Review and history of Rolemaster 2nd Edition, currently published as Rolemaster Classic, from Iron Crown Enterprises. DriveThruRPG link to Rolemaster Classic: www.drivethrur...
Having played almost all the main RPGs over the years I still think Rolemaster is the best of them. So many great memories from this system especially using it for the MERP games. I never found it too complicated and loved the seemingly unlimited customisation of your character as they progressed, and dealt with higher level characters in a good non-game breaking way.
Ah. Started RPGs when was 11years old. Our friend group bought aD&D and started playing it. Then one day one of us saw Rolemaster. We were in awe. After that newer looked back, playing Rolemaster rules ever since, 32 years now and still going.
RM is a lot like "AD&D with the weird inconsistencies and abstractions taken out of it". It's funny how a good few people's houseruled versions of D&D end up making me think "why didn't you save yourself time and just go to RM instead..."
Nicely organized. Would like to see further sections about online play(Fantasy Grounds, Roll20, etc.) and possibly comments about streams/UA-cam channels for games, too. Stay well and much success on these reviews.
Thank-you! I am working on trying to be a little less rambling in my reviews, but... Work in progress. Online gaming platforms is an idea... I think I'd rather leave them for separate videos - the "history and review" videos are long enough, and going into online possibilities in them would make them even longer to do that side of things justice. So, perhaps I'll follow up my review videos with supplementary videos outlining online play options. I hope that UA-cam channels that engage in these games feel open to add their comments and links to the reviews. Not sure if I'd want to address them directly. Streams will very likely not appear, except maybe as a mention when I reach more modern games that have embraced that sort of thing. I'm neither a consumer nor a fan of streams as a spectator-sport watching other people play, so I am highly unqualified to provide commentary for that particular scene.
I had a love-hate relationship with Rolemaster. I always felt like house-ruling it a lot, partially because of the slow character development, and partially because of a lot of encumbrance rules etc. But I loved the "maneuver" tables and the attack tables. After I streamlined it to my satisfaction, we had a lot of fun with it. I did not know that the developers started with Middle-Earth. Interesting to know that this was part of the parcel from the beginning. I had a number of Companions but also did not know that RM Companion 2 was the one to get. I do remember some pretty interesting and hefty optional rules in Companion VI, but don't think we ever got around to using it :)
RM is very much one of those toolkit games that lends itself to houseruling. Partially, I suspect, due to its origin as a set of house rules in the first place.
Great video, I loved to hear about the history of Rolemaster, specially the 1st edition. Also, I love to see how well your books still do. Mine are totally broken for the use. (I started with the 2nd edition, and still playing nowadays, even when we moved to RMF) Also, I don´t think anyone made a better Tolkien based rpg than MERP
I am actually surprised the RM2 books have held up so well, too - especially being softcovers. There are game books that have disintegrated on me - but, except for my RM2 Arms Law, where cover has divorced staples, all of my ICE books have held up really well. I couldn't agree more regarding MERP. ICE's (and particular Pete Fenlon's) attention to detail and care has not been surpassed - or even approached - by anyone else who has taken on the Tolkien gaming licences.
I'd say that the current adaptation of Tolkien's world for 5E ("Adventures in Middle-Earth") is pretty good. Based off of TOR (The One RIng) which also received some praise from Tolkien fans. What always bugged me with ICE's MERP was the inclusion of "standard high fantasy magic" which never felt right with the setting. Other than that I loved MERP and played it a short time back in the 80's before the rest of my friends wanted to move on to other things.
I was wondering if you were going to nod to RM’s influence in 3rd Edition-so that was a nice pay off at the end. In the 1980s I grew up with AD&D and MERP, with some dabbling into Role Master via MERP. Which is why I think 3.0/3.5/Pathfinder 1 to this day are my favorite versions of D&D. At the time, 3.0 felt like the synthesis of the two older systems that I only partially knew I had been craving. Years when I read that Monte Cook had first worked for ICE before jumping to TSR, the direct genealogy between Role Master and 3.0 was unavoidable. Thank you for another great review.
Thank-you! I'm generally not a fan of Monte Cook's work in the D&D/D20 sphere, and in one way the fact that 3E needed a 3.5 so relatively soon backs that feeling up a bit. But I do like 3E, and he did produce the odd thing or two I like. But yes, when 3E first came out, I was very much in a "this feels very familiar..." camp that found it quite difficult to convince others.
It would be great to show people example of gameplay, as there really isn't anything on that here on UA-cam. This is the best RPG for adults hands down and I was very disappointed that you gave it a 3 out of 5. I have been playing since 1975 and came into Rolemaster around 1981 or 1982. I spend 3 months reading and re-reading and finally understood it. We played it with two game-masters, due to the complexity, but it was great fun. You should rethink the 3 out of 5. I give it 4.5 out of 5 for adults and would imagine if you were a teen, it would probably be a 3 out of 5, since grasping the granularity would be an issue, coming from 5th edition D&D. 5e players can barely grasp anything these days.
Role-playing games, like all creative pursuits, are a wholly subjective kettle of fish. And that is what this is - my subjective opinion of the game. Not everyone appreciated the complexity of Rolemaster, or the way the books are organised, or the many variants of it that exist due to the many options published for it. Some do, some don't. There is no objective comparison that can be made - just as in music and art. The fact that it took you three months to figure it out should tell you all you need to know about ICE's brand of rules organisation! Anyway - is Rolemaster a good game? Yes. Is it objectively the best game ever? Impossible to make the comparison. Could it be subjectively the best game ever to someone? Of course!
Excellent informative video. I have Arms Law, Spell Law, and Character Law from 2nd edition but have never used them. Got them used in a bundle of old RPG items. Always intrigued me. I did play a little bit of MERP when it was new. Wish I sset. had the boxed set.
Cheers, Sir! I missed Rolemaster, and MERP, during my early days of the hobby, but have always wanted to master the system, which I have been doing by slowly working through it in a solo capacity. This was a wonderfully informed video, which shed a lot of light on the game for me. Keep up the good work, and Game On!
Thank-you! I'm hoping to add some RPG tutorial videos - "how to create a character" and that sort of thing - at some point, which may help you. But it is a rewarding game to get into - stick with it, and I wish you luck on your journey!
