That’s exactly why I store my lipo batteries in a metal fire box with a storage charge on them and I cycle them once a month. Most of mine are 2 - 3 cell lipos for RC vehicles. Great information,thank you.
pretty sure li-ion batteries do not need to be cycled, older chemistries like nicd and nimh need to be cycled to stay maintained from shelf life, self discharge and crystal growth, but li-ion batteries don't have any memory effect or significant self discharge to need cycling except if they aren't used for years on end, 1 cycle every year should be plenty, also if you keep all your batteries in one box, then you will loose all of them if one of them shorts and it will likely be more dangerous
great illustration Cap-D 👍this is the kind of "granular information" the public needs on Lion battery safety that we're NOT getting. i've been studying/following Lion fires for now for 16 years and i have YET to hear any experts address this particular issue (which in hindsight would seem rather obvious to do).
Okay, this is the third video in a row that I've watched of yours, right after John Cadogan recommended your channel. I subscribed on the first but now fear I'm going to dive deep into the Lithium battery rabbit-hole and end up down-trading my 12-volt LiPOs to AGMs again ... or not. However, I have gained a far deeper respect for caring for and maintaining all my LiPOs, from 18650s to the 129A/H 12-volts. One saving grace is that I have a V6 petrol shitbox Ford Courier, so an EV fire won't ever happen for me...unless some Tesla driver in hands-free mode t-bones me.
you assume all lithium batteries are the same, but in most car battery sized lithium batteries, the common chemistry is lifepo4 which is durable, safe and does the job better than lead acid with no downsides
Thank you for sharing this information. I've got a few tool batteries that often set around at or near full charge. In fact I was in the habit of always fully charging them after I'd use one. I'm going to stop doing that. From now on, I'll be sure they are at a low charge state when not in use. Probably get a fire box to keep them in too.
Great content, clear, even obvious. You know it's good material when you immediately wonder why you haven't seen it before. Thanks, liked, subscribed!👍✌
Most standards requires batteries to be under 30% SOC for shipping. One thing to note. The SOC that your device shows, likely is not the SOC of the battery.
As a home owner and life long handyman, I’m considering making a dedicated portable vented metal firebox to keep all my power tool batteries inside this device for peace of mind, not sure on leaving it outside the home but the desert heat might not be good for them but man these things are terrifying. Ive tested old cell phone batteries myself with a puncture and boy what a rocket engine it was. I dont feel comfy with any of these batteries within 30ft of my home
Great video's thank you. I don't have an EV but I do use Lithium battery banks like Jackery for example. While much smaller I believe these may present a similar risk and how would their explosive characteristics alter from an EV? Many thanks,
It would be good to understand why and how the state of charge affects the failure or ignition. For instance, is the pressure higher within the cells and do the concentrations of flammable gases vary proportional to the state of charge?
It's at a higher energy level. Very similar to the example using air pressure. It's not pressure, but rearranging electrons to be in a less stable position.
@@StacheDTrainingthanks for video, i always leave all lithium products at empty or flat charge state at home when I travel but this video explained alot. NiHm batteries are they safer
@@pietpompiepompiepiet940 Be careful with leaving them totally discharged, that can cause damage to the battery over time. Also, over discharging a lithium ion battery, which shouldn't be possible thanks to the BMS, can also cause instability. Your best bet is to store your batteries somewhere cool and dry and inside a closed box specifically designed for battery charging and storage to contain the fire/explosion just in case something goes wrong. And the further away from combustible materials you can keep the storage box, the better off you will be.
@@StacheDTrainingIts not so much "rearranging the electrons" (that would be a capacitor), but changing the chemical composition in the battery - its "chemical potential energy". In the charged state the chemicals are more likely to decompose rapidly, releasing that energy as they revert to the lower energy state composition. They normally do that in a controlled fashion through the electrolyte, but stick a nail through it, and the electrical energy release is sufficient to start the process in an uncontrolled manner AND MORE; rather than liquid state chemical changes, the excess heat triggers new chemical reactions, like releasing hydrogen and oxygen )not a good mix in the presence of electrical sparks or other intense heat sources).
Hi! This is great information, thank you! I have a wrangler 4xe (hybrid) with a current recall saying not to charge or park by a structure but they’re saying it’s safe to drive. I’m curious to see what you think, if I’m not charging and the battery level is low (I understand it’s never zero even without charging?) will I presumably have time to get out and get my dog out of the jeep before anything catastrophic would happen? Due to the current market and the unfixed recall (currently no fix from stelantis) I’m very underwater with what I owe if I wanted to trade in. So I’m just trying to decide if it’s unsafe enough that I should take that hit or if I just need to wait it out until they have a fix. Is it even safe to drive after that recall/fix? I have watched videos that talk about the battery in the 4xe being a design flaw due to the placement under the back seat, saying it’s unsafe. Thanks for your time!
