The Argument for Zutara
Вставка
- Опубліковано 17 чер 2024
- 00:00 - Introduction & Disclaimer
01:47 - Why people don't like Zutara, Historical ties to dislike
04:47 - Argument setup explanation
-------------------COUNTER-ARGUMENTS-----------
05:02 - CounterArgument #1 - Zuko is a colonizer
12:11 - CounterArgument #2 - Zuko is a killer
15:16 - CounterArgument #3 - It's a bad example for romance, it's toxic
17:30 - CounterArgument #4 - Zuko had Mai
17:54 - CounterArgument #5 - Katara would never be with someone from a genocidal people that murdered her mother
23:47 - CounterArgument #6 - Zuko is too old for Katara
-------------------ARGUMENTS-----------------------------
25:44 - Argument #1 - The absence of protests with other Zuko pairings
26:32 - Argument #2 - Katara took a little longer to take Aang serious romantically
29:03 - Argument #3 - Aang was easy
31:52 - Argument #4 - Katara being Zuko's wife would help in the reconstruction and reparation efforts
34:13 - Argument #5 - The tension between the two
***forgot to address the two times Zuko hired assassins and beat up Kyoshi warriors, oh well - Фільми й анімація
My least favorite part of Aang and Katara’s relationships is just how Aang-centric it is. Every time he has a conflict, she’s there to help him and nurture him, but he never rlly does the same? He’s there for her, sure, but we never get a moment like when she pulled him out of the avatar state in the desert for him to do for her. I just wish they spent a little more time on showing how her very motherly affection towards him turned into a romantic attachment and wut she gets romantically out of that relationship w him. She’s like ‘I’m confused’ and then there’s never a scene where she gets un-confused, she just figures it out off screen. At least in Zutara they show the growth of that relationship.
She was confused because they were in a war and was un-confused months later when they weren't. And Katara gets a guy whose morals align with hers, unconditional support, respect, and the fun she sometimes forgets to have. Zutara went straight from enemies to freinds in the last 5 episode of the series. I would count the catacomb scene but it wasn't very specific to them. Katara bonds with several people through loss throughout the show.
@@ayoogunsakin9223 The crystal cave scene is specific to their characters arcs. No one else could replace Zuko in that scene, who else has a scar and is " the face of the enemy"
Most shippers DIDN'T want them to kiss or just suddenly be together we we're hoping for an ending open to interpretation. No Grand kiss for any of them. The show really didn't need that.
Zuko did give her unconditional support, don't pigeon hold him to his past when I say this that's completely disregarding his character arc.
Zuko and Katara can have fun. Now they tease each other in a playful way, and on the same note also have a serious discussion about his mistakes.
If the show had at least once given Katara a moment to sort her feelings. With Suki probably and give her that spot light just so she can show her feelings the way Aang got to for 3 season I'd probably feel better about the canon pairing.
@@stephylynnpatch ..When has Zuko ever teased Katara or had fun together? When has Zuko had fun period (at least in the way Katara enojoys it)? Katara teases him the same way she does her brother. She's all cute with the guys she liked ie Aang and Jet. Aang and Katara have actual fun together, she relishes in being a free spirit. How in the world can she do that if she got with Zuko...the firelord. Katara's feelings for Aang weren't a main point in her arc or conflicts. Aang was about finding a new family in Katara and his friends, and Katara's was about how strongly she felt about the people she loved she would consider even killing for them. A lot of her realtionships brought her pain during the war, don't you think she'd want to start a new one after it?
@@ayoogunsakin9223 they tease each other during the play, and when he makes bad jokes.
@@ayoogunsakin9223 If you can't image how they could have fun that's on your imagination. Because I can think of so many way for them to have fun together.
Honestly, Katara’s mothering relationship with Aang made me MORE uncomfortable with their age gap, not less. At least Zuko and Katara felt more like peers
Exactly, both because of that feeling and because the younger one is the more significant the same age gap is and feels.
Riiiiight? I've had a wierd feeling about it since before I had the vocabulary to articulate it=))
Well you realize that 12 to 14 is the same age gap as 14 to 16 right?
@@nahte-it is the same gap in numbers, but the younger the person is, the more weight their age carries. 16 and 18 and 20 and 22 just aren't on the same level, for example. And there's generally a pretty drastic difference between a 12 year old kid and a 14 year old one. Though I wouldn't say the ages 14 and 16 are much better, too.
It transmits the vibe that even if they are 12 and 14 they will take it slow and live the life with all their friends and they will become the 14 and 16 years olds you guys appearantly think it s more ok.
the thing is people are putting too much weight on THE relationship, the show shows in the start how immature aang was compared to katara (they don t put them in mature relationship positioneither), they both grew, they have feelings for eachohter and care a lot for eachother, but they just kiss, they themseves don t put a lot of weight on the things people do in a relationship they put their care and love for eachother above anything.
I'm tearing up on this section about how Katara as Zuko's wife would've helped reparation efforts. She absolutely could've done so much and she absolutely would've found fulfillment in that work. The fact that she ended just staying home caring for the non-air bender kids that Aang ignored I-
That’s because of LoK’s regressive writing. Such a shame what happened in that show.
@@amuroray9115 And that was ALL Bryke. The best writer and Zutara fans were the showrunner Aaron Ehasz and his wife. The best episodes were written by them; not Bryke.
@@ForbiddenHanyou i no longer hate Korra as much as I used to. Season 2 was god awful but Season 3 of Korra was great. Season 1 was ok. And season 4 was decent.
That and the comics, the way that Katara was sidelined in favour of Aangs fanclub never sat right with me. It directly parralells the scenario when they first go to Kyoshi island and he knows how badly that hurt her when they were just platonic but he still subjects her to it after additional months of getting to see how bad her abandonment issues is. Its one thing to blame the regressive writers of Korra or getting complacent with time passing but thats literally right after the show ends. He got his girl and goes right to ignoring her
@@Ami-zi6si who wrote those comics?
About Katara forgiving her mother's murderer... She didn't forgive him. She only forgave Zuko for being there for her when she needed it.
no she forgive him you can see to her action
No she literally states at the end she will never forgive him (the person who took her mother. But she did get closure.
@@islasullivan3463 yea the scene is literally "I'll never forgive him[the murderer] but I'm ready to forgive you[zuko]"
(and then they kiss)
No she doesn't. Katara literally says she'll never forgive him.
@@addictedtothewrittenword3451 She said that she will never forgive Yon Rha- who is the killer of her mother, but she forgave Zuko, how can you guys be this dum dum while watching it
I’m a Zutara shipper that also sort of ships Kataang, but my major issue with Kataang is that I feel it doesn’t consider Katara’s feelings at all. For the entire show, Aang is constantly told by everyone that he can win Katara over eventually if he keeps trying, and I don’t like that. I’m not saying that guys can’t shoot their shot, but it kinda made Aang feel entitled to her romantic interest.
HE kisses HER at the invasion, and as someone who was the same age as Katara when I first watched this show, I wasn’t feeling it. She didn’t look particularly happy to be kissed by him. And honestly, would you really pull away from a kiss with a dear friend who’s flying off into a dangerous and possibly lethal battle?
Then there’s that time when Aang was pressing her about her feelings for him, and after she said she was confused, he STILL kissed her. Aang is definitely a fave for me. He’s the bestest boy, but I really hated that scene.
Honestly, it just felt like he imprinted on her because she’s the first girl he’s really been around. He seemed in love with the idea of her rather than who she really is. And she sees him as the only hope of the world. I feel like Zuko and Katara have an understanding, and I don’t feel like Mai can understand Zuko the way Katara does.
I would have liked Kataang better if the got together in the comics, because development was minimal on Katara’s end, and their last on-screen interactions were him kissing her against her will, and yelling at her when she tried to help him before the comet. So it seems SUPER unearned and relegated Katara to the prize Aang got for saving the world.
Whereas we watch Zuko help Katara heal, watch her forgive him, watch Katara do literally nothing to sit next to Aang when Zuko sits next to her, watch Zuko & Katara in battle training together, watch them stand by each other’s side nearly every moment during the comet and Jun reminds us she thought Katara was Zuko’s girlfriend, and finally we watch them risk their lives to save one another.
@Ghazanfar Ali Katara's feelings were NOT reciprocated.
I know they had jealous scenes and stuffs. (Because Bryke's attempt to give us Kataang was that.
I mean, Kataang and Zutara never had a rivalry. It was chosen from the day 1. Zutara never stood a chance)
But that's not how you write a good romance!!!
Katara in the beginning was not the Katara in the end. She turned into someone stronger and someone with dark sides as well as good sides. (Who came to accept it)
It was so forced that the writers almost forgot who Katara was.
(Even Bryan accepted it was forced)
As the series ended, they were like "So, Kataang was planned. The series is ending. We should make them kiss".
They weren't thinking about what Katara would choose or what she would think about getting with Aang.
And it led to a disaster of LoK. You can't ignore the CANON. LoK's Kataang is super toxic and that's what I mean when Katara and Aang were not so compatible in the first place.
Couldnt have said it better myself 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
And he’s over a 100 years old so like.... does that sit right with u?
The tea is piping hot with this.👀
@@nonameyet9952 girl you did not just try to make that an actual point.
like, lets be honest now. ZUTARA had the chemistry, the understanding of each other's past and limits and helped each other to be better, in every possible way. they are the definition of love: balance, passion, trust and understanding.
I personally believe that if Sokka hadn't pointed out how strong of a bender Aang was in the fourtion telling episode (Where the lady told Katara she'd marry a powerful bender) I don't think she would have seen him on a romantic light.
Self fulfilling prophecies...
Damn she barely saw him romantically after that. It took until a long while later for this feelings to even develop.
i always saw this and my mind goes "ok so zuko?"
and then i heard "isnt aang a strong bender?" and i was like... oh
@@renoirrr Zuko was still bad by that point so there’s no way you thought she would end up with him 😂
@@nebula8893 id heard about zutara before watching that though so the idea popped into my mind
Okay so I literally JUST finished watching ATLA for the first time at almost 30 years old. Like, binged it over the past week, finished up the last episode 2 hours ago and immediately started searching for Zutara videos because I was CONFUSED that they didn't end up together. Maybe it's my own fault for expecting a more nuanced romance plot from a children's show, but I genuinely felt like that's what the show was building to. I thought hints were being dropped within the first few episodes!
1) The fortune teller tells Katara that her love will be with "a powerful bender". We're meant to assume that means Aang because obviously, but it's left pointedly vague. She didn't say "Avatar" or even "a powerful AIRbender", which leaves the possibility open for a pairing other than Aang. Iirc, the camera then cuts to a scene of Zuko, whiiiiich.. And the first time Katara shows any kind of sign of interest in Aang, it's only because she associates him with THIS prophesy that could just as easily be about Zuko.
2) The choker thing. Just the whole damn thing. Obviously there was some tension there when Zuko was taunting Katara with it. Like you just can't look at that scene where he's holding it up to her neck and pretend there's nothing more to it, so don't try to lie to me kthx. But also, when she was missing it, Aang tried to make her a replacement to cheer her up. Only he made it out fishing line and flowers. At the time, I thought this was supposed to represent the difference between the two ships. Like the choker he made for her, their romance was cute and sweet, but ultimately fleeting and childish. Zuko was the one in possession of the REAL choker whose pendant was carved from stone. And when Aang steals it back for her, he says, "ZUKO wanted me to give this to you", to which Katara replies, "Thanks, give him a kiss for me!" And we later find out that it's an ENGAGEMENT necklace. Like. I didn't think it was subtle, but apparently it was just a coincidence and I'm crazy. Whatever.
3) The romance with Jet was entirely about showing that, even though Katara had suffered at the hands of the Fire Nation, she didn't hold everyone IN the Fire Nation responsible. I thought this was being established specifically so it could be challenged later with Zuko. Which it kind of was, but it would have been so much more meaningful for me if she'd replaced Jet with Zuko.