Thank-you! I do think Rolemaster stands out. It is certainly a permanent fixture of my top 5, the order of which shuffles a fair bit. I definitely do believe it does not get the love it deserves. It's great to hear from people that enjoy it!
Back in the 90's I used to play MERP + Rolemaster 2nd Edition with some friends. In our case, we went with a "minimal mechanics" type of approach, in the sense that as players, we didn't worry about all the tables ourselves, and let our GM take care of that. We did the rolls ourselves, but the GM took care of all the table lookups. This meant that the mechanics themselves became mostly invisible to us, and we relied on the GMs explanation of the outcome. This put a strong emphasis on the immersion rather than the mechanics, and discouraged any sort of META gaming that have become quite common more recently, with the strong computer game influence on RPGs. For us, this approach worked really well, and some of my best gaming memories, of any type, date back to that time with Rolemaster and Middle Earth :)
That's an approach I use from time to time, even to the point where the players don't have character sheets - they just have narrative descriptions of what they're good at etc. It saves the game from conversations like "what skill level do you have in X?". Not every time, though. Sometimes you just want a game to be a game.
Great overview for Rolemaster. I always wanted to play when I was younger and no one was interested. Now I finally get to play and run it, so all this information is extremely helpful.
Great video, lots of what appeared to be shooting from the hip, which is always a good sign that you know what you're doing (as long as you hit the traget). ;) I've loved Rolemaster since I got into it in the early-mid '80s. The charts, the charts! How I love the charts...or at least, I really love all the varied descriptions of what you can do (and get done to you) by spells and weapons. So graphic in the face of the usual hit points. And open-ended rolls! Probably the mechanic that I love the most. The concept is fantastic, and you'll always remember that heroic shot you took right in the troll's eye just when you needed it to save your hide (or whatever). Wonderful. Like many, I would assume, I made my way to RM by way of MERP, and used it to flesh out (at least in my mind) the reduced MERP system. I really hope you do a MERP video. The MERP supplements stand out in my mind as the best rpg supplements ever made. Great video, thanks.
Thank-you! Yes, MERP will be along eventually. In my opinion, no other game - at least, in maps and source - has done Middle-Earth better (spoilers...). Strangely, I came to RM before MERP, picking up the rules originally to get a basis for comparison for the RM and MERP stats in the Mirkwood MERP sourcebooks.
@@WillyMuffinUK Very good news then. I eagerly await your usual in-depth look at MERP, whenever that might be. I guess I can't say that I know how popular or not it actually was at the time, but I certainly never met others that played it, and that always seemed shocking to me even as a kid that others weren't as blown away as I was by MERP and its amazing supplements.
Excellent job of breaking it down! My group of friends played many rpgs (champions, ADD, toon, battletech, traveler, melee and ice) in the 80s. I found ICE to be both the most detailed and the most tedious. A simple battle could take 4 hours to complete. For that reason it was the rpg we were least likely to play.
Rolemaster was the first system I brought for myself and I've love it to this day. All so I see Solaris VII for Battletech/Mechwarior in the background :)
Excellent video. Very informative. I only ever played some MERP long ago but I happened to get some old RM books (1984 edition) in a used RPG lot long ago and would like to try it out.
LOL I bought the 1st edition Arms Law, Spell Law, Claw Law, Character Law and Campaign Law then. I didn't know. I liked Rolemaster and the Middle-Earth modules (though not MERP as much). Later, Future Law but I didn't get into that one as much. I didn't try the campaign world they were selling, I was more interested in Tolkien. Thank you for reviewing this, good memories. The Middle-Earth modules were very detailed and well researched, it seemed to me. And those maps... oy. I had never heard of War Law. TSR introduced mass combat rules as well, I think to defend against Warhammer. The 1987 stock market crash had an effect on many of the companies I think. I blamed Peter Jackson for I.C.E. losing the Tolkiens rights.
Battle System was the D&D mass combat game. As for Peter Jackson - there may be a grain of truth there, at least in the LOTR rights holders looking to maximise the $$$.
Another great video that brought back memories 😀 I think your RPG game progression was similar to mine! D&D/AD&D/MERP/RM/CoC/Paranoia/RQ The quality of the Iron Crown MERP supplements was generally excellent and for me, captured the spirit of Middle Earth. I look forward to catching up on the rest of your RPG videos!
It was actually Traveller/D&D/AD&D/CoC/RM/RQ/many others 🙂 MERP's supplements were gorgeous, but I only played the game itself a few times - usually drew from them for RM and others.
@@WillyMuffinUK I forgot two other major games I played. FGU’s Bushido, which was a great system if you could slog though the rule book which I seem to remember made RM seem a light read 😉 I also ran a campaign based on the Thieves World boxed set using SPIs Dragon Quest. I was a big fun of the books but don’t recall why I ended up using DQ… Many hours of fun though both preparing the campaign and running it.
Hey I’m late to comment but what a great review. Actually listened to the whole thing - including the history - and was interested the whole time. Thanks much!
I've kept a copy of 2ed Spell Law forever, probably because its non-Vancian magic was so different and interesting. However, this level of complexity in combat is quite daunting (charts for each weapon plus chart for different type of critical-piercing bludgeoning slashing, etc.) This can be all abstracted and is in OSR games today, like the Shields Shall Be Splintered rule, sacrificing your helm to prevent one crit, the idea of weapon types that have different effects (without a chart). I actually appreciate these evolutions so much more now and see that it is truly the future. Don't eliminate the coolness of armor and weapon effects, just keep them in your roll but a single blurb where it happens on a 1 in 6, 1 in 10, or 10 in 100. It amazing how you can take a bare bone system like OSE and add some house rules to get what you want.
Essentially, all the ICE guys were doing is houseruling D&D to get what they needed 😉 It's horses for courses. I understand why the detail and tables of Rolemaster put people off - but I also know what attracts people to it.
That was awesome. Thank you for your explanation of a game I use to play but never understood the big picture. Inspired me to maybe hunt down some of the older books.
