Been a Calvinist for close to 2 decades. Was looking up commentary to help in BS prep on Romans. Chanced upon Soteriology 101. Blown away by how Scripture becomes clearer without Calvinistic lens. Thank YOU Lord for Dr. Leighton Flowers!
I left Calvinism about 5 yrs ago. I am a pastor and preaching verse by verse through Romans is what sealed it for me ( ironic?). However, I still had gobs of Reformed books. Systematics etc.. all Reformed teaching. So, about 2 months ago, I went into my office and packed up ALL my Reformed books and got rid of them. After I did that I noticed two things. First, my office was a lot more empty, I have since very slowly been rebuilding my library. Second, I could feel the giant exhale.
I love this! Homeschool mother to nine here, creating our home library and I can't get enough of You Tube library tours helping show me and my husband good theological books to disciple our children with. It's so hard to find non-Calvanist/Reformed tours. You need to make a YT video now! Many blessings brother.
@kgar5String So, Jesus was astonished by the lack of belief by Nicodemus because God choose to so? Hmm...I guess God is mad at his own dacrees like the flood?
It’s a true work of the Holy Spirit of God drawing people away from all kinds of religious systems and toward a vital relationship with Jesus Christ Himself.
I left Pentecostalism, WOF and then NAR...found myself listening to JM and Voddie, etc...had no idea anything about Calvinism and thought reformed theology was helping me keep strict guidelines on my living and sanctification...my heart began breaking over the lost loved ones I know and felt there was no real sense of hope in that line of theology. Doomed if you do, doomed if you dont...and the more I listened to you Leighton, the more I was able to decifer the misconceptions. Much like in education, we address the common misconceptions and help students understand where it takes place and then move to a more solid/mastery of the content and skill. Anyhow, I truly appreciate this ministry, attacking the line of thinking not the person is ❤
Most major denom have advantages and disadvantages. The smart thing is placing each one In proper and appropriate perspective. Not all is black and white.
19:45 YES!!! I hear this AAAALLLLL the time! The Augustinian way of thinking has taken firm root in Christianity, even among those who are not outright Calvinists! LET'S RETURN TO THE SCRIPTURES, CHURCH!!!!!
Augustine is not a problem, it's forgetting that his early works are influenced by flirtations with Manichaeism and Platonic dualism, but he ultimately accepted correction from the Councils of Carthage, especially in going from a monergist model of salvation to a synergist model accepted as orthodoxy.
Job 42:11 Then came to him all his brothers and sisters and all who had known him before, and ate bread with him in his house. And they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him. And each of them gave him a piece of money and a ring of gold.
Job 1:12 “Very well,” said the LORD to Satan. “Everything he has is in your hands, but you must not lay a hand on the man himself.” (Satan could not act unless God gave him permission. And even with permission he could go only as far as God commanded. God gives him enough leash and volition to break his prescriptive will all the time, but satan can never act outside his decretive will)
Recently left Calvanisim, because it hurt my heart the implications that by default blames God for. I then started asking questions and got the cliche answers and misused scipture and was made to feel like I was not as smart as they were. My wife and I spent hours asking questions and after leaving found this channel and was great to know that the questions, the implications, the default results we realized and the answers we found have been found and confirmed here, would have been a much easier had I found this first...
@@RenardGarzaro Your statement is so cookie cutte, misused scripture Calvanisitic response regurgetated by the masses of Calvanist. Stick around long enough watching these videos you'll realize how Calvanisim actually impunes the charecter and nature of God. How it makes him the author of the evil that men do. If you dont already realize that you and I are causally predetermined to hold the views that we do, and God causeally determined many to teach against Calvanisim and draw people away from it and because God determined it then you should not speak against what God has determined in advance to happen just sit back and let God causeally draw people away from what he causeally determined to be truth....LOL
I am now slowly leaving Calvinism and coming back home to Provisionism. Please pray for me as I struggle out of it. It’s been a rather traumatic experience.
The more i begin to understand Calvinism, it seems to get further and further from Christianity. To the point where I personally don't see Calvinism as a secondary issue. I know thats not a popular statement just being honest.
I agree too, I don’t really talk about it much because I know a lot of Christian’s believe Calvinism is a secondary issue and that we shouldn’t divide over it. But I feel like Calvinism distorts the nature and Character of God so much. It makes me wonder how can Calvinists be worshipping the God of the Bible? The God of Calvinism is closer to Satan 🤷🏾♀️
Yeah, it gets kind of iffy. Calvinists certainly have a different soteriology than I do. But then Roman Catholics have a different soteriology than I do also. However most of us Noncalvinists have the same Doctrine of God as Catholics. Calvinists have that added tweak of having a different doctrine of God, especially God the Father (paterology?) And limited atonement might be more than just a different soteriology, it might be a different Christology altogether. I’m not educated about these things, that’s just my observations. But the implications of Calvinism are kind of dicey.
Thank God for this ministry!!! Calvanism has had its ups and downs throughout history. This trend will too. We need more non-Calvanist library tours on You Tube.
Love getting to see you brothers in discussion together. Praying for your ministries and I hope you both continue to be a kind and loving example to our Calvinist brothers.😊
Calvin himself wrote that if his theology were taken to far it would have problems. There are others who have compared calvinism and arminianism. I never thought that those were the two options. There is really only one option and that is what scripture teaches. People often don't have trouble with a systematic theology but the problem is not many know the Bible very well.
I came to the Lord in MacArthurs church in 1971. I saw they had an overview of belief before they read the bible. It controlled everything they believed. It harmed me very much.
Yeah, John, MacArthur is whack! he believes you can take the mark of the beast and still get forgiveness and go to heaven as well as being hyper Calvinistic! His hyper Calvinism is responsible for him believing that you can take the mark of the beast & still go to heaven because you’re either elected or damned. Revelation 14 and 20, say you’ll be damned to hell forever if you take the mark of the beast! God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9! God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined! Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1! Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright ! So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says ! Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue. So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8! But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“! Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try! Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
I just love the way calvanist teaching is broken down into the correct way. I’ve always said God don’t hate anyone. Thank you for this clip, I’ve been listening to Flowers for about 2 years and I have learned so much. I learned it because I have family members Thst are calvanist .
I left the RCC and thought Protestant Churches would be so easy, was I wrong. I keep away from both Armenian and Calvinism, I love your Theology. God Bless all you do for God's children.
@@exag0ra no. God can save whomever He wants. That's ultimately His business, not mine But why leave the fullness of Christianity for a pale imitation?
@@HrvojeSL I get what you're saying, but is it more about the church you attend and the tradition, or is it more about following Christ and His commands? This is my problem and why I asked the question. When pressed, the vast majority of Catholics and Orthodox say the same thing: "You can't be saved outside the Church." Ironically, Catholics and Orthodox mean the church they attend--their institutional church. But both can't claim the same thing, so who's right?
@@exag0ra I too affirm that strictly speaking "outside of the Church there is no salvation" This is dogma. However it is also true that we are bound by the Sacraments, but God is not. To go along with this we can say that we know where the Church is, but we cannot say with certainty where it is not. As to the Catholic/Orthodox divide, there are far better people to answer this than a recent convert to Catholicism like myself. But for what it's worth I believe we are two halves of the same Apostolic Church. We both have the same Sacraments. The fact that we are divided is a tragedy. I hope some day, somehow by God's grace we reunite again. And Orthodoxy is a far better option than any protestant group
Jesus Himself told us and both Paul and John reminded us that to distinguish any false gospel, whether it’s the prosperity gospel or any other antichrist doctrine we have to look at the fruit. I knew even before I realized the deeper roots of Calvinism that something was amiss. Love was growing cold in my own heart. My first love being God’s demonstrated love toward mankind. HE LOVES US! The virtue of Christ via the fruit of the Spirit is our pillar and cloud. Knowledge is good but it’s not in itself fruit. Think simple! Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness…etc. The Spirit confirms His Word!
Praying for James White. Of course, I usually pray for your ministry, Leighton. You've always been kind, helpful and supportive. I think we even met years ago under friendly terms.🙏
People are leaving Calvinism because there are more people exposing the nonsense of their false gospel! I love hearing about people leaving Calvinism! I imagine them coming to the realization that "whom the Son sets free is free indeed." Of course, Calvinism isn't the only false gospel that people are sucked into. But, I think it's the most dangerous because it is the most sly. I see Calvinism as the religion of narcissists. They are so entrenched that they can't even begin to acknowledge their hypocrisy. Pharisaical spirit behind Calvinism. "We are the chosen and everyone else is already damned before they were born." That's what the Pharisees believed!
In a way, maybe it’s good that at debate most the audience are Calvinists because it means more Calvinists will be exposed to a presentation against Calvinism, which they have probably never actually listened to properly before. Hopefully it will put some stones in their shoes. May God bless you both abundantly, especially as you both prepare for these debates. And I pray God blesses James White and gives him some extra grace and eye-salve so that he would see the error of Calvinism and come out of it. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if James White left Calvinism? Please God, make that happen.
Thank you so much for this channel. I was involved in a popular Calvinistic church before I knew exactly what Calvinism was. I was taught that everything I knew about salvation, including my own was wrong and that in fact John 3:16 was meant only for the elect. It never sat well with me, but I also felt there was a fair amount of cultish behavior that attempted to woo people into the church via “exclusivity” and popularity. At the time a very well known Christian music artist was the worship pastor and there was so much meant to lure young people in at the time. I feel like they used shiny recruiting to bring in people then indoctrinate us on the back end via mandatory courses and studies. I was unfortunately involved in this movement for several years, but finally left when the Holy Spirit revealed to me that I was meant to be more than a “soulless God drone”. It’s been a long process to release the Calvinistic imprint on me, but I’m so grateful for the truth being presented on channels like this.
In Jeremiah 7 God says, "People built places to sacrifice their children (in fire) to foreign gods, and He (God) says, "I did NOT COMMAND this, nor did it enter my mind." So, while God does predestine some things, this verse clearly says NOT everything. It's like a university predestining a football team (they WILL have a team next season) but giving free will to players themselves to decide whether or not to come out for that team. God, in His Sovereignty, has the POWER to give mankind a certain degree of free will to choose to follow or reject Him and His Christ. This free will, given to man by God, started in the garden when God said to Adam and Eve, "You can eat from any tree in the garden except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." God did NOT say, "You MUST eat from all of the trees except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil," rather He gave them a choice to eat from whatever trees they chose, except that one specific tree. And by the way, they CHOSE to disobey and eat from the very tree God said not to.
