The problem is, if Luffy wins then Kizaru would be called weaker than the Yonko. And if Kizaru somehow wins people will claim that it is Luffy that is weaker than the Yonko. People already have their biased view set in stone.
Luffy is technically weaker than the previous generation of Yonko. It took like ma gazillion people pulling out their best moves for Kaido to FINALLY get his L. A win is a win, Luffy beat Kaido, but it's not like it was a true 1v1
@phenomenonnarutokun Luffy also spent most of the battle at a handicap not having known ACoC and later Gear 5, meanwhile he was getting absolutely starched by Kaido's ACoC the whole time and even was put on death's door. Kaido also has absolutely cracked durability in his favor. I think battle damage was way closer between the two than people want to give credit, if not straight up Luffy having it worse.
@@phenomenonnarutokun the counter Argument to that is that Luffy Still did like 80% of the Damage and was still evolving mid battle. After reaching Gear 5 i don't think Kaido could beat him so it's all about whether or not he can outlast the timer. And Luffy seems like he's increased the amount of time he can spent in that form
@@phenomenonnarutokun That was the luffy while fighting kaido. The luffy right now is already far stronger than the luffy who was fighting Kaido. Hence you can say that the luffy which is kizaru is fighting is already as strong as Kaido. If you think luffy is still as strong as the luffy before he defeated kaido, you're underestimating luffy's progression. They were literally ready to throw hands with greenbull while still recovering. After luffy recovered from the fight he already as strong as kaido. You need to get shanks atleast to stop luffy rn.
What's funny is that in universe both sides are convinced of their arguments even more so than the most die hard fans. Kaido pulled up to Marineford basically by himself, and Kizaru asked if they wanted him to go take out Big Mom and Kaido, and I don't think I've ever met someone who would claim that either of those two would have actually stood a chance at success.
I think its fair to say that from a storytelling perspective it would make no sense for Oda to have waited so long for the Admirals to play a bigger role only to have them be irrelevant directly after.
Thank you...i second this. There are 5 admirals we've seen and we've barely seen any of them fight seriously at all. It would be kinda odd for Oda to just have them sell and job to their opponents at this point, throwing out over a decades worth of build up.
Because two of the admirals will be fought by Sanji and Zoro Akainu seems to scale above the others admirals or the original trio from the golden pirate age are more relative to each other Aokiji’s fruit is inferior to magma yet he still fought Akainu for 10 days, Jinbei stating they were comparable in power
@@aceclover758 Not to mention that we now know that Kuzan was trained by Garp who was Rodgers rival. Wouldn't surprise me if the mentors of Akainu and Kizaru also were legendary. Would make sense for them to be the succesors of the the strongest Marines just like the Strawhats are to the Rodger pirates. That would also mean that we still have ways to go until the real fight against them cause as of now I only see Luffy being able to fight and defeat them.
I've always seen the Yonko as slightly stronger, and I think its likely that given the point in this video, advanced conquerers haki will be a deciding factor. Luffy vs Kizaru is actually the perfect time to show it too. Thematically Kizaru is a self described 'cog in the machine', a lackey, a subordinate, whereas Luffy is a captain, and wants to be a King of sorts. Conquerers haki is an ability possessed by leaders, and the leader is by definition, above a subordinate. Furthermore I think its interesting that all of the admirals names are based on animals (eg: Kizaru translates to 'Yellow Monkey') and we know that conquerers haki can be used to tame animals. I can see this fight being about showing the difference between a king and a subordinate. Also, whilst I know that this is more to do with armament, haki was introduced as a counter to logia powers. However I don't think that this definitively means that haki is better than devil fruits in all scenarios. If anything, I think its likely that Luffy will show us the importance of mastering both. If we assume devil fruits are made from and embody dreams as has been hinted at previously, and if we understand that Haki is in some respect a persons willpower converted into energy, then Luffy will need both. Luffy will be the end of the story become pirate king by using his devil fruit abilities, which represent the power of peoples dreams, combined with his haki, which represents the willpower to act on and carry out those dreams.
Kat, Zoro, Rayleigh all have King’s Haki and are subordinates. Yes Zoro is going for Mihawk’s title, yet he still need the strength of a king to complete with Mihawk as the strongest swordsman. Rayleigh has a lot of things in common with Zoro as Luffy does with Roger so we can infer that Ray had the strength or at least the strength of Mihawk in his prime. Kat you could make an argument, but it’s known that he was stronger than Luffy at the time. It took a lot for Luffy to be see as his equal by Kat. Also in a data book it’s mentioned how Luffy disliked how he won that fight. I think all the Admirals have King’s Haki, especially the original three. Sengoku and Garp have it, Garp was offered the position while Sengoku accepted it along with a promotion to be the Fleet Admiral. If Sengoku was has it could be a Admiral and Fleet Admiral why can’t the current Admirals and current Fleet Admiral have it?
I read a lot of stories. I think it's pretty much common sense that every top tier fighters at the level of yonkos and admirals are all advance conquerer Haki user. At least it is common sense to me. Doflamingo has conqueror even tho he's so afraid of kaido and was willing to be under kaido, Rayleigh has too even though he's serving under Roger.
This haki argument is kind of stupid because 4/5 admirals have a real good chance for Acoc and we've literally seen an Admiral box Garp (Don't start with the "he wasn't using Acoc argument" because although they are touching, Acoc touching is extremely inconsistent, Garp said he wasn't holding back and there was black lightning which doesn't always mean Acoc but most of the time it does.)
@@nicholasalexander9866 All three of those subordinates were clearly represented as exceptions to the rule. Katakuri's drive to be a "king" doesn't interfere with his subordination to Big Mom, because what he seeks is being the unbeatable older brother to all of his siblings. Zoro's drive to be a "king" is all about being the world's greatest swordsman, not being Pirate King, so it's not a conflict of interests with Luffy. And much character development/exploration has been given to his relationship with Luffy, and how he's only willing to follow him because he's a competent leader who will not stifle Zoro (or any of the crew's) growth, but rather enable his(/their) growth. Raleigh has the least insight to his character given, but we can assume it's similar to Zoro's. The fact that he's a Conqueror is supposed to drive home how exceptional Roger is for being able to lead him despite that unruly personality. Both Roger and Luffy stand above others specifically because they are able to recruit and command other Conquerors, whereas Katakuri was just born into being Big Mom's subordinate lol.
lol because the world government is stacked.. As he said himself they didn’t disband the warlords because they found them useless they did it because they came up with something else that they think could deal with us. Hence going after the ancient weapons help guarantee them a leverage over such forces.
@@MrBassem95 Y’all just arguing from extremist view points. Nobody said anything about dog walk. Lol the warlords were a 3 great power that mattered hence by they replaced them with a more functioning loyal army with insane upgrades to some of them. Also the seraphim’s wasn’t the only thing. They have entire department that’s what SSG is
@@FireAngelChristhe warlords and the SSG Pacifista are there to deal with the commanders not the Yonko. The Emperor has an entire crew. You’re telling me that Kizaru +4 seraphim+ Pacifista and vice admirals can’t outright stalemate a Yonko crew or at least make it extremely hard to beat?
@@MrBassem95 Why are you making up things I never said. Like the dog walking the admirals stand point. That’s some extremist views nobody is arguing. The fandom argues as if everyone argues in extremes. The warlords now replaced by the ssg are a 3rd great power on their own. They work to aide the marine head quarter. They aren’t just there to deal with the Yonko commanders. That’s not stated anywhere in the story. The 4 Yonko do not work together as an until either. They fight among each other. It’s like people forget the entire navy headquarters is part of the 3 great power. White beard had the largest fleet the government have more man power than 1 Yonko crew. They simple have more bodies to throw at them. Hence why the Yonko themselves have to be that powerful as a deciding factor. Kizaru +4 seraphim + pacifists & vice admirals with marine soldiers is further adding to my point.
I really just feel like we haven't had enough opportunities to see the Admirals go all out individually. It's easy to say the Yonko are stronger because we get more time with them, or these epic one shot moments like Shanks and Kid or Kaido's introduction when he jumps off the sky island.
@janned356 Yeah, for sure, I'm putting them their because it only makes since with the importance they have to the story and for it make since for them to be above the Navy, Holy Knights, etc. It could also be the case of people/us completely underrating Sabo and could be potentially at Admiral or higher level. This could also reaffirm that Dragon is as powerful as his Bounty & Bloodline suggests and is at the level of Rocks, Roger, Whitebeard, Garp, and maybe even a Tier higher between them and Imu.
@@Originul_Yonko was built as tanks to take out anyone in their way, especially to get to the One Piece. The WG needs admirals, warlords, fleets, giants, the holy knights, and possibly the Gorosei to stop one Yonko. As much as I like the admirals to be strong, especially Akainu which he possibly could be Yonko level, we should’ve known since the Marineford arc that you need the whole Government (minus Imu, Holy Knights, and Gorosei) to stop an old, dying Whitebeard.
I've always believed that Yonkou are stronger than admirals, but not by a landslide as some people think. But we have to keep an open mind and realize as the story goes on, with most of the OG Yonkou taken out of the picture, there's a strong probability the admirals will look just as impressive as the Yonkou or perhaps even better because the narrative will demand it. It's why all these characters such as Shanks, Mihawk and Dragon are literally getting buffed as the story goes on. Consistent power-scaling is important for a series to have but what's more important to Oda is narrative and Oda will make a character as strong as they need to be when he needs them to be.
Yeah! If the Yonko are around 70-100%, The Admirals should be around 50-80%. Followed by the YC Commanders and Vice Admirals around 20-50% (Zoro, Yamato, King, Kat, Marco, etc...). Exceptions for the rule are Buggy at 0%, Mihawk at Yonko level, Old Garp, Rayleigh and Ben Beckman at Admiral level.
But yonko level isn't exact, i think we can now safely say Kaido and Bigmom are weaker than Shanks and prime WB. Not by a wide margin, but they would beat them eventually. The same goes for Admirals, being slightly weaker than Kaido and Big mom, and a bit more challenged by a guy like shanks, judging by akainu's reaction.
Or it's simply that people were being disingenuous, doing things like downplaying WB to try and downplay the Admirals. The story has established that all the top tiers are comparable and viewed in a similar way. The Admirals and other Yonko showing stuff now will look impressive because they've always been that way. It's certain fans that have tried to deny it and are now being shocked...like those that were surprised that Yonko Luffy called an Admiral strong.
By Yonkou are you referring to old era Yonkou (the three former Rocks and Shanks) or the New Era Yonkou ? Cause Old Era Yonkou win by landslide (except for WB which is sick at the time)
There’s definitely still levels of ACoC, Aramaki was still fighting after getting hit by Yamato. But Shanks’ Haki is clearly beyond that of Yamato’s. I think they’re all close in strength. Think it’d be a serious fight no matter the matchup My problem was always people saying commanders = admirals when that’s definitely not the case, and wouldn’t make any sense at all narratively
@@gamingscout592 commanders still got smacked though.. and now that we’re seeing admirals really fight as of late, it’s clear they weren’t even going all out at MF.. Aramaki saying “mere commanders” too
@@gamingscout592every time a commander fought a admiral they lost and took a L or went barley even. Thats like me saying vista = mihawk Crocodile = white beard.
Exactly, and when you think about Marine ford and the battles that happened there, you will notice that it doesn’t represent anything of the power scale Look at akainu’s state and compare it to aokiji’s then you will see the difference between them but what happened when they fought against each other was different from what you would think taking Marine ford state
The major difference is the type of abilities they have. The Admirals are mostly "area of effect" fighters with their Logias, and the Yonko are either brute force tanks or highly resilient with a haki focus. Both forces are incredibly strong on their own, but the hard part of fighting an admiral is hitting them in the first place.
A good point of how the power structure works, is cross guild and warlord wars. Just them putting bounties on the Navy was enough to put the world into chaos.
True, Yonko are stronger until prime Garp puts his Galaxy Nuts on Big Mom's forehead (mother Caramel appreciates 🫣) clashes with Kaido using his own club Shanks is too impressed but since he can't 👏 he gives up the title White Beard already knows he can't compete cos he tried to hit Shanks with a sake jar 🫙 and Shanks dodged it while sitted, so if Shanks can't fight Garp he can't fight Garp.
One thing More has not mentioned is Sengoku had CoC who was a fleet Admiral. By that pattern Akainu should be having CoC so It is pretty much even. So it is not technically Yonko's CoC vs fleet admiral's devil fruit awakening.
I was watching one of your videos from 3 years ago earlier & I just want to say it’s very clear how much you’ve improved at making videos over the past few years. I’m only a few minutes into this video but the difference is clear & I just wanted to let you know it’s noticeable & evident how much work you’ve put in over the years. Awesome content!
@@ankitrishabh9243 who cares about likes other than kids/teens lol? I was expressing how I felt, likes are just a byproduct of that if what I say resonates with people. The fact what I said somehow triggered you makes the comment even more worth it tho🤷♂️
It's even worse for the admirals after the last ep lmao. They made it very clear that King and Queen where nowhere close to their full power. Heck, King couldn't use magma or even his own sword lool. Even 2 admirals aren't enough to take down the og/stronger yonko. Luffy wasn't even abusing acoo, acoa + acoc and wasn't even bothering to attack him, rather focusing on sending him away from the fight, against any other admiral that would have been enough, but Kizaru can stop mid air and beam right back, without taking dmg from the lasers you have to remember. Luffy had no reason to power through that laser and take all that dmg, it would have been over in an instant if Luffy actually popped his haki and went all out around the area. But then again that would probably knock out some of the weaker characters there. We already saw Luffy doing that post g5 and Shanks as well a few chapters later on his own men. There's so many things to catch here, Luffy back on WCI could use g4 for a bit and then had to run around for 10 mins till his haki recovered and he could use it again. But now with g5 he can toy with Kizaru or whoever else for that matter, like Lucci got done lol. And when he runs out, he can just either beat his heart right back into it once more (seems like 2 g5 uses in a row is the max Luffy can do for now at least, only reason Luffy is lying down gassed on the floor rn, even after the Kaido fight he couldn't even move and Yamato had to catch him as he fell) OR he could fight in base/g2 with adv Haki now. He was going toe to toe with hybrid Kaido in base at a level that was way above what Yamato could do and even split the sky with that. Since g5 is df based it shouldn't suck out anywhere near as much haki as g4, moreover the pure hax afforded by g5 lets him not even haki till he's actually pushed like Vegapunk almost getting killed. The fact that Luffy can catch up to Kizaru if he tries should have been another indicator that Luffy was never trying to actually kill/defeat Kizaru at any point then. Not even close. HAHA there is no more admiral agenda, there never should have been one to begin with lol. Imagine a dying old admiral taking on 3 prime yonko and other pirates in a war and managing to severely injuring 1 of them and managing to tank 100 bullets into the gut with no haki without trying to defend. Yea no. Impossible to the point I can't even imagine it happening. Yonko are considerably stronger than admirals and honestly even 2 admirals are not enough to take down the OG/stronger yonkos
FACTSSSSSS. And green bull is just a damnn fraud , he got shit on by an 11 yold and got defeated in wifi by shanks the moment after, embarasssssing!!! It was clearly shown at marineford like you stated that yonkos >>>admirals and it would just make sense if you look at aokiji being yc2 in bbs crew. These marine meatriders are literally syaing yc2 = yonko lmao.
But many will still say that Kizaru and Luffy Stalemated as both of them can't move. Like they don't understand that one can't move due to the other one's attack and other can't move due to his own power usage drain. Like C'mon, Luffy was the clear winner without even ACOC.
@@apoorvaraj3894 No, he wasn't the clear winner wuite frankly. Idk what would make you think that. He was on the floor just like kizaru, luffy HAD to go gear 5 and exert enough energy to knock himself out to knock down kizaru. "Luffy hasn't used ACOC" ,ok, kizaru hasn't used devil fruit awakening. 🤦♂️ Stop the cap guys, nothing is settled yet.
@@near2196 Greenbull is a fraud, you can't use that argument. That's the equivalent of saying all admirals are stronger than yonko because akainu can beat buggy. Buggy is a clown, greenbull is a mickey mouse admiral, so use a different admiral. Also, admirals stop commanders, what are you smoking 🚬 Jozu got packed up by aokiji. Marco couldn't do anything against kizaru. Akainu fought multiple commanders at the same time after eating an island shaking attack from whitebeard and forced them to retreat.
@@michaeldavis6993 first off your reply to the other guy. How can you say for sure that kizaru’s devil fruit had not been awakened yet, or if logias even have an awakening. I don’t think it had been confirmed (correct me if I’m wrong with a proof from the manga). Even so, I don’t think it would be even near as strong as gear 5. Luffy has way more room for growth than any admiral who are carried by their devil fruit. Also , it is stated in the manga that ACOC > devil fruit so acoc coated bajrang gun would probably one shot kizaru (if it connects) if we are being honest
@@bruhhmomentummclose but It's even worse for the admirals, even 2 admirals aren't enough to take down the og/stronger yonko. Luffy wasn't even abusing acoo, acoa + acoc and wasn't even bothering to attack him, rather focusing on sending him away from the fight, against any other admiral that would have been enough, but Kizaru can stop mid air and beam right back, without taking dmg from the lasers you have to remember. Luffy had no reason to power through that laser and take all that dmg, it would have been over in an instant if Luffy actually popped his haki and went all out around the area. But then again that would probably knock out some of the weaker characters there. We already saw Luffy doing that post g5 and Shanks as well a few chapters later on his own men. There's so many things to catch here, Luffy back on WCI could use g4 for a bit and then had to run around for 10 mins till his haki recovered and he could use it again. But now with g5 he can toy with Kizaru or whoever else for that matter, like Lucci got done lol. And when he runs out, he can just either beat his heart right back into it once more (seems like 2 g5 uses in a row is the max Luffy can do for now at least, only reason Luffy is lying down gassed on the floor rn, even after the Kaido fight he couldn't even move and Yamato had to catch him as he fell) OR he could fight in base/g2 with adv Haki now. He was going toe to toe with hybrid Kaido in base at a level that was way above what Yamato could do and even split the sky with that. Since g5 is df based it shouldn't suck out anywhere near as much haki as g4, moreover the pure hax afforded by g5 lets him not even haki till he's actually pushed like Vegapunk almost getting killed. The fact that Luffy can catch up to Kizaru if he tries should have been another indicator that Luffy was never trying to actually kill/defeat Kizaru at any point then.
