Tube vs Modeling Amps - 5 reasons to sell your tube guitar amplifier, and 5 reasons to keep it
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- Опубліковано 26 жов 2020
- It's one of those raging debates in the guitar world: Do tube amps have better tone, looks, and that "it" factor? Or have modeling amps caught up?
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A huge advantage for me with the gtx100 is not having to deal with powering pedals and the problems that brings!
Agree. Pedals are good, and many people love love them, but I enjoy the simplicity of turning on my amp and having stereo delay, reverb, and more ready to go🤙
My least favorite part of every sound check experience was sheepishly asking sound guy if he had an extension cord for my pedal board. Now that I have the GTX100 I don’t have to worry about it anymore!
Im thinking of getting a gtx50, i have a pretty nice pedalboard so i cant use my pedals with the gtx?
@@sBinotto-od6noI think the point being made is that you wouldn't need to. You can still use them if you want, but much of what you might have on a pedal board is built in to modeling amps.
Great video. I have owned several Fender tube amps and love the tone on all. I also had a Mesa boogie. The Mesa was also nice but I prefer the Fender tone. The weight of the amps combined with a couple of back surgeries made me use a Blues junior as my go to gig amp.I always kept a Fender FM 65 in the car in case the tubes burned out. I had to use the back up a couple of times.
I now own two modeling amps. I own a Fender GTX 50 with the optional pedal. I find that the Blues junior model on it sounds great with a little tweaking plus I have 189 other options included. It is extremely light and I used it at a recent gig. Everyone seemed to enjoy it. I also have a Boss Katana 2 50 watt. Again a light amp with great versatility. I love the three power options and that I can use it for Acoustic electric or electric guitar. It works well for both. I also saved 4 presets on it and use a footswitch to use the 4 presets. In closing I agree that there is something special about a tube amp but for around 700 dollars you can buy a Fender GTX and Boss Katana with footswitch.
With those two amps you can get almost any sound you want. Whatever you choose enjoy playing your guitar. We are lucky to enjoy such an amazing hobby or job if you are good enough and lucky enough to earn a living doing what you love.
Give me a 20lbs digital Blues Deluxe or a 57 deluxe - with attenuators, D.I. and the lacquered tweed looks - and I'll be all digital.
When I emailed Fender about future Tonemaster amps, they replied they have received quite a few requests for some Tweed versions. I'd be happy with a Tonemaster Tweed Deluxe or a Tonemaster Tweed Bassman. I'd be tempted to sell some gear to get one of them.
@@brandonlesko3126
Everyone seems to asking for Tweed Tonemasters. Maybe it will happen.
I mean a tweed bassman would be awesome, their tonemaster super sounded good enough that I’d consider it and I’m kind of a tube purist.
Not necessarily because digital = bad, far from it. I have digital effects, and I’ve played many digital amps I enjoy. Just the sound at the end of the day if it excites me more with one or another piece of gear I’ll pick my initial gut reaction.
Dig the vid! In my experience as someone who's played through both tube and modeling, tone is actually second place to response and feel of the notes being played. The tone (with proper tweaking) can come awfully close in nature or at the very least comparable in quality if that makes sense. However the response from the attack of the note, the way it feels when played and heard simultaneously, and that "something" that's hard to label, is where the real difference stands out and that's something that at least in my experience is something far more noticeable to the guitar players themselves than anyone listening as it is the connection between them, the note, and the sound that follows rather than merely the tone of the note itself.
Tube Amp Modeling GTX 100 is worth it, the variety of sounds, The tube tone quality and ease of use in studio and I still own tube amps
I love my Fender Mustang GTX 50. For a home player, it’s everything I need and more. So much fun.
Great stuff. I feel the same way. 😎🎸
How it sound with pedals?
So many built-in effects that I haven’t bothered with pedals yet
@@jbourke33 I would like to trying the amps emulate. I have some nice pedals and a line6 M9. That's why I ask
Great video. I feel modelling amps don’t quite give an equivalent tone a tube amp, however, they have gotten super close. I liked your analogy, I feel like I can only really tell the difference between the two back to back, but both sound great now so I would always recommend a modelling amp to a beginner. They give beginners more than enough tools to experiment with and figure out which types of amps and gear they like best, so if they ever wanna assemble their dream rig they have a solid idea what kinda stuff what they’re looking for. Most tell you exactly which pedal or amp it’s based off, so it’s interesting to compare the modelling tones vs the real tones online and other similar products. I started with a fender mustang modelling and it helped me learn the tonal differences between the fender, vox, Marshall and Mesa amps and eventually upgraded to a 25W JCM tube amp
I agree as far as tone, bit I find it interesting because after years of playing (primarily using tube amps) I wound up finding and choosing the opposite route. After playing through the GTX 100, I found that it was definitely what I wanted to get when I'm able. While the tone might not be quite there, after tweaking I was very impressed by what it was able to achieve. Plus with all of the additional features combined with how lightweight it was, there simply was no contest in the end. I found it to be quite suitable for the intermediate and advanced players alike. Absolutely a great beginner amp as well, but it does hold up for those of us with more experience. I'm not knocking tube amps by any means. Like I said earlier, I spent decades playing through them. From Crate Vintage Series to Fender Hot Rod Deville 4x10"s, to Marshalls and Mesas, etc just to name a few. I love tube tones.
I think the biggest drawback with modeling though honestly isn't really the difference in the tone itself but the response and feel of each note. That said, I'm still sold as the perks of the modeling amp outweigh the perks of the tube for me these days.
