Rivian R1T Max vs Large Pack 10% EV Road Trip Challenge
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
- Big thanks to Jason Altshuler, of My Electric Home, for providing the Large pack Dual Motor R1T! If you're in the Denver area, check out myelectrichome.org for your home electrification needs.
[ CHAPTERS ]
00:00 Hello and welcome
00:31 Testing procedures / differences between trucks
10:13 Charging up
25:40 Driving
38:38 Final results
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“normally we would be sideways, Jordan would crash into a curb” 😭😭👍 HAD ME ROLLING 😂
Must be nice to have the only fully functional EA charging site in the entire country right there in Denver at your disposal.
I mean they're all over. My city has one. The next major city has 3. And thats here in the Midwest.
Good for where you live. Here in the western half of Oklahoma there are only 2 EA sites, both along I-40, and there are none to the north until you get to I-70. None to the south until you get lord knows how far into Texas, several hundred miles. Of these two sites in western Oklahoma, one has 6 units and only one works, at 50 kw, and at the other site, all units are capped at 50 kw. So to have a fully functional EA site in your back yard that can output 250 kw is a rarity in these parts. @@silvy7394
@@silvy7394functional was the key word
@@silvy7394are they fully functioning is the question ❓
@@silvy7394
In Las Vegas we have one 48 kw charger.
Mad props to Jason for lending his new truck out. That was a very generous thing to do.
As an additional data point my dual motor non-performance version with large pack also threw a motor fault within the first 300 miles of owing it. In my case it was the front motor that errored out, I pulled over and did a hard reset of the truck which cleared the fault and it hasn't come back (yet lol). I did call Rivian about the issue in order to get it on my truck history in case it does come back.
Plywood tonneau is known to cause slow charging in R1T with Max pack
I love your 10% range test. After reading countless charging articles and all the ways that various journalists rate charging, I think this test is the most realistic test on what you can expect when road tripping a car.
When I look at the Google Docs chart, it gives a good picture on what you can expect. If a car goes further from 15 minutes of charging, then you're going to most likely spend less time charging on a road trip. It's pretty simple. This makes it really easy to compare vehicles.
I can't wait until you can test the big 3 row SUVs. I would LOVE to see a test of the Kia EV9, Rivian R1S, and Tesla Model X. That would just be epic. Oh also, if you can get your hands on an Ioniq 6 SE long range, that would be amazing to see too. Thank you for your videos!
Glad to see you doing 80mph tests finally. Much more realistic in highway scenarios for most poeple
Great video guys! I love how much attention to detail you put in to make sure the tests are as accurate as possible. Also Kyle making the joke about the curb… 😂
Looking forward to the next video of the max range test.
I see a lot of people questioning the benefit of the added range after watching this video. For purposes of this test, you will not see the benefit. However, the same merits of additional range are applicable: if you are in an area with limited charging infrastructure, this allows you to go farther before needing to charge. If you stop for a longer meal that allows you to charge to 100%, you will again be provided more range. If you do not have a charger at home, this could allow you a few extra days of commuting to/from work before needing to charge again. If you are on a road trip and encounter inclement weather, you would not need to stop at a charger that is not protected from rain/snow b/c you could keep driving for an additional 60 miles before needing to stop and charge. Also, if vehicle to grid energy storage becomes an option with this vehicle, the chemistry change could provide a benefit of being able to power more of your home for a longer period of time in event of power outages. Whether or not such benefits are worth an additional $10k to a given individual remains the buyer's choice, but I think it's good to have options and it's good to see car manufacturers continue to find ways that enable batteries in EVs to do more for consumers.
Merry Christmas Kyle and family and Co. Ty for the video
The real winner here is the IONIQ 5 that arrives and charges in less time than it takes Kyle to do the intro.
Haha. That’s so true. One time I thought I was being clever and decided to take a unused de rated EA charger as I only needed a little boost to make it home in the rivian. 3 back to back Ioniq 5s were done charging in the working charger next to me before I was done charging an extra 20-30%. I was so jealous.
Kyle does his stand ups the same way as the report in Starship Troopers. Haha. Great video.
So strange that this “Max” pack made it to market.
