Card Cleaning KILLER: PSA Working On New Detection
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- Опубліковано 24 кві 2024
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Card Cleaning
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Yea they coming for my boy Kurt smh…I can already see it now. PSA will have “their” own version of Kurt’s card care kit that they have sanctioned as “safe”
The biggest problem i see is that a big part of our hobby is searching for an buying raw cards that you think will grade well and then sending them for grading. Either for PC or resale. A raw card may change hands several times before being graded. If PSA starts marking cards altered that have been bought in good faith, it’ll start to scare collectors away from doing that.
Read my comment because I don’t think anyone is using these chemicals on cards they intend to keep or not grade. I may be wrong but i hope I’m not. If someone cared about the money so much to buy the crap (it’s not cheap) then I would suspect they would be grading and flipping the card if it wasn’t detected.? Idk 🤷🏽♂️ just a guess
This was exactly my thought. No way PSA will "sniff" foreign substances. It's smoke to calm down the small community who is against cleaning cards.
PSA ceo said the grader will beable to smell Kurt’s care wax. PSA will train the graders like drug sniffing airport dogs to Sus out if Kurt’s care wax was applied. If the grader detects Kurt care wax he will start barking and scratching at the card to signal he smells wax.
😂❤
I’ve never heard of such a more correct thing 😂
Lmao LAX needs to hire them
Imagine getting paid money to sniff cardboard
I need a good laugh today, kudos!
PSA needs to work on their grading skills. Tell them quit, rolling the dice and picking a number.
Definitely. I've seen 10s that shouldn't even be 9s
Thats what happens when you dont upload a grading report or sub-grades to certifications. Fine, dont change the label, but the cert # should have the report.
I should be able to tell the difference between the same three PSA 9's on the same card. But you cant.
If I prioritize Centering over Surface issues.....as a collector, I should be able to pick out the card that have the sub-grades I prefer.
I actually have no idea why people like PSA so much. They seem average to me for what you get.
Look at restoration methods used by art collectors.
@@shawnklunk556 I agree exactly.
People do restorations on million dollar pieces. There’s nothing wrong with it
@@johnwaynecollection just gotta experiment alidl an see what doesn't change the appearance
There is literally no way to detect it. You're good guys. Keep cleaning .
PSA needs to decertify the 1/1 black Wemby prizm if this is their stance. It was confirmed and gloated about that Kurt's Card Care was used for that card before submitting. I guarantee the black shimmer also used their products.
All I do is wipe with a micro fiber cloth and get 10’s easily
If not scratched, this is literally all you need to do 🙌👍
It never ceases to amaze me the differences between comic book and card collecting. Comic book cleaning is standard practice. I wonder where CGC stands on card cleaning since they have no problem with cleaning comic books.
On that side of the floor we have the authentication section of our grading team, over there are the encapsulators and just over there are the 'sniffers'.
What happens to a non-waxed card in a PSA 10 holder that has become faded from UV rays? Will that trigger compensation from PSA's guarantee, since it will no longer be a 10?
That’s exactly why they grade based off the fees. To compensate bad grades.
I would say yes based off the logic the President of PSA said in Geoff’s Podcast.
That’s exactly why we pay a percentage off the value of the card and not just a fee.
Extra money goes into a fund for these type of guarantees.
Don’t be a dumbass & leave your card in the sun… yall are morons now
Re: the card cleaning debate, I would reach out to Kurt directly and invite him onto the show to share his view on card cleaning. Would be interesting to hear his take and perspective given the controversy his Robinson submission clearly stirred up. I realize some people are upset about this, but I believe he has simply exposed an ongoing problem with graders (like PSA) and would love to hear his thoughts on the matter.
This was one of your better videos. I enjoyed it
But the wemby 1/1 that was cleaned is still active. Thank god that bgs is now even cheaper quicker
BGS is gunna make a comeback 📈
@@theeasterbunny8308don’t call it comeback been here for years
Also how about sun fading. A psa 10 thats faded isn’t still a 10 is it?
Great point. And PSA offers slabs with zero UV protection. But they really care,? Sure.