Modelling is awesome. I use it frequently.
Love the tones. Love the sounds. Love it in a mix.
But. They are NOWHERE close to the in person FEEL of a tube amp. It's not even a debate. The responsiveness and feel of a tube amp has not been accurately modelled yet.
They've "come a long way"....well , they got a longer way to go and I can't wait.
The Electric Piano has been nailed. For years. They are amazing and have been amazing for a long time.
There is still a difference between the real thing and the thing that is “modeling” the real thing. One is the real deal, the other is a close facsimile.
These “modeling” amps are attempting to copy the real deal. It’s never going to be the same.
I went to the store yesterday to try the new stuff. It sounds almost the same……but it does not feel the same at all because it’s fake.
There is a reason people still buy real pianos. They might not be as convenient. But it’s still better.
The audience probably doesn't understand the tone difference but the player him/herself can feel the valve compression and how a valve amp reacts to his/her picking. I think this is one of the reasons that many people still listen to those classic songs and records. There is no interaction between guitar player and a modelling system like in real amps. I'm not sure about it but i think if you play with digital modelling for a long time your brain and your hands will learn that no matter how you touch the strings it's always going to sound the same.
Great video! I am one of those tube amp customers that had constant problems with tubes being faulty or blowing out. Two weeks ago, my band was about to play our first gig, and my hot rod deville blew a tube. Ended up using my 10W line 6 practice amp because that was the only thing I had available. Today, I tried looking for decently sized tube amps and then discovered what these modeling amps offer at a fraction of the cost. This video really convinced me. Going to order a gtx 100 this week
Man....you hit the nail on "the drinking crowd can't hear the difference" ..... there were times in my band days (years ago) that I know we sounded so bad I almost felt like walking off.....then the applause just blew us away. Go figure. Us players know. We may be the only ones that cud tell. I'm still messing around with tone stuff. Pedals, amp presets, its all keeping me up late at night. Your spot on for swinging both ways. Tubes....models....pedals....presets.....I cant find the end of it.....🤪
Thanks Steve.....
Too funny! Great story. And even when people aren’t drinking, non-musicians think most anything is amazing. I showed how a simple looper works to a half dozen family once and hit several seriously wrong notes, then mentioned that at the end, and they said they didn’t hear them 😎
Sure, the drinking crowd can’t, but I sure as fuck can. Just like when I’m working my day job in construction, the home owners usually can’t tell that the original builders that slapped the development together in a couple days using illegal labor did a shit job, but I can and I make my work look fantastic. FOR MYSELF, MY PRIDE, MY STANDARDS. That’s what matters. Not the drunk idiots, or clueless homeowners.
Tube Amps cost more sure, but you only have to buy the one you love, and you'll have your tone for life. Neil Young plays the same tweed amp he always has. It comes down to how you view the amp; do you want all the options under the sun and flexibility, then go digital vs do you want the amp to feel like part of your instrument, something that's uniquely part of your sound and unchanging, then get a tube amp.
AMEN.
@Bad Boys Boogie Yeah fair points all round, I do agree with you. Since I wrote that post, I have been playing around with a Pod Go, and I have to admit I’ve gotten the most perfect Deluxe Reverb tone I’ve ever had. It is nice being able to get to edge of breakup and low volumes. It takes a bit of work, but I’ve come to realise these things can sound like great amps.
@Bad Boys Boogie Yeah that’s what I do, also move the mic distance out a bit and add room reverb. I took a decibel meter to my amp the other day and full volume. It’s a 22watt 6V6 tube amp. 128 decibels…totally unusable! Haha
Yup tube amp with pedals. But modelers are coming close, I'm impressed.
I played drums with Otis Rush, Buddy Guy, and a few other great blues guitarists. I know tone when I hear it. I started playing guitar a few years ago, finding a sweet spot is hard on tube amps for many guitarists. You have to be a tech master to dail in tube amps plus pedals these days. With blues/ rock emerging , you have to be able to deliver blues licks + crunch to stay current. I feel like modeling amps are just easier to find a sweet spot tone. I will say , there's nothing like the old blues masters with those beat up old tube amps . Those guys fingers were the tone , not the amps.
The GTX100 kicks so much ass and is so easy to use, even as a metal player this thing is amazing, I dont have anything bad to say about it, I'm still amazed nearly a year after I bought it
All great points. I'd like to expand a bit on the maintenance discussion for tube amps. In my experience, if there's an issue, it's usually a simple fix by replacing the pre-amp or power amp tube(s). You can keep spares just in case, and if you don't have a spare, they are usually available at a guitar shop or just simply order them online, and the problem is solved relatively quickly. If something goes wrong with a solid state/modeling amp, it would be like trying to fix your PC - you can't. It has to go somewhere to be repaired. Years ago I had Kustom amp, which was solid state, I had a problem that took almost two weeks to fix in the shop. Having said that, there's a need and place for both tube and modeling amps in today's world.
Great informational video. Learned a lot so far
I sold my perfectly working and great shape Fender Super Six once I heard the GTX100. I had the Super Six for 42 years, and the GTX has me completely fooled. It's the best thing I have ever experienced and heard. I love the ability to play real tones at low volumes. It's an amazing product.
I am glad you are happy with your purchase, but will the GTX100 still be perfectly working after 42 years? I don't think so. Something else to ponder.
I have played through my 410 Hot rod Deville for years but I recently bought a tone master Super Reverb.
I’m really liking it! My Deville was too loud to get cooking at 75 percent of gigs.