4) The forbidden lovers story (the episode where Katara and Aang almost kiss in the cave) was clearly supposed to parallel some kind of romance within the show. But whose? Cuz Katara and Aang were never actually forbidden. They weren't from warring tribes and separated by a mountain that they had to carve tunnels into in order to meet in secret. The only thing that kept Katara and Aang from getting together was the fact that Katara just wasn't that into him. But do you know who Katara WAS warring with? Who she ended up connecting with underground in a cave filled with crystals that were kinda similar to the ones in the lovers' cave? Connected with SO quickly that she almost gave him her super special magic healing water just to fix his scar even though it could potentially (and soon did) save someone's LIFE?
5) Sniffer mole bounty girl called Katara Zuko's girlfriend. Like multiple times. And apparently she really thought it was true because it was the first thing she mentioned when they met her again in season 3.
6) I *really really* thought that part of Aang's character growth was supposed to include getting over his crush on Katara. His dynamic with her was always more like a mother and son or older sister and little brother, so I thought him "growing up" would mean him growing out of that dynamic. See again: the choker metaphor, which seemed to be reinforced when he needed to let her go in order to clear his chakras and master the Avatar state. What even happened to that? Cuz he was clearly still in love with her after he cleared his chakra, and he accessed the Avatar state again in the finale so..? Am confuse.
Anyway, I got off track. My point is just that Zutara should have been canon. Something something Ted Talk bye.
Edit: Also Mai is not that great.
I love this. So so beautifully written!
I was confused too! I genuinely thought they were building up to this! The writers (edit: or at least some of them) clearly had this in mind and DID play around with it, but it just never made it because you can only have so many episodes.
In The Ember Island Players episode where Katara tells Aang that she’s confused to which Aang kisses her anyways, I thought there was room for another interesting internal conflict where Zuko gets mixed in. Where perhaps Aang and Zuko have something to prove, with Katara at the center of it. Sort of like another, who-to-use-the-spirit-oasis-water degree and type of conflict where she gets to decide what she really wants. But this time, the stakes are much higher especially because of how Zuko was a former enemy and this conflict upsets the balance of the group. It really would have been something interesting to see but then again, I counted how many episodes were left and just knew it wasn’t going to happen because that kind of conflict would’ve taken at least a few episodes, if not, be the overarching plot line for an entire season.
Also not to mention when zuko was introduced into the gang the relationship between katara and him began blossoming even more. So much could've been done but they made her end up with aang
WHY DID I JUST FREAKIN FOUND YOU NOW??
About your edit: Mai is great, just not for Zuko. If any pairing for her exists among the major characters, it’s Toph - whether platonic or romantic.
Before I had watched LoK, I was pretty neutral on the two ships. But watching LoK made me retroactively dislike kataang. No way on EARTH would Katara have let Aang be an absentee father, especially since she still managed to take care of the kids while doing her job as a leader. No way she'd let Aang let his duty get in the way like it was presented in the show.
Her character also just seemed to have reduced in general post atla it seemed like her purpose after atla was centered around aang
I thought aang would become a good, wise, and mature father. but no. the idea of katara as fire lord's wife is still more wholesome than avatar's wife. she herself made a great politician
someone gets it!! 😭
Same, the comics and LOK made me actively HATE Kataang rather than just be sad or ambivalent to it. They turned her from a badass who cares of everyone around her and is strong enough to keep the group together on multiple occasions when they could have fractured apart or even died. To a flighty girl who giggles about being the "avatar's girlfriend" or sits alone sad in a corner while "learning to accept" Aang flirting with his fangirls (the comics) to a lonely old woman who spent her life popping out kids till she gave him an airbender, taking care of the non-airbending kids when Aang constantly left them behind, was a homemaker, had no presence in the wider world and wasn't remembered as a war hero, just as a healer. (LOK) Basically Bryke turned her into "a good woman" as Paaku would have seen it in S1 and I'll never forgive them for that.
One thing that made me pretty pissed was that katara was remembered as "the best healer from the water tribe" while yeah thats impressive it feels so wrong. Katara dreamed all her life to be a master waterbender, dueled with Pakku to fight for women in the northern tribe to have the right to waterbend, became a master at waterbending to teach aang, bloodbended after only seeing ONE demonstration... she was easily one of the greatest waterbenders of her time. after being with aang i hate that she was washed down to "the avatars girl" and "a great healer"
What I love about Zutara is that it had Katara more on an equal footing with Zuko than with Aang. To me, they made a more compelling story of lovers that came to be rather than just being given to each other to be lovers (or to the other to be their lover, depending on how you see it). It's been explained multiple times why and how by so many ppl lol so that is my simplest answer to why this ship never faltered for me even tho I tend to go for the classics.
Honestly Kataang could have been so much better done if the last half of season three was rewritten. Aang and Katara fight or change their dynamic (i.e. kiss during the invasion), then never talk about their emotions. They literally ignore the conflict they're having. And at the same time, Katara and Zuko are becoming close friends. It's like the creator wanted us to root for Zutara, then shatter our dreams with making Kataang canon.
THIS!!
They litteraly have a chibi short with zuko being one of katara's pretedants, they are called a couple atleast 3 times but kataang just one
@@shawerful5209 adding to this too, there was even a teaser that heavily hinted at a Zutara pairing.
That's what happened
I am okay with both pairings but the only major thing that bothers me about Kataang is how it followed the hero always gets the girl trope, and it did so not in the most tasteful way. Throughout the series Aang was very pushy towards Katara about his feelings and didn't seem to care much about how she felt. He could come across as a bit of a "nice guy" in those moments. I think Kataang would be a lot more wholesome if the writers had shown Aang and Katara work through those issues before getting romantically involved with each other. It also would have been interesting to see them honestly explore characters being torn, and having feelings for more than just one person.
I see what you mean, and those last two concepts you mentioned would’ve been awesome to watch in the show! It would’ve added a dramatic layer to ponder over concerning their relationship, and made it stronger and more autonomous, less predestined, in the end.
Same, my main issue was the last few episodes being so messy for the relationship because they never resolved the conflict between Katara and Aang lol
Then in the last scene they just kiss? It just really came off as one sided with Aang pushing for it and Katara being very unsure and uncomfortable all the while showing how understanding and calm Zuko could be around her. Just a weird after taste for me lol
@Erin Gardner i'm interested about the morals/views that you think wouldn't align... because that sounds like Mai and Zuko's dynamic (Zuko thinks he's saving the Fire Nation, Mai thinks he's betraying it. Zuko is hypersensitive, Mai is apathetic).
i also don't understand the element analogy. as Iroh says; the show's lesson is about balance. we can't just stay with one element, or we become weak. we need to learn from each other's cultures and traditions, which is why Zuko and Katara getting together would be thematically cohesive to the show
@Erin Gardner yeah, i totally respect your non-committal opinion. you still didn't answer my initial question, but fair
I understand but I disagree. Katara was pushy with her emotions as well. She always brought up her mom and tribe so much it was becoming annoying. Like Sokka ain't talking like that, and Aang lost his whole people. Also zutara doesn't have that big connection like kataraang does. Really, she was with Zuko at the end to make amends and broken hearts. Outside of that, they've never really knew each other, like Aang and Katara knows each other. Also Zuko was a hero himself. If Katara went with him that "trope" not gonna die. I think it was the right move for the writers to not explore zutara romantically. It's not necessary for the show and the different character arcs.
Mai is not great. Her first interaction with Zuko was him telling her about how he's been away from home for so long and rather than show sympathy she just tells him to shut up.
I agree. Zuko needs someone sensitive, someone he can talk to, someone thoughtful. Katara is that person. They are opposites and yet the same. Complement each other and fit together perfectly.
@@sif_2799 there was also a video on a different channel about how if Zutara happened (I think it was CBR ) that during the process after the hundred Year war would have been way more sensible in some sort because just because the now fire lord ( Zuko ) helped the avatar during the 100 Year war doesn't mean everybody will just magically trust the fire Nation now and if Zuko and katara a symbolism of two opposite Nations with the kind of help that process cuz just think of it the water tribe would hear that the fire lord has formed a relationship with one of their own kind and to hear this automatically states that he might be somewhat trustworthy and the water tribes would try to work with the fire Nation as best as possible and then the Earth Kingdom will hear news of this and they realize that everybody is coming together and they would want to join in on the therefore creating what is known in the comics ( THE PROMISE ) as the harmony restoratioN movement and then in the part of the comic where Zuko finds out that Earth Kingdom citizens and fire Nation citizens has found a way to bring peace the first person would probably take attention would be katara because of their Relationship I'm done and they would both be alive and since they're both close friends with aang whose main purpose is to restore balance without your reconsider for the sake of their friendship
@@jxaydendx3927 That's so true. And Fire and Water coming together would be all the symbolism and parallels being fulfilled..
Yes, now examine the results of certain Fire Nationals not appreciating a “wster tribe peasant” becoming the Fire Lady and trying to start a separatist movement- and thete are your external conflicts for Book 4: Air.
yes i have no problem with ships but if the writers problem were not leaving Aang alone they could have teamed him up with On Ji (the girl from the Fire Nation headbend) she seems as sweet as Aang and Sokka even says they look beautiful together, it would be interesting to see a fire nation citizen being responsible for bringing back airbenders to the world, even if there are people who think it's cool that the idea of her being Kuzon's granddaughter could even be his reincarnation or whatever. Aang and Katara for me was like Catra and Adora it wasn't something I saw coming or I saw myself rooting for but it happened and I was like "ok, let's go this way" I really like Mai and Zuko but I really can't deny that Katara's sensitivity would be good for Zuko, Zuko is constantly angry while Katara isn't but when one of them goes out of they comfort zone it's another one next to her, I don't mean it necessarily has to be romantic but I've always seen this one kind of dynamic as something special is like they support each other to let go of their insecurities and feel what they want to feel without having to do it without feeling like they've betrayed themselves.
People who disagree tastefully and can still be friends *chef's kiss*
It breaks my heart that she ended up with Aang, in my eyes she got reduced to a mother figure and caretaker for Aang then turned wife. Zuko makes so much more sense and in my heart it's him she ended up with
@MARIABUNCHMOTHERGODDESSA-rp3gqyeah. But she was also more than that. She was diplomatic and stubborn and combative and the writers literally scrubbed that out of her in her adulthood to make her even more maternal and “feminine”. Why is she specifically the Greatest Healer of All Time and not “A Revolutionary Waterbender” when she fought tooth and nail on Multiple Accounts (see Pakku and the pirates) to learn all facets of Waterbending. They didn’t add traits that weren’t there, they whited out everything else.
It bothered me especially because the root of her trauma is her parentification and a lot of her "motherly traits" are just the need to mother everyone around her in fear if she doesn't, everything will fall apart. And because Aang relies on her for her motherly traits, it makes their relationship super toxic. Like no, I don't think it's cute the girl who was fighting everyone about wanting to be a fighter and becomes one of the greatest waterbenders in history, gets remembered as a healer. And i certainly don't think it's cute that a girl who was parentified her whole life gets with someone who becomes an absent father and leaves her to parent their kids alone. Zuko would have respected her and been an involved parent,she would have never been reduced to a housewife or a background character to his life with him.
I ship Zutara because they are compatible and complementary.They understand give and take. They communicate well together.They listen to each other. They see each for who they are not who they want the other one to be.
I feel like Aang sees Katara through rose colored glasses. He's fine with her so long as she stayed the Madonna, anything other than what he was too dark for him. For an Avatar Aang was pretty closed minded to ways outside of his own.
Mai never changed her colonizer ways and people don't ever bring that up as a reason why Mai is toxic. When Zuko tells he's saving his country Mai tells him he's betraying it. She never once condemns the FN. She only saves Zuko because she loves him, she didn't about the war or the Avatar. Had Zuko not been there she would have let everyone at boiling rock die. In fact Mai and Zuko fight more than Katara and Zuko. I don't hate Mai, but I don't think she was great. She had the potential to be great, but she was one dementional and didn't grow within the show(or in the few comics that I've read).