Are you kidding? WG + Navy must gather almost all his forces + all 7 warlords to match up one Emperor + whole crew/army. And it is enough if we take into consideration even the presence of the RedHair pirates later. 2 Emperors easily overpowers whole Navy + 7 Warlords. So this powerscale system of yours is useless. None of the Admirals have Conquers haki. Amaraki himself said that Kaido's mere presence in Wano deterred others from invading the island. The only one who could or should match the Yonkos is the Fleet Admiral. 1st and 2nd Yonkou Commanders are mostly almost at the level of Admirals. Not to mention that other High Officers are way stronger than another navy rank ....Vice Admirals. Resp. almost strong as Warlords. Emperors Fleet Admiral 1th Emperor Commander / Admirals 2th Emperor Commander / Warlords High Emperor Officers Warlord High Commanders Vice Admirals (of course with a few exceptions)
One of the things I love about One Piece. Is how even the one piece power scaling debates are unique. You have the entire fanbases arguing about two factions their scope of power. These videos are so fun to me.
Two things to keep in mind. As strong as luffy has become he still isn't stronger than kaido. I also don't think kizaru is trying to fight. Hes about the bag and strategy. He could care less about a petty fight as long as his mission is complete. Edit: Even Oda said that currently Luffy would lose to Kaido. It's not that serious though. It's the writing why the show is good not who can win against who. As strong as gear 5 Luffy is Kaido is stronger because of his haki. Luffy will get there. It's like saying Naruto during the war was stronger than Madara. Yes he eventually got there but during his actual battle it took more than just Naruto to take him down
kizaru definitely cares about the fight, he knows that is he underestimates luffy and doesn’t take the fight seriously then this could mean he’s done, now i don’t think luffy would kill kizaru but from his pov this fight could mean life or death.
@@thesenate7710caring about the fight and the goal of actually fighting is very different. Of course he cares that he’s fighting Luffy but his victory condition is killing Vegapunk, that’s what he needs to do and Luffy loses the fight.
Also Admirals not having COC would make sense considering they were all shocked when Luffy unleashed it at Marineford and all of sudden considered him a threat. Like they were afraid of something they didn’t have.
I like the idea that by taking the position of admiral, it goes against the ideals of a conqueror by being subservient to the world government and just playing your part and taking orders.
@@beatgamer99if kuzan has it, we won’t see it until we understand and find out his true goal with what he’s doing since leaving the navy, but I agree that akainu probably could
I agree, and I also think it would be odd for lapdogs of the world government to have conqueror's haki. Someone who just goes along with any order, like Kizaru (seemingly), shouldn't have conqueror's haki imo because he lacks the disposition of a king. I think the only marines that should have it are those who tend to defy the rules and think outside of the box, like Garp for example, who defied the WG by hiding Ace for years.
The og 4 Yonko are easily stronger than the admirals, but the new yonko like Buggy, Luffy, and Blackbeard aren't nearly as strong as the OG 4 yonko. Luffy Kid and Law only won because they all got power amps, devil fruit awakenings, and had a numbers advantage.
You said that "haki seems more important than devil fruits", but I'd like to remind you that Kaidou said exactly that immediately before being defeated by a devil fruit power. That to me seemed like a pretty direct statement by Oda himself: "no, Kaidou, you are wrong". Atleast narratively Oda tries to keep the two power systems balanced.
The issue with your statement is that you are using your interpretation to support your point. The best way to support your statements is with the source materialYou have to remember that roger conquered the sea using haki alone. Garp and Roger took down the Rocks pirates using Haki and not devil fruits. As far as we are concerned the roger pirates didn't have any devil fruit users that made an impact. Also, Kaido wasn't defeated by a devil fruit alone. When it came down to the final clash, it was a clash of haki and luffy came out on top. A good comparison in regards to a clash between devil fruits would be Luffy vs Doflamingo. I'm saying this not to dunk on you. More so to have a respectful conversation.
Not only that, Kaido himself appealed to his Devil Fruit's power as his final and strongest move lol, a gigantic magma dragon. And he died to lava. He contradicted himself completely, after Luffy proved him wrong through Mythical Zoan awakening
lol no because kaido was defeated by an advance coated haki fist. Kaido wasn’t wrong at all. I am willing to argue if Luffy will don’t reach a certain level he wouldn’t have u locked his mythical devil fruit.
There's clear difference, Shanks forcefully made green bull run away where as ratbeard ran away from akainu cuz he didn't see any gains from that fight and we all know how ratbeard moves like the bifch he is
@@DARamMz Lmao why are you even hating on wb but defending the damn marines. They are all frauds. Wb was old, sick and on the verge of death and akainu got the fight of his life, or akainu the dog should i say🤣. Green Bull got shit on by an 11 years old (bro cant even take one blast breath), he got wifi clowned by shanks. Imagine getting defeated by a guy miles away just unsheating 1 cm of his sword
I think the one thing you're missing about the balance of power is that if the marines and the Yonko crews fight, the other parties will jump on the survivors. We already saw this in Marineford with Blackbeard and Kaido wanting to use the war as an opportunity to interfere. Even if the Yonko aren't allies, they still represent a common threat. The Government might well be able to beat two Yonko crews back to back, but the casualties could make them vulnerable enough to succumb to the other two crews. Heck, even if the Government managed to beat all four Yonko empires, they still have other enemies in the world like the Revolutionaries who could take advantage of the crisis.
I think the Yonko are actually the ones that narratively need to be above at least your average admiral for the balance to make sense, since there clearly seems to be an individual that guarantees the empire's safety and how does that individual do that? By being the deterrent, the one that makes the government think that sending an admiral is just wasting that admiral, Aramaki's speech about Kaido pretty much confirms this. The government can't afford to send two admirals since that would leave them way too open, so if a certain territory controlled by pirates can't be confidently gained back by sending an admiral with a good fleet, then they can't do anything about it, a new Yonko is born.
I assumed admirals are each on yonko level. Since the marines have 3 of them the marines are the biggest dog on the one piece world. Thats why green bull was hyped to be ready to fight in wano However I would see any yonko being stronger than an Admiral but 2 Admiral being able to beat any yonko
I think the strength of Conquerer's Haki is all about will (or physical condition too with Whitebeard). Kizaru has no strong will of his own as 'a cog in the machine', so he may be completely incapable of it. Akainu found himself the guarding dog of celestial dragons and doing paperwork all day, but he always had a strong will to wipe out pirates, so the power of his Conquerer's Haki might be decreasing. Aokiji was just freed from the shackles of the marines to do as he pleases, likely towards a clear goal, so his Conquerer's Haki may be increasing in power.
@@Sqaudimifadda Still, he can't do so as he's still bossed around by the Celestials. Though, it would be different if he snapped and somehow kills the Celestials himself.
@@Sqaudimifaddaconquerors haki is given to those with a big dream and will to conquer and more free than others admerials are controlled by wg and cant even go all out when its to protect cd while fighting thats why only garp and sengoku got conquerors haki and sengoku got conquerors haki because to match up with garp
According to Rayleigh if Conqueror's Haki also increases during a fight , that way Kizaru's Conqueror's would not be to be neglected because he has never lost a fight.Oh yes , i forgot , if that doesn't go exclusively to pirates or the main character it's illegal and of course if it happens it makes 0 sense for whatever excuse one may come up with just because he/she hates the Navy.And don't talk about non canon Shanks scenes , also even in these scenes Kizaru stood his ground like a champion Finally to defend myself upon the upcoming Yonko meatriders who'll call me a biased Admiral fanboy like they always do to anyone that brings a single argument that would seemingly demote their Yonkos from the Godly status they have about them in their minds and apart from the Yonkos nothing else matters to them anymore , now in Egghead i can't see Kizaru losing to Luffy the same way i can't see Luffy losing to Kizaru upon taking into account all of Luffy's growth in Wano in Haki paralleled to the way his grandpa Garp deals with his most dangerous enemies.The Admiral milestone has been reached from Luffy and any of the Admirals can equally clash with him and vice versa.
That's like saying Doflamingo's string clones were apart of his awakening. We know very well that it wasn't and the ability to turn his environment into strings was. And if Punk Hazard is any hint to a Logia awakening then it should be on a much larger scale
I think that's Randy's theory too, he's been saying that "sentience" is the logia awakening for a while now, based on how Karasu's logia allows him to create sentient crows. Akainu and Aokiji have also used animal shaped attacks before so it's definitely plausible. I'm 70% sure Randy mentioned this theory to Morj on his last Theory 4 Theory, so he's aware of it. I tried to get the timestamp but it's over 2 hours long so I couldn't find it lol
The only problem I have with admerials being as strong as Yonko is this 1: Why would 3 admirals and the entire navy have such a problem with whitebeard if each admiral was = to a Yonko. 2. why bother with the balance of power in the world if you could just send 3 admirals to destroy a Yonko crew?
I'll help you a bit. 1. The Marines didn't actually have such a hard time. a - Amongst the main forces of the Marine HQ, none were severely injured, much less dead, whereas the pirates saw their leader die, and three of their main commanders were defeated. b - The war ended in a few hours (2~3 h). A fight between equals can last days in ONE PIECE (5 days for rookie Ace vs Jinbei, and 10 for Sakazuki vs Kuzan). Even in the real world, a group can be a lot stronger than the others without winning instantly (less than 3 hours is still extremely quick), with Russia vs Ukraine as a recent example. c - It wasn't Marines + Warlords vs Whitebeard Pirates. It was most of the Marine HQ (not the entire HQ, much less all of the marines) and 4 Warlords who were actively doing nothing against the Whitebeard Pirates, Crocodile, Ivankov, Jinbei, Luffy, Buggy and many Impel Down escapees. Add that Blackbeard Pirates came in and actively fought against the Marines, it was far more than just an Emperor vs the Marines. d - I know people don't like this argument (Morj doesn't like it either), but the Marines were not going all-out. They only had half of the Warlords, and their half was the least active one. Sengoku and Garp didn't even move for 90 % of the war, and they never actually fought the Whitebeard Pirates. The Admirals don't use any particularly strong move that could affect the entire battlefield like WB did with his very attack (for example, where was the country-sized Ice Age from Aokiji?). e - If Admirals weren't equal to an Emperor, why is it that every time they fought in Marineford, it was a 1v1. None of the Admirals helped each other against Newgate, and it's not like they couldn't. f - Every time an Admiral fought him during the war, it was either an equal clash, or the Admiral left as the better fighter. Kuzan vs still healthy Newgate: they had an equal fight until WB was helped by Jozu (further reinforcing point e - it was never one Admiral vs WB, but it was WB + a Commander vs an Admiral once). Sakazuki vs still healthy Newgate (1): they had an equal fight at first (Akainu even stops an attack from WB with one leg and his hands in his pockets, that's not something you do when you're weaker than your opponent). The tides change when WB has a heart attack and Akainu lands one blow. This is the crucial moment people always forget: Akainu literally leaves the fight because he won. Even though WB didn't die instantly, what was stopping Akainu from landing another hit on his face? Literally nothing, and certainly not the man who was put to his knees. Now obviously, this would not happen if WB wasn't sick, but this truly proves that WB needs to be healthy to actually equal Akainu. Borsalino vs injured Newgate: this time, the clash isn't equal anymore. Kizaru is straight up winning. After casually dodging WB's attack from behind, he easily puts down his bisento and lands a hit on WB. Again, the Admiral leaves without landing a critical blow. We know for a fact that Kizaru has very precise lasers (he hits the key from hundreds of meters away) and can launch many at the same time (Yasakani no Magatama). Sakazuki vs injured Newgate (2): this fight is probably the truly controversial one. Akainu had just ended Ace's life and his only mission now was to kill Luffy since he already dealt with WB before. Before the fight starts, Akainu is already fighting Marco, and WB sneaks behind him, enraged after the loss of his son, hits him with a blow to the head, and Akainu is still up before the page ended. The next panel shows Akainu giving the most lethal blow one can imagine, making WB's death within the next five minutes certain, and he is hit by WB a second time before falling. He comes up less than two chapters later without a lot of injury and solos 13 Division Commanders (including Marco, Vista and Izo), Crocodile (1.9 billion), Ivankov (a founder of the Revolutionary Army) and Jinbei who had been running since even before this fight started, and they can barely slow him down. No, Marinford wasn't a hard fight. 2. Why not end the Emperors? a - Sending 3 Admirals against one Yonko crew would be reckless. It would leave the HQ and Mary Geoise vulnerable to other Yonko crews and the Revolutionary Army. b - The Emperors act as deterrent to other pirates. The World Government can't deal with all pirates, so they leave some to the Emperors so none of them becomes too strong. c - Fighting the Emperors would need a lot of resources. It isn't just about sending your top dog and beating up some enemy. d - Also there's the opposite question: why didn't two Yonko crews or more team up to end the Marine HQ if Admirals weren't as strong as them? e - I believe this is the most important point: the Marine and the World Government don't go to wars they aren't certain to win. Every time they act, they fully believe they are capable of winning. I'll start with the most recent event: Egghead. It is specifically mentioned that Luffy came in as a surpise. The Marine fleet aimed to kill Vegapunk, so they are doing that. Luffy's presence didn't make them change their mind because Kizaru is still fully capable of reaching their goals (Stella's death + the three other goals mentioned in the arc). We quite literally see Kizaru throwing Luffy away and following his objective. As for Wano, Kizaru was completely ready to go and face not one, but two Emperors. The only reason he didn't go was the unknown third party represented by the Samurais. What's worse is they were technically right since the Samurais alliance actually beat the Yonko alliance during Wano. Based on their knowledge, the Samurais are Oden-Ryuma level, and both are equivalent to Emperors. From their point of view, they would have to face 2 Emperors and at least one if not several of characters on that level, without counting the crews. Finally, they brought most of their forces to Marineford for two reasons. They wanted a very clear victory over the Whitebeard Pirates, which they did as explained previously. They also wanted to be prepared in case other forces attacked them, which actually happened with the Impel Down escapees (including 'former' Warlords) and the Blackbeard Pirates, you could count the Red Hair Pirates, Kaido and King as well since the Marines thought they would bring chaos.
1. Large territory needed to conquer means logistics and sht. The admirals may win but the casualties would leave the other side exposed to attacks. 2. Emperors are lucky they hiding at the other wise of the new world
Something I think is very interesting is how statistic whitebeard was in marineford compared to him in the flashbacks and what we've seen from the likes of shanks, kaido and luffy in their fights. It might just be the way Oda had set up marineford as a conflict but it definitely feels like whitebeard was hampered by his illness at least in mobility and physical capability.
I personally see Logias not having an awakening. Like what do you want more than being an element and creating it out of nothing? That's probably why the logias are so powerful: their power is already at max, just need to master it.
You could say the same thing for Katakuri and Doffy. They can create infinite mochi/string from their bodies but they still had awakenings which extend that ability to their external environment.
any admiral would no-mid diff any yonko commander exept Ben Beckman right now we all know that but maybe some admirals are equal to Yonkos in power we will see when the fight in Egghead ends.
@@ahmetyahya7807I don't think they are going to show anything at the end of egghead. People are thinking kizaru would join the crew which is a very bizzare theory.
I think the idea is the marines could fight and possibly beat a yonko if very necessary, but they would incur such heavy losses that it wouldn't be worth it.
Speaking of WB being on top, I would consider him somewhat like Raizen from Yuyu Hakusho. Both are considered the strongest during their prime but is now below their rivals due to their weakened state.
The Ace novels also put Primebeard above Kaido and Big Mom, but Oldbeard being below the two in physical strength. But since the other two possessed better haki feats, it could also be argued that their haki is also superior to Oldbeard's.
In terms of power I believe he was even in his weakened State still Superior to both (slightly) or was the second strongest but that is a great comparison
this isnt an all out battle to defeat each other, they both have goals outside of that they are trying to accomplish and the fight will be over before someone loses i believe, so it wont solve the debate
I agree with everything in this video besides the fact that we will get an answer. I still think that this fight will be short and inconclusive before the SH escape.
I think that honestly comparing Whitebeard at Marineford with what Big Mom did in okigashima you should arrive at the conclusion that Whitebeard had a more impressive performance... This just means to me that Whitebeard even sick was at least around the level of the other yonko People just downplay him too much cause we didnt saw haki pre timsekip maybe
No one used haki there also whitebeard was said to have suffered multiple heart attacks bro was a half dead in the fight already still beat up akainu to a pulp
@@SkyRider4815 1-Everyone used haki we juat didnt saw haki pre timeskip 2-it doesnt matter how sick he was, he still has a better performance than big mom 3-the one who got more wounded after the fight was Whitebeard not Akainu, and Akainu came back to fight the whole crew after that
The question on Haki vs Devil Fruits is interesting because if Akainu is believed to be one of Luffy's final opponents, then it would answer the question of if having Conqueror's Haki is necessary to be considered among the strongest. Because he'd need to be a good challenge to a version fo Luffy that will presumably have mastered Gear 5 and improved his haki since the Kaido fight. We'll know that being a conqueror is required to be among the strongest if Akainu (and Aokiji by extension) has it or that a powerful Devil Fruit is enough if he doensn't. That's not even mentioning Garp and Sengoku, who were contemporaries to Roger and Whitebeard are the only Marines who are confirmed to be conquerors. It's also not guaranteed that Luffy vs Kizaru will have a definitive winner. Their current mission is to escape the island, not defeat the current Marine fleet. The fight could be derailed by a number of things like the iron giant, Kuma, Saturn, the Seraphim, etc.
I doubt that any of the Admirals is Luffy's final opponent as he already has his hands full at either BB or Imu. Akainu seems to be saved for Sabo's final opponent instead as the implications: Ace and Sabo were considred equals at youth, he has Ace's fruit and it would be considered a "spiritual" rematch if Sabo fights Akainu using the Flame Fruit. Poetic if Akainu beats Ace but Sabo gets revenge for Ace using his powers.