@@BEABEREAN10 well, brother, I don't believe that there is any such thing as freewill, even hypothetically, not even for God. If you want I can elaborate on why I believe that's the case if not I'll just leave it at that
Just joined. This is such a powerful ministry as there are so many taken captive by the doctrines. There are many steeped in Calvinism, once such person, I am sure will never leave because he is a author known in the circles of ligonier. Douglas Bond is a successful historian/lecturer/author- dyed-in-the-wool- reformed presbyterian. People like him make money of the reformed congregants, and there is no way he would ever consider looking at the truth. So, your work is critical. I see reformed theology caving in very soon, especially as we see prophetic events play out in Israel.
15:00 I am actually an Atheist and totally agree on that one. Watching different Christian groups fight each other is a strong argument that they are not lead by some supernatural spirit.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that speaking the truth in love means that you have to be squishy and soft spoken. Jesus always spoke the truth and love and yet he was often quite forceful in his tone.
I’m to the point that Calvinism messed me up so badly that I’m not sure if I’m saved or if God loves me or not. Messed up ain’t it. I’m not one now thankfully but it’s like I have zero understanding now in anything. Please pray for me
Brother, I was there 35- 30years ago! I had to get away from reading the Bible for three months because all I saw was what Calvinism said! Listen to Jacob Prasch! There’s others out there. God, led me to a church 30 years ago that helped me get away from it.! This should help : God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9! God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined! Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1! Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright ! So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says ! Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue. So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8! But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“! Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try! Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
It’s also part of working your salvation out with fear and trembling. You’re figuring it out so you’re at a standpoint of that. Philippians 2:12-13 We all go through trials, and this is a trial for you just read my first message about the 42 youths getting mauled by the two Bears and the reason why that happened ! Acts 14:22 we must go through many hardships to inherit the kingdom of God ! Psalm 126 :5 They that sow in tears shall reap in joy. 6 He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him. God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him, and you’ll get rewards for coming out of Calvinism !
Something to bear in mind. God's love is about who He is. It's not about how worthy we are. God loves you because it is His character to love you. It has never been about your performance. Read the whole prodigal son story. The father was longing for the son's return before the son came to his senses.
I have been coming to the conclusion lately that Calvinism is a cult on par with the Jehovah's Witnesses. I noticed that those who are dogmatic Calvinists would condemn me to hell and call me a heretic and basically act without any love. How can a true Christian be so mean? I think that Calvinism attracts people who have intellectual pride and that converts into spiritual pride. People with spiritual pride are unconverted sinners. The first thing that true conversion does is it destroys human pride. The Calvinists have the doctrine of the deity of Christ which the Watchtower does not but at least the Watchtower does not blaspheme God like the Calvinists do with their doctrines of determinism and sovereignty, etc.
I think the popular intellectuals (JM, RC, etc) have met a need for serious, deep-thinking Christians, so people can end up listening more to the teachers than searching the Scriptures themselves.
BIAS: Understand the following, Leighton: Bias is not favoring a particular belief or position. Prejudice, or bias, is holding a belief without any foundation of knowledge. For example, I was mugged once by a Black man and formed the belief that, "Black's are dangerous." That is bias. If you hold a belief (Provisionism) that is supported by scripture evidence, that is not "bias." One could be wrong, lacking sufficient evidence, but it is NOT bias.
There is too much ego involved when you have spent your whole life preaching Calvinism and have written multiple books. I doubt someone like that would ever change their views
@@johndisalvo6283" Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Wolves as in false prophets under the wrath of God?
Nothing in the Calvinist system is observable in reality. That's what lures people to believe they are exercising great faith in the unknown, but that's also what eventually makes people leave. The denial of reality is eastern mysticism.
I have a theology degree and also 30 years plus walking with the Lord, have been through a few different denominations and my motto is “ neither a Calvinist nor an Arminianist be. Rather be a steadfast humble follower of Yeshua who studies the word so that I can keep His commands.” I also see how 1500 years of Greek worldview, coupled with replacement theology has impacted upon the Word of God and helped give rise to many wrong doctrines. So many western Christians have become so Hellenised that they cannot see the contextual Hebrewness of God’s precious and amazing word
Calvinism reminds me of Mormonism (pre 1978) when they said in the preexistence there where some valiant and some not, therefore some have a chance at the highest heaven and some do not.
Cain killed Abel because he assumed that God was partial, and simply chose to love Abel more. Then Lamech killed two men, thinking that he was elect to do so without reprisal, because he was Cain's son. Calvinism is not that complicated. Its just Satanism, in Christianese.
Good points and Calvinism is the same as jihad in Islam, because they both believe in Inshallah- Gods perfect will to the point of using violence! REF- Calvins Geneva
No, Cain killed Abel because Abel was blessed by God for his obedience. Cain expected that his substandard offering should be accepted by God. Abel loved God. Cain loved himself.
@@sheilasmith7779When you start a comment with "no," you are suggesting that the other person is wrong. Please consider the the following: Why did God say to Cain, "If you do well, would you not be accepted?" He wasn't talking about his offering being accepted, but him being accepted. In other words, God was confronting the lie that Satan was speaking to Satan, that God simply loved Abel more then him. This is why God said, "sin is crouching at your door." If Cain had the humility to ask, God would have explained that he was not rejecting him, but his offering, because it was reflective of his works, rather than what God had done, like Abel's offering. This is the passage James is alluding to when he says, "the scripture says...the spirit that dwells among us lusts toward envy" It is unfortunately translated poorly, but he is alluding to the origin of envy, which leads to murder, having its beginning with Cain. There is nothing in the passage to suggest that Abel was being obedient to anything, since God did not order sacrifices beforehand. Cain offered a sacrifice first, then Abel offered afterward. It says nothing about obedience, but only that Abel offered a "more excellent sacrifice" (Heb 11:4) Again, if Cain had the humility to ask God why he did not accept his sacrifice, it was because his sacrifice represented his works, based on Adam's curse, while Abel's represented God's work of covering Adam and Eve, a memorial of what God had done. The moral of the story is that God accounts righteousness when we acknowledge his righteousness, and not when we show off our works. This is why John says, "his works were evile, but his brother's righteous." (1 John 12:3). Please try to be a little less quick to offer correction to men, without understanding the basis of their reasoning. It is not becoming of a woman of God.
Tedious is the word for it. They would deny the Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox the right to have a magisterium figure out everything for everyone else. But without a Calvinist magisterium, no one would ever come up with their fatalism, which is more fatalistic than the eastern fatalistic religions and philosophies.
2 year old Christian unknowingly looking through Calvinist lenses until about 3 Biblical scholars I listen to disagreed vehemently with Calvinism. I researched TULIP, and I listened to debates, and now I've passed the tipping point. I'm struggling now about where to go from here.
This 66 yr old has learned a lot from you and am even considering taking courses at Trinity. I am one of those that has believed that you have been too cordial towards the Calvinist. In weighing your reasoning carefully, I will have to agree that your approach is justified in general but not in the particulars. The sheep need your kindness and pastoral heart. Men like James White, John MacArthur and yes even those that still speak from the grave like R.C. Sproul and Johnathan Edwards. are not sheep but Shepherds leading the sheep astray, Paul used harsh words for such men that troubled the flock and so did Jesus. If Calvinism is not "another gospel" there is no such thing. John MacArthur is my elder in years and knowledge but not in matters of the faith and I would rebuke him to his face. These men with their large platforms are destroying the flock and need to be treated accordingly.
There's no fruit of the Spirit (which Spirit is never a part of their conversation), because no one doing works for salvation gets sealed by the holy Spirit. Romans 11:6 GNT His choice is based on his grace, not on what they have done. For if God's choice were based on what people do, then his grace would not be real grace.
@@SSNBN777 so God does not wait for a man to decide,but rather God decides ,so salvation is an act ,not a thing , God brings (delivers)a dead man to life. The Spirit of God now dwells in him bodily,like it did in Adam before he became spiritually dead. The dead man cannot reject God bringing him to life ,because he simply can’t he’s dead .
O my gosh. Im in the UK and after being horrified and bewildered by what our pastor is teaching, and the tone in which he is preaching it, after googling his old college I think it is Calvinism. Listening to videos like this it comes across as a truly crazy making rabbit hole of eternal complicated circular arguments about things we will never know the answer to anyway and cheerfully discussing peoples eternal damnation.... when we could be concentrating on helping those in our community and the world who need our help and being more loving and kind! I think even if you have left Cakvinism... Stop discussing it, get out and save your sanity!
I had a awe inspiring thought that I got from a messianic Rabbi......When Christ comes back is he gonna say OK let me get all my calvanists let, let me get the Roman catholics? No he is gonna say "I AM COMING FOR MY BRIDE!"
James White at 1:44 mark - "I don't know who the elect are , and neither does anybody else in this life..." When Paul says "Believe on that Lord Jesus Christ and THOU shalt be saved," the use of the pronoun, thou, indicates that in Paul's mind there is hope for the Philippian jailer, that there is a good reason for the Philippian jailer to not run himself through with the sword because Paul has good news FOR HIM and it could not be more personal. Were Paul operating at that time under the narrative of "I don't know who the elect are" then Paul's message to the jailer could have been worded in a more honest way - "If you happen to be elect, you will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as a consequence of being born again."
Good relationships with Calvinists is great… but I find that calvinist pastors tend to be rigid and legalistic and (unlike Paul and the boreans)not open to being challenged.
@@RenardGarzaro You are right. Grace has no relationship to legalism. You are also right about noticing that the problem boils down to definitions. It is hard to have a productive conversation when the same words have different, even opposite, meanings. As a side note, there is frequently a high level of contempt loaded in discussions with those who call themselves reformed.
I don’t see anywhere in Scripture that God is glorified by his condemnation of certain people from eternity. When our children, whom we love, do something wrong, do we instantly hate and reject them, or do we seek reconciliation because we love them? God is called the Father for a reason, because his main characteristic IS love, then his judgements are based on that love, and always for a reason, not arbitrarily.
Exactly right. God is already maximally glorious within himself, he doesn’t need more glory from showing his wrath by creating people fo he’ll!@@user-hk2fr3mc9d
One of the main ways that God gets the glory in a terrible sin and crime like a rape, is by being thoroughly against it! By hating it, and by judging it! And by being throughly _sincere_ in His hatred of that sin, and all the other sins. Gods heart is righteous and pure; He IS the truth; He is love. We forget this basic truth, acting like God's righteousness is small potatoes for the neophytes, who arent theologically sophisticated enough to realize that it ain't necessarity so. This attitude screams that they're listening to another spirit! You have to ignore a lot of inspired scripture to put a theology which denies Gods nature abd character before it. But we are meant to trust the person of God for being righteous, true, love, merciful, and to be like Jesus demonstrared in His life on earth. And a rape, or other heinous sin, is not "meaningless", unless you mean by that something like "meaninglessly cruelty", etc. God allowed it to take place, but at the same time, He can be trusted to mean it when He says that He hates it, and there is reason to trust Him. He didn't want it; He didn't tempt them to do it, says the Bible. His allowing it to happen has to be meaningful, too. But it's an abomination to say that He wanted the sin and made it happen, all the better to call it "meaningful", in what fun-house, morally upside-down universe? If that was true, the "meaning" God would be attaching to it is diabolical. And we know our God is not diabolical.