I also feel that Zuko recognized the survivor guilt in Katara because he felt that as well. To him his mother was basically dead.
Zuko and Katara was an equal relationships, but with Katara and Aang it was like brother/sister or mother/son. Gross.
I'll also never forgive them for what they did to Katara in the comics. No statue. No involvement in politics. No more fighting, even though she loved to fight, she just became a woman in the healing huts.
Zutara is canon in my heart and mind. Zutara 5 eva.
I mean just the episode of them going together to avenge her mom, they worked so well together and even with few words, they understood each other
@@Lalalalandrawr Yes, they just needed more episodes or maybe a 4th season to really be a great canon couple
Taang and Zutara has so much more chemistry and love and MAKES MORE SENSE than Kataang and Maiko. I'm being honest. I make no apologies.
-Taang needed way more development.
-Zutara would have still been forced since Zuko spends most of the series as an enemy. I don’t think Katara falling in love with a guy who tried to kill them a few months earlier, would have been too natural
@@amuroray9115 I. Make. No. Apologies. Get. Out.
@@ivckrxs118 they had chemistry but I just want to point out that no sensible person is going to fall in love with a person who attacked you repeatedly as an enemy beforehand. All in a couple of months.
Even if you forgive each other and made up, you’re not going to easily forget trying to actually hurt each other in combat. Even making death threats towards one another in the past. That would take a long time. Hence why I said it would seem forced. At best, you become closer acquaintances, allies, etc. who’ve decided to let bygones bygones.
@@amuroray9115 so, the best option was NO romance, and then in LOK, THEN reveal Taang and Zutara. Great 😋👍
@@ivckrxs118 They are friends for 5 episodes. 2 if you count the finale as one, four-part episode. It would be forced as fuck. Also, no, they didn't have chemistry. Katara treated him the same way she treats her brother (teasing him and poking fun at him).
there's so many reasons why zutara should be cannon even politicly they have the upper hand. If they got together it would have been the start to savaging the bond between the water tribe and the fire nation. It would have been a great alliance in general but they also had great chemistry by the time the end happened. They had the development for a relationship while aang really just pushed his feelings onto katara and in the end they really didn't have chemistry for a long term relationship at least. I feel like aang and katara would have been that couple that lasted all highschool but then broke up because they went to different colleges and couldn't handle the distance. Honestly aang is more like a child to katara by the way they treat eachother through out the show. Zuko and Katara were never shown as having a relationship like that and were way more like enemies to loves then anything else.
YES! YES! YESSSS!
I feel like the political potential is unrivalled too! Haha! So when I saw a comment about that section I'm the vid I felt super validated! 🤭
I love seeing stuff in fanfic that go the "Humanitarian Fire Lady Katara" route! Like, it fits her character and her ambitious but companionate nature so wel! And taking into consideration how og ATLA ends in such political disarray for the fire nation it would make total sense as marriage of state to show the world how important for the nation is moving forward in the name of peace?🥺
Tell me a more kickass, hopeful and optimistic ending for a world war!
Well all this stuff and the chemistry you mentioned....I'm in absolute agreement bestie!
Just.... CHEF'S KISS ALL AROUND!😌👌🏻✨
kataang shippers that yell “ITS CANON from the beginning” should have nothing to say with how rushed and questionable the writing choices were with loks romances. Makko and Korra is just the writers doubling back to zutara and throw salt on the wound to the detriment of the whole show. We learn in both shows about the principles of yin and yang and balance yet when it comes to water and fire suddenly its too chaotic?
if zutara was not considered, there would not be so many hints.
You can see that there are parallels between aang and zuko, in zukos relation to Avatar Roku through his mother. their intimate moments with katara in the Cave of Two Lovers with the crystals and the Crystal Catacombs; they both got shot by lightning by azula to protect her, aangs scar is on his back and zuko in the abdomen, which really drives home the way the handle confrontation by the way...and theyre also two “Powerful Benders”.
However zuko willingly took lightning to the heart for her without question even knowing what his uncle said could happen. is that just about “honor”?
Katara the only one he let touch his scar; if aang didn’t bust in at the worst possible time zuko would have joined the gang in Ba Sing Se.
Kataras nature is to nurture and heal, probably somewhat due to the loss of her mother. But unlike Aang, or the rest of the gang, she did not act as a mother to Zuko.
He is the one to help her heal from her deepest trauma in southern raiders, showing the strength of her gesture in said cave...Aang meanwhile was worried about the actors of katara and zuko hugging in the cave(Clearly this is something Aang was insecure about). Aang never really comforts katara how she does for him and it just seems like she is his incentive to act as the avatar.
Also If she was into Aang so much then why would she not reciprocate his handful of advances because they were “at war” and she was “confused” but she was interested in jet and haru(went to jail for him lol)? just saying something to think about.
Katara only treated Zuko like his mom because Toph litteraly said her to stop and she hated Zuko while almost the all show.
The ships like Zutara are always bullshit
@@slayyyyingNas the original was giving their subjective opinion. Nothing they said was facts. The hints they saw aren't objective hints to katara and zuko liking each other. Both kataang and zutara shippers needs to learn to respect each other.
I have been a Zutarian ever since I was a teenager and I continue to be the proud Zutarian I am today. This couple is far too wholesome for me to surrender.
This is one of my favourite shows of all time and since the very first time I watched it, I’ve shipped zutara. It’s been YEARS and I STILL ship zutara. It’s not just the we love blue and red colours, but their stories are entwined! They could build something so strong
(Normally I don’t make two comments under one video, but I’ll make an exception for this) I 100% agree with this video. I don’t want to come off as a toxic shipper, but I really dislike Kataang for several reasons.
1. Kataang follows a done to death trope. For a show so good at divulging from stupid tropes like the “Damsel in distress” trope, I’m sad that this one slipped through. Having it so that the hero automatically gets the girl just feels forced and unnatural. Especially when it’s as horribly written as Kataang, but I’ll get to that later. If the show wanted to have an underlying message using the love story, I think that doing that while also diverging from a commonly used trope would’ve been perfect. But, of course it’s not that simple, of course it has to follow the unrealistic trope that has been beaten to death.
2. Aang doesn’t deserve Katara. I don’t think Aang deserves Katara, and I don’t mean that “Aang is to good for Katara.” what I mean is that he literally didn’t earn her love. The entire show he sort of just assumed that they’d get together. With the fortune teller saying that Katara would marry a “Powerful Bender” (and then just assuming that he is that powerful bender), him getting kind of angry when he saw that Katara was bonding with Zuko, and that scene where he was pressuring her about her feelings about him, and then he KISSED her after she specifically out lined to her that she was feeling unsure about it. He really did nothing to gain her love. And Katara doesn’t really seem to be that interested in Aang (at the beginning at least). People like to point out how she goes after him as soon as they meet, but I think that’s just because she knows that Aang is not only the Avatar, but Aang and Appa are her only way of learning water bending. And even if it’s not, just because she cares for people doesn’t mean she’s in love with them. He did save her tribe after all. Another thing is that when she first gets the idea of Aang being her boyfriend (I’m talking about when she meets the fortune teller that tells her she will marry a “strong bender”), she doesn’t really seem happy, she isn’t smiling, she just seems kinda “Ehh” about the idea.
3. Why Zutara would’ve worked. What I am about to tell you is my personal concept for a Zutara story that would’ve been... Well, good. I’m not gonna get into the specifics because we would be here all day, but I am going to tell you about the quick story beats, and why they would’ve worked.
Imagine, after the adventure that Katara and Zuko go on in Book 3, there’s another episode. This time, about Zuko going mad. Why, you ask? Again, I’m not gonna get into many details, but I will say that it’s because of his mother. This whole thing is eventually resolved by Katara, and they both hug. Then, Toph says, “Wow, Zuko is one powerful bender.”. That triggers Katara’s memory of the fortune teller. But instead of just seeming indifferent to it, she actually smiles, and hugs Zuko a little tighter. Then, fast forward to their fight with Azula, after the fight, Katara decides to confess to Zuko, and Zuko reciprocates.
I know that this sounds like basically every Zutara shippers fan fiction, but this would work for one big reason. And that is that it would teach kids multiple valuable lessons. That would teach kids that just because you want something, and you feel like you deserve it, doesn’t mean you do deserve it, or that you’ll get it. It will also teach kids that life doesn’t always go on the route you think it will go, or the route you want it to go. But that doesn’t mean that the path it does take is bad, it just means that it’s different. So yeah, it would teach kids about valuable life lessons, and it would be a good and realistic love story.
I rest my case.
I really understand to your feelings and love the scene you built (I have my own theories on the fortune teller Katara originally met that align with yours, maybe a later video!). One and two are outlined very well, and I agree that is the crux for why personally, Kataang felt so lacking to me as a viewer. She seems very "eh" a majority of their romantic implications or interactions. This could honestly be a video on it's own with all the context behind it. I also dislike that trope you mentioned disliking in #1 and honestly if Katara showed a little more willingness or initiation on her end with Kataang, I think that could've helped. But she didn't, and I can't blame her...Aang insisting on a romantic relationship from her was...also yes, people argued that she was initially interested when they first met but I think he was just a new friend, an interest, and a hope for the world more than a romantic interest. Now I think I WILL do a video on this later, actually! All in all, great comment, this was fun to read.
Love it! And 100% Katara was like the first girl he ever liked and she mothered him for 2 3/4 of the seasons. And he doesn’t do anything to get her love! Like the first we see Katara actually thinking about aang romantically was the ending when they kiss after sozins comit 😭 they didn’t even build but to it!
@@Jay.T4NA Bruh did you watch the series with your eyes closed lmao. Katara developed feelings for him all the way in season 2, and that claim about Aang not doing anything to get her love is just completely unfounded for a plethora of reasons.
There's a video called "get in losers we're stanning zutara" that gives a really excellent break down of how zutara makes for a compelling story that fits with the overall themes of the show better than Kataang and raises some of the things you raise here. Highly recommend it.
I don’t think Kataang was horribly written at all. I do think Aang and Katara had some moments but Katara’s viewpoint could have been fleshed out more.
I don’t think it would be realistic for Katara to love Zuko when a few months prior. He was hunting them. Even after forgiving Zuko, it would take a LOOONg time to get to any romantic feelings (if any at all) after all that emotional trauma
“Is my OTP zutara? YESS” hahahaha I’m crying also your argument 5 is PERFECT! No one is ready for that conversation 😂
It's not a coincidence that more that two people, don't like the fact that Kataang is based on Aang's feelings and not Katara's. When I was a child I couldn't understand but now that I'm 20 years old I can see that the creators only wanted for the good boy to get the girl like she is a prize. Without caring for her emotions, for showing her side of the story, without making her relationship with Aang healthy in the comic too and then making her feel bad about feeling sad that Aang left her to go with his air benders fan club, without giving her a statue or a story of what happened to her. So we can clearly see their point of view of a healthy relationship that it's actually toxic. Like Maiko, where Mai doesn't give a damn about Zuko but who cares? She is the emo girl she will be together with Zuko because that way Katara won't be with him. Personally, I believe that the creators wanted Aang to be with Katara because of their personal emotions about the good boys that never get the girl. I know it's sounds mean but to me, this is why they made Maiko canon and Kataang. It's like a riverdale script now that I'm thinking about it😅, where the creator writes to satisfy his self rather than to create a romantic ending of a healthy relationship that the kids that are watching the show, will want to find.
Lots of people also think it was a self-insert from the writers. Both series writers said they based Katara off girls they had crushes on but were never able to get, and if you look at adult Aang in LoK, he literally looks JUST like one of the writers.
Just saying.
