Mixing question(studio) how loud should be a signal going into bus compressor? What would be a start point for threshold? Thanks for this i keep finding your old videos, they are golden.
Great question! I don't think there's an exact answer, it's a matter of taste. To much compression will squash the life out of the music, to little won't give you enough control. As a starting point, I would suggest about 30 ms attack, 300 ms release, ratio of 4:1 then adjust threshold so it's reducing gain by about 6db, up to 10db on the loudest peaks. Then from that point tweak the ratio and threshold controls for a bit less or more depending upon what sounds best to you.
HMM. This might be the solution to my randomness of songs during DJing. I'm gonna try compressing the ddj-800 and see if it keeps the low end managed between genres. A lot of the time I'll switch from a older produced rap song to newer produced and the difference is tough to manage. ESPECIALLY the low end, since they used less than desirable bass samples back in the day ha.
For that application, I would suggest setting the attack and release times of the compression to rather slow values. That way the compressor won't kick in quickly and squish the dynamics of the music, but it will gently slowly raise or lower the gain so that loud tracks are reduced a bit in volume, and the quiet tracks are gently lifted so you have more consistent playback level overall.
I have not measured or noticed distortion. 10db is getting into some heavy gain reduction, I suppose it's possible to overload the front end and cause distortion if your input signal level is very high. I tend to use manual attack/decay settings, and with that I've had no complaints with the unit adding any obvious artifacts to the sound. I think I have decent ears, but hey, you might be more of an audiophile than I am.
I'm sure you have used the fx units I'm talking about here,what are your thoughts on the Yamaha spx90 and the lexicon mx 200, maybe you can do a video on these fx units for us older guys, your knowledge is so helpful to me and I'm sure other viewers, just a thought, thank you so much for your time and effort!
Both of those have worked well for me, the one that I preferred and had in my rack was the TC electronic M One and M300. When using the X32 mixer, I use the built-in effects.
I use the built in compression features of digital mixers regularly I have no issue with that. I'd have to know more about the particular piece of equipment that you're looking at so I can't authoritatively comment on it. Personally, I'm not a fan of Bose, it's a brand I would never buy or use if I had a choice. (see my video on Bose)
Barry, i just bought used rack compressor. Dbx266 (old version) i want to put it between the mixer L&R output and PA. (1 or 2 vocalists plus acoustic guitar accompaniment track ) Is this an acceptable practice or should i apply compression at microphone 🎤 s ?
Certainly. I've used compressors on both channels, and main outputs. How I set it up I use the main output compressors as soft limiters on the system. So I'd have a fairly high compression ratio, maybe 8 to 1, with a soft knee enabled so the hard compression comes in gently at first. I would set the threshold so I am just barely starting to touch compression at a typical show, at normal levels. So, generally the compressor has no impact on the outputs however if something starts getting excessively loud, or you have somebody aggressive at the controls trying to push for really high levels then the compressor starts to come in and gently keeps the system from going extreme. This makes the volume control feel like it sort of mushes out on the top 3rd of the fader, As you push really high the band starts to sound a little more thick than louder. Just a little touch of compression on the mains makes the band sound a little bit thicker, with a little higher average output level, and I think that's actually a good sound for a typical rock and roll live show. Plus, it offers a bit of system protection in case somebody does something unexpectedly extremely loud.
Barry, Im an amateur singer and will be auditioning w/ a simalar (amatuer) type band. I have a mic mechanic so will that help "condition" my singing or will a processor like Focusrite help me?
As a sound guy I don't dig when people put those in-line effects on vocal mics, since I then don't have clean signals to work with. I get a vocal swamped with cheesy reverb and I can't do anything about it. Arrgh. It's best to let the sound tech apply the needed effects... if you have a tech. If you don't have a tech, then those boxes may have a place. When it comes to effects, less is more. Like cosmetics, just a touch in the right places can make things shine, but too much just quickly gets ugly. My advice is to set those effects a bit lower than you probably think you need. If you can clearly hear the effects all the time on the vocals, most often for me, that's too much. A teeny bit of plate-reverb tends to thicken up the less than amazing vocalists. If you're not completely satisfied with your vocal performance, I wouldn't be looking for electronic magic, I think money is better spent on an hour or two of professional vocal coaching. Improving your vocal skills will reward you regardless what equipment you find yourself using in the future. Best wishes for your audition!
This is hands down the best explanation of a limiter compressor that I have been able to find. Thank you !
Wow, thanks!
I agree. I’ve never heard ratio explained that way and it makes way more sense to me. Thanks a bunch.
Awesome! Glad it helped.
This channel is underrated. Amazing information.
Thank you! I appreciate that!
I hope you choose to subscribe, and watch more.
Great stuff! Very detailed lecture! And your voice is also very pleasant and calm)
Thank you!
Thank you for your time 👍👍 please show how it is hooked up to the mixer.. Thank you
That's covered in this video: ua-cam.com/video/5KmvxKBxBwk/v-deo.html
Probably the best video ive seen, so well explained
Thanks!
