The ULTIMATE black & white conversion for a DRAMATIC look
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Download the RAW files to work alongside me here:
www.joelgrimes...
I love learning something new every day, and I hope you do as well! Recently someone asked me how I achieve the ultimate Black and White conversion. Well, I have tested several options in Photoshop and other programs to do just that and often revisit the topic to see if something new has come down the pike.
I still find that capturing an HDR and processing it in 32 bit is undoubtedly the best way to get the greatest number of tones and the smoothest gradients possible.
In this tutorial, I'll teach you my entire workflow, and I have made available the raw files of an image of Death Valley, so you can follow along as I go through the process.
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I prefer an instructor that admits they are still learning. Thumbs up.
Always learning, even if not gracefully at times 🤓
One of the things I love the most about Joel Grimes? He has the ability to show you and make you believe that anything is possible. Joel is my photography hero.
🦸♂️
Fantastic presentation! Thank you!
Thank you very much for sharing your expert knowledge - you have another subscriber. I started bracketing my exposures about 20 years ago to increase dynamic range. Back then you needed special software to obtain the 32 bit file and make adjustments to it. I had several successful photos using that method, mainly for colour work. But I stopped using it because of the complicated workflow. Your video has inspired me to go 32 bit again especially for B&W. Thanks for giving me something new to work on.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you. I am a beginner and probably didn't understand half of it, but I still found it a valuable lesson.
Glad it was helpful!
Love your work Joel, terrific content as usual, but I do have to make two points about this video. 1: Please attend to the background noise, it's quite off-putting and is easy enough to avoid. 2. You say Lightroom defaults to 8-bit and sRGB. This is a bit misleading - LR works internally in high bit depth and in a version of Prophoto RGB so as to maintain all the bit depth (12, 14 or 15) and colours of the raw file. What you say is only true on export or on sending to Photoshop when, yes, it defaults to 8-bit and sRGB.
What a great video! Thanks for taking the time and for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great Tutorial Joel! Yes you are correct, there is always some smart arse out there who thinks he know better than you to achieve better results! Been following your superb work for many years now & I cannot understand why you only have 60K subs? Crazy.
Because he is insufferable and not relatable. Ugh.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Thanks for the feedback
A lot to think about and experiment with after watching this video. I will have to watch it a couple of times to absorb it all. Thanks for sharing.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Amazing work, thank you for sharing again, Joel...
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Thanks Joel, always good to learn new things and better ways, and your vids don't disappoint!
Roger
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
There so much to learn but it is worth racking your brains if you want to master the art. Love black and white, digital imaging have come a long way, I remember that I would swear nothing beats film when it comes to black and white. Now,, it's a whole different story with digitals. Kind of missed being in the darkroom but as the song goes, "Everything Must Change." Joe, thanks for sharing.
my pleasure! thanks for watching, eddie!
Great job Joel thank you for teaching us!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Great tutorial,Joel. I have been shooting hdr since the late aughts. I started photography in the days of loading film in canisters and boxes in complete darkness, praying for no light leak, using enlargers, and watching my images appear in a tray of chemicals. The majority of manipulation was complete at that point. Push processing, dodging and burning. then the silver was set. Sometimes redoing, reshooting, or learning a hard lesson. I was also a computer geek, a gym rat, a rugged, and had a professor who saw the march of photoshop in the mid 90’s. I enjoyed this tutorial, and I like what we do similar, as well as gained some useful information to test out. Thanks for this, I definitely admire your knowledge, and desire to pass it on. Two thumbs up from me! Going to look int PT GUI(sp?) Also, a reason to go make another hdr shoot.
thank you!!
Good as always Joel, as was your class I took a couple years ago. Good fun too. The subject of HDR always entails the very next issue of multi-exposure subject(s) movement. HDR has a lot of value, but things that move can be quite challenging in terms of sharpness. Its kinda tricky depending on what is being photographed. ;-)
I use this in all my work and totally agree it can be a challenge. but worth the headache in my eyes!
I never realy understoot it, but now i do, thanks so much!!!
I love processing my landscapes in B & W but new there was a better way. I've found out what I was missing. Very excited to see the results after I apply your brilliant technique.
amazing! You're welcome! Thanks for watching
What Grimes calls grain is actually called banding. The addition of a small amount of noise gets rid of the banding.
Learned something new! 32 bit is the way to go!!!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Joel, it would be nice to have a flattened file to be able to follow your editing techniques at the end, as I do not have PTGUI. That would be awesome. Excellent tutorial!
i'll keep it in mind for future episodes. Thanks for the feedback!
