Shout-Out To Card Altering While Grading A $500,000+ Card In Person @ PSA?
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
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I would never want to buy a card that’s been creamed on
"gotta rub it up with Kurt, Kurt's cream" 😂
Restoration is an interesting subject. Restoring old artwork often involves removal and replacement of old coatings, even inpainting to some extent. The important thing is this should be documented, transparent and disclosed. As such I wonder if grading companies should have a restored label rather than rejecting the card outright (or worse, treating as an unmodified card).
E.g a “grade 9 (restored)“ - it’s then down to an individual buyer how much they value the originality of the card vs its current aesthetics.
They’d need to improve the level of info displayed when looking up the card cert number to include a full description of both imperfections and restoration work.
CGC has this, and the labels are green for cards that are alternated. Just learned about these labels recently.
@@coolgamedesigner oh, thanks for point that out. Just looked at their comic grading - there they have purple labels for restored comics with a separate restoration grading scale.
I think that would be something actually useful they COULD do, and indeed offer. However some standards of what restoration is, would need to be established. I don't really even know for example, if anything rattle mentions here in the long run damages or restores cards. It would need to be investigated. perhaps I could do something to test it out with whatever means I have. But if the commonly used methods actually cause long term issues, then it should indeed be considered alteration damage. If its something that adds some protective layer that can simply be reapplied if it gets worn, then yeah, maybe that would be acceptable as restoration. Again, art world accepts that nothing is going to be original forever. And yes, pretty much every great work has been touched up. And as you say, its always been documented.
However as far as cards, we know for a fact that none of the grading companies even have the most basic level of technology to check for anything. Its all just the naked eye and physical rulers at best. None of the companies seems willing to put in any extra effort, and simply seek to keep costs as low as possible and turn around times as fast as possible. So any sort of checks for work done on cards, whether its considered alteration or restoration aside, is not even on their radar. heaven forbid they buy machines that cost 5 or 6 figures to assist them, or add any extra steps that would increase turn around times, or even limit their card acceptance rate. That is my beef. It would take a lot, but if someone ever does make a service where the idea is to help the card, inform the collector and provide an actual service instead of simply slap a subjective number on a little label and put it in a thick plastic case, I'd be willing to praise that. But the start up cost alone, not to mention trying to sell to people that this is good for colleectors would be difficult. The opaque nature of grading companies is telling as they don't want you to know just how actually unprofessional their working conditions and workflows actually are. This is why the pandemic upstarts were just as good as the big 3, its just THAT low tech, they just didn't have the name recognition is all it came down to.
/postzilla
Even if PSA can detect "Creamed" cards they will never tell us how. That would only give the Creamers ammunition to subvert the detection methods.
Lol "The creamers" 😂
Rattle dropping bombs on a Friday morning. Breaking News: PSA Not Perfect either! ❤
Thanks for uploading still, putting in that work, and being unapologetically Rattle.
Unfortunately PSA’s customers are the flipper dippers and not the collector. They know where their $ comes from and don’t wanna bite the hand that feeds them.
Not true I’m a collector and I use Kurt’s card care 😂😂😂😂😂
I don’t understand the importance of the grade when it comes to 1/1’s. If it’s a unique card, who cares what the grade is? There’s nothing to compare it to for pricing.
Sort of… unfortunately a 1/1 for a product isn’t a true 1/1. There’s multiple one of ones for each set released and for each player. Just this video shows 2 Different types of 1/1 cards from the same product. There’s monopoly Prizm 1/1s as well.
Late night drunk reply…grading comes with a lot of extras that I’m not sure I’m built to understand lol.
I've purchased a card raw and had it graded with CGC, it came back AA ( altered authentic ) and a little note saying it was polished. I purchased a 10x magnify ring light lamp off amazon and you can easily spot swirl marks where they used the stuff.
Long story short, it's not that hard to tell if you have a high power light. So why is PSA not able to "detect" it. Especially on sports cards where the whole dang thing is holo.
"If you see anyone who's creamin', send 'em my way" - Rattle knows what's up
I would like to see some prominent members of the Pokémon community begin their own transparent grading company, with high standards and expectations.
Detecting polish or wax should be standard.
As well as macroscopic scans of the cards surface to assign a unique "finger print" to the card to prevent theft and resubmissions.
A highly specialized company in grading Pokémon specifically could completely change the industry standard.
The first publicity video I would do is demonstrate all the detection capabilities to certify authenticity.
I would crack a bunch of high end slabs from other companies and prove the flaws and unreliability of them.
