DOOM ON THE COMMODORE 64 in 50 FPS! The RAD Expansion unit
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2023
- In this video I check out the RAD Expansion unit for the C64/C128. It can do some magic tricks!
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The RAD is a fairly simple device for the cartridge port of a C64/C128. It works together with a Raspberry Pi and can bypass the computers CPU to do some really heavy lifting and cool stuff while still using the computers VIC2 and SID chip (and the rest of the machine).
This way you can run DOOM on the C64. The game runs on the Pi's ARM processor in 50 FPS, but you use the C64 for the keyboard, graphics and sound. It can play samples, and it also features up to 16Mb RAM expansion. How cool is that ?
In this video I also install a modern Saruman memory replacement for the golden C64.
GitHub RAD: github.com/frntc/RAD
RAD-Doom: github.com/frntc/RAD-Doom
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![[NEW] Crystal Clear HDMI For The Commodore 64 In 60 Seconds](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SBgo8oGFung/mqdefault.jpg)
I don't want to be negative, but this is the type of expansion that makes me ask 'where do we really draw the line for expansions?' because we have so much computer power in such small form factor. This seems like an expansion for the C64 but computationally, it's the other way around... This is a module to use the C64 as a display device for the raspberry pi. The project is cool though. I respect the knowledge and effort that went into converting a pi screen into C64 video RAM format. However, I really don't think putting something literally thousands of times faster in a cartridge is the way forward for 'retro expansions'.
I agree. The commodore is just a and input and display adapter in this case. So you don't run the software on the C64.
You have very reasonable point, I also think it's not really a C64 anymore at this "upgrade level", but a cool retro gaming console with (hopefully lag-free) 64er-inputs. Though, I would love to see more 3D-games as flight simulators or racers in this style, with neaty-gritty commodore visuals and sid-sound. As long as the original hardware (breadbox-keyboard, joystick, soundchip) is present and utilized, I still think it can carry over the 'right retro' feeling.
Agree, but still fun to experience and play around with.
Of course you miss the fact that he was installing it in a replica machine which is a modern device that merely uses a view proprietary chips from the old 64. LOL. It is all in fun. I have pure 64s with nothing modern and some Razzy assisted 64s too. It is all for fun.
It's like playing Cyberpunk on a Mac using Stadia or GeForceNow 😊
Great video Tommy! I like the way you use the term, 'played using the c64', It's a pretty special use of a classic machine. Great to see your subscribers growing as well. you'll be 10k soon. Well deserved.
Thanks a lot! 👍
Cool video! 😀 I recognized the Amiga module song at the RAD start screen. That was a fun device!
Thanks! Yes it was!
That was very interesting and entertaining! I think I just purchased that same box of plastic standoffs for my Raspberry Pi PiSCSI (for vintage Mac). I got mine at Adafruit in the US. Anyway thanks for all your great videos!
Thanks!
I wish I could accidentally touch a chip and fix my machines ! LOL Another great Artic retro video.
Thanks!
Another fine commodore video and thank you for teaching me something new. Will it run doom? Yes! 😮
Thank you!
Still no Crysis, tho. :P
This looks very cool. Hello from Sierra Madre California.
Hello California! Btw, I've been to SF, LA and San Diego :) Loved it!
That Doom demo looks seriously good.
I finally have all the parts to build the RAD and am looking forward to giving it a whirl.
The Sound (SID) and Video (VIC) chips are being directly interfaced with the pi. The cartridge port has a signal to suspend the CPU (Implemented for Z80 based CPM card expansion)
OK, cool!
Pretty cool addon. Can imagine you can code a lot of games to run on that ARM cpu and use the C64 video/sound chips. Could be an awesome coding challenge (i like to code for old retro systems for fun but can quickly run out of memory and clock cycles.)
One thing you could try with Sonic is to use the d81 image of the game, so you don’t have to worry about the disk change. The Pi1541 supports also those.
Yes, I did that on the Vice emulator. Just wanted to test this variant :)
good video tommy ..and that is a cool device!
Thanks 👍
Great video as usual 🙂👍🏻
Regarding the RAD expansion, it has excellent potential as an emulation of the REU and GEORAM ...