Informative, easy to understand...and focused on the editing. thank you for these videos.
Thanks for watching!
I should have also mentioned that I appreciate your humility. So many photographers have heads that won’t fit through the doorway!
UA-cam compression isn't doing this tutorial any favors.
really that's your take away
Very nice video my man! Definitely learned a new tip!
Good video. I wish there were more videos like this that talked to pros or advanced photographers. Too many are geared for the amateur.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Joe, i believe you can convert your photos first as smart objects by importing them to photoshop at the beginning and doing the rest from there.
Excellent as usual, keep well.
Many thanks!
Thank you very much for this video.
Very nice content.
I would say that Lightroom uses only the ProPhoto color space in its developer and that you can only change that parameter in the export settings but not in the import or developing settings.
Deep - love it Joel
Thanks, Robert!
Thank you I have so much to lean and you have helped me.
Glad to hear it!!
Long time no see. My lighting hero...🙂. Extremly informative. Greetings from Germany.
Thanks
Thank you very much for sharing your skills!
My pleasure!
Thank you so much Joel
you are so welcome!
Hi Joel Really enjoyed your video I knew I little about bit but not 100% really sure .
32 bit Excellent I like shooting old churches does it make a lot of difference in colour close of flowers..
Rick I’m in Australia you should visit here..
Hello. I can't see how to align the images in bridge when merge to HDR pro. Can you advise please. Thanks for uploading. Regards Barrie
Great image and a reminder of why I hate Photoshop so much. I'll get an image and come back to this.
Doing the HDR work in PS 32-bit/ACR still results in a 16-bit image. Isn't that exactly like the workflow when doing the HDR merge and adjustments in Lightroom and then outputting to PS?
Thank you very much😝 these videos is making my day and is making my photography better 😂😱
Happy to hear that!
Thank you, so good. I'm going to re-work an HDR Glacier NP (4 images) (Nikons D810 NEF) and reprint it (Epson Stylus Pro 4800 / Epson Platine paper) 16" x 24" color and see how things smoooooth out. ACR has radial, gradient, subject, sky, brushes . . . masks, now. Are they the same as working layers and masks in PS? So much to learn!!
the new interface can be used a bit like layers in PS, yes
The Fuji GFX 100/100s also shoot in 16bit. A lot cheaper than a Hasselblad with a Leaf back
Agree
When opening the file in Photoshop after the HDR Pro merge, is not allowing me to do the B&W conversion (adjustment layer) is it because is it in 32 Bit?
Another great, informative video :)
Thanks
I was unable to catch how to down the raw file from this video. Can I get some help?
link is in the description
This was an excellent tutorial. What software did you use to stitch your photos? I couldn't catch the name. Thanks for going through the B&W workflow. I can't wait to try this.
Got it, thanks
Would you consider using the Camera Raw filter in Photoshop to edit the stiched panorama? Great tutorial tho! I had no idea you could make it 32 bit. Now i just need a monitor ;)
Phenomenal presentation. What separation on ev are you using?
Great tutorial thanks. Are you running Big Sur on your mac?
great tutorial
Thank you! Cheers!
Amazing, thanks really interesting
Glad you enjoyed it
A bit confused, where do you actually change the bit depth? At the time you create the HDR?
Great video, just about to start some of your tutorials i bought
Awesome, thank you!
Joel, very interesting and instructive video. How to to HDR in similar way with long exposure images?
I bracket my ISO using the CamRange. That way my time stays the same.
Thank you, Joel. This is worthwhile.
Hi Joel! Thanks for an informative video - as usual! :) I'd like to ask one thing - is this 32-bit conversion only available via Bridge? It seems that Lightroom does not offer any bit depth setting during a HDR merge process.
Yes, you can work from Lightroom and do the exact same thing, I don't use Lightroom, but I know the option is there.
I never use Lightroom or Bridge, but I'm going to check into Bridge. I shoot raw only, start in camera raw, and move to Photoshop, except for portraits, which I usually shoot in Capture One. For me personally, Lr. is a pain to use Anything I think may be printed in the future is edited in 16 bit raw and saved as a .tif file. * It may be smooth, but coming across mt monitor, there seemed to be some banding in the gradient. * P.T. Gooey?
For some reason the image I open in PS doesn't look like the image I had in ACR. It's either too bright or too dark. Damn! Any idea what's going on there?
