2Box Drumit 5 Mk 2 A2E drum triggers - alternative design, no cones HD 1080p
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- Опубліковано 27 тра 2024
- In this video I'm showing you another way to make A2E (acoustic to electronic) drum triggers which will let you play your acoustic kit through an electronic drum module. The generally recommended method uses foam cones sitting on top of piezo sensors. I tried this with my first 2Box module but couldn't get it to work. This is a different solution which in my view is easier, is just as sensitive to drum strokes (maybe more so) and provides a greater degree of trigger isolation.
I'm using a 2Box Drumit 5 Mk2 module which has a universal trigger interface meaning it works with drum pads and cymbals from most manufacturers as well as DIY triggers.
2box-drums.com/products/drumi...
The mesh drum heads I use are Jobeky Prestige (triple ply on the snare and double ply on the toms) which are in my opinion fantastic quality, durable and trigger beautifully.
jobekydrums.co.uk/product-cat...
I hope you find it useful, please feel free to ask questions, I'll answer as soon as I'm able to do so. - Фільми й анімація
Saya dari Indonesia. Sangat berterimakasih kepada anda telah mengajari saya lewat video ini. Semoga hari-hari anda diliputi keberuntugan.
I absolutely enjoyed this video! Really useful! It gives a lot of advantages; First for the aesthetics reason! Then for recording on midi! Then no noise pollution! This is the top 🔝
Thank You for the Good Instruction,
Fantastic video. Many thanks!!
You’re welcome. Glad you liked it Mikael.
Thanks for the tutorial! Really generous and clear.
Great job!!!
Great video thanks 🙏🏼 did you use a bigger Piezo for the kick?
@@bernovanderwal Yes I did, I think it was 35mm diameter. It required some damping beneath the mesh at the beater contact point and a bit of experimentation to find the right position for the piezo.
@@timscott3071 thanks! I’m experimenting right now and the 27mm is not working properly. I’d saw this bigger version in your video and ordered a 35mm allready! Also a foam cilinder of 15cm with and 10cm depth to dampen. Hope this will work 🤞 nice to experiment and your video is helpful! I’ll try the direct contact with my snare because the signal is to weak now with a piezo sandwich
@@bernovanderwal What problem are you having with the bass drum Berno? I might be able to make a suggestion if you tell me the problem.
This was certainly the one which took longest to sort out for me. I think the distance between the beater contact point and the piezo is about 15cm. Too close and there was double triggering, too far and it didn’t pick up all the hits. I also had to increase the ‘MASK’ value in the 2Box module to avoid double triggering.
@@timscott3071 thanks. It’s giving double triggers most of the time or no trigger at all. But it has to do with the connection (tp loose) and I think I have to damp it after the meshead….
Very good, man!
Great stuff Tim, thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for the feedback.
@@timscott3071 you're welcome. I have a TD-27 but I want to do an A2E set. I bought a Pearl Ryhthm Traveler kit for this, thought it might be perfect. Also have a Stencil kit from the 60/70's I am considering with a 20/12/16 which looks much cooler but a tad bigger. But I really like this method. Much more economical and easy to repair.
Sounds good.
My only experience is with a 2Box drum module and as I've hopefully shown this design works really well. I'd be very interested to hear if it also works with Roland modules; I hope so, please update me with your experience if you have a go.
I seem to remember reading a long time ago that you may need to reverse the red/black piezo wires when connecting to the jack socket with Roland. So bear this in mind if you have any problems. It's also possible that the signal might be a bit hot so your threshold and sensitivity settings could need some adjustments.
Good luck! Cheers.
@@timscott3071 thanks for that extra info. It's on the back burner but in the plan for sure.
This was helpful. I am using Roland module and starting tp experiment. I have the cone set up on the snare drum but I think I a going to try your method por the toms. Appreciate your thoughtful review.
Thanks jdb. Let me know how you get on. You might need to turn down some of the module settings as the triggers are very sensitive. Good luck!
Hi jdb, just wondering if you did manage to do your toms and how you got on?
Nice job! thx
Thank you.
Very Useful ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐!! Thanks.
