Hey that’s me! I’m glad the original commenter got the conversation started and that I could contribute to it. The concept/ theories of autism are constantly evolving and I love being alive at a time where so much knowledge is being crowdsourced so it can include everyone :)
I’m nonbinary, but amab and mostly masculine-presenting. I didn’t actually realize I might be autistic until I learned about the “female presentation” of autism and realized that it described basically my entire life. I was raised Mormon, which comes with a lot of religious social etiquette to follow, and was also raised primarily by my mom and grandmother, without any siblings. Therefore, my presentation of autism fits the stereotype of the Late Diagnosed High-Masking Female, when the last part of that description isn’t me at all (though, a big part of my mask has always been me trying and failing to fit in with my male peers, funnily enough). I really believe that the perceived differences in presentation between genders really come down to socialization more than any biological factors, and while as you said, it’s helped a lot of women and femme-presenting folks come to a better understanding of themselves, I get kind of frustrated at how it’s treated as an absolute. I’ve even heard people say that women have a more inherent ability to mask and that men are unable to, which is both objectively untrue and potentially damaging to amab folks who might not realize they’re autistic because they’re high masking.
thank you so much for taking the time to type this out and share your perspective. first, i genuinely want to apologize if i treated it like an absolute at all in this video. that does sound extremely frustrating! i definitely agree with the last part you wrote about it being harmful to men, that's a really interesting point. as for your personal experience, i'm so glad you were able to find a presentation of autism that you relate to, i know for me that was super validating! it makes sense that a lot of the differing presentations of autism have to do with socialization.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot. I once told my mom when I was young that I didn’t understand how women have this solidarity or collective experience, (or phrases like “women all struggle with x”) and she said she didn’t get it. I don’t know if I’d ever identify as nonbinary exactly.. but I also don’t feel like a woman? I don’t know lol
this comment is so relatable i was going to say that about womanhood/girlhood but didn't know how to phrase it... like yeah it's nice but also what even is it?
Holy shit , i have never heared anyone who agrees with me this much. I'm AMAB , but i don't feel a certain gender . Like can anyone describe what feeling gender euphoria is like? It bothers me so much how gray zoned gender is , i kinda want to just opt out of gender. I've tried to talk to my therapist about it , but she always ends up saying that i'am cis despite not understanding the concept of gender. I dunno what to think .
I can't really give a better answer than you'll find on google about gender euphoria but your therapist is way overstepping and bad at her job telling you what you are. I'd get out of there if I were you and try to talk to someone who has worked with LGBTQ+ people. From what you said maybe you could be classified as agender? There's also some good subreddits for people who are trying to understand their gender identity, hearing personal experiences can be just as useful as therapy.
it's so nice to hear that someone relates to me!! i agree it's so frustrating how much grey there is with gender. i'm sorry your therapist constantly dismisses that topic though, it sounds like you need someone to talk to who will listen with an open mind instead of jumping to conclusions.
Thank you for so deeply considering my comment, and I hope it didn’t initially leave you feeling criticized. That was the furthest thing from my intention.
no it's totally all alright! i was excited to think more deeply about the topic and reevaluate my perspective. thank you so much for commenting i always appreciate it :) sorry if i butchered the pronunciation of your username
@@beyondthespectrumpodcast If I’m being honest, I pulled it from an Australian book series as a kid, and I’m an uncultured American, so I have no idea how it’s pronounced either. 😂 I latched onto it because it was the name of a tool used in the fantasy series to restore free thought to the dead, so it really resonated with my tendency to overanalyze, overthink, etc. For what it’s worth, I’ve always assumed it was either Bell-jay-er, like you said, or Belg-air, so you’re either right on, or only slightly off.
3:28 it's so correct! autistic people do not grasp gender in the same way just like they do with the other norms that are imposed by society. gender is a social construct and autistic people are just more likely to not care as much about the social rules. the sad thing about it is that now many people feeling like this will identify as trans/non-binary and therefore the gender stereotypes only get enforced. anyone that doesn't fit in, is indirectly getting the message they aren't a man or woman, just because they don't conform or are more/less masculine/feminine than is socially expected of them.🦔either way great video! and no worries, you are being very respectful!