My 2e and SS books are in tatters - as in I put them in folders as all the pages are seperated. Just bought the 1e materials, which is nice because of the individual "parchment" cardstock charts. I'm thinking of playing a game with my wife, who hasn't roleplayers before. One thing I realized is while it is leaning towards combat, it has enough to make a game centered around non-combat adventures. RMSS is still my favorite, but RM2 is wonderful also. Thanks for the great video.
There's a lot you can do that's non-combat, and with the Rolemaster experience point system it can be rewarded, too :) Thank-you, and good luck running the game with your wife!
Interesting history of ICE. I only played MERP, but I picked up a couple Rolemaster supplements because lots of the MERP NPCs had Rolemaster classes or spells. Now I'm thinking about grabbing the classic books (or Rolemaster Unified, if it's ever published) to go back and dive into my vast MERP collection, which I haven't played in nearly 20 years.
Hi there! I stumbled upon your review after searching for some RM-Lore on YT. Thanks a lot for doing this rather in-depth review and comparison video. To me RM always was this mysterious almost foreboding game that I ended up seldom playing (or refereeing) but always being fascinated by throughout my now almost 35 years in the hobby. Got the German release of RMFRP a few years back and slowly built up a modest collection. Now I have expanded said collection to include HARP, Shadow World, Against The Darkmaster (a newer release based on MERP and Open00). But I don't just want to stick to collecting this stuff. After I barely encountered anyone familiar with RM throughout my rpg years (as I planned on playing with a gm that really knew his/her RM stuff) I am now looking to start a game myself (currently most likely through Roll20). I am still on the fence whether I should use RM2 or RMFRP, though.
Why not run simple scenarios with both, and see which you prefer? They have a lot in common, but a lot of differences that make the play experiences likewise different. Personally, I prefer playing RM2, but prefer RMSS/RMFRP to tinker with - especially from a world building perspective - as a GM.
I would love to see u dive into the book. I am fascinated by the Rolemaster system and plan to join a campaign in the near future. Thank u for responding so promptly. 😺
Did anyone ever play a Rolemaster campaign where you didn't start at level 20 or so? At first level you could get killed by a house cat. I wrote my first computer program to prove that, in RM, wearing leather armor was worse than not wearing any armor at all. I mentioned that to the guys at the ICE booth at GenCon one year and they asked if I'd brought the floppy disk because they'd been trying to convince the designer of that and he wouldn't believe them.
Hello - really good overview of what can be a very complex but excellent RPG - Rolemaster is my favourite and pretty much exclusive system. You mention in your useful video the Rolemaster Facebook page and that people on there are happy to help/try to help with any questions. I'm on that page and would like to volenteer myself to any of your viewers who may have questions about this system. As mentioned by Majyk below there are existing tools to cut down on the "massive chart looking up" factor (though this as you know is a fundamental of the game). Another tool is the Rolemaster Combat Minion at www.web.com.au/rolemaster/minion/ which is well worth a look. As a GM I have only recently started using it but it does speed up combat a lot and would be worth interested viewers checking out too. Look forward to more vidoes
Good points - and to save those looking through Facebook a hunt: Rolemaster Group - facebook.com/groups/2576550882 Rolemaster page - facebook.com/RolemasterRPG
I like Rolemaster. I still have the 1989 edition of Character Law/Campaign Law and Spell Law. I liked Campaign Law, and I was disheartened it was never included in RM Classic.
So much new info. I only know 2nd edition. Spell law, charracter law, arms law. Newer knew they are re-made as ”classic”. We have played 2nd edition for over 30years 😸 The books are disintagrating nowadays. But remembering the rules by hearth
My 2nd Eds are... OK. But then, they haven't had to do 30 years straight - just 15 plus a graceful semi-retirement. The box is somewhat 30% tape, though...
Great video! My only experience with Rolemaster was back in high school (some, twenty-five years ago). I hated it, but in retrospective it was more the Gamemaster than the system. Nice guy, but every one of his monsters popped up from portals. Every. One. Of. Them. Clearly the sign of a very novice GM. After watching the review, I get the feeling that, with the right person at the helm, I would've had a far better time. And speaking of games loved by their players and hated by their retractors...will we see a GURPS review sometime soon? ;-)
I firmly believe that the referee has large part to play there, especially since they are the arbiter and interpreter of the rules. But then, in RPGs more than any other game, everyone around the table has a responsibility to everyone else's enjoyment. Players that like playing characters that are basically dicks need to think about that for a minute or two! As for GURPS - Yes. Eventually. From a SJG perspective, I'll likely get to Ogre and Car Wars before GURPS. But then, it's not like I've figured out any organised schedule to these things yet!
I've played a bit of D&D but mostly Role Master. The D&D I played seemed simplistic in comparison. I loved RM. My sister still has about 16-18 books. Time to crack them open. I see that ICE has come up with a Core set of rules. I think they've come back to the idea of using it with other games. Any thoughts on this new development?
Funnily enough, I'd say it's the other way around - Rolemaster simplifies many concepts that D&D abstracts or makes overly complex. Your mileage may vary! As far as RMU (the new Rolemaster edition, as yet incomplete in its releases) - yes, I have my own thoughts, which will be in an upcoming video. I just need to absorb it properly first.
Great game system, but you definitely needed engaged players who were interested in how their character was going to advance, there were a lot of choices available , which is heaven if you like that sort of thing, but can look too much for more casual players.
RM2 is the best. I really wish I could go back in time and get I.C.E. to focus a bit better. I feel like D&D beat them out not because simplicity, but because they didn't focus on their own system and game world(s). The RM optional rules just became ridiculous (how many initiative, action, and battle phase systems do you need? ... it just confuses people). And now, due to changing hands multiple times, and multiple repacking of the system with only Shadow World as a realm to play ... it's a bit of a mess. Such a shame. They could have been the dominate system.
I'm sort of in agreement (although I do prefer RMSS). RM for me is like the Unix to D&D's Windows - Unix does more, but Sun didn't market it properly against the Windows juggernaut, so here we are.
I only got to play Rolemaster a little, but I loved it so much that I got most all the rulebooks and I still read them now and again to this day. What worries me the most about the game are the criticals! How are you supposed to develop a character over months, never mind years, with those instant death criticals hanging around? Eventually, something is going to get lucky, and your character is going to die in a very messy way. It seems like you would need to avoid combat almost as much as one would in real life. While highly realistic, you better have a GM with a real gift for telling dramatic, non-violent stories.