Hi, Steve! I love the sound of a good cranked rock guitar for sure (I have never played a tube amp, btw). For me, a bedroom player, always playing through headphones, modeling is the way to go. When I don´t want to use headphones, I use my pair of monitors, and that´s good enough for playing at home. I have a Mustang I V1 amp, but I would really like a RP500 pedal - yeah, old gear, I know -, or a newer Boss ME80 (really, I don´t need the amp speaker. Wish I knew better when I bought it almost 10 years ago). With either of those you can picture me happy. Cheers! Great video, I liked it!
I just purchased Dave Fender Mustang GTX50 and I gotta say for the convenience factor you can't beat itI just purchaseda Fender Mustang GTX50 and I gotta say for the convenience factor you can't beat it Been able to have literally anything that you need right in front of you Great video man keep them coming!!
Thanks Steve, great summary of pros and cons.
A tube (valve) take time to warm up and then they are beast
When it comes to solid state amps (including modelling amps), I liked the sound of mustang gtx, but I fell in love with the silverline series. What I surprisngly didn't really like was boss katana series, it is decent but to be that much ahead of everything? I dunno, just not my style I guess...
I also had a bassman 4x10 re-issue for a short while. It was very dynamic and pretty bright. In fact it was so dynamic that I just couldn't control it and that's why I sold it very quickly.
I had pretty bad tinnitus, and so, at the really low levels that I play at, my Mustang LT25 and Yamaha THR10C sound fuller and richer than even a 5w tube amp would. I've tried a LOT of amps to get the best tone at low levels before settling on these two.
Honestly, I love my GTX 100. It's really convenient, especially with the community presets. But I would really like a big model from Positive Grid. I just bought the Spark mini which will serve as a Bluetooth speaker and also as a practice amplifier wherever I am.
Interesting video. Here is my take:
From 1988 untill 2006 I used a music man combo. It used two el34 tubes in the power section and it had a solid state pre amp, so hybrid). I used a tubescreamer for drive tones.
In 2004 I started using Line 6 pod and in 2006 I upgraded to the podxt and I few years later the pod hd which I still use (the desktop "kidney" models which I use live on stage in combination with a foot controller and in ear monitoring).
While using the line6 pod modules I started to miss my combo amp with an actual speaker for smaller club gigs (without in ear monitoring) but I noticed that the music amp quality of (clean) tone could not hold up against the line6 PODxt.
I was never really satisfied with the music man. It was missing the sparkle (high end). I bought a mustangV2 3 and later on also a mustangV2 4. Now my guitars really came to life! I sold the Music Man (and I never looked back).
So if an amp uses tubes it does not automatically make it a good amp. I have never used 100% tube amps: too expensive, too heavy and not very usefull at lower (stage) volumes. (I admit I never tried a vox ac15 or a blues junior).
I'm not able to distinguish a real tube amp from a good modeling amp in a blind test so for me there is no reason to use tube amps. I only use a few of the available amp models in the mustangs and the line6 modules so I'm not into the modeling for the variaty of tones/amp models. I'm actually in it for the quality of tone.
Awesome comment! Great to hear your in-depth thinking and opinion. Appreciate it 👍
@@SteveGuitar Your welcome. Thanks for your video. It seems to me that modeling will take over more and more in the future.
If tube amps had the effects that modeling does then they would be world's better and didn't weigh 100 LBS. But they don't.
Great video! Subscribed!
Btw I'm a beginner and during the last couple of years I acquired a mix of tube and solid state amps: currently own a Boss Katana 50, a Marshall DSL20, a Vox AC10 and most recently a Fender Mustang GTX50. The very last one replaced a Pro Junior which as much as I wanted to love, I just couldn't get used to and I couldn't get the tone I was after out of. Maybe if I upgraded the speaker from the generic Fender speaker and if I upgraded the tubes it would've sounded better, but it would've meant putting even more money into it. So I returned it and got the Mustang GTX instead, which came with a Celestion speaker. I'm really enjoying the Mustang. And I do love my Marshall and my Vox too! As far as the Mustang getting obsolete, as long as you can get a bunch of presents that you need, you can keep using the amp long after the app is discontinued.
Appreciate your perspective and agree with most of your points. I will probably always have a few tube amps, but it's also so convenient and so much easier to manage volume levels at home with my GTX50 and Mustang I/V2. So each has it's purpose. I fin that in loud jam sessions, my modeling amps - even my old Mustang IV 150 watt, can wash out quickly and not quite keep up with a loud drummer.
BTW - You mentioned that now Fuse is not supported by Fender and so the Mustang 1/V2 and that generation of amps will practically be "bricked." Not so. I run my I/V2 on Fuse all the time. You just can't get any software updates or download anymore models/tone presets from the community anymore (and there are actually probably some other sources for the community tones.
I took a chance a few years ago buying a Vox AC10 and i love it my tone and overall playing improved, just because the amp has such resonance and presence....very warm sounding too ..
Very good discussion. I just bought a Fender Mustang GTX 50 and I am enjoying every minute. I like playing around with all the effects and having a ball without disturbing anyone. But here's what I can't do: I can't get a decent jazz tone with my 1978 Gibson Deluxe (yes, bought in 1978). For that, I have to go to my trusty Polytone tube. Go figure...
I have played through both the 65 deluxe reverb and the tone master deluxe. I found the tone master sounded thin in comparison to the tube counter part. I did own a 100 watt fender v3 amp and it was amazing amp that sounded very much like a tube amp, unfortunately the fuse software site discontinued its services. My only gripe is how many digital amps are you going to go through in the next 10 years in comparison to a tube amp. I like the digital amps and with the technology moving so quickly, the sound is not quite there as far as tube sound goes.
