Lithium Ion Battery Fire Bag | Big Ol' Boom Part 2
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- Whether you own a Onewheel GT, a Meepo Hurricane, an Acedeck X1, some other electric skateboard, or especially an electric unicycle, your chosen PEV contains a relatively large lithium ion battery pack. When these things are poorly assembled, or treated improperly, or abused and subject to poor treatment, they can be a massive hazard.
This is the second in a series of videos where a manufacturer sends me a "fire proof bag", or some kind of safety device to help reduce the risk and damage from a battery failure/fire.
Obviously, these things are interesting to watch, but they also serve as a reminder of how bad things can get when you take their power and energy for granted.
Many thanks to Drew for helping to arrange the testing location:
/ drewelia
Thank you to Ty for helping to film:
/ @aka_ty37
Previous video with another fire bag:
• What If Your Battery E...
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Thank you for your continued testing and this video! I am so confused…why is it so hard for the fire bag manufacturers to understand that everything needs to be vented up in a controlled direction! Having the flames point at the floor when the bag inevitably bulges out is unacceptable. Melting handles and buckles are unacceptable too. We can’t always be there as soon as the fire starts when attempting to drag the bag outside (or some safer location). The handles, hardware, zippers/Velcro, etc., need to survive. I’m not saying it’s easy to do that, just that it’s necessary.
Have you seen the products from firesak? From the testing I've seen, they seem to be really good.
@@KendamaRomania I haven’t but I’ll check them out. Let Mario Contino know too.
@@KendamaRomania Don't touch Fire sack, it's junk, chech out the videos on You Tube
⚡ *Those guitar riff edits* 🎶😂🔥⚡
another great video 👏🏼👏🏼
I've got a lot of "TNT" in my garage. Let me know when you have a product that works that I can use.
If I find one that stands out, I’ll let you know. So far, best practices are monitoring charge levels, storage environments, limiting physical damage to the device, and most importantly, being discerning about the quality of the products. When costs are cut, they’re usually cut where customers can’t see, and unfortunately that’s usually in the innards that matter.
As fun as these science experiments appear, safety is always paramount. I'm glad you're able to test these to raise awareness to both consumers and the producers of these products.
It should also humble PEV owners to take their batteries seriously.
Nicely done! Have the bag manufacturers not done such tests, or have they done them and decided to keep it to themselves? I don't know which is worse.
Thanks for these tests. I don't understand how companies can send these to you for testing without testing it themselves. I'll never buy a fire safety bag unless it has the Mario seal of approval
Ok so- with all of this research which I'm super grateful for- how do we actually prevent fire damage from these things when:
No garage, shed gets too hot/cold depending on the time of year.
I got an ebike and it's my main means of getting around but I have no idea where I could put the battery where a fire wouldn't be a problem.
I've looked around and most vids are just "Put it in a cool dry CLIMATE CONTROLLED place and I'm not sure there's a spot in my house that isn't at some risk. I got a basement but it's pretty packed in nearly every room so I don't know where I can put my battery without some kind of risk.
Aside from supervised charging sessions, what are your recommendations for storage?
Have you guys ever considered testing the Ice fireproof bag. they have youtube video out with a test but that subject given it is their own product.
Love it, super informative :)
Good discussion in the previous video, and good to see a follow-up, seeing as the result you had wasn't so good first time round. It seems to be the zips and flaps etc that are a problem in both of these bags? Fairly obvious in designing one no?
Thanks for the testings, but do be very careful and stay up wind! Nasty stuff.
You should test a Zarges case. It seems like bags just will not work as I can't see how a zipper or hook-and-loop can contain the force of the fire. From what I can see, Zarges cases are all metal and designed for this. I also have seen Bat-Safe cases that look like they'll work well.
whether, the flames go up or down, when escaping from the bag, they will still burn your house down
honestly, i think the problem with the design is that they are only using one method of fire suppression.
it seems like they are just trying to starve it of oxygen....by using porous materials. but these all seem to be glorified sand blankets. with seams [which will leak with pressure.
Absolutely no hate on these companies, this is still probably better than nothing as it at least contains the explosion to an area but it's my observation.
I think you should fight a chemical fire, with some sort of chemicals. something simple to help the user "buy time" instead of trying to completely suppress the fire [an admittedly difficult task]
something like a one or several canister of fire hydrant fluid that "explodes" or melts at high heats might be cool. Or maybe the seams are lined with them somehow. it'll make a mess but its better than the alternative.
great vid.
I really feel like bags aren't gonna be it. I feel like the only way to play this game for keeps is to build a fire box which is deliberately vented out of the structure. Several layers of fire-rated drywall, with a galvanized duct out a window fitting (window AC style) maybe? the flames themselves don't propagate very far, if you contained them in a rigid fireproof material and gave all the hot gases somewhere to go...
Without going too deep into it is it not just pretty simple t say
Okay potential energy of 500,000 joules ( just randomly picked for this example )
Force required to rupture rip stop nylon 250 joules
...the bag WILL fail.