1:05-ish. Dr. Flowers sharing why he doesn’t call out Calvinists as heretics and suggests those who want to do that make their own YT channel. Makes me think of two specific guys on Jordan & Jason’s YT channels that often comment calling us Self-worshippers and saying free = ignorance. They should start their own channels. Non- Calvinists are living rent-free in their heads and maybe that would help them. 🤓
1:27 what a snarky ad hominem remark against Jason! “If a serious person…” 1:35:40 regarding babies Dr Flowers makes an interesting comment about how most of the babies Calvinists are fighting for are actually hated by God. John Calvin said “Although we must recollect that God would never have suffered any infants to be destroyed except those which the Lord had already reprobated and condemned to eternal death.” - John Calvin, Commentary on Deuteronomy, 13:15.
What a person believes or does not believe determines a persons eternal location. How that person lives will determine the degree or level of their eternal experience.
@@sheilasmith7779 I do not agree with your comment "Whatever a man believes he will live accordingly ." So please allow me to ask you this. Do you ever sin against God ?
@grizz4489 I am not speaking of religious beliefs but the everyday sinful beliefs about others we hold and act upon. It's the reason repentance is a condition of salvation. Read comments from Cheistians to other Christians online, and you will understand what I am saying. The conduct is appalling, and a horrible example to non christians. That's my point.
Romans 5 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the UNGODLY. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
I don't know! Paul did outright call people false teachers, and said let them be accursed who preach false Gospels, but I think he was referring to people who were doing this deliberately, rather than people who were mislead or misunderstanding the scripture. There's a difference between misunderstanding the scripture, and getting things wrong, as opposed to be a false prophet who deliberately perverts the Gospel. Loads of Christians have Calvinist leanings, and later God corrects then if they are genuine believers who have accepted Christ saviour. I believe that God always corrects his own children who have misunderstood his word in a warped way.
Concerning God creating the reprobate, this is what I've heard from Calvinists: "God desires to show forth ALL His attributes, and one attribute is His wrath; so it glorifies God when He vents His wrath upon these reprobates persons." Two things are true of God's essential nature: He is holy and He is love. All other "things" are attributes of God which stem from His holiness and His is love. For many years I pondered over God's holiness and His love and this is where I came to: What God holiness demanded, His love provided." God's "desire" is not to create reprobate people so He can vent His wrath upon them, but to provide for them a "way" that takes it off the table. God is still holy and just, but in His love He provided for us by sending His Son. Also, on "emotionalism." We are to love God with our minds. The word mind there means to think through a thing. When someone drills down the Calvinistic philosophy with their minds the Calvinist claims, "you're being too emotional" rather than see that it is actually taking the time to drill down into the philosophy and see and understand where it ultimately leads. It is not being "emotional." It being "real." It is the ultimate end of believing in theistic determinism and has nothing to do with being emotional. Rather than the Calvinist asking, "is this true?" they throw out a blanket called "emotionalism" and reject what is being said. Calvinists please start asking, "Is this true".
At 1:49:00 - When he says, "It makes no sense," you have to understand the underpinning idea of immutability and impassibility, and how it leads to the Calvinist interpretation of God's "glory." His glory is the necessary manifestation of both his love and wrath, because he is both things equally and unchangeably. It makes sense if you understand that they worship a different God, who alone is just to be angry and hate without a cause.
2 thoughts: 1. James White calls Provisionism a belief in "peanut butter grace". Wouldn't Calvinism also believe in "peanut butter grace", except it's crunchy peanut butter instead of smooth peanut butter? Or better yet, the peanut butter stays in the jar, and only the bread that was put in the jar before the jar was sealed ever gets any peanut butter on it. It's an interesting way to mock his opponents, but it doesn't do anything to advance his argument. At all. Just makes him look petty. 2. Many verses talk about people who will be blessed if... (John 13:17, James 1:25, Proverbs 3:18, etc) Calvinism takes these and has to flip them on their heads: - Now that you have been blessed since the beginning, you know these things and will do them. - Now that you have been blessed in what you do since the beginning, and have looked intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, you will continue in it, not forgetting what you heard but doing it. - Now that you have been blessed since the beginning, you will take hold of wisdom, and she will be a tree of life to you.
Q: Why does a provisionist believe in peanut butter grace? A: Because it is the only way out of the jam that Calvinism got him into. Feel free to use this in debate with Dr. White if he brings up that analogy. ;)
The teaching of Jesus is not about the sacrifice of his blood and flesh, the power of crucifix, amd holy water but he want us to turn to him personally to guide our souls to live a holy life full of love!
Once again Leighton, You get an A for explaining the falsehoods of Calvinism, however, an F for not calling it another gospel. You claim to error on the side of love, but, when the truth of God’s Word is compromised, you continue (and your guest) to mention those who teach another gospel as friends and brothers in Christ. This in itself is confusing and sending the wrong message to those who see Calvinism as a somewhat viable teaching in the body of Christ. A true story of love and rebuke. I had left one particular church for shall we say, unhealthy spiritual reasons and beliefs and Over a short period of time, started attending another church, even filling in for one of the pastor’s, teaching their class when out of town. After a series of events, I was alerted to the “ongoings” that were happening at the church I had earlier left. One of those being an incident in the church where one of the ”single” church workers involved in ministry made advances towards another man’s wife, who happened to be the church secretary, and Sunday school teacher, and was complicit in welcoming the advances of the minister. The secretary (as many do) always had the ear of the head leadership in the church, and made known to them how unhappily married she was to her husband. Of course, without confirming with the husband all they were hearing, they believed her, and with great approval led her to believe that she could continue outside relations with this other man if she moved towards separation. In the course of less than a year, the surface relationship continued and the head leadership of the church ending up ordaining the church worker into fulltime ministry knowing that he was involved with another man’s wife. After ordination the relationship had become full-blown to the point where the secretary had seperated from her husband, ended up divorcing him and married the new ordained minister a year later. What started out as several meetings with the head pastor out of love and concern, eventually turned into God having me rebuke the head pastor, eventually telling him that God did not recognize Him as a minister, nor the church as a fellowship for being complicit in adultery while sweeping the matter under the rug. After several months had past, I learned the church leadership repented and fired the minister in question. The two involved in adultery are still married and are involved in another church in leadership. What started out in love and concern was led to a stern rebuke and eventual repentance. I have to say, you and your guest as stated in this video as to salvation having some relevance with Calvinism, is demonic, and that when Jesus stated, “if I be lifted up, I will draw all men” is not a mystery as implied in this video. You continue to treat Calvinism as a secondary issue, loving your so-called brothers in Christ to spiritual death by not treating it as another gospel. Calvinism is one of the worst invaders of the Christian church much like the batting of the eye when it comes to adultery in the church. God’s love is not love when rebuke is left out of the message. You are a great example of why the “church” has lost its backbone, and why the word “love” has been missed used in the doctrines of church behavior and teaching. The apostle Paul if confronted with this teaching, would have deemed it as coming from the father of lies, he would have exercised it out of the church. Tit 1:12-14 One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth. Tit 2:11-15 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works. Declare these things; exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no one disregard you.
Seems to me, the ones preaching a false gospel are the ones who take the power from Christ's atonement and then give that power to a sinful person. It's not the Calvinists who do that.
In Jude, we're told that even the Archangel Michael "would not speak a slanderous word against the devil, but said, "The Lord Rebuke You.'" Yet James White has no problem speaking slander against his brothers in Christ, people whom God, according to White, determined to believe the way they do.
I have a feeling there will be a lot of people who need your ministries. We just left a former traditionalist church because it's been infiltrated by 2 Calvinist pastors. We left when we saw the signs. We told people but they cannot see it on r do not want to spend time figuring it all out or they don't want to be slammed with a charge of "disunity'. We have to really look hard to find a church that is not leaning Calvinist. Checked out 9 marks and Gospel Coalition lists as well as point blank asked the pastor. The ones who give you a wishy washy answer,.lean that way but are not telling their congregations. We finally found one that said definite "no!". Our old pastor when challenged said he would rather be called a reformed Baptist 😂 I'm sure some of the ignorant ones said "see, they're wrong, he's still a Baptist". My old congregation will find themselves in a while in need of either bending or leaving. We left the church after being there for 25 years and being very involved. Stealth calvinism takeover of formerly non-Calvinist churches is a "thing". There will be big fallout some day when the congregants really follow out what it all means. Calvinism really does change the nature of God
1:24:40 there's that one viral clip of a female judge recognizing an old childhood friend she's sentencing. I saw a recent update he turned his life around after getting out of prison.
I lead a church in South Africa. I have never been a Calvinist, but I have been in Calvinist churches before where I found Calvinism is not emphasised. Members don’t really know that there is Calvinism going on. Calvinist teachers are attractive because they are well educated. It seems they are very few non Calvinist but Bible based leaders and local churches.
6:33 A difficult thing - we need to really study both sides. This applies to hell - eternal conscious torment or conditional immortality. But hell has become a sort of shibboleth. Ironically, chris date, the calvinist has a lot of good info. As does Edward fudge.
Also when they talk about the Old Testament, God made away for a mixed multitude. The mixed multitude came out of I Egypt with Israel. Jonah went to Nineveh. Sodom and Gommorah would have been spared if there were righteous people there. God loved more than just Israel in the Old Testament.
That's right. Psalm 66:16 KJV *_Come and hear, all ye that fear God,_* and I will declare what he hath done for my soul. Acts 13:26 NASB95 "Brethren, sons of Abraham's family, *_and those among you who fear God,_* to us the message of this salvation has been sent.
Kevin at BTF is going to far in the opposite extreme. He teaches that the teaching offices of the church, mentioned in Ephesians 4, were meant to cease. It's like a hyper-dispensationalist, hyper-cessationism. People need to read the whole counsel of the word.
He's also going quite far in the _departing from the Bible_ direction, too. He doesn't want to be "held back" from wherever his ruminations take him. I hope for him that he wakes up.
They will be "debating" this stuff until Christ returns. There are ditches on both sides of the debate. Its like the "free grace" vs "lordship" debate or the God sovereignty vs freewill debate. The truth it appears, and I dare to say it on this channel, leans 75% towards the doctrines of grace/calvinism without having to pick a side and plant a flag on either side of isms or ists. The limited atonement or double predestination non-sense is nothing more than philosophy of man. In all my study, in regards to soteriology, God chooses AND man chooses, God doesn't choose and man doesn't choose. Yet God doesn't just conform to mans choice. I can't fully understand that this side of eternity. I'm just thankful He had mercy on me.