The limitation of the original REU is the loading from floppy disks... in the case of 16MB it is not practicable... hence modern solutions such as the 1541II+ or the RAD. After all, real hardware would only be achievable with IDE64, which is very rare.
Doom ... it's just not running on the C64 so it's not for me.
Congratulations to you again ✨✨
Thank you :)
IDE64 is still closed source these days? Not that it is that useful in the first place.
Re. the Doom demo, I have this memory that back in the day, you could get Apple II compatibility for the C-64 with an expansion box that essentially contained a cloned Apple II. This reminds me of that strategy.
And Z80 CP/M machine on a cartridge.
Admittedly, RAD may seem more like a way of "pretending" to run games on a Commodore 64 rather than actually running on the original hardware. However, there are some considerations and possible practical benefits of using a RAD in combination with a Commodore 64:
Hardware preservation: The Commodore 64 is an iconic piece of computing history and many enthusiasts wish to preserve and use the original hardware. By connecting a RAD, it is possible to run more modern games and applications without modifying or damaging the original Commodore 64.
Compatibility with modern software: By using the RAD and a Raspberry Pi, it is possible to run newer games and software that could not run directly on the Commodore 64 hardware. This expands the software options available and makes it possible to enjoy modern titles and applications on a retro machine.
Component integration: The RAD allows you to take advantage of the unique aspects of the Commodore 64, such as the keyboard, graphics and sound chips, while using the processing power of the Raspberry Pi to perform more complex calculations. This creates a more authentic gaming experience and may appeal to nostalgia enthusiasts.
While it is true that the RAD does not directly run the game on Commodore 64 hardware, it can provide a blended experience that mixes retro elements with more modern capabilities. Each person may have their own reasons and preferences in choosing to use a RAD rather than simply using the Raspberry Pi or emulators on a PC. (ChatGPT-3.5 response)
Good insight. Thanks for the comment!
I had a C64 back in 1984 - only recently discovered the retro fanbase - so fun!
Great!
the community is alive for all 8bit and 16bit home computer and consoles
It was about time. Saw Doom in a calculator. C64 was a matter of time. I imagine if you allow music to play the fx won't play.
The device emulates a REU or GeoRAM in software via a hardware cartridge interface. What’s the problem? It also can do a bunch of other stuff but you can just use it as an REU.
Any number of modern FPGA chips are “more powerful” than the C64. Yet it seems fine to me to use an FPGA to recreate various C64 hardware. Using a Raspberry Pi isn’t much different.
I would recommend trying out the RAD and/or the SIdeKick64 if that kind of thing interests you and don’t it it doesn’t.
Excellent
the name of the Saruman module made me laugh. Fantastic name.
Yes, great :)
I mean, technically, with this expansion, you could *technically* run windows 10 IoT and have a full-blown dumb terminal for an RDP session.
Kind of reminds me of the NES reverse emulation project that was launched a couple years back.
I wasn't aware such REU specific demos existed. Now that I see the year 2010 on those files I must haved lived under a rock for more than a decade.
For the character ROM I suggest you took an additional socket the place the chip in. Then maybe solder some or all the pins. This chip+socket combination can then be used to put into the socket on all of your boards. I know the legs of sockets are bit too thick to fit into sockets but you don't have to jam it in as much. It should still make better contact than the too short legs which CBM cut off to not short circuit the underside of board with the cardboard RF shield.
I was not aware either. Thanks for the advice :)
Hey, do you know if the the RAD REU works for Sam's Journey on NTSC? The NTSC version requires an REU.
Don't know
This RAD thingy is pretty neat, the hard part is getting a pi. It would be nice to have something like this but with usb that could be attached to a PC and using PC instead of the pi 😀
It would be possible I guess
Is there a PI shortage or something? I bought a PI before without issue
Hi Tommy, very interesting video as usual!
Could you tell me the name of the musician and the title of the music we can hear at the end of your video (37:15), please? Thank you.
Cheers from Italy!
Thanks! The artist is Geir Nilsskog from Norway. The song is "Cascade". You find him on Spotify.
Hey Tommy can you tell us about any differences buying electronics from the UK now that they are outside the EU? For that matter, do Norwegians have to pay any extra for not being a part of the Euro?