You're welcome. Glad it was helpful!
I’m intrigued by the piezo being placed like this. All drums I’ve seen have the foam making contact with the mesh head.
As mentioned in the notes at the top, I couldn't get the cone method to work. Admittedly my cones were DIY as well. This is actually the design used by 2Box for their own mesh heads. So it's not new. I find it gives fantastic sensitivity and the isolation of the piezo is far better than than the cone method as there's 12mm of neoprene foam between it and the rest of the drum.
Obviously cones work very well otherwise people wouldn't use that design. This also works!
Thanks for your interest.
Great video. Is there a solution for the snare beeing 3 zone witj just 2 piezos using 2box?
I solved it by using a piezo piezo switch solution but curious about other ways to do it
I just converted my 66 Ludwigs to ekit. My Roland td20 is nice but this conversion kit is way funner to play and looks amazing.
Sounds like a great project John. Did you use this method for your triggers?
I didnt see your video til after I did my conversion. I have some piezos I can experiment with though. I just made my own cowbell with one.
Really fun making triggers.
Great video - I happen to have a jobecky snare, but the module seems to double trigger and not sense many ghost notes and I cant find settings that correct this - any help would be appreciated!
What module are you using PEP?
With respect, I think you’ve misunderstood the design Gaston.
At first I couldn’t understand what you meant but I’m guessing you think damage could occur if the piezo is hit directly with a stick? Well that’s never going to happen as I’ve positioned on the side of the drum close to me, it’s nowhere near the hitting zone. As for reliability, I’ve had no failures at all so it is lasting and I’m confident it will continue to last.
Cheers.
Tom, thank you for this video. I love 2box and plan on getting the 5mk2. your video makes this a reality. Can you tell me the dimentions of the L-Brackets. Thanks in advance. John
No problem John. The aluminium top piece is made from some L section measuring 38 x 15mm and it’s cut 30mm wide. The narrow stainless steel bit is a 15mm wide strip, about 60mm vertical and 40mm horizontal. You could make these in one piece it’s just that I decided to do it in 2 as I had the material available.
The dimensions will depend on the thickness of the foam, the diameter of your piezo and the distance your lug screws are below the bearing edge. The aim is to get the piezo sitting about 1-2mm above the level of the bearing edge so the mesh makes contact and pushes it down a little.
It would be really to hear from you (or anyone!) who has actually tried this method. I’d love to know how people have got on with it.
Excellent video and some great ideas here for someone about to embark on an A2E journey, thanks!
The 2box external triggers appear to be of a similar design with the piezo directly contacting the drum head, as do the red ddrum triggers (albeit under a piece of tape).
Something that struck me as different however was the rim piezo - it contacts nothing (nothing being directly hit).
I assume this is intentional and that it's perhaps preferential as it picks-up a weakened/softer attack through the mounting bracket (less false triggers)?
Apologies if I missed the explanation in the video.
Cheers
Yes that's exactly right. The rim trigger works by picking up a vibration from the shell. So hitting the rim will do it or even the shell itself. It's extremely sensitive when you hit the rim close to the trigger but less so further away. So you do get a dynamic response.
As for the head triggers, you're right it's pretty much exactly how 2Box do it. That's where I got the idea from. For me one of the best aspects is the perfect isolation from the shell that the foam provides. This is not the case with foam cones where the piezo is isolated more from the head than it is from the shell.
Works for me anyway. Thanks for your interest and comment 👍
@@timscott3071 thanks for the reply.
My query is more so to the location of your rim piezo. It seems to be located in "mid-air" inside the drum, rather than being mounted directly onto the shell itself - is this something you experimented with?
In either case I'm sure the piezo is being activated, just interested to know if there's a sensitivity and/or performance gain to be made one way or the other.
Cheers
@@theguitarprodotcomdotau Yes it’s attached with thin double sided tape to a steel ‘L’ bracket which fits under a lug screw. So it’s not directly touching the shell but there’s a rigid connection to the shell without any foam. As you say it’s in mid air.
Another way could be to get a piece of flat steel with a hole in one end, stick the piezo on the plate, put a lug screw through the hole and bridge it against the shell. I’m sure that would work well and may well be more sensitive.