I've have a rhetorical question and a actual question: Why are you allowed to park and charge an electric car in an attached garage when according to a German study they are four times more likely to burst into flames as opposed to a gas powered vehicle and why do American studies contradict the German findings. We all pay a couple hundred dollars more for water heaters now that have an enclosed combustion chamber so they do not to ignite Gasoline fumes in garages because people were dying every year. This is my first time watching any of your videos and I'm assuming you're a firefighter based on your knowledge of fires and your mustache. Besides only parking and charging electric vehicles outside of an attached garage, can you think of a solution to charge and store these vehicles In an attached garage without danger to human life?
The American studies you're looking at are probably secretly funded and published by 3rd parties are working in the interests of American auto manufacturers to skew public perception of electric vehicles. I wouldn't place much weight on statistics and supposed studies published out of the US, especially consider that Europe has been a number of common American foods, ingredients and food production methods citing health risks. We are not a healthy nor honest country.
Good video, but does the SIZE of the battery also have an effect?? A Tesla battery and an RC car battery at thirty per cent each would still be significantly different no??
Generally different battery chemistry types as well. Rc car batteries are Lipo batteries generally, which imo are much more fragile and susceptible to damage. If you had the same weight of cylindrical cells as Lipo pouches in an array, I would be more nervous of the Lipo
Hi ..i want to ask what happen if using the lithium ion battery until 0% then charge normally but not until over charged??? Are the battery will have same problem??
A cell phone has about 14Wh of power. An EV has 50,000 - 100,000Wh of power. It's like comparing grabbing a down power line vs. sticking your tongue on a 9v battery.
@@StacheDTraining…depends on the environment. For example, say a person is on a sailboat and has a battery ignite on the cabin cushions while the person is outside tending to the lines. Guessing it wouldn’t take but less than a minute before that cabin is engulfed in flames. Or people who their devices next to their beds while sleeping, and something sets the battery off.
I didnt even know lithium batteries were so dangerous. I happened across a recommended video on lithium battery exploded and a new fear was found. I had no idea i had so many lithium batteries i wws carelessly using. Power banks just to name 3, but i ended up finding about 7 that are in the home along with the small batteries that the security devices use around the house. Terrifing to have so many time bombs. The house came with huge old thick vintage safes that i now store them in when not in use and at low charge. I now charge my devices in the fire place....and i have the lipo bags that i put the power banks in if i need to take it with me to later charge a phone. Now know what to look for when it becomes unsafe. They really need to educate better on these things. I will never ever by a tesla
Correct, because thermal runaway is caused by the battery being internally shorted and sending high amounts of current through itself. If there is no charge left in the battery, it cannot create current. However, a dead lithium-ion battery still contains flammable electrolyte which can be ignited by an external heat source, but it can be put out of water is used to remove the heat.
You're pretty much screwed at that point. You can only drain power so fast, and where are you going to drain it to?? It's not like letting the air out of a tire.
@@ffjsb we could mandate that all EVs are equipped with a series of power resistors that quickly drain the functioning battery modules when a fire is detected in any malfunctioning module. But that would add extra cost to already costly vehicles.
@@ffjsb of course that’s what resistors do. A resistor is a conductive device that allows current to flow through it, dissipating energy as heat in the process.
Ps the electric car/ hybrid car need A special license plate on front and rear. So Firefighters KNOW WHAT TYPE OF CAR THEY ARE WORKING ON. ITS THERE LIFE THAT IS AT RISK 😢
Agreed. Perhaps it could be modeled on the hazardous waste markers for semis. Those need to change. This could be a permanent attachment at a specific location.
CHEMISTRY 101 ! ! ! Lithium-ion batteries. Lithium (Li) is a chemical Element at the head of Column 1 in the Chemical Periodic Table, also in Column 1 are the following Elements in order, Sodium (Na), Potassium (K), Rubidium (Rb), Caesium (Cs) and Francium (Fr). All of these elements are vicious in their activity with other chemicals, particularly water, where they burn at a very high temperature. The box these elements are kept in must be totally air tight to prevent even the slightest moisture from getting into the box, if moisture does get into the container it will explode and create one huge fire which it is impossible to put out. Now research is going on into Sodium-ion batteries which are much cheaper to manufacture than Lithium-ion batteries since Sodium is fairly cheap to manufacture from common salt. If ever they do make Sodium-ion batteries, well don’t even think about it, they will be ten times worse than Li-ion batteries.
Thanks for the video. My question is why do the EVangelists claim that ICE vehicles catch on fire 90% more frequently than EV’s, and that the fires are more intense than an EV fire?
No EV advocate claims that gas car fires are more intense than EV fires. But it has been proven that EVs catch fire 10x less often than gas cars. You just need to compare the amount of fires per million kilometers for gas cars to the amount of fires per million kilometers for electric cars, and you’ll see the number is far higher for gas cars.