@@rhysorourke6164 all these cards shops i see, have slabs out in the open getting hammered by sunlight daily. In a few months they fade, no way on earth I’m buying a PSA 10 that looks like it’s been to Cancun ten times.
Foreign substance? Who decides what's foreign? There are plenty of other great Grading companies guys, especially ones who don't charge you extra because your cards worth more. Sounds like psa just wants another way to give you an authentic label
Thank you PSA for being a disservice to the hobby
Kurt is the man. True sports card lover, in it for the restoration not the $. Go Kurt
Kurt has posted numerous cards in the past that he's cleaned years ago and they still look perfect. If backyard breaks had a cleaning kit they sold or Jeff I'm sure psa would endorse it. I would be willing to bet in the near future one of these big influencers will come out with a product that's partnered with psa.
If it's 3am and you need sleep I highly recommend this interview with the PSA guy...
Dirty cards are clean cards. Just with dirt. This thumbnail has me SENT. 😅
PSA just jealous they didn't think of card cleaning as part of their overall scam
exactly. and geoff wilson acting like “oh the juice or the spray or whatever”….
i guarantee geoffys on his client list
Great stuff
PSA is already taking high quality photos of cards after grading. They should just change their money back guarantee clause to exclude cards that don't match their photos. This way if a cleaned stain comes back, or scratches re-appear they are not ok the hook. Future buyers on the secondary market can reference pics if a card looks overgraded and make buying decisions themselves.
If someone uses cleaner to remove some stains, gets a 10, and immediately sell it as a PSA 10, some amount of time goes by, and the stains come back, the buyer got totally screwed under your proposed solution. It would make people very hesitant to buy graded cards if PSA isn't guaranteeing the grade over time. Part of their guarantee is that the slab will protect the card and hold its grade and its condition. But if they take that guarantee away if the card looks different years later, they lose a huge part of their value add to the customer.
That is a good point. Guess there is not an easy answer if they can't detect when a card has been cleaned.
Psa answer is perfect cuz I've wondered if the stuff comes back
Can you imagine you go get your car detailed and you take it in for warranty and then the dealership says we can detect that your car’s been cleaned we’re going to avoid your warranty. You read the paperwork and it says the car has been altered?
Secondly, you know how many people are going to get altered, for a pack fresh card? I am sure we will see more people get this then they will “catch” being actually cleaned, restored.
does it mean a card wont turn yellowish without card cleaning solution in a PSA10 slab. Is the PSA acrylic slab UV protected for the next 10 years? haha
It is crazy how this is going. I get the point of wiping a card off to get the surface dust but what’s gonna happen if I buy a card at a show do I gotta smell it and test it before I buy it because I don’t know what other people have done it and now I’m gonna be held accountable when I send it to PSA.
Yes. How do you detect trimming? You try and look for it.
Wow, i did not know the extent to how people use crazy methods of cleaning cards, i retracted my comment on why card cleaning would'nt be bad, but i was just thinking about wiping fingerprints off and dust that was it, not these crazy extreme methods everyone explained, i think would be going beyond cleaning , more like altering. Thank you Geoff, sci team and psa for opening up my eyes on what to look at for and being careful about your purchases for buyers and sellers.
PSA we don’t know what happens. Early chrome turning green are they buying back manufacturing issues as well?
Store looks empty
😂😂😂😂
Like a blockbuster video store from the 2000’s
New subscriber, and back into cards with my old and the new. Love your videos, from Indiana here. Can you suggest any good trustworthy shops closer to Indiana, your shop is in ATLANTA. Any recommendations to shops near Southern Indiana? THANKS
There's a clip in the sequel to the movie Silence of the Lambs( Hannibal) where experts are holding a piece of paper with tweezers up to their noses trying to detect the presence of certain substances. It's a fun thought - a room full of graders, tweezers in hand, sniffing cards.
I’m talking about a person that goes to a show and buys a card from a dealer. That card may have been through 3 sets of hands before they bought it. Who knows what’s happened in that time. If this person bought it to grade and didn’t know it had been cleaned, what happens when osa grades it altered? That’s going to scare people away from buying raw cards period to have them graded.