Sneezy Reviews made a video perfectly vocalizing how Zutara fit the bigger themes of Avatar. About balance and need vs want. Katara is a good dimensional character that is motherly but also has her own urgencies. Aang didn't support Katara when she had a need vengeance. The last seasons show how Zuko understood and supported Katara when she was going through her own development. Even the emotions that were aggressive and not pretty. If the creators just had Zutara talking alone and fade out, that alone would allow characters to grow. Katara would have a chance to not only express her feminine traits like healing and mothering but her masculine ones like leading and fighting. She would be allowed to go outside the idolization that Aang saw her, especially in the first seasons. Zuko with Katara would be encouraged to learn from other nations like Iroh taught him.
Tbh I personally prefer Zutara aswell and probably for the "forbidden love" thing. This Video was just great, well made and definently one of the better Avatar Videos. And if that doesn't say anything I rarely watch videos over 10 minutes
That’s high praise! Thanks so much, I’m glad there are others who enjoy the pairing like I do. I also enjoy the forbidden love aspect lol
No 14 year old girl would feel attracted to a 12 year old boy, and Zutar is the perfect enemies to lovers story. The mother to lover is so creepy
17:35
To add onto this…Zuko and Mai also had 0 development.
I was rewatching the series a month or two ago, and around the middle part of season 2 I remembered that Zuko and Mai got together at some point.
But I couldn’t remember how…or why…
And I assumed it was because the last time I had watched the series was during 2020 and I was kinda half paying attention until it got to season 3, which is when the stakes got the highest.
But when I rewatched the series and paid attention the entire time…no…no development.
I *think* there was a hint in a flashback of when they were kids…but no.
Season 2 ends.
Season 3 begins.
And they’re just…together.
We never saw ANY of the chemistry they actually had before starting their relationship, if they had any chemistry at all.
It just felt like a random decision made in the writers room to assure that Katara and Aang would end up together with little to no excuse. Katara and Aang were always intended to be end-game, so when the writers started to realize that Zuko and Katara actually have some chemistry (intentionally written or not), it looks like they put Zuko with Mai to prevent the audience from noticing any previous chemistry Zuko and Katara may have had.
…
And then Zuko and Mai break up and he has more chemistry with Katara and it solved nothing.
As a kid back then there's a gut in me that ship katara with zuko, haru, and jet, but not aang. as I got older and have experienced relationship now I understand why. Those guys listened to katara's heart and aspiration, except aang
I don't think Katara ever loved Aang romantically - the play on Ember Island portrayed it brilliantly. Until the final kiss, there was zero indication that Katara held any romantic feelings for Aang. She always seemed like an older sister to him - the mature, strong woman who raises the young, immature boy and teaches him to be a great fighter. It would have been great for Zuko and Katara to get together (slightly tweak the writing in the third season to include romantic moments between them), and Aang to get together with Toph. There were like 4 scenes where Aang actually expressed his love to Katara (and in all but one of them, she didn't reciprocate). I found Toph to be a great match for Aang, considering they were both spirited young kids who had some great character development over the course of the series and just seemed like a good match for each other.
Nah, I wouldn't say that. There already was tension in the tunnel for instance. But their connection was not primarily based on attraction. And honestly (maybe just my pov) relationships that develop more from a deeper kind of kinship feel more mature and honest to me. It's what sets apart true love from a superficial crush (like we saw with Jet)
Lovely video! As a black latina, who still feels the effect of colonization in my country today, I actually get really upset when people throw the "Zuko is a colonizer" argument around and try to make people feel guilty about the ship. I get specially frustrated bc I've seen this argument be mainly used by white ppl against POC shippers and it's funny to say the least that they don't realize the irony in the situation.
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I also find it reductive to judge Zuko's character like that when he was just a teenager who was banished when he was still a child and, as you say, didn't have direct impact into the colonization process. People can't choose where they're born or what their families are gonna teach and impose on them. What people can choose is to walk away from those harmful beliefs and practices and that is exactly what Zuko does, and not only that but he tries (and essentially succeeds) in repairing the mistakes that were done before he was even born.
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I also feel like people don't realize how many times ATLA shows that ppl aren't black and white. That you can still be born in an awful nation and be a good person, or be born in a good nation and still choose to do harm. We see evil people in the Earth Kingdom, we see good people in the Fire Nation, we see how ppl are brainwashed to believe the Fire Nation is doing something good since childhood in the episode where Aang goes to school.
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And what you said about ppl not using this argument against Zukka is really true. I've seen ppl try to justify it by doing absurd mental gymnastics to say that Sokka's trauma isn't the same as Katara's and that he never associated their mother's death with Zuko so it is okay, but then the argument completely falls apart. Sokka is still Water Tribe, still part of a colonized nation as they argue, so just bc he doesnt do the association it means the colonialist aspect that was criticized is suddenly okay? Genuinely makes no sense to me.
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I've thought about this many times, wondering if I was just being insensitive, but after talking to other Zutara shippers who are also POC and many from countries that heavily suffer with the impact of colonization I've come to the conclusion that the moral argument is just smth ppl tend to (not everyone, but some ppl) to disregard the ship and make ppl feel bad. Well, it's not working, we've been here for over 16 years and I doubt we'll go away any time soon!
@Beatriz da Costa did you ship anyone in Avatar?
@Beatriz da Costa That's okay, I'm glad you've had the opportunity to talk to other shippers and understand why we ship it! I appreciate the apology! 😊
I really love this comment because its expresses my reservations for the coloniser/killer reasoning because i am also from a previously colonised country (Kenya) and i have never seen any white person be treated differently because of where they are from or their family but only if they still hold the coloniser sentiment
I think something that would have needed to be dealt with is how katara would cope with zuko being the fire lord. Being in love with zuko is one thing, but she would basically be a ruler over the fire nation, a country she still has a lot of contempt for. I imagine that would make for some pretty complicated feelings. Not to mention the fact this would mean leaving the southern water tribe and her culture behind. Sure, she can still be a water tribe girlie but she‘ll be surrounded by fire nation people, dealing with their issues and celebrating their festivities.
And the divide would be even bigger with people who don‘t know zuko personally. Sure, he might have a somewhat good reputation after some time but i think many water tribe people would still be upset to see one of the great water tribe heroes immediately join their oppressors. This would alienate katara even further from her culture and her home.
So while Zuko isn‘t a colonizer himself, Katara would still pretty much marry into the colonizer royal family. I think Zuko and Katara make the most sense as a pairing but I think, without all these things being adressed, it would have felt a bit weird. With the way the show was paced, it would at least have been hard to write that. I never minded Katara and Aang ending up together but Zuko and Katara is definitely superior!
I ship zutara and I also ship Taang. Now hear me out Toph is the only character that treats Aang as an equal not this special person because he’s the avatar. She doesn’t coddle him, she forces him to face things head on. She’s the only person that has done that. In the episode where she’s teaching him earth bending she forces him to have to tackle the element not on the defensive but on the offensive which is completely opposed to air bending. And every moment with them has felt organic and well written. Also they kinda have parallels both left their homes without telling anyone where they were going. Both are carefree spirits who are more then masters to their elements because they learned from nature. Toph learn from the badger moles, Aang learned from the monks who preach about enlightenment and being one with the world. Also their elements are opposing which help balance each other out. It would fall very much in line with the theme. They both had childish crushes on older people who didn’t view them in that way (even tho kataang was canon she didn’t view him that way till the end). And she has a pet name for aang (she’s used twinkle toes more then any other nickname). There relationship would be free/understanding/built on a solid friendship foundation/they would be able help the other on their weaknesses. This ship has what kataang lacks which is idolizing your partner putting them on a pedestal and when they don’t act as you expect. You scold them for not forgiving like you do. Katara deserved to grow and putting her with Aang took that away from her. It was Aang centered never once did we take into consideration Kataras feelings. That’s my take
The thing about Zutara vs Kataang is that Zutara was NEVER planned, whereas Kataang was.
If you are a writer and just decide to put two people together in the end of the series. That would make it easily canon. I understand that they liked the idea of Aang getting the girl he really wanted to be in a relationship with.
1. But does that mean they're compatible? Nope. Many people like the idea of being romantically involved with someone, but when they actually get to be with them, there are many things that separate them and tear them apart.
If everyone got together with the one they liked and be compatible with them without trying, we would never have exes.
And the world would never have a divorce.
2. Does it consider both of their choices?
Nope. Aang is the one who had a crush on Katara literally from the first episode. (Even the co-writer projected himself as Aang and came up with the idea of Katara being his love interest. Katara was the ideal woman to his eyes)
And they just go with Katara and Aang going on an adventure and doing many things together. They had an amazing friendship, throughout the series even if there were many conflicts.
However, did Katara really choose Aang?
Personally, I would say no. Because we never got to see Katara coming to a conclusion that Aang is THE ONE. She just ends up kissing Aang because of the plan of the writers.
Was it natural? Hell, no. They didn't even talk after the fight between them in the early episodes and clear the confusion about WHY Katara said she was confused. They JUST ended up kissing.
3. Was Aang a simp around Katara?
In some scenes, yes. Especially in the ones that he kissed her. Those scenes were NEVER my favorite.
Think about being kissed by someone you don't wish to be kissed by...
Think about being touched by a person you don't want to be touched by...
(I know Aang kissing is not exactly like touching Katara, but sexual harassment is still sexual harassment. If HE is ok with kissing her without her consent, he wouldn't mind touching her without her consent)
Aang was just too obsessed with Katara in some scenes that were supposed to be romantic.
Think about saying "I would've went into Avatar state if my chi wasn't blocked" to someone you are not even with.
If I were Katara, I would've blocked him from my life. I don't want obsessed creepy dudes pushing me to like them. Tbh, the more he tries, the more I would've wanted him to stop.
*Conclusion*:
Bryke was the reason behind Katara choosing Aang. She was literally forced to choose him.
Aang was not healthy around Katara. Especially with his pushing and stuff. Also, I would still say he is a sexual harasser. (You can have a different opinion, but it still is wrong to force someone to like you or kiss someone)
Aang is a good guy. I love his character, but his crush on Katara was toxic af.
Kataang is not healthy. It could've been healthier if they tried to make them understand each other and each other's wants and needs. (Especially not ignoring Katara's thoughts)
If they worked on their relationship rather than one giving and other recieving. (They had unbalanced relationship in both ATLA and LoK.
In ATLA, Aang was the one who was obsessed with Katara. And Katara taking care of Aang in a very motherly way.
In LoK, Aang was the one who mostly received support and love from Katara and his family. But he didn't give much in return)
It was messed up and it is the main reason why I think Kataang would've been better than how it really is.
Do I think Kataang is better than Zutara?
No. I don't really think Kataang would be at the level of Zutara with understanding or simply compatibility.
But it would be somehow less disturbing and enjoyable.
(No offense to Kataang shippers. This is my opinion about ATLA and the ships. I am sure you ship them because of the great potential they have like I do with Zutara. I do respect your opinion and in any means I don't hate Aang. Only his actions towards Katara and some parts I don't really like. (I actually think the behaviors of fictional characters are important even if it's bad or right. We all project ourselves into those situations and decide exactly what is right and what's wrong.)
We all are humans in the end. We all have goods and bads. And I believe that bad behaviors MUSTN'T be glorified.
Have a good day! 😁❤
Edit: I just read what I wrote and I don't agree with myself with "Zutara was never planned". I do agree with some of what I said and honestly, I don't even care now. I still love Zutara, but I don't give a damn about Kataang being toxic.
Is this like a new thing for Zutara shippers or something? Taking actual lines from the show and purposefully misintepreting them? Purposefully mischaracterizing characters I'm already very familiar with a lot of the shippers but really? "Think about saying "I would've went into Avatar state if my chi wasn't blocked" to someone you are not even with. " Like what are you even trying to say? You do realize that he's blaming himself in this scene right? (Despite the fact that its kinda ridiculous to do since it was out of his control.) I don't even know what you're trying to imply here. And "Aang was not healthy around Katara. Especially with his pushing and stuff. Also, I would still say he is a sexual harasser. (You can have a different opinion, but it still is wrong to force someone to like you or kiss someone)"....are you kidding? He made a terrible mistake, recognized it, and gives Katara space until SHE is ready. With that logic lets come at Zuko too for displaying every trait of a toxic overly jealous boyfriend in the Beach episode. With your logic "If he can insult his girlfriend like that in public imagine what he does in doors", "If he can treat a close relative like that imagine how he would treat you when you become his wife?". Aang was pushy in ONE episode. Every other episode when he was feeling romantic he'd try to woo her and that's it. Most of their moments after she starts taking a liking to him, he consistently compliments her and reassures her.