@@beanapprentice1687 that statistic isn't relevant because electric cars are much newer that comparison is with cars going bace 10 years vs cars going back 50+ years. age needs to be considered just as much as milage .
I’m collecting retro mobile phones and since recently I’m really thinking about the dangers of that hobby. Unfortunately I have no expertise in swapping batteries (although I tried it a few times) and it’s overall an expensive process (especially for a high amount of phones). I charge the devices regularly and use them from time to time to tinker around. I guess the best thing is to store them with relatively low power, right? I checked the circles today and it seems like most of them are around 400-600 circles though some still at late 70-80 percent health (apparently). I guess someday I’ll have to send them all in and pay a fortune just so they’ll work and not set anything on fire. I have to say, some models are definitely past 70/80% health and barely charge at all. Don’t see them expanding just yet. I guess I don’t use those. Maybe I’m a little overreacting but an explosion is just nothing I really would want. Especially if it looks like the 100% charged one.
I guess it depends on how retro. Many of the cell phones from the early 2000's did not use lithium-ion batteries. Many phones up until 2015 had removable batteries. There is a youtuber that had brand new Samsung phones displayed in his house. He noticed multiple phones had batteries that had swollen. ua-cam.com/video/OfM0GqsIB6c/v-deo.htmlsi=FGRWYyV0U9v6RPG0
@@StacheDTraining I got wind of that UA-camr. Unfortunately most of my collection contains old iPhones making this extremely tedious. Had to notice how great my removable battery phones are. Those iPhones should have Lithium ion batteries. My flip-phones may be an exception. Like I mentioned, my only option is to send them in. Maybe the iPhone 4/4s models would be something I could do though I also rather not break anything. This whole battery thing is a problem I noticed rather late I guess (started collecting around 3-4 years ago). Also would really not love to sell them, since I just hate e-waste and I’m too deep into it. Well, well…
when charging a battery with a BMS one must use a smart charger specifically made for Li Ion. i'll wager he either used an old Pb Acid charger or a newer charger not made for Li Ion. my smart charger can't do Li Ion only Pb Acid and LiFePo.
My battery bank was 12 lifepo4 batteries, 300 amp hours each. They were in an array 4 across, 3 levels high. 46.000 watt hours of power. It had an MPPT set for lifepo4 and the bank was at 100% charge. The video monitor showed the state of charge and that the current was at 1 amp at the time of the fire. A bottom shelf battery caught fire and set the whole battery bank on fire. The system had been running for 2 years and the load on the multiple inverters was less than 750 watts total. It never showed signs of distress or troubles. All components were name brand, the cables were 4/0 and 2/0 with hydraulically crimped ends and each battery had a fuse. They are still investigating why a BMS or internal short caused the fire. $100,000+ in damages was done to my shop and adjoining garage. My next battery bank will be in a fireproof shed outside and away from the house, 48 Volt, UL listed, outside rating. I have built a total of 14 battery/inverter/charger systems for friends and family members and never thought a lifep04 battery with BMS would ever catch fire.
@@Sam-f1k8e I am a 70+ year old version of him! I kept my inventions to myself except for 2 patents. I was a success without the internet. I invented the automatic seismic gas valve shutoff in February of 1971 after the Sylmar Earthquake. Will is 100% doing it right and my hat is off to him. I am not supposed to talk about the cells as it is going through legal action. My insurance company is paying for the damage so I don't have to take it on the Chinzz all by myself. I'm going with EG4 with 5 outdoor rated 48 volt batteries and an 18Kpv inverter combo. That should keep the clock on my microwave running despite the grid down situation. By the way, I invented a dual pressure valve manifold that allows me to water plants at 40psi or pull a shifter lever and bypass my regulator to get 120 psi hydrant pressure. I have a fire hose cabinet with 50 feet of 1'' double lined hose on my roof deck. I called 911, charged my fire hose, tore off a skylight and had water on the power console within 70 seconds of the big pop. I saved my house that day last August.
@@G1ZQCArtwork In the oil and gas industry where I work if you were that precious about The dialect concerning the pronunciation of your name we would just call you princess and we will give you shit until you responded!😂😮
The Gospel Jesus Christ loves you and died, rose from the dead, and ascended to heaven to pay for your sin! Repent and turn to Him and you will walk in light and be saved. Read the book of John and Luke to see God's love for you!
And EU think its a good idea everbody should own an EV. If it spontaneously combust on the highway. You loose the power steering/brakes and most likely your life.. A full tank of gas is more stable than an army of lithium cells 😂
*So, what you are saying is that Lithium-ion Batteries are COMPLETELY USELESS !!! No one would EVER buy a product that ONLY works "safely" on a 20% charge !!!*
Lithium-ion batteries are _far_ from completely useless. Almost every single mobile phone, laptop, wireless earbud, power bank, e-reader, and much else, has a lithium ion battery in it. How can you conclude that lithium ion batteries are useless, given this information?