If Luffy was going to fight Akainu in a grudge match he would have been sent to Egghead. I agree with Sabo using Ace's inherited will to fight Akainu being likely. Because of Saturn being at Egghead something huge is going to happen as Luffy is no match for him currently. Law & Kid losing to Emperors they were no match for suggests that Luffy risks a similar loss, although I don't think it will be from Kizaru. I hope The Sunny & her Straw Hats all escape given the parallels to Enies Lobby, Bonnie/Kuma may sacrifice themselves here. As for the path One Piece will take we know Eneru & the Moon will come back, we know the Straw Hats will likely train on Elbaf, we know that there will be a journey to Laughtale, & we know there will be an epic war against The World Government. The order of events & battles that we see are up to our guesses. Hard to see the series being over 5 Years from now & you have to wonder if the Foxy Pirates Arc will forever feel like filler.
The way I've always considered it is that as individuals the Yonko are stronger than Admirals. It just seems to come with the territory since being a pirate, conquering territory and leading other people is all required to be a Yonko and seems to be the key to Conquerer's haki. Whereas the Admirals, besides maybe Akainu, don't need to be absolute leaders. They just need to be strong. However, I believe that the admirals all share unique traits that allow them to be more powerful at fighting large groups of people at once. While part of this has to do with my theory that Logia Awakening has to do with basically just expanding oneself imensely, to the point that one becomes a natural dissaster. However even Fujitora who despite not being a logia user themselves, also has great potential to make widespread massive attacks by calling down meteors.
I'm personally confident that Yonkos are stronger than Admirals individually. But I'm also confident that the Admirals are strong enough that the Yonko has to be serious in order to defeat them.
Yonko vs Admiral has always been a really weird debate to me because if the government had multiple Yonko level fighters ready to go then how could there be any kind of power balance? Just wipe the pirates out. No, Yonko (at least established ones, AKA Whitebeard, Shanks, Kaido and Big Mom) are Yonko because any one of them would require extensive effort from the whole Navy to defeat, maybe someone like Sakazuki can be an exception but you can't have multiple individual marines at that level if you want the system to make any sense.
No, if they want to defeat a Yonko they have to send out at least 2 admirals, which leaves Mariejois with only 2 Admirals making it easy prey for the remaining 3 emperors and the Revolutionary army led by Dragon. It's simply too risky and reckless for the WG.
yeah especially after wb died, if people think admiral >= yonko then they could jump BM with 2 admirals kill her. Kaido ain't doing shit cuz there's still 2 other admirals garp sengoku etc. Then turn their attention to kaido and all out him with 3 admirals...
@@sneedfeed7204they don’t need to send out 2 admirals to fight a yonko.. we literally have seen admirals low diffing yonko commanders and grandfleet members by themselves. One admiral is enough they just need a massive army of soldiers and a couple of vice admirals they’ll be good.
The admirals was definitely holding back that was clear from akinu and kuzan fight & kizaru fighting luffy now its as clear as day now that admirals held back
One Yonko fleet was enough for the WG to call 3 Admirals and all of the Warlords. Another Yonko crew showing up was enough for the WG to call it quits. Obviously it wasn’t as simple as that but comes to the threat level Yonkos pose, I think that answers the question
What you are missing is that, if you are going to fight, you want to reduce the casualties on your side as much as possible... you never plan fights that are extreme Diff if you can midd diff them... that's why they called all the squad. Even marines do so, Garp is probably stronger that Shiki but if you add Sengoku and jump him, you ensure victory without risking Garp to be heavily injured... And Marines successfully did that at the end of Marineford. WB died Ace died No admiral severely injured Kizaru and Aokiji were basically 100%HP
Shank vs the remaining Marines would have been another big fight... They called it a quit cos they accomplished the goal, not because of fear.... Shank vs Mihawk Kizaru vs Beckman Aokiji vs Yassop Akainu vs Lackyroo And Sengoku + vice admirals take care of the rest of the crew cos it's not a fleet Black Beard was there so it would have become a Royal Rumble match.... pointless for all parties cos nobody is coming out clean
That's like saying "Half a Supernova crew was enough to go to a Yonko's territory and rescue one of their crew mates after destroying it and escaped successfully, so that's the threat level half a Supernova crew poses." That's just a double standard that is only ever used against the Navy it seems.
@@MetakJesu07 it sounds like you’re referencing the WCI arc and they went to that territory with the specific purpose of rescuing Sanji while avoiding a full on fight with Big Mom. Nami explicitly reminded Luffy of that and that otherwise they would have brought along strong fighters like Zoro. That’s completely different from the Marines preparing for an actual war with Whitebeard
It would make sense to me if the Admirals were on par with the emperors but that's in a vacuum 1 on 1. The emperors are not alone, you have to include their empires and vast armies, while the Admirals are solo dolo.
thing is we've seen an admiral against yonko commanders twice... akainu against wb commanders and greenbull against king and queen( they were injured but zoan usually heal very quick) and it ended in admirals doing great with less effort also admirals have aoe df, magma df, ice df, light df, all these are very op ngl judging by this an admiral could do fairly well against and a yonko and its crew but this is just my speculation i could be wrong
"solo dolo"? how tf are they solo when they used three admirals, one fleet admiral, five warlords, all vice admirals excluding garp, more than an entire fleet of marine soldiers, against one yonkou and his crew of allies?
did you not see how roger became the pirate king 😂 he didn’t conquoer anything at all. He stole ponelyghs, plus no pirate at his time cared for the one piece. he travelled the world already failed than oden basically was the reason he became pirate king 😂 He didn’t take anyone down or do anything flashy lil bro 😅 truth hurts doesn’t it, I had higher expectations but laughed once everything got revealed the way it did
@avalac7412 what about rocks and his mates . He fought Garp too many times. Everyone respects him for a reason. The marines went that far to execute ace just because he is his son. You gotta watch another anime if you think Roger isn't strong. Kaido told us that his haki is op. And we saw his divine departure which made Oden confused of the attack. Just standing his ground against prime beard is a feat that proves he is among the strongest.
@@avalac7412It still doesn’t change the fact that Roger was the strongest 🤷🏻♂️ 1. Roger almost one shottet Oden that guy that almost 2 shotted Kaido 2. Sengoku said that Xebec was the strongest enemy Roger had ever faced and Roger defeated him 3. Kaido himself hyped up Roger Haki So get you facts right !!!
@@mrhuman5092 exactly my point, whitebeards crew was not enough to drag the fight out to where admirals are at the point of exhaustion, and aokiji vs akainu only showed aokijis limit. i really think that kizaru could’ve ended marineford but it dragged on for the sake of plot
Even the weird behaviour of Aokiji in Marineford kind of prove it: could dodge Whitebeard via Advanced Observation Haki, but he did let be kicked by Marco, and purposely saved Luffy several times. He was trying the bare minimum. Akainu later overpowering everyone except Whitebeard makes it more evident.
No, all that means is that they were very close to equals. If it ended sooner, one was clearly stronger. No matter how weak or stronger, if they are equal than they technically can fight for a very long time.
@@nick5839no, it is because the admirals hate each other, only akainu did fight and got beaten, because of his overconfidence and people laughing at his face
I think the argument unnecessary and it’s easily proven that admirals scale just above yonko commanders but under the yonko themselves. When Kaido mentions the people who can fight on an even footing with him(he mentions shanks, Roger, whitebeard, oden and rocks) he never mentions an admiral. Kaido was even considered “the strongest living creature”. Kaido and big mom literally cannot be damaged with ACOC or something special like that, we know that Kaido and big mom cannot be hurt by pretty much anything else and even falling into lava couldn’t kill them. We also see haki being able to overcome devil’s fruit so freezing them wouldn’t work either, in fact doffy was able to break out of aokiji’s ice and he isn’t even close to yonko level. The reason for the power balance was that there’s 3 admirals and one fleet admiral but only one yonko on each crew plus there used to be 7 powerful warlords such as mihawk who could even challenge the yonko. That along with marines having much larger numbers puts them slightly ahead of a yonko crew
@@theseeker7692Neither side is tbh, if Kizaru's mission was to take out Luffy then we'd see a truly serious battle but here he's just ignoring Liffy to go after Vegapunk which doesn't allow for a proper fight like in Kaido's case
I would put the scaling at: - Yonko being (70-100%). With them being the strongest so far, also replace Buggy with Mihawk. - Admirals being (50-80%). Strong enough that not even a Yonko can 1v2 a couple of them and a 1v1 a Yonko needs to get serious. But I'm confident that them being under the WG/Celestials somehow restricts their ACoC assuming they have it. As "will" plays a role in haki, especially conqueror's. Which is why they make up for it by their mastered DF abilities and has top tier Observation/Armament. I think even Old Garp, Rayleigh and Ben Beckman belongs in this tier. - Commanders being (20-50%). The likes of Zoro, Sanji, Kat, King, Queen, Cracker, etc...
From a writing standpoint that makes no sense, because all the admirals are on the same team, while each Yonko is an individual entity, so for the whole „balance of power“ thing to make sense each Yonko crew needs to almost be on par with the full marine force. If each admiral was as strong as a Yonko, then the balance of power would be heavily in favor of the marines
@@pokemonrampagemake The balance is very much in favor of the WG, but the WG has a much bigger job to do dealing with pirates, rebels, opposing governments, ruling over an enormous amount of land and people, etc.
@@MrBassem95no it doesnt tell me why the wg doesnt just raid yonko with 2 admirals and a fleet, the admirals jump the yonko easy win then onto the next. if they were equal in power, they could but they aren't so they cant
@@ΚρανίΩwhy would the marines do that? They want to keep the yonko but also keep them in check. If they really want yonko to be gone for good, why would they even replace wb, kaido and big mom when they were defeated in the first place? Remember all this pirates exist because of the corruption of wg.
One thing that I think has kept the WG just above the Yonko isn’t just fighting power, but resources. The individual Yonko Empires are a force to be reckoned with to be sure but are, in a word, smaller compared to the WG. The WG has the Four Blues and much of the Grand Line, not to mention whatever secrets, to pull all kinds of resources in. Resources are a major advantage to any Empire. The Yonko can only access a comparable fraction of what the WG can. Men can’t fight without food after all.
I personally think that they are relative, with yonko as slightly stronger. I’m okay with that, I just don’t like this notion that admirals are relative to someone like katakuri or king. On a scale of 1-10, if yonko are 10, admirals are 9, and YC’s (on average) are 6.
As we could see that not even the Yonko or the Admirals are equal to their peers (but close), on a scale from 1-10 it should be more like: - Yonko (including Mihawk, excluding Buggy): 7-10 - Admirals (including old Garp/Rayleigh and Beckman): 5-8 - YC Commanders and Vice Admirals (including Yamato, Law, Kidd, some Scabbards and some Shichibukai): 2-5 - Other Powerful Fighters like pre-ts Characters: 1-3 - The rest of the OP Population: 0
As opposed to your score, I refuse to give the Admirals a 9 due to them most likely have problems using their ACoC due to their nature as "WG's Lapdogs" and the "Balance of Power" itself. But 8 is still a good score to high-extreme diff Yonkos with a 7-10 score. The reason for me giving commanders a 5 instead of a 6 is that Kaido and Big Mom seem to be able to 1v2 commander level fighters or more. A "6" would be too much for a lone Yonko to solo as not even Law+Kidd (arguably 4-5 each) was able to overpower Big Mom who could be at 8-9 due to her age at 68 (WB was 72). It took a bomb and her drop to the Earth's mantle to actually beat her.
@@mstr293 the increase in strength is not linear, it’s exponential. 7 would be multiple times stronger than 6, same thing with the rest. So two 6’s would not beat a 9.
@@mstr293 An ex-admiral and a bunch of commanders had to resort to dirty tactics, against old garp. So if a Yonko is a 10, 8 is to high for admirals IMO.
On the topic of the world government keeping a yonko around, it probably came from the fact that they did in fact preferred kaido to win the onigashima war, with Green Bull actively saying he wouldnt be doing what he did if Kaido was still there. But thats more so because Kaido is just the preferrable status quo, they were doing business with Kaido, and would never be able to with luffy. Ultimately they still did like the idea of pirates wiping each other out and potentially Wano being up for grabs, but if they werent able to get it themselves, Kaido was the more stable option for them to deal with. I think this is where the misconception of world government keeping yonko around (as well as them potentially dealing with shanks) comes from
Oh yeah. Also worth noting is that the *whole* Balance of Power thing seems to entirely exclude the existence of the Revolutionary Army? Like you would think that the army whose entire stated goal is the overthrowing of the World Government, headed by the 'World's Most Dangerous Criminal', would be more included in these calculations.
@@imawarrior4878exactly idk why these idiots have not realized it by now they have the strongest devil fruits, top tier haki and if oda gives them acoc than the story would be in shambles. the yonko’s already lost (3 of them so far) yet people think they’re stronger 😂 These fools must not watch shounens it’s quite clear at this point that the admirals are stronger.
I’m an Admiral fan, but they are not as strong as Yonko. The distance between them is not that great, though. This said, Luffy is currently the weakest Yonko (Buggy not included). Kizaru is the strongest of the current three Admirals, and while he ultimately will lose to Luffy, he’s going to give him one hell of a fight.
I would place Blackbeard among others too. They guy just doesnt take risks, but he has been acknowledged by plenty of strong ones- Shanks, Rayleigh...if Aokiji is a spy then it stands to reason that he too cant defeat Blackbeard 1v1
If Kuzan is both a spy and stronger then Blackbeard then I don’t see why he wouldn’t have eliminated him and the crew. Either he isn’t a spy or he is not confident about beating Blackbeard.
LUFFY JUST ONE SHOTTED KIZZARY, AND LUFFY IS YONKO FRESH OF THE BOAT. kizzaru is k.o and he is admiral level for years he is at his peak.. so yeah this vide definitely age well LOL. we definitely got answers. it was obvious to anyone who read anything besides comics, admirals were never portrayed as yonkos in terms of power. yonkos were always a bit above admirals
@anoobagain5008 This comment got ahead of itself a little bit. Spoilers obviously.... But Luffy and Kizaru essentially stalemated. Kizaru is imnobile and Luffy does not have the stamina to keep up gear 5
@@KarateD35 stop the cope, luffy ate laser beam and kept going, kizaru too one clean shot and got k.o. luffy is out cause of his stamina, and kizaru is out cause of luffys punch. they are not the same
@@legendaryrababa What exactly about my comment was coping lol. They're both immobile. Kizaru states himself that he can't move and Luffy is so gassed he can't move. You're making it seem as though Kizaru got completely shit on, but there's a huge difference between being knocked down and being knocked out.
There's a reason they call them part of the 3 powers of the world: they balance each other out. Pirates are chaotic power, Admirals are organized power. The warlords (now seraphim) are a neutral power that fits in between these two. While the yonko are strong, they aren't completely organized through uniform training methods like the Admirals underwent with Marine supervision.
Based on what you presented, a battle between the WG vs Yonko would be 75/25 in favor of the WG. A Yonko vs Yonko would be 50/50 and the WG vs 2 Yonko would be 50/50 too.
An all out battle between a Yonkou not holding back against the WG would result in the WG being utterly decimated. Old WB who was there to just rescue Ace, required the entire Marine army along with the warlords, 3 admirals, Sengoku and Garp. They needed 5 legendary figures to take out one dying old man who had come for his son. Someone like Kaido wouldn't give a flying fuck about collateral damage or holding back. He'd wreck the WG's shit in all day everyday.
@@skrishna3 You weren't paying attention then. Some of the Navy's top fighters were doing little to nothing like Garp & Sengoku. Others like the Admirals were just disappearing at convenient times and never even ganged up on anyone together when they could have. The Warlords were mostly messing around with fodder or other Warlords that were betraying the Navy. And they had to protect their own island throughout as well. We've seen what happens when just 2 Admirals go at it in an unrestricted space. So the best Yonko crew with help from basically half the Warlords with Luffy's group from Impel Down lost badly to a restricted Navy & half the Warlords. That's not even considering all the other forces the WG has at it's disposal. So any single Yonko just gets wrecked by those forces. Even 2 Yonko when they teamed up were still seeking the Ancient Weapons because just their men were obviously not enough.
actual smooth brain. the balance of power refers to the world, not government vs the yonko. the balance is the fear and territory the government and the yonko provide and cover, reducing small frys from changing the status quo
That means you consider them to be the same level then, since Akainu took 10 days to defeat another Admiral. Separating such a difference as 98 to 100 is so small to not really matter.
I thought balance of power being a circle or triangle was obvious that its not Marines vs All yonkos, but Marines vs Yonko 1 vs Yonko 2 .. and so on, and admirals are needed in case Yonko 1 teams up with Yonko 2, not just for fighting a single yonko, and balance means its tilted in favor of WB, not an actual balance..
One thing you could argue with Yonkou is that the World government allows or even encourage them as an unofficial arm in the New World. The world government allowed Kaido to operate in Wano partially because he would extract resources like seastone and Wano-made weapons.