I'm sorry but a lot of your points just pissed me of.
@@ayoogunsakin9223 ok... not my problem. Sorry
I respect your comment
Yeah, I completely agreed. The way Kataang was written was really crappy, and Aang came off as very possessive, like he couldn't handle the idea of her being with someone other than him. In LOK when she's reduced to a caretaker it shows how unequal the emotional labour was on her side
@@ayoogunsakin9223 I honestly feel as if Maiko was a toxic relationship. Zuko was someone who needed compassion like iroh and not someone like Mai who would invalidate his feelings . Also I personally think that Mai and zuko not being compatible was a very smart idea . When zuko went back to the fire Nation he was supposed to not be happy to push him towards being with the gaang and finally leaving his abusive family . He's never really happy with Mai and constantly withdraws from her. She asks him to torment the servants for fun when zuko doesn't like doing that one bit(granted that she doesn't know he worked in a tea shop) but her ways of giving him comfort are odd???
I mean when he tells her about being upset that he didn't get invited to the war meeting , she responds with reminding him of the most tragic day of his life to somehow ease him????
And also in the beach episode Zuko is at his wits end with Mai and constant dismissive attitude towards him . Ofcourse he shouldn't have lashed out in front her or broken that vase but did Mai ever show any sort of emotional connection to him No she didn't . And also a lot of problems in Maiko would been solved if Mai became more emotionally open but that character development never came . For a character like zuko who goes through around 50 episodes of character development to have a partner who has the emotional level of a rock is a bit weird .
I think it's been portrayed quite well throughout the show that zuko needs comfort and acceptance and a little bit of emotional support (which should be there in a relationship , if there isn't support then the relationship is a fail , which is exactly what Maiko was).
All in all I think Maiko was a representation of the toxicity of the Fire Nation and if he was so happy with the relationship then why did he ever feel the need to leave her by only giving her a letter because she doesn't understand him and invalidates his feelings . Maiko was a representation of how zuko had everything now but at the same time he didn't get what he needed and that was doing good. The idea of Maiko was brilliant in the first half of the season . To show his dissatisfaction with the Fire Nation but to make that endgame was a bizarre choice .
Her comparison of loving zuko more than she fears azula is marginal at best as she never really does fear azula
"Azula can shoot all the lightning she wants at me , I'm not going into that sludge juice" , she clearly isn't afraid of azula . And mai's character is very inconsistent???
She claims to love zuko and openly defies azula even though she knows she could die . But she didn't think twice before giving away her brother for a trade because azula said so. She doesn't even hesitate . Her parents are distraught and she gives away an infant child who couldn't have possibly done anything to make her hate him . If it weren't for the gaang who knows what would've happened.
Then in the comics she suddenly loves her brother?????
All in all it was a bad decision to make Maiko the end game . Though they do break up in the comics .
As for Kataang , I don't think it is necessary to bring zuko into something which doesn't concern him at all . Yes aang made a mistake of kissing Katara without her consent but when do we ever get to see him acknowledge that mistake . Katara storms off from there and then they don't talk about it again . It would've been giving her space to think about it if they would've talked it out later in the series but thy never did and kept it as unresolved conflict . The only conversation Kataang has before the finale of kissing was a fight between both of them where aang storms off and begins his spiritual journey . They left that unresolved as well as the forced kiss unresolved. Their differences in their morals and ideologies was also left unresolved in the episode TSR .
Katara tells aang that she is confused but what happens after that which makes her reconsider, are we just supposed to belive that it happened off screen . It's one of the biggest conflicts of Kataang and them talking it out would've left a sense of emotional attachment or a relevation of their feelings for each other .
Why is it that the only emotional talk and closure she gives about her mother is to Zuko and not Aang? Why does she open up and tell her mothers story to zuko and not aang in TSR when her love interest is supposed to be aang??? Kind of bizarre choice don't you think .
And also in The Guru episode aang had to let go of Katara to go into the avatar state which sets him up for character development . He has to let go of the ideal version of Katara and look at the real her . I feel that the whole series we were watching Katara from aangs eyes until zuko joins the gaang and we see her venting out her trauma unknowingly at him . In the second half of the third season we start to see the real Katara . The one who isn't rose tinted but rather unfiltered. We see her dark side and aang doesn't respond very well to that . He tells her to forgive and forget whereas zuko who also lost his mother understands that she needs closure and justice . Aang is also a bit right in the situation. But katara's been dealing with this for a long time , always giving everyone else comfort but no one ever addresses her trauma until zuko went with her . He went with her when no else did . And you might argue that he wanted forgiveness from her but zuko connected to her on an emotional level as he had also lost his mother and that analogy was definitely better than aangs appa analogy .
Kataang never really has any real development. If she did feel so strongly about him why didn't she address their kiss on the day of the black sun , why did they talk about it 6 episodes later . Why put so much unresolved conflict?
Kataang would've been a cute wholesome sweet relationship if it weren't for all the unresolved conflicts .
I'm stating the conflicts again . One was of the forced kiss, two was of their unmatching ideologies and morals and their conflict about what to do and aang not giving Katara the comfort she needed ( meanwhile she's been giving him comfort the whole show) and third their fight before he left in which he was confused about weather to kill the Fire lord or not . It wasn't Katara's fault nor was it anyone's but not addressing any of the above issues messed with the dynamic and development of the ship.
Oh and I just remembered, they also never addressed the almost kiss of kataang in the cave of two lovers , I was personally quite excited for them to talk about it or you know get a bit blushy whenever they talked about the cave of two lovers (as for me it was quite an important thing for Kataang). But Katara seemed to just forget about it.
Anyways this is my take on Kataang and Maiko . Because you had talked about both of them. If you feel that some of my arguments are invalid than that's your take on them . Hope this helps to see why some people feel that kataang is forced and wasn't developed enough or in the right ways .
And why Maiko(according to me) was a representation of the toxicity which the Fire Nation presented for him . (Still not validating that zuko breaking that vase or being overly jealous was okay)(Just saying that Mai also played an equal part in it and zuko wasn't the only one who was being unreasonable, whereas in the kataang argument it was aang's fault only and not katara's so comparing both the situations isn't fair)
Best video on this topic by far ✨
I always found Kataang’s romantic relationship quite strange, especially with Aang acting like the classic “nice guy” trope during the Ember Island Play episode. The progression from Aang kissing Katara even though she clearly stated that she was confused and conflicted about her feelings towards getting together with him to the sunset kiss was quite abrupt. This is the main reason why I prefer Zutara over Kataang, but both are valid in their own ways.
30:34 I just want to point out that Sokka meets Suki before meeting Yue, but he had a more intimate and romantic relationship with Yue first. That scene where Suki kisses Sokka on the cheek before leaving Kyoshi Island hinted that they had feelings for each other, but once Yue died, Sokka had completely committed a relationship with Suki. This example fits with the video, but the timing is a slightly inaccurate to how the show progressed.
When you watch this show... You can tell different people wrote different episodes and there's a silent ship war going on there 😅
Do you think Toph and Aang could have gotten together if the writers gave their friendship a chance to become MORE than just a friendship
You know, I never gave it much thought! That’s an interesting idea. Perhaps? I feel like it’s hard for me to personally picture Toph with anyone but seeing something develop between her and aang would’ve felt more equal as well as fascinating. I feel like toph and aang are on equal standing for sure. Aang is definitely patient enough for her temper. What were your thoughts on it?
@@heywhatabout7822 the reason I ship them is because
1. Her and aang are polar opposites
2. Aang defeated and I believe that made her show some signs of respect to Aang
3. Aang and Toph are the same age and have the same mindset
4. Katara is more like a mother to Aang
5. She drives Aang out of his comfort zone so he can work harder and be stronger
That's why i ship them but that's just my opinion
It would have been interesting to see Aang and Toph crushing on the waterbender siblings Katara and Sokka but then slowly realize that their ideal crushes like someone else (Katara with Zuko and Sokka with Suki) allowing them to mature on their perceptions of romance. This probably would have allowed Aang and Toph to bond more together.
@@disneyavenger5653 you are right!
Now that I think about it, that would’ve been an interesting thing to see.
I like to think that far in Katara’s and Zuko’s futures, long after kingdoms changed to republics and the sins of the colonial past were forgotten by society, long after their children had grown and spouses grew apart, both characters finally were free to pursue each other.
ugh yes I believe that as well. I mean there's nothing in canon really stopping that possibility so💁🏽♀
Just like gran gran and Paku
my issue with kataang is mainly just that I never felt like katara liked aang in that way. there were plenty of scenes and even full episodes dedicated to aang being into katara but we never really had a moment of katara showing interest in aang. it felt very one sided.
My favorite thing about Zutarra is that the help each other. when Katara wanted to kill the man that killed her mother, Zuko was there to help. And when Zuko was hurt in the agni kia and had asked for forgiveness she was willing to help. she even would have healed his scare and he took a fatal hit for her that could have very well resulted in death.
Me, rolling straight outta 2006: ZUTARAAAAAAAAA 💙♥️
Honestly katara if she ended up with zuko, she would've been a successful and someone who could change the world for the better. Shes would had an so much good impact on society. With Aang she didn't even had a status like even toph had one but she didn't. She was literally just a house wife ( there is nothing wrong with being a house wife) but in Katara's case cause she could've been more than that. Shes someone who wants to make changes, make the world a better place. She hated to be just a healer like you can't convince me that shes someone who likes to only stay at home raise kids ? No shes should be more than that. They could've make the world a better place and so powerful and caring together.
Idk if it's been said but Topher and Sokka always seemed like they would work... He never saw her as the blind chick; he saw a badass bender who could take care of herself, and while she may have dissed him in the beginning, she begins to respect Sokka as a strategist and warrior. I would like to think that they could have worked.
Yes! Tokka all the way!
Yes they would be cute ngl
I like to speculate that Suyins dad is Sokka 🤷🏽♀️ in the show I felt she was just too young at the time but after years later they have a fling and Toph gets pregnant
Tokka is my favorite ship!
So, I ship Toph and Mai, because of their similar backgrounds of wealth and privilege. Toph’s rebellion against it might be delicious to the easily-bored Mai while Mai’s shallow expression of emotion wouldn’t bother Toph in the least.
Forget about zutara, let’s talk about Toph and Aang. Now that’s a ship I can get behind
Eh i'd have to disagree with Mai and Zuko's relationship being great....if anything the episode with them on the beach really showed how incompatible they are. And im not saying this cause i ship zuko and katara. I like aang and katara i think they work. (though i do think a it was little bit forced on katara side) but Zuko and Mai?....No that pairing just shouldn't have happened in my opinion.
I agree SO MUCH. Yes they care about each other BUT they’re both so moody and it creates a spiral of moodiness. And the beach episode shows zuko trying and Mai doesn’t care! And it makes Zuko this ball of anger that he doesn’t have when he joins team avatar. (Still short tempers and angsty though)
The Beach episode literally has them resolve major conflicts in their relationship. Like there's such a huge difference in how they interact after they talk out their feelings in the war meeting episode. You're going to have to see the ugly if you want to see them progress as characters.
@@ayoogunsakin9223 the problem is that they do not progress. They consistently break up each and every single time. What is the point?? Mai is incompatible with zuko. She loves him, yes, but it’s not like her infamous, “I love zuko more than I fear you.” line to azula was because she was moved by zukos words and believed in the atrocities and the military awful dictatorship that the fire nation inherited. She just...wants to be with zuko? Honestly, I think this relationship would have worked in the comics IF AND ONLY IF zuko opened up to Mai more. He was secretive and never talked to her about anything, and he went to Ozai for advice, so I doubt that they actually hooked back together.