Lithium ion batteries changes the world. We wouldn’t have the mobile devices we do or electric locomotion without lithium. By far one of the best inventions in modern times
I can’t stand the whole electric car fad. It’s just that, a fad. No one is saving the environment with electric vehicles. It will be interesting to see what happens when 50% of the vehicles on the road are electric. A lot more hazards in my opinion.
When you start to dig into the ev thing s I have I fail to understand how anyone would think there is any value to the enviorment deal. Checkout Replacing batteries, warranty, insurance, charging viability as residential applications, plus, and etc. Truly think this is a fad and lots need to be debugged going forward. Which for most would be an expensive journey. Course if you have duffel bags stuffed with cash laying around and wish to become a self imposed guinea pig, have at her..
@@happyrecluse2849 replacing batteries? That almost never happens, but when one such incident does happen, the mass media is sure to report it hundreds of times over so that the readers are tricked into thinking that it’s a regular occurrence. But when an engine in a gas car fails and needs replacing, you almost never hear about it with much drama.
@mikedickinson9730 - I am retired and no longer have a need to 'commute' BUT my 1963 Ford F-100 was becoming a major maintenance headache / expense & I wanted a new 'Hobby' with which to amuse myself. SO I sold the F-100 and bought a used 2015 Nissan Leaf in 2017 . . . . . lets see, that was seven + years ago. Have been super happy I did ! 1) A commercial advertises your transmission has 800 moving parts. Mine has two. 2) The 'motor' in my car has one moving part ! 3) I charge the car with my back-yard solar panels : (they also provide off-grid power to my house which is part of my new 'Hobby' experience) 4) Maintenance cost for the Leaf has been $1.25 for windshield washer fluid from the local 'Dollar Store'. Labor 'cost' = check tire pressures. DOH ! And it's battery shows minimal degradation in 7+ years. I don't drive it far but I drive it often, looking for reasons to do so 'cause it is FUN ! I don't charge it above 75% which is good for the battery. My experience is obviously not the 'norm'. But I Luv my EV ! take care, rh
@@happyrecluse2849 - I am retired and no longer have a need to 'commute' BUT my 1963 Ford F-100 was becoming a major maintenance headache / expense & I wanted a new 'Hobby' with which to amuse myself. SO I sold the F-100 and bought a used 2015 Nissan Leaf in 2017 . . . . . lets see, that was seven + years ago. Have been super happy I did ! 1) A commercial advertises your transmission has 800 moving parts. Mine has two. 2) The 'motor' in my car has one moving part ! 3) I charge the car with my back-yard solar panels : (they also provide off-grid power to my house which is part of my new 'Hobby' experience) 4) Maintenance cost for the Leaf has been $1.25 for windshield washer fluid from the local 'Dollar Store'. Labor 'cost' = check tire pressures. DOH ! And it's battery shows minimal degradation in 7+ years. I don't drive it far but I drive it often, looking for reasons to do so 'cause it is FUN ! I don't charge it above 75% which is good for the battery. My experience is obviously not the 'norm'. But I Luv my EV ! take care, rh
That’s exactly why I store my lipo batteries in a metal fire box with a storage charge on them and I cycle them once a month. Most of mine are 2 - 3 cell lipos for RC vehicles. Great information,thank you.
pretty sure li-ion batteries do not need to be cycled, older chemistries like nicd and nimh need to be cycled to stay maintained from shelf life, self discharge and crystal growth, but li-ion batteries don't have any memory effect or significant self discharge to need cycling except if they aren't used for years on end, 1 cycle every year should be plenty, also if you keep all your batteries in one box, then you will loose all of them if one of them shorts and it will likely be more dangerous
Why cycle them once a month? I left a lipo at storage voltage for 3 years and it only went down by 0.04 V
The self discharge is negligible
💪
great illustration Cap-D 👍this is the kind of "granular information" the public needs on Lion battery safety that we're NOT getting. i've been studying/following Lion fires for now for 16 years and i have YET to hear any experts address this particular issue (which in hindsight would seem rather obvious to do).
Okay, this is the third video in a row that I've watched of yours, right after John Cadogan recommended your channel. I subscribed on the first but now fear I'm going to dive deep into the Lithium battery rabbit-hole and end up down-trading my 12-volt LiPOs to AGMs again ... or not. However, I have gained a far deeper respect for caring for and maintaining all my LiPOs, from 18650s to the 129A/H 12-volts. One saving grace is that I have a V6 petrol shitbox Ford Courier, so an EV fire won't ever happen for me...unless some Tesla driver in hands-free mode t-bones me.
you assume all lithium batteries are the same, but in most car battery sized lithium batteries, the common chemistry is lifepo4 which is durable, safe and does the job better than lead acid with no downsides
@@sigataros No downsides? Low capacity, low output power.