In what sense do you mean „allow“? We were shown quite clearly that the only reason the beast pirates lost was because they were caught off guard and could not use their weaponry or army in an optimal manner, but the alliance only found this information by being on Wano, the world government had almost no information on Wano, so even if they wanted to take Kaido down they would have had to sacrifice 90% of the marines including all the heavy hitters to do so Remember Kaido was fully intending on crashing the reverie and attacking the celestial dragons, so the marines certainly weren’t letting him do anything, they just genuinely couldn’t beat him on his home turf. The balance of power basically dictated that in an even battle (no ambush) every big player would win on their home turf
@@pokemonrampagemakelol it’s always funny hearing them say they allow the Yonko to reign. They are 4 powerful pirates with empires that ruled for decades as emperors. You just don’t allow criminals to rule like that. Part of the reason is they really couldn’t do anything about it. Too many risk involved on their part. Also what haloed them out is the 4 emperors are not one allied forces. They are all individuals fighting each other
I think its possible that this would also be a chance to differentiate the current admirals to Akainu and Kuzan (and maybe fujitora), who might actually have enough ambition to have conquerer's haki, but i still wouldnt bet money on that
Just by observing how the narrator introduces some of the pirates throughout the story it's pretty obvious who is stronger especially when comparing their pure power. This isn't limited to just the Yonkos, but pirates in general. Whitebeard is called the 'strongest man alive,' and that includes everyone, even the Marines (I'm not talking about the Gorosei here). Mihawk holds the title of the 'strongest swordsman alive.' Fujitora, although an admiral, isn't considered the strongest swordsman. Kaido, well, if it's a one-on-one fight, Kaido usually comes out on top. He's known as the strongest creature on every surface (and I believe admirals count as creatures). Even if we ignore the narrator which is pretty much Oda speaking to us the audience, you can figure it out by looking at their encounters throughout the story. Take Doflamingo for example. He's evil but cunning, yet he chose to attack Aokiji on Punk Hazard and later tried to take on Fuji in Dressrosa (I don't believe he had a 'death wish'). However, you can see his different approach when it comes to Kaido. When his smile factory was destroyed, he looked scared shitless. The same goes for Jack when he decided to board the ship with Fuji, Sengoku, and others. It didn't seem like he hesitated for a moment to do that.
Poor argument because titles in One Piece are very flimsy. 2 of your examples here directly showcase this. WhiteBeard is the world's strongest man yet Kaido is stronger and Old Garp and Sengoku are likely on-par with him.
@@kanemccarthy1979I'm not pretending to know the series as well as Oda or anything, but I believe that Kaido's introduction with that narration happened after Whitebeard ceased to exist as a living human/creature in the One Piece world. He wasn't introduced as the strongest creature to have ever existed throughout the entire One Piece storyline but only during the time when we heard it from the narrator himself, probably.
Garp, Sengoku and Shanks dont have those fancy titles yet they're equals. Also, Doffy literally ran away the moment Kuzan flexed his muscle and against Fuji he knew that none of the Marines had the right to attack him
@@passive6829 in the Ace novel while WB was still alive Kaido is stated to be above him. The narrator doesn't even say it as an explicit term. It's said as a "saying" that exists about Kaido in the world of one piece
Honestly, I always thought Yonkos were more powerful than admirals. In Marineford, Whitebeard basically slapped Akainu while being in weakened state. However, I think 2 admirals would probably be able to beat a single Yonko.
Why is that? Why did you pick 1 fight out of the 4 in Marineford and use only that to judge? The only fight where WB attacked an Admiral from behind, and still lost nearly half his head despite that too. Or maybe you only watched the anime they added to that 4th fight? It seems that that's the main way that a lot of people formed their opinion.
@@MetakJesu07 Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember any other fight between a Yanko and an admiral (except Shanks stopping Akainu with his sword). After Akainu killed Ace, Whitebeard absolutely stomped him into the ground and although Akainu eventually got up again and retaliated, it felt like he had no chance. Had he not had support from other Marines and had Whitebeard not been wounded by the guy who backstabbed him earlier, I think he would have crushed Akainu, even with his disease and old age. Their fight honestly felt like a draw but Akainu had so many advantages on his side so it was unfair in my opinion. My memory might be a little foggy since I read this part of the manga 2 years ago, but this is how I remember their interaction.
@@SmookieYT WB fought Aokiji. He also fought Kizaru, and then there's the 2 fights with Akainu. That makes 4. Oh, maybe you watched the anime? They added a bunch of filler and changed a bunch from WB & Akainu's 2nd fight. In the manga, WB attacks Akainu from behind with a quake to the head. Akainu then retaliates by melting off nearly half his head. WB then hits him again with a quake that splits the island, forming a chasm that Akainu falls into. Akainu then burrows his way underground to cut off Jimbe who had been escaping with Luffy the entire time. That is definitely not a "stomp", considering WB received a fatal injury to temporarily remove Akainu from the battlefield. And why did you think 1 stab from Squardo made such a difference? Anyway, even with just that 1 injury, Akainu stopped an attack from WB with 1 foot and his hands in his pockets, so nothing suggests that would have been easy for WB either. He lost that one because his illness started acting up, so Akainu put a hole in his torso. They both couldn't just let loose, and it was actually Akainu that was telling WB to stop destroying the place as well.
I guess there are quite some points to consider: 1. Luffy has just awakened his devil fruit. There numerous possibilities he can go with that based only on his imaginations. 2. Luffy's greatest ability is adaptation in any situation. He just hasn't understood Kizaru's ability. Soon as he does, kizaru is gone. 3. Luffy's Armament haki and Observational haki can hit a top notch as Kizaru is as fast as light which can actually improves luffy's vision into the future. 4. It is revealed Kizaru relies most on his devil fruit. Luffy's conquerors haki might define the difference in strenght. Emperors vs Admirals. I believe emperors are stronger as they fight up the ladder. They got to defeat a lot of big names to earn the title. Plus, you got to be on your toes everyday from bounty hunters, marines to even other pirates that want your spot. It isn't the same for the marines with exception being Akainu vs Aokiji and the new introduction of marine bounties, all that they had to do was train till they meet a powerful pirate which could go sideways for them.
@@jeromebranchetti6002 naah I mean starting up as a pirate, you don't have only the marines to fight rather other pirates and bounty hunters too. Unlike marines, if they stay at their base, they have no one to fight. Hence the reason most of them are fodder. Their of their devil fruits are handed to them. Just like CP9
As always, I think Oda showed us pretty clearly with bounties. Yonko usually have a bounty of 3-5 Billion, while an Admiral has a bounty of 3 billion. So yeah, Admirals could be Yonko, they could beat a Yonko, but all things considered, they stack up to Yonko they same way a 2nd or 3rd Yonko commander stacks up to a 1st commander.
How though? The bounty system is by the WG, then there's a bootleg system by Cross Guild that doesn't compare. It doesn't work when CG just gives bounties by rank with a month old system, while the actual bounty system is decades old with multiple factors involved. You'd have to say that Whitebeard is stronger than Shanks by the same distance that Shanks was stronger than Kid since there's1 billion in between their bounties.
@@MetakJesu07 There's false evaluations like Law and Kid, and that all factors into the clever tool narrative tool that the bounty system is, to tell us the general ballpark of characters power/danger level. We know that Law and Kid couldn't have defeated Big Mom without a ringout, so its clear their real bounties would be in the 2 MIL range, which is less than Blackbeard, but close which is why Law can put up an okay fight against him. But Blackbeards bounty is no longer accurate too my guess, which is why his next bounty will either reflect his strength more closely or be inflated again by another grand scheme. See how bounties never accurately imply the level, but are a nice guideline to feel out the ballpark of a character's strength. Why else would characters like King and Queen have so similar bounties, but to tell us that Sanji and Zoro are fighting opponents of very equal standing. Oda rn has no other reason to give the Admirals a bounty of 3 BIL other than to show that they can hold their own against Yonko and Yonko-wannabes. Every bit of information we have is a narrative tool. If bounties were as useless and inaccurate as everyone says, why would Oda bother so much...
13:21 I’m convinced a logia awakening permanently changes the environment which is why they didn’t awaken at Marineford. I think it’s always daytime at Enies Lobby because at some point in history the user of Kizaru’s fruit awakened there. Wouldn’t surprise me if Aokiji and Akainu both awakened at Punk Hazard which is why two years later the island still looks like that.
My assumption prior to Egghead was that the admirals are like current Kidd/Law level. Individually they can beat people like Zoro, King, Marco, and Katekuri pretty handily but are not at the level of the Emperors. Basically as easy as it would be for Kizaru to beat Marco I thought it would be for Kaido to beat Kizaru. Now with the fight that Kizaru is putting against gear 5 Luffy it seems like the gap is much closer. On the other hand there’s still time for Luffy to say he hasn’t been using conquerors or any of his advanced Hakis and then turn the tide quickly.
i honestly feel like it really depends on which yonko fights which admiral, ive always viewed this topic as a fight that could go either way just really depends on the reason/ motivation cuz rn Luffy is fighting Kizaru to protect his friends yeah then i believe Luffy would win but lets say Luffy fought Kizaru just because he can i dont see Luffy winning atall and this could be the other way around for someone like Blackbeard
After following one piece for a long time, I really think we are gonna take a detour to moon in the next arc before starting the Elbaf arc. There , Ithink we will learn more about the infinite energy source, lunarian race and most probably Uranus. We also have the best person who can develop the technology to travel to moon i.e Vegapunk just like Rayleigh was the best to coat the ship to travel under the sea to Fishman Island.
At this point in the story, Kizaru is going to have to surprise me to convince me he's anywhere near Kaido's level. I think it's even reflected in how differently the story is depicting their threat level.
@@gfggft345 How did he dismiss Kaido and Big Mom's power? Because of that one chapter? Dude isn't even going all out vs Kizaru currently and the latter is resorting to cheap tactics and attacking Luffy's weaker friends.
Kizaru convinced me at his speed. But for the other stats like haki, physical strength, and durability he has yet to show us anything close to Kaido's level.
@@mstr293 Cheap tactics? In pirateland they fight dirty too. Obviously Kizaru isn't going anywhere near all out so far. Most of his reactions are nonchalant and bored. Compare that to how Kaido reacted to being grabbed by gear 5
Instead of fighting they just used their DF to make the battlefield look cool and called it a day. Cesar 🤡 declared Akainu the winner 🏆 so Aokiji got depressed and lost a leg because he wanted to be like normal people who just have 2 legs so he decided to cut one...
I feel like Shanks now is closer to the Whitebeard and Roger level than the yonko of kaido and big mom. It would make him getting to marineford so quick and stopping it make even more sense
The fact that a certain someone who got oneshot by Shanks was previously throwing hands with the other two you mentioned does support that claim. Like, Kaido and Big Mom had to *fight* him, while Shanks just went 'Divine Departure' and it was over.
The OG 3 admirals were always just slightly under yonko, with akainu being yonko level post timeskip. However greenbull/fujitora are still certified BUMS and bringing the admiral name down.
@@boredtodeath491 Being helpless against doflamingo is an embarassment. Can you imagine replacing him with big mom or kaido and just dying to bird cage? That thought is ridiculous to even think about
I'm thinking the reason the admirals all seem to have busted fruits is because they aren't capable of supreme king haki due to their subservient nature that comes with their position.
People should’ve known that Yonkous are stronger than Admirals by simply watching the whole Marineford Arc. It took a whole GOVERNMENT consisting of Admirals, Fodder Marines, Giants, Pacifistas, and Warlords to take down an old, dying Whitebeard.
The issue is that people were seeing, but they definitely weren't watching. If they were they would have seen that even with some of the Navy (not Government) top fighters doing little to nothing like Garp & Sengoku, others like the Admirals disappearing at convenient times or only fighting solo, Warlords doing little more than fighting fodder...the Navy still crushed the best Yonko crew who had nearly half the Warlords helping them with Luffy's group from Impel Down. If anything, out of the 4 fights that WB had with the Admirals, he only ever damaged 1 of them when he attacked them from behind...and he lost nearly half his head despite that while temporarily removing that Admiral from the battlefield. The Admiral still almost accomplished his goal despite WB's interference and would have killed his target (Luffy) if a world class surgeon didn't show up.
At Marineford the one who was holding back was whitebeard as he couldn't unleash the true power of gura gura no mi due to his crew being present there .
Great Video! I love how you addressed the balance of power video argument. This is something Admiral Stans always ignore even though there is abundance of context about it in the story.
The problem with the admirals is that they haven’t done anything that impressive yet. We’ve seen akainu burn people and we’ve seen Kizaru be fast, that’s literally the bare minimum of what we should expect from them.
Punk Hazard was pretty impressive. Aokiji and Akainu fighting nonstop for days and changing the island to half-ice-age half-volcanic-wasteland with a lake in the middle that's the crater formed by their fight.
@@WheatDosit's devil fruit based, luffy split the sky with his haki by himself, like that's something a nuke can't do and before you say the anime isn't cannon ,you need check in the manga when the moon was visible
Yup, also it didn't seem like much of a contest between Akainu and Whitebeard. Like, Whitebeard was half-dead and super old and he still easily wrecked Akainu with one hand. Also, Akainu seemed terrified when Shanks easily blocked his punch and it doesn't seem like Akainu would've been able to do much against him. He certainly didn't seem confident. And it did seem like top tier Yonko commanders like Marco could hold their own against admirals.
The balance of powers was : Marine, Shishibukais(representingWg) and yonkos . According to some that meant Marines+ Shishi= 1yonko and to others Marinesand Shishi=4yonkos now that we knows that just the alliance of 3Shishi is seen as yonko level (crossguild) the only logical explanation for the balance of power is Marine+Shishi =4Yonkos
@@alecasare5425 After WB died though, and it was still just a rumour among the people, not official like WB's intro. Before that, everyone and their grandma said WB was stronger like Morj pointed out. Big Mom placed him over Kaido & Shanks, for example.
Bet this is gonna be a nice and non controversial video
ZORO >
Yonkou was strongee but it would be high difficulty to beat an admiral
Can it top Loro vs Wanji and Fraudhawk vs Snitch
I was about to comment the same 😂
Every morj video is a coinflip when it comes to wether or not I'll completely agree with morj or utterly despise his viewpoint
The problem is, if Luffy wins then Kizaru would be called weaker than the Yonko. And if Kizaru somehow wins people will claim that it is Luffy that is weaker than the Yonko. People already have their biased view set in stone.
Yep which is kinda sad
Luffy is technically weaker than the previous generation of Yonko. It took like ma gazillion people pulling out their best moves for Kaido to FINALLY get his L. A win is a win, Luffy beat Kaido, but it's not like it was a true 1v1
@phenomenonnarutokun Luffy also spent most of the battle at a handicap not having known ACoC and later Gear 5, meanwhile he was getting absolutely starched by Kaido's ACoC the whole time and even was put on death's door. Kaido also has absolutely cracked durability in his favor. I think battle damage was way closer between the two than people want to give credit, if not straight up Luffy having it worse.
@@phenomenonnarutokun the counter Argument to that is that Luffy Still did like 80% of the Damage and was still evolving mid battle. After reaching Gear 5 i don't think Kaido could beat him so it's all about whether or not he can outlast the timer.
And Luffy seems like he's increased the amount of time he can spent in that form
@@phenomenonnarutokun That was the luffy while fighting kaido. The luffy right now is already far stronger than the luffy who was fighting Kaido. Hence you can say that the luffy which is kizaru is fighting is already as strong as Kaido. If you think luffy is still as strong as the luffy before he defeated kaido, you're underestimating luffy's progression. They were literally ready to throw hands with greenbull while still recovering. After luffy recovered from the fight he already as strong as kaido. You need to get shanks atleast to stop luffy rn.
What's funny is that in universe both sides are convinced of their arguments even more so than the most die hard fans. Kaido pulled up to Marineford basically by himself, and Kizaru asked if they wanted him to go take out Big Mom and Kaido, and I don't think I've ever met someone who would claim that either of those two would have actually stood a chance at success.
Kaido was going just to die anyway and kizaru would’ve had to possibly fight 3 yonko
“Basically by himself” lmao lowkey slandering King aka his right hand man and strongest in his crew?
@@roman108kizaru would absolutmey destroy kaido's crew all by himself honestly only kaido would've been a huge problem for him
@@roman108kizaru would absolutely wipe king out 😂
I think its fair to say that from a storytelling perspective it would make no sense for Oda to have waited so long for the Admirals to play a bigger role only to have them be irrelevant directly after.
Thank you...i second this. There are 5 admirals we've seen and we've barely seen any of them fight seriously at all. It would be kinda odd for Oda to just have them sell and job to their opponents at this point, throwing out over a decades worth of build up.
Because two of the admirals will be fought by Sanji and Zoro
Akainu seems to scale above the others admirals or the original trio from the golden pirate age are more relative to each other
Aokiji’s fruit is inferior to magma yet he still fought Akainu for 10 days, Jinbei stating they were comparable in power
@@aceclover758 Not to mention that we now know that Kuzan was trained by Garp who was Rodgers rival.
Wouldn't surprise me if the mentors of Akainu and Kizaru also were legendary.
Would make sense for them to be the succesors of the the strongest Marines just like the Strawhats are to the Rodger pirates.
That would also mean that we still have ways to go until the real fight against them cause as of now I only see Luffy being able to fight and defeat them.
@@matthiasrauert8397greenbul vs shanks?
@@Gwaponameyeah we are forgetting this... completely dominated him from miles away.
I've always seen the Yonko as slightly stronger, and I think its likely that given the point in this video, advanced conquerers haki will be a deciding factor. Luffy vs Kizaru is actually the perfect time to show it too. Thematically Kizaru is a self described 'cog in the machine', a lackey, a subordinate, whereas Luffy is a captain, and wants to be a King of sorts. Conquerers haki is an ability possessed by leaders, and the leader is by definition, above a subordinate. Furthermore I think its interesting that all of the admirals names are based on animals (eg: Kizaru translates to 'Yellow Monkey') and we know that conquerers haki can be used to tame animals. I can see this fight being about showing the difference between a king and a subordinate.
Also, whilst I know that this is more to do with armament, haki was introduced as a counter to logia powers. However I don't think that this definitively means that haki is better than devil fruits in all scenarios. If anything, I think its likely that Luffy will show us the importance of mastering both. If we assume devil fruits are made from and embody dreams as has been hinted at previously, and if we understand that Haki is in some respect a persons willpower converted into energy, then Luffy will need both. Luffy will be the end of the story become pirate king by using his devil fruit abilities, which represent the power of peoples dreams, combined with his haki, which represents the willpower to act on and carry out those dreams.
Kat, Zoro, Rayleigh all have King’s Haki and are subordinates. Yes Zoro is going for Mihawk’s title, yet he still need the strength of a king to complete with Mihawk as the strongest swordsman. Rayleigh has a lot of things in common with Zoro as Luffy does with Roger so we can infer that Ray had the strength or at least the strength of Mihawk in his prime. Kat you could make an argument, but it’s known that he was stronger than Luffy at the time. It took a lot for Luffy to be see as his equal by Kat. Also in a data book it’s mentioned how Luffy disliked how he won that fight.