That's exactly right and how it should be.
No different than trimming. Someone buys a card in good faith raw but it was trimmed many years and hands ago. PSA detects it's trimmed and graded it appropriately. If you want to be guaranteed, buy an already graded card.
If anything, the fact that a person can order a card printer off ali baba should be enough of a reason to not buy ungraded cards. Even Prizms and fancy looking cards are easy to copy now look exactly like the real cards. I don't even buy raw anymore just because of that. I also buy allot of them off ebay. That way the card has been certified real by them and they are on the hook if your card ends up being a fake.
There’s a difference. It may be difficult, but any collector should be able to detect a trimmed card at a table. That’s something that can be measured objectively. If you buy a trimmed card, that’s on you. It’s unreasonable to expect the average collector to be able to detect Kurt’s card care wax was used three dealers ago.
Well psa will get more custmers from the scare
Wiping fingerprints off of a chome card is a bit different than soaking a freakin card in a solution. So yes. That should've be allowed.
What is this show called?
LOL THE THUMBNAIL OF THIS VIDEO !! HAHAHAH 🤣🤣🤣🤣 CLASSIC!!
I thought the same
The Mona Lisa was Cleaned by Kurt's cards and at Close Inspection has Cracks throughout PSA considered the Painting as Altered😂
I have no issue with cleaning/restoring cards if the restoration is disclosed to potential buyers.
There in lies the dilemma.....because the people doing this WILL NOT disclose the cards that have been soaked because all they care about is profit. That's why all the comments about preservation and all that go out the window, because the people doing it arent doing it to "preserve historical documents", they're doing it to sucker a few more dollars out of an unsuspecting collector. If.given a choice, they know a collector would always choose a card that hasn't been cleaned vs one that has been messed with. That's why they will never disclose.
I purchased soaked card gone bad. Shared it and taking it to PSA at national
Yet the top graded T206 Honus Wagner sitting in a PSA holder which was admittedly trimmed, has not be deactivated. Please explain that..
Unless common people can detect if this stuff is done on raw cards at shows and eBay. This either won’t happen, or cripple the hobby beyond repair
Great news, card cleaning is nothing but altering!
I agree with psa... no matter what change happens, changing a card from being 1 way to another wether cleaned or not, it's called altering it it's been changed lol
Gotta pre cut the corners on the penny sleeves, card shells running laps
So how does it work for the thousands of cards likely already cleaned and got 10s?
There is a process to restore historical documents, paintings and has been used for years.
Have you thought about having Kurt on discuss his side? His wax doesn’t fill in scratches it’s not like a puddy.
if i leave a psa 10 card in the sun for a month, the card will be altered too in the psa holder. do i get my money back?
You don’t get your money back for being a dumbass
The BIG KEY use black light on your cards for any residue
The least believable statement in the history of the Internet is "we are on the hook." Followed by t-pott and doug saying that made sense. Come on.
No one on earth thinks that PSA would ever pay a dime in a situation like that. Zero chance.
I’m interested in when PSA has ever paid out on the “grade guarantee” or else this whole argument is worthless.
I like the new company TAG grading. The reports they do on each card is out of this world. I really hope they become big enough for it to be worth grsdong with them. Until then PSA will remain the top dog when it comes to resale value.
THEY MAY PUT RESTORED ON THEY LABEL
Now I have to worry about buying raw cards. How am I suppose to know if the card has wax on it?
Thanks to kurt and the covid noobs, you wont.
It will be oily / waxy on the surface, residue.
Ummm, you've ALWAYS had to worry about buying raw cards. Trimming has been a thing forever. So have fakes. You have to learn to detect it. If you want a guarantee, buy the card graded.
Comic collectors all keeping quiet and they're heads down....
If you do something without any evidence left behind. You're good.
Priceless art is cleaned
The thing is cgc, approves of cleaning comics, an I believe they offer cleaning. Psa is just a joke
What they need to do is get a little Kurt’s Card Carr detection doggy 🐶 that would be so freaking adorable and also super hilarious! Give the pup a vest and everything
Wait so I can return all my PSA 10s because they are not really !0s and get money equal to 10's ???