@@franklofarojr.2969high price
Thank you for sharing this information. I've got a few tool batteries that often set around at or near full charge. In fact I was in the habit of always fully charging them after I'd use one. I'm going to stop doing that. From now on, I'll be sure they are at a low charge state when not in use. Probably get a fire box to keep them in too.
Great content, clear, even obvious. You know it's good material when you immediately wonder why you haven't seen it before. Thanks, liked, subscribed!👍✌
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you so much for this life saving information and the work that you put into your videos!
Ive been studying and learning a-lot from your videos….Great info on how these batteries work …
Great video! What was the SOC percentage of the low charged battery ? Many thanks
Most standards requires batteries to be under 30% SOC for shipping. One thing to note. The SOC that your device shows, likely is not the SOC of the battery.
Another new viewer from John cadogan
As a home owner and life long handyman, I’m considering making a dedicated portable vented metal firebox to keep all my power tool batteries inside this device for peace of mind, not sure on leaving it outside the home but the desert heat might not be good for them but man these things are terrifying.
Ive tested old cell phone batteries myself with a puncture and boy what a rocket engine it was.
I dont feel comfy with any of these batteries within 30ft of my home
Great video's thank you. I don't have an EV but I do use Lithium battery banks like Jackery for example. While much smaller I believe these may present a similar risk and how would their explosive characteristics alter from an EV? Many thanks,
Been enjoying the videos you've been doing on these EV's. Great info.
Informative video,thanks.
It would be good to understand why and how the state of charge affects the failure or ignition. For instance, is the pressure higher within the cells and do the concentrations of flammable gases vary proportional to the state of charge?
It's at a higher energy level. Very similar to the example using air pressure. It's not pressure, but rearranging electrons to be in a less stable position.
@@StacheDTrainingthanks for video, i always leave all lithium products at empty or flat charge state at home when I travel but this video explained alot.
NiHm batteries are they safer
@@pietpompiepompiepiet940 Be careful with leaving them totally discharged, that can cause damage to the battery over time. Also, over discharging a lithium ion battery, which shouldn't be possible thanks to the BMS, can also cause instability. Your best bet is to store your batteries somewhere cool and dry and inside a closed box specifically designed for battery charging and storage to contain the fire/explosion just in case something goes wrong. And the further away from combustible materials you can keep the storage box, the better off you will be.
@@averyalexander2303 thanks for advise
@@StacheDTrainingIts not so much "rearranging the electrons" (that would be a capacitor), but changing the chemical composition in the battery - its "chemical potential energy". In the charged state the chemicals are more likely to decompose rapidly, releasing that energy as they revert to the lower energy state composition. They normally do that in a controlled fashion through the electrolyte, but stick a nail through it, and the electrical energy release is sufficient to start the process in an uncontrolled manner AND MORE; rather than liquid state chemical changes, the excess heat triggers new chemical reactions, like releasing hydrogen and oxygen )not a good mix in the presence of electrical sparks or other intense heat sources).
Question:
I heard that failure while charging is a thing what are the particulars on that. For instance, I assume that speed og charge is a issue?
Hi! This is great information, thank you! I have a wrangler 4xe (hybrid) with a current recall saying not to charge or park by a structure but they’re saying it’s safe to drive. I’m curious to see what you think, if I’m not charging and the battery level is low (I understand it’s never zero even without charging?) will I presumably have time to get out and get my dog out of the jeep before anything catastrophic would happen? Due to the current market and the unfixed recall (currently no fix from stelantis) I’m very underwater with what I owe if I wanted to trade in. So I’m just trying to decide if it’s unsafe enough that I should take that hit or if I just need to wait it out until they have a fix. Is it even safe to drive after that recall/fix? I have watched videos that talk about the battery in the 4xe being a design flaw due to the placement under the back seat, saying it’s unsafe. Thanks for your time!
I've have a rhetorical question and a actual question: Why are you allowed to park and charge an electric car in an attached garage when according to a German study they are four times more likely to burst into flames as opposed to a gas powered vehicle and why do American studies contradict the German findings. We all pay a couple hundred dollars more for water heaters now that have an enclosed combustion chamber so they do not to ignite Gasoline fumes in garages because people were dying every year. This is my first time watching any of your videos and I'm assuming you're a firefighter based on your knowledge of fires and your mustache. Besides only parking and charging electric vehicles outside of an attached garage, can you think of a solution to charge and store these vehicles In an attached garage without danger to human life?
The American studies you're looking at are probably secretly funded and published by 3rd parties are working in the interests of American auto manufacturers to skew public perception of electric vehicles. I wouldn't place much weight on statistics and supposed studies published out of the US, especially consider that Europe has been a number of common American foods, ingredients and food production methods citing health risks. We are not a healthy nor honest country.