Good content,great explanation, thank you for your time
Thanks!
great explanation sir
Thank you!
@@Barry-Watson Sir could You please explain about delay, reverb and it's parameter
Thanks for the suggestion!
Mixing question(studio) how loud should be a signal going into bus compressor? What would be a start point for threshold? Thanks for this i keep finding your old videos, they are golden.
Great question! I don't think there's an exact answer, it's a matter of taste. To much compression will squash the life out of the music, to little won't give you enough control. As a starting point, I would suggest about 30 ms attack, 300 ms release, ratio of 4:1 then adjust threshold so it's reducing gain by about 6db, up to 10db on the loudest peaks. Then from that point tweak the ratio and threshold controls for a bit less or more depending upon what sounds best to you.
HMM.
This might be the solution to my randomness of songs during DJing.
I'm gonna try compressing the ddj-800 and see if it keeps the low end managed between genres.
A lot of the time I'll switch from a older produced rap song to newer produced and the difference is tough to manage. ESPECIALLY the low end, since they used less than desirable bass samples back in the day ha.
For that application, I would suggest setting the attack and release times of the compression to rather slow values. That way the compressor won't kick in quickly and squish the dynamics of the music, but it will gently slowly raise or lower the gain so that loud tracks are reduced a bit in volume, and the quiet tracks are gently lifted so you have more consistent playback level overall.
very comprehensive explanation....
have you experienced some distortion with this unit ,when there is heavy compression above 10db?
I have not measured or noticed distortion. 10db is getting into some heavy gain reduction, I suppose it's possible to overload the front end and cause distortion if your input signal level is very high. I tend to use manual attack/decay settings, and with that I've had no complaints with the unit adding any obvious artifacts to the sound.
I think I have decent ears, but hey, you might be more of an audiophile than I am.
I'm sure you have used the fx units I'm talking about here,what are your thoughts on the Yamaha spx90 and the lexicon mx 200, maybe you can do a video on these fx units for us older guys, your knowledge is so helpful to me and I'm sure other viewers, just a thought, thank you so much for your time and effort!
Both of those have worked well for me, the one that I preferred and had in my rack was the TC electronic M One and M300. When using the X32 mixer, I use the built-in effects.
@Barry Watson Thank you for your reply, good to know
Barry, do you think a digital mixer, like a Bose (to be used with Bose PA) is a good as rack compressor?
I use the built in compression features of digital mixers regularly I have no issue with that.
I'd have to know more about the particular piece of equipment that you're looking at so I can't authoritatively comment on it. Personally, I'm not a fan of Bose, it's a brand I would never buy or use if I had a choice. (see my video on Bose)
@@Barry-Watson I do understand about bose. Good point. I look forward to looking at that video
Thank you!
Barry, i just bought used rack compressor. Dbx266 (old version) i want to put it between the mixer L&R output and PA. (1 or 2 vocalists plus acoustic guitar accompaniment track )
Is this an acceptable practice or should i apply compression at microphone 🎤 s ?
Certainly. I've used compressors on both channels, and main outputs.
How I set it up I use the main output compressors as soft limiters on the system. So I'd have a fairly high compression ratio, maybe 8 to 1, with a soft knee enabled so the hard compression comes in gently at first.
I would set the threshold so I am just barely starting to touch compression at a typical show, at normal levels. So, generally the compressor has no impact on the outputs however if something starts getting excessively loud, or you have somebody aggressive at the controls trying to push for really high levels then the compressor starts to come in and gently keeps the system from going extreme.
This makes the volume control feel like it sort of mushes out on the top 3rd of the fader, As you push really high the band starts to sound a little more thick than louder.
Just a little touch of compression on the mains makes the band sound a little bit thicker, with a little higher average output level, and I think that's actually a good sound for a typical rock and roll live show. Plus, it offers a bit of system protection in case somebody does something unexpectedly extremely loud.
@BarryWatsonAudio thank you Barry ! :)
Barry, Im an amateur singer and will be auditioning w/ a simalar (amatuer) type band. I have a mic mechanic so will that help "condition" my singing or will a processor like Focusrite help me?
As a sound guy I don't dig when people put those in-line effects on vocal mics, since I then don't have clean signals to work with. I get a vocal swamped with cheesy reverb and I can't do anything about it. Arrgh.
It's best to let the sound tech apply the needed effects... if you have a tech. If you don't have a tech, then those boxes may have a place.
When it comes to effects, less is more. Like cosmetics, just a touch in the right places can make things shine, but too much just quickly gets ugly. My advice is to set those effects a bit lower than you probably think you need. If you can clearly hear the effects all the time on the vocals, most often for me, that's too much. A teeny bit of plate-reverb tends to thicken up the less than amazing vocalists.
If you're not completely satisfied with your vocal performance, I wouldn't be looking for electronic magic, I think money is better spent on an hour or two of professional vocal coaching. Improving your vocal skills will reward you regardless what equipment you find yourself using in the future.
Best wishes for your audition!