I think all the Admirals have King’s Haki, especially the original three. Sengoku and Garp have it, Garp was offered the position while Sengoku accepted it along with a promotion to be the Fleet Admiral. If Sengoku was has it could be a Admiral and Fleet Admiral why can’t the current Admirals and current Fleet Admiral have it?
I read a lot of stories. I think it's pretty much common sense that every top tier fighters at the level of yonkos and admirals are all advance conquerer Haki user. At least it is common sense to me.
Doflamingo has conqueror even tho he's so afraid of kaido and was willing to be under kaido, Rayleigh has too even though he's serving under Roger.
Good comment, agreed overall.
This haki argument is kind of stupid because 4/5 admirals have a real good chance for Acoc and we've literally seen an Admiral box Garp (Don't start with the "he wasn't using Acoc argument" because although they are touching, Acoc touching is extremely inconsistent, Garp said he wasn't holding back and there was black lightning which doesn't always mean Acoc but most of the time it does.)
@@nicholasalexander9866 All three of those subordinates were clearly represented as exceptions to the rule. Katakuri's drive to be a "king" doesn't interfere with his subordination to Big Mom, because what he seeks is being the unbeatable older brother to all of his siblings.
Zoro's drive to be a "king" is all about being the world's greatest swordsman, not being Pirate King, so it's not a conflict of interests with Luffy. And much character development/exploration has been given to his relationship with Luffy, and how he's only willing to follow him because he's a competent leader who will not stifle Zoro (or any of the crew's) growth, but rather enable his(/their) growth.
Raleigh has the least insight to his character given, but we can assume it's similar to Zoro's. The fact that he's a Conqueror is supposed to drive home how exceptional Roger is for being able to lead him despite that unruly personality. Both Roger and Luffy stand above others specifically because they are able to recruit and command other Conquerors, whereas Katakuri was just born into being Big Mom's subordinate lol.
Also Kaido teamed up with Big Mom and still felt like he needed the Ancient Weapons to fight the World Government
lol because the world government is stacked.. As he said himself they didn’t disband the warlords because they found them useless they did it because they came up with something else that they think could deal with us. Hence going after the ancient weapons help guarantee them a leverage over such forces.
@@FireAngelChris the seraphim are literally just loyal Warlords. And they shouldn’t matter enough if Kaido and Big Mom dog walk the admirals
@@MrBassem95 Y’all just arguing from extremist view points. Nobody said anything about dog walk. Lol the warlords were a 3 great power that mattered hence by they replaced them with a more functioning loyal army with insane upgrades to some of them. Also the seraphim’s wasn’t the only thing. They have entire department that’s what SSG is
@@FireAngelChristhe warlords and the SSG Pacifista are there to deal with the commanders not the Yonko. The Emperor has an entire crew. You’re telling me that Kizaru +4 seraphim+ Pacifista and vice admirals can’t outright stalemate a Yonko crew or at least make it extremely hard to beat?
@@MrBassem95 Why are you making up things I never said. Like the dog walking the admirals stand point. That’s some extremist views nobody is arguing. The fandom argues as if everyone argues in extremes. The warlords now replaced by the ssg are a 3rd great power on their own. They work to aide the marine head quarter. They aren’t just there to deal with the Yonko commanders. That’s not stated anywhere in the story. The 4 Yonko do not work together as an until either. They fight among each other. It’s like people forget the entire navy headquarters is part of the 3 great power. White beard had the largest fleet the government have more man power than 1 Yonko crew. They simple have more bodies to throw at them. Hence why the Yonko themselves have to be that powerful as a deciding factor. Kizaru +4 seraphim + pacifists & vice admirals with marine soldiers is further adding to my point.
I really just feel like we haven't had enough opportunities to see the Admirals go all out individually. It's easy to say the Yonko are stronger because we get more time with them, or these epic one shot moments like Shanks and Kid or Kaido's introduction when he jumps off the sky island.
It's definitely a possibility. I think Whitebeard wasn't going all out like the Admirals because Ace could get hurt by him doing so, I think Whitebeard could've easily done way more damage than he did, if he wasn't injured, and attacked 1st, but I personally think it's structured like this:
1.
• Imu
2.
• Rocks
• Dragon
• Pluton
• Poseidon
• Uranus
3.
• Roger
• Whitebeard
• Garp
• Gorosei
• Commander in Chief
• Shiki
• Z
4.
• Yonko
• Holy Knights
• Fleet Admirals
5.
• Admirals
• Revolutionary Army's Chief of Staff/Sabo
• Enel
6.
• Warlords
• Each Yonko's Top 4 Commanders
• Revolutionary's Army Commanders
• CP0
• Oars
• Fisher Tiger
• Nekomamushi
• Inuarashi
• Ashura Doji
7.
• Supernova
• Carrot
• Tobi Roppo
• Yonko Commanders 5th or below
• Nine Red Scabbards
• Warlord's Powerful Crew Member (Vergo, Daz, Perona, )
• Vice Admirals
• 200+ Million Berry bounty
• Arlong
• Oars Jr.
• CP9
• Hordy
8.
• Minks
• Giants
• Rear Admirals
• Kuro
• Don Krieg
• Enel's Priest's
• Doflimingo's Elite Officer's
• Gin
• Buggy
• Galley-La
• Caesar
9.
• Baroque works
• Commodore
• Captains
• Moria's Mysterious Three + Zombies
• Alvida
• Nyaban Brothers
• Pearl
• Mohji + Richie
• Cabaji
•
10.
• Jango
• Fulbody
• Baratie Chefs
11. Henchman & Fodder
How about shanks and greenbul?
@@Originul_imu and gorossei is a question thou. When 6 of them, (5 gorosei & imu) let sabo escaped
@janned356 Yeah, for sure, I'm putting them their because it only makes since with the importance they have to the story and for it make since for them to be above the Navy, Holy Knights, etc.
It could also be the case of people/us completely underrating Sabo and could be potentially at Admiral or higher level.
This could also reaffirm that Dragon is as powerful as his Bounty & Bloodline suggests and is at the level of Rocks, Roger, Whitebeard, Garp, and maybe even a Tier higher between them and Imu.
@@Originul_Yonko was built as tanks to take out anyone in their way, especially to get to the One Piece. The WG needs admirals, warlords, fleets, giants, the holy knights, and possibly the Gorosei to stop one Yonko. As much as I like the admirals to be strong, especially Akainu which he possibly could be Yonko level, we should’ve known since the Marineford arc that you need the whole Government (minus Imu, Holy Knights, and Gorosei) to stop an old, dying Whitebeard.
I've always believed that Yonkou are stronger than admirals, but not by a landslide as some people think. But we have to keep an open mind and realize as the story goes on, with most of the OG Yonkou taken out of the picture, there's a strong probability the admirals will look just as impressive as the Yonkou or perhaps even better because the narrative will demand it.
It's why all these characters such as Shanks, Mihawk and Dragon are literally getting buffed as the story goes on. Consistent power-scaling is important for a series to have but what's more important to Oda is narrative and Oda will make a character as strong as they need to be when he needs them to be.
Yeah! If the Yonko are around 70-100%, The Admirals should be around 50-80%. Followed by the YC Commanders and Vice Admirals around 20-50% (Zoro, Yamato, King, Kat, Marco, etc...). Exceptions for the rule are Buggy at 0%, Mihawk at Yonko level, Old Garp, Rayleigh and Ben Beckman at Admiral level.
Basically why Kaido and Big mom felt like throw away vilain
But yonko level isn't exact, i think we can now safely say Kaido and Bigmom are weaker than Shanks and prime WB. Not by a wide margin, but they would beat them eventually. The same goes for Admirals, being slightly weaker than Kaido and Big mom, and a bit more challenged by a guy like shanks, judging by akainu's reaction.
Or it's simply that people were being disingenuous, doing things like downplaying WB to try and downplay the Admirals. The story has established that all the top tiers are comparable and viewed in a similar way. The Admirals and other Yonko showing stuff now will look impressive because they've always been that way. It's certain fans that have tried to deny it and are now being shocked...like those that were surprised that Yonko Luffy called an Admiral strong.
By Yonkou are you referring to old era Yonkou (the three former Rocks and Shanks) or the New Era Yonkou ? Cause Old Era Yonkou win by landslide (except for WB which is sick at the time)
There’s definitely still levels of ACoC, Aramaki was still fighting after getting hit by Yamato. But Shanks’ Haki is clearly beyond that of Yamato’s. I think they’re all close in strength. Think it’d be a serious fight no matter the matchup
My problem was always people saying commanders = admirals when that’s definitely not the case, and wouldn’t make any sense at all narratively
Commander= admirals was thanks to marine ford 😅
@@gamingscout592 commanders still got smacked though.. and now that we’re seeing admirals really fight as of late, it’s clear they weren’t even going all out at MF.. Aramaki saying “mere commanders” too
Yeah but Shanks is clearly the world's best when it comes to Haki. It's literally the only thing he has. No DF, just raw Haki.
@@gamingscout592every time a commander fought a admiral they lost and took a L or went barley even.
Thats like me saying vista = mihawk
Crocodile = white beard.
Exactly, and when you think about Marine ford and the battles that happened there, you will notice that it doesn’t represent anything of the power scale
Look at akainu’s state and compare it to aokiji’s then you will see the difference between them but what happened when they fought against each other was different from what you would think taking Marine ford state
The major difference is the type of abilities they have. The Admirals are mostly "area of effect" fighters with their Logias, and the Yonko are either brute force tanks or highly resilient with a haki focus. Both forces are incredibly strong on their own, but the hard part of fighting an admiral is hitting them in the first place.
A good point of how the power structure works, is cross guild and warlord wars. Just them putting bounties on the Navy was enough to put the world into chaos.
This isn't just Buggy vs the marines, it's Cross Guild suddenly turning the whole world against them
i think the yonkou are stronger but not by a lot
True, Yonko are stronger until prime Garp
puts his Galaxy Nuts on Big Mom's forehead (mother Caramel appreciates 🫣)
clashes with Kaido using his own club
Shanks is too impressed but since he can't 👏 he gives up the title
White Beard already knows he can't compete cos he tried to hit Shanks with a sake jar 🫙 and Shanks dodged it while sitted, so if Shanks can't fight Garp he can't fight Garp.
One thing More has not mentioned is Sengoku had CoC who was a fleet Admiral. By that pattern Akainu should be having CoC so It is pretty much even. So it is not technically Yonko's CoC vs fleet admiral's devil fruit awakening.
so law and kidd can win against kizaru>
@@pipidudu2023 Law and kidd are not yonkous
I was watching one of your videos from 3 years ago earlier & I just want to say it’s very clear how much you’ve improved at making videos over the past few years.
I’m only a few minutes into this video but the difference is clear & I just wanted to let you know it’s noticeable & evident how much work you’ve put in over the years.
Awesome content!
@@ankitrishabh9243 who cares about likes other than kids/teens lol? I was expressing how I felt, likes are just a byproduct of that if what I say resonates with people.
The fact what I said somehow triggered you makes the comment even more worth it tho🤷♂️
@@ankitrishabh9243 I gave your comment a like btw, I’m assuming you care about likes since you mentioned it😘
It's even worse for the admirals after the last ep lmao. They made it very clear that King and Queen where nowhere close to their full power. Heck, King couldn't use magma or even his own sword lool. Even 2 admirals aren't enough to take down the og/stronger yonko. Luffy wasn't even abusing acoo, acoa + acoc and wasn't even bothering to attack him, rather focusing on sending him away from the fight, against any other admiral that would have been enough, but Kizaru can stop mid air and beam right back, without taking dmg from the lasers you have to remember.
Luffy had no reason to power through that laser and take all that dmg, it would have been over in an instant if Luffy actually popped his haki and went all out around the area. But then again that would probably knock out some of the weaker characters there. We already saw Luffy doing that post g5 and Shanks as well a few chapters later on his own men.
There's so many things to catch here, Luffy back on WCI could use g4 for a bit and then had to run around for 10 mins till his haki recovered and he could use it again. But now with g5 he can toy with Kizaru or whoever else for that matter, like Lucci got done lol. And when he runs out, he can just either beat his heart right back into it once more (seems like 2 g5 uses in a row is the max Luffy can do for now at least, only reason Luffy is lying down gassed on the floor rn, even after the Kaido fight he couldn't even move and Yamato had to catch him as he fell) OR he could fight in base/g2 with adv Haki now. He was going toe to toe with hybrid Kaido in base at a level that was way above what Yamato could do and even split the sky with that. Since g5 is df based it shouldn't suck out anywhere near as much haki as g4, moreover the pure hax afforded by g5 lets him not even haki till he's actually pushed like Vegapunk almost getting killed. The fact that Luffy can catch up to Kizaru if he tries should have been another indicator that Luffy was never trying to actually kill/defeat Kizaru at any point then.
Not even close. HAHA there is no more admiral agenda, there never should have been one to begin with lol. Imagine a dying old admiral taking on 3 prime yonko and other pirates in a war and managing to severely injuring 1 of them and managing to tank 100 bullets into the gut with no haki without trying to defend. Yea no. Impossible to the point I can't even imagine it happening.
Yonko are considerably stronger than admirals and honestly even 2 admirals are not enough to take down the OG/stronger yonkos
FACTSSSSSS. And green bull is just a damnn fraud , he got shit on by an 11 yold and got defeated in wifi by shanks the moment after, embarasssssing!!! It was clearly shown at marineford like you stated that yonkos >>>admirals and it would just make sense if you look at aokiji being yc2 in bbs crew. These marine meatriders are literally syaing yc2 = yonko lmao.
But many will still say that Kizaru and Luffy Stalemated as both of them can't move. Like they don't understand that one can't move due to the other one's attack and other can't move due to his own power usage drain. Like C'mon, Luffy was the clear winner without even ACOC.
@@apoorvaraj3894
No, he wasn't the clear winner wuite frankly. Idk what would make you think that. He was on the floor just like kizaru, luffy HAD to go gear 5 and exert enough energy to knock himself out to knock down kizaru.
"Luffy hasn't used ACOC" ,ok, kizaru hasn't used devil fruit awakening.
🤦♂️ Stop the cap guys, nothing is settled yet.
@@near2196
Greenbull is a fraud, you can't use that argument. That's the equivalent of saying all admirals are stronger than yonko because akainu can beat buggy. Buggy is a clown, greenbull is a mickey mouse admiral, so use a different admiral.
Also, admirals stop commanders, what are you smoking 🚬
Jozu got packed up by aokiji. Marco couldn't do anything against kizaru. Akainu fought multiple commanders at the same time after eating an island shaking attack from whitebeard and forced them to retreat.
@@michaeldavis6993 first off your reply to the other guy. How can you say for sure that kizaru’s devil fruit had not been awakened yet, or if logias even have an awakening. I don’t think it had been confirmed (correct me if I’m wrong with a proof from the manga). Even so, I don’t think it would be even near as strong as gear 5. Luffy has way more room for growth than any admiral who are carried by their devil fruit. Also , it is stated in the manga that ACOC > devil fruit so acoc coated bajrang gun would probably one shot kizaru (if it connects) if we are being honest
I think the logic that a yonko is 1.5 of an admiral makes a lot of sense. It holds for any of the yonko except buggy (including BB):
1. 1 yonko no crew > 1 admiral
2. 1 yonko no crew < 2 admirals
3. 1 yonko + crew = 2 admirals
4. 1 yonko + crew < 3 admirals
5. 2 yonko no crew > 2 admirals
6. 2 yonko no crew < 3 admirals
7. 2 yonko + crews = 3 admirals + shichibukai
8. 3 yonko no crew > 3 admirals
9. 3 yonko no crew = 3 admirals + shichibukai
10. 3 yonko + crews > 3 admirals + shichibukai
11. 4 yonko no crew >> 3 admirals
12. 4 yonko no crew > 3 admirals + shichibukai
13. 4 yonko + crew >> 3 admirals + shichibukai
14. 4 yonko + crew < WG + Navy + shichibukai
15. 4 yonko + crew + shichibukai > WG + Navy
couldn't have said it better myself
@@bruhhmomentummclose but It's even worse for the admirals, even 2 admirals aren't enough to take down the og/stronger yonko. Luffy wasn't even abusing acoo, acoa + acoc and wasn't even bothering to attack him, rather focusing on sending him away from the fight, against any other admiral that would have been enough, but Kizaru can stop mid air and beam right back, without taking dmg from the lasers you have to remember.
Luffy had no reason to power through that laser and take all that dmg, it would have been over in an instant if Luffy actually popped his haki and went all out around the area. But then again that would probably knock out some of the weaker characters there. We already saw Luffy doing that post g5 and Shanks as well a few chapters later on his own men.
There's so many things to catch here, Luffy back on WCI could use g4 for a bit and then had to run around for 10 mins till his haki recovered and he could use it again. But now with g5 he can toy with Kizaru or whoever else for that matter, like Lucci got done lol. And when he runs out, he can just either beat his heart right back into it once more (seems like 2 g5 uses in a row is the max Luffy can do for now at least, only reason Luffy is lying down gassed on the floor rn, even after the Kaido fight he couldn't even move and Yamato had to catch him as he fell) OR he could fight in base/g2 with adv Haki now. He was going toe to toe with hybrid Kaido in base at a level that was way above what Yamato could do and even split the sky with that. Since g5 is df based it shouldn't suck out anywhere near as much haki as g4, moreover the pure hax afforded by g5 lets him not even haki till he's actually pushed like Vegapunk almost getting killed. The fact that Luffy can catch up to Kizaru if he tries should have been another indicator that Luffy was never trying to actually kill/defeat Kizaru at any point then.
@@woosh1342 I can agree with that, but some of fans would not
Are you kidding? WG + Navy must gather almost all his forces + all 7 warlords to match up one Emperor + whole crew/army. And it is enough if we take into consideration even the presence of the RedHair pirates later. 2 Emperors easily overpowers whole Navy + 7 Warlords. So this powerscale system of yours is useless. None of the Admirals have Conquers haki. Amaraki himself said that Kaido's mere presence in Wano deterred others from invading the island. The only one who could or should match the Yonkos is the Fleet Admiral. 1st and 2nd Yonkou Commanders are mostly almost at the level of Admirals.