Actually you can still use Fuse to operate your Mustang V1/V2 amps. I run my Mustang I/V2 on Fuse all the time. You just can't get any software updates or download anymore models/tone presets from the community anymore (and there are actually probably some other sources for the community tones.
I tried out a Tone Master Deluxe recently and my first response was it sounded very tight and brittle. I’ve played tubes my whole life and love them. But I’m getting older and going to buy a modeling amp, the tube amp is just getting to be a bit much to carry around.
Thank you Steve for your hard work
As someone who's been playing for almost 20 years exclusively through digital/modeling stuff, and recently have changed to analog/tube amps, I can say that it's definitely not a matter of tone, but feel. My real Dual Rectifier responds to my playing in a way my DR amp modeler never felt before. Can digital sound close to a real amp? Sure, with a lot of tweaking it does sound the same. Does it feel the same when you play? Nope, not even close.
I think you nailed it. That’s a great distinction and point in favor of tubes. Nice👍
This is what I tell a lot of folks. It's not really something the listener can hear. It's something the player feels.
The modelling amps or living room gear just has really useful features for acceptable volume (which sounds good), jamming to backing tracks and usb audio interfaces, headphone output. Your run of the mill valve amp doesn’t have any of this except sounding good but probably too loud at home. I like what Revv are doing with their tube D20 or G20 series amps with built in Two Notes attenuators, plus still versatile to gig with.
I just started putting compressor at the front of the chain followed by the 5 band eq with the 80 cut completely. It sounds fantastic now.
I had a Fender 85 combo solid state amp. Loud as hell at 65 watts RMS (root-mean-square or average output instead of peak.) And I would get an effects box and the first thing I would do is look for a patch that sounded like Ted Nugent's ES-335 Byrdland playing through a tube amp. And most times, I could do it. Which means that I did not need that exact guitar and maybe a Super Lead on two 4x12 cabs.
So, having just recently bought a GTX-100 and really liking it, I can say that with solid state, you have more choices. The amp runs cooler. You can fake anything because it is mostly about EQ, anyway. And lighter. And cheaper. I have had a few albums that were initially on vinyl and later on CD. And the digital version sounded better.
So, get a modelling amp like the GTX. It will do everything you want to do.
There really isn’t anything that is quite like a tube amp dialed in the sweet spot, but if I were forced to choose I’d have to go with the modeler. Far more practical and so close in terms of sound it wouldn’t even matter once the drummer kicks in, and you can turn it down low enough to hear the television and still sound good.
Very informative! I have the new gtx50. Do you use the global eq settings?
Sorry I just saw this! But glad you enjoyed it 😎 I typically use the Bright Boost 1 or 2, because I like more treble/presence to keep things from being muddy. Hope that helps 👍
I have a modded Bugera V5, Bugera V22, Peavey Delta Blues 115, and a Peavey Classic 50 2x12 USA made. I love those tube amps for different reasons and don't see myself getting rid of them. I have a MkI Katana 100 and a MkII Katana 100, both of which have the Sneaky amps and Dumble amps.
And I have a Mustang GT100 with a Katana MkII speaker swap. In my opinion the stock speaker always let the amp down. With the latest software and that speaker I really like the way it sounds.
So, that being said, I find myself playing the Katana most of the time. The Sneaky & Dumble amps really transform the amp. The Fender cleans and Dumble tones are all I need really.
I love playing through the GT100. It is a versatile recording tool.
I don't see myself getting rid of any of my amps. I like having SS, digital, and tube. It's a nice variety.
The light weight of the GT100 and Katana are a nice departure for sure.
As long as there is a market for tube amps they will stick around.
Great video, I do have a good unswer to your question: have both amps. I have 2 tube heads and Mustang GTS 50, same as yours and also an old solid state amp and they all sit in 3 different rooms for different acasions...
I like that plan!
Hi Steve, what do you think about the Marshall Code 100w 2x12? I used to own a Fender Mustang 3 V2, and I loved it, but i felt i wanted more distortion and that´s why I went for the Marshall Code (the 100watt btw has fx loop), I also would like to get the GTX 50 in the future, but meanwhile I own the Marshall Code 100 and I'm super happy with it, I just wanted to ask you what´s your opinion about it...... and yes, I've playing for nearly 30 years, and I´ve had tube amps, solid states, hybrids, etc... and yes , maybe the Tube are the nicest sounding amps, BUT i think owning a Modelling in these days is a HUGE plus, as you said, you just plug your guitar in and that's it, you have everything there: Effects, Different Amps, crunchs, Cleans, distorted, etc... It may not be 100% the tone as the one it is emulating, but it is very close to the real thing and besides: Who´s gonna know you´re not playing a tube? maybe one or two musician friends, but the rest of the people wouldnt notice.... I completely agree with you. I enjoyed your video a lot. Thanks
Hey, sorry I missed this. Unfortunately, I've never used the Code amp before, so I can't comment on it. But I agree with your points ... I think modeling amps are GREAT, and the Mustang GTX is the best in this price range to me. Hope that helps a little. And glad you liked this! Appreciate you watching.
Love this video (haven't even got past the first point) - I'm currently looking at small tube amps (like the Supro Delta King 10, 5 watt amp) versus a Boss GT100 style modelling pedal, versus a Mustang iii or Boss katana style modelling amp. I've been playing for 25 years and just want something to get me a nice Fender twin kind of sound... Also tried a second-hand Vibrolux but is pricey and almost certainly too loud as you identify here. Only playing to myself in the home, only sound-chasing to give me that feel that makes you want to keep playing.