Joel I downloaded the files and followed along with video and noticed immediately after adjusting the Blue slider while in ACR that a white halo appears along the mountain edge. I believe this is due to a difference in the blue tones right alone the edge, but question is this normal when you do this process, and if so do you just use the clone stamp tool on darken after the merge to clean up the edge or do you use a different process to clean up the halo? Greatly appreciate the info on the 32 bit process.
Yes, I get those too. You have to pull back the blue slider a bit and then use a gradient to continue to darken the sky. In some cases I go back and retouch out the white line. If the image is really amazing it is worth the time.
Can’t find an adjustment in LR to change the bit depth. Only for external editors
In a raw editor like LR you work with the full set of data that your camera have recorded for you. If you want to be sure to have the highest bit depth possible you should check what your camera is capable of and set it to record your images with that bit depth. But the drawback is it produces much larger files than say what a 12 bit with lossless compression does.
The option to choose different bit depth become important when you export from LR (or any other raw editor). If your aim is to do further editing in say Photoshop or Affinity I strongly suggest you export in 16 bit and with a colour profile like AdobeRGB 1998 or ProPhoto RGB to avoid too much degradation as you move along with further edits. If you’re doing a HDR composite make sure that your software for that output is set to 32 bit from that process, like was shown in this excellent video.
In my experience, extreme darkening (and resulting noise) isn't the biggest issue. Halos start to appear much sooner, than aforementioned noise, around contours and such. Can this 32 bit workflow help with that?
So does the color space selected on the camera play a role in this? On my 7Dii it is set to sRGB. Should this be on Adobe RGB or this doesn't matter since the Adobe setting is more important?
Thank you for the video ☺️
Hi Shola. It doesn't matter what color space do you set in your camera, as it is not 'baked in" any way to the RAW file. You set one for the preview on your camera's back-screen. Color space or color profile is set to help the medium (in that case - your computer's monitor) render colors in a particular way.
Hey joe. Very interesting video.
I just tried to set up an HDR image from Bridge but, it doesn’t come up with the “ complete toning in Adobe” check box.
It comes up with a bunch of other sliders instead. Any ideas? Cheers 🍻
You need to check 32 bit, you must be in either 8 bit or 16 bit mode.
@@joelgrimes Hi Joel. Thanks heaps for replying.
I was definitely in 32bit but I just ran the latest update for PS and it seems to be all good now.
Great vid and I’ll definitely trying it out, cheers.
Be well and stay healthy mate 🍺
I find shooting bracketed portraits requires very calm models that do not blink…
Just Fantastik!
I was working on a Sky and Landscape images right now.
My system is on 16bit, but this 32bit from HDR Pro is great.
Nice video JG.
Thanks
A query if I may. Once you have done all the modifications on 16 bits, do you leave it as it is, or do you return to 8 bits ?
I only convert to an 8 bit file if it is going to the web.
@@joelgrimes Many thanks !
So if I shoot with a Sony a7riv in uncompressed raw and the AdobeRGB, is it still necessary to shoot multiple images processed as hdr to get the full depth for B&W? My understanding is that I'm getting a 14bit image. I import it into light room with the AdobeRGB 1998 color space.
Hi Alisha! Color space or color profile is not 'attached' anyhow to the RAW file. It's just a representation of the colors on the medium you're looking them at (in this case - your computer's monitor). So you can set it up to whatever you want - preferably maximum possible. It helps out especially with gradients and gradient masks.
To increase you cameras 14 bit depth, yes you have to shoot an HDR. If you have a camera that shoots in 16 bit then for most scenarios you would be fine.
Guess I can't do this with Photoshop Elements. Won't let me work on a 16 bit image.
Sorry about that.
Brilliant as always Joel. Strait to the computer for me 😂👍
Joel: Can this be done in Lightroom
Your tutorial expands on HDR and 32bit and was enlightening, however you offer NO reference at all to your B&W conversion method (your Title)...personally letting ACR do the conversion is not a good path to go and is a mistake
The whole idea of this tutorial is that if you increase you bit depth, then you, as a result, get smother tones in you image, especially if you convert to Black and White. That is the secret to getting all your smooth gradients and tonal values. I guess I should have made that more clear. Sorry about that.
@@joelgrimes your approach with 32 bit and merge to HDR will definitely find its way into my work flow! As for B&W, I use color balance, selective color, and hue/saturation to shape the color and finish with a gradient map. Duotone as a smart object is worthy as well. Your UA-cam channel is very well crafted and aI am a subscriber...thank you!