That sort of is the point with RPGs that have lethal systems - and that includes not just Rolemaster, but also RuneQuest, Traveller, Cyberpunk, and others. If you want to get into a fight, make sure you're as prepared as possible to be able to get out of it on the other side. Balance the advantages vs consequences. And above all, have a new character ready to go, just in case... You say "what's the point", but the point is in having your character live his best life on the edge, and making sure that, when the inevitable does happen, his end is spectacular. Characters are not things to be carefully nurtured and packed away in cotton wool. I know some games would invite you to do that, but not ones where combat is lethal and resurrection is hard! 🙂 Live well today, for tomorrow maybe a 66 E crit to the face!
@@WillyMuffinUK Or getting returned to the dust from whence you came - I hate it when that happens. ;) Yeah, I can see that being fun as well. You lose the whole long term character development, but you gain a lot of variety.
@@ZlothZloth It also adds drama, as character death is a real and present thing... Celebrations are greater when they survive, commiserations are more poignant when they do not.
Yes. Sort of. If you start with the simplicity of BRP/RuneQuest, and then add in some of the nicer chunks of complexity from Rolemaster, and then mix in the odd bit of D&D... ;) To be honest, much of the mark down Rolemaster receives in my opinion is in its organisation. ICE got better at this over time, but they still have a habit of throwing rules at a fan and taping them together in whatever order they are blown into. Bit of an exaggeration, but a valid point, I think.
I have a question on experience points. Looking at chart 15.4.1 (experience points vs. level table) in Character Law & Campaign Law (page. 61), it has different values of experience points required for each level. Level 1: 10, 000 Level 2: 20, 000 Adding 10, 000 points per level up to level 5. Then adding 20, 000 per level and so on. Does the experience points gained return to zero every timea level is gainedl? Or does that chart indicate experience gained in the whole game (XP never returns to zero and is accumulated through the whole game). I'm playing with someone who thinks that XP returns to zero at the start of a new level so that a level 4 character would have to earn 10, 000 (LVL 1) + 20, 000 (lvl 2) + 30, 000 (lvl 3) + 40, 000 (lvl 4) making for a total of 100, 000 xp all together for a lvl 4 character. That'll take too long to progress I think.
@@WillyMuffinUK But isn't there a To Hit roll and then a Defense roll? It seemed like a lot. But looking up stuff on multiple tables was pretty time-consuming. We did enjoy the game but never opted to play it again as only one of our group was really super into GMing it. We did get a kick out of some of the chart results like "Destroy [N number] of silly decorations on enemy's armor." Or something like that. Goofy, but fun.
@@emdotambient No, there isn't. One attack roll, made with a bonus equal to (attacker's Offensive Bonus) - (defender's Defensive Bonus). Result cross-referenced on relevant weapon chart with the defender's armour type. That result provides damage and, if a critical has been scored, the type and severity of critical. So, unlike D&D that always requires at least two rolls to resolve a successful hit, RM requires one unless a crit has been scored. In the latter case, another roll is required to determine the crit result. There are games that need rolls by both attacker and defender - RM isn't one of them.
I'm not, no. Other than playing the odd game or three over it during plague lockdown, I'm not a huge user of Discord. But feel free to post a link to it!
while I loved MERP I had a headache playing this game along with its Cyberpunk brother RPG, Cyberspace. , that one I loved the setting but the system was just too cumbersome. too crunchy.
@@WillyMuffinUK true , also noticed RPGs these days have a lot more imagination and diversity than before. but the systems seems to be less cumbersome less charty.
@@johnwalsh4857 Well, sort of... Wide variety except for every other game is a D20 one. Charty games are still out there, for those that like that form. In general, though, you're right. Over time, role-playing has moved away from its wargaming roots towards a more narrative style of play. In the main. Some games still play like skirmish games with a veneer of role-playing on top, but there are some fantastic games that have some great narrative systems at their heart.
@@WillyMuffinUK yep I hope so, I myself started in board wargaming in the late 70s so Im used to charts in games but found them to be cumbersome later. I prefer a more smoother RPG experience. In this respect the Japanese RPGs from the 80s paved the way for low chart or chartless RPGing. , outisde the English speaking RPG world, Japan I believe has the 2nd largest RPG community. Their published RPGs since the 80s is only 2nd to the USA.
Having played almost all the main RPGs over the years I still think Rolemaster is the best of them. So many great memories from this system especially using it for the MERP games. I never found it too complicated and loved the seemingly unlimited customisation of your character as they progressed, and dealt with higher level characters in a good non-game breaking way.
"Best" is always subjective, but of those RPGs that use a level progression, it is out in a league of its own. It is a solid system.
Ah. Started RPGs when was 11years old. Our friend group bought aD&D and started playing it. Then one day one of us saw Rolemaster. We were in awe. After that newer looked back, playing Rolemaster rules ever since, 32 years now and still going.
RM is a lot like "AD&D with the weird inconsistencies and abstractions taken out of it". It's funny how a good few people's houseruled versions of D&D end up making me think "why didn't you save yourself time and just go to RM instead..."
Nicely organized.
Would like to see further sections about online play(Fantasy Grounds, Roll20, etc.) and possibly comments about streams/UA-cam channels for games, too.
Stay well and much success on these reviews.
Thank-you! I am working on trying to be a little less rambling in my reviews, but... Work in progress.
Online gaming platforms is an idea... I think I'd rather leave them for separate videos - the "history and review" videos are long enough, and going into online possibilities in them would make them even longer to do that side of things justice. So, perhaps I'll follow up my review videos with supplementary videos outlining online play options.
I hope that UA-cam channels that engage in these games feel open to add their comments and links to the reviews. Not sure if I'd want to address them directly. Streams will very likely not appear, except maybe as a mention when I reach more modern games that have embraced that sort of thing. I'm neither a consumer nor a fan of streams as a spectator-sport watching other people play, so I am highly unqualified to provide commentary for that particular scene.