I got an svt 8x10 pro that I adore. I never get to use it anymore, it just kinda hangs out in my friends studio. The digital stuff sure is convenient, and way cheaper than owning a whole analog pedal board, but it's just not the same. In regards to pedals, there are a ton of niche options that frankly no multi effects processor can touch. I can't even go for feedback when I want it when we're all using in ears. It's a different, far more convenient world, and as good as it all still sounds, even the best amp modeling doesn't have the presence and warmth that the real amps have. I miss being able to rock the block with my svt even if it's just in spite of the sound guy hahaha. even fiddling with your tone midset becomes a lot trickier when you have to bend down to your pedals than when you have an amp. I would still use my SVT every chance I get, I'm really hoping I get to tote it to some outdoor gigs this summer at least.
I own both and love both for different reasons
I would never buy another amp, or ANY electronics device that depends on "going on line" to get the best out of it. The Fender G-dec comes to mind and the mustang also. I still have the mustang 1 in version 1 and 2 and they are still great practice amps, low volume amps, but with only the onboard effects now that Fender fuse is gone. My favorite amp for gigs, practice, LOUD and quiet times is the Fender Champion 100. Never needed to be "on line" and has great onboard as well as accepting pedals very well, light weight, and inexpensive. But that all said, I still love the nostalgia of a great old tube amp. Guitars amps and guns...I always need just ONE more.
i sold my Marshal JCM800 and quad (it was just too big and loud and heavy) and eventually settled on the GTX100 no regrets. I mainly love the variety.
Hello Steve. I'm Vladislav and I live in Russia. I am a beginner guitarist, I sing my own songs and accompany myself on the guitar. I now have a dilemma in choosing an amplifier for home music playing and recording songs. I chose three models: mustang gtx50, Marshall code 50, Line6 catalist 60. what do you recommend?
Thanks so much for this video. I also used to have a Blues Jr and now have the GTX50 and have been wondering about trading it for a tube amp. Your video really helped me with that decision. I play in a band and don’t have any pedals so the GTX50 gives me the versatility I need. Great video and thanks again!
Awesome! That’s so cool, thanks for sharing👍🎸
Hey Steve - I continue to enjoy your content and occasional input over at TheGearPage as well. I have a special request and bet I'm not alone..
There's some chatter about Fender Mustang not doing a great job replicating the Vox sound and since you're a former long-time Vox owner - who better then you to create a Vox AC30 tone (AC15 works too!?) for us followers! Thanks again and keep up the great work!
Hey Stevie B! Thanks for the kind words. Glad you’re enjoying everything. And I’m not sure if you saw this or if it will hit the mark, but I made a VOX tone based on a Foofighters song and Dave Grohl’s AC-30 stuff. See what you think, and I’ll consider more 😎🤙ua-cam.com/video/Y9f9Ot3HIJg/v-deo.html
Nice topic Steve. My tube amps of choice are the Bugera's. Have both the 22 and 50 watt both in Cab and Head but lately I don't turn them on. Mainly like the low watt amps. I bought two of the Spark Amps and while they don't compare to the GTX (in my case the 50). I'm hoping Fender comes up with a smaller wattage GTX(battery operated possibly).
Interesting. You could probably
Make some nice $ by selling those bugeras. But they’re probably sweet. And here’s hoping for that battery powered GTX!
@@SteveGuitar I think you are confusing Bugera with Bogner. Took me a second to realize the amps you probably meant. That said Bugera's are still good budget amp. If you like Fender and Vox you would probably like these amps. If you like Marshall probably not. At any rate I'm scaling to smaller amps :)
@@vectortonto1 oh yeh, you’re right! I’m not fully up to date 😂
I've been using solid state and digital ever since I started playing in 1987.
I changed my sounds and tone many times over the years, but forever, I always felt my guitar sounded a little tinny compared to my heroes.
I recently picked up a cheap Marshall dsl100h tube head and a cab, and within minutes I had a tone I liked.
I love my vintage 65 Twin, but it weighs a ton and is too loud for what I do now. I got the gtx100 and the twin is in storage.
Great info, but I think it gets a bit muddled by lumping all non-tube amps into the same class. I think anything that requires software updates or uses an app, should be a separate category than something like the Fender Champion series which are solid state, but don't require any sort of connectivity. But overall a great video 👍
Thanks Steve. I own too many of both (is there such a thing?) and I love them all for many of the reasons that you've mentioned. While initially cheaper to purchase, with the obsolescence factor, most solid state amps are all but worthless to sell used after a few years. A possible exception might be Fender's new Tonemaster line - we will see.
Great comments, and I totally agree. Do you have a tonemaster? I’ve thought seriously about getting a Deluxe (or just a real tube amp in a Blues Jr, which I owned for years). 👍
@@SteveGuitar No Tonemaster, I have the tube versions which I've owned for years. Now, I would get the Tonemaster version. I really like that they have attenuators. I could never turn my Twin to the max and survive. ;-) I have a Blues Jr. Tweed which I love, plus a Marshal and a Vox. I'm older and collected these over many years. My solid states are a Roland Jazz Chorus 40 and a Blues Cube Artist. I am looking for a modelling amp but the choices are overwhelming! Kinda narrowed it down to a Mustang, Line 6 Spider or Kaytana. The problem is that they are all too good. I can't really find a fault in any of them. If you wait, I wouldn't be surprised if Fender come out with a Blues Jr. Tonemaster. Apparently the line has been a huge success.Thanks again! Subbed.