If you want something burn proof you need a box with a vent to outside, nothing else is going to contain this amount of energy, and if it does not have an external vent then the fire is not the only concern.
Respectfully intended Mario :)
Can you recommend a bag for a gps tracker with an lithium battery so I can store the tracker in the car without being worried all the time. Thanks!
The Ebike revolution is not slowing down, if anything it's accelerating with larger and larger battery's becoming the norm on ebikes, I can think of 5 different brands
right now that have 35 AMP and larger size battery's even up to 60 AMPS,
We need more up to date safety measures and fireproof bags that are effective, so what's the latest out there? This video is now almost 13 months old:
Can fire or explode even battery not charging ?
Fire!!! Hahaha 🍖🥔
Do a battery breakdown of JW battery packs. I personally know three people that have had an issue with their chips, very questionable wire work. We need more unbiased transparency.
Oy! Oy! Oy! 💣
If the company tested the product they would have known the product would not suppress a battery fire. At least not well enough to stop a home from catching on fire. A reputable company doesn't call it good after one small test.
So does that mean they are intentionally lying about the capabilities?
IF you have a runaway of a cell the safest available place to put the battery is the oven, your oven will be done likely but your house will survive after you air it out.
Sounds a bit difficult to shove a flaming PEV into a conventional home oven… 🤔
@@TheBoardGarage I'm not speaking from exp, but the oven is near my charge station and I know my one wheel would fit as would the external batteries.. but yeah, I'd sure rather not have to try :)
@@MrDmadness your onewheel would fit in your oven? With the door shut? Like, longways? Diagonally? What is the model of your oven, just curious. I've never seen a residential oven that could accommodate a onewheel, and very few commercial ovens, if any, in all of the restaurants I've ever worked at over the course of 25 years.
@@itsarlynbitch diagonally it easily fits. Xr.. easy .
Haven't watched the other video yet, but for a test this video is rather lacking in any actual data.
(edit: If you think this, watch the first video)
If you haven't watched the other video, there's not much sense in bothering to post this comment. The testing rig was explained in detail, and displayed in the previous video. Alter Bags told me it was a prototype bag; it also doesn't appear to be for sale anywhere. Therefore, I believe it is indeed, a prototype. The data I collect, the high speed footage of multiple angles that was shot, are things that I save and use as I see fit to inform my business, my collaborations with other builders and companies, and is my intellectual property to use as I see fit.
If you have issues with this video, the previous one you didn't watch, or any of my testing, you can either seek other testing that suits your fancy, or develop your own if you're so able and willing.
@@TheBoardGarage Sorry I didn't mean to come off so negative. The testing is thoroughly explained in the first video. I like your channel man, and appreciate you taking the time to do this testing and improve the awareness of how much damage these things can do when they fail.
What amount of which type of li-ion cell was merc'd in this video? as someone who has no dog in the fireproof bag fight, I'm trying to imagine the number of inches of leg I would lose during a potential catastrophic failure of my 18s2p Samsung 50S 21700 battery pack, and I need a baseline to go off of for that estimate. Related question: let's say someone had two x-lites fail right off the bat and has been ridin' dirty for ~six months, are there charging recommendations to minimize the chances of riding my board with a peg leg some day.
Like know this is not the safest scenario, but until it can be, what's the safest way to be unsafe, and is there any indicators I can look for during charge or otherwise that might indicate if one of my cells starts to drift a little (or a not so little)? Fungineers guy said he rode for a year with no BMS, and only one of his cells was a tiny bit off and was easily brought back to parity with no lasting consequence when he did finally BMS-up. Should I expect a similar outcome? :-)
The cell amount and type used here are about the same as they were in the first bag test. That’s to say, about 550Wh. The 18s2p 50S cell pack is 648Wh.
At no point should you be using a lithium ion pack without a functioning BMS. Those who say they did it, should not be advising anyone else to mimic what they’re doing.
@@TheBoardGarage i am buying a funwheel BMS tomorrow if they aren't sold out.
@itsarlynbitch If you have a pack wired for the XLITE, it won’t work natively with the Fungineers BMS. It would need to be rewired or an adapter would have to be made.
@@TheBoardGarage i anticipated this as I lurk on your store and articles frequenty and have as of recent noticed that it's been added as 3rd configuration for your battery products.
I've successfully rewired a stock battery for xlite, I imagine it won't be an incredibly dissimilar process?
@@TheBoardGarage well for some reason I remembered the xlite v3 being like 315 bucks but I now that I check it's only like 40 bucks more than the fungbms. I may as well stick with what I'm familiar with. I wasn't really thrilled about compromising on CAN support and single-app UX convenience anyway ordered an x-lite.
I imagine this comment will help to ease your mind when you wake up in a cold sweat wondering if my BMS situation has been taken care of and feverishly check these comments in hopes I've mitigated my eventual pegleg (or 'vescleg' as it would have come to been known as)