I use to listen to him ( BTF ) until i listened to his video about free grace theology and his comments and bias toward (GES) totally turned me off. He along with the others in that video completely misrepresented the views of free grace theology and GES. All the comments sounded so arrogant . I have not and will not listen to his videos anymore. Aside from all of that he has just become wayyy out there in my opinion.
@@grizz4489GES teaches that faith is just an intellectual assent to facts. It's false doctrine. Bob wilkin said if you believe that George Washington was the first president of the United States, then you know what it means to have biblical faith. This guy has no idea what biblical faith is these are all false teachers beware of Grace Evangelical society. Faith is trusting Jesus, it is not simply just acknowledging his existence
I had to move to a john macarthur church in my locality through covid. There were no other churches local that would have love for "dissenters". So i find myself at a church i don't completely agree with because others would not accept me and my family because we did not fall in lock step with needles , masks and lies.
In light of these words; "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.", I suggest one be very careful that one's basic conception is of an eminently lovable God. If He's not really all that lovable, you might want to reconsider your basic concepts of Him, what is going on, and what the Book is telling us about Him.
I'm not sure. If you take the power from Christ's atonement on the cross and give the saving power to a sinful person, how will that sinner keep from losing his salvation? But if it's God alone who saves (Ps 3:8, Rev 7:10-12), then he can keep them (Eph 1:13-14)
To a sinful creature? Are you not supposed to be a new creature… with a new heart? And the mind of Christ…. With the armor of God ? Able to withstand the dart? Has not God made a way to escape every temptation? And your still a sinful raggedy Ol worm? This is the very first issue of Calvinism! The T ( tulip) … the total depravity of man! I suggest a study of Ezekiel 18 . This disproves not only “ born sinner” but also OSAS ( vs 24)
@@dougtibbetts857 All of what you said happens when Christ saves you, not before. Christ saves sinners; Sinners do not save themselves. "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost." (Luke 19:10) "The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost." (1 Timothy 1:15)
Yes… but that has nothing to do with anything I spoke of. Christ provided the atonement but we must accept it and ( red letters) deny ourselves ( quit sinning), pick up our cross, and follow Him( biblical faith which is works) We must also finish the race( don’t quit), and if( not when) we sin we must call upon our advocate Christ
I like how open-mindedness is reserved only for those who are convinced. To rebuttal or have any hesitation to the other side's presentation is being close-minded. From Matthew 7:22-23 "On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’" Assuming you're reading this literally, if i were to cast out a demon and do mighty works in His name and witnessed with my two eyes that I did indeed do such things (the text does not indicate otherwise), then why would I doubt I'm wrong, especially when Scripture instructs me to not be tossed to and fro by every wave of doctrine? If by this logic I'm convinced I'm right, then what logic can the Arminian offer to save me? If I'm wrong, and it was Scripture that convinced me otherwise, then Scripture or God is of no help. The Arminian's argument is my only hope.
The whole, you can’t respond when you are dead never made sense to me. Lazarus was dead and heard and responded. Ezekiel and the dry bones heard and responded. The widow of Nains son heard and responded. Jarius’ daughter heard and responded. If never got that argument.
Lazarus WAS dead - until Someone MADE him alive, whereby he could respond to Christ's command. Doubtful that Lazarus was able to "come forth" until he was GIVEN life.
The narrow way is only narrow because Jesus is the only way to Heaven. He is the only door. It's not that it's hard to be saved, rather it's Jesus is the only way, and so people get deceived by pluralism.
I would probably not attend a Reformed congregation where the TULIP acrostic was taught from the pulpit, but I would avoid any pastor that said God can't absolutely save any person that he wants to save, or that God lacks the means to fully save any sinner. I believe in monergism - that salvation is totally the work of God. TULIP was first used in 1905 and its useful for what it is, but I avoid congregations that dwell on anything but Bible expository teaching when they feel they need to make the Bible seem humanly fair or egalitarian.
I love the content and message you provide for the body of Christ. Keep up the great work. 🙏🏼💟✝️ While I agree we must do things in love, love is demonstrated in various ways. A love for truth means we correct what is false, and sometimes that means with open rebuke: “Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.” Galatians 2:11-13 NKJV ““Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.” Matthew 12:33-34 NKJV Was Jesus or Apostle Paul not showing love when rebuking or correcting others? Let’s not conflate passivity with love. There is a time to be gentle and a time to be stern. Speaking softly can be done in love and so can a hard reprimand. Wisdom to discern which is needed is key. Jesus spoke softly to sheep without a shepherd and spoke harsh to the religious hypocrites. Let’s try to not paint over Jesus or the apostles, with a velvet brush as if there’s no room for degree of delivery all done in love. 🙏🏼💟✝️
I don't agree with you Leighton in the way we should treat this matter of calvinism. You know the scripture better than me, you know the verse very well, if anyone preaches another gospel let it be anathema, and calvinism is clearly, 100% a different gospel. Salvation by sovereign decree, not salvation by faith. By calling calvinists your brothers and sisters and recognizing them as members of the body of Christ I think you are diluting your own message. Why preach against calvinism for 15 years if you think they are all saved? Why do you do this? Just because you like your form of christianity more than theirs? I thank you and God for guiding people out of calvinism, but I think a more serious and straightforward approach is needed for better results. You are not going to convince the prideful calvinists like James White with kind words and calling them your brothers and sisters. We need to make them know they are following a false gospel and that there is no salvation in what they believe, in fact, their view of God is an insult to his holiness. We can't call them brothers and sisters, in the end you are giving them a license to keep following their heresy without rebuke.
When they talk about love, How does the notion that actions should be motivated by love influence discussions, especially when disagreements arise? Dont the pushback in the negative often come as a result of personal attacks or shifting the goalposts (logical fallacies)?
8:20 Leighton I think you’re making this a little complicated. All you’re saying is you’re a Christian. You’re just describing Christianity. So you’re a Christian, that’s it 👍🏻
Along the lines of regeneration preceding faith, I like to ask people: 1. Is union with Christ = salvation? 2. Does union with Christ result from the Gospel or not?
It's funny how the most deterministic people are the most angry, when their own belief says that everyone else's behavior and thoughts are also determined and can't be helped. Massive cognitive dissonance!
“Before you graduate from 101 you have to realize that the good news is for anybody and that anyone can be saved and that’s the foundation for the rest of our soteriological discussions.” Forget “graduating” from 101 you haven’t even ENTERED 101 if someone doesn’t even believe this. This **IS** Christianity, so if one does not believe it they do not believe Christianity. How can one say they are a Christian if they do not believe Christianity?
@@RenardGarzaro my goodness Jesus speaking in parables and being more “cryptic” was a deliberate choice for a TEMPORARY TIME in His earthly ministry intentionally done to ensure the cross would take place. Jesus says about *AFTER THE RESURRECTION:* ”These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will *no longer* speak to you in figurative language, *but I will tell you plainly about the Father.“* John 16:25
@@RenardGarzaro furthermore after the resurrection the apostles were to always speak plainly and use clear language and not conceal anything Remember God wants everyone to be saved and come to repentance. He wants none to perish.
@@RenardGarzaro everyone is drawn by God but not everyone listens to the drawing This is just the gospel in Christianity. I don’t know what gospel you’re believing in but it’s certainly not a good news message for the whole world….
Been a Calvinist for close to 2 decades. Was looking up commentary to help in BS prep on Romans. Chanced upon Soteriology 101. Blown away by how Scripture becomes clearer without Calvinistic lens. Thank YOU Lord for Dr. Leighton Flowers!
Amen!!
Soteriology 101 helped get me out of 5-Point Calvinism which I believed for 41 years.
Praise God!
Hallelujah 😊
Woohoo! Glory to God! Thank you for sharing!
I left Calvinism about 5 yrs ago. I am a pastor and preaching verse by verse through Romans is what sealed it for me ( ironic?).
However, I still had gobs of Reformed books. Systematics etc.. all Reformed teaching.
So, about 2 months ago, I went into my office and packed up ALL my Reformed books and got rid of them.
After I did that I noticed two things.
First, my office was a lot more empty, I have since very slowly been rebuilding my library.
Second, I could feel the giant exhale.
Bless you pastor.
I love this! Homeschool mother to nine here, creating our home library and I can't get enough of You Tube library tours helping show me and my husband good theological books to disciple our children with. It's so hard to find non-Calvanist/Reformed tours. You need to make a YT video now! Many blessings brother.
@kgar5String
So, Jesus was astonished by the lack of belief by Nicodemus because God choose to so? Hmm...I guess God is mad at his own dacrees like the flood?
It’s a true work of the Holy Spirit of God drawing people away from all kinds of religious systems and toward a vital relationship with Jesus Christ Himself.
I left Pentecostalism, WOF and then NAR...found myself listening to JM and Voddie, etc...had no idea anything about Calvinism and thought reformed theology was helping me keep strict guidelines on my living and sanctification...my heart began breaking over the lost loved ones I know and felt there was no real sense of hope in that line of theology. Doomed if you do, doomed if you dont...and the more I listened to you Leighton, the more I was able to decifer the misconceptions. Much like in education, we address the common misconceptions and help students understand where it takes place and then move to a more solid/mastery of the content and skill. Anyhow, I truly appreciate this ministry, attacking the line of thinking not the person is ❤
Most major denom have advantages and disadvantages. The smart thing is placing each one In proper and appropriate perspective. Not all is black and white.
Saved out of Calvinism thanks to SOT 101!
19:45 YES!!! I hear this AAAALLLLL the time! The Augustinian way of thinking has taken firm root in Christianity, even among those who are not outright Calvinists! LET'S RETURN TO THE SCRIPTURES, CHURCH!!!!!
Augustine is not a problem, it's forgetting that his early works are influenced by flirtations with Manichaeism and Platonic dualism, but he ultimately accepted correction from the Councils of Carthage, especially in going from a monergist model of salvation to a synergist model accepted as orthodoxy.
Sola scriptura, just like Luther
So thankful for the Bredas. What a loving brother.
We love you and your family too 😊
Thank you to both of your commitment to the truth of the scripture. Good Boreans 🙏
Found this verse while reading today: Job 36:5 ¶ Behold, God is mighty, and despiseth not any: he is mighty in strength and wisdom.
I've never seen that before! How is that possible? Thank you
@@IlovetheTruth Just read it this morning. 23 years of reading scripture, and you still miss things. God is good. :)
Job 42:11
Then came to him all his brothers and sisters and all who had known him before, and ate bread with him in his house. And they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him. And each of them gave him a piece of money and a ring of gold.
Job 1:12
“Very well,” said the LORD to Satan. “Everything he has is in your hands, but you must not lay a hand on the man himself.”