@@carlweiderick 🤣🤣🤣 I had a twin years ago, which is probably why my ears don’t work the way they used to 😭
I used to lug a mesa boogie f50 round the pubs, weighed a ton, was either off or deafening, never distorted (broke up) as it was too loud for gigging.. Sold it.. Play now with a 2 channel blackstar ht dual pedal straight into p. A. Winner
I think you're living in the future, man... The hybrids are, in my mind clearly the winners in all this. The HT MKIIs are a great example. Tube warmth and, like another commenter said more importantly feel, but with the volume, effects, and options of the digital modelling world. If you haven't played one, H&K's GrandMeister amp heads are the pinnacle of this currently.
Excellent balanced discussion. Thanks. I prefer tube amps because i hate digital amps and always have and whenever i plug into one i just put the guitar down and dont play. It feels like a waste of fun time. And I can always tell the difference, i dont care if others cant. But... i also play in a tractor barn with cranked 100 watters that you can hear 1 km away so I like my super fun times.
I was in an amp emergency (after playing acoustic only) and bought a used Mustang 1. Worst waste of $75 in my 63 years. I need an amp that will give me blues tones. As a result of my experience I don't think i'll trust a Fender digital amp again. However, my wife works at home and goes to bed early and I am (very) limited on volume and have to work out a compromise of some kind with an amp. Any suggestions?
Great video! I am going for tube amp because it's the sound I am looking for. Also it is the sound that I am hearing from my heros. But at the end it depends on the budget. But youre right modelling amp is very close or maybe even better? I guess it always depends on the player and playing style. Maybe sometimes do a lot more of playing comparing the tone of tube amp and modelling. Thanks! Keep safe
Great comments, Rekka! I like what you said about how that’s what your heros played. True!
I saw a video of the new neural dsp and the reviewer was saying something in the realm of it being so close to the real thing. If I’m gonna spend over 1k I might as well buy the real thing. I’ve owned both and I keep going back to tube amps. The size factor of the lunch box style and the load boxes that are coming out I’m happy with that.
The oil on your fingers can not damage vacuum tubes. They don't get anywhere near hot enough for that to be an issue.
This is interesting because I was just playing my Boss Katana and a Epiphone Valve Jr. Prefered the EVJ.
Both! I have a Kemper and a 5e3. Kemper is amazing but it requires effort to get it dialled in, once there is is as good.
I’m debating between the two now but that’s leaning me towards tube/pedals is the ability to switch tones mid song and jam out and be more interactive vs stop, lean over, switch things around, and play again…. Or are you able to set up these new modeling amps with foot switches? Even still… going through 189 options on a foot switch sounds overwhelming.
Good modelling amps offer foot switches for enabling and disabling effects with a click (reverb, delay, distortion etc.). Or even switch between entire pre-sets with your foot during live playing.
Send/Return on the back of the amp offer to use your own pedal board if preferred.
A good and honest video. I actually own tube and digital amps.
If I was playing live I would want a modeler into a high power (digital or tube amp) to dial in the exact sound I want for each song and part of the song. I love a little tube amp and pedals for jamming with family at home. The tube sound is so much better than most digital amps and it is so easy to press the pedals to turn sounds on and off. A digital modeler would be such a pain for jamming and messing with sounds on the fly. I believe everything has its place.
I have a 1964 Fender Champ that I use with a pedal board that sounds amazing. I have a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe I use with a pedal board which is a great setup but to much power to crank it in my situation. I also have a Fender gtx100 modeling amp with tone and options for days. To my ear the two tube amps have a better tone than the modeling amp. If I were to advise someone that could only have one or the other and had to make that choice myself I would go with the modeling amp. No question.
Valid points on both sides. I opted for a Fender Blues Jr IV after comparing that and a GTX50/100. Modeling amps have come along way, baby. My 80s Peavey was just awful! The reason for the tube pick? It still sounds so warm and full compared to the modeling amp.
I built Dumbles and even built solidstate. Tube amp compression is different! It responds differently no doubt about it. Solidstate is different its lighter and easier to take to gigs but, I need both!
Me too, my expensive tube amp stays at home and I bring a modeler to gigs.
It is simple. Just buy what you think works best for you 😊 It wouldn't hurt to listen to the users of both and figure the advantages and disadvantages of both. In case you're still confused or not convinced you can opt to buy both 🤠👌
Can you use the GTX 100 with a tube amp plugged into it, simultaneously…say a GTX- tiny terror combo stereo setup ? Just wondering.
Good point.
Hi Steve, great video. I currently own the Fender GTX 50 and really love the versatility and amount of tones I can get out of it. In your opinion do you think it would be worth owning this amp and a Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb at the same time or is the modeling good enough on the GTX?
I'm happy with the sounds I'm getting out of the GTX, but I've played through the Tone Master a few times and it's calling my name. I wouldn't get rid of the GTX because of the sheer amount of options. I'm able to pull up any type of sound any time for any genre I want. However I'd say 80 to 85% of my playing is in that breakup bluesy rock crunch tone the deluxe does so well.
I'm a bedroom player and don't plan on gigging anytime soon, and that attenuator feature on the tone master is perfect for getting break up at lower volumes.