Yup and Rivian clearly changed the adjustment factor to arrive at over 400 miles of EPA range. Per EPA test, the max pack is more efficient than large which is clearly isn’t. Very glad I went with quad motor large pack for my R1S with the original pricing. I was upset when they released max pack again on R1S until I learned the specs. Max is a big miss for the nerds, most people probably have no idea about any of this.
Every time I learn more about the max pack I feel really happy that I gave up on it as soon as Rivian started being weird about it.
If it charged faster or had ~180kwh capacity, I could see the value. But ~15% more range with slower charging for $10k is a HARD NO.
I still really want an in-bed range extender generator for towing.
They didn't charge it up to the max capacity, so you wouldn't expect it to do any better.
@@jasonfournier yes you would.
@@brandenflasch Well, you would if it was more or larger cells. Usually you trade capacity (energy) density for power density in the same footprint. This was exactly what I was worried about when I learned it was just a chemistry change... Nothing for free.
Great Video,Happy Christmas Guys👍😉💪
Oh yes!! I thought I forgot something!! Merry Christmas and happy New Year!!
Merry Christmas!
Your welcome to use mine if you need one. I live next door to Coleton's shop w/ the manual tonneau cover. 20's Quad
Thank You for supporting Electric Vehicles and for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste.. 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤
As a cyclist I can tell you that crosswind out and back will make you slower for the same power, or more tired for the same speed, every time, both ways. At 80 mph the 10-20 mph typical wind of course hurts less than on a human powered vehicle going 20 mph.
Please add back and update the spreadsheet with all the cars you tested!! It hasn’t been in the description for a few of these videos or been updated recently, please bring it back it was helpful!
Great video !
Greetings from Colorado Springs.
Back in the day, I did new vehicle testing on Pikes Peak, off road on front range, I25 and highway 24 known as the loop and King of the Mountain testing.
The challenge of legends.
Nice test. Please link the Google spreadsheet in the description, it’s a good tool to compare them.
It’s not updated with the Rivian yet docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_jw_Q1ikuE93fZjRZyx0k868cyrWuiqN4ynb0uv79I8/htmlview#
Ideally i wish you had a quad motor large pack in the mix too
Can’t wait for cybertruck videos
Great video. Did a road trip from Norcal to Sedona and back in my quad motor R1T in October and averaged 2 miles per KWh on 20" AT tires. That was driving 80-85 on the freeway with 4 people and luggage. It's a great road tripper.
great scent experiment
Great video...thanks for all you are doing. More and more, the Max Pack does not look great.
You gotta hit continue!
Flat roads, nice weather in the winter…. Just come to FL to do these tests!!! I’m sure we can find you some RIVIAN loaners for the day
As an Australian, American road speeds are insane. If you went at 80 miles an hour on a highway here you would lose your licence for years instantly.
Compared to Germany, American road speeds are insanely slow.
80 miles an hour is not insane. It’s only 129 km/h. Speed limits in France are 130 km/h for example. It’s hardly breaking the speed of sound. Northern Territory in Australia also has 130 km/h speed limits
You guys should update the 10% spreadsheet and post in the description!
Merry Christmas to you all at OOS and OOSD - would love to know if Rivian ever intends to ship RHD versions to the U.K. / Australia and the other RHD markets.
Great test. Would love to see a test with two identical cars in cold weather and compare one car with precondition and another without.
Thanks, Kyle. This should be fun test! Do we know what the chemistry change was? I know that the new NCMA chemistry developed by GM-LG was making its way into 2170 cells, so I wonder whether that happened here. Cell energy density would go from ~250 Wh/kg with NCM to ~300 Wh/kg with NCMA.
Curious what the respective cell level energy densities are. Did they cheap out with the Large pack and get something well under the industry standard? Or the cheaper and safer option that won't burn a hole to inner earth when lit?
Nice vehicle!! But the problem is that it ain’t available here on the other side of the ‘Pond’!! I’m in England and have never seen one of these in England!!
World be awesome to do identical test in winter conditions with way below freezing temps.
And ambient temperatures plays a MAJOR role in range. At 40 degrees ambient temperature I lost 40 miles range at 100% charge. This has been constant with ev6 gt Ioniq 6 AWD and Kia Niro wave. Hot weather increase charging times and cold weather decreases range.
