with a grain of salt until we get actual confirmation.
As for Disney, I dislike the company as much as anyone else. But they’re usually the ones trying to put LGBT representation into the domestic versions, but only in small roles that can be removed for the foreign release. So would they really want to censor something domestically when it was already gay overseas? Especially since the English version would mainly be for America, the U.K, Australia and Canada. Not the homophobic countries they’re usually censoring their stuff for. I don’t know. But I know to take everything I read with a grain of salt.
I believe in sorikai policule.
yes if riku->sora
they were so fake for this honestly
im assuming you mean the translators?
@@mikotohhaha yes lol sorry for the confusion
Thank you for your service
I went to check if Donald actually called Riku good looking... he actually said cool, but I'll take it lol.
Great video!
... huh? the essay i listed as a source in the description pretty clearly breaks down what donald said. i havent read it all completely, but i think the gist of it is that he uses the same phrasing sora used to say yozora was good looking.
@@mikotoh I didn't check the link, I just looked up the Japanese video and listened to/read that. :) He may well be saying the same thing that Sora said; I wasn't listening to that part.
ETA: Just to clarify, what he says (格好いい) *could* be read as good looking, but it almost always means cool. It means 'good looking' more in the sense of '[it] looks good'.
@isaac I don't think so, though fair enough if you do! 'Riku looks cool' seems a pretty normal thing to say, imo. And the word they used is a very common one in Japanese too.
ah. yeah 'kakkōii' is a term used to describe ppl someone with like a 'cool aire'- so not so sus for Sora to use it to describe Riku.
If anything, Donald is teasing Sora about being less cool than Riku 😂 And ironically, the English dub having Sora say "good looking" is more sus.
Now, if Sora had called him an "ikeman" (meaning 'handsome man') that would have been very telling 👀
@@purraultpurralta5612 Yeah, mte. :) There are definitely some line changes that went the other way, but this one isn't one of them.