Its not "sad" to experiment, many people do this with their sexuality aswell. My friends who are ttans guys still like wearing makeup and skirts. They still know they are a guy, because expression has nothing to do with identity. Most queer and gender non conforming people understand this. You can like traditionally "girl" things regardless of gender, that is the point of what this person is saying. Your gender identity is seperate from what your interests are. We as a society chose what was "manly" or "girly". I don't really understand or really like your diction. Why is it "sad" that people identify as trans? The "sad" part is not people trying to find themselves, its the overreaction to this that is sad. Being trans is hard, but calling it "sad" is very upsetting to me. I will not take it personally, but you seem to have a very incorrect point of view on this. Lile I said, I am trans and have trand friends, and while that doesnt make me the spokesperson, i can say that in MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, questioning your gender identity isnt "sad". And I have known people who thought they were trans and ended up feeling differently later. Its not as dramatic and "sad" as you are portraying it as brother. Its like any self discovery, its confusing and takes time and patience. But being trans does not enforce stereotypes anymore than cis people enforce it.
@@magicdolphin3090 thank you for your reaction and your polite wording. i'm sorry if you misunderstood my comment. i don't think it's sad that people identify as trans or that people experiment with their gender expression. there is nothing wrong with experimenting with how you dress, trying different pronouns or a different name. it can indeed be a good way to find who you are. but being trans also often comes with a medicalized process of hormones and operations, and these are not completely reversible. in my country there is a gender affirming care model, where it is not or barely taken into account that there are many causes of gender dysphoria which can't be cured by hormones and operations. ... you say it completely right, it's society who says what is manly and womanly. so yeah, it's the cis people that enforce stereotypes, but trans people do as well. for example, when an amab person who wears a lot of dresses calls themselves non-binary, they are enforcing the stereotype that men have to be manly and can't wear 'female' clothes. also i agree, i think that any human being (regardless of gender) can have any interest and express themselves in any way they want. the concept of gender identity just pushes us into boxes.
I don't think people are going to start identifying as trans or nonbinary just because they don't fit gender stereotypes. They'll possibly have a period of thinking about their gender identity and gender expression, and maybe try different pronouns as a little trial run to see what they prefer. But being trans/non binary doesn't have to do with stereotypes. For example, I'm afab nonbinary, but I still like things that are stereotypically girly, like pink and glitter, and flowers, and I like wearing dresses. But I'm not a woman because I don't feel like one, even though I like feminine things. Gender expression and gender identity aren't the same thing.
i've heard of this book but unfortunately haven't found it at any nearby bookstores. i'm considering buying online! thanks for your recommendation this definitely is motivating me to read it.
Hey that’s me! I’m glad the original commenter got the conversation started and that I could contribute to it. The concept/ theories of autism are constantly evolving and I love being alive at a time where so much knowledge is being crowdsourced so it can include everyone :)
I’m nonbinary, but amab and mostly masculine-presenting. I didn’t actually realize I might be autistic until I learned about the “female presentation” of autism and realized that it described basically my entire life. I was raised Mormon, which comes with a lot of religious social etiquette to follow, and was also raised primarily by my mom and grandmother, without any siblings. Therefore, my presentation of autism fits the stereotype of the Late Diagnosed High-Masking Female, when the last part of that description isn’t me at all (though, a big part of my mask has always been me trying and failing to fit in with my male peers, funnily enough). I really believe that the perceived differences in presentation between genders really come down to socialization more than any biological factors, and while as you said, it’s helped a lot of women and femme-presenting folks come to a better understanding of themselves, I get kind of frustrated at how it’s treated as an absolute. I’ve even heard people say that women have a more inherent ability to mask and that men are unable to, which is both objectively untrue and potentially damaging to amab folks who might not realize they’re autistic because they’re high masking.
thank you so much for taking the time to type this out and share your perspective. first, i genuinely want to apologize if i treated it like an absolute at all in this video. that does sound extremely frustrating! i definitely agree with the last part you wrote about it being harmful to men, that's a really interesting point. as for your personal experience, i'm so glad you were able to find a presentation of autism that you relate to, i know for me that was super validating! it makes sense that a lot of the differing presentations of autism have to do with socialization.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot. I once told my mom when I was young that I didn’t understand how women have this solidarity or collective experience, (or phrases like “women all struggle with x”) and she said she didn’t get it. I don’t know if I’d ever identify as nonbinary exactly.. but I also don’t feel like a woman? I don’t know lol
this comment is so relatable i was going to say that about womanhood/girlhood but didn't know how to phrase it... like yeah it's nice but also what even is it?
Holy shit , i have never heared anyone who agrees with me this much. I'm AMAB , but i don't feel a certain gender . Like can anyone describe what feeling gender euphoria is like? It bothers me so much how gray zoned gender is , i kinda want to just opt out of gender. I've tried to talk to my therapist about it , but she always ends up saying that i'am cis despite not understanding the concept of gender. I dunno what to think .