According to the EPA, the large pack has a highway MPGe of 74 and the max pack is 77. So the max pack should have been about 4% more efficient on the highway. The overall MPGe for the large pack is 78 and for the max pack it's 84 so with a mix of city and highway the EPA estimates the max pack to be about 8% more efficient.
This is because Rivian changed the adjustment factor to get 400+ miles. It’s not actually more efficient. I’m not a Rivian hater, I love my R1S quad motor.
@@McMooo587 Adjustment factor on the large pack seems to be .7072 and the max is .71153. That's a sneaky little change on Rivian's part, but it's only 0.6% difference. Not nearly enough to account for the 8% difference in EPA (overall) efficiency, or am I missing something?
"Jordan would crash into a curb" ouch…merry Xmas.
The $10k upgrade for the Max pack now seem like a dubious upgrade for those who road trip more. Perhaps that extra ~60mi maybe worthwhile for those who tow or go the extra mile, but kind of disappointing.
A shame the original promised 180 kWh max pack didn't come to fruition.
So this is more of a test about efficiency rather than testing how much further a max pack can go on a long road trip. Thus, providing both with the same amount of juice. The more efficient truck will travel further. However, the test that matters is, how much further can you really go on a full charge. How much longer does it take to charge back up the max pack versus the large pack. Do you gain enough by being able to go further and stop fewer times with the max pack to offset having to stop more times with the large pack, but likely not charging for as long at each stop since the battery capacity is lower. I’ll be looking forward to that type of test. Hence, how long does it take each truck to complete an 800 mile trip? Does the max pack offer any real world benefit in that respect?
The 15 minute charge vid was 25 minutes edited down 😀
Will these results be added to the spreadsheet?
I’m sure rivian is being conservative with the max pack because it is brand new
Once they get some data and experience they’ll have the confidence to lower the safety margins
Redo the test in a few months and the max pack will for sure perform better
I'm hoping
If the Cybertruck charging videos you've seen are from the factory, those batteries are not preconditioned. The factory appears in the background of the picture. If there are real world tests, I haven't seen them yet.
Kyle plz get a hummer suv and do this test
What are the different chemistries for the different rivian r1t battery packs? Can't seem to find an answer online other than saying all rivian batteries are lfp not sure if this is true.
Was it a difference in cost for the charge?
🍿
I would like to see the new Tesla Model Y RWD run the 10% challenge. With it's single motor and some other decontent, should be lower weight than the dual motor or long range, and reportedly has the faster charging, lower weight 2170 battery.
It probably would be more interesting if the charging curve is different. Does the Max Pack sustain a higher charge rate for longer? If so then it could be more useful on road trips than just the initial charge. Still not worth the increase price to me, but to each their own.
Did you even watch the video. Pretty much your question is what it's about
@@ericjarvis3051 video only addresses 15 minute charge. Its done for standardization not for reality. But thanks for asking.
@@omarastacio3939he says that's in the next video.
Different tyre pressures on the trucks? 50 on Jordan's. 47 on Kyle's.
Since Rivian advertises them as off road camping vehicles, could y’all do a test on battery loss when parked for a week in the winter?
They'd never let them sit for a week to do zero output of video content for a minor use case
Rivian and everyone markets it as something no one will really do. Its not off road. Everyone knows EVs have drain when it sits. even worse when cold let alone winter. It wouldnt make it past a few days even leaving the start at 100% SOC. No one does this because reality sets even in the worst mystical fairy land that owners live in because deep down EVs dont last as i already said. No one wants to get it towed.
@@anthonyc8499 not sure how you think this is a minor use case. Do you ever drive to the airport and park the vehicle there? It’s the equivalent in a winter location. I just used camping as an analogue.
@@Evan-rv9ox nobody wants to see content on a car parked for a week. Content creators don’t make money on a car they only have for a week that goes nowhere. The Rivian and every other EV will sit out in a parking lot for a week without issue. Nobody cares.
Have you got a Cybertruck for testing?
Soooo....you pay the $!0K extra, get a bit of extra initial range (but leave more on the table as 10% is more), charge not a lot faster in mph and after a 15 minute stop you can drive the same again? Time advantage over a mid distance trip...15 minutes, over a day long trip...5 minutes? No minutes?
What’s the code for service mode?
What is the use case for getting the Max Pack? It seems like it will only help you on the first leg of a road trip where you are going 100% down to almost empty. Otherwise it doesn’t seem very useful.