Well, that German study is dead wrong. It has been proven that EVs are 10x _less_ likely to catch fire compared to gas powered vehicles.
@@beanapprentice1687 Really? Than how comes they do catch fire at a far higher rate anyway, despite the Murican findings?
Good video, but does the SIZE of the battery also have an effect?? A Tesla battery and an RC car battery at thirty per cent each would still be significantly different no??
The size would as well. The more energy a cell can store, the more energy that can be released.
Generally different battery chemistry types as well. Rc car batteries are Lipo batteries generally, which imo are much more fragile and susceptible to damage. If you had the same weight of cylindrical cells as Lipo pouches in an array, I would be more nervous of the Lipo
@@juliogonzo2718 exactly, there are many pieces to the puzzle.
so, the empty batteries are safe from spontaniously catching fire?
Is it OK that I can use some of your videos about EV fires for training in our department.
Hi ..i want to ask what happen if using the lithium ion battery until 0% then charge normally but not until over charged???
Are the battery will have same problem??
great videos .
OMG …. What about phones and laptops we use ??? They are also charged to 100% ….. Should we avoid that ?
A cell phone has about 14Wh of power. An EV has 50,000 - 100,000Wh of power. It's like comparing grabbing a down power line vs. sticking your tongue on a 9v battery.
@@StacheDTraining…depends on the environment. For example, say a person is on a sailboat and has a battery ignite on the cabin cushions while the person is outside tending to the lines. Guessing it wouldn’t take but less than a minute before that cabin is engulfed in flames. Or people who their devices next to their beds while sleeping, and something sets the battery off.
Thank you very much
I didnt even know lithium batteries were so dangerous. I happened across a recommended video on lithium battery exploded and a new fear was found. I had no idea i had so many lithium batteries i wws carelessly using. Power banks just to name 3, but i ended up finding about 7 that are in the home along with the small batteries that the security devices use around the house. Terrifing to have so many time bombs. The house came with huge old thick vintage safes that i now store them in when not in use and at low charge. I now charge my devices in the fire place....and i have the lipo bags that i put the power banks in if i need to take it with me to later charge a phone. Now know what to look for when it becomes unsafe. They really need to educate better on these things. I will never ever by a tesla
Realize there are many different chemistries of lithium batteries. They are not all equal.
Does this mean if the battery is at 0% there would be no chance of thermal runaway?
Correct, because thermal runaway is caused by the battery being internally shorted and sending high amounts of current through itself. If there is no charge left in the battery, it cannot create current. However, a dead lithium-ion battery still contains flammable electrolyte which can be ignited by an external heat source, but it can be put out of water is used to remove the heat.
The question is : how to drain the energy from batteries which already on fire and going to explode, in order to minimize the impact ??
You're pretty much screwed at that point. You can only drain power so fast, and where are you going to drain it to?? It's not like letting the air out of a tire.
If the cell is on fire, energy is already being drained. I'll do a video in the future on draining stranded energy in damaged cells.
@@ffjsb we could mandate that all EVs are equipped with a series of power resistors that quickly drain the functioning battery modules when a fire is detected in any malfunctioning module. But that would add extra cost to already costly vehicles.
@@beanapprentice1687 That's not what resistors do... And the concept is impractical anyway.
@@ffjsb of course that’s what resistors do. A resistor is a conductive device that allows current to flow through it, dissipating energy as heat in the process.
Ps the electric car/ hybrid car need A special license plate on front and rear. So
Firefighters KNOW WHAT TYPE OF CAR
THEY ARE WORKING ON. ITS THERE LIFE THAT IS
AT RISK 😢
That's right, some countries already introduced special license plates for EVs, usually there are of green color.
Agreed. Perhaps it could be modeled on the hazardous waste markers for semis. Those need to change. This could be a permanent attachment at a specific location.
It's not a Battery but a Cell
you cut right through all the CRAP....
GREAT VIDEO THANKS
CHEMISTRY 101 ! ! !
Lithium-ion batteries. Lithium (Li) is a chemical Element at the head of Column 1 in the Chemical Periodic Table, also in Column 1 are the following Elements in order, Sodium (Na), Potassium (K), Rubidium (Rb), Caesium (Cs) and Francium (Fr). All of these elements are vicious in their activity with other chemicals, particularly water, where they burn at a very high temperature. The box these elements are kept in must be totally air tight to prevent even the slightest moisture from getting into the box, if moisture does get into the container it will explode and create one huge fire which it is impossible to put out. Now research is going on into Sodium-ion batteries which are much cheaper to manufacture than Lithium-ion batteries since Sodium is fairly cheap to manufacture from common salt. If ever they do make Sodium-ion batteries, well don’t even think about it, they will be ten times worse than Li-ion batteries.
Thanks for the video. My question is why do the EVangelists claim that ICE vehicles catch on fire 90% more frequently than EV’s, and that the fires are more intense than an EV fire?