I have many chrome cards, and stadium club cards from the early 2000’s that are in PSA slabs that have developed “oxidation”. These cards were slapped long before cleaning was a thing. If some of these new cards develop the same problem in 10 or 15 years I think everyone will be quick to blame “cleaning” instead of natural causes. I have also sent these dirty cards that are in PSA slabs to get reholdered and the dirty cards came back looking brand new with no trace of the oxidation on it. I’m guessing PSA had to use something to get that film off because it definitely takes more than hot breath and a microfiber to remove it. Just something to think about before blaming all long term effects on cleaning.
Wax removal with a cloth is super common in the hobby and nothing wrong with that and impossible to detect if that has been "cleaned" off.
What happens when they damage cards?
Listen, it is simple. PSA can put out a disclaimer and take a high-def pic of the cards (front and back) and the disclaimer can simply state that PSA does not protect against chemical breakdown due to cleaning etc. So long as the original pic is there, the liability would not be on them. The other thing - are they now saying that if they start checking and they don't catch one, they will be on the hook for it? I doubt it. So why not just make the disclaimer and move on. They cannot catch everything. They need to focus on grading and grading properly. The rest is what it is.
Mom’s pulling their kids when they see Doug in the store. Might as well be wearing a wife-beater 😂
PSA is probably going to release their own (exact same) cleaning product, and force us to buy that instead lol.
Force you? Lmao they gonna take your credit card & buy it?
@@swizzle1199 I won't be buying any of it, as I believe grading is overrated for people like me who pc. You know what I mean though. If PSA sees an opportunity to steal the cleaning market, they will absolutely jump on that opportunity, even if that comes by way of hypocritically denouncing the practice as they do so.
PSA is gonna make Kurt head of their card cleaning operations and just put their name on his product.😂
Now it’s cleaned cards too. I can’t smell Kurt’s card care on a card. So are they gonna teach us how to detect it or just keep letting people send them in and charging for nothing.
So when will the Wemby PSA 10 be deactivated? Asking for a friend
The only kurt card care put into that card was a "microfiber wipe" ....yeah right
I love the show but can you tell Doug to at least iron his shirt before the show. 😂
haha is your thumbnail the Mr clean guy😂
oooh damn those bcw storage things look incredible!! however just like their current offerings they really need to step up their distribution and manufacturing game. So many of their products that I want to buy, but theyre just never available.
actually at $100.... yea nah, thats about double what it should be if that
The circle of grading comes back. Any time something happens, people will have to re-submit their cards. Ha-Ha. re-surface. Good one.
What about holding their employees accountable for more consistent grading.
How about asking and finding why does PSA charge commission on top of the fee to get card graded cause it came back as a 10. That should have been a priority question. But we guess no point of PSA giving out 10 left and right if they not going to get a piece of the pie.
If a kid writes on it, 10 years later it's 'MK' and not 'altered.' If a card gets worn, it's the lower grade; but it's not altered. If there's a foreign substance on the card that may degrade it, then it shouldn't be slabbed. I saw a 54 Topps Gordie Howe that was burned in a fire (I forgot to bid, went for $75 lol.) I'd rather be allowed to send it to a paper restoration company and have it restored like a piece of art and have a 'restored' number grade, rather than 'altered or even refusing to slab it (if a card is rebuilt, some have said that would be illegal; I think it should simply be disclosed on the label.) PSA could hire art restorers and offer that service. Coin graders consider cleaning a bad thing, personally I don't care; one would polish silverware (why not silver coins.)
Why is there never hockey talk?
PSA also let a 1 of 1 Victor Wembanyama out the door with a 10 after the dude gave a shout out to Kurt's card care in THEIR LOBBY!!!
What about topps chrome & finest cards from the 90's that are "hulking" more and more every year just sitting in their high grade slabs? Should they also lose their grade as they "degrade" over time? What about the fact that old slab GEM MT's would often only now be 8's if they were graded today? What if a highly sought after card trades hands several times? Maybe several times cash transactions at shows...eventually gets graded and comes back altered, completely unbeknownst to the submitter. This is kind of getting ridiculous. If it doesn't look visibly altered, and meets specs, it should be graded.