Also no, they do not talk their feelings out in nightmares and daydreams. Zuko consistently shuns away from Mai after going to the war meeting and never once opens to her about his unhappiness and disgust about the life that he got vs the one that he wanted. Why couldn’t zuko take Mai with him to meet team avatar? That way, if they really wanted to have endgame couples, the interactions between zuko and katara would seem more platonic rather than being framed a romantic. Zuko should have taken Mai with him, or better yet, Mai should have convinced zuko, asking if she could come with him. It would bring a new development to her character. It would show her that the imperialism of the fire nation was something that needs to be dealt with. That WAY, the words, “I love zuko more than I fear you.” would have some narrative weight in the story and I would consider maiko to be a really well written relationship in the show if this possibly happened. It would remove any possible spark zuko and katara would have because zuko is with Mai, not katara. The rest of the show would play roughly the same.
@@heisenberg1681 they broke up twice in the series. Once because Zuko's inner conflict was causing him to project his anger onto Mai and because Mai's apathy was making things frustrating him. When they sorted out their issues in the Beach they act noticeably different towards one another. Their relationship is relatively stable. The second time was purely situational. There was very obvious progress, I mean like very obvious. Zuko went from offering her meaningless trinkets in order to impress her to asking her specifically what SHE would like. Mai went from assuming Zuko would be fine with minimum support to staying by his side and trying to provide whatever help she could to help him out. And please refer to the scene after Zuko meets Mai after the war meeting because he did indeed talk about his feelings. He was quiet up until that moment because he himself was still struggling to come to terms with why he was upset. He was confused and upset because he wasn't formally invited to the war meeting despite Azula telling him he didn't need to be. He was no longer upset when he got the validation that he secretly wanted but even then it wasn't enough for him.
And come on, why would Mai's love for Zuko "change" her? It's cliche and reduces Mai's character to a girl who's eyes needed opening "through the power of love". Mai was indoctrinated just like Ty Lee, Azula, Zuko, and all those fire nation kids. It took Iroh and months of self reflection for Zuko to finally switch sides. Why would you expect Zuko defecting to suddenly change Mai's views of the war? She sacrificed her life for Zuko because she cared about him and that's enough. It also serves as a perfect parallel to when Ursa gave herself up for Zuko all because she cared about him and honestly that's enough. She remained apathetic towards politics but not towards Zuko. Lastly Mai being there would not have changed anything between Zuko and Katara. They were platonic from the get go but fans will still ship them romantically anyway. Heck fans ship Toph and Sokka despite half of the ship being in a committed relationship.
Should have added this earlier but Zuko likely didn't take her because he and I quote "didn't want to drag her into it". Sounds like he was trying to protect her...hence the statement.
@@ayoogunsakin9223
I do not think that zuko was romantically involved with someone like mai was a bad thing.He needs someone with a calmer demeanor obviously. But...Mai is not like that at all. In fact, she disassociates herself from humanity to the point of near psychopathy. This was put into action in season 2, where her whole family was mourning over some kidnapping of her baby brother, but she nonchalantly eats fire flakes, giving no thought or care about the current situation. That being said, zuko is consistently obsessed and fueled by his passions and because of that, he grows to be an idealist, joining the avatars quest to restore the honor of the fire nation. Mai however does not counterbalance that. She is simply zukos opposite and in the toxic extreme.
Mai and zuko break up a grand total of 3 TIMES: that’s right 3 times! Apart from zuko being the one to initiate the second breakup when he leaves her, it is mainly Mai who always pumps the brakes and after one simple common argument, she says, “It’s over, zuko. We are done.” And this is in stark contrast to a healthy relationship where both partners try to work through their differences and problems. Mai and zuko never do that. Now flash forward, Mai and zuko get back together, after Mai saying he is hot headed and angry, and zuko saying he is impatient, they are back together. One outright and forced breakup and get together.
The second one, where zuko leaves Mai, she is understandably angry, and this was one of the moments I actually liked about Mai and zukos relationship. And there’s the infamous. “I love zuko more than I fear you.” Yes, Mai loves zuko. Sure. But...you think there would still be unresolved resentment between the two of them after their confrontation. That just all ceases to exist in the series finale. There is not true reconciliation in their relationship, like katara and aangs relationship. The plot needs her to be like that. Also, does zuko care about Mai? We like to think he does, but his actions and what he says proved otherwise. In the entire time he is with the gang, he mentions his relationship with Mai only once, and that too only towards sokka. He gushed about iroh towards everybody; to aang, to katara, to sokka, to toph even! Not once does he do that to mai, the love of his life. Even after she risks his life for him, he immediately shrugs it off like nothing. Now shortly after he does that what does he say? Is he gonna say:
A) I have to go back and help her!
B) I cannot believe she did that for me!
C) I never realized how much I loved her!
Answer: my sister was on that island!
Bruh....
And after all that, this not only makes zuko look like he does not love her back, but it just makes him look like a self entitled jerk. But wait:
There’s more.
Shortly after they take down Ozai, zuko and mai somehow reconcile with not explanation whatsoever. Zuko never bothers to check on her, she seems and acts as if nothing happened that substantial between them. They kiss. Wow, great arc. But in the comics, zuko becomes more possessive and starts hiding secrets from her and thus starts another breakup. No reconciliation, just your daily dose of breakup.
That is their relationship. I would have appreciated it if they just were more open with each other and I just do not understand why people to this day defend this relationship. But hey, to each their own.
This was an excellent breakdown! I especially appreciated the attention give to the problems with the "enemies to lovers" trope in actual history. I think the biggest reason why Kataang was never compelling to me is that it played out as Katara was a "prize to be won" for Aang. It wasn't about them growing closer romantically but about Aang powering his way into changing her feelings. Her romantic feelings were the objective Aang wanted to attain which, well, objectified her feelings. That final kiss at the end felt less like her acting on her actual romantic feelings and more her just giving him his reward. There's a video called "get in losers we're stanning zutara" that (without being cruel to Kataang) shows how a zutara canon romance fits better with the overall themes of the show that dovetails with the points you make here. Like this video addresses historical kinds of considerations and that video addresses plot and theme considerations.
Aang and Katara had such little chemistry, man. It felt very forced. Zutara isnt perfect but they had more interesting interactions than Kataang, which as you pointed out was more of a mothering relationship in many ways
Zutara was the first ship that I really got invested in.14 years later, I’m still going strong! To me, they ARE the ship of all ships. Thank you for this analysis!❤️💙
This was such a great video oh my - I don’t think I’ve ever seen a better discussion that debunks those arguments that well and in a constructive way :D honestly enjoyed every minute of watching it
I’m very glad you felt that way! I tried to be thorough (and even then, I think I missed addressing some things) but it came out alright in the end! Thanks for commenting!
Even after all these years, Zutara remains strong in my heart. I will never let it go, no need for arguments!
The dynamic is too weird, you must be an ignorant westerner
I feel like at the very least even if Zuko and Katara did not end up together initially they still could have come together later on after Aang died. We don’t even know who Zuko married and whether or not she is still alive.
DISCLAIMER: I'm just at the introduction, but already: I'm ok with Kataang, I liked how that progressed and ended up, but yeah... I can totally see also Zutara happening. It's all over the place, really, especially the tension. It was clearly planted, in the series, from season 1 to the end of season 2: the signs were there.
CanI i just say how much I love the recent Zutara revival on YT?!
ZUTARA FOREVER LET’S GO!! I watched atla for the first time last summer and I Immediately started shipping them . They made so much sense narratively and their connection was so beautiful and powerful I genuinely thought zutara and taang were going to be cannon because of the recounting theme of balance and opposite elements plus just everything
Fantastic analysis. Well-researched, nuanced, and conducted with proper sensitivity! You are a prime example of how so many in the Zutara community are not the type to overlook the problematic tropes people often assign to the ship. Instead, you address them head-on and provide solid counterarguments while also demonstrating full historical awareness and genuine concern.
It's interesting, I think one of main the reasons why "Southern Water Tribe Ambassador to the Fire Nation Katara" is such a popular premise in Zutara fanmade content and headcanons is because it effectively solves a lot of these issues: It gives Katara a position of power independent of a romantic relationship with Zuko. It allows her to enter the world of Fire Nation politics while proudly representing her home and culture. It allows for time to pass with Katara getting accustomed to the Fire Nation, rebuffing and debunking the lingering prejudices they may have, and forming an even stronger bond with Zuko as they become older and work together overtime. And it’s a much smoother transition for SWT Ambassador Katara to become Fire Lady or whatever the title is should she and Zuko get married. I think it says a lot about us Zutara shippers and I'm proud to consider myself one.
Thank you for such a wonderful video!
i swear people think zutara is shipping ozai and katara together or something. it’s almost like zuko developed from his ignorance as a fire nation prince, and like he never felt the same way as his father and sister.
With the many ships I like there are only two that I like that are cannon. I feel the cannon ships don't have tension and fuel to drive an alternate story well. I honestly started liking this ship when he had her necklace and started taunted her with it. There was a spark and it built until the last episode where he saved her from Azula's lightning I like the pairing and I am glad you made this video!!
I'm late to this party but I've always been a Zutara shipper so I wanted to comment. Katara was written as a highly independent, strong-willed, fiercely caring person. Zuko was written as a highly independent, strong-willed, fiercely caring person. They're not opposites except with their bending. They both had very traumatic childhoods (Katara's arguably more so, but Zuko Alone shows how emotionally abused Zuko was). They both have a lot of respect for each other as warriors. They just make sense. Aang is a great character, but his relationship with Katara is confused and almost repugnant in the original series. The writers made it that way.
@yanim5425 I said what I said. Not really necessary to be so hostile lol it's an avatar ship, not a political treatise.
I'm with you.
I’m gonna say it: I absolutely despise Maiko. I like Mai on her own but holy crap she could be a complete asshole to Zuko. Struggling with conveying your feelings is one thing, but seeing Zuko-y’know the prince who got challenged by his own damn dad to ritualistic combat, scarred, then banished as the cherry on top-be treated so apathetically by Mai most of the time physically causes me pain.
Multi shippers be like: It’s free real estate
I have been a Zutara gurl since I watched the show as a kid, for all the reasons you guys wonderfully explained and one more, since I haven't seen it yet: the mother-son dynamic is exactly what gives me the ick with this pairing. I love them being friends, partners and growing together. Also developing some kind of romantic relationship...but they didn't invest enough time to turn it around, so she still felt a lot like a mother or big sister to him when they kissed and it made me feel weire and still does...
Whoa. This was an amazing video, very well-constructed and presented. Personally I'd like more ship arguments like some of the comments have suggested, but honestly going by your vids so far I think I'd enjoy anything you create lol. Amazing work, just subbed ❤️❤️
As someone who almost exclusively ships canon couples, i absolutely ADORE zutara, you just can’t deny it, specially when the canon ships for those characters are so weird. I honestly couldn’t even see the chemistry between mai and Zuko and even less with katara and aang. The only ship the writers got right was sukka and you can’t change my mind
Great Video, The only thing I disagree about is the Sokka Yue and Suki portion. Sokka met Suki first. They met in Book 1 Episode 4, The Warriors of Kiyoshi and even shared a kiss (perhaps Sokka's first romantic kiss). I think the allure with Yue was similar to your point about Aang's attraction to Katara, beautiful, kind, powerful etc. Also I believe that they were kindred spirits and Yue fit Sokka's idea of what a mate should be. They were both from the water tribe and had things that they could bond over culturally. Assuming the group stayed few weeks at the North Pole, it would indicate that most of their time together was off screen. Although not witnessed, we could tell that they spent nearly everyday together and perhaps could've had a long and loving relationship if not for her status as princess and being obligated to her arranged engagement, the war, Aang needing to learn the other elements and Zhao killing the moon spirit resulting in Yue's sacrifice. I could see Yue calling off her engagement and the Chief welcoming Sokka as his son in law. The Chief valued Sokka's loyalty and instinct, even charging his with protecting Yue during the siege.