No EV advocate claims that gas car fires are more intense than EV fires. But it has been proven that EVs catch fire 10x less often than gas cars. You just need to compare the amount of fires per million kilometers for gas cars to the amount of fires per million kilometers for electric cars, and you’ll see the number is far higher for gas cars.
@@beanapprentice1687 that statistic isn't relevant because electric cars are much newer that comparison is with cars going bace 10 years vs cars going back 50+ years. age needs to be considered just as much as milage .
Have you done one on the guy in the elevator getting fried by his scooter battery?
Now you know why lots of laptops have options to only charge to 60%
I am going to keep my phone at 30% max charge from now on.
No, you won't
I’m collecting retro mobile phones and since recently I’m really thinking about the dangers of that hobby.
Unfortunately I have no expertise in swapping batteries (although I tried it a few times) and it’s overall an expensive process (especially for a high amount of phones).
I charge the devices regularly and use them from time to time to tinker around.
I guess the best thing is to store them with relatively low power, right? I checked the circles today and it seems like most of them are around 400-600 circles though some still at late 70-80 percent health (apparently).
I guess someday I’ll have to send them all in and pay a fortune just so they’ll work and not set anything on fire. I have to say, some models are definitely past 70/80% health and barely charge at all. Don’t see them expanding just yet. I guess I don’t use those.
Maybe I’m a little overreacting but an explosion is just nothing I really would want. Especially if it looks like the 100% charged one.
I guess it depends on how retro. Many of the cell phones from the early 2000's did not use lithium-ion batteries. Many phones up until 2015 had removable batteries. There is a youtuber that had brand new Samsung phones displayed in his house. He noticed multiple phones had batteries that had swollen. ua-cam.com/video/OfM0GqsIB6c/v-deo.htmlsi=FGRWYyV0U9v6RPG0
@@StacheDTraining I got wind of that UA-camr. Unfortunately most of my collection contains old iPhones making this extremely tedious. Had to notice how great my removable battery phones are. Those iPhones should have Lithium ion batteries. My flip-phones may be an exception. Like I mentioned, my only option is to send them in. Maybe the iPhone 4/4s models would be something I could do though I also rather not break anything. This whole battery thing is a problem I noticed rather late I guess (started collecting around 3-4 years ago). Also would really not love to sell them, since I just hate e-waste and I’m too deep into it. Well, well…
when charging a battery with a BMS one must use a smart charger specifically made for Li Ion. i'll wager he either used an old Pb Acid charger or a newer charger not made for Li Ion.
my smart charger can't do Li Ion only Pb Acid and LiFePo.
My battery bank was 12 lifepo4 batteries, 300 amp hours each. They were in an array 4 across, 3 levels high. 46.000 watt hours of power. It had an MPPT set for lifepo4 and the bank was at 100% charge. The video monitor showed the state of charge and that the current was at 1 amp at the time of the fire. A bottom shelf battery caught fire and set the whole battery bank on fire. The system had been running for 2 years and the load on the multiple inverters was less than 750 watts total. It never showed signs of distress or troubles. All components were name brand, the cables were 4/0 and 2/0 with hydraulically crimped ends and each battery had a fuse. They are still investigating why a BMS or internal short caused the fire. $100,000+ in damages was done to my shop and adjoining garage. My next battery bank will be in a fireproof shed outside and away from the house, 48 Volt, UL listed, outside rating. I have built a total of 14 battery/inverter/charger systems for friends and family members and never thought a lifep04 battery with BMS would ever catch fire.
@ i assume prismatic cells and all had BMS. i think it's rare but, everything is made in china.
@ you should ask Will Proust here on utube.
@ correction: Will Prowse
@@Sam-f1k8e I am a 70+ year old version of him! I kept my inventions to myself except for 2 patents. I was a success without the internet. I invented the automatic seismic gas valve shutoff in February of 1971 after the Sylmar Earthquake.
Will is 100% doing it right and my hat is off to him. I am not supposed to talk about the cells as it is going through legal action. My insurance company is paying for the damage so I don't have to take it on the Chinzz all by myself. I'm going with EG4 with 5 outdoor rated 48 volt batteries and an 18Kpv inverter combo. That should keep the clock on my microwave running despite the grid down situation.
By the way, I invented a dual pressure valve manifold that allows me to water plants at 40psi or pull a shifter lever and bypass my regulator to get 120 psi hydrant pressure. I have a fire hose cabinet with 50 feet of 1'' double lined hose on my roof deck. I called 911, charged my fire hose, tore off a skylight and had water on the power console within 70 seconds of the big pop. I saved my house that day last August.
I fully agree, but it is Battery not Baddery!
But things get really bad when they fail.