The Hobbie is so lost. The bubble is real. The abuse of cards...hey psa...remember the gretsky honus wagner trim scandal. Gonna "decertify" that?
They are going to denounce Kurt untill they or fanatics develops a card cleaner and says theirs is better
You mean ways to mess up the cards for more market control?
Instead of screaming at card cleaners, how about we hold manufacturers of cards like panini and topps responsible to have better quality control so you don't have to consider cleaning a card that comes from a box that costs a $1000 or more.
Do you clean your house, car, boat or anything before you get it appraised or sell it? As long as not altering who cares???
Jeff should cut hair like thumbnail
Seriously. They need to focus on being consistent in their grading , first and foremost .
Perhaps PSA could train some dogs to sniff out Kurt's products.
I understand PSA or other card carding concern. However, just like in comicbook collecting instead of sending the cards back they should put altered (when comicbooks have been restored they have a red label) on the card and a notice or letter stating this card has been altered and voids the lifetime guarantee of being perfect 10 or lower.
Some psa grades themselves are wrong. Ive seen cards grade 10 that clearly look like it should be a 9 or 8.
How about PSA gets a cleaning kit from Kurt. Does some cleaning on cards. Take the cards, do some high tech advanced aging on them and determine if there's long term negative results. If not, let it be. Simple as that.
Game over
I know Hollywood used to use asbestos flakes for Snow flakes in movies 🍿🎥 so I think caution is what needs to be used in modern times and card grading...
what does PSA say about damaging your cards when they close the holders on the card automatically giving it a 6 when card was a 9-10 . not much i bet
my 97 topps chrome psa 10 is not green thanks a lot PSA, it doesnt look like a 10 now thanks a lot
I understand the logic behind what will a card look like in 20 years however I disagree because there is no way a psa 10 from 20 years ago would grade a 10 now so that argument holds no water with me
really tasteless of tpot to call people haters simply because they don't agree with him.
RIP Pristine Auction
BGS has definitely worked on grading ... getting them sent out faster. Out of 30 cards I expected maybe 1 (10) - got about 8 (9.5). Tell ya what based on OCD and being a perfectionist I agree with these grades. If 2 or even 5 or more came back at 10 from PSA .... yeah I'd be happy because of money. But, based on their honesty tarnishing my HONESTY I have a problem with that.
If PSA was so concerned with the condition of the card in 20 years. You would think they would be using UV Resistant & nicer slabs by now. Even on high high end cards. You get a plastic 50 cent slab?!? Also vinyl & plastic breaks down over time. So PSA slabs are a bit more violative themselves over the long term more than the cards. Also what about all the Finest 95 that have turned green in PSA 10 slabs?!? PSA should be bit more concerned with their consistency of their grading & their new grading standards. And I wish you brought up how tons of PSA10s from years ago clearly wouldn't get PSA10s today. PSA has changed their standards. That's more concerning than people spraying some cleaning solution on their shiny Prizm cards.
Now we have a problem. With what was put out by PSA makes some sense. BUT, this may be the end of the selling of RAW cards. Which a lot of people like. But you can’t tell if it’s been cleaned then you sell to someone who grades it. They get screwed. Doesn’t make sense.
It makes perfect sense. It's no different than trimming. You have to learn to detect it. If you want an absolute 100% guarantee, buy a graded card. There is ALWAYS a risk buying a raw card and having it graded.
It’s BS for some of us doing it right. I feel Iike too many idiots that are greedy in this. Idiots are ruining the hobby
You know damn well they don’t care about the cleaning they just mad that they didn’t come out with it first.
Webenyama total market cap includes no autos... In prizm or any other flagship rookie. That money has to go somewhere.... Victor's big prizm cards will be constant record breakers. What big rookie has no autos... Especially this big.
Maybe psa should offer cleaning themselves
Sorry Doug, but I think T-Pott has the right idea. I see the QB/WR "handcuff" will greatly enhance player prices during and immediately after the draft.