For us it's the same as before. We have to pay 25% VAT anyway from all countries. But with the VOEC system we don't get additional handling fees
This is Amazing,is all that i have to say
Thanks!
Why can't u use the HDMI output from the pie? What about a quad core pi0?
The Digimax is a small device that plugs into the user port, and gives you 4 channels of 8 bit sound which output through its own audio jack. You can play Amiga MODs and other stuff through it. It seems pretty cool, although I personally have no desire to use my C64 as a digital music player. I'd rather hear that SID chip goodness. ;)
As for the RAD Expansion, it also seems cool from what you've demo'd here but the Sidekick project (I think by the same creator) seems way more useful.
Ok, thanks for the info :)
You could take the Character ROM chip out and clean that socket out with some IPA or DeoxIT, whichever is closest on hand.
Cool Subbed
Thanks!
TGIF and nice video!
Thanks!
does your channel name take inspiration from action retro?
Is this actually processed on a C64, beyond passing keys to the RAD expansion? It looks more like everything is on running on the RAD and the C64 is just there to give input. I bet the funky screen is to make it look like C64 rendering it in a low res, low colour mode
Yes, of course. The C64 produces the video image and the sound output using the VIC and SID chips. However, the game code runs on the Pi
This got me thinking... would it be possible to emulate another computer and interact with it using the C64 as I/O interface?
The C64 would be some kind of terminal...
Emulate an 386 based PC on the Pi for example and have it ouput the CLI onto the C64...
Great idea. I guess it is possible
Clever system. The conversion to C64 graphics is going to happen on to Pi and then only the C64 compatible graphics are sent to the C64 itself. This would still require some fair memory bandwidth but that's what the cartridge provides. This reduces the C64 to providing keyboard input and passively displaying C64 graphics and playing audio. Pretty much a dumb terminal in effect, but still very clever. I'm half tempted to find the old C64 at my parent's place and have a go!
Yes, it's mostly for fun.
Do the cheats work like IDDQD God Mode, IDKFA All weapons and ammo plus all keys?
I don't know
The AVGN would be proud.
They should have introduced this in 1986 as an upgrade to the stock C64
The world would have gone nuts over technology anything like this in the stock C64... let alone anything as cheap as a RPi
thanks for the wideo
Thanks for watching!
Holy crap, I haven't seen the Dator Magazin logo in so long.
It was my favorite mag in the 80's
Great video again ! Keep us dreaming :)
Thank you! Will do!
I really wish the RAD Expansion Unit could be emulated, since I'd love to play this in my emulator
The Doom demo is really impressive, though it isn't running natively on the C64. I know the pi is capable of emulating a 6510 at VERY high clock speed so it would be really nice if someone wrote the code to have the RAD take over the stock 6510 and run an emulated one at, say, 200 or 300 mhz. Then let the demo scene coders have a crack at it!
I'd love to see this as another option for C64 acceleration besides the Turbo Chameleon or Super CPU.
@@LeftoverBeefcake Never heard of the Turbo Chameleon, but just looked it up. Interesting! They don't give the 6510 (FPGA) clock speed but they say it runs almost twice as fast as the CMD SuperCPU from back in the day, which was 20mhz. Impressive, but I think they could do even better. Anyway, cool stuff.
It looks like it'll work with the RPi Zero 2, which at least can be gotten for less than crazy money.
Prices are crazy now. I had a couple from before the chip shortage
@@Arcticretro, I also have half a dozen and I dare not use them in case some of my "production" units need to be replaced.
Is it something like a PCM2PWM that takes PCM data and then outputs PWM audio.
Ok, thanks!
I have a c128D (US NTSC) and I need a Keyboard for it, any idea where I can get one?
Ebay has a cable adapter for $16 (from Germany) that will allow you to use a C64 keyboard with your C128.
And I saw another product called AT-128 which looks like an internal expansion card that lets you use an older PC keyboard on the 128d. I didn't find it in stock anywhere, but that's something else to keep an eye out for.
@@customsongmaker I don't have a c64 kb at present either. But it might make a good project someday
| Awesome ! | :3
Thanks!
Is it interlaced? Can't the pi0 emulate the 80 column screen enhancement?