Haha...@@StacheDTraining
Sorry but my Surname is Potter, and some from other countries either call me Podder or Porter, neither of which I respond to.@@StacheDTraining
@@G1ZQCArtwork In the oil and gas industry where I work if you were that precious about The dialect concerning the pronunciation of your name we would just call you princess and we will give you shit until you responded!😂😮
Once a fool, always a fool, do you always insult people this way.?@@malcolmwhite6588
The Gospel
Jesus Christ loves you and died, rose from the dead, and ascended to heaven to pay for your sin! Repent and turn to Him and you will walk in light and be saved. Read the book of John and Luke to see God's love for you!
what the hell?
So, simply charge a BEV to 50%, and there will be no fire! Problem solved!
And EU think its a good idea everbody should own an EV.
If it spontaneously combust on the highway. You loose the power steering/brakes and most likely your life..
A full tank of gas is more stable than an army of lithium cells 😂
*So, what you are saying is that Lithium-ion Batteries are COMPLETELY USELESS !!! No one would EVER buy a product that ONLY works "safely" on a 20% charge !!!*
Lithium-ion batteries are _far_ from completely useless. Almost every single mobile phone, laptop, wireless earbud, power bank, e-reader, and much else, has a lithium ion battery in it.
How can you conclude that lithium ion batteries are useless, given this information?
So the electronic device that you are watching the video on which uses a lithium battery is completely useless?
What powers your phone?
@@KvShashankthey might be on a desktop
Lithium ion batteries changes the world. We wouldn’t have the mobile devices we do or electric locomotion without lithium. By far one of the best inventions in modern times
I run, on the fuel of Satan....year 2000 Td5 Defender....it hasnt burned down yet!
HYDROGEN...YAY!
Remember the Hindenburg!
Ask the occupant? I wouldn't ask them anything till they stopped being the occupant. I'd tell them to get out of the car, it's on fire.
I can’t stand the whole electric car fad. It’s just that, a fad. No one is saving the environment with electric vehicles. It will be interesting to see what happens when 50% of the vehicles on the road are electric. A lot more hazards in my opinion.
When you start to dig into the ev thing s I have I fail to understand how anyone would think there is any value to the enviorment deal. Checkout
Replacing batteries, warranty, insurance, charging viability as residential applications, plus, and etc. Truly think this is a fad and lots need to be debugged going forward. Which for most would be an expensive journey.
Course if you have duffel bags stuffed with cash laying around and wish to become a self imposed guinea pig, have at her..
@@happyrecluse2849 replacing batteries? That almost never happens, but when one such incident does happen, the mass media is sure to report it hundreds of times over so that the readers are tricked into thinking that it’s a regular occurrence. But when an engine in a gas car fails and needs replacing, you almost never hear about it with much drama.
Yea, it’s definitely a fad… that explains why exponentially more and more electric cars have been purchased over the last 20 years.
@mikedickinson9730 - I am retired and no longer have a need to 'commute' BUT my 1963 Ford F-100 was becoming a major maintenance headache / expense & I wanted a new 'Hobby' with which to amuse myself. SO I sold the F-100 and bought a used 2015 Nissan Leaf in 2017 . . . . . lets see, that was seven + years ago. Have been super happy I did !
1) A commercial advertises your transmission has 800 moving parts. Mine has two.
2) The 'motor' in my car has one moving part !
3) I charge the car with my back-yard solar panels : (they also provide off-grid power to my house which is part of my new 'Hobby' experience)
4) Maintenance cost for the Leaf has been $1.25 for windshield washer fluid from the local 'Dollar Store'. Labor 'cost' = check tire pressures. DOH !
And it's battery shows minimal degradation in 7+ years. I don't drive it far but I drive it often, looking for reasons to do so 'cause it is FUN ! I don't charge it above 75% which is good for the battery.
My experience is obviously not the 'norm'. But I Luv my EV !
take care, rh
@@happyrecluse2849 - I am retired and no longer have a need to 'commute' BUT my 1963 Ford F-100 was becoming a major maintenance headache / expense & I wanted a new 'Hobby' with which to amuse myself. SO I sold the F-100 and bought a used 2015 Nissan Leaf in 2017 . . . . . lets see, that was seven + years ago. Have been super happy I did !
1) A commercial advertises your transmission has 800 moving parts. Mine has two.
2) The 'motor' in my car has one moving part !
3) I charge the car with my back-yard solar panels : (they also provide off-grid power to my house which is part of my new 'Hobby' experience)
4) Maintenance cost for the Leaf has been $1.25 for windshield washer fluid from the local 'Dollar Store'. Labor 'cost' = check tire pressures. DOH !
And it's battery shows minimal degradation in 7+ years. I don't drive it far but I drive it often, looking for reasons to do so 'cause it is FUN ! I don't charge it above 75% which is good for the battery.
My experience is obviously not the 'norm'. But I Luv my EV !
take care, rh
$KULR -> problem solved