(Satan could not act unless God gave him permission. And even with permission he could go only as far as God commanded. God gives him enough leash and volition to break his prescriptive will all the time, but satan can never act outside his decretive will)
Job is basically about nothing but the sovereignty of God and the purpose he has in allowing evil
Recently left Calvanisim, because it hurt my heart the implications that by default blames God for. I then started asking questions and got the cliche answers and misused scipture and was made to feel like I was not as smart as they were. My wife and I spent hours asking questions and after leaving found this channel and was great to know that the questions, the implications, the default results we realized and the answers we found have been found and confirmed here, would have been a much easier had I found this first...
@@RenardGarzaro Your statement is so cookie cutte, misused scripture Calvanisitic response regurgetated by the masses of Calvanist. Stick around long enough watching these videos you'll realize how Calvanisim actually impunes the charecter and nature of God. How it makes him the author of the evil that men do. If you dont already realize that you and I are causally predetermined to hold the views that we do, and God causeally determined many to teach against Calvanisim and draw people away from it and because God determined it then you should not speak against what God has determined in advance to happen just sit back and let God causeally draw people away from what he causeally determined to be truth....LOL
@@insiderevolverstudios GOD IS SO GOOD!!!
Thank you Dr. Flowers for all of the long form podcasts you have been doing lately - I get so excited when I see a new one.
Young restless and reformed…. Older wiser and humbled
Amen
I am now slowly leaving Calvinism and coming back home to Provisionism. Please pray for me as I struggle out of it. It’s been a rather traumatic experience.
The more i begin to understand Calvinism, it seems to get further and further from Christianity. To the point where I personally don't see Calvinism as a secondary issue. I know thats not a popular statement just being honest.
I agree too, I don’t really talk about it much because I know a lot of Christian’s believe Calvinism is a secondary issue and that we shouldn’t divide over it. But I feel like Calvinism distorts the nature and Character of God so much. It makes me wonder how can Calvinists be worshipping the God of the Bible? The God of Calvinism is closer to Satan 🤷🏾♀️
Yeah, it gets kind of iffy. Calvinists certainly have a different soteriology than I do. But then Roman Catholics have a different soteriology than I do also. However most of us Noncalvinists have the same Doctrine of God as Catholics. Calvinists have that added tweak of having a different doctrine of God, especially God the Father (paterology?) And limited atonement might be more than just a different soteriology, it might be a different Christology altogether. I’m not educated about these things, that’s just my observations. But the implications of Calvinism are kind of dicey.
True ❤Calvanism is a doctrine of demons-I am a former Calvanist of 30 years, it is a brainwashed evil faith!
Thank God for this ministry!!! Calvanism has had its ups and downs throughout history. This trend will too. We need more non-Calvanist library tours on You Tube.
Love getting to see you brothers in discussion together.
Praying for your ministries and I hope you both continue to be a kind and loving example to our Calvinist brothers.😊
Quit calling them brothers. They deny the Gospel and teach ANOTHER gospel. According to the Bible they are NOT brothers!
Calvin himself wrote that if his theology were taken to far it would have problems. There are others who have compared calvinism and arminianism. I never thought that those were the two options. There is really only one option and that is what scripture teaches. People often don't have trouble with a systematic theology but the problem is not many know the Bible very well.
Sad but very true
I came to the Lord in MacArthurs church in 1971. I saw they had an overview of belief before they read the bible. It controlled everything they believed. It harmed me very much.
How did it harm you? Thanks
All is saw was theological debate and was starving spiritually to have been fed the truth not competition@@branch9422
How did it harm you?
Yeah, John, MacArthur is whack! he believes you can take the mark of the beast and still get forgiveness and go to heaven as well as being hyper Calvinistic! His hyper Calvinism is responsible for him believing that you can take the mark of the beast & still go to heaven because you’re either elected or damned. Revelation 14 and 20, say you’ll be damned to hell forever if you take the mark of the beast!
God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9!
God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined!
Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1!
Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright !
So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says !
Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue.
So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8!
But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“!
Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try!
Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
What is an "overview of belief"?
I just love the way calvanist teaching is broken down into the correct way. I’ve always said God don’t hate anyone. Thank you for this clip, I’ve been listening to Flowers for about 2 years and I have learned so much. I learned it because I have family members Thst are calvanist .
Psalms 5:5 & 11:5 makes it clear that God hates people. He also hates people who shed innocent blood, Proverbs 6.
Just means these are the rebellious people who will not believe on the Lord and be saved.
I left the RCC and thought Protestant Churches would be so easy, was I wrong.
I keep away from both Armenian and Calvinism, I love your Theology.
God Bless all you do for God's children.
Leaving the Catholic Church was your first mistake, my friend
@@HrvojeSLwhy do you say that? Do you believe only Catholics can be saved?
@@exag0ra no. God can save whomever He wants. That's ultimately His business, not mine But why leave the fullness of Christianity for a pale imitation?
@@HrvojeSL I get what you're saying, but is it more about the church you attend and the tradition, or is it more about following Christ and His commands? This is my problem and why I asked the question. When pressed, the vast majority of Catholics and Orthodox say the same thing: "You can't be saved outside the Church." Ironically, Catholics and Orthodox mean the church they attend--their institutional church. But both can't claim the same thing, so who's right?
@@exag0ra I too affirm that strictly speaking "outside of the Church there is no salvation"
This is dogma. However it is also true that we are bound by the Sacraments, but God is not. To go along with this we can say that we know where the Church is, but we cannot say with certainty where it is not.
As to the Catholic/Orthodox divide, there are far better people to answer this than a recent convert to Catholicism like myself. But for what it's worth I believe we are two halves of the same Apostolic Church. We both have the same Sacraments. The fact that we are divided is a tragedy. I hope some day, somehow by God's grace we reunite again. And Orthodoxy is a far better option than any protestant group
Jesus Himself told us and both Paul and John reminded us that to distinguish any false gospel, whether it’s the prosperity gospel or any other antichrist doctrine we have to look at the fruit. I knew even before I realized the deeper roots of Calvinism that something was amiss. Love was growing cold in my own heart. My first love being God’s demonstrated love toward mankind. HE LOVES US! The virtue of Christ via the fruit of the Spirit is our pillar and cloud. Knowledge is good but it’s not in itself fruit. Think simple! Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness…etc. The Spirit confirms His Word!
What a fantastic guy! What a model Christian to be admired for such circumstances.
Praying for James White. Of course, I usually pray for your ministry, Leighton. You've always been kind, helpful and supportive. I think we even met years ago under friendly terms.🙏
Thanks!
People are leaving Calvinism because there are more people exposing the nonsense of their false gospel! I love hearing about people leaving Calvinism! I imagine them coming to the realization that "whom the Son sets free is free indeed." Of course, Calvinism isn't the only false gospel that people are sucked into. But, I think it's the most dangerous because it is the most sly. I see Calvinism as the religion of narcissists. They are so entrenched that they can't even begin to acknowledge their hypocrisy. Pharisaical spirit behind Calvinism. "We are the chosen and everyone else is already damned before they were born." That's what the Pharisees believed!
In a way, maybe it’s good that at debate most the audience are Calvinists because it means more Calvinists will be exposed to a presentation against Calvinism, which they have probably never actually listened to properly before. Hopefully it will put some stones in their shoes.
May God bless you both abundantly, especially as you both prepare for these debates. And I pray God blesses James White and gives him some extra grace and eye-salve so that he would see the error of Calvinism and come out of it. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if James White left Calvinism? Please God, make that happen.
This isn’t debate. This is Calvinist bashing
Thank you so much for this channel. I was involved in a popular Calvinistic church before I knew exactly what Calvinism was. I was taught that everything I knew about salvation, including my own was wrong and that in fact John 3:16 was meant only for the elect. It never sat well with me, but I also felt there was a fair amount of cultish behavior that attempted to woo people into the church via “exclusivity” and popularity. At the time a very well known Christian music artist was the worship pastor and there was so much meant to lure young people in at the time. I feel like they used shiny recruiting to bring in people then indoctrinate us on the back end via mandatory courses and studies. I was unfortunately involved in this movement for several years, but finally left when the Holy Spirit revealed to me that I was meant to be more than a “soulless God drone”. It’s been a long process to release the Calvinistic imprint on me, but I’m so grateful for the truth being presented on channels like this.
Hardcore calvinist myself. But I really appreciated Jason's spirit. He seems to me to be an excellent example of Christian charity
What keeps you on that side?
In Jeremiah 7 God says, "People built places to sacrifice their children (in fire) to foreign gods, and He (God) says, "I did NOT COMMAND this, nor did it enter my mind." So, while God does predestine some things, this verse clearly says NOT everything. It's like a university predestining a football team (they WILL have a team next season) but giving free will to players themselves to decide whether or not to come out for that team. God, in His Sovereignty, has the POWER to give mankind a certain degree of free will to choose to follow or reject Him and His Christ. This free will, given to man by God, started in the garden when God said to Adam and Eve, "You can eat from any tree in the garden except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." God did NOT say, "You MUST eat from all of the trees except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil," rather He gave them a choice to eat from whatever trees they chose, except that one specific tree. And by the way, they CHOSE to disobey and eat from the very tree God said not to.
@@BEABEREAN10 well, brother, I don't believe that there is any such thing as freewill, even hypothetically, not even for God.
If you want I can elaborate on why I believe that's the case if not I'll just leave it at that
@@Mike-qt7jp all right, man
You don't believe in free will then why did God ask Cain what have you done you could have chosen to do what was better
I'm very excited for both your debates coming up with James White! I'm very interested. Either way, I bet that will be worth a watch!
Just joined. This is such a powerful ministry as there are so many taken captive by the doctrines. There are many steeped in Calvinism, once such person, I am sure will never leave because he is a author known in the circles of ligonier. Douglas Bond is a successful historian/lecturer/author- dyed-in-the-wool- reformed presbyterian. People like him make money of the reformed congregants, and there is no way he would ever consider looking at the truth. So, your work is critical. I see reformed theology caving in very soon, especially as we see prophetic events play out in Israel.
🙏yes. We need to root ourselves in word, and take up ground that the enemy has taken.
15:00 I am actually an Atheist and totally agree on that one. Watching different Christian groups fight each other is a strong argument that they are not lead by some supernatural spirit.
Thank you for sharing your faith.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that speaking the truth in love means that you have to be squishy and soft spoken. Jesus always spoke the truth and love and yet he was often quite forceful in his tone.
Paultrosclair8733: Eccellent and important point!
God bless you guys!!