I wonder how many psa 10's would be graded fake, authentically altered by wax, ink, edge whiting, etc.
If you could undeniably showcase the unreliability of grading and display your superior detection you could completely change the industry standard.
You heavily underestimate how much money grading companies are making. It's so much that it could make anyone corrupt. It's not life-changing money, it's reality-changing money.
@_mocart_ You heavily underestimate the impact competition has on market share and, therefore, revenue.
Especially if that competition demonstrates the other companies are incapable of providing an accurate authentication service.
@@naturesepyon you’re heavily overestimating the impact it could have. There’s all sorts of pop up grading companies coming out left and right. The fact is PSA virtually has a monopoly on the market. Not only in terms of revenue from grading cards but also in terms of value when compared. There’s to much money involved and being circulated to let any one new in the game to have any serious effect. Trying to start a grading company today to compete with PSA would be tougher than starting a Cola company with hopes of outdoing Coke and Pepsi. The ship has already sailed.
These companies are bogus. I csnt believe how shitty they are. It makes me want to start my own grading company
Go for it no one will use it.
shed your morals and join them.
Your analysis of the fundamental nature of polish is highly accurate
Everyone thought that was a great idea…..let’s see how good of idea it really is, I got my popcorn ready. Thanks rattle
You can see them spraying some type of shit on the card in the video I seen 😂
Very controversial topic. While it hasn’t been proven that this cant effect a cards lifespan, sports collectors have been doing this for years.
Currently CGC is the only company proven to not numerically grade polished cards, they will get “authentic altered” as a grade if cleaning is detected.
They have rewritten their “Do Not Grade” rules to include cleaned and polished cards
That is false. CGC last year graded Pokemon cards with Kurt's polish applied to them. The individual who submitted the pokemon cards openly shared what he did on instagram. Opossum Bud did a video on it several months ago. They slipped on through undetected.
@@auswolf9507 It’s very hard for anyone to detect, but CGC will absolutely not give grades to cards they deem polished. It’s in their rules and I have seen it first hand…
What do you want the graders to do exactly? Go check out each customers socials to see if they do fishy stuff to cards?
Wax will never damage cardboard. People have been doing this since the 90s. Do you wax your car?
I'm waiting for some derpy werpy to try this stuff on a full art and completely ruin it. Buttering up those crevices.
Rattle you have the "Hockey Fights" VHS tapes from the 90s?! 😂❤
Is using a paper towel and a bit of water to wipe of a sugary substance my childhood grubby ass fingers put on a few cards altering?
It’s not
Wiping dirt off isn't an issue, it's the polish that is removing part of the card's clear coating to hide damage.
@@RattlePokemon facts dude.
kenny boy prolly says its worth a cool mil but then when he goes to auction it might bring in 100k like what happened with that triple logoman 🤣🤣
I agree that adding a substance to a card would make it altered but using a cloth to wipe off residue from printing process, finger prints or dust would not be. Always wipe.
I wonder if the blacklight you used to check for glues would show the cream too
You know in the comic hobby CGC allows pressing & cleaning done to comics before grading. Maybe PSA should get on the band wagon & allow using Kurts card care or just buy him out & charge for cleaning before grading. If you go to card shows you see card doctors offering card care services. Were living in a new era where we cant tell what's pack pulled or home cleaned anymore.
Yea man, I’ve seen some pretty bad examples where the card is just so unrealistically shiny, but for the most parts it’s impossible to tell once all the polish is removed
I don't think PSA would ever get on board with cleaning cards. They are an offshoot of Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS). In the coin world, cleaning is a major no-no. If I remember correctly, they refer to it as "whizzing" a coin.
@@RickInMaryland It's already happening & PSA cant find out if a card been fully cleaned or not. Also what I've seen is that you can restore old vintage cards by soaking them chemical water to remove creases & stans. I'm not onboard with type of restoring & PSA has graded to many of his work. PSA 2 are getting PSA 4 or higher thanks to his card care service.
@@KeyKiller74 we do not know it's already happening. The guy in the NorCal Sports Cards video did a shout out to Kurt Card Care. He didn't actually say that the product helped them get a PSA 10 on the Victor Wembanyama Black Prizm 1/1. It's all speculation.
@@RickInMaryland I'm saying right now people are buying Kurts card care & using it to clean there own cards & sending them to PSA.
They should recind the grade on the wemby one of one , or change it to ALTERED if it actually is and deem it upgradable.
What's wrong with cleaning cards?
Kurts Card Care doesnt deserve this. Sports card collectors have been cleaning and repairing cards with humidors for over a century 😅
Cleaning does not add material. Humidors only adjust moisture.