The ultimate black and white conversion I get is when I shoot black and white on sheet film and make prints in the dark.
Go figure
Nothing will replace that magic!
All over the place blabla.
thanks for the feedback
Curious how you manage to shoot hdr portraits? Do you just have them lock position? But you are shooting with flash. How do you get through the brackets without subject movement?
wow, when normies try to understand computers ... switching color spaces and bit depths in non destructive editing is cargo cult behavior
Very nice, thanks for your help. hope one day i can be a pro and make a living and just be happy. thanks a lot from Spain.
Keep at it, you will
Joel you’re a master, I got lots to learn from you. Tippy!
hi joel PS now supporting 32bit right? can you do a video pls
How to turn your snapshots in to post apocalyptic hellscapes.
Hard to see the difference between 8/16/32 bit because of the youtube compression. To record the video in 4k instead of fullhd should help to estimate the effect also.
thanks for the feedback
Hey Joel, great video, very informative. Question: why wouldn't you wait to process the images after they had been stitched together rather than copying settings and applying them to the remaining images?
I think both work. Whatever workflow suits I guess
Wow, you really go full Monty.
Hello Joel Grimes, watching this video I was just wondering how you are able to shoot portraits in HDR, i.e. bracketing three shots. The subjects would have to remain very still during the three exposures, especially the facial expressions. How is this achieved? thanks and have a nice day, Heiko Knoll Germany
Modern cameras take bracketed shots very quickly, I think the models manage to stay still during that time :)
@@NunoBorgesPhotos thank you for the reply 👍
Try using a flash that is capable of taking bracketing shots.
@@beckyholt accurately I hadn't thought about that. Thank you!
I have many courses on this, as long as you work quickly it works great!
A true 10-bit monitor is quite expensive. Most of 10-bit monitors out there are 8-bit + FRC to mimic 10-bit display. B&W conversion video for a 8-bit monitor will be more helpful
Thank you Sir -- much to consider . I always think black and white editing is harder than colour as there are so many variables to the final image --- was the same in the old dark room I feel .
Is it then a better idea to do most of the processing in LR instead of PS? LS will process the HDR in 32 bits afaik, and has tools such as radial and linear gradients.
Hi joe, do you make use of "expose to the right" when shooting people?
Instead of having three exposures?
I used the zone system too, and adapted a form of it to roll film. I still use another form it in digital to get exposures right in camera. Bit depth and color space can be set in Photoshop also. And for printing the best paper available is necessary. After a lot of expensive testing I use Canson and Hahnemuhle exclusively. Good video! I've picked up some things I hadn't thought of before, including using Bridge.
Thanks.
Welcome!
Unfortunately I am not seeing any difference in grain of gradient in the 32bit mode or in camera raw. Photoshop and camera raw have just been updated so maybe that is the cause as the blue sky shifts differently than what is portrayed in the video or I've screwed something up that is changing the results
Yes I can confirm the new update to photoshop and camera raw drastically change the behaviour of this slider and procedure in the video. It both and change in how they are blended in HDR pro and how the b&W mixer is interacting with the channels
Monitors have normally an 8 bit interface, only a few have 10 bits. What about printers? Can you comment. Thanx.
My Canon printers allow to print in 16 bit. You will see a huge difference in most images if you print in 16 bit verses 8 bit.
Hi Joel, why when you save your files in TIFF they are in sRGB instead of RGB 1998? Top tutorial. Thanks
I'll have to look at that. When I recently updated my Photoshop it might have defaulted back to sRGB. This is my beef with Adobe.
you talked about the nodal point? Do you have a video explaining that....thanks
I do in the Joel Grimes Academy, but if you go to Really Right Stuff, they have a few really good teaching tutorials on the subject.
so gracious of you to provide 'practice' files...at the same time, love how you state this is 'subjective'....thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Amazing! I really learned something- 16 v 8 bit! Question: does changing the bit depth increase the file size? Thanks Joel!
Yes
Yes it does!
Great value! Thank you!!! 😃
really glad you enjoyed!
Thank you so much for sharing this free! So much good information here.
You are so welcome!
Excellent tutorial...thank you for sharing.
You are welcome!
Joel, I really love photography, but you make me love it even more :). Thank you for the great video again.
Glad you enjoy it!
great video Joel, thanks for sharing
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Great! Thank you.
You are welcome!