Great work brothers keep it up . My God be glorified in who he really is
Great Bible logic James , God creates us and shows his love by not immediately destroying us.😮
I’m to the point that Calvinism messed me up so badly that I’m not sure if I’m saved or if God loves me or not. Messed up ain’t it. I’m not one now thankfully but it’s like I have zero understanding now in anything. Please pray for me
That's really sad brother. I suggest watching Dr Flowers, Mike winger, Dr Michael brown. Read the bible with the lenses of Calvinism off
Brother, I was there 35- 30years ago! I had to get away from reading the Bible for three months because all I saw was what Calvinism said!
Listen to Jacob Prasch! There’s others out there. God, led me to a church 30 years ago that helped me get away from it.!
This should help :
God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9!
God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined!
Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1!
Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright !
So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says !
Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue.
So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8!
But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“!
Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try!
Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
It’s also part of working your salvation out with fear and trembling. You’re figuring it out so you’re at a standpoint of that. Philippians 2:12-13
We all go through trials, and this is a trial for you just read my first message about the 42 youths getting mauled by the two Bears and the reason why that happened !
Acts 14:22 we must go through many hardships to inherit the kingdom of God !
Psalm 126 :5 They that sow in tears shall reap in joy.
6 He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him.
God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him, and you’ll get rewards for coming out of Calvinism !
Something to bear in mind. God's love is about who He is. It's not about how worthy we are. God loves you because it is His character to love you. It has never been about your performance. Read the whole prodigal son story. The father was longing for the son's return before the son came to his senses.
I feel you brother.
I have been coming to the conclusion lately that Calvinism is a cult on par with the Jehovah's Witnesses. I noticed that those who are dogmatic Calvinists would condemn me to hell and call me a heretic and basically act without any love. How can a true Christian be so mean? I think that Calvinism attracts people who have intellectual pride and that converts into spiritual pride. People with spiritual pride are unconverted sinners. The first thing that true conversion does is it destroys human pride. The Calvinists have the doctrine of the deity of Christ which the Watchtower does not but at least the Watchtower does not blaspheme God like the Calvinists do with their doctrines of determinism and sovereignty, etc.
I think the popular intellectuals (JM, RC, etc) have met a need for serious, deep-thinking Christians, so people can end up listening more to the teachers than searching the Scriptures themselves.
Most compatibalists don’t understand compatibalism.
BIAS:
Understand the following, Leighton:
Bias is not favoring a particular belief or position. Prejudice, or bias, is holding a belief without any foundation of knowledge.
For example, I was mugged once by a Black man and formed the belief that, "Black's are dangerous." That is bias.
If you hold a belief (Provisionism) that is supported by scripture evidence, that is not "bias."
One could be wrong, lacking sufficient evidence, but it is NOT bias.
How could people as smart as Piper and Sproul not be purposely dishonest about what the Bible really teaches?
Or so humble to let the Bible speak and not try and mold God to confirm to man’s image.
There is too much ego involved when you have spent your whole life preaching Calvinism and have written multiple books. I doubt someone like that would ever change their views
Simple answer, they’re WOLVES!
@@johndisalvo6283 I think you misunderstood my question. I didn't ask how they could be purposely dishonest, but how could they not be.
@@johndisalvo6283" Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Wolves as in false prophets under the wrath of God?
5:36 group think, surrenderimg sense making. Amen to this.
"Dont ignore the Spirit". Amen.
Wow at-17:21 is the first time I heard other learned men say that besides Dr. Heiser!
Jason (and Warren) add so much to your discussion. Love hearing their thoughts! Keep encouraging them to interrupt you 😂
Nothing in the Calvinist system is observable in reality. That's what lures people to believe they are exercising great faith in the unknown, but that's also what eventually makes people leave. The denial of reality is eastern mysticism.
Good point
I have a theology degree and also 30 years plus walking with the Lord, have been through a few different denominations and my motto is “ neither a Calvinist nor an Arminianist be. Rather be a steadfast humble follower of Yeshua who studies the word so that I can keep His commands.” I also see how 1500 years of Greek worldview, coupled with replacement theology has impacted upon the Word of God and helped give rise to many wrong doctrines. So many western Christians have become so Hellenised that they cannot see the contextual Hebrewness of God’s precious and amazing word
Calvinism reminds me of Mormonism (pre 1978) when they said in the preexistence there where some valiant and some not, therefore some have a chance at the highest heaven and some do not.
Cain killed Abel because he assumed that God was partial, and simply chose to love Abel more. Then Lamech killed two men, thinking that he was elect to do so without reprisal, because he was Cain's son. Calvinism is not that complicated. Its just Satanism, in Christianese.
Good points and Calvinism is the same as jihad in Islam, because they both believe in Inshallah- Gods perfect will to the point of using violence! REF- Calvins Geneva
some weeks ago I compared Calvins god to Allah. I wasn't too far removed. @@jjphank
Satanism as you have a devil in your profile pic 😅
No, Cain killed Abel because Abel was blessed by God for his obedience.
Cain expected that his substandard offering should be accepted by God.
Abel loved God.
Cain loved himself.
@@sheilasmith7779When you start a comment with "no," you are suggesting that the other person is wrong. Please consider the the following:
Why did God say to Cain, "If you do well, would you not be accepted?" He wasn't talking about his offering being accepted, but him being accepted. In other words, God was confronting the lie that Satan was speaking to Satan, that God simply loved Abel more then him. This is why God said, "sin is crouching at your door." If Cain had the humility to ask, God would have explained that he was not rejecting him, but his offering, because it was reflective of his works, rather than what God had done, like Abel's offering.
This is the passage James is alluding to when he says, "the scripture says...the spirit that dwells among us lusts toward envy"
It is unfortunately translated poorly, but he is alluding to the origin of envy, which leads to murder, having its beginning with Cain.
There is nothing in the passage to suggest that Abel was being obedient to anything, since God did not order sacrifices beforehand. Cain offered a sacrifice first, then Abel offered afterward. It says nothing about obedience, but only that Abel offered a "more excellent sacrifice" (Heb 11:4)
Again, if Cain had the humility to ask God why he did not accept his sacrifice, it was because his sacrifice represented his works, based on Adam's curse, while Abel's represented God's work of covering Adam and Eve, a memorial of what God had done.
The moral of the story is that God accounts righteousness when we acknowledge his righteousness, and not when we show off our works. This is why John says, "his works were evile, but his brother's righteous." (1 John 12:3).
Please try to be a little less quick to offer correction to men, without understanding the basis of their reasoning. It is not becoming of a woman of God.
Tedious is the word for it. They would deny the Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox the right to have a magisterium figure out everything for everyone else. But without a Calvinist magisterium, no one would ever come up with their fatalism, which is more fatalistic than the eastern fatalistic religions and philosophies.
2 year old Christian unknowingly looking through Calvinist lenses until about 3 Biblical scholars I listen to disagreed vehemently with Calvinism. I researched TULIP, and I listened to debates, and now I've passed the tipping point. I'm struggling now about where to go from here.
Have you found direction? May the Lord lead you. Do you have a church?
I’m writing out the book of Romans & listing all the doctrines I see there. It’s really helpful.
This 66 yr old has learned a lot from you and am even considering taking courses at Trinity. I am one of those that has believed that you have been too cordial towards the Calvinist. In weighing your reasoning carefully, I will have to agree that your approach is justified in general but not in the particulars. The sheep need your kindness and pastoral heart. Men like James White, John MacArthur and yes even those that still speak from the grave like R.C. Sproul and Johnathan Edwards. are not sheep but Shepherds leading the sheep astray, Paul used harsh words for such men that troubled the flock and so did Jesus. If Calvinism is not "another gospel" there is no such thing. John MacArthur is my elder in years and knowledge but not in matters of the faith and I would rebuke him to his face. These men with their large platforms are destroying the flock and need to be treated accordingly.
Was on a chat site and found Calvinists to be very argumentative. Is this true for all of them?
Yes . Both sides can be just as argumentative and for some Christians on both sides all they have in their toolbox is a hammer.
There's no fruit of the Spirit (which Spirit is never a part of their conversation), because no one doing works for salvation gets sealed by the holy Spirit.
Romans 11:6 GNT
His choice is based on his grace, not on what they have done. For if God's choice were based on what people do, then his grace would not be real grace.
@@SSNBN777
That’s what I thought too.
@@SSNBN777 so God does not wait for a man to decide,but rather God decides ,so salvation is an act ,not a thing , God brings (delivers)a dead man to life. The Spirit of God now dwells in him bodily,like it did in Adam before he became spiritually dead. The dead man cannot reject God bringing him to life ,because he simply can’t he’s dead .
O my gosh. Im in the UK and after being horrified and bewildered by what our pastor is teaching, and the tone in which he is preaching it, after googling his old college I think it is Calvinism. Listening to videos like this it comes across as a truly crazy making rabbit hole of eternal complicated circular arguments about things we will never know the answer to anyway and cheerfully discussing peoples eternal damnation.... when we could be concentrating on helping those in our community and the world who need our help and being more loving and kind! I think even if you have left Cakvinism... Stop discussing it, get out and save your sanity!
I had a awe inspiring thought that I got from a messianic Rabbi......When Christ comes back is he gonna say OK let me get all my calvanists let, let me get the Roman catholics? No he is gonna say
"I AM COMING FOR MY BRIDE!"
James White at 1:44 mark - "I don't know who the elect are , and neither does anybody else in this life..."
When Paul says "Believe on that Lord Jesus Christ and THOU shalt be saved," the use of the pronoun, thou, indicates that in Paul's mind there is hope for the Philippian jailer, that there is a good reason for the Philippian jailer to not run himself through with the sword because Paul has good news FOR HIM and it could not be more personal.
Were Paul operating at that time under the narrative of "I don't know who the elect are" then Paul's message to the jailer could have been worded in a more honest way - "If you happen to be elect, you will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as a consequence of being born again."
Good relationships with Calvinists is great… but I find that calvinist pastors tend to be rigid and legalistic and (unlike Paul and the boreans)not open to being challenged.
@@RenardGarzaro You are right. Grace has no relationship to legalism. You are also right about noticing that the problem boils down to definitions. It is hard to have a productive conversation when the same words have different, even opposite, meanings.
As a side note, there is frequently a high level of contempt loaded in discussions with those who call themselves reformed.
I found out a Baptist church I started attending was at least partly Calvinist. Idk if I'll keep attending, I'm looking out for a good church home.
Don't give up the search.
Me too. I had to leave.
1:48:36 I cannot state enough just how much I detest that idea.
I don’t see anywhere in Scripture that God is glorified by his condemnation of certain people from eternity. When our children, whom we love, do something wrong, do we instantly hate and reject them, or do we seek reconciliation because we love them? God is called the Father for a reason, because his main characteristic IS love, then his judgements are based on that love, and always for a reason, not arbitrarily.
I've always had a question about God knowing that those people are going to die in God's wrath. Why does God create them?