I agree that had not Yue died, Sokka probably have ended up coming back to her over Suki after the war. Not because Yue was "better" but because she was familiar and Sokka would not have found it necessary to explore his options. Yes there would've have been tension between the two but their run-ins were quick and infrequent unlike the long span he had with Yue. I find it interesting that there are no confirmed Sokka decedents (yes I am aware of the fan speculations of Suyin and even Varrick lol). With all that being said, this does not negate the connection he had with Suki back in episode 4. Sokka for the first time in his life began to view women as capable of more than domestic roles. He realized that he had not known much about being a warrior and I believe that his respect for Suki inspired him to be a better leader to team Avatar. The butterfly effect of Yue's death did indeed play a huge role in the Sokka/Suki relationship. We see how his interaction with Suki during the Serpent's Pass episode shift to a protector because Yue died (sacrificially) on his watch in the North Pole. Like you said, Sokka can mourn Yue and still pursue Suki, but that doesn't make Sokka's love for Suki any less because of it.
Maybe this ship could be interesting, but they showed us that girls and boys can be just friends
Very true! Platonic ties can be just as good if not better than romantic ones!
It's also applicable for Kataang. Actually, every ship can be platonic considering the ages of the main cast, and romance was not the main theme.
@@MrDiplomat180 its way more applicable to Kaatang, if you ask me. So many great lessons could have been learned from Katara rejecting Aang, they even set up Aang letting her go, but no, they threw it all away.
@@alinac5512 nah. I think it’s more applicable to Zuko and Katara. It took so long for her to forgive him because he spent all of S1 hunting them down, betrayed her in Ba Sing Se, and helped get Aang shot in the back by Azula.
I think that relationship is better as platonic because it being romantic when only a few months prior, Zuko was actively trying to kill them: that would have been more awkward
@Gabriella Maroney yeah
I didn't mind either ship- both had pros and cons. One of the arguments that made me agree with Kataang was 'Katara would never have been happy being a Fire Nation Empress. She wanted to work with the people and help people, not be tied to a throne". And I agreed because of her bad blood with the Fire Nation and probably not wanting to be surrounded by fire, and because with Aang she could help people. But in retrospect with Korra coming out:
- Zuko did so many amazing things for the Fire Nation, and he didn't do it alone: he worked with his community and children, raising them healthily to be sovereign leaders, to be a Nation worth being proud of. In this sense, Katara and her passion to give people hope and to stand up for what's just, and against opression, she would've been proud to be part of that change. And Zuko helped her get over her bad blood and see the fire nation as people. I'm sure she would've wanted to change their hearts the most.
- With Aang, Katara was the same as she was when she was on her journey with Aang: self sacrificing despite having passions of her own. Her realtionship with Aang didn't really grow or change in terms of dynamics. He followed his dream to rebuild the Air Nation: and Katara wanted to help him, don't get me wrong. But her passions outside of the sphere were somewhat abandoned. She had Aang, they had kids, she raised the kids Aang neglected in his pursuit for rebuilding the Air Nation. I think Katara was much more tied down being the Avatar's wife than an empress in her own right.
I wouldn't have had a problem with Kataang if Aang hadn't kissed Katara after she said "I'm confused."
Oml...this was so....smooth. It hits like all the important aspects of this relationship, while leaving space for other relationships and it's just...perfect!
You did a great job on this video analysis! I am sad that the romantic angle for Zutara was never in the cards for the original animated series, but the fact that this pairing is still discussed over a decade later shows how strong the dynamic (whether you see it as platonic or romantic) between Zuko and Katara is very powerful. 💦❤️🔥
I love this show but katara and aang always felt a bit forced to me toward the end of the show. I feel like it was just one of those instances where the creators wanted to set up their relationship in the beginning (with moments like her realizing aang might be the powerful bender the fortune teller told her she’d be with) but as the story progressed it feels like they forgot to keep building on that set up. By the end of the show they prolly realized “oh shit we wanted these two together, we gotta make that happen now”. A shot in the dark but that’s the vibe I get from it
I love this! People having mature and rational conversations about their disagreements would prevent these shipping wars.
Furthermore, I agree with all of your points and you did a great job of presenting them!❤️
I went and theorized and analyzed about Aang's new partner should Zutara ever come to be. I've studied and experimented this rare and unlikely pairing called Azulaang (Azula x Aang) This was difficult to decipher. I found about Aaron Ehasz tweet about giving Azula a redemption arc. Longer and far more complicated then Zuko's. She had not bottomed by the end of season 3. She had further to go. At the deepest moment of her own abyss. She finds Zuko. He puts everything he learned from Iroh to the test and pass them down to Azula.
How does Aang come in despite Azula zapping him? Well. In the shipping wiki, fans see Azulaang as Azula reforming as a result of Aang but I don't think it'd be that easy and that one sided. Aang would have to grow as well as Azula. Azulaang, in hindsight, is more complicated, more risky, more mature and more seductive then Zutara and neither Aang nor Zuko can force Azula to change, they need to be patient with her, show her what her options are and let her mostly learn and grow on her own. She slowly growing and changing now as we speak as a result of Zuko.
Just as many believe Zutara brings Zuko and Katara's character development in full circle. Azulaang has the potential of both Azula and Aang's character developments coming in full circle too. Here's a little mechanic I came up with. Remember that scene in the swamp where Aang uses energybending to track down Appa? He does the same to Azula under Zuko's request but gets more then what he bargained for. Due to Azula being a descendant of Aang's past life Roku. Aang enters Azula's mind and he sees and learns all of her memories, experience, wisdom, skills, knowledge and perspective. This leaves a side-effect. Aang and Azula's spirits slowly develop a close, strong and intimate bond which gets them to understand and know each other on a spiritual level.
I see Azulaang having some parallels to Korrasami as well as Zutara. Mostly on how it's built-up. How Bryke wanted to approach Korrasami is that they wanted to show that Korra doesn't have to get with Asami. They used that mentality on Kataang but even they admit that Kataang was a forced one. The approach for Zutara and Azulaang can be much similar. Azula and Aang don't "have" to get together, Zuko and Katara don't "have" to get together. We let the chemistries and the benefits that could await for them if they do get together speak for themselves. I've read several Azulaang AUs Aang deciding to be a Guru and gets Azula to open her chakras (their spirit bond would be a big help with that) and about team avatar going separate ways and each finding their own committed careers (but still have contact with each other and have the time to visit each other) while Aang and Azula are boundless freelancers. They travel together, help the world together, ride together, spar together, go on adventures together, relax together and have fun together. Just the two of them.
When I first watched the show ( as a child mind you), I definitely sensed a passion between them. But I didn’t interpret that passion as romantic love. I liked to label them as “heart mates”. They both shared the heart ache of a broken family, and losing their childhood innocence. Both Zuko and Katara were each other’s key to opening and healing that wound within themselves.
This video is very well done! I agree with a lot of what you said and think you did a good job of getting your points across. I also like your humor, lol, @ made me laugh
Aang should have been with one of the Kioshi island girls or met someone later Expanded Universe Luke Skywalker style. Katara should have been like a big sister figure for him.
Zutara is OTP.
Like...it was written that way. They have chemistry. Katara goes with Zuko to fight Azula and Zuko is literally ready to die for her. How is this a controversy?
Like I get the historical arguments you are making here, but the text itself, it is just there for anyone who is watching the show.
I never liked Aang and Katara. Not as a kid, not rewatching the show as an early adult and not rewatching it again with the new interest in the show from the Netflix release. It never seemed right.
Again, Zutara is OTP.
Also also, as a person from Powhatan county, Virginia, thank you for pronouncing Powhatan correctly.
PS “I’ll save you from the pirates” is hot and nobody will ever make me feel differently.
YES... i love the line, “i’ll save you from the pirate.” THAT LINE WAS DAMN CUTE AND IF SOMEONE SAID THAT TO ME, I WOULD DIE HAPPILY
Thank you for this video! Helps me get some closure on the fact they didn't end up together.
I can't wait to see this chanel grow. Very good analysis and arguments
A 12 y/o guy with a 14 y/o girl always seemed odd to me, as a 14 y/o girl. I know in my mind I would never be attracted to a 12 y/o under any circumstances, especially one I'm a mother figure to. A 12 y/o boy is thinking about games and pranks while a 14y/o girl has been in puberty for most likely 1, and possibly 2 years. 12 is a child and 14 is a teen, even a young adult. A 12 y/o girl with a 14 y/o guy sounds gross, right? So why not the other way around. Especially when we know that guys develop and hit puberty much older than girls. Thats why in patriarcy its more socially acceptable if a guy is older than a girl. I understand that Aang is more mature due to being the avatar but I always felt like due to aangs childishness in the first season, what he felt for katara was a childish crush on a caring figure. And it makes me especially uneasy knowing she was a mother figure for him. Something about that statement makes the power dynamic very odd. Aang was trapped in an iceberg while katara was looking after her older brother. She is much more emotionally mature than aang at the start. While I do like their relationship, as I grow older I've come to realize that their dynamic feels off and Zuko, a 16 y/o with similar traumas to Katara, that provides support and companionship for her without her having to take care of him in a motherly fashion makes much more sense for her and I argue would even be healthier. Im the oldest of 3 siblings and the idea of being in a relationship with a guy same age as my brother, who is looking up to me as a nurturing figure genuinely triggers me. So Zutara it is.
@@Mr.YasQueen "A 12 y/o girl with a 14 y/o guy sounds gross, right? So why not the other way around. " I think you didn't actually hear the point I was trying to make. They are children, they know very little about romantic love and they aren't mentally developed enough. Women being into older "fatherly" men is a thing, but again: WOMEN. Not 14 year old girls. Men are also into older motherly women, the MILF meme is also a thing. But these are MEN, not 12 y/o boys. I wouldn't date a 12 y/o child as a 14 y/o teenager because it feels like there is a clear mental difference between us. This has nothing to do with genders being reversed, or patriarchal opinions, I only used that to give an example to my point. But ig youll hold on to anything to prove your point. Maybe ur just triggered by the word patriarchy. When people say we shouldn't judge love, does a relationship between 20 year old man and a 14 year old girl count in thet statement? No. There are situations where we judge RELATIONSHIPS (not love) and we judge them rightfully. If they were both adults, I wouldn't give a fuck. I would still ship Zutara but it would simply be because I enjoy their chemistry. You acting like they are both full consenting adults, and using a daddy kink as an example on a childrens love story is problematic. Im not only talking about Katara, I also think Aang would be happier in a relationship with someone his own maturity level, he will struggle to keep up with Katara. I hope I made my point clear, and you don't misunderstand me this time.
zutaratards are wild, keep talking about urself like u tryin date zuko i guess a girl almost getting clapped several times is ok as long as he changes lmao cope and seethe l + ratio
@@DrOttoOctavius-ge1yu Go crawl back to 4chan, incel
No because I will die shipping Zutara period.
A shame i found it so late but damn what a great video. Actually changed my mind on this romance entirely, well done
Very interesting video, thanks for sharing! This community is amazing.
Tbh a lot of the people who complain about Zutara being bad because it’s “racist” or “colonialist” ship Zukka so I don’t even care for those arguments. It’s completely hypocritical. It is just more ammo for ship wars and not done out of genuine concern for decolonization. I don’t see how complaining about a cartoon materially benefits colonized people anyway. It’s petty nonsense for privileged teenagers.
Kataang isnt free from being toxic though, Aang legitimately kissed Katara without consent and kept forcing his feelings onto her, acted as if she belonged to him (AKA nodding when it was said Katara was the “Avatar’s girl”) barely pays her any mind throughout the show apart from when it’s about his feelings and when it’s about him (which doesn’t count.)
