For the past 2-3 years, Ive used distilled water and literally design the water for the beer im brewing. This video is amazing! I will now target RA values for color, and chloride:sulfate ratios for the bitter/malty styles.
What's interesting to me about water chemistry is that Brulosophy consistently finds it matters far more than most variables brewers normally think of. Fermentation temperature, for instance, rarely produces statistically significant results with temperature differences as large as 10 C/18 F. The chloride to sulfate ratio on the other hand almost always does produce significant results, as do other water chemistry variables.
Great presentation. I know I am "putting the cart before the horse" but I have been adding 2ml of 70% phosphoric acid per 60l of water which is bringing my water pH down to 7 (very hard water here) , but it means my mash comes out about 5.6pH.
Great video but I am confused John states at 11:40 "The target mash pH for EVERY beer regardless of style, is 5.4 - 5.8 @ room temperature (5.1 - 5.5 @ mash temperature) I understand that pH reads 0.3 less or thereabouts at mash temperature so this would lead me to think if my target pH is 5.2 then it would read 5.4 at room temperature? But then in his book How to Brew he states "All professional brewing organisations have standard procedures for measuring mash, wort and beer pH at room temperature............... Therefore the commonly agreed target for mash pH is 5.2 - 5.6 as measured at room temperature" ??
Without having had talk to John Palmer about this, we agree that mash pH measurements should be taken at room temperature (72F) unless using a sophisticated meter that can be set to auto adjust for temperature. And yes, 5.2 to 5.4 (or 5.6) is ideal.
@@NorthernBrewerTV Thank you for the reply, this has been the cause of much confusion for quite a few I think. I have spent a lot of time trying to find the correct answer and came across this article which may explain the issue. braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2011/03/02/about-ph-targets-and-temperature/
I was wondering the exact same thing and I agree that 5.2 at room temperature is the key with modern ph meters. This video was created almost 10 years ago afterall.
The reason that you can't easily estimate the effect of adding acid to the mash is that the system is a pH buffer due to the presence of amino acids, phosphates and other compounds. I also think that understanding what is going on in the start water would be so much easier if this 'alkalinity' idea was dropped and you just considered hydrogencarbonate ion concentration and pH. If you know the [HCO3-], you can work out how much acid (HCl or H2SO4 depending on the required sulfate and chloride ion concentrations) should be added: HCO3- + H+ ->H2O + CO2
You can way over think this subject. I have a background in water chemistry, My thoughts are this. First determine if you have just chlorine or chloramines in your water. I have a youtube video on that subject. Once that is addressed, how does your water taste? If it taste good, you may want to try some brews with out messing with it. If your treating your water, do it in a drum, let it sit for 24 hours and retest it. A good test kit is not expensive, make sure your reagents are fresh.
Hey John, I wonder Can you lower pH in highly alkaline water (220ppmTotal alkalinty pH of 7.75) by using a carbon dioxide tank with a sintered stone... something a lot of brewers will have already.
Hey, I brewed a beer with pacific jade, which made my wort super acidic. So I adjusted with bicarbonate of sodium, but I exagerated, now it taste of sodium. What can I do to save that 5 gallons of beer? I need the suggestion of an expert. Please
Instead of Chalk, what about using baking soda (sodium bicarbonate)? Do you see the same delay in pH adjustment? If so, would adding it to my RO water a day in advance help?
Hi, Does anyone know if by comparison of flavour and smoothness if using bottled spring water instead of water from your tap/fosset, if it will make a much better beer? Bottled water in uk is only 18p for 2 litres so when i next make my batch of Coopers beer (non whole grain type) the stuff in the can like syrup. Will it make a difference, any thoughts please,i will be making a canadian blonde beer
Have you seen "the water experiment" done by Japanese physicist Masaru Emoto? The idea is that each drop of water has an epigenetic expression to its environment. If you play Mozart, the water "behaves" in a beautiful way.
Part 2, as John Palmer mentioned, who is very knowledgeable on the subject, Don't try to match brewing cities, those brewers are probably treating their water, to change it. They are not likely to tell you what they do. If you have some minerals, effects flavor and the total alkalinity is around 100ppm, you may only need to adjust the ph at the most. If you have terrible tasting water, then you have your work cut out. No magic here, go with what taste good. Results of Chemical changes are slow!
Fantastic Video John! It helps to actually hear someone talk about it rather than just reading it in a book...
Cheers!
Thx Palmer for your book
For the past 2-3 years, Ive used distilled water and literally design the water for the beer im brewing. This video is amazing! I will now target RA values for color, and chloride:sulfate ratios for the bitter/malty styles.
What's interesting to me about water chemistry is that Brulosophy consistently finds it matters far more than most variables brewers normally think of. Fermentation temperature, for instance, rarely produces statistically significant results with temperature differences as large as 10 C/18 F. The chloride to sulfate ratio on the other hand almost always does produce significant results, as do other water chemistry variables.
I would say that being a water operation specialist , this is amazing.
Great presentation. I know I am "putting the cart before the horse" but I have been adding 2ml of 70% phosphoric acid per 60l of water which is bringing my water pH down to 7 (very hard water here) , but it means my mash comes out about 5.6pH.