The use case is: "We've promised something with 400 miles of range, we need to ship something without breaking the bank or costing us more R&D." If you have the means and $10k is pocket change or absolutely need every mile for regular long distrance travel then the Max Pack is for you. I just see more people fitting in the $10k is not a major expense bucket than needing every single mile.
For that kind of vehicles must be used Solid State Battery with capacity at least 140kWh
“No one does that in the real world.” - I hear you say after I did multiple 0-100-0 charge-drive legs a month ago during a trip towing with my Rivian. 😆 (Yeah, a couple of those long stretches without charging had some major pucker-factor.)
Long distance towing is where the max pack should have an advantage because it requires high states of charge. To get the same number of miles as a 100% charge on the large pack you only have to charge the max to 86%. That would be much faster.
@@stevehuthman741 Yeah, but the few extra towing miles isn’t worth the upgrade to me.
No one sane, does that.
@@jasonfournier That is also correct.
Awesome test comparison, looks 10 k is a bust on this test and not worth the extra money.
When are Rivian switching to nacs?
very curious has,, ea stations become more reliable?? ,,not hearing much about ea anymore one way or other
INMO. Not worth the $10,000 additional for the MAX Pack.
So one of them cost $18 vs $25 to charge?
Can you please add kilometre metrics in the video?
See InsideEVs story from 12/26: "Rivian R1T Owner Says His Truck Has Been Out For Repairs For Eight Months for a damaged side camera"
What I'd really like to see is a real world range test between a dual motor and a quad motor running in conserve mode. Surprises me no one has done that yet. At least that I can find
With so many wheel / tire configurations it’s hard to find all of the exact matches
Agree. The issue w the quad motor is that I frequently forget to use conserve mode on long road trips, and when I do use conserve, I don’t like how it greatly reduces the acceleration. I wonder if the non performance dual motor would out accelerate the quad in conserve mode, especially 60-80mph for hwy passing.
Wow that comment about Jordan and the curb was mean. Lol.
I have the (current) "worst case" Rivian, Large Pack, Quad Motor, 20" wheels w/ AT tires. I even have the underbody reinforcement for a little extra vehicle weight.
And I tow with it. My old 28' trailer, my new 18' trailer, a small boat trailer, a small cargo trailer (made from the 8' bed of an old pickup.) I have 18,000 miles on it, and by my best estimate, half of those miles are towing.
You'd think I'd be the perfect target for the Max Pack. But for only ~50 more miles when towing? And realistically only "40 miles per normal road trip charge session"? Not worth it. Even if they offered me pre-price-increase pricing and 100%-original-purchase-price trade-in.
Now, if they did like the originally-planned† case where the Max Pack was a physically larger pack? *THEN* add in the increased-density-chemistry and more efficient motors? Where it might be 450-500 miles base range? That might interest me. Maybe in 4-6 years when I'll be ready for replacement they'll have that. (And the NACS transition is well and firmly done with a majority of even non-Tesla DC charge stations mostly NACS.)
† The R1T has a longer wheelbase than the R1S. In the R1S, the battery pack fills the whole space between the axles. In the R1T, there is empty space, basically the exact size of two of the Rivian's battery sub-modules. (The pack has 8 sub-modules.) When originally announced, the R1S wasn't supposed to get the Max Pack at all, it would be an R1T exclusive. The R1T Max was supposed to have 25% more range than Large, and 10 modules is a 25% increase in modules. While Rivian never specifically said Max Pack would be the physically larger pack that fills the extra space between the axles, it was rather obvious that was what was intended. Instead, "Max Pack" achieves the 20% increase in range over the original Large Pack partly by moving to the more efficient dual-motor setup, and partly via a slight bump in battery density on the same size pack.Which is why the dual-motor Large pack is already about a 7% increase in range over quad Large. And the Max Pack only 16% more on the same powertrain. Which is _also_ why Rivian only offers Max on the more efficient dual-motor. Because it wouldn't be able to hit the promised 400 mile range on the less efficient quad motor.
If this were TFLEV they would add a cyber truck with a parachute.
$29 for 20 percent worth of charge?
its cheaper to drive gasoline with the prices right now.
