Hey hey. For some reason my replies aren't posting on your pinned comment. But hey, thanks for the kind words about my channel and big ups to you for educating people and putting great content out there. You took the feedback like a pro. I really like your videos, please keep up the great work. All the best!
Nice to see you promoting some of Luca's ideas here. He's an incredible engineer. One important distinction to make is that the attack and release controls in Pro-L2, Maximizer, DMG Limitless, and most other modern limiters actually have very little to do with distortion. All modern limiters have a fast time scale aspect (the "transient" stage) and a slow time scale aspect (the "dynamics" stage). The dynamics aspect is the only one being controlled by attack and release. It can be thought of more like a compressor, but it doesn't operate fast enough to catch transients because any amount of delayed attack would never hold the hard ceiling required by limiting. This is something I totally got wrong myself, and had to wrap my head around by talking with the developers who make limiters. I thought my knowledge of setting compressors with attack and release to "catch transients" also applied to limiters, but I was mistaken - it doesn't work like that. The fast time scale transient phase is controlled by one parameter: lookahead. Audio is delayed by the lookahead amount, allowing the limiter to react with gain reduction as smoothly as possible in advance of the actual transient occurring and is thus able to hold a hard ceiling. Fast changes to a waveform cause distortion, not smooth ones. If you have lookahead set to less than 0.2 ms, then you start to get waveshaping, which induces distortion just like a clipper does. In modern limiters, in their transient / fast stage, the lookahead time sets the amount of time for the limiter to engage to full gain reduction, and it also typically sets the exact same time for the limiter to recover. However there's an additional twist. If a signal is fluttering around the threshold, then the limiter will be creating envelope modulation distortion by constantly switching between gain reduction and gain recovery, so there is an additional hidden aspect which is hold. The hold time will typically also be equivalent to the lookahead and prevents a limiter from creating unnecessary distortion and is also the reason why a very fast acting limiter (0ms lookahead) can often sound different than a hard clipper - which has no "hold" setting. It's all about lookahead time here and has little or nothing to do with the front panel attack and release times as those are only mapped to the slow dynamics stage. They don't catch transients at all. That's what the transient stage does. In fact, if you completely disable the dynamics section by turning attack to maximum and release to minimum, you will see you still have full suppression of transients and you still have limiting as the transient stage is now doing all the work. But now it's functioning more like a clipper (in fact, if you engage the "Practically Clipping" preset, you'll see these exact settings). If you check the Pro-L2 section about lookhead you'll see some info about this, and if you reach out to their team they're always happy to chat and share details about the design of the plugin (chat with Ralph or Floris). Anyways, just trying to be helpful and share some information I had to learn the hard way along my engineering journey. Hopefully you find it useful. You have a great channel. All the best.
This is an exceptional comment-thank you for taking the time to write it! Like you, I also mistook a limiter’s attack and release controls for those of a compressor. I originally had a pinned comment on this video about Pro-L’s attack and release controls (from its manual), but your explanation is so much better that I’ve pinned it instead! Thank you for your kind words, too. My channel, like so many more, is built on the wealth of information you and others have shared over the years. You’re one of the few OG channels left. Thank you for everything you’ve done for us producers 🙏
From FabFilter's Pro-L 2 Manual: "Apart from the fast 'transient' stage, the limiter has a slower 'release' envelope stage that responds to the average dynamics of the incoming audio. The Attack and Release knobs control how quickly and heavily the release stage sets in. Shorter attack times will allow the release stage to set in sooner; longer release times will cause it to have more effect. "In general, short attack times and long release times are safer and cleaner, but they can also cause pumping and reduce clarity. On the other hand, long attack times and short release times can increase apparent loudness and presence, but at the expense of possible distortion."
I have a question on the output gain ceiling. When i set the ceiling to -1db in fabfilter L2 on the master chain with on the end of the masterchain bus Voxengo Span. And i check with span. Is see the DbTP meter in span overshooting the ceiling. So fi -0.7db. How is this possible? A ceiling will clip off all transients or not? My clarity m stereo also reads the overshoot. Is there a clear explanation for this? In fabfilter it say ceiling is the maximum setting the signal may make… very confusing, i thought the ceiling was like a brick wall where nothing gets passed? Also i add in another limiter like ozone maximizer and set thet to -1db too, it overshoots too, dbtp is set to on and -1db. So its engaged. I simply don’t get it. Thanks for your review 🫶
It could be inter-sample peaks or a difference between true peaks and sample peaks (with each plug-in measuring different elements). Do you have true peak limiting enabled in Pro-L?
@@BeatsbyVanityyes TP = On of course. But DB TruePeak is True peak right. I was of the opinion that a ceiling is a ceiling. But this does not seem to be the case. Are there limiters of which the output gain ceiling is fixed, not letting through any transient? Even if i put a standard clip before L2 it has no effect, still the -1dbtp is overshot
maybe if he took something and calmed down. Sounds similar but i don`t think its him. The narrator in this video did not say that its all a scam after all
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey hey. For some reason my replies aren't posting on your pinned comment. But hey, thanks for the kind words about my channel and big ups to you for educating people and putting great content out there. You took the feedback like a pro. I really like your videos, please keep up the great work. All the best!