Not to mention that other High Officers are way stronger than another navy rank ....Vice Admirals. Resp. almost strong as Warlords.
Emperors
Fleet Admiral
1th Emperor Commander / Admirals
2th Emperor Commander / Warlords
High Emperor Officers
Warlord High Commanders
Vice Admirals (of course with a few exceptions)
@@tomasneupauer8909 wg wasn’t at marineford, just navy
One of the things I love about One Piece. Is how even the one piece power scaling debates are unique. You have the entire fanbases arguing about two factions their scope of power.
These videos are so fun to me.
Two things to keep in mind. As strong as luffy has become he still isn't stronger than kaido. I also don't think kizaru is trying to fight. Hes about the bag and strategy. He could care less about a petty fight as long as his mission is complete.
Edit: Even Oda said that currently Luffy would lose to Kaido. It's not that serious though. It's the writing why the show is good not who can win against who. As strong as gear 5 Luffy is Kaido is stronger because of his haki. Luffy will get there. It's like saying Naruto during the war was stronger than Madara. Yes he eventually got there but during his actual battle it took more than just Naruto to take him down
Luffy is stronger than Kaido and stronger than Kizaru.
kizaru definitely cares about the fight, he knows that is he underestimates luffy and doesn’t take the fight seriously then this could mean he’s done, now i don’t think luffy would kill kizaru but from his pov this fight could mean life or death.
@@thesenate7710caring about the fight and the goal of actually fighting is very different. Of course he cares that he’s fighting Luffy but his victory condition is killing Vegapunk, that’s what he needs to do and Luffy loses the fight.
@@TheCandyGamingChannel and luffy’s victory condition is getting the hell out of island. He is not fighting to kill either.
Yonkou was strongee but it would be high difficulty to beat an admiral
Also Admirals not having COC would make sense considering they were all shocked when Luffy unleashed it at Marineford and all of sudden considered him a threat. Like they were afraid of something they didn’t have.
Including sengoku. A confirmed Conquerer.
It's more shock at seeing Conquerer's haki from a rookie than anything resembling fear
I like the idea that by taking the position of admiral, it goes against the ideals of a conqueror by being subservient to the world government and just playing your part and taking orders.
@@Deebus 100 percent agree the only one I can see having it is Akainu he seemed to always do his own thing
@@beatgamer99if kuzan has it, we won’t see it until we understand and find out his true goal with what he’s doing since leaving the navy, but I agree that akainu probably could
I agree, and I also think it would be odd for lapdogs of the world government to have conqueror's haki. Someone who just goes along with any order, like Kizaru (seemingly), shouldn't have conqueror's haki imo because he lacks the disposition of a king. I think the only marines that should have it are those who tend to defy the rules and think outside of the box, like Garp for example, who defied the WG by hiding Ace for years.
The og 4 Yonko are easily stronger than the admirals, but the new yonko like Buggy, Luffy, and Blackbeard aren't nearly as strong as the OG 4 yonko. Luffy Kid and Law only won because they all got power amps, devil fruit awakenings, and had a numbers advantage.
You said that "haki seems more important than devil fruits", but I'd like to remind you that Kaidou said exactly that immediately before being defeated by a devil fruit power. That to me seemed like a pretty direct statement by Oda himself: "no, Kaidou, you are wrong". Atleast narratively Oda tries to keep the two power systems balanced.
The issue with your statement is that you are using your interpretation to support your point. The best way to support your statements is with the source materialYou have to remember that roger conquered the sea using haki alone. Garp and Roger took down the Rocks pirates using Haki and not devil fruits. As far as we are concerned the roger pirates didn't have any devil fruit users that made an impact. Also, Kaido wasn't defeated by a devil fruit alone. When it came down to the final clash, it was a clash of haki and luffy came out on top. A good comparison in regards to a clash between devil fruits would be Luffy vs Doflamingo. I'm saying this not to dunk on you. More so to have a respectful conversation.
Well a devil fruit power coated in Advanced Conqueror's Haki.
Kaido lost the haki clash too though so what’s your point?
Not only that, Kaido himself appealed to his Devil Fruit's power as his final and strongest move lol, a gigantic magma dragon. And he died to lava.
He contradicted himself completely, after Luffy proved him wrong through Mythical Zoan awakening
lol no because kaido was defeated by an advance coated haki fist. Kaido wasn’t wrong at all. I am willing to argue if Luffy will don’t reach a certain level he wouldn’t have u locked his mythical devil fruit.
This is Confusing because
Shanks makes green bull retreat
Akainu makes blackbeard retreat
Now its kizaru vs luffy
There's clear difference, Shanks forcefully made green bull run away where as ratbeard ran away from akainu cuz he didn't see any gains from that fight and we all know how ratbeard moves like the bifch he is
@@DARamMz Lmao why are you even hating on wb but defending the damn marines. They are all frauds. Wb was old, sick and on the verge of death and akainu got the fight of his life, or akainu the dog should i say🤣. Green Bull got shit on by an 11 years old (bro cant even take one blast breath), he got wifi clowned by shanks. Imagine getting defeated by a guy miles away just unsheating 1 cm of his sword
I think the one thing you're missing about the balance of power is that if the marines and the Yonko crews fight, the other parties will jump on the survivors. We already saw this in Marineford with Blackbeard and Kaido wanting to use the war as an opportunity to interfere.
Even if the Yonko aren't allies, they still represent a common threat. The Government might well be able to beat two Yonko crews back to back, but the casualties could make them vulnerable enough to succumb to the other two crews. Heck, even if the Government managed to beat all four Yonko empires, they still have other enemies in the world like the Revolutionaries who could take advantage of the crisis.
I think the Yonko are actually the ones that narratively need to be above at least your average admiral for the balance to make sense, since there clearly seems to be an individual that guarantees the empire's safety and how does that individual do that? By being the deterrent, the one that makes the government think that sending an admiral is just wasting that admiral, Aramaki's speech about Kaido pretty much confirms this.
The government can't afford to send two admirals since that would leave them way too open, so if a certain territory controlled by pirates can't be confidently gained back by sending an admiral with a good fleet, then they can't do anything about it, a new Yonko is born.
Basically yonkos are stronger by average but admirals are close enough to them and will stomp almost any commander.
I assumed admirals are each on yonko level.
Since the marines have 3 of them the marines are the biggest dog on the one piece world.
Thats why green bull was hyped to be ready to fight in wano
However I would see any yonko being stronger than an Admiral but 2 Admiral being able to beat any yonko
Kaido doesn't even see admiral as threat, he do remember garp
No matter the result, a portion of people will Claim Luffy to be weaker than the OG Yonkos and either use this statement to overplay or downplay them.
I think the strength of Conquerer's Haki is all about will (or physical condition too with Whitebeard). Kizaru has no strong will of his own as 'a cog in the machine', so he may be completely incapable of it. Akainu found himself the guarding dog of celestial dragons and doing paperwork all day, but he always had a strong will to wipe out pirates, so the power of his Conquerer's Haki might be decreasing. Aokiji was just freed from the shackles of the marines to do as he pleases, likely towards a clear goal, so his Conquerer's Haki may be increasing in power.
Akainu conquerors still is increasing regardless since it’s his will to eradicate all pirates
@@Sqaudimifadda Still, he can't do so as he's still bossed around by the Celestials. Though, it would be different if he snapped and somehow kills the Celestials himself.
@@mstr293 that'd be epic
@@Sqaudimifaddaconquerors haki is given to those with a big dream and will to conquer and more free than others admerials are controlled by wg and cant even go all out when its to protect cd while fighting thats why only garp and sengoku got conquerors haki and sengoku got conquerors haki because to match up with garp
According to Rayleigh if Conqueror's Haki also increases during a fight , that way Kizaru's Conqueror's would not be to be neglected because he has never lost a fight.Oh yes , i forgot , if that doesn't go exclusively to pirates or the main character it's illegal and of course if it happens it makes 0 sense for whatever excuse one may come up with just because he/she hates the Navy.And don't talk about non canon Shanks scenes , also even in these scenes Kizaru stood his ground like a champion
Finally to defend myself upon the upcoming Yonko meatriders who'll call me a biased Admiral fanboy like they always do to anyone that brings a single argument that would seemingly demote their Yonkos from the Godly status they have about them in their minds and apart from the Yonkos nothing else matters to them anymore , now in Egghead i can't see Kizaru losing to Luffy the same way i can't see Luffy losing to Kizaru upon taking into account all of Luffy's growth in Wano in Haki paralleled to the way his grandpa Garp deals with his most dangerous enemies.The Admiral milestone has been reached from Luffy and any of the Admirals can equally clash with him and vice versa.
Kizaru has been very impressive, artur has a theory that the light clones could possibly be part of his awakening. Thoughts?
I don't think so I think that's a more advanced application of his base fruit though I do wonder what logia awakenings look like
Ye
That's like saying Doflamingo's string clones were apart of his awakening. We know very well that it wasn't and the ability to turn his environment into strings was. And if Punk Hazard is any hint to a Logia awakening then it should be on a much larger scale
I think that's Randy's theory too, he's been saying that "sentience" is the logia awakening for a while now, based on how Karasu's logia allows him to create sentient crows. Akainu and Aokiji have also used animal shaped attacks before so it's definitely plausible. I'm 70% sure Randy mentioned this theory to Morj on his last Theory 4 Theory, so he's aware of it. I tried to get the timestamp but it's over 2 hours long so I couldn't find it lol
@@userusernomi really? Thanks, I'll check it out.
The only problem I have with admerials being as strong as Yonko is this
1: Why would 3 admirals and the entire navy have such a problem with whitebeard if each admiral was = to a Yonko.
2. why bother with the balance of power in the world if you could just send 3 admirals to destroy a Yonko crew?
I'll help you a bit.
1. The Marines didn't actually have such a hard time.
a - Amongst the main forces of the Marine HQ, none were severely injured, much less dead, whereas the pirates saw their leader die, and three of their main commanders were defeated.
b - The war ended in a few hours (2~3 h). A fight between equals can last days in ONE PIECE (5 days for rookie Ace vs Jinbei, and 10 for Sakazuki vs Kuzan). Even in the real world, a group can be a lot stronger than the others without winning instantly (less than 3 hours is still extremely quick), with Russia vs Ukraine as a recent example.
c - It wasn't Marines + Warlords vs Whitebeard Pirates. It was most of the Marine HQ (not the entire HQ, much less all of the marines) and 4 Warlords who were actively doing nothing against the Whitebeard Pirates, Crocodile, Ivankov, Jinbei, Luffy, Buggy and many Impel Down escapees. Add that Blackbeard Pirates came in and actively fought against the Marines, it was far more than just an Emperor vs the Marines.
d - I know people don't like this argument (Morj doesn't like it either), but the Marines were not going all-out. They only had half of the Warlords, and their half was the least active one. Sengoku and Garp didn't even move for 90 % of the war, and they never actually fought the Whitebeard Pirates. The Admirals don't use any particularly strong move that could affect the entire battlefield like WB did with his very attack (for example, where was the country-sized Ice Age from Aokiji?).
e - If Admirals weren't equal to an Emperor, why is it that every time they fought in Marineford, it was a 1v1. None of the Admirals helped each other against Newgate, and it's not like they couldn't.
f - Every time an Admiral fought him during the war, it was either an equal clash, or the Admiral left as the better fighter.
Kuzan vs still healthy Newgate: they had an equal fight until WB was helped by Jozu (further reinforcing point e - it was never one Admiral vs WB, but it was WB + a Commander vs an Admiral once).
Sakazuki vs still healthy Newgate (1): they had an equal fight at first (Akainu even stops an attack from WB with one leg and his hands in his pockets, that's not something you do when you're weaker than your opponent). The tides change when WB has a heart attack and Akainu lands one blow. This is the crucial moment people always forget: Akainu literally leaves the fight because he won. Even though WB didn't die instantly, what was stopping Akainu from landing another hit on his face? Literally nothing, and certainly not the man who was put to his knees. Now obviously, this would not happen if WB wasn't sick, but this truly proves that WB needs to be healthy to actually equal Akainu.
Borsalino vs injured Newgate: this time, the clash isn't equal anymore. Kizaru is straight up winning. After casually dodging WB's attack from behind, he easily puts down his bisento and lands a hit on WB. Again, the Admiral leaves without landing a critical blow. We know for a fact that Kizaru has very precise lasers (he hits the key from hundreds of meters away) and can launch many at the same time (Yasakani no Magatama).
Sakazuki vs injured Newgate (2): this fight is probably the truly controversial one. Akainu had just ended Ace's life and his only mission now was to kill Luffy since he already dealt with WB before. Before the fight starts, Akainu is already fighting Marco, and WB sneaks behind him, enraged after the loss of his son, hits him with a blow to the head, and Akainu is still up before the page ended. The next panel shows Akainu giving the most lethal blow one can imagine, making WB's death within the next five minutes certain, and he is hit by WB a second time before falling. He comes up less than two chapters later without a lot of injury and solos 13 Division Commanders (including Marco, Vista and Izo), Crocodile (1.9 billion), Ivankov (a founder of the Revolutionary Army) and Jinbei who had been running since even before this fight started, and they can barely slow him down.
No, Marinford wasn't a hard fight.
2. Why not end the Emperors?
a - Sending 3 Admirals against one Yonko crew would be reckless. It would leave the HQ and Mary Geoise vulnerable to other Yonko crews and the Revolutionary Army.
b - The Emperors act as deterrent to other pirates. The World Government can't deal with all pirates, so they leave some to the Emperors so none of them becomes too strong.
c - Fighting the Emperors would need a lot of resources. It isn't just about sending your top dog and beating up some enemy.
d - Also there's the opposite question: why didn't two Yonko crews or more team up to end the Marine HQ if Admirals weren't as strong as them?
e - I believe this is the most important point: the Marine and the World Government don't go to wars they aren't certain to win. Every time they act, they fully believe they are capable of winning.
I'll start with the most recent event: Egghead. It is specifically mentioned that Luffy came in as a surpise. The Marine fleet aimed to kill Vegapunk, so they are doing that. Luffy's presence didn't make them change their mind because Kizaru is still fully capable of reaching their goals (Stella's death + the three other goals mentioned in the arc). We quite literally see Kizaru throwing Luffy away and following his objective.
As for Wano, Kizaru was completely ready to go and face not one, but two Emperors. The only reason he didn't go was the unknown third party represented by the Samurais. What's worse is they were technically right since the Samurais alliance actually beat the Yonko alliance during Wano. Based on their knowledge, the Samurais are Oden-Ryuma level, and both are equivalent to Emperors. From their point of view, they would have to face 2 Emperors and at least one if not several of characters on that level, without counting the crews.
Finally, they brought most of their forces to Marineford for two reasons. They wanted a very clear victory over the Whitebeard Pirates, which they did as explained previously. They also wanted to be prepared in case other forces attacked them, which actually happened with the Impel Down escapees (including 'former' Warlords) and the Blackbeard Pirates, you could count the Red Hair Pirates, Kaido and King as well since the Marines thought they would bring chaos.
1. Large territory needed to conquer means logistics and sht.
The admirals may win but the casualties would leave the other side exposed to attacks.
2. Emperors are lucky they hiding at the other wise of the new world
Something I think is very interesting is how statistic whitebeard was in marineford compared to him in the flashbacks and what we've seen from the likes of shanks, kaido and luffy in their fights. It might just be the way Oda had set up marineford as a conflict but it definitely feels like whitebeard was hampered by his illness at least in mobility and physical capability.
Morj is smarter than a lot of the other content creators. I think this alienates him
I personally see Logias not having an awakening. Like what do you want more than being an element and creating it out of nothing? That's probably why the logias are so powerful: their power is already at max, just need to master it.
You could say the same thing for Katakuri and Doffy. They can create infinite mochi/string from their bodies but they still had awakenings which extend that ability to their external environment.
All fruits have awakenings.
Admirals are at par with yonko commanders but YONKOs are built different 😮
any admiral would no-mid diff any yonko commander exept Ben Beckman right now we all know that but maybe some admirals are equal to Yonkos in power we will see when the fight in Egghead ends.
@@ahmetyahya7807I don't think they are going to show anything at the end of egghead. People are thinking kizaru would join the crew which is a very bizzare theory.
I think the idea is the marines could fight and possibly beat a yonko if very necessary, but they would incur such heavy losses that it wouldn't be worth it.
Speaking of WB being on top, I would consider him somewhat like Raizen from Yuyu Hakusho. Both are considered the strongest during their prime but is now below their rivals due to their weakened state.
The Ace novels also put Primebeard above Kaido and Big Mom, but Oldbeard being below the two in physical strength. But since the other two possessed better haki feats, it could also be argued that their haki is also superior to Oldbeard's.
In terms of power I believe he was even in his weakened State still Superior to both (slightly) or was the second strongest but that is a great comparison
this isnt an all out battle to defeat each other, they both have goals outside of that they are trying to accomplish and the fight will be over before someone loses i believe, so it wont solve the debate
I agree with everything in this video besides the fact that we will get an answer. I still think that this fight will be short and inconclusive before the SH escape.
I think that honestly comparing Whitebeard at Marineford with what Big Mom did in okigashima you should arrive at the conclusion that Whitebeard had a more impressive performance...
This just means to me that Whitebeard even sick was at least around the level of the other yonko
People just downplay him too much cause we didnt saw haki pre timsekip maybe
No one used haki there also whitebeard was said to have suffered multiple heart attacks bro was a half dead in the fight already still beat up akainu to a pulp
@@SkyRider4815 1-Everyone used haki we juat didnt saw haki pre timeskip
2-it doesnt matter how sick he was, he still has a better performance than big mom
3-the one who got more wounded after the fight was Whitebeard not Akainu, and Akainu came back to fight the whole crew after that
The question on Haki vs Devil Fruits is interesting because if Akainu is believed to be one of Luffy's final opponents, then it would answer the question of if having Conqueror's Haki is necessary to be considered among the strongest. Because he'd need to be a good challenge to a version fo Luffy that will presumably have mastered Gear 5 and improved his haki since the Kaido fight. We'll know that being a conqueror is required to be among the strongest if Akainu (and Aokiji by extension) has it or that a powerful Devil Fruit is enough if he doensn't. That's not even mentioning Garp and Sengoku, who were contemporaries to Roger and Whitebeard are the only Marines who are confirmed to be conquerors.