@@timscott3071 Gotcha, thanks.
I've only inspected the ddrums personally, the "rim trigger" on their dual-zone snare trigger is simply a piezo stuck to the inner wall of the unit.
I like your double-stick approach, simple, and I feel like that would be adequate isolation from the shell mounting hardware (crosstalk etc).
Proof is in the pudding, looks like your kit performs better than my Roland TD-10 with PD-100/120 pads.
@@theguitarprodotcomdotau Yes you could certainly stick a piezo directly onto the shell as long as you can find something flat, piezos definitely don’t like being bent!
Very interesting and very useful mate, I was wondering though..do you feel the location of the peizo not being central on the head in any way lessens the trigger sensitivity or ? And i assume you purposely don't hit the sensor area in case you damage or dislodge the piezo assembly? Thanks
Hi Rob. No I don’t think the location of the piezo reduces trigger sensitivity at all, the only loss is positional sensing if your module supports that. Mine doesn’t. I find the dynamics are very good and with my 2Box I don’t need any gain at all and as you can see in the video it picks up the lightest of touches. There is of course a hot spot directly over the sensor and that’s why I’ve located it in an area where I’m never really going to hit it.
In the past with it in different positions I have occasionally hit the sensor directly but without any damage. Piezos are actually very robust although the solder can be a weak point.
Thanks for your comment.
@@timscott3071 brilliant, thanks for the reply 👍
Cool!
Cheers!
Tim. Hi. Really liked this video. Very thorough and informative. I'm about to do an acoustic to e-drum conversion. I hadn't seen this trigger style before. Thinking of using this style. It sure sounded like it triggered really well. My only question is, with the brass piezo actually touching the mesh head... What happens when the element is stuck by a stray stick hit? I guess it'd be destroyed?. Have you any experience with that issue?
And I guess it puts a centre trigger out of the question?
Paul. New Zealand
Hi Paul and thanks for your interest. You’re right, it wouldn’t do them much good if you kept hitting the piezos and I have actually done that a few times with earlier placements when I was experimenting. Truth is that they weren’t damaged and did carry on working as normal, all you got was a massive ‘hot spot’ effect. I’m not so good that I always hit dead centre so I just looked at where I tend to hit each drum and put the piezo as far from that point as I could. Works for me.
You’re right, it’s not the best design for a centre trigger but all the centre trigger drums I’ve ever tried have hot spots and my module doesn’t do positional sensing anyway so it’s a non-issue for me.
The only problem I’ve had with one drum is the wire coming away from the piezo itself. I’ve now added a blob of hot glue to all soldering points and hope this will prevent any repeats.
By the way, if anyone else tries this method I’d be really interested to hear how you got on.
@@timscott3071 thank you Tim
@@timscott3071 would putting a piece of black tape or something over the piezo are help to avoid hitting the piezo are directly ? ..just as a reference .
@@livelongandprosper70 Yes of course you could do that Rob but I’ve put mine in an area where I’m not going to hit it. Also you can see the brass through the mesh head anyway.
Hi Tim, nice video. Do you happen to have a source for the foam? Thichness? thankx
Sorry Ron I don’t have a source, I was given the foam a few years ago. But I’ve seen pretty much the same stuff used to produce some exercise mats, look for something about 12mm thick. I’m pretty sure it’s a neoprene foam.
@@timscott3071 perfect 👍 thankx tim. Amazon has many types similar. Cant tell how many types of foam I’ve tried. Now using mr clean white eraser pads. Works very well. Eventually i should just get poron. Just so dam expensive. But i can make bunch for my whole kit with 3 edge trigger design i built. But I’ll give your foam project try 🙏🏻
I remember using sanding pad foam to make some cone triggers but they just didn't work for me hence this design. Here the foam is performing a completely different function: gently pressing the piezo against the head and also isolating it from any other shocks or vibrations. Hence the use of a much softer material, it's doing a totally different job. The isolation is such that cross triggering is virtually never an issue.