Nice to see you promoting some of Luca's ideas here. He's an incredible engineer. One important distinction to make is that the attack and release controls in Pro-L2, Maximizer, DMG Limitless, and most other modern limiters actually have very little to do with distortion. All modern limiters have a fast time scale aspect (the "transient" stage) and a slow time scale aspect (the "dynamics" stage). The dynamics aspect is the only one being controlled by attack and release. It can be thought of more like a compressor, but it doesn't operate fast enough to catch transients because any amount of delayed attack would never hold the hard ceiling required by limiting.
This is something I totally got wrong myself, and had to wrap my head around by talking with the developers who make limiters. I thought my knowledge of setting compressors with attack and release to "catch transients" also applied to limiters, but I was mistaken - it doesn't work like that.
The fast time scale transient phase is controlled by one parameter: lookahead. Audio is delayed by the lookahead amount, allowing the limiter to react with gain reduction as smoothly as possible in advance of the actual transient occurring and is thus able to hold a hard ceiling. Fast changes to a waveform cause distortion, not smooth ones. If you have lookahead set to less than 0.2 ms, then you start to get waveshaping, which induces distortion just like a clipper does.
In modern limiters, in their transient / fast stage, the lookahead time sets the amount of time for the limiter to engage to full gain reduction, and it also typically sets the exact same time for the limiter to recover. However there's an additional twist. If a signal is fluttering around the threshold, then the limiter will be creating envelope modulation distortion by constantly switching between gain reduction and gain recovery, so there is an additional hidden aspect which is hold. The hold time will typically also be equivalent to the lookahead and prevents a limiter from creating unnecessary distortion and is also the reason why a very fast acting limiter (0ms lookahead) can often sound different than a hard clipper - which has no "hold" setting.
It's all about lookahead time here and has little or nothing to do with the front panel attack and release times as those are only mapped to the slow dynamics stage. They don't catch transients at all. That's what the transient stage does. In fact, if you completely disable the dynamics section by turning attack to maximum and release to minimum, you will see you still have full suppression of transients and you still have limiting as the transient stage is now doing all the work. But now it's functioning more like a clipper (in fact, if you engage the "Practically Clipping" preset, you'll see these exact settings).
If you check the Pro-L2 section about lookhead you'll see some info about this, and if you reach out to their team they're always happy to chat and share details about the design of the plugin (chat with Ralph or Floris). Anyways, just trying to be helpful and share some information I had to learn the hard way along my engineering journey. Hopefully you find it useful. You have a great channel. All the best.
This is an exceptional comment-thank you for taking the time to write it! Like you, I also mistook a limiter’s attack and release controls for those of a compressor. I originally had a pinned comment on this video about Pro-L’s attack and release controls (from its manual), but your explanation is so much better that I’ve pinned it instead!
Thank you for your kind words, too. My channel, like so many more, is built on the wealth of information you and others have shared over the years. You’re one of the few OG channels left. Thank you for everything you’ve done for us producers 🙏
From FabFilter's Pro-L 2 Manual:
"Apart from the fast 'transient' stage, the limiter has a slower 'release' envelope stage that responds to the average dynamics of the incoming audio. The Attack and Release knobs control how quickly and heavily the release stage sets in. Shorter attack times will allow the release stage to set in sooner; longer release times will cause it to have more effect.
"In general, short attack times and long release times are safer and cleaner, but they can also cause pumping and reduce clarity. On the other hand, long attack times and short release times can increase apparent loudness and presence, but at the expense of possible distortion."
I have a question on the output gain ceiling. When i set the ceiling to -1db in fabfilter L2 on the master chain with on the end of the masterchain bus Voxengo Span. And i check with span. Is see the DbTP meter in span overshooting the ceiling. So fi -0.7db. How is this possible? A ceiling will clip off all transients or not? My clarity m stereo also reads the overshoot. Is there a clear explanation for this? In fabfilter it say ceiling is the maximum setting the signal may make… very confusing, i thought the ceiling was like a brick wall where nothing gets passed? Also i add in another limiter like ozone maximizer and set thet to -1db too, it overshoots too, dbtp is set to on and -1db. So its engaged. I simply don’t get it. Thanks for your review 🫶
It could be inter-sample peaks or a difference between true peaks and sample peaks (with each plug-in measuring different elements). Do you have true peak limiting enabled in Pro-L?
@@BeatsbyVanityyes TP = On of course. But DB TruePeak is True peak right. I was of the opinion that a ceiling is a ceiling. But this does not seem to be the case. Are there limiters of which the output gain ceiling is fixed, not letting through any transient? Even if i put a standard clip before L2 it has no effect, still the -1dbtp is overshot
Are you APMastering? Your voice is very similar
maybe if he took something and calmed down. Sounds similar but i don`t think its him. The narrator in this video did not say
that its all a scam after all
Lol, I've been getting this comment a lot lately. But no, APMastering is a fellow Brit, perhaps from a similar area as me, but I don't know him!
@@BeatsbyVanity its totally funny I guess your area have this particular tone lmao 😂. Well good videos 😎
@@saardean4481 yes I noticed this too. Made me hesitant but well
@@saardean4481 😂