I had a love-hate relationship with Rolemaster. I always felt like house-ruling it a lot, partially because of the slow character development, and partially because of a lot of encumbrance rules etc. But I loved the "maneuver" tables and the attack tables. After I streamlined it to my satisfaction, we had a lot of fun with it. I did not know that the developers started with Middle-Earth. Interesting to know that this was part of the parcel from the beginning. I had a number of Companions but also did not know that RM Companion 2 was the one to get. I do remember some pretty interesting and hefty optional rules in Companion VI, but don't think we ever got around to using it :)
RM is very much one of those toolkit games that lends itself to houseruling. Partially, I suspect, due to its origin as a set of house rules in the first place.
Great video, I loved to hear about the history of Rolemaster, specially the 1st edition. Also, I love to see how well your books still do. Mine are totally broken for the use. (I started with the 2nd edition, and still playing nowadays, even when we moved to RMF)
Also, I don´t think anyone made a better Tolkien based rpg than MERP
I am actually surprised the RM2 books have held up so well, too - especially being softcovers. There are game books that have disintegrated on me - but, except for my RM2 Arms Law, where cover has divorced staples, all of my ICE books have held up really well.
I couldn't agree more regarding MERP. ICE's (and particular Pete Fenlon's) attention to detail and care has not been surpassed - or even approached - by anyone else who has taken on the Tolkien gaming licences.
I'd say that the current adaptation of Tolkien's world for 5E ("Adventures in Middle-Earth") is pretty good. Based off of TOR (The One RIng) which also received some praise from Tolkien fans. What always bugged me with ICE's MERP was the inclusion of "standard high fantasy magic" which never felt right with the setting. Other than that I loved MERP and played it a short time back in the 80's before the rest of my friends wanted to move on to other things.
I was wondering if you were going to nod to RM’s influence in 3rd Edition-so that was a nice pay off at the end. In the 1980s I grew up with AD&D and MERP, with some dabbling into Role Master via MERP. Which is why I think 3.0/3.5/Pathfinder 1 to this day are my favorite versions of D&D. At the time, 3.0 felt like the synthesis of the two older systems that I only partially knew I had been craving. Years when I read that Monte Cook had first worked for ICE before jumping to TSR, the direct genealogy between Role Master and 3.0 was unavoidable. Thank you for another great review.
Thank-you!
I'm generally not a fan of Monte Cook's work in the D&D/D20 sphere, and in one way the fact that 3E needed a 3.5 so relatively soon backs that feeling up a bit. But I do like 3E, and he did produce the odd thing or two I like.
But yes, when 3E first came out, I was very much in a "this feels very familiar..." camp that found it quite difficult to convince others.
It would be great to show people example of gameplay, as there really isn't anything on that here on UA-cam. This is the best RPG for adults hands down and I was very disappointed that you gave it a 3 out of 5. I have been playing since 1975 and came into Rolemaster around 1981 or 1982. I spend 3 months reading and re-reading and finally understood it. We played it with two game-masters, due to the complexity, but it was great fun. You should rethink the 3 out of 5. I give it 4.5 out of 5 for adults and would imagine if you were a teen, it would probably be a 3 out of 5, since grasping the granularity would be an issue, coming from 5th edition D&D. 5e players can barely grasp anything these days.
Role-playing games, like all creative pursuits, are a wholly subjective kettle of fish. And that is what this is - my subjective opinion of the game.
Not everyone appreciated the complexity of Rolemaster, or the way the books are organised, or the many variants of it that exist due to the many options published for it. Some do, some don't. There is no objective comparison that can be made - just as in music and art.
The fact that it took you three months to figure it out should tell you all you need to know about ICE's brand of rules organisation!
Anyway - is Rolemaster a good game? Yes. Is it objectively the best game ever? Impossible to make the comparison. Could it be subjectively the best game ever to someone? Of course!
Rolemaster 2nd edition was actually translated in Finnish, and that added to the appeal to the system as a teenager
Always nice to have a game in your native language :)
Excellent informative video. I have Arms Law, Spell Law, and Character Law from 2nd edition but have never used them. Got them used in a bundle of old RPG items. Always intrigued me. I did play a little bit of MERP when it was new. Wish I sset. had the boxed set.
MERP is on my list to delve into at some point. Although Pete Fenlon's maps and Angus McBride's art are what made the game for me.
Cheers, Sir! I missed Rolemaster, and MERP, during my early days of the hobby, but have always wanted to master the system, which I have been doing by slowly working through it in a solo capacity. This was a wonderfully informed video, which shed a lot of light on the game for me. Keep up the good work, and Game On!
Thank-you! I'm hoping to add some RPG tutorial videos - "how to create a character" and that sort of thing - at some point, which may help you. But it is a rewarding game to get into - stick with it, and I wish you luck on your journey!
Hi Quest Wise - as mentioned above I'd be happy to help if you have any questions in terms of getting your head around this game
I played D&D, Gamma World, James Bond, many others but Nothing has captivated my interest like Merp/Rolemaster. Great videos!
Thank-you! I do think Rolemaster stands out. It is certainly a permanent fixture of my top 5, the order of which shuffles a fair bit. I definitely do believe it does not get the love it deserves. It's great to hear from people that enjoy it!
Back in the 90's I used to play MERP + Rolemaster 2nd Edition with some friends. In our case, we went with a "minimal mechanics" type of approach, in the sense that as players, we didn't worry about all the tables ourselves, and let our GM take care of that. We did the rolls ourselves, but the GM took care of all the table lookups. This meant that the mechanics themselves became mostly invisible to us, and we relied on the GMs explanation of the outcome. This put a strong emphasis on the immersion rather than the mechanics, and discouraged any sort of META gaming that have become quite common more recently, with the strong computer game influence on RPGs. For us, this approach worked really well, and some of my best gaming memories, of any type, date back to that time with Rolemaster and Middle Earth :)
That's an approach I use from time to time, even to the point where the players don't have character sheets - they just have narrative descriptions of what they're good at etc. It saves the game from conversations like "what skill level do you have in X?".
Not every time, though. Sometimes you just want a game to be a game.
Great overview for Rolemaster. I always wanted to play when I was younger and no one was interested. Now I finally get to play and run it, so all this information is extremely helpful.