Aang on screen isn’t shown to do anything for Katara out of his own care and love for her that actually benefits herself or her character. Others characters are actually the ones shown doing that for her way more than Aang who is her canonical love interest.
She’s always the one bringing more to the table by handling his issues, coddling, teaching, comforting, encouraging, understanding, and listening to him and even Aang admits that she mothers everyone in the group himself included. Aang isn’t even shown helping out Katara with basic day to day chores such as “cooking, cleaning, setting up camp, shopping for groceries, etc.” He’s just there either playing or trying to impress others while she’s sitting in the back ready to serve him on any go.
I’m sorry but to me Kataang always felt like it was for Aang rather than Katara in the classic “hero gets the girl” type storybook ending, and even when it’s shippers and supporters question why some want katara to be with anothet option they curb the argument into Aang’s favour by saying “it would break his heart if he didn’t get Katara” again making it about him and not taking into consideration of the girl’s feelings.
I’ve heard from a lot of people that Bryke purposely forced a Kataang (despite that it’s something they always wanted and planned.) - ending and made Katara choose Aang cause they were self projecting onto their MC and wanted the girl for themselves… and that makes me even more uncomfortable with the pair cause it reeks of misogyny and brings us back 4000 generations where women were expected to owe men their feelings cause he was “kind” to her.
I couldnt have said it any better, mate.
Its very true, that it has always been about Aang, and how he feels and what he thought, to the point where he is just stupidly selfish. Remember at the end of Book 1, where Katara was about to fight Pakku and Aang said, "you dont have to do this FOR ME", like dude, who ever said that this was about you???
Katara is getting punished for not liking Aang back, aka for example, in the Fortuneteller episode, where the girl Meng insults Katara behind her back, because Aang likes her - AGAIN, basically indirectly giving Aang the benefit of the doubt for his behavior and Katara getting the short end of the stick.
Aang was even so selfish to the point where he stopped his Avatarstate training because he wanted to go "save her" - Katara absolutely wouldnt have wanted that, since, well, this decision ultimately ended up for Ba Sing Se to fall and if Katara wouldnt have had the magical spirit water from the Oasis on the Northpole, Aang would have just died for that selfishness.
Aang even lashed out on multiple occassions towards Katara, like for example in the desert episode, where he randomly shouts at her, and JUST HER, with "what did you do for the group???" and never apologizing for that.
The funny part about this is thou, was it ever shown/said that Roku had to give up the love of his life in order to master the avatar state? he clearly had a wife AND was able to fully control it. What does that tell us? That his "love" for Katara was nothing more than a one-sided, childish crush he needed to let go of.
About ur last paragraph: yes, this is very true. If you have watched the "Book 4 incident" from the comic con, read the horrible comics and watched Korra, you will clearly see that this is exactly what they did. Katara gets reduced to his trophy and just pretty girlfriend who protects him all the time and agrees with everything he says and does - eventually resulting in Katara living completely alone and abandoned in the Southern Watertribe, noone ever remembers her anymore and its just about AANG and how HE saved the world and what great things HE did and what a big ass statue HE has in Republic city.
Even so many years after ATLA, it is never about what Katara thinks, feels, does. It has always been about Aang. So tragic.
@@anfani6839 I’d like to see kataang shippers defend those last two sentence of yours cuz they’re facts
@@theway6763 Kataangers always defend themselves with "but they are canon and Katara loved Aang and never Zuko!" which only implies for me that if Kataang hadnt been canon, barely anyone would ship them
@@anfani6839 I don't believe they reduced katara in the comics, like she has almost no political participation, and her biggest characteristic is sticking her nose where it's not called
@@danielalaiz419 She is basically reduced to Aangs loving trophy wife, where shes constantly called "The avatars first girlfriend", even wants to be constantly introduced as "the avatars girlfriend" and is completely ok with Aang neglecting her and even gets "punished" by the writing for feeling that way, aka feeling guilty when shes feeling jealous over it etc. etc.
Thats not the Katara that I've learned to love in ATLA
This was uploaded on my bday!
I recommend sneezy reviews' zutara vids
I enjoyed this so much!
First off, I want to say thank you for being considerate towards the "other side." I'm a Zutara fan, but as someone who's part of several marginalized classes, I did sympathize with people who viewed Zutara as "Coloniser x Colonized". Poorly written romances are chock full of them. Not to mention a lot of enemies-to-lovers relationships misinterpret what makes the trope compelling, and only end up writing an "Abuser x Victim" narrative. So I want to thank you for being understanding towards the crowd of people that were concerned about Zutara possibly repeating those very harmful tropes. A lot of Zutarans(?) lump "concerned marginalized fans" with "hateful antis" together, when they're really not, and the former deserves to be talked to with care.
That said, I always felt like the argument "Zutara is a Colonizer x Colonized pairing" was skewed because it completely removes all development and personality from the characters involved. Yes, Katara belongs to an oppressed class and Zuko belongs to that of an oppressor. HOWEVER, Zuko's entire journey is him unlearning the propaganda and colonialism of his forefathers, and using his privilege to mend the chaos his bloodline has reaped on the world. He quite literally BECOMES a refugee after the amount of times the Fire Nation has wronged him, and after being welcomed back, flees, vowing to not return until he can support the victimized into overthrowing the cruelty of his own family. Seeing Zutara as nothing more than "Colonizer x Colonized" does a disservice to BOTH characters involved and paints them as nothing more than tropes when they're so much more. (Nevermind that it makes fans of Zuko x Sokka, Zuko x Suki, Zuko x Song, Katara x Azula, Aang x Azula, and Sokka x Azula look like massive hypocrites. And yes, I've seen people ship all those Azula pairings before lol)
In regards to Kataang, I actually quite like them! I genuinely don't have a problem with either Zutara or Kataang (which is an unpopular neutral stance from what I've seen in the fanbase). I see the pros and cons of either pairings, but I prefer Zutara to Kataang in most areas, a lot of which you've named. The writing behind Zutara (as coincidental as it was) has more "pros" than the writing behind Kataang does. At least, in my opinion.
As I said, I don't hold any hate towards Kataang, however:
**1)** It was pretty one-sided. Now, a pairing being focused on one half of a couple isn't inherently bad in a series like this. Just take a look at Sokka x Suki. Sokka is a main protagonist whereas Suki is a reoccurring character. We undoubtedly see more of Sokka's POV of their relationship than we do Suki's. However, when they ARE together, it's clear Suki is just as into him as he is into her (if not _more_ given she made the first move!) In comparison, Kataang are both main characters, and yet a lot of the romance is focused on Aang's POV with Katara's being tacked on later. I mean "The Fortune Teller" is pretty much a microcosm of their romantic development throughout the entire series. With 95% Aang being head over heels for Katara, Katara minding her own business, and then Katara "remembering" he's a romance option in the remaining 5%.
**2)** Katara was not only the first girl Aang's ever met, but she was also the very first PERSON he's ever met that wasn't part of his upbringing. A lot of people view this point as "creepy" or "Twilight-esque imprinting" and paint Katara as the wronged party. I actually think, under this lens, Aang is the one who deserves more of the sympathy. He deserves and SHOULD'VE been given the freedom to have a life and love outside of the first people he's ever met. The episode "Bato of the Water Tribe" emphasizes that the main gang are the ONLY people Aang has in his entire life post-ice berg. He has literally NO ONE ELSE! It's tragically restrictive. So while I wouldn't say it's problematic, I do feel it's _isolating_ in that Aang only gets with the first girl he came across. Had the series explored Aang possibly having a crush on someone else (Meng would've been perfect), and later getting with Katara, then I think that would've been much healthier in hindsight.
But anyways, before I make this comment any longer, thanks for this video! I'll probably show it to a few friends later. This was very insightful!
I don’t ship kataang but if you do I think that’s great for you.
I think the shipping wars are super toxic, I was told I should kill myself for shipping zutara which is totally wrong.
So if you ship something I don’t, I’m totally cool with that. But if you come at me, I will be ready to go to war
I know how you feel. My friend was sent a death threat for shipping Zutara. And Kataang fans think it's just Zutarians who are toxic like bro-?
@@rainyday2547 I mean they're toxicity from both sides regardless but . But majority of the times it's usually zutura that more toxic than kataang fans .
I mean in my experience it’s the other way around.
If it's one shipping that makes 100% sense, it's definitely Zuko x Katara, their chemistry is wayyyyy too obvious.
This is great analysis ❤🎉 thank you
BTW you made a really good video, I love these kinds of vids, keep it 😊
The show could’ve been taken to another level if they had an episode or two where Aang goes through the motions to finally realizing that his feelings for Katara are misplaced and simply imprinted on her as a baby does its mother when it’s released from the womb (or eggshell). I think a perfect example is the episode where the monk is helping him with the his chakras + detachment. Then the show would’ve had the space to make zuko and Katara endgame while Aang goes off to continue to mature on his own as he realizes he’s got 100 years of growing up and self-discovery to catch up on after defeating Ozai. It would’ve also been amazing to see him end up with a fire or earth bender/descendant.
To preface: I genuinely find shipping to be more trouble than it's worth, and I actively expect the worst from anyone that is interested in shipping (due to very negative personal experiences with such people), so I never ship anything myself.. that said, this is one of the only ships that I not only thought made absolute sense, but that I was genuinely happy about. Some 14 years ago I last watched this show, and still, I find this relationship to be one of the most profound I've ever witnessed. I mourn that this ship never sailed.
Edit: I had no idea the arguments others had against the ship were so politically motivated.. (sigh) the irony of dividing a potential love (and severing the possibility for a story who's message could breed love) for the sake of reminding others' of their class, is ultimately justifying classism through action. There's no morality to be found here, just more division.
I think the only reson I can justify Katara staying with Aaang in my mind is her sense of responsability. She looks like the kind of person that would marry the avatar to give him a safe space. It's not that she doesn't love him, but he'll always feel more like a friend.
The fact this video came out a day after mine! This would of been good reference, haha
Such a well put together video and exploring both sides of the coin really puts it in perspective
Amazing video! Definitely subbing
This was E X C E L L E N T. Thank you.
i loved this video, and i do agree with your points! however i just have one correction (which isnt a correction but more how i see it). around the minute 14:07 you say that azula was willing to kill her friends. i believe that azula didn’t want to kill them. if she did, she would have just told the guards to do so: instead, she sent them to prison. still not a pleasant experience, but had she wanted them dead, they would be dead.
Your Avatar videos are amazing. MORE!
To me Kataang was the worst part of ATLA. It just felt so forced and unnecessary, and not once did any romantic scenes between them come off as natural or believable to me. It was like every once in a while they would remember that Katara was not supposed to be a mother figure and try to force the narrative that she had some kind of romantic interest in him, but it just made me cringe and feel very uncomfortable.
I think it made sense that Aang might have a crush and that he would imprint on her to an almost creepy degree, but with that being said it never made sense for Katara to return those feelings when she very clearly viewed him as a child to take care of and not as an equal partner. Aang also never seemed to actually be in love with Katara herself but more so his not very accurate and overly idealised picture of her, which made narrative sense but didn’t make me root for them to get together.
If Kataang was the pairing they wanted to make endgame they certainly failed to build up their relationship in a way where it felt like they made sense to me. I wish they would have actually shown Aang actually getting to know, understand and love the REAL Katara, and her getting to see him be less of a kid and starting to feel differently about him so it would make sense when they got together in the end. Instead they just ruined the ending for me where the romances were concerned 😂
Yep it feels like if Finn and pb dated like no man
@@ThiccFurryBoi34exactly. That’s why I feel if the show finished just a few years later kataang might not have happened.
You just got a new sub Lmaooo
Thanks so much! Welcome!
Rooting for Aang and Katara was what it meant to be a kid. Growing up is when you start to root for Zuko and Katara.
Thank you for putting Zutara thoughts to words
you were so right for this