It's also not guaranteed that Luffy vs Kizaru will have a definitive winner. Their current mission is to escape the island, not defeat the current Marine fleet. The fight could be derailed by a number of things like the iron giant, Kuma, Saturn, the Seraphim, etc.
I doubt that any of the Admirals is Luffy's final opponent as he already has his hands full at either BB or Imu. Akainu seems to be saved for Sabo's final opponent instead as the implications: Ace and Sabo were considred equals at youth, he has Ace's fruit and it would be considered a "spiritual" rematch if Sabo fights Akainu using the Flame Fruit. Poetic if Akainu beats Ace but Sabo gets revenge for Ace using his powers.
If Luffy was going to fight Akainu in a grudge match he would have been sent to Egghead. I agree with Sabo using Ace's inherited will to fight Akainu being likely. Because of Saturn being at Egghead something huge is going to happen as Luffy is no match for him currently. Law & Kid losing to Emperors they were no match for suggests that Luffy risks a similar loss, although I don't think it will be from Kizaru. I hope The Sunny & her Straw Hats all escape given the parallels to Enies Lobby, Bonnie/Kuma may sacrifice themselves here.
As for the path One Piece will take we know Eneru & the Moon will come back, we know the Straw Hats will likely train on Elbaf, we know that there will be a journey to Laughtale, & we know there will be an epic war against The World Government. The order of events & battles that we see are up to our guesses. Hard to see the series being over 5 Years from now & you have to wonder if the Foxy Pirates Arc will forever feel like filler.
The way I've always considered it is that as individuals the Yonko are stronger than Admirals. It just seems to come with the territory since being a pirate, conquering territory and leading other people is all required to be a Yonko and seems to be the key to Conquerer's haki. Whereas the Admirals, besides maybe Akainu, don't need to be absolute leaders. They just need to be strong. However, I believe that the admirals all share unique traits that allow them to be more powerful at fighting large groups of people at once. While part of this has to do with my theory that Logia Awakening has to do with basically just expanding oneself imensely, to the point that one becomes a natural dissaster. However even Fujitora who despite not being a logia user themselves, also has great potential to make widespread massive attacks by calling down meteors.
I'm personally confident that Yonkos are stronger than Admirals individually. But I'm also confident that the Admirals are strong enough that the Yonko has to be serious in order to defeat them.
Yonko vs Admiral has always been a really weird debate to me because if the government had multiple Yonko level fighters ready to go then how could there be any kind of power balance? Just wipe the pirates out. No, Yonko (at least established ones, AKA Whitebeard, Shanks, Kaido and Big Mom) are Yonko because any one of them would require extensive effort from the whole Navy to defeat, maybe someone like Sakazuki can be an exception but you can't have multiple individual marines at that level if you want the system to make any sense.
No, if they want to defeat a Yonko they have to send out at least 2 admirals, which leaves Mariejois with only 2 Admirals making it easy prey for the remaining 3 emperors and the Revolutionary army led by Dragon. It's simply too risky and reckless for the WG.
yeah especially after wb died, if people think admiral >= yonko then they could jump BM with 2 admirals kill her. Kaido ain't doing shit cuz there's still 2 other admirals garp sengoku etc. Then turn their attention to kaido and all out him with 3 admirals...
Don't use this as an excuse if they wanted to they can simply use Akainu, Kizaru and a Yonko crew sized fleet which could easily defeat them.
cause fighting a yonko means war. All the yonkos except shanks have armies protecting them
@@sneedfeed7204they don’t need to send out 2 admirals to fight a yonko.. we literally have seen admirals low diffing yonko commanders and grandfleet members by themselves. One admiral is enough they just need a massive army of soldiers and a couple of vice admirals they’ll be good.
The admirals was definitely holding back that was clear from akinu and kuzan fight & kizaru fighting luffy now its as clear as day now that admirals held back
Yeah, Morj didn't want to focus on it because it doesn't help his argument.
One Yonko fleet was enough for the WG to call 3 Admirals and all of the Warlords. Another Yonko crew showing up was enough for the WG to call it quits. Obviously it wasn’t as simple as that but comes to the threat level Yonkos pose, I think that answers the question
What you are missing is that, if you are going to fight, you want to reduce the casualties on your side as much as possible... you never plan fights that are extreme Diff if you can midd diff them... that's why they called all the squad.
Even marines do so, Garp is probably stronger that Shiki but if you add Sengoku and jump him, you ensure victory without risking Garp to be heavily injured...
And Marines successfully did that at the end of Marineford.
WB died
Ace died
No admiral severely injured
Kizaru and Aokiji were basically 100%HP
@@jeromebranchetti6002 that is a good point
Shank vs the remaining Marines would have been another big fight...
They called it a quit cos they accomplished the goal, not because of fear....
Shank vs Mihawk
Kizaru vs Beckman
Aokiji vs Yassop
Akainu vs Lackyroo
And Sengoku + vice admirals take care of the rest of the crew cos it's not a fleet
Black Beard was there so it would have become a Royal Rumble match.... pointless for all parties cos nobody is coming out clean
That's like saying "Half a Supernova crew was enough to go to a Yonko's territory and rescue one of their crew mates after destroying it and escaped successfully, so that's the threat level half a Supernova crew poses."
That's just a double standard that is only ever used against the Navy it seems.
@@MetakJesu07 it sounds like you’re referencing the WCI arc and they went to that territory with the specific purpose of rescuing Sanji while avoiding a full on fight with Big Mom. Nami explicitly reminded Luffy of that and that otherwise they would have brought along strong fighters like Zoro.
That’s completely different from the Marines preparing for an actual war with Whitebeard
It would make sense to me if the Admirals were on par with the emperors but that's in a vacuum 1 on 1. The emperors are not alone, you have to include their empires and vast armies, while the Admirals are solo dolo.
Preach
Admirals have subordinates hence why we’ve been seeing more of them
thing is we've seen an admiral against yonko commanders twice... akainu against wb commanders and greenbull against king and queen( they were injured but zoan usually heal very quick) and it ended in admirals doing great with less effort
also admirals have aoe df, magma df, ice df, light df, all these are very op ngl
judging by this an admiral could do fairly well against and a yonko and its crew but this is just my speculation i could be wrong
@@ofimportance5458nah king and queen we're almost dead
"solo dolo"? how tf are they solo when they used three admirals, one fleet admiral, five warlords, all vice admirals excluding garp, more than an entire fleet of marine soldiers, against one yonkou and his crew of allies?
Awakened logia vs advanced CoC.. very cool.
Roger conquered the see with haki only. I guess this pretty much explains which of the 2 powers is greater.
WB could’ve conquered it too. Just chose not to
@georgez2702 well he has both . But imagine Kizaro conquering it. It doesn't even sound right XD
did you not see how roger became the pirate king 😂 he didn’t conquoer anything at all. He stole ponelyghs, plus no pirate at his time cared for the one piece. he travelled the world already failed than oden basically was the reason he became pirate king 😂
He didn’t take anyone down or do anything flashy lil bro 😅 truth hurts doesn’t it, I had higher expectations but laughed once everything got revealed the way it did
@avalac7412 what about rocks and his mates .
He fought Garp too many times.
Everyone respects him for a reason. The marines went that far to execute ace just because he is his son.
You gotta watch another anime if you think Roger isn't strong.
Kaido told us that his haki is op. And we saw his divine departure which made Oden confused of the attack.
Just standing his ground against prime beard is a feat that proves he is among the strongest.
@@avalac7412It still doesn’t change the fact that Roger was the strongest 🤷🏻♂️
1. Roger almost one shottet Oden that guy that almost 2 shotted Kaido
2. Sengoku said that Xebec was the strongest enemy Roger had ever faced and Roger defeated him
3. Kaido himself hyped up Roger Haki
So get you facts right !!!
that sengoku statement about how they can rebuild marineford was after it was already fucked up and even blackbeard had shown up
I think aokiji vs akainu literally proves that the admirals held back at marineford
Well to play devils advocate that fight was 10 days, marine Ford wasn't even 10 hours
@@mrhuman5092 exactly my point, whitebeards crew was not enough to drag the fight out to where admirals are at the point of exhaustion, and aokiji vs akainu only showed aokijis limit. i really think that kizaru could’ve ended marineford but it dragged on for the sake of plot
Even the weird behaviour of Aokiji in Marineford kind of prove it: could dodge Whitebeard via Advanced Observation Haki, but he did let be kicked by Marco, and purposely saved Luffy several times. He was trying the bare minimum. Akainu later overpowering everyone except Whitebeard makes it more evident.
No, all that means is that they were very close to equals. If it ended sooner, one was clearly stronger. No matter how weak or stronger, if they are equal than they technically can fight for a very long time.
@@nick5839no, it is because the admirals hate each other, only akainu did fight and got beaten, because of his overconfidence and people laughing at his face
I think the argument unnecessary and it’s easily proven that admirals scale just above yonko commanders but under the yonko themselves. When Kaido mentions the people who can fight on an even footing with him(he mentions shanks, Roger, whitebeard, oden and rocks) he never mentions an admiral. Kaido was even considered “the strongest living creature”. Kaido and big mom literally cannot be damaged with ACOC or something special like that, we know that Kaido and big mom cannot be hurt by pretty much anything else and even falling into lava couldn’t kill them. We also see haki being able to overcome devil’s fruit so freezing them wouldn’t work either, in fact doffy was able to break out of aokiji’s ice and he isn’t even close to yonko level. The reason for the power balance was that there’s 3 admirals and one fleet admiral but only one yonko on each crew plus there used to be 7 powerful warlords such as mihawk who could even challenge the yonko. That along with marines having much larger numbers puts them slightly ahead of a yonko crew
I think at Marineford Whitebeard was below the other yonkos
Yes post medicine take off
mf wb would've absolutely destroyed big mom lmfao
@@fdmz2537 dont think so, but everyone has his own opinion
Great vid Morj. You got me looking at the power dynamics in a new fashion. Thanks for sharing
there is no way we will see a clear conclusion to this fight...
Big sad.
But at least we see both go all out at once
@@theseeker7692Neither side is tbh, if Kizaru's mission was to take out Luffy then we'd see a truly serious battle but here he's just ignoring Liffy to go after Vegapunk which doesn't allow for a proper fight like in Kaido's case
I would put the scaling at:
- Yonko being (70-100%). With them being the strongest so far, also replace Buggy with Mihawk.
- Admirals being (50-80%). Strong enough that not even a Yonko can 1v2 a couple of them and a 1v1 a Yonko needs to get serious. But I'm confident that them being under the WG/Celestials somehow restricts their ACoC assuming they have it. As "will" plays a role in haki, especially conqueror's. Which is why they make up for it by their mastered DF abilities and has top tier Observation/Armament. I think even Old Garp, Rayleigh and Ben Beckman belongs in this tier.
- Commanders being (20-50%). The likes of Zoro, Sanji, Kat, King, Queen, Cracker, etc...
To me it seems like Yonko and Admirals are about the same in strength.
From a writing standpoint that makes no sense, because all the admirals are on the same team, while each Yonko is an individual entity, so for the whole „balance of power“ thing to make sense each Yonko crew needs to almost be on par with the full marine force. If each admiral was as strong as a Yonko, then the balance of power would be heavily in favor of the marines
@@pokemonrampagemake The balance is very much in favor of the WG, but the WG has a much bigger job to do dealing with pirates, rebels, opposing governments, ruling over an enormous amount of land and people, etc.
@@pokemonrampagemakebut there’s 4 emperors so it does make sense because the Marines are the ones in power
@@MrBassem95no it doesnt tell me why the wg doesnt just raid yonko with 2 admirals and a fleet, the admirals jump the yonko easy win then onto the next. if they were equal in power, they could but they aren't so they cant
@@ΚρανίΩwhy would the marines do that? They want to keep the yonko but also keep them in check. If they really want yonko to be gone for good, why would they even replace wb, kaido and big mom when they were defeated in the first place? Remember all this pirates exist because of the corruption of wg.
13:30 I think they didn’t even had awakening at this time akainu and aokiji probably unlocked it during their fight arc punk hazard
Bro forgot the Marines also need the Sichibukai for the power balance. 💀
One thing that I think has kept the WG just above the Yonko isn’t just fighting power, but resources.
The individual Yonko Empires are a force to be reckoned with to be sure but are, in a word, smaller compared to the WG. The WG has the Four Blues and much of the Grand Line, not to mention whatever secrets, to pull all kinds of resources in. Resources are a major advantage to any Empire. The Yonko can only access a comparable fraction of what the WG can. Men can’t fight without food after all.
I personally think that they are relative, with yonko as slightly stronger. I’m okay with that, I just don’t like this notion that admirals are relative to someone like katakuri or king.
On a scale of 1-10, if yonko are 10, admirals are 9, and YC’s (on average) are 6.
As we could see that not even the Yonko or the Admirals are equal to their peers (but close), on a scale from 1-10 it should be more like:
- Yonko (including Mihawk, excluding Buggy): 7-10
- Admirals (including old Garp/Rayleigh and Beckman): 5-8
- YC Commanders and Vice Admirals (including Yamato, Law, Kidd, some Scabbards and some Shichibukai): 2-5
- Other Powerful Fighters like pre-ts Characters: 1-3
- The rest of the OP Population: 0
As opposed to your score, I refuse to give the Admirals a 9 due to them most likely have problems using their ACoC due to their nature as "WG's Lapdogs" and the "Balance of Power" itself. But 8 is still a good score to high-extreme diff Yonkos with a 7-10 score.
The reason for me giving commanders a 5 instead of a 6 is that Kaido and Big Mom seem to be able to 1v2 commander level fighters or more. A "6" would be too much for a lone Yonko to solo as not even Law+Kidd (arguably 4-5 each) was able to overpower Big Mom who could be at 8-9 due to her age at 68 (WB was 72). It took a bomb and her drop to the Earth's mantle to actually beat her.
@@mstr293 the increase in strength is not linear, it’s exponential. 7 would be multiple times stronger than 6, same thing with the rest. So two 6’s would not beat a 9.
@@mstr293
An ex-admiral and a bunch of commanders had to resort to dirty tactics, against old garp. So if a Yonko is a 10, 8 is to high for admirals IMO.
most admiral doubt is from how they always hold back ig unless im mistaken.
On the topic of the world government keeping a yonko around, it probably came from the fact that they did in fact preferred kaido to win the onigashima war, with Green Bull actively saying he wouldnt be doing what he did if Kaido was still there. But thats more so because Kaido is just the preferrable status quo, they were doing business with Kaido, and would never be able to with luffy. Ultimately they still did like the idea of pirates wiping each other out and potentially Wano being up for grabs, but if they werent able to get it themselves, Kaido was the more stable option for them to deal with. I think this is where the misconception of world government keeping yonko around (as well as them potentially dealing with shanks) comes from
Oh yeah. Also worth noting is that the *whole* Balance of Power thing seems to entirely exclude the existence of the Revolutionary Army? Like you would think that the army whose entire stated goal is the overthrowing of the World Government, headed by the 'World's Most Dangerous Criminal', would be more included in these calculations.
Admirals are going to end up being relative to Yonko’s in my opinion
They are superior
I'd say they're about even
@@imawarrior4878lol they aren't even superior even in their own factions
God knights >>>>
@@imawarrior4878lol they are not superior
@@imawarrior4878exactly idk why these idiots have not realized it by now they have the strongest devil fruits, top tier haki and if oda gives them acoc than the story would be in shambles. the yonko’s already lost (3 of them so far) yet people think they’re stronger 😂
These fools must not watch shounens it’s quite clear at this point that the admirals are stronger.
i love youtubers who thing they are an authority on the subject
I’m an Admiral fan, but they are not as strong as Yonko. The distance between them is not that great, though.
This said, Luffy is currently the weakest Yonko (Buggy not included). Kizaru is the strongest of the current three Admirals, and while he ultimately will lose to Luffy, he’s going to give him one hell of a fight.
If you cannot split the sky by a single exchange of a punch or kick then you are not yet a Yonko
I would place Blackbeard among others too. They guy just doesnt take risks, but he has been acknowledged by plenty of strong ones- Shanks, Rayleigh...if Aokiji is a spy then it stands to reason that he too cant defeat Blackbeard 1v1
If Kuzan is both a spy and stronger then Blackbeard then I don’t see why he wouldn’t have eliminated him and the crew.
Either he isn’t a spy or he is not confident about beating Blackbeard.
If the Yonko’s and Admirals switched spots , we’d still be having this debate
LUFFY JUST ONE SHOTTED KIZZARY, AND LUFFY IS YONKO FRESH OF THE BOAT. kizzaru is k.o and he is admiral level for years he is at his peak.. so yeah this vide definitely age well LOL. we definitely got answers. it was obvious to anyone who read anything besides comics, admirals were never portrayed as yonkos in terms of power. yonkos were always a bit above admirals
This comment did not age well lol
@@omarsaragozawdym?
@anoobagain5008 This comment got ahead of itself a little bit. Spoilers obviously.... But Luffy and Kizaru essentially stalemated. Kizaru is imnobile and Luffy does not have the stamina to keep up gear 5
@@KarateD35 stop the cope, luffy ate laser beam and kept going, kizaru too one clean shot and got k.o. luffy is out cause of his stamina, and kizaru is out cause of luffys punch. they are not the same
@@legendaryrababa What exactly about my comment was coping lol. They're both immobile. Kizaru states himself that he can't move and Luffy is so gassed he can't move. You're making it seem as though Kizaru got completely shit on, but there's a huge difference between being knocked down and being knocked out.