Thank-you - I'm glad you found it useful, and enjoy your time with Rolemaster 🙂
Great video, lots of what appeared to be shooting from the hip, which is always a good sign that you know what you're doing (as long as you hit the traget). ;) I've loved Rolemaster since I got into it in the early-mid '80s. The charts, the charts! How I love the charts...or at least, I really love all the varied descriptions of what you can do (and get done to you) by spells and weapons. So graphic in the face of the usual hit points. And open-ended rolls! Probably the mechanic that I love the most. The concept is fantastic, and you'll always remember that heroic shot you took right in the troll's eye just when you needed it to save your hide (or whatever). Wonderful.
Like many, I would assume, I made my way to RM by way of MERP, and used it to flesh out (at least in my mind) the reduced MERP system. I really hope you do a MERP video. The MERP supplements stand out in my mind as the best rpg supplements ever made.
Great video, thanks.
Thank-you! Yes, MERP will be along eventually. In my opinion, no other game - at least, in maps and source - has done Middle-Earth better (spoilers...).
Strangely, I came to RM before MERP, picking up the rules originally to get a basis for comparison for the RM and MERP stats in the Mirkwood MERP sourcebooks.
@@WillyMuffinUK Very good news then. I eagerly await your usual in-depth look at MERP, whenever that might be. I guess I can't say that I know how popular or not it actually was at the time, but I certainly never met others that played it, and that always seemed shocking to me even as a kid that others weren't as blown away as I was by MERP and its amazing supplements.
Excellent job of breaking it down! My group of friends played many rpgs (champions, ADD, toon, battletech, traveler, melee and ice) in the 80s. I found ICE to be both the most detailed and the most tedious. A simple battle could take 4 hours to complete. For that reason it was the rpg we were least likely to play.
It has an appeal, but yes... Sometimes things can take a while to resolve. It's not so bad most of the time, though.
Rolemaster was the first system I brought for myself and I've love it to this day. All so I see Solaris VII for Battletech/Mechwarior in the background :)
Heh... there's quite a lot of BattleTech in the background!
Excellent video. Very informative. I only ever played some MERP long ago but I happened to get some old RM books (1984 edition) in a used RPG lot long ago and would like to try it out.
You'll find some familiar ground from your MERP experiences if you do manage to give RM a go. Give it a try 🙂
LOL I bought the 1st edition Arms Law, Spell Law, Claw Law, Character Law and Campaign Law then. I didn't know. I liked Rolemaster and the Middle-Earth modules (though not MERP as much). Later, Future Law but I didn't get into that one as much. I didn't try the campaign world they were selling, I was more interested in Tolkien. Thank you for reviewing this, good memories.
The Middle-Earth modules were very detailed and well researched, it seemed to me. And those maps... oy.
I had never heard of War Law. TSR introduced mass combat rules as well, I think to defend against Warhammer.
The 1987 stock market crash had an effect on many of the companies I think. I blamed Peter Jackson for I.C.E. losing the Tolkiens rights.
Battle System was the D&D mass combat game. As for Peter Jackson - there may be a grain of truth there, at least in the LOTR rights holders looking to maximise the $$$.
Another great video that brought back memories 😀
I think your RPG game progression was similar to mine!
D&D/AD&D/MERP/RM/CoC/Paranoia/RQ
The quality of the Iron Crown MERP supplements was generally excellent and for me, captured the spirit of Middle Earth. I look forward to catching up on the rest of your RPG videos!
It was actually Traveller/D&D/AD&D/CoC/RM/RQ/many others 🙂 MERP's supplements were gorgeous, but I only played the game itself a few times - usually drew from them for RM and others.
@@WillyMuffinUK I forgot two other major games I played. FGU’s Bushido, which was a great system if you could slog though the rule book which I seem to remember made RM seem a light read 😉
I also ran a campaign based on the Thieves World boxed set using SPIs Dragon Quest. I was a big fun of the books but don’t recall why I ended up using DQ…
Many hours of fun though both preparing the campaign and running it.
Thank you for explaining a game I use to play but never fully understood the big picture .
Inspired to hunt down some of the older books.
Hopefully you might find it easier second time around :)
Hey I’m late to comment but what a great review. Actually listened to the whole thing - including the history - and was interested the whole time. Thanks much!
Never too late :) And thank-you - glad you found it interesting!
I've kept a copy of 2ed Spell Law forever, probably because its non-Vancian magic was so different and interesting. However, this level of complexity in combat is quite daunting (charts for each weapon plus chart for different type of critical-piercing bludgeoning slashing, etc.) This can be all abstracted and is in OSR games today, like the Shields Shall Be Splintered rule, sacrificing your helm to prevent one crit, the idea of weapon types that have different effects (without a chart). I actually appreciate these evolutions so much more now and see that it is truly the future. Don't eliminate the coolness of armor and weapon effects, just keep them in your roll but a single blurb where it happens on a 1 in 6, 1 in 10, or 10 in 100. It amazing how you can take a bare bone system like OSE and add some house rules to get what you want.
Essentially, all the ICE guys were doing is houseruling D&D to get what they needed 😉
It's horses for courses. I understand why the detail and tables of Rolemaster put people off - but I also know what attracts people to it.
That was awesome.
Thank you for your explanation of a game I use to play but never understood the big picture.
Inspired me to maybe hunt down some of the older books.
A great game as you say with a solid system that still has to show up to the world properly
I think it's just gained an unfounded reputation for complexity, which puts people off. In many ways, it's less complex than D&D.
What a brilliant synapsis. Thanks mate.
Thank-you!
My 2e and SS books are in tatters - as in I put them in folders as all the pages are seperated. Just bought the 1e materials, which is nice because of the individual "parchment" cardstock charts.
I'm thinking of playing a game with my wife, who hasn't roleplayers before. One thing I realized is while it is leaning towards combat, it has enough to make a game centered around non-combat adventures.
RMSS is still my favorite, but RM2 is wonderful also.
Thanks for the great video.
There's a lot you can do that's non-combat, and with the Rolemaster experience point system it can be rewarded, too :)
Thank-you, and good luck running the game with your wife!
Interesting history of ICE. I only played MERP, but I picked up a couple Rolemaster supplements because lots of the MERP NPCs had Rolemaster classes or spells. Now I'm thinking about grabbing the classic books (or Rolemaster Unified, if it's ever published) to go back and dive into my vast MERP collection, which I haven't played in nearly 20 years.