Any addition of compounds not present on the card before its addition by definition is an alteration...
Cleaning and humidity adjustments would be considered restorations, not alterations.
Polishing and waxing is altering... and PSA agrees publicly.
How this is complicated for people to understand is baffling.
Keep huffing your own shorts until your stiff in the pants, but unless you can convince Oxford to rewrite the dictionary, you're fooling yourself...
@@Mr.MimeisFrench I agree with you! does this include bacteria infested Cheeto breathe? Because if your okay with hot breath on a card but not a diluted cleaning solution your issue isn’t with “cleaning” a card or putting “foreign” substances on it… it’s with what chemicals you personally approve of. By definition water is a chemical.
Also hope they don’t use a microfiber cloth either.
There’s a gigantic difference between wiping oils/gunk off a card and trimming corners or re-coloring, pressing cards, etc…
@scubasteve2903 debris or contaminants can be cleaned without adding material . I have no problem removing dust or debris. It's adding surface compounds not present when the card was printed.
Not sure how anyone is confused at this point.
I never said chemicals I said compounds... adding a compound or wax after the card is printed is an alteration.
@Mr.MimeisFrench did you miss the emoji at the end of the comment weirdo????? Or are you too in your feels???? Hahahahaha
@jkais4074 I did actually lmao
I use the vaseline i have on my desk to smooth out micro-scratches
How do I apply to be a head grader? Seems like a fun job, although my wife might not like that…
Cleaning a card with a spray and microfiber is not altering.
Big difference between Kurt’s spray and cream
The cream leaves a residue not the spray.
What's the spray composed of?
The spray is water based solution with a little bit of isopropyl alcohol
You're allowed to be wrong, it's not altered at all, it's not adding anything to the card at all, it doesn't remove imbedded scratches or dents. It removes surface scratches and conditions the holo surface restoring it's original color... It's just cleaning ffs
Every form of polishing removes material. A scratch is damage and polishing removes material around it to make it appear less visible.
@@RattlePokemon again it doesn't add anything rather than restore original color, u can take a damp cloth and wipe it again after cleaning with Kurt's, nothing comes off. I urge you to try the product before you go "knowing" everything about it. An imbedded scratch it damage and cannot be removed or altered in any way, a surface scratch however is from dust and grime getting between binder sleeves or penny sleeves and over time cause swirling, surface scratches and or color fading. I can get the same result on most older holos with hot breathe and a clean microfiber cloth, is that unethical too?
So a surface scratch where the card is slightly damaged, isn't altered when you remove/fill in/buff out the scratches? Technically rubbing anything on a card is going to damage it on a microscopic level.
@@Faber0k no because you're not masking anything, surface scratches do not break the surface, the same difference when u use swirl remover on a vehicle, surface scratches gone and once rinsed the solution that was used is no longer there. The permanent scratches under the surface, however, remain.
@@Faber0k rattles logic is basically saying if u see a noticeable smudge and u use any worldly ability to remove said smudge(regardless of how it got there) , you altered the card.
Fuggneh Rattle TGIF the PSA fan boys gonna love this High 5!!
I don't care a 10 is a 10
9 a 9
8 a 8
Etc.
i would love to see a grading process from the companies, from the rooms there in and how are the cards are handled. i know people who sent their cards to be cleaned. he uses that cream a lot.
So they essentially admitted to touching up a 1 of 1? What the hell is the point of that? Risk outweighs the reward. PK's last stream talked about the ethics of, or the consequences of fixing things up. I'm not sure how anything will effect the cards in the long term. However I am super cautious. I wasn't quite aware of how this all works, but its clear that its sad to me. Another reason grading cards i causing people to do things they don't need to and potentially ruin more cards(if this indeed will ruin them long term). If a card is a PSA 8, imo, that is good condition, no need to try to do anything. But the money chasing is too much and turning a 8/9 into a 10 is taking very nice condition cards and needlessly putting them at risk for a short term monetary gain. Its not about the love of the cards, its about making easy money. It makes way more sense to just only send in good cards in the first place.