Hey, I’m just seeing this now, but great comments! I am right there with you… I love all the flexibility of the GTX, but a tonemaster deluxe would be awesome for the type of music you are talking about… Bluesy crunch. 👍👍👍
@@SteveGuitar Awesome thanks for replying. I think I'm gonna hold off on the tone master for now and put that money towards another guitar. 😆
@@hellodrjeckyl I endorse that plan of action! 😎
I have a Positive Grid Spark 40 and a Marshall DSL40C Combo. I think I'm covered!
Haha, sweet!
Hi Steve 25 years ago I remember having a 100 watt Marshall stack and my son had had his Marshall stack in his bedroom
Believe me when the wife was out that house moved
Yep values are ok but only near melt down
And ya moving them as well as the les Paul's was a real back breaker
Amps have come a long way on since them days
Will stick with my Gtx and will never go back
Cheers
Too funny! Good thoughts. I’m going to do a poll here this weekend, and we’ll see some stats around this topic 👍
I need a small bedroom amp but need to feel it. I dont want a giant tweeter blasting pure high tones.
Im using a very old Vox Valvetronix 15w because of the bass. Its dying though.
Everything else is pure high tones.
Help...
Both Old and Digital is where is At
But i will always have a huge softy for good and revolutionary Epic Techy tones
A Modeler built in to Tone Master would be the ticket.
All my equipment is on wheels. Even if I gotta stack on top , I can move everything on wheels. But wheels don't do a thing at stairs. My tube amps are HEAVY. Both are on wheels but a 100 watt Boogie and a Twin are always gonna be heavy. 100 lbs each. That being said these days for "bedroom" playing I'm using a Hotone Mojo Diamond head into a H B Monoprice 15 watt cabinet without the amp part. Just the 70/80 speaker. Actually pretty loud with my P board going through it. Lightweight and quickly versatile. Head stores in the cab. And the whole thing only costed me $60.&
I would love to love modellers. And I have tried with the “best” I could find, because I would like to get some of the benefirs of going digital. But… its just so very different. I can get close, my brains accept it by my ears and heart does not. The sound and feel comming from a GOOD tube amp with the “right” speaker and cabinet is just superior. But offcourse if you compare with a not so good tube amp, I guess its okay. But you are right, it needs some juice, so an attenuator is your friend :-) But its like discussing good, bad, expensive, cheap guitars - its all about if your gear inspire you and makes you happy. Great video btw…
A friend of mine contacted me all excited about a Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb he purchased. He actually sold his Mesa TA 30 to purchase it. The Tone Master is solid state so I was doubtful it could sound as good as a tube amp. My friend assured me it was every bit as good as a tube amp. Having heard some sound recordings he produced on the Tone Master I have no more doubts. The Tone Master is nowhere near as good as a tube amp. Sure it was ok when super clean albeit a little bright and lacking tube warmth but it was acceptable. Push the amp into overdrive and it all falls apart. It was muddy, fuzzy with no cut or definition. Note separation was almost non-existent. Basically it reminded me of the 5 watt transistor practice amp I bought over 40 years ago when I first started learning guitar. If you want to play rock and blues only tubes will give you the sound. Maybe one day digital modelling amps might be able to get you there. They are still a long way off from emulating the natural clipping of vacuum tubes.
It’s not the tone of modelers that’s inferior to tube amps, it’s the feel/texture when you’re playing through them. At the same time, Marshalls tend to lack dynamics to me… And playing through modelers is like playing through a Marshall… I like the smooth, roll off the fingers feel of a Fender
I have both, but my tube amp is a class a 5 watt 6" spkr amp and when I want to here the character of the pickups on a guitar I like the guitar, with chord to amp connection with nothing else; this achieve's a total analog signal path, but if I'm using even one digital effect incl. EQ's etc you're waisting your money. I'm all in for SS and modelling amps with nice spkr's and good connectivity options. The convenience and costing plus some weight savings are way too beneficial. Good amps weigh more because the power supplies and spkr's are better. Know what you're paying for and how it has to serve you and you won't waist your money.
If Marshall put out a digital JCM800 combo with one 12 inch speaker that weighed less than 25 pounds, I’d buy it immediately‼️
Try Mooer X2 and any of EHX stompbox-like poweramps + regular cab or fx return of a good combo. I've Mesa JP2C model with fully analog pedalboard, ABY splitter to select between regular input and fx return of my Laney L5T-112 and I ❤ it.
I don't understand people starting a debate, if valve amps are better or not. It is obvious that a tube or valve amp has the best sound, since that is what we have in our head when we try to make an amp and distortion. The question is wheter the technology advanced enough to recreate a fairly similar sound without paying a ton of money and roughly 0,25 ton every year for upkeep :D :D
I love my dr tube amp my Johnson melinium, and my roland micro cube. I use all of them.
The Fender Tonemaster Series shouldn't suffer from obsolescence the way the Mustangs do because they mimic amps which are over 55 years old. While they do have USB connectivity, they are really unnecessary if you like the way the amp was designed. You can upgrade to the blonde/brown specs, but I and many others prefer the black/silver specs. If the 65 Deluxe and Twins are still desirable, so should the Tonemasters. And you don't have to worry about fixing them if they don't break.
Even fender says they don't know how long the things will work.
12+ years ago, I bought a Roland Cube 60 COSM modeling amp. Big change from the Marshall combo I used back in the 80's! Lots of fun at low volume. But... then our drummer came over. It Sucked!! - Flash forward 2021, the Fender Mustang GTX, and Boss Katana, amps are light years better now, times have changed. Blackstar's HT series tube amps, look pretty nice... No Way I'd fork out $$ for a 90's Mesa or Rivera.