Go for it! ICE's MERP books are a masterclass in how to craft setting material :)
Hi there! I stumbled upon your review after searching for some RM-Lore on YT. Thanks a lot for doing this rather in-depth review and comparison video. To me RM always was this mysterious almost foreboding game that I ended up seldom playing (or refereeing) but always being fascinated by throughout my now almost 35 years in the hobby. Got the German release of RMFRP a few years back and slowly built up a modest collection. Now I have expanded said collection to include HARP, Shadow World, Against The Darkmaster (a newer release based on MERP and Open00). But I don't just want to stick to collecting this stuff. After I barely encountered anyone familiar with RM throughout my rpg years (as I planned on playing with a gm that really knew his/her RM stuff) I am now looking to start a game myself (currently most likely through Roll20). I am still on the fence whether I should use RM2 or RMFRP, though.
Why not run simple scenarios with both, and see which you prefer? They have a lot in common, but a lot of differences that make the play experiences likewise different.
Personally, I prefer playing RM2, but prefer RMSS/RMFRP to tinker with - especially from a world building perspective - as a GM.
@@WillyMuffinUK - Thanks for getting back to me. I think I'll follow your advice.
Excellent video for Rolemaster!! Pls do additional videos for Spell Law. 🙂
Thank-you!
As in specific to book, or a narrower zoom-in to Rolemaster magic?
I would love to see u dive into the book. I am fascinated by the Rolemaster system and plan to join a campaign in the near future. Thank u for responding so promptly. 😺
@@valenciajones7742 I can certainly put something together along those lines!
@@WillyMuffinUK Thank u!! I look forward to watching it!!😺
Great video, alot of memories 👏😍
Did anyone ever play a Rolemaster campaign where you didn't start at level 20 or so? At first level you could get killed by a house cat. I wrote my first computer program to prove that, in RM, wearing leather armor was worse than not wearing any armor at all. I mentioned that to the guys at the ICE booth at GenCon one year and they asked if I'd brought the floppy disk because they'd been trying to convince the designer of that and he wouldn't believe them.
The trick was to avoid fighting house cats in leather until you got to 20th.
Thanks this is great episode.
Thank-you!
Hello - really good overview of what can be a very complex but excellent RPG - Rolemaster is my favourite and pretty much exclusive system. You mention in your useful video the Rolemaster Facebook page and that people on there are happy to help/try to help with any questions. I'm on that page and would like to volenteer myself to any of your viewers who may have questions about this system.
As mentioned by Majyk below there are existing tools to cut down on the "massive chart looking up" factor (though this as you know is a fundamental of the game). Another tool is the Rolemaster Combat Minion at www.web.com.au/rolemaster/minion/ which is well worth a look. As a GM I have only recently started using it but it does speed up combat a lot and would be worth interested viewers checking out too.
Look forward to more vidoes
Good points - and to save those looking through Facebook a hunt:
Rolemaster Group - facebook.com/groups/2576550882
Rolemaster page - facebook.com/RolemasterRPG
I remember loving the crit charts and hating character creation
Heh... Sounds about right. Too much maths and looking-up, right?
I like Rolemaster. I still have the 1989 edition of Character Law/Campaign Law and Spell Law. I liked Campaign Law, and I was disheartened it was never included in RM Classic.
I agree. The Campaign Law section provides some good stuff. The RMC Character Law book should have been big enough to hold it.
So much new info. I only know 2nd edition. Spell law, charracter law, arms law. Newer knew they are re-made as ”classic”. We have played 2nd edition for over 30years 😸 The books are disintagrating nowadays. But remembering the rules by hearth
My 2nd Eds are... OK. But then, they haven't had to do 30 years straight - just 15 plus a graceful semi-retirement. The box is somewhat 30% tape, though...
@@WillyMuffinUK :D and some tapes has writing on them to make sentences or tables complete :P
@@SinSorrowEU Ah, not quite! I do have a few games in that sort of state, though.
Great video! My only experience with Rolemaster was back in high school (some, twenty-five years ago). I hated it, but in retrospective it was more the Gamemaster than the system. Nice guy, but every one of his monsters popped up from portals. Every. One. Of. Them. Clearly the sign of a very novice GM. After watching the review, I get the feeling that, with the right person at the helm, I would've had a far better time.
And speaking of games loved by their players and hated by their retractors...will we see a GURPS review sometime soon? ;-)
I firmly believe that the referee has large part to play there, especially since they are the arbiter and interpreter of the rules. But then, in RPGs more than any other game, everyone around the table has a responsibility to everyone else's enjoyment. Players that like playing characters that are basically dicks need to think about that for a minute or two!
As for GURPS - Yes. Eventually. From a SJG perspective, I'll likely get to Ogre and Car Wars before GURPS. But then, it's not like I've figured out any organised schedule to these things yet!
I've played a bit of D&D but mostly Role Master. The D&D I played seemed simplistic in comparison. I loved RM. My sister still has about 16-18 books. Time to crack them open. I see that ICE has come up with a Core set of rules. I think they've come back to the idea of using it with other games. Any thoughts on this new development?
Funnily enough, I'd say it's the other way around - Rolemaster simplifies many concepts that D&D abstracts or makes overly complex. Your mileage may vary!
As far as RMU (the new Rolemaster edition, as yet incomplete in its releases) - yes, I have my own thoughts, which will be in an upcoming video. I just need to absorb it properly first.
Great game system, but you definitely needed engaged players who were interested in how their character was going to advance, there were a lot of choices available , which is heaven if you like that sort of thing, but can look too much for more casual players.
Very true. It's certainly not a Wash & Go system.
Really great info. Well done.
Thank-you!
RM2 is the best. I really wish I could go back in time and get I.C.E. to focus a bit better. I feel like D&D beat them out not because simplicity, but because they didn't focus on their own system and game world(s). The RM optional rules just became ridiculous (how many initiative, action, and battle phase systems do you need? ... it just confuses people). And now, due to changing hands multiple times, and multiple repacking of the system with only Shadow World as a realm to play ... it's a bit of a mess. Such a shame. They could have been the dominate system.
I'm sort of in agreement (although I do prefer RMSS). RM for me is like the Unix to D&D's Windows - Unix does more, but Sun didn't market it properly against the Windows juggernaut, so here we are.