Charging at home is about 4 times cheaper than dc fast charging
Kyle, what’s up with your phone? It seems to have an issue with stabilization as you often see green bars at the bottom with large movements. Jordan’s phone actually looks better overall as well. I know you were having phone problems, so good luck!
In virture signaling poker, is it a more virtuous hand to have a pair electric trucks on the drive, or a S3X flush of Teslas?
Conclusion: buy the smallest pack.
Conclusion: buy a hybrid Toyota got it right.
Looks like charging curve in max pack is best from 20 to 80 percent. So maybe a comparison with both trucks charging from 20 to 80 percent and then take a road trip doing that? Max might start to make a lot more sense in that real world type experiment. ua-cam.com/video/rQlZ-5BuixQ/v-deo.htmlsi=untCjnLb0khyUttU
What about the people who don't drive that fast and would have greater range.
The fact that you hold your phones to record while driving drivings me irrationally crazy. There has to be a safer way
Totally agree.
45 minute video to say the range was nearly identical?
I do not drive over 65 mph!
Until all evs have nacs built into them, it's only tesla for me.
25 minutes of preamble before you event start the trip. that is waaay too much preamble. :(
is there kyle's phone number being leaked on video? maybe blur it?
I hope that clear shot of a phone number wasn't anyone important.
Why wouldn’t they be the same in this test? You aren’t testing anything that would be different between the two unless you test total range. The whole point is you get more range on a full charge with Max Pack - beyond that for shorter trip like this of course they are identical.
This test reflects the way experienced EV road trippers drive. Especially the two doing the testing. They would never sit around waiting for the vehicle to charge up to 100%. It would increase the total trip time by hours.
It would certainly be nice to see a full road trip test. But this is about as close as we'll get in the US, as full road trip tests are extremely time intensive.
As far as I'm aware, only Bjørn Nyland does them, and he's in Norway where they buy lots of EVs, but they don't drive pickups much.
@@davidmenasco5743 but why would we expect this test to be any different? And here the thing - many EV owners DO charge to 100% at home before a long trip and the max pack can save you a stop. I have the quad and just made it to my cabin that is 186 miles from home with only 18 miles of range left at 32 degrees outside.
@@franksmartin1 a larger pack would reasonably be expected to charge faster at the same cell level C rate
If they charge at the same %/min the Max should get more miles for the same charging time. If they charge at the same kwh/min then the Max only has a longer initial range and road tripping is nearly identical. We'll see Kyle's future vids where he'll compare the full charging curves to see which it is.
Jordan the plaid wrecker lol
Come to Las Vegas. Let me know if you can find just One charger over 48kw. I don’t care where in vegas or Henderson but it’s got to be working. Bet you can’t. Most are maxed at 6.8kw. A tad better than home AC charging.if Any one wants to buy an EV Las Vegas is the place to buy. Dealers can’t give them away because there is no where to charge them.
The Rivian charging station in Las Vegas will give you up to 212KW if you have a Rivian.
The Tesla charging stations in Las Vegas will give you up to 250kW if you have a Tesla.
I wish they would build something cheaper for the poors.
And for some reason all manufacturers are cutting back EV production currently,why waste the time buying one right now?
Lol this basically proved that the max pack is worthless
It proves more than that. It proves extra range adds little extra value. It's the charging curve that largely determines the road trip experience.
@@davidmenasco5743 to me if it added 500 miles instead of just 400 it would be worth the cost and could be called a max pack because it would have actual value all the r&d they spent on this pack was money wasted for just adding 50 extra miles
My god you talk so much and say so little
lol I still love it. Reminds me of trying to load up numbers of words for college lol
i can only watch a few minutes of his videos before his voice starts to wear me down. His dad is easier to listen to but rambles a lot too and is always talking about mt kisco.
Just a little constructive criticism, please stop calling these real world test especially if you are going to complain about someone else on the road messing up your test.
It’s not that what you’re testing isn’t interesting or informative but this isn’t even close to being real world. If you really wanted to do a real world test it would be during the day, you wouldn’t care about wind, you would do it in such a way that you do at minimum two charging stops & if there’s traffic all the better because guess what, in the real world all of those things apply. What that’s test are is as scientifically as possible not being on a closed track but it isn’t real.
That's why they do the Race to Vegas series.