Got a Blues Junior, a 60s Ampeg Reverborocket, and just bought thr GTX100. It's a fantastic amp to play around with, but the valve amps do sound better. A buddy of mine has some hybrid amp Fender briefly made (maybe they still do) that has a tube AND modeling, though it's somewhat limited. If you can swing it, get both.
Try the Catalyst. The GTX was not it. I have a late 90s blues jr, and a laney vc30. The catalyst kills em without all the headaches. Also no buzz. No hum.
Modeling foot pedal. I have 32 cabs and 24 amp models with 100s of effects. I worked a very long time to get my sound dialed in as close to tube as possible and it is killer. Now I can go to any gig or open mic situation with my back pack and pedal and a guitar. Man once you hit a certain age why the hell would you want to carry all that shit around? I dont even need a cab anymore I can XLR into PA. But I do have the cab still for some instances. What is out there now is that good. People ask me all the time what is that tone coming from.?
Well played Sir! Pun intended. Liked and subscribed.
In situations where a tube amp is impractical and you can't crank it, modelers do the trick for me... I use the Yamaha THR10C though. It gets close enough and doesn't sound like a thin solid state sound too much and can get some screamin tone from that thing and the effects are great. Of course I still love tube amps though. But they can be money pits, and piss off the neighbors. especially the vintage booming loud ones. And in that case if you're just playing a non-master volume tube amp at low volumes and have to buy all these pedals to get these sounds, it just seems kind of a waste to me ...
I bought a Kemper and returned it because besides the lack of dynamics/touch response I was getting from it… All the tones sounded exactly the same to me… I see tones in colors, so maybe I have a disadvantage in that respect… But tube amps have different colors to me
Don't have to sell anything buy all of them! You need to fill all the bases
Sitting in a room with 3 tubes and a solid state wanting a spark now to record music 🤔
I've owned several tube amps, and unfortunately they are just not reliable hardware. I have rarely had to replace any parts on my backup solid state amps(mostly Peavey), which I always used for practice at small volumes or brought to gigs in case my amp craps out...which has happened. Now I don't even use an amp. Half of the recordings out there now are guitar modeling, or a combination of real and modeled. To each there own I say, but for me, it's simpler to use pedals and not have to worry about tubes or mics and a whole bunch of possible issues that can come with all that. And no matter where I play, large or small venues, inside or out, it always sounds the same, and the stage volume is so much quieter. Sound guy is way happier too. A lot of pro guitar players are doing this too. The time's are a changin' and that is a fact. As long as the music keeps being made, who really cares? It doesn't matter really. It's all about personal preference. If it sounds good, play it.
The GTX 50 modeling I use seems like it sounds to fake. It has a well to modeling sound and so frustrating to find decent presets for my ear. When I dial stuff in it will be delayed or skip a preset. I don’t think it takes pedals well, especially not a GT-5. I would love to love this amp, just not there yet.
Ina addition to being a professional musician I am a professional photographer and it’s fascinating to observe the exact conversation surrounding digital vs tube amps that took place at the advent of digital photography. “Digital will never replace film”; “the image quality will never be there”; digital will never be able to reproduce the subtlety of color, it’s too artificial”; “you’ll never get the tonal feel that film has”. Sound vaguely familiar? Today it’s almost impossible (possible but very troublesome) to buy or get get a roll of film developed and pro photographers can’t wait to get their hands on the next generation of digital camera because the image quality is so far superior to any thing film ever delivered. I am a long time devotee of tube amps. I’ve had them all, Mesa, Fender, Marshall, Carvin, Peavey, all tremendous tone machines, but there’s something going on when the likes of Frank Gambale, John McLaughlin, Mike Stern (to name a few who know something about what a guitar sounds and feels like) are playing through Modeling amps and Macs. I’m not necessarily a,in an argument for or against tubes or modeling amps, but it’s undeniable we’re in a brave new world of guitar amplification.
Very interesting! Seems like with photography, most were ready to move to digital writhing 5-10 years, but with amps, 30-40 years later, the debate and divide rage on. Great post. Thanks!
@@SteveGuitar the great difference between guitar Amos and cameras is while digital amps are less expensive than tube amps digital cameras are WAY more expensive than their film counterparts!!
Read guitar amps not AMOS. #%#€$% autocorrect
You missed the two biggest advantage of digital/modelling. 1. Consistency of tone. Unlike Tube amps, that can sound different, with different humidity, temp, power quality, the Modeler just needs eq'ing for the room. 2. Bang for the buck. Where else can you get so many amps, fx, with built in audio interfaces, etc, for the price?
It comes down to are you a professional in a band where you can crank 100w marshal stacks or are you an occasional gig player that can get away with 20-40 watt modeling amp.
Honestly, If playing through an antique makes you feel good subjectively that is all the excuse you need. You'll play better just because you love the idea of what you're using. Same goes for the latest tech. Although I do believe limiting your palette in one aspect will often channel your creativity into another aspect.
On another note, its hard to judge tone if you don't have a reference. I think playing a tube amp is a good exercise just so a person has some historic perspective on the technology that influenced the development of the music. Listening to an expert compare equipment is nearly meaningless if you have never learned to operate a tube amp in the first place.
Some people just don’t wanna evolve with the times. As pro nostalgic as I am I still support love and favor modern technology. Fender gt 200 for me
It's not just evolving with the times, it's deciding what trade offs suit you. There is no universal law that says "modern" is better. So called 20th century modernization made huge improvements in many ways but also brought on global warming remember? It's all just an ongoing set of trade offs.