I only got to play Rolemaster a little, but I loved it so much that I got most all the rulebooks and I still read them now and again to this day.
What worries me the most about the game are the criticals! How are you supposed to develop a character over months, never mind years, with those instant death criticals hanging around? Eventually, something is going to get lucky, and your character is going to die in a very messy way. It seems like you would need to avoid combat almost as much as one would in real life. While highly realistic, you better have a GM with a real gift for telling dramatic, non-violent stories.
That sort of is the point with RPGs that have lethal systems - and that includes not just Rolemaster, but also RuneQuest, Traveller, Cyberpunk, and others. If you want to get into a fight, make sure you're as prepared as possible to be able to get out of it on the other side. Balance the advantages vs consequences. And above all, have a new character ready to go, just in case...
You say "what's the point", but the point is in having your character live his best life on the edge, and making sure that, when the inevitable does happen, his end is spectacular. Characters are not things to be carefully nurtured and packed away in cotton wool. I know some games would invite you to do that, but not ones where combat is lethal and resurrection is hard! 🙂
Live well today, for tomorrow maybe a 66 E crit to the face!
@@WillyMuffinUK Or getting returned to the dust from whence you came - I hate it when that happens. ;)
Yeah, I can see that being fun as well. You lose the whole long term character development, but you gain a lot of variety.
@@ZlothZloth It also adds drama, as character death is a real and present thing... Celebrations are greater when they survive, commiserations are more poignant when they do not.
Great review. Exactly what I was looking for. You rated it 3/5. Is there a swords & sorcery rule system you’d rate 5/5?
Yes. Sort of. If you start with the simplicity of BRP/RuneQuest, and then add in some of the nicer chunks of complexity from Rolemaster, and then mix in the odd bit of D&D... ;)
To be honest, much of the mark down Rolemaster receives in my opinion is in its organisation. ICE got better at this over time, but they still have a habit of throwing rules at a fan and taping them together in whatever order they are blown into. Bit of an exaggeration, but a valid point, I think.
Don't forget Swink the Wonder Ferret. 😀
I have a question on experience points. Looking at chart 15.4.1 (experience points vs. level table) in Character Law & Campaign Law (page. 61), it has different values of experience points required for each level.
Level 1: 10, 000
Level 2: 20, 000
Adding 10, 000 points per level up to level 5. Then adding 20, 000 per level and so on.
Does the experience points gained return to zero every timea level is gainedl? Or does that chart indicate experience gained in the whole game (XP never returns to zero and is accumulated through the whole game).
I'm playing with someone who thinks that XP returns to zero at the start of a new level so that a level 4 character would have to earn 10, 000 (LVL 1) + 20, 000 (lvl 2) + 30, 000 (lvl 3) + 40, 000 (lvl 4) making for a total of 100, 000 xp all together for a lvl 4 character. That'll take too long to progress I think.
It does not return to zero. The chart shows total accumulated experience points over the characters career.
What always makes me smile: Impact E critical 100.. ”try a spatula” 🤣🤣 yeah, I think the fight is now over..
Heh... You don't get that sort of evocative result in any other game.
Best fun with Rolemaster...
...round robin...
...pvp arena combat. The system makes it an...entertaining experience for all involved.
You're not wrong! Both RuneQuest and Rolemaster lend themselves to arena gore!
"Table Master" 😅 I only played it in one campaign. We called it Roll Master.
Often fewer rolls than D&D. Combat, for example - one roll gives you whether you hit, and what damage you inflicted.
Unless you scored a crit...
@@WillyMuffinUK But isn't there a To Hit roll and then a Defense roll? It seemed like a lot. But looking up stuff on multiple tables was pretty time-consuming. We did enjoy the game but never opted to play it again as only one of our group was really super into GMing it.
We did get a kick out of some of the chart results like "Destroy [N number] of silly decorations on enemy's armor." Or something like that. Goofy, but fun.
@@emdotambient No, there isn't.
One attack roll, made with a bonus equal to (attacker's Offensive Bonus) - (defender's Defensive Bonus). Result cross-referenced on relevant weapon chart with the defender's armour type. That result provides damage and, if a critical has been scored, the type and severity of critical.
So, unlike D&D that always requires at least two rolls to resolve a successful hit, RM requires one unless a crit has been scored. In the latter case, another roll is required to determine the crit result.
There are games that need rolls by both attacker and defender - RM isn't one of them.
Hope people will see Rolemaster now with Hasbro-WOTC's f-up.
Big hill to climb, but maybe.
Ludicrous that roll20 hasn’t incorporated this system into its platform. The game is perfect for it.
On the other hand, Fantasy Grounds has...
Have 2e. New some of the players. It is fun to pillage from.
RM as a whole is great for pillaging 🙂
Hey Willy are you on the official ICE Discord?
I'm not, no. Other than playing the odd game or three over it during plague lockdown, I'm not a huge user of Discord.
But feel free to post a link to it!
@@WillyMuffinUK Sure! :discord.gg/7fYkMHZ
while I loved MERP I had a headache playing this game along with its Cyberpunk brother RPG, Cyberspace. , that one I loved the setting but the system was just too cumbersome. too crunchy.
There's an RPG out there for all tastes in crunchiness (or indeed crunchiless!)
@@WillyMuffinUK true , also noticed RPGs these days have a lot more imagination and diversity than before. but the systems seems to be less cumbersome less charty.
@@johnwalsh4857 Well, sort of... Wide variety except for every other game is a D20 one. Charty games are still out there, for those that like that form.
In general, though, you're right. Over time, role-playing has moved away from its wargaming roots towards a more narrative style of play. In the main. Some games still play like skirmish games with a veneer of role-playing on top, but there are some fantastic games that have some great narrative systems at their heart.
@@WillyMuffinUK yep I hope so, I myself started in board wargaming in the late 70s so Im used to charts in games but found them to be cumbersome later. I prefer a more smoother RPG experience. In this respect the Japanese RPGs from the 80s paved the way for low chart or chartless RPGing. , outisde the English speaking RPG world, Japan I believe has the 2nd largest RPG community. Their published RPGs since the 80s is only 2nd to the USA.