Here's a general question, i currently only have a cheap ALESIS lite kit..just starting drumming..late in life 😁..its a cheap 2nd hand kit that I had to solder every pad and Cymbal..it works but looks like a toy, but..its quiet, and gets me started..actually not too bad..but, im thinking il buy a used "acoustic" kit and adapt it as per your video or similar as I have neighbours..what do you think? Will it be as quiet as my Alesis kit if I use 2 ply mesh heads ? Or should I invest in a more expensive electronic set? I enjoy DIY stuff so thats why I'm attracted to trying out projects like yours, Any tips appreciated
Hi Rob, I’m assuming you mean the Alesis DM Lite kit? If so I’ve just had a quick look at it and noticed that it has small rubber pads and a cable loom rather than individual jack cables to each pad. So your cable length is fixed and this could cause issues if you’re going to make some larger pads, the existing leads might not reach.
To answer your question, any mesh heads heads will almost certainly be a lot quieter than the rubber ones you’re using at the moment. I suspect however that your main problem could be setting up new triggers as it looks like your module is very basic and probably doesn’t have much in the way of trigger setting adjustability. This could well make it impossible to get accurate triggering. There’s nothing to stop you giving it a try of course but I suspect you could well end up needing a different module.
I’ve recently discovered Luke’s channel and I have to say it is absolutely fantastic with masses of content for anyone wanted to learn more about electronic drums and particularly with regard to all sorts of different pad set ups and their compatibility with different modules…..
ua-cam.com/users/TheeDrumWorkshop
Supper
Thanks. Glad to have helped.
hello Tim great video
I also did the same editing as you, but my Rim trigger does not sound on my ROLAND TD12
Do you know this problem?? thanks for an answer
I'm not really familiar with Roland modules but I seem to remember that the rim and head connections might be reversed in the Roland modules. You could try changing the head trigger to the ring connection and the rim trigger to the tip. Worth a try. Other than that maybe check the threshold and gain settings?
@@timscott3071 Thank you tim
@@patrickmallet8178 No problem, please let me know how you get on and if you manage to fix this problem. The other thing to check of course is the cable.
@@patrickmallet8178 Roland wires ceramic to sleeve and brass to tip. Also, ceramic typically face up.
Yes I believe that’s correct Ron but 2Box do it the other way.
Please can you show how to D.I.Y drum pedal trigger only? with no drum shell? like you can show in your video the pedal has a drum trigger can you show how to assemble drum trigger?
O meu está saindo tudo o som da caixa... todas os pinos estão com esse mesmo som.
Do you believe is safe to set the piezzo back surface in contact straight with inside surface of mesh head?? Cause with one strong hit you will damage it very easily!!
Hi Stamatis. As I’ve said in other replies I did experiment with other positions and sometimes did hit the piezo directly but never with any damage. I think the soft neoprene underneath it reduces the risk of damage.
@@timscott3071 all ways exist in the internet shows the piezo down or in the middle of foam material and the results are perfect.I think your way increase the sensitivity but not the durabillity and not too the control of sensitivity so i think isn't recommended.
Thanks for your opinion but that's not my experience. As I said in the video this is the same method that 2Box use for their own mesh pads. So there are at least two of us who find it effective!
Variety is the spice of life 👍
Hi tim, what foam did you use in the video?
Hi Jonathan, thanks for your interest. It's from a neoprene foam exercise mat.
Didnt you made cheaper by the dozen?
How does the rim click work?
Hi Shane, I presume you mean the rim sensor. I've tried to show it in the video. It does work.
the piezzo should be be samdwiched between two pices of foam so it does not get dmaged with use ye you might get better sensitivity but it wont last if built that way
Well apparently not 🤷♂️
Absolutely sandwiched or foam cone or cylinder on top 👍
That’s the conventional method Ron. This is different, hence me making the video. It’s pretty much the same way 2 Box make their production triggers which work very well. That’s why I copied it!
As I’ve proven it’s not necessary to sandwich the piezo.
@@timscott3071 hey Tim do you remember where you sourced the foam?