There's a reason they call them part of the 3 powers of the world: they balance each other out. Pirates are chaotic power, Admirals are organized power. The warlords (now seraphim) are a neutral power that fits in between these two. While the yonko are strong, they aren't completely organized through uniform training methods like the Admirals underwent with Marine supervision.
Based on what you presented, a battle between the WG vs Yonko would be 75/25 in favor of the WG. A Yonko vs Yonko would be 50/50 and the WG vs 2 Yonko would be 50/50 too.
An all out battle between a Yonkou not holding back against the WG would result in the WG being utterly decimated. Old WB who was there to just rescue Ace, required the entire Marine army along with the warlords, 3 admirals, Sengoku and Garp. They needed 5 legendary figures to take out one dying old man who had come for his son.
Someone like Kaido wouldn't give a flying fuck about collateral damage or holding back. He'd wreck the WG's shit in all day everyday.
@@skrishna3 You weren't paying attention then. Some of the Navy's top fighters were doing little to nothing like Garp & Sengoku. Others like the Admirals were just disappearing at convenient times and never even ganged up on anyone together when they could have. The Warlords were mostly messing around with fodder or other Warlords that were betraying the Navy. And they had to protect their own island throughout as well. We've seen what happens when just 2 Admirals go at it in an unrestricted space.
So the best Yonko crew with help from basically half the Warlords with Luffy's group from Impel Down lost badly to a restricted Navy & half the Warlords. That's not even considering all the other forces the WG has at it's disposal.
So any single Yonko just gets wrecked by those forces. Even 2 Yonko when they teamed up were still seeking the Ancient Weapons because just their men were obviously not enough.
actual smooth brain. the balance of power refers to the world, not government vs the yonko. the balance is the fear and territory the government and the yonko provide and cover, reducing small frys from changing the status quo
I've always just looked at it as if the Yonko are 100 then the admirals are 98-99, with the exception being Akainu.
That means you consider them to be the same level then, since Akainu took 10 days to defeat another Admiral. Separating such a difference as 98 to 100 is so small to not really matter.
I thought balance of power being a circle or triangle was obvious that its not Marines vs All yonkos, but Marines vs Yonko 1 vs Yonko 2 .. and so on, and admirals are needed in case Yonko 1 teams up with Yonko 2, not just for fighting a single yonko, and balance means its tilted in favor of WB, not an actual balance..
One thing you could argue with Yonkou is that the World government allows or even encourage them as an unofficial arm in the New World. The world government allowed Kaido to operate in Wano partially because he would extract resources like seastone and Wano-made weapons.
Non relevant
@@royalfun1031 On the contrary his point is totally relevant in the context of this discussion. Either elaborate or stfu.
Allowed is a strong word here. What do you think WG could do to Kaido? Go and tell Kaido to stop and submit?
In what sense do you mean „allow“? We were shown quite clearly that the only reason the beast pirates lost was because they were caught off guard and could not use their weaponry or army in an optimal manner, but the alliance only found this information by being on Wano, the world government had almost no information on Wano, so even if they wanted to take Kaido down they would have had to sacrifice 90% of the marines including all the heavy hitters to do so
Remember Kaido was fully intending on crashing the reverie and attacking the celestial dragons, so the marines certainly weren’t letting him do anything, they just genuinely couldn’t beat him on his home turf.
The balance of power basically dictated that in an even battle (no ambush) every big player would win on their home turf
@@pokemonrampagemakelol it’s always funny hearing them say they allow the Yonko to reign. They are 4 powerful pirates with empires that ruled for decades as emperors. You just don’t allow criminals to rule like that. Part of the reason is they really couldn’t do anything about it. Too many risk involved on their part. Also what haloed them out is the 4 emperors are not one allied forces. They are all individuals fighting each other
I think its possible that this would also be a chance to differentiate the current admirals to Akainu and Kuzan (and maybe fujitora), who might actually have enough ambition to have conquerer's haki, but i still wouldnt bet money on that
Just by observing how the narrator introduces some of the pirates throughout the story it's pretty obvious who is stronger especially when comparing their pure power. This isn't limited to just the Yonkos, but pirates in general.
Whitebeard is called the 'strongest man alive,' and that includes everyone, even the Marines (I'm not talking about the Gorosei here).
Mihawk holds the title of the 'strongest swordsman alive.' Fujitora, although an admiral, isn't considered the strongest swordsman.
Kaido, well, if it's a one-on-one fight, Kaido usually comes out on top. He's known as the strongest creature on every surface (and I believe admirals count as creatures).
Even if we ignore the narrator which is pretty much Oda speaking to us the audience, you can figure it out by looking at their encounters throughout the story.
Take Doflamingo for example. He's evil but cunning, yet he chose to attack Aokiji on Punk Hazard and later tried to take on Fuji in Dressrosa (I don't believe he had a 'death wish').
However, you can see his different approach when it comes to Kaido. When his smile factory was destroyed, he looked scared shitless.
The same goes for Jack when he decided to board the ship with Fuji, Sengoku, and others. It didn't seem like he hesitated for a moment to do that.
All really great points. Admirals simply don't strike the same fear in people's hearts that someone like Kaido did.
Poor argument because titles in One Piece are very flimsy. 2 of your examples here directly showcase this. WhiteBeard is the world's strongest man yet Kaido is stronger and Old Garp and Sengoku are likely on-par with him.
@@kanemccarthy1979I'm not pretending to know the series as well as Oda or anything, but I believe that Kaido's introduction with that narration happened after Whitebeard ceased to exist as a living human/creature in the One Piece world. He wasn't introduced as the strongest creature to have ever existed throughout the entire One Piece storyline but only during the time when we heard it from the narrator himself, probably.
Garp, Sengoku and Shanks dont have those fancy titles yet they're equals.
Also, Doffy literally ran away the moment Kuzan flexed his muscle and against Fuji he knew that none of the Marines had the right to attack him
@@passive6829 in the Ace novel while WB was still alive Kaido is stated to be above him. The narrator doesn't even say it as an explicit term. It's said as a "saying" that exists about Kaido in the world of one piece
Honestly, I always thought Yonkos were more powerful than admirals. In Marineford, Whitebeard basically slapped Akainu while being in weakened state. However, I think 2 admirals would probably be able to beat a single Yonko.
Why is that? Why did you pick 1 fight out of the 4 in Marineford and use only that to judge? The only fight where WB attacked an Admiral from behind, and still lost nearly half his head despite that too.
Or maybe you only watched the anime they added to that 4th fight? It seems that that's the main way that a lot of people formed their opinion.
@@MetakJesu07 Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember any other fight between a Yanko and an admiral (except Shanks stopping Akainu with his sword).
After Akainu killed Ace, Whitebeard absolutely stomped him into the ground and although Akainu eventually got up again and retaliated, it felt like he had no chance. Had he not had support from other Marines and had Whitebeard not been wounded by the guy who backstabbed him earlier, I think he would have crushed Akainu, even with his disease and old age. Their fight honestly felt like a draw but Akainu had so many advantages on his side so it was unfair in my opinion. My memory might be a little foggy since I read this part of the manga 2 years ago, but this is how I remember their interaction.
@@SmookieYT WB fought Aokiji. He also fought Kizaru, and then there's the 2 fights with Akainu. That makes 4.
Oh, maybe you watched the anime? They added a bunch of filler and changed a bunch from WB & Akainu's 2nd fight.
In the manga, WB attacks Akainu from behind with a quake to the head. Akainu then retaliates by melting off nearly half his head. WB then hits him again with a quake that splits the island, forming a chasm that Akainu falls into. Akainu then burrows his way underground to cut off Jimbe who had been escaping with Luffy the entire time.
That is definitely not a "stomp", considering WB received a fatal injury to temporarily remove Akainu from the battlefield.
And why did you think 1 stab from Squardo made such a difference?
Anyway, even with just that 1 injury, Akainu stopped an attack from WB with 1 foot and his hands in his pockets, so nothing suggests that would have been easy for WB either. He lost that one because his illness started acting up, so Akainu put a hole in his torso.
They both couldn't just let loose, and it was actually Akainu that was telling WB to stop destroying the place as well.
Yonkou was strongee but it would be high difficulty to beat an admiral
I guess there are quite some points to consider:
1. Luffy has just awakened his devil fruit. There numerous possibilities he can go with that based only on his imaginations.
2. Luffy's greatest ability is adaptation in any situation. He just hasn't understood Kizaru's ability. Soon as he does, kizaru is gone.
3. Luffy's Armament haki and Observational haki can hit a top notch as Kizaru is as fast as light which can actually improves luffy's vision into the future.
4. It is revealed Kizaru relies most on his devil fruit. Luffy's conquerors haki might define the difference in strenght.
Emperors vs Admirals. I believe emperors are stronger as they fight up the ladder. They got to defeat a lot of big names to earn the title. Plus, you got to be on your toes everyday from bounty hunters, marines to even other pirates that want your spot. It isn't the same for the marines with exception being Akainu vs Aokiji and the new introduction of marine bounties, all that they had to do was train till they meet a powerful pirate which could go sideways for them.
How are these Yonko level bounty Hunters that the Yonko have to be on their toes against? 😅
Mention one that can take a commander's bounty
@@jeromebranchetti6002 naah I mean starting up as a pirate, you don't have only the marines to fight rather other pirates and bounty hunters too. Unlike marines, if they stay at their base, they have no one to fight. Hence the reason most of them are fodder. Their of their devil fruits are handed to them. Just like CP9
As always, I think Oda showed us pretty clearly with bounties. Yonko usually have a bounty of 3-5 Billion, while an Admiral has a bounty of 3 billion. So yeah, Admirals could be Yonko, they could beat a Yonko, but all things considered, they stack up to Yonko they same way a 2nd or 3rd Yonko commander stacks up to a 1st commander.
How though? The bounty system is by the WG, then there's a bootleg system by Cross Guild that doesn't compare. It doesn't work when CG just gives bounties by rank with a month old system, while the actual bounty system is decades old with multiple factors involved.
You'd have to say that Whitebeard is stronger than Shanks by the same distance that Shanks was stronger than Kid since there's1 billion in between their bounties.
@@MetakJesu07 There's false evaluations like Law and Kid, and that all factors into the clever tool narrative tool that the bounty system is, to tell us the general ballpark of characters power/danger level. We know that Law and Kid couldn't have defeated Big Mom without a ringout, so its clear their real bounties would be in the 2 MIL range, which is less than Blackbeard, but close which is why Law can put up an okay fight against him. But Blackbeards bounty is no longer accurate too my guess, which is why his next bounty will either reflect his strength more closely or be inflated again by another grand scheme. See how bounties never accurately imply the level, but are a nice guideline to feel out the ballpark of a character's strength. Why else would characters like King and Queen have so similar bounties, but to tell us that Sanji and Zoro are fighting opponents of very equal standing.
Oda rn has no other reason to give the Admirals a bounty of 3 BIL other than to show that they can hold their own against Yonko and Yonko-wannabes. Every bit of information we have is a narrative tool. If bounties were as useless and inaccurate as everyone says, why would Oda bother so much...
Morj having to calm the chat down after each point shows how toxic this community is against people having a logical opinion
13:21 I’m convinced a logia awakening permanently changes the environment which is why they didn’t awaken at Marineford. I think it’s always daytime at Enies Lobby because at some point in history the user of Kizaru’s fruit awakened there. Wouldn’t surprise me if Aokiji and Akainu both awakened at Punk Hazard which is why two years later the island still looks like that.
My assumption prior to Egghead was that the admirals are like current Kidd/Law level. Individually they can beat people like Zoro, King, Marco, and Katekuri pretty handily but are not at the level of the Emperors. Basically as easy as it would be for Kizaru to beat Marco I thought it would be for Kaido to beat Kizaru.
Now with the fight that Kizaru is putting against gear 5 Luffy it seems like the gap is much closer. On the other hand there’s still time for Luffy to say he hasn’t been using conquerors or any of his advanced Hakis and then turn the tide quickly.
i honestly feel like it really depends on which yonko fights which admiral, ive always viewed this topic as a fight that could go either way just really depends on the reason/ motivation cuz rn Luffy is fighting Kizaru to protect his friends yeah then i believe Luffy would win but lets say Luffy fought Kizaru just because he can i dont see Luffy winning atall and this could be the other way around for someone like Blackbeard
After following one piece for a long time, I really think we are gonna take a detour to moon in the next arc before starting the Elbaf arc. There , Ithink we will learn more about the infinite energy source, lunarian race and most probably Uranus. We also have the best person who can develop the technology to travel to moon i.e Vegapunk just like Rayleigh was the best to coat the ship to travel under the sea to Fishman Island.
This won’t start a controversy 😊
If any 2 yankos were going to team up, it would be red hair and straw hats, but luffy being luffy, it wouldn't happen.
At this point in the story, Kizaru is going to have to surprise me to convince me he's anywhere near Kaido's level. I think it's even reflected in how differently the story is depicting their threat level.
You mean how Luffy recognized Kizarus strength even before the fight started and dismissed kaidos and big moms power?
@@gfggft345 How did he dismiss Kaido and Big Mom's power? Because of that one chapter? Dude isn't even going all out vs Kizaru currently and the latter is resorting to cheap tactics and attacking Luffy's weaker friends.
Kizaru convinced me at his speed. But for the other stats like haki, physical strength, and durability he has yet to show us anything close to Kaido's level.
That’s because he isn’t stronger or the same threat level as kaido.
@@mstr293 Cheap tactics? In pirateland they fight dirty too. Obviously Kizaru isn't going anywhere near all out so far. Most of his reactions are nonchalant and bored. Compare that to how Kaido reacted to being grabbed by gear 5
Admirals become shmuck without their fruit, and even if they didn’t, they’re not getting past G5 of BlackBeards darkness fruit.
Do you think Punk Hazard is caused by Akainu and Kuzan’s devil fruit awakenings?
Instead of fighting they just used their DF to make the battlefield look cool and called it a day.
Cesar 🤡 declared Akainu the winner 🏆 so Aokiji got depressed and lost a leg because he wanted to be like normal people who just have 2 legs so he decided to cut one...
I feel like Shanks now is closer to the Whitebeard and Roger level than the yonko of kaido and big mom. It would make him getting to marineford so quick and stopping it make even more sense
The fact that a certain someone who got oneshot by Shanks was previously throwing hands with the other two you mentioned does support that claim. Like, Kaido and Big Mom had to *fight* him, while Shanks just went 'Divine Departure' and it was over.
Lol
The OG 3 admirals were always just slightly under yonko, with akainu being yonko level post timeskip. However greenbull/fujitora are still certified BUMS and bringing the admiral name down.
Cringe
Don't disrespect Fujitora like that, my man was prepared to wipe out Mariejois for the W
@@boredtodeath491 Being helpless against doflamingo is an embarassment. Can you imagine replacing him with big mom or kaido and just dying to bird cage? That thought is ridiculous to even think about
@@Eyoballin helpless against doflamingo? Agenda piece enjoyer I see🤦♂️
@@Eyoballin🤡
3:18 I have to acknowledge the subtle Law jab there.
I'm thinking the reason the admirals all seem to have busted fruits is because they aren't capable of supreme king haki due to their subservient nature that comes with their position.
People should’ve known that Yonkous are stronger than Admirals by simply watching the whole Marineford Arc. It took a whole GOVERNMENT consisting of Admirals, Fodder Marines, Giants, Pacifistas, and Warlords to take down an old, dying Whitebeard.
The issue is that people were seeing, but they definitely weren't watching. If they were they would have seen that even with some of the Navy (not Government) top fighters doing little to nothing like Garp & Sengoku, others like the Admirals disappearing at convenient times or only fighting solo, Warlords doing little more than fighting fodder...the Navy still crushed the best Yonko crew who had nearly half the Warlords helping them with Luffy's group from Impel Down.
If anything, out of the 4 fights that WB had with the Admirals, he only ever damaged 1 of them when he attacked them from behind...and he lost nearly half his head despite that while temporarily removing that Admiral from the battlefield. The Admiral still almost accomplished his goal despite WB's interference and would have killed his target (Luffy) if a world class surgeon didn't show up.
At Marineford the one who was holding back was whitebeard as he couldn't unleash the true power of gura gura no mi due to his crew being present there .
It was actually akainu
Akainu with 30% power > Whitebeard
Great Video! I love how you addressed the balance of power video argument. This is something Admiral Stans always ignore even though there is abundance of context about it in the story.
The problem with the admirals is that they haven’t done anything that impressive yet. We’ve seen akainu burn people and we’ve seen Kizaru be fast, that’s literally the bare minimum of what we should expect from them.
Punk Hazard was pretty impressive.
Aokiji and Akainu fighting nonstop for days and changing the island to half-ice-age half-volcanic-wasteland with a lake in the middle that's the crater formed by their fight.
@@WheatDosit's devil fruit based, luffy split the sky with his haki by himself, like that's something a nuke can't do and before you say the anime isn't cannon ,you need check in the manga when the moon was visible
So he cleard it ,the yonkos are true monsters
Yup, also it didn't seem like much of a contest between Akainu and Whitebeard. Like, Whitebeard was half-dead and super old and he still easily wrecked Akainu with one hand. Also, Akainu seemed terrified when Shanks easily blocked his punch and it doesn't seem like Akainu would've been able to do much against him. He certainly didn't seem confident. And it did seem like top tier Yonko commanders like Marco could hold their own against admirals.
@@WheatDos so enel> 2 admirals? he destroyed the island Birka by himself before the ship was even made
The balance of powers was : Marine, Shishibukais(representingWg) and yonkos . According to some that meant Marines+ Shishi= 1yonko and to others Marinesand Shishi=4yonkos now that we knows that just the alliance of 3Shishi is seen as yonko level (crossguild) the only logical explanation for the balance of power is Marine+Shishi =4Yonkos
Just goes to show that Morj just didn't really think about it. It just easily dismisses argument.
Whitebeard is treated as the most powerful among Yonkos.
kaido is stated to be the strongest.
@@alecasare5425 After WB died though, and it was still just a rumour among the people, not official like WB's intro. Before that, everyone and their grandma said WB was stronger like Morj pointed out. Big Mom placed him over Kaido & Shanks, for example.