Again, a 1 of 1 card? Who gives a crap if its a 9 or a 10. There is ONLY ONE OF IT! It could be a 7 and still be the only one. FFS. Like the one ring card. Do you think it would matter if it got a PSA 10 instead of a PSA whatever it got? I forgot if it got a 8 or 9. Anyhow, it still sold because of the prestiege and being a 1 of 1 and the hype and the story and everything around it. Nobody cares what grade it got. Again, yeah, maybe they could have just given it a 10. Who cares! Sports card people are very sketchy and not thinking things through. the more I learn, the more I want to gatekeep the crap out of pokemon and keep them the hell away. i'll take a lightly played raw card over a PSA 9 that one of these guys tried to work on to get it from a PSA 8 to a 9 or 10. Sadly the targets for them will be the more expensive and hard to find cards, which makes those cards even MORE rare to find without their attempts to flip a quick buck. A psa 8 is fine to me. I accept that im probably just going to have to buy graded copies of rare cards at this point. I don't like it but thats just reality. But I'll be honest, as much as I want NM copies, I'll take a scuffed up raw copy nobody wants to grade because they know it will get a PSA 7 and nothing better if that is what I'm stuck with. So ironic. The best copies are the ones they are trying to work on. Whereas I would try to spruce up heavily played cards if anything. Very sad indeed. Again, got to keep them away. I pray to god that they don't try to trim stuff like that charizard. For the love of the cards, PSA needs to put a stop to all this debauchery.
It’s insane to me that known trimmerinos are walking among us
I like grading, but I am against this. The card is the card, grade it as it is! Just let the card be as it is
Let’s go!!
Is this where we sign up for the creaming?
Well if it was jizzed on by Kurt Cobain and it was DNA authenticated by PSA I definitely would
It’s called ‘restoration’
Shoutout to Kurt’s Kummy Kream
I've always just got raw the prices they all charge are ridiculous not worth it at all if your not trying to make money 😒
Kurt Kream baby 🎉
I kind of like kurt, he seems like a cool laid back guy. I've never bought his product but dude is about to sell a lot more with these videos/shout outs 😅.
Shout out to Kurt Cobain!!!!!!!! Gone too soon!!!!!! Nevermind
I used Kurt’s card care and got a PSA 11😘
Your killing me man dying laughing. Rubbing Kurt’s Cream on it! Lmao.
Awe yeah, Rattle upload time!☕️
Hockey now is still better than all the other sports 🤣
I collect clean 8s because alot of them are as clean as 9s and 10s 😅 its harder to trust individuals selling "NM" cards that arent even close to NM
What about any other items that are routinely polished to maintain condition (shoes, vehicles, bowling balls, jewelry, etc.), are those fake/altered items or were they just taken care of with products designed to maintain condition? I understand the logic related to sports cards and tcgs and obviously trimming a card to make it centered or have nice edges is definitely altering its appearance/condition without a doubt, but I’m not so sure it’s as black and white as you’re making it seem when it’s just polish that we’re taking about to maintain condition/appearance that the gloss sports card already has. I don’t think tcg’s like Pokémon/etc. have products that can be used in the same way but I could be wrong about that and just not heard of any.
Shoes and vehicles don’t get sent to grading companies to get a numerical 1-10 grade. It’s comparing apples to oranges. I understand those items get touched up to increase the price when selling, but graded cards aren’t shoes or vehicles. Wiping down cards with just a microfiber is fine, but using cleaning substances along with that is the issue, Psa has spoken out multiple times against using card cleaning products.
Huge difference between cars and cards my guy. Not even the same principle or logic. Cleaning a card is damaging the card. Cleaning and repairing a car help maintain the body to last longer. When a car get's wrecked, that wreck goes on the cars history report. Same should be done a card that some sht person decided to "clean" and scam someone out of money for what it truly was.
I feel like a simple blacklight would do the job!!!!
I’m not a expert or anything of that nature, but I was watching a video of whubby or it might be wubby, opened a magic alpha deck that people bought in ,and in my OPINION the two rares were showing but the top rare that is seen of the back of the card, I don’t think it was the same card when he flipped it, ( looking at the top right corner and the marks was not the same. And also cgc is going to grade every card for FREE. Too many sketchy things I see, like I said it was my OPINION, you can be the judge for yourself 😮
To a degree you do like
Psa you buy psa 8s to crack all day so that’s like your sweet spot for binder quality cards so in fairness you like psa and there scale works for you to a certain point but I get it I constantly beef over 9s being 10s and vice versa.
Psa isn't receiving money when Rattle buys that psa 8. If every card on sites like TCGplayer had good photos then people would feel more comfortable buying more expensive cards from there but at the moment there are tons of cards with no photos that say are near mint but aren't near mint. So that's why people like Rattle buy graded cards as that psa 8 will usually have photos and a psa 8 is usually the same price as a raw near mint copy. So it makes sense and doesn't mean Rattle likes or supports psa
will the real legit grading company please stand up .........
Nope.