Exactly right. God is already maximally glorious within himself, he doesn’t need more glory from showing his wrath by creating people fo he’ll!@@user-hk2fr3mc9d
Take a look at the video titled "John MacArthur Contradicts Calvinism | Dr. Leighton Flowers | Soteriology 101."
If there’s TULIP for Calvinism, what is for Provisionism?
One of the main ways that God gets the glory in a terrible sin and crime like a rape, is by being thoroughly against it! By hating it, and by judging it! And by being throughly _sincere_ in His hatred of that sin, and all the other sins. Gods heart is righteous and pure; He IS the truth; He is love. We forget this basic truth, acting like God's righteousness is small potatoes for the neophytes, who arent theologically sophisticated enough to realize that it ain't necessarity so. This attitude screams that they're listening to another spirit! You have to ignore a lot of inspired scripture to put a theology which denies Gods nature abd character before it. But we are meant to trust the person of God for being righteous, true, love, merciful, and to be like Jesus demonstrared in His life on earth.
And a rape, or other heinous sin, is not "meaningless", unless you mean by that something like "meaninglessly cruelty", etc. God allowed it to take place, but at the same time, He can be trusted to mean it when He says that He hates it, and there is reason to trust Him. He didn't want it; He didn't tempt them to do it, says the Bible. His allowing it to happen has to be meaningful, too. But it's an abomination to say that He wanted the sin and made it happen, all the better to call it "meaningful", in what fun-house, morally upside-down universe? If that was true, the "meaning" God would be attaching to it is diabolical. And we know our God is not diabolical.
Amen!!!
Preach it, sister!
1:05-ish. Dr. Flowers sharing why he doesn’t call out Calvinists as heretics and suggests those who want to do that make their own YT channel.
Makes me think of two specific guys on Jordan & Jason’s YT channels that often comment calling us Self-worshippers and saying free = ignorance. They should start their own channels.
Non- Calvinists are living rent-free in their heads and maybe that would help them. 🤓
1:27 what a snarky ad hominem remark against Jason! “If a serious person…”
1:35:40 regarding babies Dr Flowers makes an interesting comment about how most of the babies Calvinists are fighting for are actually hated by God. John Calvin said “Although we must recollect that God would never have suffered any infants to be destroyed except those which the Lord had already reprobated and condemned to eternal death.” - John Calvin, Commentary on Deuteronomy, 13:15.
We will not be judged over our beliefs. It is our behavior that really matters.
What a person believes or does not believe determines a persons eternal location. How that person lives will determine the degree or level of their eternal experience.
@@grizz4489wow, beautifully put.
@grizz4489 No, sir. Whatever a man believes, he will live accordingly. And if it was not a Christian life, he will not be facing heaven.
@@sheilasmith7779 I do not agree with your comment "Whatever a man believes he will live accordingly ." So please allow me to ask you this. Do you ever sin against God ?
@grizz4489 I am not speaking of religious beliefs but the everyday sinful beliefs about others we hold and act upon.
It's the reason repentance is a condition of salvation.
Read comments from Cheistians to other Christians online, and you will understand what I am saying. The conduct is appalling, and a horrible example to non christians.
That's my point.
Romans 5
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the UNGODLY. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Exactly 👍 ❤
The law you can't do and also the gospel so better hope you were picked! Classic!!
I don't know! Paul did outright call people false teachers, and said let them be accursed who preach false Gospels, but I think he was referring to people who were doing this deliberately, rather than people who were mislead or misunderstanding the scripture. There's a difference between misunderstanding the scripture, and getting things wrong, as opposed to be a false prophet who deliberately perverts the Gospel. Loads of Christians have Calvinist leanings, and later God corrects then if they are genuine believers who have accepted Christ saviour. I believe that God always corrects his own children who have misunderstood his word in a warped way.
God’s love/hate is something humans cannot fathom.
Concerning God creating the reprobate, this is what I've heard from Calvinists: "God desires to show forth ALL His attributes, and one attribute is His wrath; so it glorifies God when He vents His wrath upon these reprobates persons." Two things are true of God's essential nature: He is holy and He is love. All other "things" are attributes of God which stem from His holiness and His is love. For many years I pondered over God's holiness and His love and this is where I came to: What God holiness demanded, His love provided." God's "desire" is not to create reprobate people so He can vent His wrath upon them, but to provide for them a "way" that takes it off the table. God is still holy and just, but in His love He provided for us by sending His Son.
Also, on "emotionalism." We are to love God with our minds. The word mind there means to think through a thing. When someone drills down the Calvinistic philosophy with their minds the Calvinist claims, "you're being too emotional" rather than see that it is actually taking the time to drill down into the philosophy and see and understand where it ultimately leads. It is not being "emotional." It being "real." It is the ultimate end of believing in theistic determinism and has nothing to do with being emotional. Rather than the Calvinist asking, "is this true?" they throw out a blanket called "emotionalism" and reject what is being said. Calvinists please start asking, "Is this true".
What God’s holiness demanded, His love provided. Amen sister! For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son…
At 1:49:00 - When he says, "It makes no sense," you have to understand the underpinning idea of immutability and impassibility, and how it leads to the Calvinist interpretation of God's "glory." His glory is the necessary manifestation of both his love and wrath, because he is both things equally and unchangeably. It makes sense if you understand that they worship a different God, who alone is just to be angry and hate without a cause.
2 thoughts:
1. James White calls Provisionism a belief in "peanut butter grace". Wouldn't Calvinism also believe in "peanut butter grace", except it's crunchy peanut butter instead of smooth peanut butter? Or better yet, the peanut butter stays in the jar, and only the bread that was put in the jar before the jar was sealed ever gets any peanut butter on it. It's an interesting way to mock his opponents, but it doesn't do anything to advance his argument. At all. Just makes him look petty.
2. Many verses talk about people who will be blessed if... (John 13:17, James 1:25, Proverbs 3:18, etc)
Calvinism takes these and has to flip them on their heads:
- Now that you have been blessed since the beginning, you know these things and will do them.
- Now that you have been blessed in what you do since the beginning, and have looked intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, you will continue in it, not forgetting what you heard but doing it.
- Now that you have been blessed since the beginning, you will take hold of wisdom, and she will be a tree of life to you.
James White: "Oh, so you're saying the governor is offering peanut butter clemency to the inmates? How silly! Ha, ha, ha! Peanut butter!"
Q: Why does a provisionist believe in peanut butter grace?
A: Because it is the only way out of the jam that Calvinism got him into.
Feel free to use this in debate with Dr. White if he brings up that analogy.
;)
I had so many other bad theological conclusions to unlearn on my plate; I am thankful that Calvinism was not one of them....
The teaching of Jesus is not about the sacrifice of his blood and flesh, the power of crucifix, amd holy water but he want us to turn to him personally to guide our souls to live a holy life full of love!
Once again Leighton,
You get an A for explaining the falsehoods of Calvinism,
however, an F for not calling it another gospel.
You claim to error on the side of love,
but, when the truth of God’s Word is compromised,
you continue (and your guest) to mention those who
teach another gospel as friends and brothers in Christ.
This in itself is confusing and sending the wrong message
to those who see Calvinism as a somewhat viable teaching
in the body of Christ.
A true story of love and rebuke.
I had left one particular church for shall we say, unhealthy spiritual reasons and beliefs and
Over a short period of time, started attending another church, even filling in for one of the pastor’s, teaching their class when out of town.
After a series of events, I was alerted to the “ongoings” that were happening at the church
I had earlier left.
One of those being an incident in the church where one of the ”single” church workers involved in ministry made advances towards another man’s wife, who happened to be the church secretary, and Sunday school teacher, and was complicit in welcoming the advances of the minister.
The secretary (as many do) always had the ear of the head leadership in the church, and made known to them how unhappily married she was to her husband.
Of course, without confirming with the husband all they were hearing, they believed her, and with great approval led her to believe that she could continue outside relations with this other man if she moved towards separation.
In the course of less than a year, the surface relationship continued and the head leadership of the church ending up ordaining the church worker into fulltime ministry knowing that he was involved with another man’s wife.
After ordination the relationship had become full-blown to the point where the secretary had seperated from her husband, ended up divorcing him and married the new ordained minister a year later.
What started out as several meetings with the head pastor out of love and concern, eventually turned into God having me rebuke the head pastor, eventually telling him that God did not recognize Him as a minister, nor the church as a fellowship for being complicit in adultery while sweeping the matter under the rug.
After several months had past, I learned the church leadership repented and fired the minister in question.
The two involved in adultery are still married and are involved in another church in leadership.
What started out in love and concern was led to a stern rebuke and eventual repentance.
I have to say, you and your guest as stated in this video as to salvation having some relevance with Calvinism, is demonic, and that when Jesus stated, “if I be lifted up, I will draw all men” is not a mystery as implied in this video.
You continue to treat Calvinism as a secondary issue, loving your so-called brothers in Christ to spiritual death by not treating it as another gospel.
Calvinism is one of the worst invaders of the Christian church much like the batting of the eye when it comes to adultery in the church.
God’s love is not love when rebuke is left out of the message.
You are a great example of why the “church” has lost its backbone, and why the word
“love” has been missed used in the doctrines of church behavior and teaching.
The apostle Paul if confronted with this teaching, would have deemed it as coming from the father of lies,
he would have exercised it out of the church.
Tit 1:12-14 One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth.
Tit 2:11-15 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works. Declare these things; exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no one disregard you.
Seems to me, the ones preaching a false gospel are the ones who take the power from Christ's atonement and then give that power to a sinful person. It's not the Calvinists who do that.
@@maxmustermann1206 Christ atonement was for the whole world my friend, you don't have to give it to anyone.
@@maxmustermann1206, "take the power from Christ's atonement and then give that power to a sinful person" What does that even mean?
It’s important to expose the false doctrine of determinism, because what calvinism teaches, makes apologetics/evangelism unnecessary.
In Jude, we're told that even the Archangel Michael "would not speak a slanderous word against the devil, but said, "The Lord Rebuke You.'" Yet James White has no problem speaking slander against his brothers in Christ, people whom God, according to White, determined to believe the way they do.
I have a feeling there will be a lot of people who need your ministries. We just left a former traditionalist church because it's been infiltrated by 2 Calvinist pastors. We left when we saw the signs. We told people but they cannot see it on r do not want to spend time figuring it all out or they don't want to be slammed with a charge of "disunity'. We have to really look hard to find a church that is not leaning Calvinist. Checked out 9 marks and Gospel Coalition lists as well as point blank asked the pastor. The ones who give you a wishy washy answer,.lean that way but are not telling their congregations. We finally found one that said definite "no!". Our old pastor when challenged said he would rather be called a reformed Baptist 😂 I'm sure some of the ignorant ones said "see, they're wrong, he's still a Baptist". My old congregation will find themselves in a while in need of either bending or leaving. We left the church after being there for 25 years and being very involved. Stealth calvinism takeover of formerly non-Calvinist churches is a "thing". There will be big fallout some day when the congregants really follow out what it all means. Calvinism really does change the nature of God
That sounds really painful
1:24:40 there's that one viral clip of a female judge recognizing an old childhood friend she's sentencing. I saw a recent update he turned his life around after getting out of prison.