I can't really give a better answer than you'll find on google about gender euphoria but your therapist is way overstepping and bad at her job telling you what you are. I'd get out of there if I were you and try to talk to someone who has worked with LGBTQ+ people. From what you said maybe you could be classified as agender? There's also some good subreddits for people who are trying to understand their gender identity, hearing personal experiences can be just as useful as therapy.
it's so nice to hear that someone relates to me!! i agree it's so frustrating how much grey there is with gender. i'm sorry your therapist constantly dismisses that topic though, it sounds like you need someone to talk to who will listen with an open mind instead of jumping to conclusions.
Thank you for so deeply considering my comment, and I hope it didn’t initially leave you feeling criticized. That was the furthest thing from my intention.
no it's totally all alright! i was excited to think more deeply about the topic and reevaluate my perspective. thank you so much for commenting i always appreciate it :) sorry if i butchered the pronunciation of your username
@@beyondthespectrumpodcast If I’m being honest, I pulled it from an Australian book series as a kid, and I’m an uncultured American, so I have no idea how it’s pronounced either. 😂 I latched onto it because it was the name of a tool used in the fantasy series to restore free thought to the dead, so it really resonated with my tendency to overanalyze, overthink, etc.
For what it’s worth, I’ve always assumed it was either Bell-jay-er, like you said, or Belg-air, so you’re either right on, or only slightly off.
3:28 it's so correct! autistic people do not grasp gender in the same way just like they do with the other norms that are imposed by society. gender is a social construct and autistic people are just more likely to not care as much about the social rules. the sad thing about it is that now many people feeling like this will identify as trans/non-binary and therefore the gender stereotypes only get enforced. anyone that doesn't fit in, is indirectly getting the message they aren't a man or woman, just because they don't conform or are more/less masculine/feminine than is socially expected of them.🦔either way great video! and no worries, you are being very respectful!
Its not "sad" to experiment, many people do this with their sexuality aswell. My friends who are ttans guys still like wearing makeup and skirts. They still know they are a guy, because expression has nothing to do with identity. Most queer and gender non conforming people understand this. You can like traditionally "girl" things regardless of gender, that is the point of what this person is saying. Your gender identity is seperate from what your interests are. We as a society chose what was "manly" or "girly". I don't really understand or really like your diction. Why is it "sad" that people identify as trans? The "sad" part is not people trying to find themselves, its the overreaction to this that is sad. Being trans is hard, but calling it "sad" is very upsetting to me. I will not take it personally, but you seem to have a very incorrect point of view on this. Lile I said, I am trans and have trand friends, and while that doesnt make me the spokesperson, i can say that in MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, questioning your gender identity isnt "sad". And I have known people who thought they were trans and ended up feeling differently later. Its not as dramatic and "sad" as you are portraying it as brother. Its like any self discovery, its confusing and takes time and patience. But being trans does not enforce stereotypes anymore than cis people enforce it.
@@magicdolphin3090 💯💯
@@magicdolphin3090 thank you for your reaction and your polite wording. i'm sorry if you misunderstood my comment. i don't think it's sad that people identify as trans or that people experiment with their gender expression. there is nothing wrong with experimenting with how you dress, trying different pronouns or a different name. it can indeed be a good way to find who you are. but being trans also often comes with a medicalized process of hormones and operations, and these are not completely reversible. in my country there is a gender affirming care model, where it is not or barely taken into account that there are many causes of gender dysphoria which can't be cured by hormones and operations. ... you say it completely right, it's society who says what is manly and womanly. so yeah, it's the cis people that enforce stereotypes, but trans people do as well. for example, when an amab person who wears a lot of dresses calls themselves non-binary, they are enforcing the stereotype that men have to be manly and can't wear 'female' clothes. also i agree, i think that any human being (regardless of gender) can have any interest and express themselves in any way they want. the concept of gender identity just pushes us into boxes.
I don't think people are going to start identifying as trans or nonbinary just because they don't fit gender stereotypes. They'll possibly have a period of thinking about their gender identity and gender expression, and maybe try different pronouns as a little trial run to see what they prefer. But being trans/non binary doesn't have to do with stereotypes. For example, I'm afab nonbinary, but I still like things that are stereotypically girly, like pink and glitter, and flowers, and I like wearing dresses. But I'm not a woman because I don't feel like one, even though I like feminine things. Gender expression and gender identity aren't the same thing.
@@MoodyMickey how is a woman supposed to feel to be a woman, then? what does a gender identity consist of?
I recommend ‘Unmasking Autism’ by Devon Price 👍 it goes in depth about this topic.
i've heard of this book but unfortunately haven't found it at any nearby bookstores. i'm considering buying online! thanks for your recommendation this definitely is motivating me to read it.