Great video but I am confused
John states at 11:40 "The target mash pH for EVERY beer regardless of style, is 5.4 - 5.8 @ room temperature (5.1 - 5.5 @ mash temperature)
I understand that pH reads 0.3 less or thereabouts at mash temperature so this would lead me to think if my target pH is 5.2 then it would read 5.4 at room temperature?
But then in his book How to Brew he states "All professional brewing organisations have standard procedures for measuring mash, wort and beer pH at room temperature...............
Therefore the commonly agreed target for mash pH is 5.2 - 5.6 as measured at room temperature" ??
Without having had talk to John Palmer about this, we agree that mash pH measurements should be taken at room temperature (72F) unless using a sophisticated meter that can be set to auto adjust for temperature. And yes, 5.2 to 5.4 (or 5.6) is ideal.
@@NorthernBrewerTV Thank you for the reply, this has been the cause of much confusion for quite a few I think. I have spent a lot of time trying to find the correct answer and came across this article which may explain the issue. braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2011/03/02/about-ph-targets-and-temperature/
I was wondering the exact same thing and I agree that 5.2 at room temperature is the key with modern ph meters. This video was created almost 10 years ago afterall.
Agree with Hoptomolgy....its much better to listen rather than reading. Thank-you.
Great Professor. Thanks John !!
dude man :)
thanks a lot
Nice 1 John! i enjoy brewing, and water chem is like a dark cloud.
As Lou Reed once sung, i'm beginning to see the light! cheers
because he wrote the definitive book on homebrewing maybe? Him and Charlie P are legends.
Awesome!
The reason that you can't easily estimate the effect of adding acid to the mash is that the system is a pH buffer due to the presence of amino acids, phosphates and other compounds.
I also think that understanding what is going on in the start water would be so much easier if this 'alkalinity' idea was dropped and you just considered hydrogencarbonate ion concentration and pH. If you know the [HCO3-], you can work out how much acid (HCl or H2SO4 depending on the required sulfate and chloride ion concentrations) should be added: HCO3- + H+ ->H2O + CO2
this is great!
When his book about water treatment will be out? Next year?
Before Xmas. You can preorder it on Amazon if you like.
Hi. When you mention ratios. Are you talking about CaSO4 to CaCl2 or (SO4)2- to Cl-
Hero.
You can way over think this subject. I have a background in water chemistry, My thoughts are this. First determine if you have just chlorine or chloramines in your water. I have a youtube video on that subject. Once that is addressed, how does your water taste? If it taste good, you may want to try some brews with out messing with it. If your treating your water, do it in a drum, let it sit for 24 hours and retest it. A good test kit is not expensive, make sure your reagents are fresh.
Interesting. Kansas City water is very high ph, like 9.7 but also very hard with a RA about 120 CaCO3.
Hey John, I wonder Can you lower pH in highly alkaline water (220ppmTotal alkalinty pH of 7.75) by using a carbon dioxide tank with a sintered stone... something a lot of brewers will have already.
is this the guy from 'trailer park boys'???
Ohhhhh snap! We thought he looked familiar when he should up for the video shoot. Ha!
you forgot to tell us how is adjusted the PH
Hey, I brewed a beer with pacific jade, which made my wort super acidic. So I adjusted with bicarbonate of sodium, but I exagerated, now it taste of sodium. What can I do to save that 5 gallons of beer? I need the suggestion of an expert. Please
Instead of Chalk, what about using baking soda (sodium bicarbonate)? Do you see the same delay in pH adjustment? If so, would adding it to my RO water a day in advance help?
Hi, Does anyone know if by comparison of flavour and smoothness if using bottled spring water instead of water from your tap/fosset, if it will make a much better beer?
Bottled water in uk is only 18p for 2 litres so when i next make my batch of Coopers beer (non whole grain type) the stuff in the can like syrup.
Will it make a difference, any thoughts please,i will be making a canadian blonde beer
Not so much as the mash has completed. It won't hurt though and you can at least be sure there will not be excess chlorine/chloramine.
Fan. Tastic.
a tad bit old i think. 40 percent off prices 2 years ago still good?
Hahaha, this is like an intro into Chem. 2.
Are these PPMs of calcium in CA or CACO3?
14:48 lol
23:22
Guy in background almost sleeps, then wakes up when camera is on him...... Had the same feeling.
Have you seen "the water experiment" done by Japanese physicist Masaru Emoto? The idea is that each drop of water has an epigenetic expression to its environment. If you play Mozart, the water "behaves" in a beautiful way.
John is great, but his examples are just so weird. :)
You don't have to do nothing. Take his advices, buy his book or just, simply not.
Your free will is the limit.
Part 2, as John Palmer mentioned, who is very knowledgeable on the subject, Don't try to match brewing cities, those brewers are probably treating their water, to change it. They are not likely to tell you what they do.
If you have some minerals, effects flavor and the total alkalinity is around 100ppm, you may only need to adjust the ph at the most. If you have terrible tasting water, then you have your work cut out. No magic here, go with what taste good.
Results of Chemical changes are slow!
why should i take advice from this guy what seperates him from every other overweight facial hair wearing brewer on youtube?
Because he is THE John Palmer
Because all other overweight facial hair youtube dudes take their lessons from him, probably 😂