There are many trick to push C64 display beyond what it was designed for.
One is to flipping between two images with different colour palettes to trick human eye to see even more colours, but C64 on it's own can only do it on a static image.
I think what is done her is that C64 displays a single 'static' image, but PI changes memory on the fly making the content dynamic.
So with PI doing all the heavy work all tricks can be used with dynamic content and probably much more.
For example at 26:36 the youtuber hold a 'dither' button for a second. It produces kind of random dithering effect, which is more appealing to an eye. C64 would never be capable to do it fast enough on it's own.
It might be to annoying while player is not moving, but when he is moving, he wouldn't even notice that dithering is changing with each frame.
@@xys007 why doesn't super cpu have 80 column video mode too?
Why does the guy below rant on quality I guess he knows nothing on how FAR it is being pushed it’s incredible! ❤
Can you play Pokémon gameboy verison with this with c64 as keyboard?
If you program it I can :)
@@Arcticretro how much work is this
@@dylanzenskateboarding I don't know. You would have to modify it to stream the video to the C64.
Is it REALLY running on the C64, if all the C64 is being used for is video output? I mean, it really doesn't need the C64 at all, the Raspberry Pi could easily output the video by itself, bypassing the C64 entirely.
It's kind of like saying that you can tow a semi truck with a Volkswagon Beetle, if you ignore the extra diesel engine bolted to the back of the car.
But even if it is just accessing and filling the original video memory directly, it's still surprising how fast that video memory can refresh, way beyond what the original hardware was capable of driving.
@@tezinho81 Original cartridge games on the C64 took full advantage of the very fast memory bandwidth provided by the cartridge interface. Cartridges were effectively mini computers in their own right which was why there were so expensive. In many ways using an RPi as a cartridge is almost no different, just many magnitudes more capable.
better than my 386sx 33mhz 4mb ram
So basically... cloud streaming to a C64 :O ... anything a Pi can play the C64 can stream :D
what about atari?
You're playing DOOM on the Raspberry Pi, not on the Commodore 64.
The C64 only handles the keyboard input and the streaming of the video and audio.
Yes, as I explained in the video :) Fun still...
Itsn't this how the SuperCPU works too?
@@Zentauri77 Not at all.
12:44 music moment
This is less running Doom on a Commodore than it is DISPLAYING Doom on a Commodore......
Yes, as stated in the video multiple times :)
Sure cpu quad core version 640x480 each processor
stupid idea, why do you need c64 for doom?
Why would you need milk ?
this software does not work for me, I've tried 2 different sd cards that does work and all im getting is a black screen and the green light constantly flashes. I did copy the files from the zip to the root of my sd card. can some one please help?
Something wrong with the computer then?
@@Arcticretro i tested the pi 3 with retroarch and it works and my pc works ok too.
im having problem with the rad firmware software
It's not c64. It's c64 "watching" raspberry working
What sort of magic is this? Who's your master? From what realm did this come from? C64 are you all right?
you didn't.... that's unbelievable!
Send this setup to AVGN so he can finally get to play DOOM on the C64!
Men kan den køre Crysis?
Nope
Hi, what does rad mean? r ? a? d?
I don't know. Never seen an explanation
Its now C128
Almost!
i like the Video but i hope you use Linux as your main OS,cheers......
Sorry, only Windows and MacOS here :) Some Linux at work
6:07 Austin Powers moment?
:)
All very cool, but I'd rather see these things on stock hardware.
so you kinda use the c64 as thin client for another computer hmh
how about just super optimizing doom code to run on the c64, like a super demo
is it still a c64 if you slot an fpga chip on the expansion port to make the calculations
I think that has been tried, but not achievable
@@Arcticretro why would you say so, of course it can be achieved, not through law tho, have God, dont hate with limits plz
@@Arcticretro do plane-ray casting, its just x+y scan lines per frame, like 300x200 -> 300+200=500 whatnot, with bfs grid traverse draw order
The music is so loud that i barely understand what you say. 👀
OK, thanks for letting me know.
norway
I'm old ...
Me too..
@@Arcticretro but thank you for bringing back memories 🍺
Running Doom is nice but I'd be more impressed if it ran Metal Dust.