@@SpottedSharks that still doesn’t change the fact that they are calling this real world. What they are doing is fine, they just need to stop calling it real world because it’s not. Also, this isn’t just them, way to many other UA-cam channels will do mileage loops (ICE or EV) & call them real world when they aren’t because NOBODY just fills up, gets on the highway & comes back to where they fills up.
The real world includes traffic & different weather conditions.
@@kenyattaclay7666 Yes, that's what the R2V does. Drive to Vegas on public highways, max speed is speed limit+5, deal with rain, traffic, and charge up like anyone else. Can you design something more real than that?
@@SpottedSharks you’re still it getting it, this video issue one hour referencing. This is a COMPLETELY different video. This is a COMPLETELY different subject. This is NOT that video. How hard is that to understand. Stop being thinking of that video. This VIDEO & this video ONLY is NOT about a Vegas trip. This video & this video ONLY is nothing more than a testing loop. This video & this video ONLY does not simulate a REAL WORLD road trip. If they didn’t use the words REAL WORLD in this video & ONLY this video I wouldn’t have an issue. If they had just stuck to calling it a testing loop in this video & this video ONLY they would’ve been fine.
Do you now understand?
@@kenyattaclay7666 Yes, this video is not a "real world" test. No one said it was. R2V is a real world test. It's perfectly okay to have more than one kind of test for EVs.
What Kyle needs to do is make videos NOT highlighting the .01% of locations that have the worlds greatest chargers. Instead Kyle needs to focus on 99.98% of the country that has no charging. He and his videos are painting a picture of owning a EV that simply NOT true. And his inaccurate content could prod someone into EV purchase only to have them to discover the pure hell they will actually experience in the real world when they can not charge the damn thing. Even the CEO of ford last week drove the pickup EV from i believe san Diego to here in vegas. Publish his response… it was “rough”. It was a disaster. Come on Kyle show us the truth in 99.98% of geographically locations. Your not to far from vegas. Come on down and experience the reality of charging..
He has a ton of videos that demonstrate this and even a podcast. Not sure how you got that opinion from probably just watching 10secs of this video
@@NoHarmDunn
Simple it’s watching every video. What’s also very simple if content was made of reality there would be one video. Called-> Charging in the US is non existence check back in twenty years. No more videos. No need for out of spec channel. One video would depict reality in 99.89% of this county. Instead the content is endless video after video showing chargers in .01% in this country.
When the CEO of ford tells you it sucks that’s all anyone needs to know. As well done as Kyle’s videos are they probably are doing more harm than good. They might have a very naive person his videos are real, go buy a EV then within 48 hours realize oh shit I have no place to charge. I’ve lost count of people I personally know this has happened. This is why the dealers have stock piles of all EV’s on the lots they can’t give away. And what does this do for us suckers whom first adopters? We have near worthless vehicles we can’t get half of what we paid even a month ago. These are the videos and content he needs to make. Let’s have the truth..
@@NoHarmDunn
And to further bolster my point. Last week it was announced HALF of Buick dealers elected to be bought out by Buick rather than sell EV vehicles. That is a staggering dose of the reality and the truth on where this country is adopting EV’s. HALF. EV’s in any generation within this century will be for the 1% of the population. I own 3. In in that 1%. But I’m not the norm. And everyone watching these silly unrealistic videos are also not the norm and do not represent 99% of this country’s buying public regarding EV’s. Toyota got it right. Hybrids are the future. I think plug in hybrid is the best option.
@@uutube243 Ford did that drive a long time ago and it was reported on when it happened. Also this not reality in 99.89% of the country. Maybe you got burned being in ND or something but in my state charging is robust and improving.
Anyone that takes an EV on a road trip has a screw loose. And I charge my Ioniq 6 to 100% every night. There is NO worry of battery degradation because in six months when this battery technology is outdated you get a new EV.
Thanks for the FUD, but no thanks.
I did a 2k mile trip in my Tesla last month and it was a breeze.
?? We have an ICE car we could use on road trips .. but we prefer our EV since it is more powerful, responsive, and fun. Plus way cheaper. Until you drive one I guess you wouldn’t know though.
@@solarguy4850totally agree. Now I find the constant droning of an ICE so annoying. Much prefer the tranquility of an EV, even w the hassle of fast charging.
"Allegedly"