Money > morals
I would love to have a ON SITE grading hub business, that could maybe branch from a not so shit grading company...have a small location, maybe one in every few states. SO YOU CAN DRIVE YOUR CARDS AND WATCH THEM BE GRADED! (Don't steal my business model I will sue you, like SB)
@@cooldaddyfunkhahaha.youre funny....like youre the first person to think of any of those concepts
Psa is the gold standard. Look at prices.
How do you feel about cleaning a card with a lightly dampened cloth if it has a little spot on it for your own personal collection
Why are you asking him about how you should feel about YOUR personal collection? The reason he talks about grading is because it affects everyone and big money is made from it
Rattle has videos covering this. Slightly damp cloth is fine to remove smudges and fingerprints, etc. Anything more is altering.
@@Kelly-ju1kw I actually will use unscented hand lotion too lol if it’s a darker spot and it removes scratches from holos but I don’t sell cards I just try to get the best deals on cards to complete older sets
Removing dirt and finger prints is perfectly fine and not comparable at all to using something like polish or anything Rattle is talking about
To anyone who hates rattles "opinion" aka VALUE JUDGEMENTS , why not do an experiment? Buy all Kurt's stuff, and try to flip it for profit, then, listen to rattle and see how much money you could have saved 😂. It's not hard to figure out.
Point at 3:00 is crazy!! Never thought about thus
Peope have used car wax on cards since the early 2000s
It doesn’t really matter what you think honestly when you grade thru psa or bgs and the card gets a high grade and it is a sought after card it’s going to be worth a lot no matter what your singular opinion is just saying
Yup. I don't see the big deal about cards that are being cleaned to look better. Its like trying to sell a car. Before you sell it you clean it, vacum it so it is more presentable and get the most for it. To each there own.
Paintings and books get restored to increase the value all the time. I'm retarded tho, only these new big brain collectors can gatekeep 😉
@@Liquid_spirits88 exactly dude it’s just a bunch of people hating on others that have good condition cards capable of scoring high grades lol like the people are professionals they do it all day everyday I trust them if anyone doesn’t then keep your cards raw lmao
Steal the laptop and he has no use for the cream.😖🎉
What’s hockey ? That like football eh?
And Humm. 😂😂😂
Hi rattle, are you alive? Very sorry it took me 4 days to realise you didnt upload but 2/3 days happened before so thats prob why i didnt worry yet
T
Streaming only this week. Look under streams.
Also don't upload on weekends anymore.
@@RattlePokemon ahh oke makes sense! Keep up the good work and goodluck fighting against piss(e)antbassik
14:20 happy friday!
*POKERADAR HAS LEFT THE CHAT*
why would a pack fresh card need to be polished and filled?
They can be damaged at the factory or moving around in a pack
Could have card boogers….card shavings and finger prints from pulling out the pack.
Thanks for letting me know, seems like a good way to make money… horrible.
where can i buy kurt’s
I agree with you on most things, however, I do disagree with this personally. But agree to disagree
I only trust master P with my cards
whats the first card psa graded?
Normalize cleaning and grading 🥰💯
It's not cleaning, it's polishing which is removing and/or adding material to the card.
@@RattlePokemon that method of polishing sounds more like altering, not just cleaning. Certainly a difference, and I agree that altering is wrong.
Hahaha…boy, oh boy
I don’t think he used anything he was clearly just paid for a shoutout. Not a big deal I’d take the money too. You have no proof this stuff damages the cards in any way if they can’t even detect it how do you think it hurts the cards? For someone who claims to love the hobby you spend so much time diminishing the grading companies integrity. Do you think that’s good for the hobby? I sure don’t.
I don't mind polished
early gang
You are paying for the grade not the card. 😂😂😂
Grading is a joke. But ao many people buy into it that it's legitimate in its own way. It just goes to show that people can't think for themselves
Such an elitist view.
Early gang 🎉 early gang 🎉
Bro sounds like he’s never been told no a day in his life. 30+ sounding like a cry baby 😂
Bro makes a living being a Pokémon snitch. 🤡
Early gang gang🎉
by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away by your logic if the mona lisa gets dmged should we just throw it away
Man dude at this point you make it act like kirk personally screwed you over. He litterly lives rent free in your mind.
Yeah you lost me chief totally disagree here unsubscribing if you can’t clean up the card then wtf
Go ahead. Polishing is not cleaning, it's removing material around damage in order to make it less visible.
@@RattlePokemon I wanna apologize you are correct my card guy does not use the polish he just uses the spray that helps remove dirt your right I was wrong my applogies
@@zaqxswcdevfrbgtqazwsunsub then snowflake