@@rondeangelis7384 I've replied to your other comment Ron 👍
Good , but now the piezo is completely unprotected from some direct hits by the drumstick! That's why the factories have the piezo under the foam & not above it . Just thinkin' . 🤔
That's why I place the piezo in a place on each drum where I'm not going to hit it, Eric. Isolation and sensitivity are superior to the cone method in my experience. It's exactly the method used by 2Box on their own mesh pads the only difference being that they have a plastic cover over the piezo so you can't hit it. It's quite easy to place them in positions where you're very unlikely to hit them, as I've proved. Even if you do occasionally hit them they're robust and not easily damaged.
@@timscott3071 O.K. Tim , thanks for that detailed answer! Also , it should be way more output from the piezo this way .
Yep there's plenty of output and good sensitivity which is pretty linear in nature.
I can only speak for using this with a 2Box module, it may be that it's too hot for Roland and others but I'd have thought that the trigger settings could probably be tweaked to make it work. I've never personally tried but would love to hear anyone's experience with other modules.
Thanks for your interest, it's nice to know that people are still finding my video!
tim do you have an ad email i will send you pictures thank you
I’d prefer not to put my email address on here Patrick. Maybe you could upload the photos somewhere?
Thanks you
You're welcome. Glad you found it useful.
You look like a wrinkle-free Gordon Ramsay.
You seem like a brain free human 🤷♂️🙄
Hi Tim
Well done on a very interesting video. I have a 2Box Drumit mk1 great to see more information about 2Box triggers. I wish they was more about getting 3 zones diy snares (using rim & X stick switches, bar triggers and not using rim piezos). The only thing I've seen online was
m.ua-cam.com/video/cFBrP3P_8kc/v-deo.html
I was testing different triggers when I came across a setup that makes the 2Box snare layered and sounds much better. Use 2 or 3 triggers with different sensitivity on the same mesh head with 2 or 3 stereo outputs. I have had amazing results and would love others to hear the difference of triggering a layer snare sound. See the replies for more details.
I have the 2Box drumit 5 mk1 module with a 64 GB card extension connversion loaded with 2Box, Free samples & VST samples. When I first started playing the 2Box module I found the kick & snare lacking some cut & doesn't have positional sensing but I made my 13" snare play like it has positional sensing. On the snare I'am using 2 different edge triggers mounted @ 11 o'clock & 1 o'clock into the 2Box and a 3rd smaller 27mm centre mounted cone trigger (Quartz percussion lowest sensitivity) plugged into my TD11 that adds dry Roland sounds. I'am right handed so the 35mm Quartz percussion cone trigger @ 11 o'clock is the most sensitive (I play quiet ghost notes with left hand on left side of snare). There is an square Extreme trigger @ 1 o'clock it is medium sensitive (I play loud accents with right hand on the right) with a higher threshold setting sometimes has the same snare DSDN samples tuned +0.1 more and a decay of 1.5 -2.5 and 40% - 60% volume and that is plugged into Tom 1. Hitting the mesh snare head at different sides and at different dynamics triggers 3 different layers of sound. I have 4 toms on a splitter cables from the Tom 2 & Tom 3 inputs.
With a guitar ABY pedal I plug the kick into both the TD11 & 2Box modules. Only the snare & kick are connected to the TD11. Different TD11 kits will change the tuning, tone, snare buzz, ring and kick fattness of the combined drum sound. The 2Box open sound does benefit from the fat, tight, attack of the layered kick & snare sound. The headphone output from a module is plugged into the aux input of the other module and I can still use the Rolands metronome and coach function. I hope this helps you get diy positonal sensing and great layered sounds.
That's a really interesting idea Sam. Sounds like it'll take a good bit of time to set up but I can see how it would work. Thanks for posting. Cheers.
@@timscott3071 Hi Tim
Just do the first step of adding a second less sensitive side mounted trigger. Mount your very sensitive piezo @ 7 o'clock and mount the second less sensitive foam covered trigger @ 5 o'oclock on the snare. Take the bottom head off to test second trigger (if happy with trigger and sound you can then drill a hole for a second stereo output) plugging into a spare Tom input.
Please give the second trigger a go, it sounds so good I can't go back to only one triggered sample now.
Yours is very sensitive. ouldnt do it the right way