I lead a church in South Africa. I have never been a Calvinist, but I have been in Calvinist churches before where I found Calvinism is not emphasised. Members don’t really know that there is Calvinism going on. Calvinist teachers are attractive because they are well educated. It seems they are very few non Calvinist but Bible based leaders and local churches.
6:33
A difficult thing - we need to really study both sides.
This applies to hell - eternal conscious torment or conditional immortality.
But hell has become a sort of shibboleth.
Ironically, chris date, the calvinist has a lot of good info. As does Edward fudge.
Also when they talk about the Old Testament, God made away for a mixed multitude. The mixed multitude came out of I Egypt with Israel. Jonah went to Nineveh. Sodom and Gommorah would have been spared if there were righteous people there. God loved more than just Israel in the Old Testament.
That's right.
Psalm 66:16 KJV
*_Come and hear, all ye that fear God,_* and I will declare what he hath done for my soul.
Acts 13:26 NASB95
"Brethren, sons of Abraham's family, *_and those among you who fear God,_* to us the message of this salvation has been sent.
Kevin at BTF is going to far in the opposite extreme. He teaches that the teaching offices of the church, mentioned in Ephesians 4, were meant to cease. It's like a hyper-dispensationalist, hyper-cessationism. People need to read the whole counsel of the word.
Do you have a link to his claim about offices of the church?
He's also going quite far in the _departing from the Bible_ direction, too. He doesn't want to be "held back" from wherever his ruminations take him. I hope for him that he wakes up.
They will be "debating" this stuff until Christ returns. There are ditches on both sides of the debate. Its like the "free grace" vs "lordship" debate or the God sovereignty vs freewill debate. The truth it appears, and I dare to say it on this channel, leans 75% towards the doctrines of grace/calvinism without having to pick a side and plant a flag on either side of isms or ists. The limited atonement or double predestination non-sense is nothing more than philosophy of man. In all my study, in regards to soteriology, God chooses AND man chooses, God doesn't choose and man doesn't choose. Yet God doesn't just conform to mans choice. I can't fully understand that this side of eternity. I'm just thankful He had mercy on me.
I use to listen to him ( BTF ) until i listened to his video about free grace theology and his comments and bias toward (GES) totally turned me off. He along with the others in that video completely misrepresented the views of free grace theology and GES. All the comments sounded so arrogant . I have not and will not listen to his videos anymore. Aside from all of that he has just become wayyy out there in my opinion.
@@grizz4489GES teaches that faith is just an intellectual assent to facts. It's false doctrine. Bob wilkin said if you believe that George Washington was the first president of the United States, then you know what it means to have biblical faith. This guy has no idea what biblical faith is these are all false teachers beware of Grace Evangelical society. Faith is trusting Jesus, it is not simply just acknowledging his existence
I had to move to a john macarthur church in my locality through covid. There were no other churches local that would have love for "dissenters". So i find myself at a church i don't completely agree with because others would not accept me and my family because we did not fall in lock step with needles , masks and lies.
Apokatastasis! 1Timothy 4:10
All means ALL.🌿🌲🌿
In light of these words; "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.", I suggest one be very careful that one's basic conception is of an eminently lovable God. If He's not really all that lovable, you might want to reconsider your basic concepts of Him, what is going on, and what the Book is telling us about Him.
How does one renounce Calvinism and yet retain OSAS, sinner saved by grace( Gnosticism at its finest), born a sinner?
I'm not sure. If you take the power from Christ's atonement on the cross and give the saving power to a sinful person, how will that sinner keep from losing his salvation? But if it's God alone who saves (Ps 3:8, Rev 7:10-12), then he can keep them (Eph 1:13-14)
To a sinful creature? Are you not supposed to be a new creature… with a new heart? And the mind of Christ…. With the armor of God ? Able to withstand the dart?
Has not God made a way to escape every temptation? And your still a sinful raggedy Ol worm?
This is the very first issue of Calvinism! The T ( tulip) … the total depravity of man!
I suggest a study of Ezekiel 18 . This disproves not only “ born sinner” but also OSAS ( vs 24)
@@dougtibbetts857
All of what you said happens when Christ saves you, not before. Christ saves sinners; Sinners do not save themselves.
"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost." (Luke 19:10)
"The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost." (1 Timothy 1:15)
Yes… but that has nothing to do with anything I spoke of. Christ provided the atonement but we must accept it and ( red letters) deny ourselves ( quit sinning), pick up our cross, and follow Him( biblical faith which is works)
We must also finish the race( don’t quit), and if( not when) we sin we must call upon our advocate Christ
I like how open-mindedness is reserved only for those who are convinced. To rebuttal or have any hesitation to the other side's presentation is being close-minded.
From Matthew 7:22-23 "On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’"
Assuming you're reading this literally, if i were to cast out a demon and do mighty works in His name and witnessed with my two eyes that I did indeed do such things (the text does not indicate otherwise), then why would I doubt I'm wrong, especially when Scripture instructs me to not be tossed to and fro by every wave of doctrine? If by this logic I'm convinced I'm right, then what logic can the Arminian offer to save me? If I'm wrong, and it was Scripture that convinced me otherwise, then Scripture or God is of no help. The Arminian's argument is my only hope.
What is the glow behind James all about ? I have seen it before , just wondering if anyone knows why he’s doing that.
Does anyone have a link to the Al Mohler/John Piper panel discussion on the five rises/falls of Calvinism mentioned in the video?
The whole, you can’t respond when you are dead never made sense to me. Lazarus was dead and heard and responded. Ezekiel and the dry bones heard and responded. The widow of Nains son heard and responded. Jarius’ daughter heard and responded. If never got that argument.
Lazarus WAS dead - until Someone MADE him alive, whereby he could respond to Christ's command. Doubtful that Lazarus was able to "come forth" until he was GIVEN life.
The narrow way is only narrow because Jesus is the only way to Heaven. He is the only door. It's not that it's hard to be saved, rather it's Jesus is the only way, and so people get deceived by pluralism.
I would probably not attend a Reformed congregation where the TULIP acrostic was taught from the pulpit, but I would avoid any pastor that said God can't absolutely save any person that he wants to save, or that God lacks the means to fully save any sinner. I believe in monergism - that salvation is totally the work of God. TULIP was first used in 1905 and its useful for what it is, but I avoid congregations that dwell on anything but Bible expository teaching when they feel they need to make the Bible seem humanly fair or egalitarian.
I love the content and message you provide for the body of Christ. Keep up the great work. 🙏🏼💟✝️
While I agree we must do things in love, love is demonstrated in various ways. A love for truth means we correct what is false, and sometimes that means with open rebuke:
“Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.”
Galatians 2:11-13 NKJV
““Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.”
Matthew 12:33-34 NKJV
Was Jesus or Apostle Paul not showing love when rebuking or correcting others?
Let’s not conflate passivity with love. There is a time to be gentle and a time to be stern. Speaking softly can be done in love and so can a hard reprimand.
Wisdom to discern which is needed is key.
Jesus spoke softly to sheep without a shepherd and spoke harsh to the religious hypocrites.
Let’s try to not paint over Jesus or the apostles, with a velvet brush as if there’s no room for degree of delivery all done in love. 🙏🏼💟✝️
I don't agree with you Leighton in the way we should treat this matter of calvinism. You know the scripture better than me, you know the verse very well, if anyone preaches another gospel let it be anathema, and calvinism is clearly, 100% a different gospel. Salvation by sovereign decree, not salvation by faith.
By calling calvinists your brothers and sisters and recognizing them as members of the body of Christ I think you are diluting your own message. Why preach against calvinism for 15 years if you think they are all saved? Why do you do this? Just because you like your form of christianity more than theirs? I thank you and God for guiding people out of calvinism, but I think a more serious and straightforward approach is needed for better results. You are not going to convince the prideful calvinists like James White with kind words and calling them your brothers and sisters. We need to make them know they are following a false gospel and that there is no salvation in what they believe, in fact, their view of God is an insult to his holiness. We can't call them brothers and sisters, in the end you are giving them a license to keep following their heresy without rebuke.
John Wesley WAS NOT passive in his crusade against Calvinist. He did, however, walk in Christian love toward Calvinist.
When they talk about love, How does the notion that actions should be motivated by love influence discussions, especially when disagreements arise?
Dont the pushback in the negative often come as a result of personal attacks or shifting the goalposts (logical fallacies)?
8:20 Leighton I think you’re making this a little complicated. All you’re saying is you’re a Christian. You’re just describing Christianity. So you’re a Christian, that’s it 👍🏻
Along the lines of regeneration preceding faith, I like to ask people:
1. Is union with Christ = salvation?
2. Does union with Christ result from the Gospel or not?
Eternal life comes through the conduit of faith in Christ.
@@grizz4489 and would you agree this occurs in response to the gospel message?
The gift of eternal life comes through the conduit of faith in Christ, upon hearing the good news of the message of life.
@@RenardGarzaro a decision is not what is required. Faith in Christ is what is required. Faith in Christ is the conduit by which divine life comes.
What about the reformed teaching of family first.
It's funny how the most deterministic people are the most angry, when their own belief says that everyone else's behavior and thoughts are also determined and can't be helped. Massive cognitive dissonance!
“Before you graduate from 101 you have to realize that the good news is for anybody and that anyone can be saved and that’s the foundation for the rest of our soteriological discussions.”
Forget “graduating” from 101 you haven’t even ENTERED 101 if someone doesn’t even believe this. This **IS** Christianity, so if one does not believe it they do not believe Christianity. How can one say they are a Christian if they do not believe Christianity?
@@RenardGarzaro my goodness Jesus speaking in parables and being more “cryptic” was a deliberate choice for a TEMPORARY TIME in His earthly ministry intentionally done to ensure the cross would take place.
Jesus says about *AFTER THE RESURRECTION:*
”These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will *no longer* speak to you in figurative language, *but I will tell you plainly about the Father.“*
John 16:25
@@RenardGarzaro furthermore after the resurrection the apostles were to always speak plainly and use clear language and not conceal anything
Remember God wants everyone to be saved and come to repentance.
He wants none to perish.
@@RenardGarzaro everyone is drawn by God but not everyone listens to the drawing
This is just the gospel in Christianity. I don’t know what gospel you’re believing in but it’s certainly not a good news message for the whole world….