Hopefully more stuff will be made for this :)
Before you turn off your pi you should open a connandpromot with root-access. Then type "halt". Wait a moment and then you can turn off your pi. Otherwise you can can damage the filesystem of the sd-caed.
I think it's rather misleading to claim doom is running on the c64 when it's actually running on a raspberry pi attached to one. Isn't it nicer to just run doom on the raspberry pi without the c64 but with hdmi and a usb keyboard and mouse instead?
I thought the c64 sonic was kinda similar in that you could just emulate the original game more easily, but at least with that game it can run with a real (although rare and expensive) REU from the 1980s.
I never claim that it runs on the C64. Not in the title or the thumnail. The video explains what is going on, If you saw it.
@@Arcticretro The thumbnail literally says "playing doom on the commodore 64". That's misleading. It should say "playing doom on the raspberry pi attached to a commodore 64"
@@AbAb-th5qe That is s matter of definition. The human input is on the Commodore. The Visual output is on the Commodore. So I am playing on the Commodore. But it is not running the game.
@@Arcticretro Perhaps you consider that so, but I and I think most developers would only if the c64's 6510 cpu was running the game logic. That's not the case here right?
That’s unplayable. Your eyes are too valuable to get ruined that way.
No, it's fine :)
All this really is is doom running with a C64 palette. Ridiculous. You could make something similar for the ZX Spectrum, even the ZX81. It's not a C64.
I doubt it would be possible on the ZX spectrum
Cool ,but its just a hijack.
This basically plugs a C64 on a mini PC to ruin the picture. :S
28:04 Yeah, so its not "ON" the Commodore 64, and the video is a damn lie.
This isn't some amazing port of Doom that makes some compromises to work, no. It's a hack with a Raspberry Pi. I'm so tired of seeing these kinds of videos pop up in searches. Just be honest. It's not running on a C64.
You clearly did not see the whole video. I explain what is going on very well in the video. Everyone understands it. Just a few did not.
IMPressive
Thx!
Not my way of using old Hardware. Nowadays the sky is the limit from the view of an c64. So using modern tech completely destroys the need of calling it c64.
The need for knowledge about the custom chips and the possible hacks tends so zero, because everything can be bypassed with computing power and memory.
No, not my style 😂
So you stick some 2020s hardware onto your 1980s hardware so you can run some 1990s software...badly...makes sense...have fun ;)
Was fun :)
I have a better idea…..run all those programs in the rapsberry pi without the C64…😅😊😂.
No, not that fun
. The commodore 64
What a fantastic n crap computer lol 😆 😂😅 ya goofy m8te from Australia
Who cares if it can play Doom? There are 1000 better ways to play doom! Doom is up there with tetris with the number of ports both official and unofficial it's had.
Can it play Metal Dust? You know, a C64 game?
This is incredibly dumb. Doom is not running on the 64, it's running on a Raspberry Pie, only with the color limitation of the C64. The TI994A can run not-quite-full- FMV Dragon's Lair. It really is the TI running the code. It's just a very large cartridge (128MB) and the video is pre-rendered in a way that the TI can reproduce. But once you put in the regular old cartridge, the TI itself can play the game. The SID can play real music so long as you have a big enough cartridge. The 2600 benefits greatly from hardware in the cartridge and can play games like Galaga, Mappy, Turbo and others with just hardware in the cartridge.
This is another computer attached to computer c64. Its not Expansion in the normal way. Im not interesting it at all😂 its gimmick for Loosing free time😂
Doom on the C64? More like installing those expansion chips along with some trial on error and some rambling before finally getting to see doom trough cheating tricks running on a C64 after 25 minutes of watching some boring crap,hahaha how droll,,,how very droll what a waste of tume,not mention,then showing some other (homebrew) games on it,so it isn’t fair to say in title ‘doom on C64’ because theres waaay more to it and waaaay more behind it,but either way it’s just cheating anyway.
Hehe. Troll. You must be a fun person to be around :)
is this A REAL golden breadbox ?! :O
No, painted one
@@Arcticretro You did an awesome job on this i have to say - was really intrigued - especially also the detail with the Keycaps and Inlay